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Can We Trust Google?
theodp writes "Google worries go mainstream this week in TIME's cover story, Can We Trust Google With Our Secrets? Touted as an 'inside look' at how success has changed Larry and Sergey's dream machine, the piece offers some interesting tidbits but in the end is pretty much a softball effort that even toes the mum's-the-word line on the relationship between Larry Page and 'blond, blue-eyed force of nature' Marissa Mayer. Guess it's the least Time Warner could do after pocketing $1B of Google's money."
Do Larry and Sergey always dress in #000000?
You cannot expect the people who hear your call and help to fulfill your request to not make a note of it, and possibly associate your request with your current IP address.
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
Here's everything you can read. Unless you're a subscriber to TIME.
It's time to make some big decisions, so the Google guys are slipping on their white lab coats. After eight years in the spotlight running a company that Wall Street values at more than $100 billion, Google co-founders Sergey Brin and Larry Page are still just in their early 30s and, with the stubbornness of youth, perhaps, and the aura of invincibility, keep doing things their way. So the white coats go on when it's time to approve new products. For a few hours, teams of engineers will come forward with their best ideas, hoping to dazzle the most powerful men...
TIME Magazine subscribers, log in here to continue reading
Personally, if GMail, Google Search, Image Search, and Google Desktop are results of things done their way, I'll take more of it; I use all of those on a regular basis.
Honesty may be the best policy, but by process of elimination, dishonesty is the second best policy.
That is the real question.
After several stories written recently about companies having their customer databases compromised, can we really trust any company to keep our data secure?
I would say no.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
This article is stupid gossip with almost no content. I don't really care who's dating who. I expected an honest article Google's business dealings, not something lifted from Star Magazine about how Brad is mad at Angelina.
AccountKiller
If you google Google you will see a list of critics, detractors and alternatives, after a few pages of Google top ranking itself. While there are some crackpots there is also some pretty interesting stuff; certainly worth the effort.
"Can there be a Klein bottle that is an efficient and effective beer pitcher?"
First of all, I think the link to the article is misleading. Okay, I didn't read all ten pages but did it actually discuss whether or not we can trust Google with our secrets? Or did it actually talk about Google's current trend and their "Do no evil"-vision.
Secondly, why would you trust a third party with your secrets? "Hey John, I got this really secret business plan that must not under any circumstances fall in to the wrong hands. I'll use my web-based free e-mail address to mail it to the necessary people and not use our secure corporate network instead." "Yeah, good idea."
Stupid, I say. If it's a secret, keep it a secret.
The other worrying fact is they are so hugely resourced (and unlike m$ seem to get projects working reasonably well), woe and behold any small developers working on something that is in their "sites" so to speak! Monopolies are not a good thing...
Music, Games, Media Art and Programming
I was wondering if anyone else questions the value of Google as a publicly traded company. As a private company the company could afford to take more idealistic stands and just work through the backlash. Now that they are beholden to a bunch of fickle investors that over emphasize the bottom line. Does "Don't be evil" take a back seat to making profits?
"I myself am made entirely of flaws, stitched together with good intentions."
Private centralized search engines are a threat to free speech if the world becomes too dependant on them. Its not such a big deal now, but I think we need to think about it as sites like Google become integrated into more and more applications, like Firefox.
-The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
Can We Trust Google With Our Secrets?
So far Google has been dealing with two different sets of data through its products:
1. Our (seemingly) anonymous search queeries, through Google search.
2. Our private documents, through Google desktop search.
What do you trust Google with?
So far, they have said no to the US government to keep your #1 private.
If you haven't opted in to #2, then so far you haven't even exposed yourself to the issue of trust with Google beyond 1.
People in China, of course, have a different form of trust relationship with Google for #1.
Those are 3 separate issues.
