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Your Experiences with Recruiters?
companyAdvocate asks "I work in a small, high end IT consultancy. We are currently on a large recruitment drive and our targets are very ambitious. We are looking into alternative, original and cost-effective ways of hiring talented people. Google's billboard ad comes to mind. As we are a consultancy, we need good communicators as well as techies and raising the company profile may be an added bonus. What is the Slashdot community's experience with alternative recruitment methods? Were you hired in an exciting or interesting way? How do you make even rejected candidates leave with a positive impression?"
You have the right idea tapping into this site as a resource pool, but perhaps you should look for talent here as well? Give everyone a job who scores 5/5 on this Slashdot thread. Start with me, and work your way down the list. I will provide a resume and credentials upon request.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
How do you make even rejected candidates leave with a positive impression?
Two weeks pay would be nice.
Well, I saw a posting on Craigslist, so I replied. Monday I went in for an interview and personally I thought I was waaaaay too wooden and not likely to get the job. They had me take a skills test in PHP (but couldn't decide if PHP Programming or PHP Scripting was the correct test). Either way, my test results were good, and they said that they'd try to get me an interview with the client on Friday. Friday comes, and I get a call from them. Turns out they just wanted me to start on Monday. I still work there to this day.
And that, is my experience with recruiters.
You could try identifying good people in on-line discussion forums, Usenet groups, etc. There you can immediately gauge not only a person's technical knowledge, but their ability to convey it in writing.
How you then approach them is a different question, of course. For example, I do post to various technical Usenet groups, and I've always assumed that's where the headhunters found me one day. Personally, I was mildly flattered, and I did sent them a polite reply declining their offer (since I had no interest in moving to where the job was based). However, I can imagine that others might not be so charitable about unsolicited e-mails these days.
You could always try leaking the name of your company later in this story. You're not short of geeks who know their stuff around here, so all you have to do is get rid of the 95% who can't right too safe they're lifes, and your problem's solved. :o)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
If that's alternative, so be it. Get in front of actual people. Go to social events. Attend symposia. Lift a glass or two. Get to know individuals as human beings. Watch them when they are interacting with others - not just you. Don't talk to people you might want to hire with a desk in between you.
Let people get to know you. Be accessible.
Get out there, for catssakes! What's keeping you? What the hell are you asking us for? Go! If you don't have a network already, you're behind. If you have one but it's not actively working for you, you're behind.
Just a guess here, but I think you're behind.
Host a job fair at a university that is close to your company's main location. Not only would you provide experience to a host of university nearly-grads, but you'll be able to scope out the creme of a specific university's crop. Finally, you can also provide benefits and generally increase the educational level of that university through other means, which will net you higher quality employees already localized to the area.
--- Ãther SPOON!
In a company where I was recruited, they had an IQ test and a programming test (SQL + general algorithms).
The project manager (who was a senior programmer) was the one who interviewed me.
This was very personalized, and the whole recruitment process made me feel appreciated and worthy. This isn't something many companies give.
Of all the recruiters I've dealt with (at least 20), not one has even gotten me an interview.
Being a web developer who actually knows (X)HTML, I was once hung up on by a recruiter when I told her I don't use Dreamweaver. A year later, I start seeing job postings where DW experience is a disadvantage.
But, a recruiter is sometimes only as useful as the requirements they get. 10 years of .NET experience? 15 years of J2EE? The list of absurd requirements goes on and on.
As for one alternative, post on Cragslist in your area. Monster and Dice are becoming less and less useful as time goes on.
Problem is, the "word of mouth" pool is finite. You only really get a superior candidate pool with at most two degrees of separation - you either hire someone you know, or someone recommended by someone you know. Go further apart and the social mechanisms that makes the method work (personal trust and obligations) fall apart, and you're no better off than advertising in a trade publication.
And you only know so many people in the business - and they only know so many - that the pool of competent and available candidates isn't large. You can fill one or two positions at a time by word of mouth, but if you're looking for a dozen people it's no longer any better than other ways.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
If you're looking to hire good Computer Science people, make all your emails plaintext. For more fancy formatting, use HTML forms and PDF. Many companies do not realize that UNIX sysadmin applications should not be Word attachments.
Our job postings include the text "Submit resume in plain text or PDF format."
Resumes submitted in Word format are immediately deleted unread -- the applicant is unable to follow a simple instruction. Test #1: FAILED.
If you want more hands on treatment, there seems to be an explosion of "employee agents"; resume writing agencies on steriods, "job search coaches". These are people you pay, though when I speak to them every fraud alert bone in my body goes off. I submitted my own "Ask Slashdot" to see what others experiences with these services were like. I suspect they could be valuable, but I also imagine it would be an easy scam to run on vulnerable people.
