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Fujifilm Blu-ray & HD DVD Media Mid 2006

Michael writes to tell us TheTechLounge is reporting that Fuji Film has announced the release of Blu-Ray and HD DVD media by mid 2006. From the article: "Consumers are driving demand for interactive gaming and entertainment applications that require enormous storage capacity," noted Steve Solomon, Senior Vice President and General Manager, Recording Media Division, Fuji Photo Film U.S.A. "Fujifilm coating technology will ensure the precision and quality of signal strength in these new media formats. The success of new recording technologies depends on the availability of affordable, reliable media and our scientists are already working to perfect next-generation storage solutions, long before they hit the market."

38 of 110 comments (clear)

  1. Cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'll pick up a few when I go out for my copy of Duke Nuken Forever in my rocket car.

  2. Consumers Driving Demand? by TooMuchEspressoGuy · · Score: 2, Funny
    I'm sure they're *also* demanding the enormous hardware upgrade costs that will inevitably come with a new media standard.

    /sarcasm

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    1. Re:Consumers Driving Demand? by Kjella · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm sure they're *also* demanding the enormous hardware upgrade costs that will inevitably come with a new media standard. /sarcasm

      2,5 years ago I bought a DVD burner for 2200,- NOK
      Now I bought a much better one for 400,- NOK

      Some of us are willing to pay. Yes, we're quite probably insane. I expect to get a Blu-Ray burner too before most. My 1920x1200 LCD screen doesn't have HDCP though, so well... if they want my money, it's not hard to get. I'm sure there will be other options if they aren't cooperative.

      --
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    2. Re:Consumers Driving Demand? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      2.5 years ago, I bought a dvd burner for $85 CDN

      last week, I bought a DVD burner for $60 CDN

      I think you got screwed.

  3. Cool MEDIA!! by TheDoctorWho · · Score: 2, Funny

    Where's my player/recorder/for $1000+ Alex?

    1. Re:Cool MEDIA!! by thaerin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Which came first, the media or the hardware? I know they're wanting to get in on the bandwagon and let customers know that there'll be media for the hardware that should be out near or before the same period. Why can't they announce that they'll have some 16X DVD+/-R media sometime soon for the drive that I bought two months ago?

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  4. Good thing by JonN · · Score: 4, Informative
    To be honest, even though I have heard a lot of complaining and what not about the new DVD technology, I feel there is one part in TFA that shows that this is a necessary step, regardless of hardware upgrade costs and whatever else:

    With mainstream adoption of high definition (HD) content, television sets and recording devices, consumers and retailers will need new storage technologies to handle ever-expanding digitized files. For example, a two-hour program in HD creates a digital file roughly 15-25 Gigabytes in size, or the equivalent of more than 13 hours of standard-definition TV.

    I got a HDTV for the purpose of watching high definition television. True I can get HDTV cable, satellite, etc. however if I want to watch my favorite documentary, I would prefer it HD then standard, same goes for all the other movies I love to watch.

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    1. Re:Good thing by Artie+Dent · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only reason that I would be hesitant to buy some of this new technology is the competing features right now. It would be great to have the highest format available, but if the new players aren't mutually compatible (which really shouldn't be that hard to do) than one is likely to get stuck with the digital Betamax tapes. If there's any new technology that supports both formats, this would be extremely valuable and consumers wouldn't end up getting stiffed in the end. A dual-reading HD DVD reader/writer would sell like hotcakes methinks.

    2. Re:Good thing by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

      For example, a two-hour program in HD creates a digital file roughly 15-25 Gigabytes in size,

      They are lying through exaggeration. When most people talk about HD, they are referring to the ATSC standard which is MPEG2 at roughly 8.5GB/hour, tops - and is often null-padded to maintain a constant-bitrate, making the effective bitrate substsantially less than 8.5GB/hour. So a full 2 hour program is 17GB.

      When you look at the newer HD formats like Europe is going with, ones that implement MPEG4 or even some of the funky things that Microsoft has already released (Terminator2, bunch of IMAX, and some other hollywood/foreign movies in Europe) then it is relatively easy to get 2 hours of "HD content" on a regular single-layer DVD.

      So, if MPEG4 were used to record to permanent storage, regular recordable DVD's would be sufficient.

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    3. Re:Good thing by MrBandersnatch · · Score: 3, Informative

      Indeed, I was making just the same point (less eliquently) earlier today.