As a geek I love Wikipedia and how the net has given me information at my fingertips. A few sites have censored themselves, but the Google cache usually reveals this. Very gratifying. But now that Google has become so dominant, and is helping China to censor stuff from their citizens, do they really deserve our trust? Can we really trust ANY online media? If we don't have hardcopies, how can we guarantee that information isn't altered or wiped out for ever? In 1984, there is a whole ministry that works with throwing stuff into "the Memory Hole" that the regime doesn't like. Now it might be possible to do it with a press of a button.
A pretty nasty example of this comes from Time magazine itself:
The whole article I quoted from is here.
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
Giving 100% trust to a company that has a track record of kowtowing to oppressive governments... what can possibly go wrong?
...is no. YOU cannot trust anyone other than YOU with YOUR secrets. Why would we be concerned with whether or not we can trust a commercial organization such as Google with our secrets? If you use Google's tools, as I do, and love them, as I do, don't have an expectation of privacy even if it is stated. If you need privacy, have a separate computer or a separate boot instance on your computer (bootable ISO perhaps) and keep things compartmentalized. Google has some awesome tools for day to day computing and it's silly not to make use of them. The inclusion of your "secrets" is not a requirement nor is it wise.
No.
But why would we need to trust google anyway?
Google does it's job and does it well, but if you need secrecy, you shouldn't trust anybody that doesn't have a personal gain in keeping your secret safe.
If Google were to go bankrupt if it ever revealed my secrets, I'd trust them. But not any sooner.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Better question, who's putting their secrets on web pages that Google can index? These are web sites. They are supposed to be publicly available.
Google searches you.
Just curious, but what exactly are these all so precious secrets that need protecting.
Obviously, if you're living in Area 51 this doesn't apply. But for the vast majority of people what do we really have that is so important.
The big one is of course salary, I know a lot of people who are really secretive about this one. Why? Who cares - it's really only interesting if your raking it in - in which case it's probably published in some kind of company return - or your making the same as any other joe schmo and it's published in some crappy salary review (or close enough).
Second one, deepest emotions/thoughts. Either you've put the on the web through a blog or you've not told anyone - in which case until Google Brain comes out, that's where they're staying.
Third, opinions. Everyone thinks that their opinions are unique. Bad news folks they're not, you share them with millions of others - no one cares.
Fourth, shopping habits. So what if the local supermarket knows I buy bread, cheese and eggs. And if they use that information to sell me stuff I want - well all the better.
I'm sure there a loads more types of secret but I'm just at a loss to know what the big secrets that Google can possibly know that we all need to get upset about the erosion of our civil liberties.
Of course, if you are living in a police state and you risk death if the government figures out your real intentions, then this is obviously important. But what do you care, your living in a police state!
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Not to pick on Billy Boy. I trust no corporation, not even google and their reassuring motto. Ultimately a corporation answers to the shareholders and eventually, regardless of a companies motto, promises, etal ...... the shareholder wins out. It's that simple really. Of course their motto is broad and non-specific enough that it gives them lots of leeway. No evil indeed. From who's point of view, or in what country or.... insert your own.
And so we have some "dirt" about of all things dating. Now that's really hitting the bottom of the barrel here. Of course with such a gossip rag as "Us" its only natural the article be 80% old biddy tongue wagging and 20% anything of substance.
As for Googles decision regarding China. Well lets see here. Your in a foreign country doing business and some are getting wrapped around the axle cause that business follows that countries rules, policies etal? What the hell is the matter with you snot nosed little whiners? What would happen if a foreign company started violating our rules here in the US? I think you knuckleheads need to get a grip on reality. We may not agree with China's policies and I'm sure they take objection to some of ours. But no sovereign nation has the right to tell another how to run their business.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
"In the morning, they noticed a change. The writing on the wall at company headquarters had been changed; it now read:
....to excess'."
'An Animal Shall Do No Evil
The question isn't only whether or not you trust Google. Or any company, for that matter.
...) and the governments of their countries involved, all of them can snoop and pick at your traffic.
