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Vodafone Quitting Japan
dimension6 writes "Reuters is reporting that Vodafone, the world's largest mobile phone operator, is quitting business in Japan. Vodafone has been having a difficult time since they entered the Japanese market, a result of many blunders such as introducing Nokia brick phones where flip-phones are the norm and being slow to adopt 3G technology widely used by its competitors. Vodafone claimed that being part of the most advanced mobile phone market helped boost their sales elsewhere, but few Japanese-market phones have made it to other countries. The Japanese Vodafone division is likely to be bought by Softbank, the largest ISP in Japan."
They recently decided to pull out of Sweden too. Margins have become razor thin after voice prices fell to a few cents per minute (/$).
Isn't this a general trend? Western companies have a hard time starting up over in Asia. KFC/Nike/etc have just begun to crack the Chinese markets, so it's no surprise (to me) that other companies have had trouble in Japan.
Take Microsoft and the Xbox for example. Playstation has had a good reception outside of Japan, but not vice versa.
I'll subscribe to Slashdot when I see a month without a dupe, a typo, or an article the "editors" didn't read.
Vodaphone had some real chutzpah, to think they could beat the Japanese on their home turf, in a gadget-oriented market.
Only Apple has done that in recent memory, and they are hardly "normal".
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
Even though Japan has slowly been losing ground as one of the leading business destinations (mostly to China, Korea, and India), it is still in the top tier of the electronics world, as well as in the banking world. It is unfortunate that business travellers who may have signed up with Vodafone to enjoy guaranteed global access to its networks is now going to lose that guarantee in Japan.
Vodafone wasn't really making much headway in Japan anyway. Large, clumsy phones designed for Europeans simply don't jive with the small, sleek, feature-packed phones that typify the phones of other Japanese operators.
For those with Japanese language skill.
See Slashdot Japan article
introducing Nokia brick phones where flip-phones are the norm
I believe the term is "candybar" phones. Bricks are from the early 90's. Oh, and while I'm getting all technical on the names, the summary more than likely refers to "clamshell" phones, where the flip portion opens on the top like a clamshell. A "flip" phone is a phone where the mouthpiece flips down, like the oldschool motorola's from the mid 90's.
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Just about all Japanese handset makers are quitting the European market because their small, sleek, feature-packed phones designed for Japanese customers don't jive with the large, clumsy phones that typify the phones of European manufacturers. (Except Sony-Ericsson which seems to still have a finger in the European pie.)
Nokia mobiles are the most popular, abeit cheapest mobiles available in the Western market.
Its no suprise that the Japanese market has rejected their crackpot mobiles.
I have been free from a Nokia for the past 2 years and absolutely love it.
Why is there a vs at all? Flip phones might prevent accidental dialling & scratches but they consume more volume than the equivalent "brick" phone and often have extra protusions. I don't see why you'd fail for promoting one over the other. I don't see that Vodafone would promote one over the other. Their range in other countries includes flip phones and brick phones so its up to the consumer to pick.
Japanese mobile tech is at least 3 years ahead of everyone else. Vodafone just didn't get it.
:)
I had a beautiful clamshell 3G set light as a feather with media player, camera and imode 3-4 years ago. Snapping a picture of myself eating udon and mailing it to friends and family back then got me alot of ooos and ahhs
Vodafone coming to market with the most ugly brick phones ever, the likes which we've never seen before in Japan, didn't help.
Then there was them spending time and money on the pre-paid market. Basically, there is no pre-paid market there and there's a reason for that, nobody wants one. They came in thinking small, gunning for the niche market.
Then there was the reputation of the network. Vodaphone bought out an old network, can't remember the name, but it was on the brink of going bust because the quality sucked major. People knew Vodaphone as the one that bought out the sucky network.
Vodafone+Yahoo = Voodoo! [from slashdot.jp site]
Amazing... Over there they moderate each other up for different, yet equally stupid jokes.
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
The unfortunate thing about doing business is that companies have to pay attention to a group of people we will call "customers." These "customers" tend to have preferences. Their preferences are often irrational, yet the poor companies have to pay attention especially if they face "competition." The "customers" in Japan have a strong preference for clamshell phones. Vodaphone did not pay attention to their "customers" so they did not have enough.(That and the Japanese market is notoriously hard to break in to, but that is a different conversation.)
to better themselves. In terms of gadgets, Japan is a tough market with lots of competitors, but like fighting any tough opponent, it would have made them better.