      In fact, arnt they using H.264 for blu-ray? Id be interested to know how large a file would be for an hours HD content (on average). Roughly 2 GB would be my guess....I may have to actually try it :)

    4. Re:Good thing by Ironsides · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As (always) size depends on bitrate. H.264 is supposed to be able to encode at 1/4 the bit rate for equivalent quality. This is theoretical. It depends a lot on the encoder. Also, for some scenes you want higher bitrate. I have heard that HD DVDs (refering to HD, not the standard) might be up to a 40Mbps or more, even though broadcast HDTV is limited to 20Mbps (19.4 in reality, but I'm rounding). BTW, I have not yet heard of an h.264 encoder that will use the full capabilities of the codec yet and 20Mbps is the absolute minimum you need for HD, you really need more.

      So, given that, for HD equivalent, we are talking 5 to 10 Mbps for h.264 for HDTV. 10 Mbps = 4.5GB/hour. So a 2 hour movie in h.264 might fit on a standard DVD, but you wouldn't have room for anything but the video track. You still need to get audio on there which is another Gig (assuming you only have one). Extras and everything else will still need to be on a second disk.

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    5. Re:Good thing by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

      They are lying through exaggeration. When most people talk about HD, they are referring to the ATSC standard which is MPEG2 at roughly 8.5GB/hour, tops - and is often null-padded to maintain a constant-bitrate, making the effective bitrate substsantially less than 8.5GB/hour. So a full 2 hour program is 17GB.

      When you look at the newer HD formats like Europe is going with, ones that implement MPEG4 or even some of the funky things that Microsoft has already released (Terminator2, bunch of IMAX, and some other hollywood/foreign movies in Europe) then it is relatively easy to get 2 hours of "HD content" on a regular single-layer DVD.


      While you are correct, the ATSC standard is also quite heavily compressed compared to current DVDs. Notice that 1920x1080 = 6x 720x480. 54GB Blu-Ray = 6x 9GB DVD. If we are going for MPEG4 in Europe, I missed it completely. TV broadcasts in my country are none OTA, none cable, I think one pan-european on satellite. The first people see of HDTV will probably be the PS3. I don't think you can tell the difference between Blu-Ray and a 9GB WMV on a 1280x720 or 1368x768 TV though, and that's what 99% of the marketed HDTVs have. On the other hand, for example Terminator 2 was released 2,5 years ago and Microsoft has completely failed to bring HDTV movies to the mass market.

      Right now I don't think it's about the technology be it HD-DVD, Blu-Ray or WMV DVDs, it is about getting a solid player base deployed. Xbox 360 doesn't have the market share nor HD-DVD, Intel VIIV doesn't have enough consumer appeal, and where the fuck are the WMV DVDs, except a few "proof-of-concepts"? It all depends how long the PS3 will drag out though, they don't want to say anything at CES meaning it's quite a while off. All in all it seems to me they've all dropped the ball.

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  5. I for one.. by doormat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I, for one, welcome our new DRM overlords.

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    If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
  6. Good god by grasshoppa · · Score: 4, Funny

    That "article" is a press release. Written by Fugifilm, or someone that thinks very very highly of them.

    I mean, it's nice to know that they predict mid 2006 for the arrival of the media, but that's really the only nugget of news in both the article and /. summary.

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    1. Re:Good god by underpar · · Score: 4, Funny

      Only through leading chemical knowledge and manufacturing expertise can a company produce this precise a product with durability and performance, at a competitive cost.

      That's not marketing speak! That's honest journalism.

    2. Re:Good god by game+kid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I take it more that mid-2006 will be more the arrival of the HD/BR media blitz than actual goods. I expect Spring (or even that holy, un-commercialized *ahem* day of Easter) to be a season where the media companies persuade people on TV (watch for changes in the Nightly News and TRL commercials!) that their formats, while restrictive to consumers (they won't say that out loud obviously) will be necessary for living.

      I expect something like "Unlike VHS and DVD, you'll be able to see the pimples on your younger brother while he does jump shots. See the threads on your daughter's bridal gown. See the implant scars on your favorite celebrity on the other side of the beach!" on commercials by then.

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  7. WHA? by LividBlivet · · Score: 5, Funny

    "or 8,000 times more data than a human brain retains in a lifetime." Since when did the human brain retain 125GB of data? Anyone know where this comes from or did they just pull it out of their ass?

