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Do LUGs Still Matter?
Joe Barr, writing for NewsForge asks, "Do LUGs still matter? Back in the day, LUGs were rowdy, popular, and highly contagious centers for aficionados of Linux. Install fests were a big deal. Members came from all walks of life, united only by a penchant for something new and cool, and a chance to place a bet on the impossible notion of world domination by an operating system hacked together by a ragtag bunch of students on the Internet. It's different today. Linux is now mainstream, it's being spread by slick corporate marketing, and with most distros, installation is a snap. So the question arises, do LUGs still matter?"
I mostly see groups like these still holding together for community ties. If they mattered before they matter now. Corporate backing is no reason for people to still not gather together for what they believe in and what interests them.
Freedom is fragile and must be protected. To sacrifice it, even as a temporary measure, is to betray it.
LUGs are still vital! There is plenty going on at my local lug. Things haven't really changed. There is a lot of knowledge transfer and a lot of fun. We still do install fests, although now it is usually a mix of complete newbies and people with really strange install issues that are indeed a challenge to crack.
In some ways, LUGs are one of the only places for someone new to get training and learn without spending thousands on classes. They also serve as a great place to meet fellow enthusiasts.
There is plenty of activity going on on the bleeding edge as well and this makes for great meeting presentations.
I heard that Linux User Groups were a good place to meet chicks? Is this true?
From TFA:
"I guess my answer is that yes, LUGs do still matter, but not as much as they did in the early days. They are not the primary drivers of Linux adoption that they once were. Improvements in the ease of installation of modern distributions, Linux's widespread adoption, and its acceptance as an enterprise tool have all combined to lessen the need for what LUGs offer. Today's LUG is less a vibrant beacon of a community of users and more of a professional/social club for admins."
Yeah, sounds pretty reasonable to me.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
LUGs are a holdover from the days of the BBS, when communication was slow and information was hard to find. There was a LUG in my town. I think it got taken over by a needy charitable organization and is hosted in a drafty and somewhat smelly clothing drop-off center. I've never been to it. I just downloaded and installed Fedora Core last year and I've been hooked ever since. The internet is the only user's group I'll ever need. So the real question becomes "What's next now that user's groups are dead?" Ans: Slashdot!
I remember my days in a user group. It attracted lots of people because there were always things to learn. Even experts could pick up tidbits of valuable information, and more often than not the novices picked up help from the experts. In that way, everyone became a little more expert. And lemme tell you, there are few things more satisfying than telling people something they don't know, and watching their jaws literally drop.
That "slick corporate marketing" will convince you to buy into a particular software and hardware solution, but buy-in and installation are only the beginning. There's later configuration, installations on top of your existing system, new peripherals, and plus you may just want to do new things with it. The original seller can't afford to hold the hand of every novice that comes along and gets their system. Trust me on this, in that case the user group is a godsend.
And now for the twist: note that at no time did I actually mention Linux. That's because the user group I was talking about dealt with a different platform, one that still values its user group network.
Take the hint: easy to set up and easy to install, and it still supports its user groups. There is power in community.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
People with a common interest will get together. We're doing it right now aren't we. That part of human nature will never change.
Having said the above, the nature of LUGs will change as the technology matures. A successful group will probably have one or two core members who keep it going. Otherwise, the group will die out.
Hot rodders are similar to Linux users in many respects. In the early days, everyone had to be a bit of a mechanic because cars were primitive. It was easy to make improvements on your car for the same reason. As cars became more sophisticated and laws became stricter, most people quit working on their cars and left that to the professionals. You still have hot rodders though. They still get together at the burger joint. There are still hot rod clubs. I think it will be the same with LUGs. Certainly as a proportion of the population of Linux users, the number of Linux geeks will decrease. However, in absolute numbers, there will probably be just as many of us or more.
Yes. But there is a problem. There aren't enough Super Linux Users and too many newbies who really aren't intrested in pushing Linux as far as you can push Linux. I'm in a LUG like that. My LUG members aren't intrested and don't see the need for what I as a Super Linux User do.
Another issue is Linux gaming. This year. I'm hosting a purely Linux LAN war this X-mas Day. No Windows. All Linux. I've done this beforee. But I expect this year to be one of my best.
