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Dungeons and Dragons Online Beta Impressions
The NDA for the Dungeons and Dragons Online Beta is now a thing of the past. F13's piece prior to the lifting of the NDA is a good place to get started. They also have a lively discussion going, discussing all aspects of the upcoming game, which launches February 28th. From the f13 piece: "The most important thing to understand about DDO is Turbine is trying a different take on the genre. People looking strictly for a WoW clone in a D&D flavored wrapper won't find it. For some that may be a good thing, for others not so much. Oh to be sure, it has a lot of the same trappings as your previous favorite graphical-Diku-mud; after all, most fantasy computer role playing games owe a little or very large portion of their structure to the granddaddy of all pen and paper rpgs, Dungeon & Dragons. So it comes as no surprise to find this game with familiar fantasy races, defined character classes, and easily recognizable fantasy monsters, magic items and spells. But, as I have grown fond of saying these last several years, the devil's in the implementation. To that end, DDO is almost as easily defined by what it is NOT as by what it IS."
Here's what I see happening:
When the game is released, the classes and creatures will feel a lot like they are described in the rulebooks. After a while, they'll nerf this and boost that until we are left with a game that is D&D in name only.
You'd think that after what, 25 years, the rules would be fairly well tweaked out. But once you move from 5 friends on a table to 5,000,000 on a server, some things will have to change.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
Not so much, really. From the article: all quests take place in private instances.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
The game seems to me to be Guild Wars with DnD rules. The meat of the game play is in an instanced dungeon with you and your party members. They should have taken the Guild Wars approach to henchmen and given you the option of several styles of NPC party members. I might consider doing it that way. I'm in the same boat as the original author: I don't group with strangers and my friends are on rarely (if at all).
Plus, I'm not paying monthly to play a game 2-4 hours per week (if that much). Either use Guild Wars payment approach or have some kind of tiered payment for the casual gamer such as myself. I'm not subsidizing server and bandwidth costs for all the folks with 80 hours/week available to play.
it's really fun and addictive for about 2-3 months. Then the glory really just dies. The main problem with how the game is setup that as stated above you can only get xp by finishing a quest completely. and all of the early quests are geared for either full grps or lone fighters. try soloing a dungeon as a mage and you'll pretty much end up dead. This then leads to masses of people only playing the dungeons that grant the most XP. but ofcourse playing a dungeon to many time will lead to no xp. overall the graphics and sound is pretty good though. I loved my 3 months i played hard-core but i def. will not pay to play it.
Combat : Here is where DDO shines. As a MMORPG, it blends click with dodge very nicely. I can backstab, jump, tumble, climb, and never feel like I'm doing "the WoW thing" (aggro-heal-tank repeat) by just standing there and pressing my combos. Firing my bow yields a satisfying woosh-thunk. Wielding my dagger from the shadows is a treat when I do it right. Its somewhat disappointing to hear there's no PvP in the game, but they promise it will come. In the end, the RPGs that are about fighting stuff should make sure that the task is fun. WoW is not. DDO most definitely is!
Gameplay : Aside from combat, the instances are very interesting. Even though the adventures I experienced were basically linear channels through a dungeon, I still felt like I was exploring and discovering. There are environment puzzles to solve and secret doors to find. Very different from every MMORPG that I've ever played, and I have to admit quite satisfying.
The World : The hub style of MMO really bums me out, for many reasons. Every aspect of the gameplay exists within private instances. Groups are found in the town areas, ala Guild Wars. Due to this, all open-ended gameplay disappears and is replaced by simple, directed instancing. Your mileage may vary, but I prefer plundering vast open plains and mountains. Worlds are fun. Boxes less so.
Story : Hrm. I saw very little "story" in the game. None of the NPCs even speak, so this generally bleeds away any characterization or drama from the experience. Perhaps there will be larger "world arcs" to follow in the actual game.. I'm hoping so.
And thats about all I have time to say. Will I get the game? Well, seeing as how I'm a fan of Dungeons and Dragons and RPGs I will definitely be there on opening night. Whether I see enough to justify the monthly fee remains to be seen. I have high hopes, and my experience thus far has been quite positive. Will it unseat WoW? Doubtful. But rest assured, its the best WoW alternative out there.
Just my humble opinion.
