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Dell Pre-Installing Firefox in UK
seizer writes "Blake Ross, creator of Firefox, has confirmed on his blog that Dell are now shipping Firefox on all desktop and laptop machines in the UK. While rumours had been floating around before this, and UK buyers had been reporting that 1.0.6 came pre-installed, this is the first official confirmation of Dell's decision. Is the US next?"
Definately good news, but if it's not the default browser the impact will likely be limited. Most people will use whatever's the default.
And if the users don't want it (I'm not sure why) they could uninstall it unlike IE
--
Get a free Playstation 3 here!
Anyone seen the version? is it with a custom dell skin? just currious.
If Dell is going to buck Microsoft and install Firefox, perhaps the day is coming when they will openly and consistently offer Linux on their desktop machines as an alternative to Windows. But we will see. Something tells me MS isn't going to take this lying down.
Or at the very least 1.0.7 which has been the latest 1.0.x version out for a while now.
Free MacMini
Inside the corporate offices of Microsoft, an angel dies.
You used "Microsoft" and "angel" in the same sentence without the "of Darkness" phrase. You should know better.
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
-Is it installed like the rest of their nagware? (e.g. buried in the menus)
-Is it the default browser?
-Will it remain the default browser?
-Is there an icon on the desktop? (still will probably not switch the trained to click the "e" people.)
In one way it's very good news.
I don't think it changes much though once IE7 is available. The IE7 hype for a feature set that Mozilla browsers already have will be deafening.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
... is the day when software bundles is a Good Thing!
(err, right?)
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
The UK is the second greatest market for both Slashdot and Dell, so reporting this only makes sense.
My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)
perhaps the day is coming when they will openly and consistently offer Linux on their desktop machines
Well, in case Dell is listening, I am one customer for a Dell laptop with Linux pre-installed (the model that has nVidia graphics, as ATI is totally hopeless with OpenGL).
I always install my own Linux systems on desktops, but laptops are somewhat different to desktops in that they often have custom features that aren't covered well (or at all) by standard Linux distros.
A Dell Linux-based laptop with all its hardware features supported would be a very welcome product.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
This is just not true.
You can order a Dell without an OS. At least in the US.
If Dell does this all over the world it will have a large impact on IE browser numbers. This is the single largest reason IE/Windows has the largest install base. Think how good Firefox needed to be to get people to take the time and download, install and use over IE. Now it is there by default? Man that will be powerful.
Perhaps the new PC could prmopt the user at first login to choose clients for the various protocols. Thunderbird could be available as an alternative to Outlook Express, and some alternatives to the commercial chat programs could also be available. I like that idea.
This sig, aah-ah, is comin' like a ghost-sig...
you wouldnt happen to have any instructions on how to go about, removing explorer, msie, etc. straight from the windows kernel, would you? because, it is totally integrated into windows. if you remove ie, you remove explorer, and your windows os, is totally useless. thats half of the problem there. ...the only way to go about what you're saying you did with your superhuman geekboy strength and "l33tn3ss" is by using a shell replacement, which most people cannot tolerate, or even use functionally. props to you, for trying to be cool though! i'd do my research next time.
I, for one, am outraged. Could you imagine if Microsoft did the same thing and had Internet Explorer installed on every new computer?
Oh wait...
Martini Glasses
Now if we could just get them to preinstall OpenOffice.org, offer Linux as a real alternative OS, and (god forbid) even consider offering AMD based systems then we would really be making progress...
For those wondering why this particular version, it is the latest to support FULL msi options http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=1380 33 as listed on the official mozillazine forums.
:)
However if the people at DELL had of just gone one more click to the guys full site, they would see the latest MSIs built ready for pre-install or corp rollout needs http://www.frontmotion.com/Firefox/.
Big thanks to "DraconPern" for doing this, OEMer i been working at has been rolling this onto default install for around 14 months now, not had one gripe about bloatware, and quite a few thankyous from people for saveing them the effort
...
Inside the corporate offices of Microsoft, a chair is thrown.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
You can order a Dell without an OS. At least in the US.
You can, but it costs more than the same computer with Windows.
I set up a bunch of new Dell laptops and set Firefox to be the default browser.
Much to my chagrin, McAfee (which is pre-installed) has a self-update is almost entirely ActiveX/javascript dependent. It loads about 10 pages in succession, which is rather strange. Even though it "fell down went boom" about 80% of the time in IE because McAfee's servers were continuously overloaded or down (thus resulting IE error pages which you can't continue from- you have to hit 'update' again and wait another 5-10 minutes.)