There are alot more Super Windows Users who can build complex Windows networks (Such as Actiive Directory) than there are Super Linux users to match and thats with technologies such as OpenLDAP, due to intrest, and goals. To make LUGs more effective, more Super Linux users need to be produced so Linux that Linux improves, and the education about Linux improves.
Without LUGs, there would be no LUG Radio!
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
I agree with the article that LUGs mattered in the dark days of Linux, when partitioning the hard drive and setting up lilo were done with your fingers crossed.
Now, with near-automated installs of most distributions, the average user who wants linux just has to pop in the CD and answer some (mostly easy) questions.
The LUGs have been supplanted by forums for users. Why wait until a LUG meeting to ask a question or trouble shoot a problem when you can ask it on your distribution's forums and get a knowledgeable answer in a fairly reasonable time period.
Most distributions have very end user friendly forums. If people on the forums can't help there's always google as a backup.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
... through a LUG gathering some years back. Now I'm a sysadmin in an ISP running Linux. Yap they did matter back then and they actually worked as far as I am concerned. As for now, a little change of LUG policies can make them matter to make what Linux is still not today: an OS WELL KNOWN by regular people.
This is my sig. There are thousands more, but this one is mine.
Maybe something like 6 years ago, I co-founded the Egyptian Linux Users' Group. Me and my 3 co-conspirators had a vision of free software as a social movement, not just as a different kind of software development approach.
6 years on, we have what has got to be one of the most vibrant communities in a LUG anywhere. We teach one another, we help with downloading distros, we do activism, we hold installfests, we go out for coffee, dinner, hold LAN parties where one unnamed individual always beats us into submission at bzflag, and we work to bolster the bottom line of Egyptian beer manufacturers.
Since when was a LUG about helping people install Linux? It's a community Goddamn you. Communities will always be relevant. If there was no community there would be no free software: a LUG is simply the most evident face of this community.
Blearf. Blearf, I say.
Being a n00b it was nice to have a place to go that gave you face time with enthusiasts who were enthusiastic to help and also, from my personal experience, expect to be asked n00b questions. You also get exposure to different views first hand, whereas when just parsing forums you are generally exposed to what you are looking for, at a LUG you may be exposed to something you had never considered and later use. Not to mention I have never been invited to a WUG ...
Also, my local lug is located by a great bar and gives me an excuse to tell my wife .... I mean ... I like going to the LUG, it is fun.
Here is why:
Networking. And I'm not talking about the TCP/IP kind. I'm talking about meeting each other, getting to know other linux professionals and people of the tech community. Instead of overly peppered resumes with mindless certifications, you get to meet people who actually can talk about the technologies, the issues, etc. You should see the number of head-hunters, hiring agencies and etc that come to a LUG meeting with the hopes of meeting real intelligence. (Recently my LUG (NYLUG) and Google threw a big party at a fancy restaurant in Manhattan in an attempt to attract the tech community, but python developers in particular. Google's Alex Martelli was the speaker (you python guys should know him)).
Additionally, networking doesn't just mean the kind that gets consultants hired and what not. I'm talking about building a community. Letting people meet new people and become friends. Every time our LUG has a meeting, you can always see various circle of "LUG-friends" get together and talk amongst themselves. Its brilliant. At a LUG meeting you aren't talking to someone overly concerned about mindless shit like the latest Pop music star, but people who take to the same issues that matter greatly to yourself (DRM, DMCA, kernel stability, PHP security, source compilations, etc). Its quite a treat to be able to sit down and have a beer with someone else who actually knows what a buffer-overflow is.
LUG's are also are great because they can tap in from a pool of talent to get a single effort going. The president of my LUG is also one hell of a salesman. His ability to be a people person is like no other, and so we get great speakers all the time (Ie: Google, XenSource, Novell, Chris DiBona, etc). But our president isn't a super technical guy, so we leave server management to someone else. We also leave mailing list management to another guy, who is incredibly level-headed and thus handles flame-fest situations very well. For an individual to do all of the above would be nearly impossible. A group of people OTOH, can do this very well without sucking up a too much of a single person.
While Linux isn't brand spanking new, it does not mean LUGs are not useful anymore. It means they've adapted, re-focused their energies, and aim for a new direction. Gone are the days where many LUG presentations were introductions about the technology. Today we talk about new technology, but more important what you can do with this technology. (IE: Xen virtualization.)
