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Future of Maglev in the US Military
The Hippy of Death writes "An article at The Weekly Standard discusses the current maglev research being funded by the US military. From the article: 'But what if you could drastically reduce the amount of noise a ship makes directly at the source? ...Vibration & Sound Solutions Limited suggested placing mag-lev sensors at the source of the electromagnetic fields, such as motors. The idea was to actually levitate the machinery with an array of electromagnets while using a small amount of power.'"
fishman affidavit OTIII The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 5,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet, 178 billion on average) by mass implanting. He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (Incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged". His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc. was placed in the implants. When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert. The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development. One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time. In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful. One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body. One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing. You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some small. Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error. Good luck.
This is all very interesting, but it seems like a roundabout solution. If the problem to begin with is isolating noise at the source and preventing noise / vibrations from getting transferred to the hull of a ship then the ultimate solution would be quiet engines.
I'm no mechanical engineer (rather obviously) but wouldn't this be useful in reducing friction and alleviating part of the need for complex bearings and lube mechanisms?
I'll show you a need for complex ball bearings and lube mechanisms RIGHT HERE!
What happens when the power dies and all of those sitting in seats fall on their asses?
Sounds like Red October.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Why would you want to design a near silent ship when future American wars are being fought against terrorists? The moment you launch a missile or fire a cannon at a target, the terrorists will know that death is flying their way. Money should be spent gathering better and accurate intelligence on terrorist hideouts.
As an engineer and scientist I oftentimes find myself excited about whatever technologies the military is funding. No, I'm not a proponent of destructive technologies -- even though military advancements oftentimes contribute to destruction (a topic for another conversation). But, what really excites me is the benefit to humanity that stems from such research.
While applying magnetic levitation technologies to engines is a rather roundabout solution, the research will improve humanities knowledge of such technologies in general, potentially expediting the timeframe in which you and I can reap the benefits. Who knows what the future will be? Perhaps we will see MagLev public transportation soon? Or perhaps air travel will be much quieter (now that would be enjoyable)... nevertheless research into the field is necessary.
One interesting note is that MagLev technologies are NOT that difficult to implement. It's really just a control system of an electromagnetic field. OK, so it is difficult, but its nothing new. What advancements we really NEED have to do with:
1.) Efficiency. Superconductivity will reduce the overall power / energy demands of the system.
2.) Reliability. What happens when the power goes out? Does the train / engine / whatever just fall to the ground? This is a BIG consideration.
3.) Safety. Does exposure to such large EM fields cause cancer?
4.) etc.
Despite all of the these concerns I am REALLY excited that this type of research is getting funding... at the very least it is a very practical application!
Well, thats enough for now.
Matthew Wong
http://www.themindofmatthew.com
In the game, it's a constant battle. Quieter engines on one side, and better sensors on the other.
The submitter didn't even get to the second page.
This technology was originally designed to dampen mechanical vibration in ships like the submitter said, but the Navy wasn't interested (probably because while that would be useful in a cold war, it's not too helpful in the war on terror).
What they're doing now, is using to cushion seats. The article claims some of the speedier boats they use to put marines ashore can pull 8Gs hopping over waves. So they use this technology along with wave height sensors and a fast processor to reduce it to 2-3Gs. Although this sounds new, it's basically the same technique as those active noise cancellation headphones only for lower frequencies and higher amplitudes.
Then the company is trying to expand by putting this into other vehicles like humvees and helicopters. (why in a helicopter?)
I'm shocked that slashdot is linking to The Weekly Standard, the official journal of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. How are they supposed to give us our secret orders and talking points now that the socialist hordes of Slashdot have discovered them?
But seriously, ya guys should be reading them whether you agree or disagree with the policies they advocate because they are influencial in Republican politics. Much like I follow the NYT editorial page and the network tv sunday morning yak-yak shows, because they (and now daily kos) drive the Democrats' talking points and policy positions.
Now ontopic. Wow, they sound like they plan to actually deploy this stuff. Talk about kicking the tech advantage up a notch.
Democrat delenda est
The problem of using Maglev on the motors is that the torque that is generated. It isn't as simple as lifting the weight of several tonnes but also apply the rotational torque as well (normally this is less that the wieght of the motor for conventional drives but high power units with hydrogen gas cooling [best thermal conductivity] could increase this force to multiples of the static wieght).