As for this gentleman writing this article, I suspect the Google puzzle billboard idea won't go far since it apeals to a different sort of person. Google was looking for really smart people irrespective of personalities. Of course, I'm also curious because I happen to be looking for such an opportunity, so I want to know what to be looking for :)
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
You've asked a bunch of questions here... good ones... Alternative means of hiring: Monster still has some effectiveness, although it is no longer an alternative means. You get lots of bulk that way, but there are many gems in that particular stream. Perhaps you could team with folks like Monster to come up with some neat ideas.
A good alternative would be to hold a contest of some sort. Let potential job applicants put together solutions, write software to solve a simple, fixed problem. Give the most successful applicants some incentives (other than just a job): perhaps some small cash prizes; something interesting like a nice gadget; perhaps some interesting prestige like a listing in some neat place on a web page or a brochure.
How might you leave rejected candidates leave with a positive impression: First and foremost, make decisions in a fairly quick period of time. Don't leave folks hanging out there for long periods. Also, tell the rejected applicants what it was that was good about the applicant. Perhaps let the person know on what they could work to make themselves more attractive to the type of position for which they applied (in other words, help them in their future employment quests).
Hiring communicative technical people is a special challenge: It is generally better to hire someone who has experience, and a great attitude and excellent human communications - even if they don't have all the super-duper "on-paper" skills for which you might be looking. Exciting ways to be interviewed and recruited: Throw a celebration focused on your company, bring your most fun and interesting people to the party, then invite lots of possible applicants. Mix it up with the folks, have some free poker games (not money gambling, just plain chips with door prizes, etc.), no booze, just great snacks, good music, and lots of chairs and tables where people can sit down and pitch the company or pitch themselves as applicants. Make it fun, advertise it in key places in the country. Don't be afraid to fly extremely interesting candidates out to your party...
Every nickel you spend on getting face-time with applicants is well spent... make lots of fun and interesting ways to attract applicants to your meetings...
A Passionate Independent Musician
So talk to them and you will get suggestions, if you find really talented people, don't try to embarass yourself with tests and interviews. Talk to people they worked with, talk to them casually and talk to their references, you get much better picture and comming with offer because you know this is the right person, without resorting to tests and tricky questions on interviews, leaves a lot of positive impression.
If my employer had the smarts to come up to me and ask, I could name easily ten people who could each replace 2-3 average employees I meet with at my company. Of course, most of them already have a job and would need some incentive to come on board or relocate, but its alwasy worth it to employ one exceptional worker rather than five average. And they often get the same amount work done. Often its cheaper even if you'd pay them double salary, which you probably won't.
If programs would be read like poetry, most programmers would be Vogons.
I half to admit that they always got me an interview, and always got me a job, but the few times I've had a chance to see the info they presented to my prospective employer - I wouldn't have even recoginized that it was talking about me. What was even funnier is that I would get the job thinking that I am doomed when they find out about all the bullshit that was spoonfed to them, but instead they're impressed - cause I guess they were expecting bullshit, but then actually got some substance instead. Go figure?
What exactly is it with the inflexible attitude of some employers and prospective employees?
You people really need to loosen up a bit. It's a diverse world out there and you're seriously going to miss out on some great opportunites if you keep playing the "my rules or else" game.
If anything, it just shows that you're a stubborn prick or a control freak.
I never send a resume in anyting but PDF unless I'm sure I'm sending it to the company itself, not a head-hunter. That way I'm almost sure it's not going to be "massaged" by some lying scum to add skills I neither have nor want, and that my words will go out as written. I also take a copy with my to any interview, so if it turns out my interviewer got an edited copy, I can show them what I actually wrote. So far, I've never had an interview end at that point, but it's been close a few times.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
Well, then they probably won't notice when you bury a ton of stuff as hidden text in the Word document that will trip their keyword search software no matter what they're looking for.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I interviewed with a company called HopOne located in Seattle the day after Thanksgiving last year. I thought the interview went really well and I was both excited about the position and confident I had nailed the interview. I was told they would let me know their decision by the following Friday. To this day I have yet to hear a single word from them reagrding the position despite several follow up e-mails and phone calls. They have totally ignored me and couldn't even muster the common decency to let me know anything one way or the other regarding the position. That should be an excellent example of what not do do if you wish to leave a psoitive impression. My impression of HopOne has been severaly tainted and I can't say I recommend them in any sort of a positive way. I also hope that in some way instant karma pays back all of the principles involved.