This January is our LUG's 7th year birthday. And we are strong as we have ever been.
Sunny Dubey
Officer
New York Linux User's Group
Well, in all fairness, most linux geeks are unlikely to have attended such schools.
The Central PA LUG is still going strong. I have only been a member for about 3 years, and it has changed a lot in that time. However, it is still a relevent club. There are more new users then ever before (mostly, I assume, related to the lower barrier for entry and growing popularity). Those users still want help with networking and installation etc. The other reason I believe that our LUG has remained active though is that the guy who runs the show is a die hard. For a LUG to remain strong it takes a leader who really wants to make it a success.
"He was a wise man who invented beer." - Plato
There is a lot of stuff that can be gained and contributed at a LUG. It is a collection of people with a common interest that share knowledge. You can just hang out and listen to the techno babble, or get more involved if you want. The first LUG meeting I went to was like visiting a country where people spoke the same language as I. It's the only place I can say "cat /proc/bus/usb/devices and grep for Vendor" and not get a strange look.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
While I have never been a part of any LUG, I feel compelled to share my opinion.
User groups, regardless of what the primary focus is, are an integral part of our world. Look at popular sports, for example. The social companionship is enhanced exponentially when there's a common primary subject of focus, whether it is an operating system, a particular footbal team (American, British, Martian, etc.), or a certain league of motorsports. The amount of social bonding that takes place when fans of any topic come together is simply amazing, and is beneficial to our species. Additionally, when groups of like-minded individuals come together on a certain topic, the collective knowledge exceeds that of what could be learned in any individual instance.
Now consider for a moment the explosion of the use of Linux. It is becoming the sole server OS on the internet, intranets, and that small 4-node LAN you have running in your house. Linux is free, stable (for the most part - this is not going to be an OS war), highly configurable, and easily administrated from a remote location. Being that it has so much that it can do, there is so much knowledge to be had about it -- more than what a single human can and should know.
By gathering some of your closest affectionados to set up a load-balancing, caching, super-cool-illegal-ninja-moves DNS server, several things happen. Firstly, the social bonding takes place. Secondly, the knowledge of the group as a whole allows for the task to be completed quickly and properly. Thirdly, everyone knows something that you don't: Everyone learns something new from the time spent.
Now, you're probably thinking, "What good is that if you're not doing it for hire?" The answer is simple. By simply living, you need to be ready to take on a new walk of life at a moment's notice, just for your own survival. Certain walks of life have certain benefits. This walk of life that we have all considered taking (if you're reading this, you're in the IT field, considering it, or retired from it) is needed for other walks of life to function. Since it is a rather large dependancy in itself, success and knowledge are rewarded by fairly decent financial reimbursement -- your salary. To be successful and knowledgable, you need hands-on learning, discussion with other knowledgable individuals, and the above mentioned social bonding. In addition to the primary skills you gain from such events, the secondary skills are equally as useful.
Now that I realise I have been babbling for the last 20 minutes (It's early on Christmas. Give me a break.), I'm going to stop there.
In short: Yes, LUG's still matter.
Back then I only had a 56 kbps dial-up connection, and downloading linux wasn't really an option. I visited the linux-egypt website to know from where I can buy linux CDs
And sometimes I just need an egyptian to talk to, explain to him my linux problem and get his feedback
Other times I just feel like talking about the presence and the future of free software in egypt
So I think, my conclusion is, as long as distance and culture matters, lug, (local linux help) will continue to matter.
LUGs may not matter, but, I see most of LUGs turning into something that matters much more:
Free Software User Groups
or FSUGs.
Those groups can promote free software on proprietary platforms (such as firefox and open office on windows), generally as a transitory stage to reach a free platform. Various free platforms are embraced: GNU/Linux, *BSD and why not GNU (that is, with HURD).
Here, the local LUG is very important and they make huge events each year bringing thousands of people to learn about free software, there's no marketing of any company that can replace that.
Pupeno
That's because Oslo is cooler than everything, and it's fundamentally impossible to discuss the rest of the uninteresting, uninspiring world in terms of Oslo.
Oslo's part of Norway. Scandinavia is just by default cool. Score one for Norway (and Oslo)
Oslo is where Opera comes from. I'd have to be using some less awesome browser if it weren't for Oslo. Oslo is damn cold, here I am having to use my air conditioner on Christmas Day.