I got into the closed beta a day after the FilePlanet Stress Test was over.
Don't get this game expecting to solo. A lot of folks have pissed and moaned about that, but they are trying to be pretty true to the Pen and Paper (PnP) rules and designs. You almost never see a DM spend all this time to create a world, dungeons, and the like, and then have them sit down at a table with a lone player with a lone character. Get over your wish to solo. It's a MMO. You are supposed to be grouping!
With the launch set for the 28th, there are a ton of bugs still in the game. They finally got the party and voicechat server fixed after a week of downtime. They have a good half dozen important quests that are broken. They have had to close one dungeon due to an exploit that was being done ad naseum by players abusing invisibility. Characters are still in their skivvies on the Character Select screen. Some characters die and can't rez when they release from their corpse. Some folks have gotten stuck in the Marketplace for more than a week. And the bank has been known to randomly lose items.
They are taking their time in between beta patches. I'd like to see some of these things tested in house and then pushed into the beta quicker, but they are making progress. The fix some things, and have proven to be cautious in how they work. Circle-strafing was a huge problem, so they did a tweak to make the mobs work better against it. Now it is a little less effective, but still works darn well. I expect another fix to that tactic.
There is a significant lack of content. While Turbine expects characters to repeat dungeons to gain XP and gear, it almost borders on the ridiculous. It is so bad that same folks deliberately don't level up, so they can gain XP at their last trained level, instead of the level they could be. Instead of losing out on groups due to their level, they just make sure they form their own groups. This lack of content means that they will have to have some expansions ready to go within 3 months, to keep customers happy. Not a healthy sign.
The system of collectables to gain minor magic items gets really old after a while. They fill up your inventory, and many of them aren't worth the time, especially as you gain levels. By lvl 5, over half of them aren't worth the effort, but unless I keep a list out, I end up collecting the stupid things.
Inventory space can be crowded, depending on your class and other things. But, there is a reason. Fighter types tend to carry one of every type of Bane weapon they can find, so they can whip out whatever works best for every mob. It borders on the absurd, really. Realistically, a character carrying a half dozen 2-handed weapons would trip over them constantly.
Mob AI is pretty darn good. The mobs tend to choose spells to much better effectiveness than most MMOs, where they just cast 1-2 spells. Having an Arcane Skeleton cast CloudKill on your group, then switch to Fireball or Lightning Bolt is pretty effective. Ray of Enfeeblement, Curses, and the like are also thrown about liberally.
There are more traps than you can shake a stick out. Rogues become a necessity for once in MMOs. However, trap placements are static in a dungeon. Do that dungeon a few times, and you start to remember where they all are. Really hurts, since the previously mentioned lack of content means you learn those dungeons by heart. I think I can find my way through some easier than I can get to the grocery store, now.
The social part of the game leaves a lot to be desired right now. I hope it improves. Pickup groups, like in most MMOs, sucks. And at release, new players are going to get stuck playing with beta testers that know all the lvl 1-5 dungeons by memory, and are going to push through at breakneck speed in the grand effort to be highest level of that class, first. (The MMO version of the e-penis award, I guess.)
I really want to track down my old PnP group, which has scattered around the country after coll
So basically, it can't do anything new, anything Neverwinter Nights hasn't done for years. Plus, the review says combat rules are nothing like D&D and more like Diablo?!? Oh my, what a letdown. Wake me up when there is a persistent world that obeys D&D (or better: Hackmaster) rules.
DO NOT PLAY MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAMES!
Please understand that this is not a troll, but there's nothing more infuriating than trying to talk to some running-around asshat who won't even acknowledge you. Totally ruins the atmosphere, dontcha think?
I mean, why log on to a server with well over thousands of players if it's only to do quests alone, play alone, and not even interact with other people? It's the basic premise of an MMORPG, roleplaying! Talking, drinking an ale at the inn while sharing stories, discussing current events, exchanging gossip, political information, creating ties between guilds/factions/whatnot, haggling for prices with a player craftsman, going in to feel how it would really be if you lived there! Not a chatroom with a fantasy backdrop! Not an FPS for people who can't aim, either.
Soapbox session over.
The problem is not with the game, it is with how you want to play a game.
Your criticism is Useless and meaningless. You cannot criticize an SUV for not going really really fast, and you should not critizice an MMO for not playing like a single-player RPG.