I also interviewed with a recruiter once who told me, "I love your credentials, and if none the 3 candidates I've currently got interviewing for this position today pan out, I'll be happy to submit your resume." (This was after insisting that I drive 50 miles each way that very day to rush to interview with him as soon as posible. It turned out it was just so he'd be ready to send someone else right away if needed.)
My point with both of the above examples is that I am fine with not being the one selected for a job I have interviewed for. Simply let me know that you've gone with someone else and show me a little respect during the process.
Showing just a little common decency and respect doesn't seem to be asking for very much...
Using PDF is a sort of half measure. If you have rendered your document into PDF using a real PDF distiller (like the one from Acrobat), then the actual text will still be present in the document and it is quite possible for someone to do whatever they like with it in Acrobat or upload it into a recruiter search system where it can easily be indexed and used for further contacts with clients (which you may not want at all at that point).
:)
However, if you create your PDF file using a tool like PDF995 which acts as a printer driver and therefore distills the printer directives into PDF as an image (and not as text), the actual text of your resume will be inaccessible except visually. This gives you complete control over where and how your resume gets distributed because everything out there today requires being able store and index your resume at a text level and (so far) does not include automatic OCR as well (which would actually be quite effective in a case like this - but shhh! don't tell the recruiter geeks!
I've actually detected unauthorized use of my resume in this way when I get a call from an agency claiming that "they really need my resume in Word format because they don't have Acrobat and can't read the file *sob*". I don't do further business with those firms.
Have fun...
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Personally when I apply for a job I want to know whether my CV was received (this can be done with automatic email confirmation), and how many days I will have to wait until I have an answer. Then, after this period has elapsed, I want to know whether my application was accepted or rejected, and, if possible, the reason. For example: "Your application was accepted because you meet all requirements and you know good XML, please come for an interview and get ready to answer some programming questions about PHP and XML" or "your application was rejected because you do not have the necessary prior experience at another company" or even "your application was rejected because your CV was too long" (so, in that case, I can send a shorter CV). Before I apply I also want to know the exact geographical location where I will work and, if possible, the salary. Additionally, I want to know the privacy policy of the company and how long my CV will be archived, as well as whether and how I can update my CV in the company's database (if it has one). I believe that the best way to recruit talented people is not to ask for specific degrees or professional experience, but to put a programming problem of medium difficulty on the vacancy ad and request all CVs to include a solution to the problem. Remember: The best way to keep people happy is to treat them as human beings, not like machines. By the way, here is my professional webpage.
The thing that always worked for my fellow IT friends is the tangible offer of mad loot and crazy benefits.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
Know any good developer pickup lines?
Is your resume padded, or are you just happy to see me?
My top 3 experiences with recruiters have been:
3) "Interested in a one millisecond contract job in <some city a thousand miles away>?"
2) "Maybe you know some people who might be interested in new opportunities?"
And the #1 experience:
"Can you please forward me a copy of your resume in Word format?"
A notable experience I've never had with a recruiter? Getting a job via one.
Why do they always want a Word version of your resume? When I was last looking and got contacted, I'd just point them to my online resume. It seemed to drive them crazy. Why? They still could've copied-and-pasted it into a new Word doc, and saved it off. Or was it about me not specifically sending it to them? As if that constituted an implicit contract or something, or my consent that they submit my resume all over town? The problem with that is, they're not going to position just you for the job, they're going to position the person who they think they have the best chance of placing. But if you then want to take a shot at getting an interview for the job yourself, it seems like if the company received your resume from a recruiter, then they cannot deal with you directly. So you're effectively screwed out of that potential job.
The bottom line is, I'm not really clued in to the rules of the game when playing with recruiters, and they sure don't seem to want to reveal anything about it, so I can only assume there's a lot that's not in my best interest.
Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
ok, here's a list based on my experience with them during interviews and career fairs - and feedback from people i know.
;)
:)
Intel - they give noctoriously hard questions, with 3 rounds of interviews. but there were simple interviews where they only asked about course projects and not too much textbook material in too much depth. in the latter case, there was only 1 interview round before the candidate was hired.
Xilinx - phone screen - basic textbook material. onsite: presentation. multiple full day interviews based on in depth textbook material. the onsite was probably 20 times more difficult. Interviews were disorganized. They had a list of questions that they go through and some of them were repeated from one interviewer to the next. This was in the valley and some of the people seemed to have attitude and ego problems, and didn't like to listen to your answer when are multiple solutions to the interview question. The group looked like zombies, probably from all the overtime shifts.