I'm sure glad we live in country that is fiscally responsible. We've got our debt down to nine trillion, so it really was time to start a few wars and spend half a trillion dollars a year on our military. Who needs an education or the stabilization of developing countries through economic development when we can have maglev engines and VTOL projects that literally waste billions of dollars?
President's Day really got me thinking of how lucky I am to live in America. I mean, only communists forcibly take money away from their citizens in order to increase their own power, domestically and abroad. And, if we lived in a communist country, just doing something like reading a book or saying we should overthrow the government would warrant an interview from the police! They can even spy on their own citizens in secret! And, in communist countries, they can throw you in jail for no reason, and you don't get a lawyer or anything! Lincoln would be so, so proud.
"As an engineer and scientist I oftentimes find myself excited about whatever technologies the military is funding. No, I'm not a proponent of destructive technologies -- even though military advancements oftentimes contribute to destruction (a topic for another conversation). But, what really excites me is the benefit to humanity that stems from such research. "
So which advances mankind further and faster? The path of destruction, or the path of construction?
I propose that they build a chair out of Bismuth. Diamagnetism will solve all of our problems.
(I'm kidding, obviously.)
Cohen, in a phone interview, explained how the Navy's interest in MagLev originated with the need for silencing machinery aboard ships. "Throughout history," he said, "we had used rubber mounts" to reduce noise and vibration. "What all navies have traditionally done is put heavy, large cables all around the perimeter of the ship. We then pass electric currents through them to try and nullify the electromagnetic feature of the steel hulls."
The first part, the problem, is about noise and vibration. The second part, the solution, is about using electric currents to nullify electromagnetics... Does this make sense to anyone else?
Let's get the Maglev show out of the barn and on the road. Maglev and other "[e]lectromagnetic suspension for trains is an important technology because it allows very high-speed trains. High-speed trains make railroad travel a very competitive alternate to road and air travel." From, "Solutions for the Energy Crises in this Union - Part 1: Alternate Energy and Conservation". This article also discusses the importance of making all trains electric-powered and generating the electricity for the trains from water, wind, and solar power.
In the ocean there are two types of vessels. Submarines and targets.
Too lazy to create a sig...
You are so brave , the combined US spending of the US miliatry exceeds that of the spending of the next top 30 nations, I guess killing is your deal. How about the International Law and human rights, or just how about the truth (oh no that would mean no more killing).
.. tried it lately.. or just calling your self brave by killing people who have nothing to do with anything with missile (who is the terrorist).
How about hand to hand combat
Spreading lies through death, wake up forum.
What is most interesting about this is the flow on effect this technology will have in civilian applications. The military get to do the hard yards, reap the first fruits and eventually the tech will become more price realistic and available for civilian use- safer airliners, trains, cars and so on. Maglev tech has been promised for years, now it looks like it will get some time in the sun.
...how can we use this to kill Muslims?
Whether I people have the same opinions or not that you do, they don't care - Slashdot is a refuge from the rest of the politically biased world, where people can just read about tech or whatever else Slashdot has (granted it does have a politics section, but thats where these kinds of things go)...
It's for static field configurations, in contrast to the active controls this company seems to be using.
I do the same thing with a ventilation fan in my attic. When I mounted it directly to the truss, I could hear a vibration in the walls of my house, so I unbolted it and let it hang from some plastic fastener. Works like a charm to eliminate the noise. By your standards, I aught to have bought a more expensive fan with less vibration, which probably wouldn't have been as quiet.
Anybody read Michal Marshall Smith's Only Forward?
Here you have both industrial strength and living room versions of devices to bend gravity, called GravaBendars (TM). Those for the home runs on batteries.
From the book: "Now, you haven't seen a messed up room, until you've been in one where the GravaBenda (TM) has failed twice, in opposite directions.
Maybe this research in MagLev tech, military as it is, can somehow benefit the MagLev train development in the U. S. Wouldn't it be nice to travel between LA and NY on a train that "floats" at 500 km/hr, as demonstrated in this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=292640039 6387878713) shot by some guy who rode on a Japanese MagLev.
Sun and Fun
The Defense Department spends TONS of money on military projects that have little relevance in the war on terror. Military spending is the #1 corporate subsidy that no one calls a subsidy. I'm sure a few Senators' districts get some payola out of it too.
War never solved anything. Every war has its roots in previous hostility and violence and disrespect for others. World War II for instance, was largely a result of World War 1. Also, it can be argued that it was predicted over a hundred years before, because of other actions at that time (start reading on wikipedia if you want to know more on this).