2 006/gb20060302_547553.htm?campaign_id=topStories_s si_5
It looks like they kept trying to push themselves onto the Japanese instead of adapting themselves, what with not adopting 3G and using a brickphone profile for their phones. How dumb is that? Was it a result of purely top-down leadership without some bottom-up feedback? I don't know but it looks that way if they are pulling out of Sweden too. Many companies try to do that when entering a foreign market, but they are usually spanked early on for their mistakes. I believe McDonalds serves lamb in India and wherever they go conform their menu to the locality.
But the idea that an American company can't do well in Japan is false, look at Apple:
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/mar
I currently live in Japan and use Vodafone. It seems to me that they hold over a 30% market share among the hundred-odd phone numbers in my cell. In general, the four major companies (docomo at the high end, vodafone and au in the middle, tsuka at the bottom) seem about equally popular.
I don't think this sale is due to failure. Rather, it is just one business selling off a decent little piece to another corporation who wants it more. It happens all the time.
Btw, to whoever said "Japanese cells are 3 years ahead of everyone else", I would respectfully disagree. I'd rather have an American cell. Why? Because I hardly ever use the billion and one stupid bells and whistles in my Japanese phone. What I want to do is be able to talk on my cell phone, which is absurdly expensive in Japan. For nearly $40/month, you only get ninety minutes (and your billion and two text messages and emails eat into this time)! Nor do I find the reception better in Japan than in comparable areas of the US. Reception here is near universal in the major cities unless you are underground, gets a little spotty as you move into the burbs (especially indoors), and fails quite often in the countryside unless you happen to be at a high elevation. Same is true in the states, except we have less area that is city and more that is burb and countryside.
Japanese cells aren't better. Rather, Japanese spend lots more money on them and buy all the bells and whistles that 90% of Western users just don't care about.
Quite an interesting and unexpected turn of events...
Vodafone has been going steadily downhill since their foray in to the market here. Their entry point was by buying out J-Phone and rebranding it as Vodafone K.K.. J-Phone was originally a division of JR, the national rail company. An interesting side effect of their original ownership was that in the early days of cell-access their networks first expanded along the railway networks giving them quite effective penetration even though their coverage was in fact quite spotty. J-Phone never quite reached the market-size of DoCoMo (the cellular division of NTT - the national telco), but was effectively their main competition with a reputation for innovation, which had cornered the younger "cooler" demographic. They were one of the first here to provide Java enabled phones and as the original originators of the camera-phone they have made their mark worldwide. In fact one of the last phones they brought to market before the buyout was the first phone to crack the 1 megapixel mark.
No wonder Vodaphone wanted a piece.
Some vodaphone insiders here have speculated that the main reason for the company's gradual descent has been the resistance of "old-Japan" upper management to outside pressures, almost more on principle than on particular merit, although some of those outside ideas have seemed to lack local market knowledge, amongst other things. Vodafone stagnated at a crucial point unfortunately - they were technologically ahead of the pack - their stall allowed competitors to take up the slack and old behemoth Docomo to pull ahead as many customers returned to DoCoMo for the newest gimmicks while vodaphone coasted...
Its not hard to still spot J-phone branded phones around which speaks volumes about the strength of the original company in this "new and shiny" crazed market. I actually think this is a good thing - if Vodafone was only as commited as a three year ownership and doesn't have the kahoonas to turn things around, its only their loss. Hopefully this is the begining of a return to their former glory and I'll finally be able to rid myself of this stupid AU phone...
Umm, your 90 minutes are OUTGOING CALLS ONLY.
You can receive as many calls as you want for just your monthly fee. No minute charges for incomming, just outgoing. The Japanese plan is better if the majority of your calls are incomming. The only time it is expensive is if you make calls to a bunch of people.
Personally, I like the prepaid plans for my kids. Buy one card and the phone is active for six months. They can't make calls but they can receive calls for six months. Then just recharge it every six months with the cheapest card.
While I don't doubt there are a lot of you world wide it is not a market a vodaphone could give a shit about.
Everything you say is confirming that the Japanese do not have the same tastes as westerners. You are a perfect vodaphone customer, the japanese are not.