Analog Devices - the campus onsite interviews are a complete waste of time. they're basically for PR purposes whether they're planning on hiring or not for the year. Questions they ask are generally simple, but I hear onsite interviews are always challenging. Recruiters at the career fairs are always excellent and informative. Company slide presentations are always disorganized - but we were engineering students - who really cares anyway
Teradyne - Campus onsite interviews are usually given by aluminus of the university. I have a theory that their company is sending these folks for interviewing is because these are the ones that have nothing else better to do at work - i.e., they can afford to send the non productive ones for these events... At the career fair, almost all of the recruiters think you don't know anything about the field and go through the whole process explaning everything. Perhaps it's their strategy - holding up a queue at their booth so it looks like they're generating a lot of popularity and interest! Some of them don't even know what they're talking about after working there for a couple of years.
NVidia - this one's the worst. They used to show up at the career fair and flat out refused people's CV right at the spot if their GPA is below 3.5. They would ask up front and basically tell you to buzz off if you "don't have what it takes". I know of someone who worked there as an intern and he basically had to go through their insane work hours. Oh, what happens to the ones that get past that absurd GPA screening? They sit you down at the back of the booth, and basically ask you technical problems which would take up to over an hour.
Synopsys - Very reasonable interviews. They ask really good questions and are not there to find out what you don't know, but what you do, and to really see what you're capable of. They're interested in seeing your thought process and would give you slight nudges in the right direction to see whether you catch on.
Anyway, my current job was found through monster. I had my interview, signed the offer and began work just within 9 day of submitting my application online. I'll not name the company here, but interview process was very reasonable, (see Synopsys - very similar). Very humane people and you had a sense of the great people you would be working with if hired. After graduating, it took me 3 months of job search before I found the job.
Amazing work environment - but that'll be for another time and a different story
my blog
Here are my recommendations:
Be honest. If you aren't, it will show in everything you say and and you will get applications from dishonest people, who will make your life miserable.
Be trustworthy. If you say or imply you will do something, do it. People who are analytical enough to do well in a technically demanding job are analytical enough to be aware if you are mentioning one thing but doing another.
Of course, being trustworthy is one aspect of being honest. However, so many companies have difficulty with creating trust that it deserves to be mentioned separately.
Look for people who communicate well. Every job requires interaction with other people. If you find someone who isn't good at communicating, you have found someone who fundamentally doesn't like working with other people. Such a person drives up costs in ways that are difficult to measure.
Advertise on Slashdot. Many very smart people read Slashdot. When someone replies to your ad, ask for their Slashdot ID. That and a Slashdot subscription will give you access to all their comments. A good way to judge the maturity of a candidate is to see how he or she communicates in casual circumstances like a Slashdot discussion.
Seek a reputation for being warm and friendly, and deserve it. If you have a good reputation, eventually your ad budget can be cut to one-tenth of what it was when you were beginning, because people will hear about you from friends.
Be charitable. Try to give every applicant something valuable in return for applying. Useful feedback is a excellent gift. Even a well-written discussion of the job market on your web site is a gift.
Remember, many of the candidates who didn't quite have what you needed this year will have had growthful experiences and will be excellent candidates in future years.
Don't waste anyone's time. Make sure your business processes are efficient.
Joel on Software has two great entries that relate to this topic: The Guerrilla Guide to Interviewing, and Hiring the top 1% (hint: just because you're rejecting 99% of applicants, doesn't mean you're hiring the top 1%, because the top 1% already have great jobs!)
I think that many companies have learned the secret of that last point. The best people have jobs already, for the most part. If you really want exceptional people, don't wait for them to show up at your door with a resume, find out who they are and who they work for, and then hire them away. Offering them more money will not convince them (though obviously you should offer a bit more than they're making now), but the opportunity to have more creative control over their job might.
I could see hiring the ones who read the manuals, but do you really want someone who's willing to mess with possibly mission-critical equipment on which they don't have training, and out of boredom?
Ours, we've shown them the full range of operations in the labs and then given them a few practical hardware and software problems. You know, simple things like factors that might be causing a bad signal in a piece of equipment, or reversing a string in a programming language of their choice.
*wry grin* And our lead engineer always starts off the interviews by asking their opinion on their programming skills. He expected to have to swim through a torrent of bullshit after asking that question, but bizarrely enough, a lot of CS majors have given the answer as "not great." I don't know whether it's honesty or false modesty in those cases.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
Kinda reminds me of the saying "Throw half of the resumes in the bin - that way you avoid employing unlucky people."
Maybe we deserve this world ?