It almost seems incomplete without a similar line about "whaaaa - I paid for the game at the store why do I have to keep paying each month - whaaaaa" (though there are doubtlessly a few dozen of those posted below, no doubt)
Unfortunately, this moronic ejaculation by all three of you completely qualifies you to write game reviews for a living. Congratulations.
Designing an MMORPG must be a bitch. It doesn't matter wich choice you make it will always upset someone who will bitterly complain that your game wich they have no intention of really paying for anyway is not exactly like the game they are paying for.
Look at the reactions so far to DDO. It ain't WoW. Well no fucking shit sherlock. It never tried to be. In fact if you looked at the design docs it is very clear that they pretty much designed the game to be not WoW.
The world doesn't need another WoW or EQ or Guild Wars or Age of Camelot or Lineage because all these games already exist.
We get countless articles bemoaning that games are just endless sequels with no originilaty but beware the company that actually tries to do something different.
So DDO does not have PvP. Must every MMORPG game have PvP? It reminds me of a few years ago when every game had to have a multiplayer mode no matter how silly. Or the days of the bubble when even the local bakery had to have a website.
DDO also seems to want to get rid of the level grind. Levels are the bane of MMORPG games. Why? How much trouble do you have in forming a team for Capture the Flag in quake? Oh none? Just join and your in a group? Might this because there is no level in quake and anyone can group with anyone else?
Now imagine quake where the longer you have had the game the more damage you do with your weapons. How attractive would it be to buy the game 3 months after launch? Yet this is exactly what happens in games like EQ1/2 and SWG NGE has added it as well. If your a real newbie then good luck. You will maybe wonder where the hell everyone is. Well they are in the high level areas wondering why there are no new players. Grouping up with a high level was added to EQ2 with the high level then lowering his level to yours but it is a pain. You got to find a really nice person who is willing to help you level up and that is exactly what they will be doing, trying to get you to level up as fast as possible. You even get more XP when being mentored to make the grind faster. The notion that its is the journey that matters not arriving seems not to exist in MMORPG land. Perhaps I am just a weirdo who likes to quest and doesn't care if it is at level 1 or level 1000th.
Levels create yet more problems. If you have crafting then high levels usually have no need for low level crafters items. Low level crafters can only gain XP by grinding low level items. CUE SWG and its "bought" crafter levels where a player would get money being a combat class to then pay for grinding to master crafter. No new player wanted to be a pure crafter could make it work. You would simply go bankrupt.
DDO seems to have dropped crafting altogether. Bad news for those who like a player run economy but at least it saves them a lot of problems. Since no game has ever gotten it right before.
PvP is yet another Level nightmare. Obviously a level 10 is goint to beat a level 1. Great fun for the level 10 especially if the level 1 was AFK because noobs just deserve it you know (there may be nice PvP fans but I never seen one). PvP fans want to race to the highest level and then wack their e-penis at lower level players. Nothing a PvPer enjoys more then challenging players in the starter area to duels.
DDO so far has 10 levels. Or does it? With 4 mini levels it could be said to have 40 levels. What of course really matters is how much difference there is between levels. Lets just say that a level 1 ddo player will get his ass handed back to him by a level 10 in the same way as a level 1 EQ player will get his ass handed to him by a level 60 EQ player. Oh and the ruleset for DDO allows for far higher classes. If they come you will have peasant players and virtual gods trying to exist in the same world.
Will it avoid the level grinding trap of other MMORPG games or will it to have endless walktrhoughs for levelling up the fastest and then complaining there is not enough high level content and there just don't seem to be new players
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Sadly, that's a universal truth.
After suffering the trials and tribulations of pickup groups in various MMOGs for some years now, I've finally found a solution that avoids the problems of pickup groups entirely: henchmen in Guild Wars:
Henchmen are a wonderful answer to the many problems of building and playing with teams in MMOGs. It's sad to see that DDO doesn't provide their own version of GW's henchies, and therefore suffers all the old problems that player teams bring with them.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
The core idea of D&D has always been the adventuring group venturing into the dungeon to face the dangers, alone. There's possibly only ever been 1 dungeon in D&D that receives enough traffic to make a non-instanced dungeon feel right, and that's not in Eberron(Undermountain). As Turbine seems to be going to great lengths to make it feel authentic, the instanced quests make perfect sense.