The incompetence in the decision to use complex ActiveX/javascript bouncing off 10 different pages and a couple webservers...just to check for effing definition updates...is astounding. Do they really not have anyone capable of writing a decent simple Windows 2k/XP program?
Please help metamoderate.
They don't remove IE, because you can't. IE is actually a part of Windows.
..back in the day, computers came with Netscape and MSIE installed. You'd see infomercials saying, "This computer comes with the two leading internet browsers. Netscape and Internet Explorer, so that you can choose which you'd like to use". It will just start bringing more competition to the table for MSIE. I feel bad because I remember in those days recommending that people uninstall Netscape and use IE.
Sig: I stole this sig.
When I sell a machine, I install the latest version of Windows, firefox, WinAMP, Norton AV, and OO.o (unless they "upgrade" to MS Office) and set firefox & WinAMP as defaults. I also offer a "bonus" CD with competing products such as Opera, RealPlayer, MusicMatch, and iTunes, and clear, conside directions on how a user would uninstall the software on the computer and replace it with what's on the CD. I also make sure the latest patches, updates, drivers, and virus definitions are installed.
Of course, I also sell linux boxes priced at the cost of Windows and Norton less than the Windows boxes. For those I just deliver the machine completely clean.
Free MacMini
Is Dell shipping security risks now?
They've been shipping Windows for years, haven't they?
Rob
They've got the same system with XP media center for $20 less.. Tell me again how there's no "Microsoft tax". http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?CS=19&kc=19&oc=DE510SAP
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
What is so good about Firefox?
Extensions.
I tried Opera 8.5 for about a week, and while versus Firefox without extensions there would be no contest, there were just too many things I could not acheive in Opera, that Firefox extensions provide. Opera was fast and stable though.
It's a unfortunate that extensions are also a bit of a weak point for Firefox. It would be nice if the APIs for extensions were made robust enough that it was harder for extensions to break the browser, and I still haven't had a problem free browser upgrade without doing a clean reinstall.
Oh no... it's the future.
OS/2 Warp was pre-installed on the machines from large retailers (typically Escom or Vobis). This was almost one year before Windows 95 was released. We all know how that story ended.
OK, the configuration of OS/2 on those machines (often 486DX2 with 4MB of RAM) was particularly crappy, sharing a FAT partition with DOS and Windows 3.1, but all I'm saying is that pre-installation doesn't imply mass adoption yet.
If so, I don't think it'll make much difference to the number of firefox users, as most large firms I know, who buy from Dell, have IE only web sites and intranets. It will however boost the statistics for Firefox, viz. number of installations.
First Off, I love FireFox and use it every day, it's default on every computer I use except this one (damn you work!).
/.) proves what everyone says, Dell puts too much crap on their boxes. Well, now thier putting another browser there, albeit a better one. It's technically another thing we (consumers) don't need.
Anyway, to play Devils Advocate, does everyone see that this should be considered more bloatware from Dell? I mean, the HardOCP review of Dells gaming rig (last week on
I am probably going to get flamed for this post, but it has to be said. They put lots of programs that aren't needed on their computers and people bitch. Well, now thier putting another browser on there (again, I know its a better one) and everyone is happy.
I know it's a step in the right direction in general, but am I the only one who sees the majority of the previous posts as somewhat hypocritical?
If I want Windows (which I might), I'll purchase a Genuine Windows CD; uh, that is, when they get the x_64 version working. It's in Microsoft Beta - that is, what the rest of us would call Alpha. SuSE 10.0 did a better job of recognizing my hardware right "out of the box", while the XP x_64 not only missed two cards, but refused to install the vendor-supplied (32-bit) drivers for the cards.
So, just for my sins, I now have an AMD x_64 machine running a 64-bit aware OS with application code compiled to take advantage of x_64 architecture. This begs the question - why does <insert hardware vendor name> trundle a 32-bit OS with 64-bit hardware?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Actually, you can remove IE but it is not simple and windows is left lacking a bunch of features.
What if Tetris was invented by Nazis?
- most of firefox features were in Opera first and
- Opera has features that will take years to be implemented in firefox and
- Opera's mail client was gmail like before gmail even existed and
- Opera is faster and has a smaller memory footprint than firefox and
- Opera is beautifully designed and integrated instead of being a patchwork frankenbrowser and
- Opera's download is smaller
slashdoters will still not love it. Why? Because Opera is not open source. Therefore, although most people won't ever modify Firefox's code, it will forever remain everyone's sweetheart.Firefox is not just a browser, it is a symbol of rebelion against the system. We should rename it the Ché-wser and make t shirts!