    1. Re:WHA? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative
      They just pulled it out of their ass. It looks a lot like the brain has a hologrammatic information storage system based on interference patterns between quantum fluctuations stored in calcium dendrites which are attached to neurons. As such, it is capable of storing representations of basically infinite amounts of information, much as a hologram does - if you remove part of a hologram, then the whole of the image is preserved, but the entire thing loses quality. If you remove part of the human brain, then the whole of memory is preserved, but it is also degraded (to some degree) as a whole.

      The 125 GB thing is as purely bullshit as the 30 Hz vision thing (it's a guideline, not a rule, and vision has nothing to do with scanning rates unless you're a computer) and should be disregarded completely. No one has any fucking idea what the upper limit on human information storage is.

      --
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    2. Re:WHA? by JonN · · Score: 3, Insightful
      http://www.sizes.com/people/brain.htm
      http://www.geocities.com/rnseitz/The_Great_Gray_Ra velled_Knot.htm

      "Robert Birge (Syracuse University) who studies the storage of data in proteins, estimated in 1996 that the memory capacity of the brain was between one and ten terabytes, with a most likely value of 3 terabytes. Such estimates are generally based on counting neurons and assuming each neuron holds 1 bit. Bear in mind that the brain has better algorithms for compressing certain types of information than computers do."

      "The human brain contains about 50 billion to 200 billion neurons (nobody knows how many for sure), each of which interfaces with 1,000 to 100,000 other neurons through 100 trillion (10 14) to 10 quadrillion (10 16) synaptic junctions. Each synapse possesses a variable firing threshold which is reduced as the neuron is repeatedly activated. If we assume that the firing threshold at each synapse can assume 256 distinguishable levels, and if we suppose that there are 20,000 shared synapses per neuron (10,000 per neuron), then the total information storage capacity of the synapses in the cortex would be of the order of 500 to 1,000 terabytes. (Of course, if the brain's storage of information takes place at a molecular level, then I would be afraid to hazard a guess regarding how many bytes can be stored in the brain. One estimate has placed it at about 3.6 X 10 19 bytes.)"

      Both from Google Answers

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    3. Re:WHA? by Lugae · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe it's stored in .DOC format.

    4. Re:WHA? by Kijori · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The question though isn't the maximum amount the brain can hold, but how much it can hold in a lifetime. Surely the number they quote could be an estimate of the amount the brain takes in in a lifetime, which you could estimate very roughly by recording all of someone's sensory inputs in a day and finding the size of the part they can recall, then extrapolating.
      I'm not saying that 125GB is by any stretch of the imagination accurate, but I don't think it's meant to reflect a maximum capacity.

    5. Re:WHA? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's also a bunch of crap from that standpoint, because no part of the brain or body is digital, except maybe the fingers and toes, ha-ha. Seriously though folks, we have no digital inputs. You can't measure our information process in bits or anything based on bits. It doesn't work. We're not based on powers of two, or powers of ten, we're based on analog values.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:WHA? by Shawn+Parr · · Score: 3, Informative
      which is how we came up with the so-called CD-quality audio of 16 bit amplitude at 44 KHz
      Actually 44.1 was choosen as it was originally supposed to be 48KHz, but at that sampling rate with the size of the disc decided upon there was not enough space for the then president of Sony's favorite recording of Beethovin's 9th Symphony to fit on a single disc.

      Sony engineers moved to 44.1KHz to make their president happy. It was as high resolution as they could get with the amount of time they needed. There were also battles to keep it at 16 bits as numerous entities wanted to use 14 bits. Thank goodness they didn't do that as that difference would be much more noticeable to the average listener than dropping from 48k to 44.1.

  8. What Would Bob Metcalfe Say? by DysenteryInTheRanks · · Score: 5, Funny
    I was at Best Buy and am pretty sure I overheard Bob Metcalfe going off to one of the sales staff about how much _both_ nex-gen DVD formats suck, since neither can handle the forthcoming Video Internet. He suggested that newer DVD formats be developed to take hold in the next few years.

    So I'd, you know, save my money for now. (You'll probably need it for a new operating system anyway, based on some other stuff he was saying.)

    1. Re:What Would Bob Metcalfe Say? by chris_eineke · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ladies and Gentlemen,

      Its gots us a New Meme.

      Sincerely,
          the Slashdot Hive Mind

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  9. How about... by grub · · Score: 5, Interesting


    ...giving us reasonably priced dual-layer DVD-R first?