It's time we started working towards peace rather than war.
Probably because you haven't read TFA. It is about reducing shock in fast coast patrol vessels, helicopters and humvees. The noiseless ship was a previous incarnation of this idea, but that was scrapped in the past.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
Our nuclear subs already produce enough electricity to light a small city, a little extra juice to power mag lev supports would probably be worth the extra turns on the turbines and cooling pumps. There would, of course, need to be a back-up system to support the equipment should the system fail or the sub loose power (also while the sub is in dock and the reactor is "idle")
No one of consequence
Einstein had a few things to say along the same lines, for example, when we were developing nukes. There was also a good line in Jurassic Park that encapsulated this idea well, referring to recreating dinosaurs of course, that went something like, "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should."
This idea is also at the center of the stem cell and cloning debates.
If Slashdot really is "news for nerds, stuff that matters," then we nerds should be intelligent enough to discuss technology in its full human context, not just on the lab table in our ivory towers of idealism and naivity. I think most of us here are smart enough not to have to bury our heads in the sand.
A-Bomb
He was talking about mobile SAM's- the ones used by small guerrila armies, not the large fixed ones used for national defense. His point is that the weapons we build are being built for the wrong kind of war.
on to gravitational shields!
It's pretty amazing we can shoot missiles and bombs with pinpoint accuracy. But couldn't we use this technology to shoot FOOD to HUNGRY people?
Strap yourself into a metal cage and then drop the metal cage from an altitude of about 50 meters (low enough to negate any significant wind resistance) and see how you feel upon landing. Thats basicly how helicopter pilots feel upon crash landing, helicopters don't exactly come equiped with airbags or crash absorbant materials.
Vibration will still exist, as the forces that keep the motor elevated will also push the sub, or what other devices. The sound and smaller vibrations might be dampened too. But what about the electrical hum of those magnets? If you stand anywhere near a large transformer you can hear its 50Hz beauty (here in europe). I've worked with large motors before and to use maglev's to remove vibrations won't really happen. What about supplying power to a motor that can move under differing loads of torque? Or about very large inductive currents being generated by the maglev's electric field in the coil windings???
Shrink the technology down so the "track" is just a couple of feet long. Increase the velocity of objects placed on it and you could have a basic low tech railgun.
Not sure if a hand held version would be feasible with current batteries though.
Uncle Sam would be ashamed. What would the U.S Navy be without the sheer atmosphere of it's arrival?
It's all about NOISE, man. You can't convincingly attack and occupy a country against international law unless you're menacing enough to do it.
Plus, the world will think our army is gay. We all read the recent soldier porno story...where are we headed here?
"Stealth" is a buzzword these days, but the reality is decoys. Radar and other detection systems work excellently when shooting down flying things.
A 4 million dollar missile wasting itself on an air-launched, $5000 decoy is a good investment. That is one way the US defeated the Iraqi air defense. Pretty easy, actually, if you think about it.
The Western way of warfare is rediculously techno-centric and full of chest beating machoness. It is stupid and gets our young men killed. You'll notice that we have constantly received an ass kicking by the sneaky modern day hashashins of the middle east and central asia. The vietcong bush ninjas of yesteryear also showed us the greatness of silenct deceptive warfare.
In a bar fight analogy. The western way is the loud boisterous drunk who tells anyone and everyone how he would kick their ass in the most loudest possible fashion. Our enemies are the sober guy in the dark corner, who the loud idiot has slighted earlier on in the night. That same sober guy will leave a tiny bit earlier than said drunk to launch an ambush from an alley way with a baseball bat or knife on the arrogant loud fool on his way home.
I'd bet on the silent unassuming type than Mr arrogant Noise it a combat situation.
It's bouncing around a lot. We don't see this 'in the news' because image stabilization is used with TeeVee cameras and other optics. Image stabilization does not work with gun sights. Sure, the whole weapons platform could be stabilized, but imagine all the hydraulics, gimbal mounts, servo-motors, etc. Lots of weight for a Helicopter.
I suppose I came a little bit strong there, I dont know. I know slashdot is also meant for the moral side of technology, such as you said, Bombula, stem cell research and things like that, I was simply trying to save him/her from making future irrelevant posts causing him/her to be flamed on to a crispy chicken point about "great they just spent another few billion when they coulda fed the homeless" or any post of the sort criticizing the government about its "choice of spending" that always pop up in something like this submission...
