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Pluto is Much Colder Than Expected

IZ Reloaded writes "Any would be travellers to Pluto should bring extra winter gear. The new temperature on Pluto according to scientists is 43 degrees Kelvin. That's 10 degrees Kelvin colder than expected. From CNN: "Astronomers think Pluto's colder than expected temperature reading involves interactions between nitrogen ice on the planet's surface and the nitrogen gas that makes up its atmosphere...Pluto is a dynamic example of what we might call an anti-greenhouse effect...""

51 of 298 comments (clear)

  1. hmm by autopr0n · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While scientificaly intresting, I don't think 10k really makes much of a diffrence for humans at that temprature.

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    1. Re:hmm by Sparr0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You would be surprised. I think it means ~33% more insulation required on any device that needs to stay heated to operate there.

    2. Re:hmm by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't understand why it would require so much more insulation. Isn't heat transfer proportional to the difference in temperature of each side? So if you wanted to maintain your equipment at 0c, that's 273K-43K = 230 vs 273K-53K= 220. The heat transfer of the material is a constant, so 230/220 = 1.045, so about 4.5% thicker insulation.

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    3. Re:hmm by Vellmont · · Score: 3, Informative

      Batteries don't tend to work very well at all at 43K. Since batteries are chemical devices the chemical reactions happen MUCH slower (if at all) at such a low temperature.

      I don't know the effects of cold on normal solid state electronics, but I wouldn't have a problem believing that some components aren't going to work normally at 43K. It's not as if the parts manufacturer tests them at these extreme temperatures.

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    4. Re:hmm by Belseth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's interesting because it's an effect they haven't seen before. An atmosphere actually helping to cool a planet is something new and pretty amazing. It seems to act like a giant evaporative cooler. The more that's understood about the physics of known planets the more accurate the information will be that can be gleaned from distant planets. Ten degrees may not seem like much but it's an important piece of the overall puzzle. It also means that Pluto is a lot more active and more interesting than people have thought.

    5. Re:hmm by jdbartlett · · Score: 3, Funny

      I just love the headline. Tourists dissappointed. Pluto falls short of vacationer's expectations.

      Man on Pluto: "It's cold."

      "It's not what we expected," said Mrs. White, mother of four, "We thought it'd be much milder than this. We haven't been able to go out all holiday and the kids have been bored. It was either this or Disney and the kids were all excited to get to see Pluto. We didn't think it'd be like this."

      Mr. White says he intends to pursue compensation from NASA and other astronomic research organizations for misrepresenting Pluto in tourist information.

      "It's flagrant false advertising," said Mr. White, father of three.

    6. Re:hmm by utnow · · Score: 2, Informative

      cooler temperatures will only improve performance in solid state electronics for so long... at some point they will actually begin to malfunction as a result of the extreme cold.

      http://www.octools.com/ramil/newscientist/faster.h tm

      a segment from the bottom...

      everything had frozen solid and the thermometer registered -150 C. Success. Then the monitor started to flash strange images. Pressing keys on the keyboard produced random characters on the screen. "In other words," Tranquilino says, "the motherboard was stuffed."

      Regardless of what actual mechanism caused the thing to fail, the cold temperature was the factor that drove it, making this a good example of a device failing in extremely cold conditions.

    7. Re:hmm by rocket+jockey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is just one of the reasons you don't use batteries far from the sun. RTG's generate a constant source of heat and electricity for years due to radioactice decay. You could up the anti with a full scale nuclear reactor but nasa would be hard pressed to sneak that out of the gravity well. The only other option is to beam energy there but that is a problem becuase it's hard the amim the attena. Nuclear power is really the only way to go for deep space travle.

    8. Re:hmm by Vellmont · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, from what I know the reason that RTG generators are used is because of the extremely low light levels so far from the sun, not cold. The Mars rovers for instance use solar panels with batteries and heaters. I'd bet batteries+solar panel+heaters is a LOT cheaper than an RTG.

      But you're right, on a mission to pluto they'd have to use an RTG for power, so chemical batteries wouldn't be needed. I hadn't thought of the low light levels. But, the original point is that a heat source is important because electronics don't work the same at such extremely low temperatures.