Cheers,
Adolfo
Opera user since forever.
But is it wise to slap the hand that feeds you?
We'll find out if Microsoft tries anything. Dell sells a huge volume of servers and other computers to businesses, and if they really threw their hat in the ring in regards to Linux (or even Open Office!) it could actually make a dent in Microsoft.
There used to be a lot more players in the market in regards to windows box purchases but Dell is really a leader in the market now, and tough for Microsoft to really influence as much anymore.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
are they really losing anything
They are loosing 'mindshare'. People are actually using something that MS is not the source of.It may or may not last, but is an encouraging step...
I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
Not suprising they put 1.06 on the machines, considering they still put Adobe Acrobat Reader 6 on their computers.
Dell is a company, and as such, is a SINGULAR NOUN. Usage rules dictate that singular nouns are incompatible with plural verbs. Would you say "My mom are going to the store?" Of course not. Why, then, would you say "Dell are now shipping" ?
Learn some fucking English, people.
Learn to accept different regional usages. Where I come from, saying 'Dell are' is standard usage: 'Dell' is a collective noun and can be treated as a plural.
If your comment title says 'Re: Foo', I'm not likely to read it.
Ask your average person what browser they use, and most likely your response will be "I don't know" or "I don't care" and I would be willing to bet it would be more than half of internet users. But you are right that they will be acheiving subliminal mindshare to the non-savvy users, but it will definately go un-noticed by them.
Here's an example. The last 4 computers I have fixed, I completely wiped IE out and installed Firefox for them. Saving me headaches in the long run. When a month or two down the line I ask them how their system is running and how they like the new browser I get, "Everything is running good, new what?" Completely clueless Because I made the Firefox icon set to be the IE "e" icon for familiarity. And it was 4 out of 4, so my percentage above could be off by alot, given into account for the icon change.
-- Brought to you by Carl's JR
Yes, you can say by shipping it with Windows they already are shipping it with security risks. But computer manufacturers will ship their computers with what the majority of the users want. The majority of users want Windows, so they get what they want.
The majority of users do not care what browser they use (see: IE's 84% market share.) In this case, Dell is trying to promote a new browser. They are not including this browser because a majority of their customers have demanded it (although I'm sure there are a certain percentage that have), but because they believe it will make their customers computers safer and more secure.
With that being said, the parents comment is valid because version 1.0.7 was a purely security and stability release to fix problems in 1.0.6. Such security and stability changes include:
Using all the mentioned data, Dell is shipping security risks by packaging their computers with 1.0.6. Although I applaud them for trying to spread the Firefox love, they probably should have done their homework first.
-Mike
Sources:
Firefox 1.0.7 Release Notes
Firefox doubles market share as IE slips
I'm sure someone will correct me if this is not the case, but I believe in the Queen's English (as opposed to American English), organizations are often represented in the plural because they are a group of people. You will read a US headline that says "Manchester United is likely to sell to Glazer", but in the UK, it can be "Manchester United are likely to sell to Glazer". Check out this site. Given the English source for the story, this makes sense.
It's quite funny. Your type seem to cry "anti-competitive practice!" and "monopoly!" when Microsoft chooses to include a product of great quality in their operating system suite, however, look at you now. "I doubt they remove IE on the system". Heh. It's alright when theoretical anti-competitive practice favours Firefox, but not Internet Explorer?
That's because Firefox isn't leveraging an existing monopoly in one area to gain ground for another (usually inferior) product. That's anti-competitive behavior. For example, if Firefox firmly controlled 95% of the browser market, and told OEMs "We won't allow you to install our product if you install another browser, and unless you bundle Thunderbird with it", that would be anti-competitive monopolistic behavior. If the OEM simply decides not to include what they consider to be inferior but competing products of their own accord, that's the free market in action.
If MS simply bundled apps with Windows and OEMs left the other products out, I would be quite happy with that. I'm glad they've finally decided to give anti-virus another go for a number of reasons. It's when they tell OEMs, "If you want Windows, you can't install X" that they really need to be backhanded.
Shouldn't they ship it with the latest version at least
If Dell gives updated versions of Firefox with their online updates (Dell does have its own online updates, doesn't it?) there should be no problems. The fact that Firefox is already installed is signficant because when the average Joe hears someone talk about how great Firefox is, he is more likely to use it if it is already installed. And if Dell takes care of periodic updates, there should be no problems keeping the average Joe happy with it.