MagLev is interesting technology. It has been proven (at least mostly viable) many times over with things like trains. I think it is actually a pretty good idea for the military to see if it fits in the movement of machines and heavy loads.
An advantage of the military trying to make something work long-term and heavy-duty-scale is that the developments for the military could probably trickle down to use in civilian life. Many technologies have taken just such a development path. Especially those where business had not wanted to fund research and development as a private project - but was happy to do so for the military. Maybe they'll finally come up with those flying/floating cars I was promised in the 60s?
A Passionate Independent Musician
Being the world's greatest military power, wouldn't it make more sense to invest in loudspeakers?
You fools, the military ALREADY has this kind of technology! DON'T BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAY.
OK, great you now have seats that mitigate impact and motors that aren't really attached to the hull... a couple of questions:
1) I've never been in combat, but I'd expect that damage enough to cause power failure is rather common. With everything else, it's 'repair the damage and start her up again'. With motors mounted on 'maglev' shocks, what happens if you don't have the supplemental power to start with?
2) IMO one of the most impressive things about the modern military is their sensor suites at all levels from the massive carrier group to the individual soldier? How will these be affected by maglev systems in everything? How about Joe Soldier's mark 1 compass?
3) the flip side of #3, I'd expect that you're just giving enemy targeting systems one more 'thing' to aim at; in fact I find it hard to believe that these relatively high-power systems wouldn't make 'stealthing' the using vehicle nearly impossible?
-Styopa
Your ridiculous attempt at history revision surprises me — I thought, this Soviet lie fooled no one at all.
You may argue, that our methods of setting up preferred governments weren't much different, but our results speak for themselves. Places like Puerto Rico, South Korea, or even Chile (boo-Pinochet-boo!) are the regional champions and the envy of those of their neighbors, where the Commie rhethorics prevailed.
From its beginning USSR was unabashed about "exporting revolution". Fortunately for the rest of the world, the US was there to contain it.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
If you wish to look at it "objectively", you'll have to say: "USA is trying to export democracy. USSR was preventing that".
To equate the two, you must equate the Soviet regime with ours. I have seen fools (most of them never exposed to one or the other) trying to do that, so I'll just point you at the objective facts: forget the evil oppressiveness of all Communist rulers and simply look at the results. However much you may hate "corporations", examples like
- Finland vs. Estonia
- South vs. North Korea
- Chile vs. Argentina
- West vs. East Germany
- Thailand vs. Cambodia
speak one tune: what USSR tried spread was far worse, than what America was protecting.It really is black-and-white, and there are no "shades of grey" about it: USSR — bad; USA — good.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Let's compare old technology (rubber shock absorbing mounts) with new (active maglev shock suppressors):
Old - cheap, zero power requirement, silent, no additional support/control systems needed, simple maintenance by minimally skilled techs, pretty effective
New - expensive, lots of power required, non-silent, lots of additional support/control systems needed, complex maintenance by highly skilled techs, super-duper-extra effective (as soon as they get it to work, which will be Real Soon Now)
All of this... for a seat cushion? For years, I've been hearing about active controls in shock absorbers using electrorheological or magnetorheological fluids in place of regular fluid or gas filled shock absorbers. These would be a lot more straighforward than maglev shock suppressors, but where are they?
The fact is, the control systems still are too expensive and unresponsive, and don't offer any significant benefit over traditional shock absorbing systems. The power requirements for a full-on maglev systems would be ridiculous.
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
In the White House? One's amBushing you right now as we speak!
I would see this technology as helpful if it can be employed without the few serious consequences I imagine cropping up.
1. New diesel attack subs CAN BE quieter than nuclear boats, we want any edge we can get over that particular threat.
2. Machinery noise transmitted to the hull is a huge noise problem, some Chinese boats can be tracked out beyond belief due to their sloppy engineering.
3. (Con) Russians have a way better Magnetic Anomaly Detection system than our own maritime patrol craft, anything we use MUST NOT increase our magnetic signature. Everything from Mines and Torpedoes to you-name-it sub hunters (ships, planes, etc) employ magnetic sensors for detection. Hell, we use magnetic sensors for navigation even. These systems must not interfere with other on-board systems.