Vodafone forgot to adapt and are now bowing out to save further problems while they can still recoop their money. It is nothing new. Other western attempts in forms of partnerships have also failed. Japan != the west and the west != Japan. Just look at the success by KPN (dutch telecom who partned with docomo(?)) in bringing iMode to Holland.
It ain't exactly running wild because they totally screwed it up. The west is used to the freedom of the real internet so KNP answered by giving it the limited iMode and then barely filling it with anything worthwhile. People try it, find nothing they like/want/need and then never use it again.
Doing business internationally is very hard. Frankly I am not suprised that western telecoms have a hard time in japan. Japan seems to be a bit of a go getter in mobile communications while the european telecoms tend to be dinosaurs who think a 10 year planning phase is moving dangerously fast.
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Follows the Japan trend of department stores. In any given location there will be three chains: The winner, the runner up, and the pitiful loser. Vodaphone is giving up too soon, but I'm sure glad to hear this. I almost got my business partner to sign up with me for new vodaphone phones because of an unlimited $3/month for unlimited dialing! And I'm paying $200 in mobile phone bills. I also almost bought a phone from them that could work in the U.S. too. Wanted it that day for a trip. But no, you have to go to another store to get the free chip put in, and the lines were too long so I couldn't buy it. Vodaphone didn't have what it took, whereas Softbank will probably do something intelligent with them. It was a brief flash in the pan, good riddance!
Vodafone also have a stake in a CDMA network in the US. How long before they divest that as well? When they are backing 3GSM in the rest of the world it seems odd to have a stake in CDMA in the US.
My wife got a Vodafone keitai here in Japan. While it's one of the cool folding phones, Vodafone Japan seems to have the Canadian/American disease of locking down all the cool hardware features. They've made it so it's impossible to transfer files with Bluetooth, for example -- even though the phone is a full Bluetooth device with all the file transfer protocols. Also, battery life is pretty bad.
He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
I live in Japan too. The subscription base in Japan is far from equal. As of end of Jan, Vodafone has 16.7%, AU including Tu-ka 27.8% and the rest 55.9%. Check this site.
http://www.wirelesswatch.jp/index.php
Vodafone is tryig to force the western business model in Japan and they have failied quite badly. The first batch of 3G phones that it introduced were taken from the Western world (Nokia 6650, SE V800, 2 models from Motorola, etc). That was the month they had the worst loss of customers (abt 60,000). Unfortuntely, the Japanese market user base is driven by handsets. If you do not have a good line up, they will be gone the next month. Japanese users are not afraid to change numbers (number portability will come later this year).
You are a typical Vodafone customers whose main use of mobile phone is voice. Japanese mobile martket have moved pass the voice stage where income from data and other broadband services are higher then voice. Vodafone Live! is not as good compared to i-mode and ezweb. They lost a lot of high ARPU customers to the other 2 mobile operators. It is hard for Vodafone to operate successfully in Japan with their global business model that they try to apply to all markets. Top management has changed 2 times last year. They are now having some limited recovery after re-intruducing Japanese specific handsets from Sharp and Toshiba. Expats like yourself are too small in numbers to sustain Vodafone in Japan.
Vodafone+Yahoo = Yodafone
"6EQUJ5"
Not to worry. You can still use your 3G phone in Japan with Docomo. Docomo started roaming agreement with many countries in the world.
"I wish I knew how to quit you, Japan."
Err, wait. Never mind...
-MJ
Well, in my Vodafone cell here, I think about half of the numbers are Vodafone. However, and this is something I must stress, this half is comprised exclusively of foreigners. Down here, anyway (in the outer edges of Kansai), Vodafone does great business with foreigners, and can't come close to DoCoMo or even au when it comes to the Japanese.
And of course it's a personal preference, but I find the functionality of the free or nearly-free phones I've gotten here to far exceed that of the phones my relatives in the States have paid a hundred or two hundred dollars for. A lot of that is due to the high quality cameras included (my very cheap phone has a 2 Megapixel camera and TV and video functionality), versus comparable things in the states.
On a personal note, I think this will be a great chance to change to DoCoMo, the company I really should have been with since the beginning.
Lastly, does anyone have any good info on the state J-phone was in and if Vodaphone's really to blame?
Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.