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:How about... by slavemowgli · · Score: 2, Informative

      Once double-layer DVD-Rs won't be the "best" (i.e., biggest) media anymore, they'll drop in price pretty quickly.

      --
      quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
  10. Fuji and the Brain by digitaldc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "A single terabyte of holographic disc storage is roughly the equivalent of 16 days of continuously running DVD movies, or 8,000 times more data than a human brain retains in a lifetime."

    It's funny that the same human brain that created this breakthrough can't match its capacity, but it is still smart enough to create a device that can.

    --
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    1. Re:Fuji and the Brain by IAmTheDave · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It's funny that the same human brain that created this breakthrough can't match its capacity, but it is still smart enough to create a device that can.

      This is the entire human/machine paradox wrapped up into one sentence. We posess the innovative genius to eventually create machines which are for all intents and purposes, smarter than we are. Even though these machines are smarter, will they ever match human ingenuity? Are we as a race ready to accept man-made devices that become smarter than the man who created them?

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  11. No we aren't by squoozer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "Consumers are driving demand for interactive gaming and entertainment applications that require enormous storage capacity,"

    Eh? What is this guy going on about? The number of pieces of media, excluding films, that come in DVD format is tiny. I admit that I haven't bought many games recently but I don't own a single one in DVD format and I don't remember seeing any that did. As for music - well enough said. So I ask you: what are there entertainment applications (not it's plural) that require massive storage?

    The other thing I have a problem with is the way they bang on about perfecting the media before it hits the market. Isn't that what's supposed to happen anyway? Perhaps we have all just become used to things not working for the first couple of releases.

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  12. HVD due Q3 2006... by MrBandersnatch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    According to an article on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatil e_Disc) a 300GB HVD disk is due Q3 2006 and an 800GB disk in 2007. If the cost of HVD manages to reach a similar price point to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD then both these media are going to end up dead in the water.....

    1. Re:HVD due Q3 2006... by superpulpsicle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The original holographic storage was supposed to be in the form of a cube. After the 300GB HVD "disk" we are just scratching the surface of what's to come.

  13. first videos to be released on Blu-ray by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6296434.htm l

    Rings, Harry and Kong to go high-def
    As studios dish slate news at Consumer Electronics Show
    By Scott Hettrick 1/3/2006

    JAN. 4 | The Mission: Impossible and Lord of the Rings trilogies as well as Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and Peter Jacksons King Kong all will be released on high-definition digital discs this year.

    At the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this week, almost every studio is expected to announce the first slate of high-def digital disc titles coming to market in 2006. More than 75 new and old movies and TV shows are expected with the introduction of the first DVD player, with dozens and maybe hundreds more by the end of the year.

    Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, the studio with the most at stake in its Blu-ray Disc format, is being the most aggressive with plans to introduce the upcoming theatrical release Underworld Evolution day-and-date with the DVD in late spring/early summer. The studio will have 20 Sony and MGM titles including XXX and Robocop ready to go even earlier, when players are expected to be released as early as March.

    Sony also will release four catalog titles each month beginning this summer, every new theatrical release day-and-date on DVD and Blu-ray Disc and the first high-def version of a TV series to be announced so far from a major studio, Stargate: Atlantis.

    Additionally, Sony is going out on a limb and committing to the debut of two titles--Bridge on the River Kwai and Black Hawk Down--using the 50GB dual-layer Blu-ray Disc, which has been running behind development time from the standard 25GB single-layer disc.

    The studio also is announcing plans Wednesday for summer titles featuring advanced interactive gaming using the BD Java software, which has sparked some dissension from Hewlett-Packard within the Blu-ray Disc camp. SPHE president Ben Feingold said the process is too far along now to turn back and not use BD Java.

    As for the 50GB dual-layer disc, Feingold said both movies have long running times as well as hours of bonus features that the studio has produced but been unable to release on DVD because they take up too much space.

    Sony also will take advantage of the enormous additional capacity to use uncompressed audio on some of its Blu-ray Disc titles, including two Sony/MGM titles in the first wave--The Fifth Element and The Last Waltz. Sony execs say that even movie theaters do not offer uncompressed digital audio.

    Feingold said he expects to ship 50,000 to 100,000 units of each of the first titles, as compared to the 60,000 or so units for each of the first five movies shipped for PSP.

    Other Blu-ray Disc backers, 20th Century Fox, Lionsgate and Paramount, announced their lineup of titles as well. Disney will announce its titles and other plans at a Blu-ray Disc media event at CES on Thursday evening.