There are many more reasons that Oslo rules, these are just a few.
Signed,
Uman, who had nothing better to post
Le français vous intéresse?
Over at the Ottawa Canada LUG, (OCLUG), most of the discussion is about the politics of the upcomming election...but not about technology, or Linux, or anything like that. Some people try and make a go of it, but unless it get's an overhaul soon, I will be writing it off. :-(
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Past and gone are the wonderful days of personal computers when computers where indeed personal.
...other LUGs Ive tried to get in contact with - are less than willing to help and waste most of the time by measuring you up-and-down on who you are and what on "earth" makes you "think" that youd even fit in.
Im one of the "oldschool" geeks that grew up with an Atari 2600 and wrote my first assembly code games on a Commodore 64 way back then when an electronics kit where all the buzz and computers where something that banks used.
I was a part of a local computer club in Stavanger in Norway where we met once a week to bring our beloved computers together and exchange code and just marvel at the "cool" computers we had. You could see a range of Commodore 64, Vic 20, Spectrum, ZX-81,BBC and many more there. It was passionate fun - and basically every day of our lives revolved around our home computers.
Not too sure where all that went - but I had an "idea" about LUGs being somewhat the same as "back then"...unfortunately it seems like that no longer holds true (at least not to me). Im a Long time Linux user myself - using Slackware (an derivative self-compiled version of it that is).
But Ive tried several times to get in touch with such groups, I now Live in Denmark in an small town called Odense. I tried to meet with the local LUGs over here and most of them where elitist-snobs to say the very least. It consist of mostly System-administrators and incarnate Linux professionals that seems to be very good friends - but shun any outsiders. If you dont know your way around Bash - then youre frozen outside and no one would even dare to talk to you. Funnily enough - theyre not the only example
Oh-boy - times have sure changed. Maybe its just me that is getting to be an old geezer and stuck in the past, either that or it actually could be why theyre getting "less important"...at least to the "commoners" like me.
Just my 5.14" cents.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Think again before you say something that makes you appear as one of the few doing something good. Maybe the other Lug members are not interested in you and your lack of modesty. People tend to shun that (or at least I do) althoug the subjects you are dealing with may or may not be interesting.
If you really think you have something interesting to say, I think nobody will stop you if you prepare and have a little presentation about a subject of your choice. But keep in mind that you need to supply reason why other people should be interested in your subject, so approach it from a general or newbie point of view. 'because I can' is not a good reason, for the most part because 'I' is the most important word in that sentence and most people are not interested in your 'I'.
In short: stop boasting, start teaching or shut up.
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
Our LUG found it difficult to keep meetings going, but the forums have become a great place for question and answer.
Click here or here.
I set my sister up with a computer running Ubuntu. I visit a couple of times a year...and she has spent most of the year without a functioning printer. I couldn't diagnose it from afar, and only now are things back in order (we came back for Christmas).
If there'd been a local LUG, she'd have had a working printer (and probably have the Wacom Graphire 3 going) a long time ago.
Corporate movement towards Linux is great, but don't forget the home user.
The whole point of Free Software is to distribute the knowledge of how to make a computer work to computer users.
When people disagree about how to use computers, they may split whatever organization they have to do this a different way,
Both sides of a fork win by involving new users in whatever obsessions they share.
It's all a plot, well, a bunch of plots really, to make users, not all, but enough, into developers.
Whether you're speaking of software, news sites, blogs, email lists, or LUGs, with Open Source forks are more often than not good things for Free Software, including the fork between Free Software and Open Source.
Any fork produces new developers, and more ways of doing neat things.
What I don't understand is why there are no Open Office User Groups.
Ed Craig "Who cares what you think?" George W. Bush, 4th of July 2001
I've been an active and sideline member of the Austin Linux community and the ALG group Joe Barr is primarily referring to for many years. I think Austin is somewhat unique, and the slow death of its user group can be attributed to people as much as anything.
;-) Over time the leadership of the group, and its direction became set by the younger, more frequently attending members. The mailing list became a venue for a battle between the young vs the old, the new members vs the founders. Some members split off to form splinter groups, some people got tired of the fighting, and the group dwindled further.