Top management has changed 2 times last year. They are now having some limited recovery after re-intruducing Japanese specific handsets from Sharp and Toshiba. Expats like yourself are too small in numbers to sustain Vodafone in Japan.
Actually that seems to be pretty normal for Vodafone, the internationl branch where I used to work had three changes of management in three years and, according to my former co-workers, they are about to move into the fourth year with a fresh cycle of reorganizations and layoffs (the fifth one). This is pretty nerve racking for the employees but at least the head hunters are having an easy time poaching unhappy Vodafone employees. Another thing is that.... well at least in our branch, it was something of a struggle for management to get permisison from HQ to adapt to the peculiarities of our individual markets. While I was there they kept wanting to apply a standard 'marketing template' onto our market and ignore tha fact that what sells in the UK, Germany and France does not necessarily sell elsewhere, even if that elsewhere is a market in Europe.
A couple of years ago I ran into a traveler that had come from Japan and he had a docomo phone in Perth. I rigged up something to recharge it so he could get some numbers out of it and we decided to make a call since it was showing that it was getting a signal. After entering the number, we got a message in Japanese saying that the service wasn't connected or some such thing. I figure that someone was running a docomo micro-cell as a demo or that the message was recored on the phone. Does anyone else have any ideas what was going on?
My phone book is mostly to Japanese, and perhaps one in twenty have a Vodaphone account. I think foreigners are overrepresented, in part because they can easily roam with Vodaphone in other countries.
Oh, and that spotty reception of yours could be due to it being Vodaphone too - one of the major (perceived, perhaps real) weaknesses is supposed to be their scanty coverage compared to their competition.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
I most certainly hope that Vodafone doesn't quit right now. Their biggest advantage is that they are attracting sales from people who want to unlock their phones to use in America/Asia/Europe/wherever else besides Japan and from foreigners in Japan. If a domestic company takes over, we might not see phones that can be unlocked in America (see DoCoMo's only 3G/GSM/GPRS phone) anymore, which means a loss in handset sales, and a drop in subscriptions from foreigners. A friend of mine from Nara says that she and her company use Vodafone, and while that may be personal narrative, she sounded genuinely satisfied with it, and Vodafone will be my next service provider as soon as I move out of China to Japan. That, or someone finds out a way to unlock a DoCoMo 3G phone to at least use in UMTS-enabled areas like Hong Kong. Disclaimer- it's late in China where I'm posting from, so this might not be entirely coherent, but I try.
OSx86 FTW
Cred and disclaimer - I've lived in Tokyo for the last five years. Japanese phones are generally prettier, faster, and more stable than Euro/American phones. Those same phones are also extremely stupid, as opposed to smart, as in "smart phone." I am not a keitai expert and may be wrong but I believe that Vodafone Japan was the first to introduce a smart type phone with the Nokia 6210 (702NK). It is a brick and the screen is ugly, but it runs an OS that has a LOT of software available for it. This was quite a change from the proprietary, useless, custom OS' installed by everyone else. The Nokia 6210, despite its flaws, seemed to be a pretty big hit. In fact, about a year later, Willcom (which has some connection to Docomo, I think) introduced that Sharp PDA/smartphone running Windows Mobile(model number escapes me). And now, in the second half of 2006, Docomo Japan is finally going to bring out a smart phone running Windows Mobile. And as someone who likes to have the option of doing more than on thing with device, I am happy to see it and will likely buy one. Vodafone's move with the 6210 was likely desparate (they've had service issues) but I am glad they made the move and paved the way for alternate models to finally be made available in a very stagnant phone market.
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That it was easy to be Big In Japan!
South Korea is another country where you'll find all the latest phones.
w00t
What, they charge you for ingoing calls? What kind of ass-backwards market do you live in and why are people accepting being double-billed like that?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
DoCoMo has a loyal and strong customer base. Despite being more expensive than the other two networks, it is popular amongst the middle-aged and business customers who rarely switch networks. Furthermore these customers are less likely to upgrade their handsets on a regular basis, bringing a long-term return on the heavily subsidised phone the customer bought way back when. DoCoMo don't need to work to hard to maintain their position.