There are many companies (ISPs, telcos,...), people (admins,
And here we are, sitting and wondering if you can trust Google with your private information when we're sending it unencrypted across wire that can easily be tapped. It's kinda like wondering if your can trust your steel doors when your walls are made of plywood.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
There are plenty of "non-corporate" entities (in the sense that most people on slashdot use the term "corporate") that are in receipt of your private data and information about your history.
Your dentist's office? Your kids' family-run daycare facility? The obscure regional charity to whom you donate things (like money)? The alumni association that actually directly debits your checking account every quarter? The small professional newsletter that has all of your correspondence? The online forum that seems too small-time to worry about, but which knows every search string you've ever entered while engaged in some flame-war about USB vs. Firewire?
There are plenty of people who through simple incompetence (to say nothing of malice) can use or let go of information about you, your family, and your dealings with the world. "Corporations" actually have more at stake, in terms of their public reputation, stock price, etc., when they make a big mistake. A small-town doctor's office with copies of your checks, links to your prescription and insurance info, etc., is much less likely to be well firewalled or even thinking, beyond locking the closet with the file server, about true security.
To say nothing of the corner restaurant that recently hired some new waiter that's been mag-swiping credit cards after serving you your pasta. Dumb and unethical people operate at all levels of organization, both personally and professionally. I do hosting work for all sorts of individuals, groups, non-profits, and businesses. Believe me when I say that the larger businesses are way more focused on keeping your data battened down than are the others, even though things like messages and credit card numbers flow just as readily into the hands of the smaller, looser, less capable entities every day.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
"Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead." - Benjamin Franklin
Do what is right and let the consequence follow
- I do not trust the US Government.
- The US Government, using the Patriot Act can subopena my secrets from Google without my knowledge or consent.
thereforeBecause chances are in your lifetime, ownership of that data will change hands.
If nothing else, the current management will die.
You cannot see into the future ergo you cannot trust it to act with benevolence toward you.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Hmmm, let's see ... storing all user info in a searchable database on Google's servers (including all documents on users' computers if Google Desktop has its way) is in the best interest of:
a) The users, who pay nothing;
b) The advertisers that have made Google a $150 billion company;
c) The shareholders;
d) The CIA and NSA.
Do the math people.
A-Bomb
Here's what I think is going on. It's not about Google and China or Google and Trust. It's about Google and the US government. Google stood up to the Bush Justice Dept over search records. Today, generic ones, tomorrow maybe more specific ones.
The result? A large stock slide and all this speculation on how Google is "not to be trusted." It smacks of Bush tactics -- turn your enemies strength into a weakness. Trust = mistrust, Bad = good, etc...
Was Time a big supporter of the War in Iraq? Is Time hammering on the latest Bush scandals in anything more than a typical corporate media lipservice kind of way?
And can anyone explain why Google had a sudden, one-time tax hit that no one else predicted? From what I understand, if not for this 40% tax hit in the last quarter, Google would have beat its Wall St. estimates by a penny or two at least. How is it that analysts didn't see the tax hit coming and yet everyone jumped on Google's sudden "big miss?" Is it possible the tax hit was something the IRS "figured out" after a call from the WH?
And what exactly is behind all this "Google is really evil with China" crap? Sure, no one outside the Chinese gov't wants censorship there. But it's China that's censoring. Google has to place physical servers in China to offer any level of quality service due to China's meddling with Google.com and other sites. Servers in China are subject to Chinese law, no matter what anyone might want. So it's a choice between self-censoring by law and crappy service.
For those of you who'd choose "no service" do you practice what you preach? I hope you don't use Chinese products, electronics, clothing. And if the measure of business ethics is whether a given government has done wrong, then why don't you protest all of the other companies that do business with China, or all of the other countries that do wrong, including, at times, the US? Should Google pull out of the US market over Iraq, or secret torture, or unwarranted wiretapping? They tried to stand up to the Bushies, and look what happened so far...