Some issues:
During the early years of the group is was usually hosted at sites that had two rooms. One for organized presentations, and the other for freewheeling conversations and people were able to wander between the two. The site had some form of open net access. The moderator (Stu Green, or others) usually started the conversation going with a 15 minute rant on current events, and elicited questions, inform the group on what people were working on and what they needed to find out. This helped match people together by interested and really jump started the socialization.
Later the group moved to venues that had one room, and on days where a presentation was less than interesting there could be no social aspect until dinner after the meeting (Katz's, Starseeds or some other late night venue.) Also, the new venue's were at City and State owned buildings, and some core members had such strong political views that they refused to attend meetings in those buildings. The meetings also for a time alternated between a North Austin and South Austin location instead of a central one, meaning most people only attended whichever meeting was closest.
The Internet Bubble hit Austin hard in 2001-2002, and many core members were jobless, and could no longer afford to eat out. The dinner group dwindled to just a few, and we found many people were attending meetings just for the dinner socialization.
There were a lot of ongoing ego battles... many of the original founders of the group held strong political opinions but did not frequently attend meetings. They were also typically older, and had some of the grumpiness generally expected of people in their age bracket.
In both computer and social networks there are true benefits in the number of nodes/people. The more people, the more interactions, and the more useful and interesting the group becomes. The Austin Linux group died the death of a thousand small cuts.. the increasingly mainstream use of Linux is only one of those.
I've been using linux for a few years now, and am a sys admin in likewise at a uni. That said, apart from trying to co-found one at the college I went to (didn't really pan out to much while I was there), I'd never been to a LUG.
;-)
Just recently however I started attending the one in my city, to bring my oldest there (7 years old). It's really wonderful, gives us some nice time together, and exposes him to linux and part of linux culture. After the first time (which was an installfest, where some fellow there let him play a bunch of linux games on his box) my son asks about going ahead of time and looks forward to it. If something less than interesting for a seven year old is being discussed, I just bring my lappie with free games on it anyhow to keep him entertained (loves wesnoth). That and the the free food of course
What a ridiculous question. Maybe those who need to believe themselves super geeks may leave but they'll be easily replaced by new users who take joy in learing more about their chosen OS. As president of a MUG, I can say that a good OS attracts passionate users who like to share and learn. Does constant Mac mainstream press kill Mac User Groups? Not hardly. Does ease of use kill Mac user groups? Ain't no easier computer - still got the groups. All computers are complicated to use and user groups are a great resource and a great social opportunity for people to share their passion.
And the idea of Linux being mainstream is just a mite hopeful. It may be mainstream among network administrators and computer science grads reading Slashdot, but I can guarantee you that the general public wouldn't know a Linux box from a linotype machine. And what they do know is probably wrong anyway. Macs get lots of press and misinformation about them is the norm.
I've attended a couple of local LUGs and can testify that their members are just as avid and cultish as Mac users, and just as welcoming and eager to share. As long as Linux remains an underdog users will band together against the Windows world. You may loose a few members who only were proud of Linux because it was so difficult to make work but they are leaving because of some other need than the one to share and learn from each other.
Well, one thing I can confidently state is that LUGs in India are pretty active. I've been personally involved with the New Delhi LUG, and have had chances to see activities in the Bangalore LUG as well. The first one is still a bunch of old school users - people who have been using Linux for a long time, as well as droves of new users who discover Linux everyday - have developed a camaraderie through all the meetings. This extends to more than just discussions and demos - the group has conducted a number of *events* spanning over a day or two with workshops, seminars and talks to make even larger numbers aware of Linux.. and if you do this in a city with more than 30 colleges which offer Computer Science as a major, you've got a serious number of potential LUGgers coming in. Not only the main LUG, but suburban LUGs too have sprung up under the umbrella of the mother LUG, so to speak - which offer localized help to both organizations and home users - an example being the Linux Access Project, which aimed at helping schools adopt Linux. Bangalore on the other hand grew from something described above into a much more formal affair - attended by a large number of people who would come to attend talks and presentations decided over mailing lists, and they too organize one of the largest events in south asia - Linux Bangalore. Group these together with fledgling and established LUGs in half a dozen cities across India, and the growing exposure just can't be discounted. Whats important here is that LUGs today propogate the concept of Open Source, and community based development, offering people a glimpse into projects they might be able to contribute to - and this goes much farther in helping the community, rather than teach a newbie all about Linux and solve teething problems - thats where our IRC channel on Freenode comes in - and I daresay, people in there are able to solve a lot of common problems, or atleast, refer people to channels related to whatever problem they've been facing. IM(NS)HO, LUGs are still important - although not in the same way they were say, 10 years ago. Their functions and focus has changed, but in essence, they are still what they were initially visualized to be - a meeting place for people interested in discussing about (Linux, OSS and ) technology.