4. (Con) When an attack sub is patrolling in a hostile area (read, inside their territorial waters...) they typically will be in a quiet condition based on threat, and lots of gear gets powered off except for vital equipment. I would hope only vital equipment gets this treatment. Changing something like this on/off would likely create a lot of noise as the rig sets down whatever is being levitated..I would assume there would be a lot of engineering done to have a back-up suspension support for anything when the power is off.
5. (Con) Again I'll mention sensors. This stuff could make us a HUGE beacon to magnetic sensors...Mines and Torpedoes are a concern for me...Magnetic silencing by deperming and such while not extremely expensive, it can be an issue of time to complete on a regular basis.
Overall I suppose its a loss/gain situation...I don't think it would be adopted for sub's if it cuts acoustic signatures only to increase magnetic signatures, but if they work out those issues...who knows. I think we're getting desperate in overcomming diesel threats.
It has so far been impossible to build an engine that makes many thousands of horsepower but not noise.
The best current solutions are gas turbines combined with direct drive electric motors. The gas turbines are mounted of "rafts" that are isolated from the hull.
Your ultimate solution is about as easy as the ultimate solution for an auto engine. One that runs for ever and uses smog for fuel while exhausting clean air. Yea it would great solution now tell me how to do it.
On potential solution for ships would be fuel cells if you could get the power density up to what a gas turbine offers.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
What does war have to do with making quiet engines?
Simple: It's easier to hide if you're quiet.
Many of the military forces on our planet now have the capability to destroy any vessel or vehicle. The difficult part is locating them closely enough to hit them before being detected and destroyed themselves.
When you're fighting sonar, this would allow a vessel to maintain greater speed for less noise, improving their chances for survival.
I don't read AC A human right
I think you're a little wide of the mark there...
Many people who work in the tech industry in europe will have a very high level of spoken and written English, and it will probably be the language they have to use at work.
Not everyone on this planet is limited to being fluent in just one language.
FTA: "What all navies have traditionally done is put heavy, large cables all around the perimeter of the ship. We then pass electric currents through them to try and nullify the electromagnetic feature of the steel hulls."
I think the author used this quote out of place here. The process he is describing is used to degauss the ship to remove (or at least to alter) its magnetic signature. It has nothing to do with accoustical signature reduction, which seems to be the focus of the first part of the article.
Both accoustical and magnetic signature reduction are of interest to a navy as they can be both used to identify not only the class of ship, but the actual ship itself. They are very different beasts though.
Bose (usually known for their speakers and audio systems) has been developing similar technology for replacing suspensions in cars...
There are lots of articles about this, including here and here.
They're useful in situations where lubrication is difficult or the lubricant has to be sealed away from the environment. Clean rooms, vacuum systems, food and drug processing, cyrogenics, and pressurized gases qualify. They're also useful for large diameter bearings.
These things look and work much like an electric motor. They're not that exotic.
if this is referring to suspending submarine engines via a magnetic field, did it ever occur to them that maybe the dirty commies would just break out their compass and find them by their massive magnetic field? If not, then nevermind! :D
http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_P AGE_EVENT&url=/learning/project_sound/bose_suspens ion.jsp&ck=0 Is a similar idea from bose, but improved suspensions, with lower road noise, rather than military apps.
I'm flatulant in many lagranges.
I drank what? -- Socrates
GNAA FO LIFF
There's that pesky "for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction" rule. If you levitate a vibrating object, true, the object's inertia may help to buffer the vibration, and the lack of physical contact will certainly be a benefit, but in the end, the vibrating object will create a disturbance in the magnetic field that is levitating it, which will in turn cause the maglev unit itself to vibrate. Isn't this going to a lot of work for a very minor benefit?
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
There is nothing new here. Magnetic Bearings have been in use for decades now on all sorts of rotating equipment. Levitate a spinning shaft, control the movement of the shaft and therefore the physical vibrations. Go check out www.skfmagneticbearings.com, or www.s2m.fr . The US even has schools specializing in these systems, check out www.virginia.edu/romac/, www.mengr.tamu.edu/People/facultyinfo.asp?LastName =Palazzolo.
Just musing about stabilization on gun sights; why not?
So you presently have this image of the "cross hair" stable and all other information [the target & surroundings] jumping around. Wouldn't it be more usable to have a stable scene [smoothly scrolling] with the [more than normally] prominent cross hair doing the jumping around [unstabilized obviously].
This would allow better pattern recognition in the way the barrel is actually veering, hence better information to enable the shooter in controlling it [by hand].
Why not?
No. You can't look at my Sig; it's mine, and I'm not showing you.