One minor point, but it bears repeating: as long as the most common plugins are taken care of without user interaction, the user will probably be happy with the Firefox application. If the user gets a new install of Firefox and the most common plugins have not been configured, he or she is likely to use IE. Hopefully Dell takes care of this. This is a make or break issue with end-user software acceptability.
Suddenly, the hairy finger of a familiar monkey tapped me on the shoulder. It was time.--G. T.
Yep. Much to my surprise, my dad's new Inspiron 1300 came with Firefox on the desktop
Default home page was google uk
bookmarks were dell and a coupla other weird OEM ones.
http://milkshake.dexy.org
A good alternative might be for Dell or (more likely) a third party (for profit or otherwise) to release 'brand specific' Linux distro installation ISOs. Rather than running a standard install script, you download the ISO for your particular model of new big-brand machine and the installer simply writes a disk image onto the hard drive which already has all the appropriate drivers and config settings for the standard hardware. The only question is whether it's worth the effort when most installers are pretty good at figuring it out for themselves now anyway.
Back in the 80's, I was pushing MS on anything that was not IBM. Just about every geek, except for the CIS types, was fighting against IBM. Now, the CIS types push MS, and fight IBM.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Sir,
:|
I am not normally moved to put pen to paper these days, but I feel I ought to make an exception for your folly. I shall keep it simple, for it is clear that you are of a reactionary bent and I fear that a lengthy response might be a little too much for your poor little brain, triggering what I believe is termed a "buffer overflow".
I like to count myself amongst those of a gramatically Naziist persuasion, but I am always mindful of one golden rule - the central tenet of pointing out the mistakes of others, as it were - make damn well sure you are right before jumping into the fire. Failure to do so will result inevitably in a demonstration of your limited intellect to all and sundry, as is the case here.
I can only note in closing that it is a pity that you lack even the self-belief to attach a name to your comments - the anonymous grammar Nazi is perhaps held lower in the collective self-esteem than are the goatse and BSD trolls.
Yours faithfully
iqu
I have just recieved my new pc from dell, and yes, firefox is pre-installed as the default browser, and is nice and prominent as a shortcut on the desktop and right at the top of the start bar under Internet. And no, it doesnt have a special dell skin, but the home page is to Dell's EULA. IE is also still installed of course and still has its icon on the desktop which will make people that are used to clicking on the 'e' continue their bad habit (yes i am a firefox supporter).
I just hopes this gives the browsers support a boost.
Nufu Game Making Team Nufu Networks
Microsoft's income based on IE is negligible if not negative. It costs them absolutely nothing for Dell to preinstall Firefox; the only cost is altering the Windows Update site to allow for both browsers--which they're doing anyway.
Eventually, MS might reach a deal with the Mozilla Foundation to bundle Firefox with Windows, saving them the expense of maintaining IE. Then everyone wins--the users get a better browser and a more secure OS; Microsoft's reputation improves all around; Firefox spreads further; and website designers get redesign their sites to support standards and nix ActiveX controls.
Where's the problem?
Opera went free and ad-free a couple of months back with version 8.5. There was a big whoopety-doo about it at the time. Those screenshots are out of date, as most screenshots posted on the Internet always seem to be. Not saying you should use Opera, just get your facts straight. For me it was the best browser a few years ago but now nothing can really hold a candle to Firefox plus a few essential extensions:
Adblock + Filterset.G from Pierceive.com
FlashGot
NoScript
PDF Download
Tabbrowser Extensions by Shimoda Hiroshi (not the Tabbrowser Preferences available from the "official" extensions site which is a pale imitation, you'll have to Google for it using the author's name). This by itself is the single best extension for Firefox as far as I am concerned. Long live automatic colored tab groups.
Opera is nice but there is no way it can keep up with the simple flexibility of Firefox these days.
You make a mistake in insisting that language be logical. It isn't: usage morphs over time, and once-ungrammatical constructions become normal. Take, for example, the difference between 'I feel good' and 'I feel well.'
Would you say, "Microsoft are a company" or, "Microsoft is a company"?
I'd tend to say 'Microsoft is a company' in order to put the two sides into agreement. However, I'd also say 'Microsoft have been fined by the EU.' It's a matter of feeling and nuance, really.
Now it's your turn to point out some equally nonsensical language construct that is only used by us 'mericans.
Here's one where Americans often use a plural noun as if it were singular:
'That's a savings of $5!'
It sounds odd to my ears, but it's obviously very common in US usage.
If your comment title says 'Re: Foo', I'm not likely to read it.