If Bill Gates had a dime for every time a Windows box crashed...oh, wait a minute - he already does.
My local LUG had a lot of potential (btw, I deliberately did not say which LUG it is that I am talking about; they wouldn't recognize themselves anyhow), but it became very apparent to me that this LUG was a good guide on how not to run a LUG. Things this LUG did was to:
1. Become a Tax-Free Non-Profit Organization in order to be a Cheapbytes or Linux Central Disk Reseller (heaven forbid they burn their own disks and give some proceeds to linuxiso.org).
2. When given a choice between involving the members to write or document a nice Linux item for the community, or to send their users to pay a small fortune for a professional 'sponsor' to make a program, they send their users over to pay a 'sponsor' to do it for them...after all, why reinvent the wheel? Even if it does teach a user anything? Answer: They think that the more money the 'sponsor' makes, the more the 'sponsor' may throw back their way. From what I've seen, it hasn't worked out that way.
3. Model themselves after the local PC User's group, the group of people who seek out what new gadget or gizmo that can be BOUGHT for the machine, rather than to teach anyone how to get full use out of their machine that they've already got, AND get educated enough to find that they don't need the new gizmos or gadgets since it is already built in.
4. Make fun of other LUGs who actually try to do something to promote Linux. ie-the Kansas City LUG trying to hold a big Linux expo...my local LUG ridiculed them. Personally I salute the Kansas City LUG for holding an event like that (successful or not)...it is much more than my local LUG would ever consider.
--Nah, I get more benefits from my #linuxfriends IRC channel than I do from my local LUG.
I ran an install-fest at Cornell Univ. last semester, and it was a huge success. We distributed something on the order of 300 CDs, and helped out a huge number of folks with one-on-one install/configure walkthroughs, along with various group tutorials and presentations. A big success.
/huge/ amount of pressure of those who have worrisome fears about what this might do to their system.
Why? Because folks who have any sort of trepidation re Linux want personal attention and communication. The Cornell Student LUG filled up with e-mails soon thereafter because people who installed and had questions wanted help from their community, not just from the anonymous faces on linuxquestions.org, etc. We gave everybody several links to sources of information/help, such as linuxquestions.org, google, our LUG, etc., and I think many folks opted for the LUG because of that sense of personal attention and help from the community that got you up-and-running.
So yes, LUGs are good for new-comers, and InstallFests take a
"Linux is now mainstream, it's being spread by slick corporate marketing, and with most distros, installation is a snap."
Mainstream? You guys really need to get out of the Slashdot Universe and look around. Linux is far from mainstream.
And which distros make installation a "snap?" When installing Linux, I still have to TELL it what kind of Keyboard and Mouse I'm using. Go ahead, ask your mom or sister or girlfriend or the star athlete at your school/college what kind of mouse they use. Wait for the blank stare followed by the look of confusion. After counting my mouse buttons (does the scroll wheel count as a button?) I have to exit the installer and enter some arcane partition program that makes me cry each and every time. And even after all that, I still don't have all the software I need to install my programs. I "get" to go online and download 18 "dependancy" packages, all which require their own, separate dependancy packages.
At the rate things are moving with Linux, I doubt I'll see it becoming mainstream in my lifetime, if ever. Yes, it's incredibly stable and powerful, but can your average computer user just sit down and start using it to do their taxes? No. Seriously, everyone jokes about it, but until your parents can easily install and navigate the system, it won't ever be mainstream.
Just out of curiosity, where are you located?
I have never heard of a LUG (or Mac User Group, which is the other OS I use) in my area, although if there was an active one I'd probably join. That begs the question -- where and how do people find out about LUGs in their area, and how many users are muddling along (as I am) on their own, wishing they knew more people in their local area who also used Linux that were willing to help them?
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
That LUG sucks!
Meh.