The role of the writer is not to say what we can all say, but what we are unable to say. -Anais Nin
So heres the final word as to why I dont like this game:
The art style.
Its not about weither or not its gritty. Its about the artist copying the bad dnd 3rd ed art. I can quote atleast one friend saying that the Elves look like they all have downs Syndrome. I know, probably spelt that wrong, but you get the picture. The art is just plain Ugly overall, and stickfigury.
The only plus I've seen to it, is that it avoids the "Busty Female with no pants" syndrome. If the character = female, than they're armored to the gills just the same as the male counterparts.
I'd kill for a mod point right now. I'm so glad that SOMEONE finally pointed out the obvious.
This is a source of some frustration to me. People buy an MMORPG, then complain that it's not soloable. If I wanted a soloable game, I wouldn't be buying an MMORPG! I guess these folks' reason for wanting an MMORPG is just so that they can see other avatars running around, not actually interact with them.
Jeez, as a computer geek, I'm about as antisocial as the rest of you, but at least I have the gumption to fire off an invitation to team up every once in a while. Frankly, this is precisely why one should want an MMORPG! I've met many cool strangers through MMORPGs, people I now consider new friends. There's hardly ever a shortage of these folks I know now online to team up with, and I enjoy doing so immensely.
So seriously, folks, stop complaining that your MMORPG is not conducive to solo play. Stop trying to convince the developers of MMORPGs that they should make your solo character so very powerful that you can accomplish anything in the game without having to (gasp!) talk to anyone else. As the parent said, if that's what you want, go buy a single-player RPG.
Have any of you complainers actually ever even played the old paper-and-pencil Dungeons and Dragons game? If so, how fun was it to solo that?
(sigh)
Thanks for your OPINION, but a significant number of players disagree with you.
I never said that I wanted to solo ALL the time, but I do want options when my friends are not available. I do not choose to include grouping with J Random Stranger as one of those options. I've played these games for YEARS and life (and my available gaming time) is too short to waste my time on what is 99% of the time a frustrating and fruitless effort. The chat system in DDO is absolutely horrible, and it's actually a vast improvement over the interface available in Alpha. Simply put, it makes the process of putting a party together even more painful and fruitless as it is in other games.
As to "soloing" PnP D&D, I've done it. Way back in the 80's when I was in High School, there were very few of us that played. Often only two of us had time to play. In those situations one would GM and the other would pad out his "party" with henchmen. Not ideal, but honestly what fucking business is it of yours what I or anyone other than yourself enjoy anyhow?
To those saying "you're playing it wrong": Bullshit. I'm playing the way I'm going to get maximum enjoyment out of it. I fucking well WILL judge a game and its suitability based on MY criteria.
It's not like I'm asking them to change the game to suit me. I'll simply take my dollar elsewhere. There are plenty of MMOs out there with content available for people who want to solo, rather than hang out and try to scrape up a group of griefers and AOL kiddies. I'll play one of those.
I will NOT be silent about why though.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
I've heard this comment (or others like them) many times, and I've never understood them. As much as it is a genre of games, a MMORPG is a game implementation. Why would anyone want to play it alone?
Let's see:
1) The world is vast and fun to explore
2) It's fun to play the character classes in that world
3) The battle system is varied and interesting
4) The story line is compelling
Get the picture? Notice how often I mentioned other on-line players?
A game is either fun or it's not; whether it happens to be implemented on-line is irrelevant. I've played Guild Wars since it came out, and I've had a blast. I haven't grouped at all. Horrors! I've been playing an on-line game like I'd have played it if it were off-line. My god - where are the police when you need them?
I played and posted my two cents on Blue's News on 12/14/2005:
/laugh, /dance, /p for party talk, etc.
"I played it last night for an hour. It looks pretty especially the indoor places, but for some reason the engine wasn't smooth like WoW. I thought it was lags, but it was still not smooth even at 6 AM PST. Taverns (those are cool -- better than WoW's inns) are so laggy for me. Solo instances(?) are smoother, but not that smooth. Outdoor areas lag too for me. The game was choppy for me with everything ON and without antialias on my XFX NVIDIA GeForce 6800 (128 MB), Athlon 64 3200+, and 1.5 GB of RAM. I had turn things down like use billinear, distance view lowered, etc.