    20th Century Fox Home Entertainment president Mike Dunn said the studio will have five titles, including Fantastic Four and Ice Age, in stores two weeks prior to the release of the first Blu-ray Disc player by any manufacturer. Fox will release 20 titles by summer, also debuting most new theatrical titles day-and-date on DVD and Blu-ray.

    Each title will have at least one feature unique to the new format and will include 10% to 20% of the bonus features from previously released or new DVDs and 80% new bonus elements, such as advanced branching and menus and including added value programming accessed through connections to other devices such as the Internet.

    Fox also is preparing two sci-fi titles to be announced later that will take advantage of the extra capacity of the 50GB dual-layer disc.

    We have material that we set aside a long time ago for these, Dunn said. Weve been working up to this and cataloging content for two years.

    Lionsgate will release its traditional new-format driver Terminator 2 among its fir

  14. See ya in '08 by RyoShin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Perhaps I'm one of the few that prefer riding the middle of the wave of technology, or the fact that I'm relatively non-wealthy prohibits me from buying the latest and greatest, but I'm going to wait a while for this to work itself out.

    Balancing between DVD+ and DVD- is a pain enough as it is; having worked at both Best Buy and Wal-mart (in Electronics) for a short amount of time, the most asked question about writable media is "What's the difference between + and -?" followed by "Which one should I get?". It helps that most DVD burners are dual-format, so there isn't much of a worry about which one to buy, so after the initial explanation it isn't that much of a problem. (DVD Recorders, for TVs, tend to stick to one format for the cheaper ones, though I've found that some can record both even if they only list one.)

    If HD DVD and Blu-ray are a format war, I'm living in Switzerland. Unless they create at least a reader that can read both formats (I haven't heard of one, yet), one will come out on top. In the mean time, I am not going to spend my money on media and a player that may quickly go defunct, especially if the various Hollywood studios split on which format to use (assuming they don't do both.)

    I can see this being a big headache for stores- so many ill-informed (or just ignorant) consumers are going to buy one of the new discs, take it home, and be utterly miffed that it won't play on their player. They'll take it back, throw a tantrum, then pick out a different movie to exchange- and it will be in the same format as the one they just returned.

    I figure it will take about two years for one of these formats to come out the winner. Unfortunatly, Sony's Blu-ray will probably take the cake, as it's being incorporated in the PS3, which could sell like the PS2 at its release. Hello, Mr. DRM!

    In the mean time, since most companies will probably be wary over the format war, most movies/series will still be released on regular DVD, to the delight of myself and most consumers. It works great. The quality of DVDs are fine, in my opinion, and I don't have to worry about buying a new player (or three).

    The best ending would be that both formats fail, and I don't think this is out of the question. While the "hipsters" out there may want bigger and better, middle America is a-ok with DVDs, and will probably still be by 2008. With both formats failed, either the various companies will realize that they need one standard and work together on that, or we'll just replay the whole thing over again.

  15. Whoa, what's that you say? by kripkenstein · · Score: 2, Informative

    Disclaimer: I am a doctoral student in a computational neuroscience program.

    1) "quantum fluctuations" - there is no sizeable portion of the neuroscience community that believe this. Quantum effects are considered negligible for neuronal behavior.

    2) "calcium dendrites which are attached to neurons" - dendrites are PARTS of neurons (the part that gets input from other neurons), not something attached to them. Yes, certain dendrites are sensitive to calcium. But other neurotransmittors are just as important.


    But the end seems about right. We have no good idea of the limits of human memory. But also, we have next to no idea of how the brain stores memories. What you mention here is a wildly speculative theory.

  16. Re:"ensure the precision [...] of signal strength" by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 2, Funny
    "How exactly do you make a binary signal more 'precise'?"

    Green magic marker.

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  17. I wonder. by millennial · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Nero Burning ROM 7 supposedly has support for Blu-Ray discs (you can select it as a disc type when burning a disc image). I wonder if it actually supports them, or if it's just a placeholder for future functionality?

    --
    I am scientifically inaccurate.
  18. Not true by ElephanTS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    44.1kHz was chosen because it's a sub-carrier of the PAL frequency used to broadcast TV in Europe/Asia. There are two types even: pro and consumer (44100 and 44109 I think but I forget the details). It was to make the broadcast of digital sound (Like NICAM) easier to do over analogue pictures. Nobody predicted digital pictures at that time, just digital sound. What you've said is an urban myth.

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