Oh, it's becuase Google said something about evil. Well, I never took "don't be evil" to mean Google had to be the world's Mother Theresa. No one expected them to donate all their profits to starving children, did they? Or to avoid all advertizing because ads are largely misleading (why else would anyone buy this crap?) "Don't be evil," to me, meant "don't be microsoft"--don't screw your competition--play fair and win on the merits. And they've done just that. They label ads, they even label when they're censoring in China, which is about all one could expect.
Bottom line: don't trust Google with your sensitive data. Don't trust anyone. Don't even put it where people can steal or subpoena it. Common sense.
No. They're run by people, and they're unpredictable, and they could one day decide to do something pretty bad.
They could indeed. Given the facts of history of any long-standing company and the shift in management, ownership etc. the policies also change with new owners, new management. Im pretty sure that the original founder of Google is a nice man with a sturdy moral...especially if you study Googles policies and work-ethings for their staff, Ive yet to come across a person working for Google complaining about anything really. So kudos to them - for now!
But all that *WILL* Change, it is a matter of time, Google management will grow tired, at least grow older...new management will come in place - and policies will almost certainly change no matter how warm and promising that handshake where. Who in this greedy world can say no to full and uncensored access to all information about YOU? The truth? No one with a sane business oriented mind would say no. You can use this information to find the so called "perfect" staff...
Nightmare scenario:
Imagine that mr. Curious Geek does something he should NOT do... look at underaged porn. Guess what? That porn site just happens to have Gooooooogle ADS on it, and guess what...that cookie is now effectly brought on to your Gmail account - and you are now in the register as a possible child-offender even if you dont have the slightest interest in such stuff. (Yeah - right...so whyd ya surf there in the first place? No smoke without fire they say). Anyway - every person will get less secure with this, and the freedom to check out the Good, bad and Ugly on the net will endanger your entire future - and Google in bad hands...almost certainly will screw your life.
It could even end up worse...
Imagine further - that we now want a totally clean society, that Googles do-no-evil policy also means less freedom to think, express, learn anything about everything because it will be censored in the fight against *evil*. Yeah...evil knowledge...you and your children are now prohibited from watching all that bad stuff from the real world out there because we want to breed "healthy, morally constructed" perfect citizens (gets scarier). And some of the nazi-clean of you may ask whats wrong with that?
Everything is wrong about that - no one shall or should ever have this much control over anything. You dont know whos good or bad side youll be on in the future, and it should not restrict you to find about the truth such as you yourself will see it, not the way the owners of Google wants you to see it (China-sensored Google anyone?..its the beginning boys!)
Yeah...go ahead...just call me paranoid!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Of course not. Everything you post to /. is recorded somewhere. So is everything you said on Wikipedia and every query you ever made on Google, Yahoo, etc. etc. Not to mention all the ads that trace where you've been. And anyone can correlate all that together. So what are your choices? Turn off your computer? Use something like idzap for all your Internet work? Because privacy is dead. All you have is unimportance. As long as you remain unimportant, then no one will care what you do.
No one but Google hears your request, not everyone in the whole world.
Untrue. Your ISP knows it, some routes know it too.
As succinctly pointed out by another fellow ./ in another thread on google, the media hype may not be 'fair' when it focuses on google but no other company today is waiving a "Do no evil" banner. In the words of one of Yahoo's CEO's: "Well, of course you shouldn't be evil. But you also shouldn't have to brag about it either."
In fact, the very strategy that gained so much trust and support for google may now be backfiring as they try to mediate these conflicts. They need to expand into China, but do you censor? Is that evil? Who assigned Sergey and Page as the moral police? How come they can call the shots on what gets filtered? Couple this with the Patriot Act where google can make all the fuss they want but in the end they'll have to concede and keep mute about it and you get articles like the one we are discussing here.
So personally... No I don't trust google. It's not because of any industry attachments or a failed stock acquisition, its common sense. I'll keep my data on my own hard-drive, I won't index it with a third party tool and I will encrypt my email. Call me paranoid but at least I sleep well.
the indexing of public pages is clearly not the point here