I did not like its GUI. I think it was just too big especially when my maximum screen resolution is 1152x864. I prefer WoW's.
I loved the character setup. I made a hot chick with red long hair [grin]. Its setup reminds me of City of Heroes and City of Villain's. I also like the video clips (I wonder how much disk space these took up) showing each player class. I played as a barbarian since I like meelee fightings. I only got off the second boat after training. I will play more later hopefully. A lot of commands are similiar if you know WoW like:
To compare, I still like WoW more so far."
I wonder how much has changed since then.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
So you have actually played the DnD Online. The groups don't need to be huge, usually a group of about 3-4 PC's of the quests level plus one of the next level up... and I played for 3-4 hours a night while my test machine was running and had no problem finding groups when I wanted them. The LFG option is a good one. My only problem with the game is that I am going to have to pay to play after the release date... I had a few problems during the beta but nothing to huge. The balance of characters is very good. The only down side was the fact that you almost always needed a Rogue for all the traps. Someone needs to think that one through. A few of the side quests were a pain though like the friggin boss parts of the Sewer Quest part III. now I'm not quite sure I liked the leveling scheme but that is something that I may find out more about once I get into the game better. I just hope that the world expands for some more outdoor quests ontop of everything else. And maybe even adding in a jobs function much like that in the old SW:Galaxies, for those that want to do something like that.
Where's that cap to the Decanter of Endless water???
While I didn't much like DDO, a friend of mine, who is an avid pen and paper D&D gamer, did like the game. It provided the kind of D&D experience he's been looking for. For comparison, we both tried the World of Warcraft free trial, and while I very much liked that game he didn't care for it in the least. His main concern with DDO was the feeling that there was a lack of content especially given the low level cap.
I'm convinced DDO is going to cater to a very specific group of gamers. I don't expect many are going to be lured from WoW, perhaps more will come from EQ/EQ2. One big problem is that the game made me feel very isolated from the larger world. First of all the game is very linear, at least initially. I'm stuck in one small section of the city until I complete a number of quests. Then I can only move on by completing another set of quests or by levelling up, which takes an excruciatingly huge amount of time. The second problem is that the player teleports to every instance. There's some dungeon hundreds of miles away and the hero materializes there suddenly. It hurts immersion.
Of course, there's a more significant problem here with all the instancing. Guild Wars instances all quests just like DDO, but that game is free to play. Furthermore, there's more of a sense of location in that game because you actually travel through the lands outside towns and forts. That game also progresses a lot more quickly than DDO does, but it does provide a very different experience from DDO.
I think Neverwinter Nights provided a very similar, but more fast-paced and entertaining experience than Dungeons & Dragons Online. That's not to say DDO is necessarily a bad game, but I don't think it's going to appeal to most people and given that it's a subscription-based game it's going to be even more difficult to attract gamers, especially given the competition. I guess this game will show whether or not there's a market for a reasonably faithful D&D experience in PC gaming.
Now maybe it's just me, but when I think of "Dungeons & Dragons," I primarily think of settings such as Greyhawk, Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms. When I think of an MMORPG which uses the D&D brand, I'd expect it to use one of these iconic D&D settings (probably Forgotten Realms due to the higher magical content) rather than a newish pseudo-pulp fantasy setting.
Unfortunately, they've decided the latter, and are using Eberron. Not that there's anything wrong with Eberron: If they marketed it as "Eberron Online," I'd be all over it. But D&D Online? Gimme something classic. Something with staying power. Something that D&D fans from five, ten, fifteen years ago will still be familiar with.
Of course, I'd kill for a Planescape MMORPG, but that's neither here nor there.
Soylens viridis homines es
Combat is fun, but there is very little content. You'll pay your 50$ then your 15$ for subscribing, and you'll 'beat the game' in under 4 weeks. What I mean to say is you'll have a near max level character with awesome equipment... When you have +5 weapons and max level, what else is there to do? Its not like you can marry the princess and raise children. Your goal in the game was lewt and power. When you got all the power and played all the missions, there is no motivation to play on. I think the game will be a success, but there will be few long time subscribers.
God spoke to me.