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    9. Re:hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative


      If the heat flow is radiation dominated, as is often the case when a system is vacuum isolated to minimize thermal conduction, it'll go like T^4 due to the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

    10. Re:hmm by Monsieur_F · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think we need more information about this family here : is Mr White Mrs White's husband ? Why is he only the father of three while his wife is mother of four ? Perhaps Mrs White had one child from someone else, for instance in a previous marriage ?

      I am all confused about all this. Please give us details !

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    11. Re:hmm by gauge+boson · · Score: 4, Informative
      Actually, the electronics needs to work also during the trip, where the temperature is about 2.7 K.
      Not really. The temperature of the heliosphere is actually rather high -- don't remember exactly offhand, but it's higher than the interstellar medium, which is somewhere around 7000K (give or take a couple thousand Kelvins). It's just that it stores almost no heat, since there's so little matter. (This is slightly sloppy wording, but close enough.) The upshot is that there is almost no heat conduction in either direction and almost all heat transfer occurs by blackbody radiation, which is amazingly inefficient. Even though Pluto doesn't have an atmosphere, touching the surface changes this entirely by providing a material to transfer heat to -- that's why a probe landing on Pluto would need a lot of insulation that a non-landing probe (e.g., V'ger) wouldn't.
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    12. Re:hmm by gauge+boson · · Score: 4, Informative
      That's not the temperature of the interstellar medium, it's the temperature of the cosmic background radiation -- they are completely different. I can see where the confusion could come from, though. Short version:
      • Cosmic Microwave Background: The residual heat of the big bang, redshifted (cooled) by ~13 billion years of expansion. This temperature is given in terms of the Stefan-Boltzmann relation (blackbody temperature), and basically represents the average temperature of the whole universe, including the vast, cold, empty intergalactic regions.
      • Interstellar Medium: A very diffuse (though still dense compared to the intergalactic regions) cloud of ionized gas filling the whole galaxy. These ionized particles move around very quickly, i.e., they're very hot (Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution). 7000K +/- 2000K according to this synopsis, at least for regions near the heliosphere.
      • Heliosphere: The gaseous bubble surrounding the sun out to about 100AU (Voyager 1 hit the termination shock where it meets the ISM at 94AU). It's hotter and denser than the interstellar medium, and it's where any space probe we launch would be travelling. Of course, since there is so little gas in even the heliosphere (its pressure would be considered a hard vacuum on Earth), these temperatures have very little effect on any spacecraft.
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    13. Re:hmm by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2, Funny

      I upped my anti once and my uncle beat the snot out of me.

  2. Explanation for the difference by winkydink · · Score: 4, Funny

    First time they used an oral thermometer, the second time a rectal one.

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    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:Explanation for the difference by slideroll · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, that was Uranus.

    2. Re:Explanation for the difference by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wait, which one of those had the warm pole?

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      "Derp de derp."
  3. Not that cold... by _PimpDaddy7_ · · Score: 5, Funny

    The new temperature on Pluto according to scientists is 43 degrees Kelvin.

    That's nothing, my ex girlfriend easily was the coldest object in our solar system. She had to be way colder than that.

    1. Re:Not that cold... by quokkapox · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, and you appear to be the ultimate ladies' man yourself, Mr. PimpDaddy7.

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  4. Not degrees by whmac33 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Could I be the first to point out that it's just 10 Kelvin? no degrees here

    1. Re:Not degrees by pranay · · Score: 2, Interesting
      For a change, the journalists got their science right. from the article:
      43 Kelvin (-382 degrees Fahrenheit) instead of the expected 53 Kelvin (-364 degrees Fahrenheit)
      But then, a fellow slashdotter uses degrees Kelvin and no eyebrows are raised.
    2. Re:Not degrees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      To be even more pedantic than you, the difference of 10 degrees is actually correct (if they didn't write the Kelvin) because a difference of 10 Kelvin is identically a difference of 10 Degrees Centigrade.

    3. Re:Not degrees by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, it's 10 kelvin. You capitalize the abbreviation K, but SI unit names are lower-case.

  5. In other news ... by slashbob22 · · Score: 2, Funny

    .. scientists are working on developing a new, heavier polluting, SUV to reverse the anti-greenhouse effect on Pluto.