KDDI (AU) on the other hand has gone from arguably being the third-best service offering to the biggest innovator in the space of just a few years. AU has introduced attractive service plans, and intelligently captured a large share of the student market by offering an across the board 50% discount to anyone in full time education. This has reaped dividends several years later as those students are now graduating and converting to full price customers. Additionally they have invested very heavily in their 3G network, with a significantly higher proportion of their customers transferring to 3G services than either of their competitors. My own AU phone is capable of data transfer of 2.4Mbps (faster than most peoples landline based broadband in a lot of countries!) The other two networks are way behind on this count. AU has also capitalized on the i-pod craze by making virtually all handsets mp3 capable and introducing their own mobile version of i-tunes, which has access to a lot of Japanese artists unavailable on other online stores. I'd take issue with the guy moaning about smartphones. The AU OS is perfectly functional and offers a catalogue of hundreds if not thousands of downloadable JAVA applications. My phone can also handle Word, Excel, Powerpoint and PDF files and has a full featured web browser. Perfectly smart enough for my needs, and no Windows in sight.
And what has Vodafone done in this time? Well to be honest, not very much. They were late to the table with their 3G offering, which works only in mainly urban reception areas. Most importantly, they haven't done anything to really differentiate themselves or their service which is where AU have really scored big points. I don't know the statistics, but I'd say that Vodafone have struggled, not so much because they have failed to win customers, but because both they and DoCoMo have lost market share to AU.
The one comment I'd seriously disagree with is the "brick phone" suggestion in the original story. This is just bullshit. Walk into any Vodafone store and you'll see upwards of 20 handsets, maybe 2 of which are brick phones, and the rest are clamshells. I hardly think this is the cause of their failure, especially when DoCoMo and AU both offer bricks of their own.
16.7% seems quite high for a "failure" to me.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
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And that's why I don't use flip phones (in addition to difficulty of opening them with one hand).
Every flip phone, including the RAZR is thicker than a candybar counterpart. Compare RAZR to SLVR for example. There is a simple reason for this, candybar phones have a single display, flip phones have to stack up two displays on top of each other when the unit is closed.
So flip phones are always thicker, and typically larger overall, simply due to the presence of these additional displays.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Exciting and new.
Lovely discussion on this thread.
They couldn't make a business model work by unbundling the network from the hardware. Maybe because their brick HW was rejected by the market, and their non-3G network was rejected by the market. But their brand and marketing dollars are so strong, they could go "virtual", branding other companies' phones and roaming on other networks.
Maybe it's just too competitive in Japan. While Vodaphone is used to making $BILLIONS without hardly any effort at all.
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I don't know if it's true that Japanese spend more money on "bells and whistles".
The mobile phone market seems more competitive (it's now a mature/saturated market) there than in the US or Canada, and phone features are one way to compete. An emphasis on bells and whistles would also square with the mainstream Japanese marketing philosophy of distracting consumers from price. Unfortunately for the Japanese mobile phone companies, they also have to compete on price.
This is but an anecdote, but I had much more on my 1 Yen phones from Au than my wife has on her CDN$250 phone from Bell Canada. The monthly rates were also cheaper.
Heh. Actually cell phone carriers would love that - a few years ago they introduced a service called 'MMS' in Europe: an SMS with pictures and sounds. They made the sender pay for uploading and the receiver pay for downloading.
Not very surprisingly, it didn't work very well in a market used to not paying for being at the receiving end of communications.
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Yeah, when I drop $500 in coin for a whiz-bang PDA phone (I've had three or four) only to have that damned flip crack and/or snap off, I lose all affection for any "feature" that stupid flip may provide. No wonder the lastest PDAs have dropped them. If I'm worried about scratching, I'll get a cover film or a leather case.
Do I get bonus points for using a 9300, even though it folds, but it doesn't have a camera?
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mit taschenrechner in der hand
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friends use Vodafone? It is somewhat harder to talk on your phone here, as talking in public indoors is generally taboo (God, I wish this was true in the states). Hence, they do not need quite as many minutes. On the other hand, ninety minutes is pathetic - a couple of twenty minute calls to friends from out of town will burn all of your spare minutes from the month, and after that you pay through the teeth. This is true for all the companies.
Most use Tsuka because they are cheap and it doesn't require the commitments. The large number of Vodafone users listed in my cell are Japanese. Perhaps it has something to do with region. I live in Kansai, not near Tokyo.