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    Proof by very large bribes. QED.
  6. For the lazy by krunoce · · Score: 5, Informative
    43 kelvin

    = -382.27 degrees Fahrenheit
    = -230.15 degrees Celsius

    = really fucking cold outside.

  7. In other words by hyc · · Score: 4, Funny

    it's just the sort of place you'd need to run a few Pentium Extreme Edition systems.

    But seriously, while researchers try to find exotic materials that exhibit room-temperature superconductivity, you could take more common materials and run them at insanely fast speeds out there. Of course, it would take a while to upload your code and data and download any processing results.......

    Maybe the dark side of Mercury would be more feasible.

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    1. Re:In other words by Celarnor · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, at least there's a research group out there working on it. http://www.ipnsig.org/

    2. Re:In other words by techno-vampire · · Score: 4, Informative
      Maybe the dark side of Mercury would be more feasible.

      What "dark side of Mercury?" It's been known for over twenty years that Mercury rotates in 2/3 of the time it takes to orbit the sun rather than having its day equal to its year. It's just that the best times to observe the planet by telescope come about 2/3 or 4/3 of an orbit apart. (Not sure which one, but in either case, the same side was always lit when we could observe it. It took doppler radar to find out what was really going on.)

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  8. weird science by loserhead · · Score: 4, Interesting

    so it says that Charon, Pluto's moon, is warmer than the planet. Since Charon is almost as big as Pluto, I am sure this new tidbit will add more to the deabte concerning what relation the two celestial bodies have with each other and how they came to be paired.

  9. So? by millennial · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is 10K really all that significant? When you get down that low, you'd better be damn sure that your equipment is resistant to much lower temperatures anyway. Imagine Pluto with a wind chill...

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    I am scientifically inaccurate.
    1. Re:So? by gbobeck · · Score: 2, Funny

      Especially for smokers out on a smoke break...

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  10. Sensational + by someone without a science degree by Dzimas · · Score: 4, Informative
    The correct use is "43 kelvins." Unlike degrees Celsius or degrees Fahrenheit (both adjectives), it is a noun, and the correct pluralization is kelvins.

    I'm sure some newspaper will soon start running headlines about how Pluto is "23% colder than anticipated." In the real world, 10 K isn't that much, although it would be nice to know why our estimates are off. For reference, water freezes at 273.15 K, and the deepest darkest nook of outer space registers about 2.7 K, thanks to some background microwave radiation.

  11. Hmmmm.... by gordgekko · · Score: 2, Funny

    > Pluto is a dynamic example of what we might call an anti-greenhouse effect...

    So does that mean scientists will continue to change what we can expect from Pluto? One decade they say it will get warmer, the next decade cooler?

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  12. BAH! by dteichman2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    My P4 would fix that in about 10 mins.

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  13. But it's not so much . . . by Dausha · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's not so much the cold as it is the humidity.

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  14. Re:Alternative Title by jftitan · · Score: 2, Funny

    So with your title, Pluto, is now the 'in thing'... I so want one now.. where can I buy this cooler Pluto you so mention?

    Can there be anything more cooler than Pluto? Venus is Hot... I think I want a pin up poster of that one!

    --
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  15. Heinlein was wrong about Pluto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Heinlein's classic Have Space Suit, will Travel (which I will now call HSSWT) is one of Heinlein's last jouvenille novels to have its science become dated. The other novels had such quaint things as canals and martians on Mars, or a 200 where people had the ability to make synthetic gold, yet people still had to talk to a live bank teller to withdrawl money. HSSWT, until reasonably recently, had no such quaintness to it. However, (minor spoilers follow) there is a scene in the book where the hero has to go to Pluto. In the book, Pluto has an Earth-like gravity--however, Pluto is much smaller than we thought when Heinlein wrote this book; Pluto's gravitation force is only 6% (a little over 1/20th) of Earth's gravity.

    He was right about one thing though: It is very cold on Pluto.

  16. Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    so we're back to calling Pluto a planet again?

  17. Re:About this anti-greenhouse effect... by craXORjack · · Score: 4, Informative

    No. Pluto only has an atmosphere during its summer which it is currently in. (It is closer to the sun at 30AU than it will be again for a very long time) During the winter the atmosphere will give up it's heat and fall to the surface as solid nitrogen snow where it will sit for a couple hundred years until the sun once again turns it from solid to gas. But the surface will always stay at the same temperature. This is the same effect seen when you measure the temperature of water with ice cubes in it. The water will stay at 32 degrees until all the ice is gone even if you put a flame underneath. The added heat would merely make the ice melt faster rather than raise the water temperature.

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  18. In other news... by Somatic · · Score: 5, Funny
    > it's just the sort of place you'd need to run a few Pentium Extreme Edition systems.

    Microsoft has already launched a probe to harness the power of Pluto to cool the Xbox 360.

    The White House, misreading the term "global warming", immediately denied that Pluto exists. After reading the article they retracted the statement and issued another, stating that they will investigate Pluto's "anti-warmification properties".

    An investigation has been opened into just who Kelvin is, and why he's allowed to practice science without a degree.

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  19. anti-greenhouse effect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    anti-greenhouse effect? Shouldn't that be called the whitehouse effect :)

  20. Not A Surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    I mean, you'd be emotionally distant too if your master was never home, always away lobbying congress for copyright extensions.

  21. Hmmm... by squoozer · · Score: 3, Funny

    I didn't really have Pluto on my "must visit" list anyway but with that announcement it's certainly never going to be on it.

    Damn the Plutorians and their cold world.

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  22. Just in time! by noidentity · · Score: 3, Funny

    Good thing I saw as I was leaving on my vacation to Pluto; I hadn't packed any winter clothing. Thanks Slashdot!

  23. Off topic Kelvin joke by Flying+pig · · Score: 4, Funny
    Lord Kelvin has a son who inherits the title. He goes to Cambridge and takes his first degree in Natural Sciences and gets a First, while still managing to play Rugby. Then he goes to Oxford to do his BSc, and then goes back to Cambridge where he does a brilliant PhD while turning out part time for the England cricket team. At which point he has a nervous breakdown from all the work. As part of his recovery program he is found a nice quiet job working as a bus conductor (NB only older UK residents will understand this.)
    One day two Girton girls are on his bus and one remarks his age and physique, turns to the other and murmurs "Super conductor". To which the other replies "Three degrees Kelvin."

    As a result of the parent post, this joke is now officially demolished.

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    Pining for the fjords
    1. Re:Off topic Kelvin joke by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2, Interesting
      A few choice quotations from Lord Kelvin, President of the Royal Society:
      Radio has no future.
      Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.
      X-rays will prove to be a hoax.
      Apparently these were in 1899. They're all over the net and in print (eg the book Return of Heroic Failures) but I can't find a definitive source in context.
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      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  24. Re:Tornadoes? by hyc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's an interesting point. From the article, Pluto receives about 1/1000th as much sunlight as the Earth. From here http://www.powerfromthesun.net/chapter1/Chapter1.h tm we see that the Earth receives 1367 watts per square meter, so we can assume that Pluto typically receives only 1.367 watts per square meter. Dumping the heat from a single P4EE into Pluto's surface could be pretty disruptive, hundreds of watts over a small surface area. The rush of nitrogen vapor would be like a bomb exploding.

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  25. Re:Naturally... by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Funny

    What are you talking about? I saw them together in Vegas. With those white tigers. Really a great show.

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  26. Re:anti-greenhouse effect? by leoboiko · · Score: 2, Funny

    More catchphrases:

      - the redhouse effect (red is complementary to green)
      - the burnthouse effect (frost will "burn" plants in a greenhouse)
      - the evergreenhouse effect (it is so cold that the plants are actually frozen green forever)
      - the exgirlfriend effect (it's cold, and will never get warm; shameless plagiarizing another comment)

    Ok, I suck.

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  27. Degrees kelvin? Pedant Mode On! by gmccloskey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Repeat after me - there are no degrees kelvin, only Kelvin. Degrees centigrade and farenheit yes, Kelvin no.

  28. News just in... by himagain · · Score: 2, Funny

    NASA seek Geordie crew for first manned flight to Pluto. (T-shirts will be provided)