Heh. I've been looking at getting a new phone lately (my current one is suffering badly from Sony Ericsson Joystick Death) and getting interested in the LG 880 - a very Kirkish clamshell design. But before ordering it I had to actually poke and prod one in meatspace. So - earlier today I looked around some high street stores and found one of these things.
And, yes, there I was in the store with this dummy model phone in my hand, practising my Starfleet communication techniques. Pocket - hand - thumb in the crack to start it opening then flick - "Kirk to Enterprise!" YES! Works perfectly, just like it did on TV!
And best of all the damn thing's a 3G video phone. All it takes is some other geek to get one and we can have conversations holding the things Starfleet style! Not up to the ear, like a phone - but in front of the face, just like Spock!
All it takes once my lovely new phone arrives is to set my ringtone to 'bweepbeep!' - which I'm sure I'll be able to download from some Trek fansite - and practise my heroic pose and intonation. 'Mr Scott! Three to beam up!'
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
In the real world we don't call that "chutzpah". We call that "retarded".
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only five are foreigners (American, Brit, and three Chinese). The American and one Chinese are vodafone. Obviously, the sample size is too small to infer anything. The other 87 are Japanese, and vodafone is heavily represented. Actually, the reason I chose vodafone is because my closest Japanese friends/colleagues use it. Of those 87 numbers, probably 20% are my coworkers (generally Japanese graduate students) and 80% are twenty-something Japanese women (what the hell else would be in my cell phone?). I find it funny that everyone seems to think that I would be carrying around a cell phone full of gaijin numbers...hehehehe
I walked into a store in Akiba and saw a tiny flaccid Nokia booth showing off a 68xx phone, which I actually want, and after comparing the build and the low-res screen, walked away wondering, "who are the poor suckers who thought this thing would sell in the Japanese market?"
Finding out it was Vodaphone was disappointing. Finding out they're folding from the Jp market brings to me a sense of rightness with the world.
We always hear of how far advanced Japanese telecommunications are, many "years" ahead of everyone else. Is anyone here able to explain just what they're doing better over there ? I'm of the camp that wants a phone to be a phone and nothing more. I don't want to play Madden 2006 on my phone, I don't want to buy MP3's on my phone, I don't even want a friggin camera on there. Hell, I'd pay someone to transcribe voice into text just so I don't have to waste my life listening to voice.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I wouldn't use one either, since then you have to open it even more often, as you point out.
What model is this that still comes with no external display?
In a way, I'm glad to hear one exists, since it seems like every phone is sprouting zillions of features, whether people need them or not.
Some phones can be opened easily with one hand, some cannot. When looking at a flip phone, it's one of the things I check before even considering it. I do consider flip phones, but I don't consider swivels, as they are a nightmare to open.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I live in Tokyo and owned a Vodafone for a while. From my experience, Vodafone's problem has nothing to do with Japanese people preferring Japanese products. It has nothing to do with style. Terrible reception is the biggest problem with Vodafone. My Vodafone didn't work at home, at my work, or at my wife's work. Many people I have talked to have this same problem. Owning a Vodafone was the same as not having a phone. DoCoMo and AU have MUCH better reception.
Why is this chutzpah? They bought a local operator (J-Phone) and they operate a phone network, not exactly rocket science. Yes they have some unique data services and they decide which phones to market, but that's not chutzpah, that's just bad execution.
29 mpg. YMMV.
.. but rather the US is so far behind. 3g became popular in the rest of the world years ago. Why is it that because Japan is ahead of the USA then it is assumed that it is ahead of the rest of the world as well??
Even my current phone (in Australia) has a 2 megapixal camera, Video ring tones, and Video conferencing. Sure, a lot of it may be useless but this stuff IS available in other parts of the world, and actually quite popular
Fliphone is a term used outside the US. Here in New Zealand, its kinda common I guess, if anyone said "flip phone", even people without cellphones (and 3/4 of NZ have cellphones according to stats) would know what you were on about.
I guess its a popular term in many countries. I personally HATE the term Clamshell that is used by Yank sites. I think of a rancid shellfish.
So what if more of the phone "flip"s than the old phones did, they do a lot more than older phones
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Hahaha, You Americans think you rule the world! As if its only America and Asia, LOL Good times! *bring on the modding down*
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