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Cassini Finds Evidence of Water

CheshireCatCO writes "Scientists working on the Cassini Mission think that they have found compelling evidence for the existence of liquid water at the south pole of the moon Enceladus. In addition to the obvious puzzles relating to how temperatures can be held high enough for liquid water, the presence of water, as well as the detection of organic molecules, opens up the possibility for life at Enceladus's south polar region. The findings are to appear in the 10 March issue of the journal, Science"

34 of 167 comments (clear)

  1. Business Plan: by tverbeek · · Score: 5, Funny
    1. Send equipment to southern Enceladus

    2. Bottle the icy-cold water

    3. Ship bottles to Earth

    4. Sell "Enceladus Springs" at outrageous prices

    5. (Need I say more?)

    --
    http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    1. Re:Business Plan: by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 3, Funny

      You forgot
      6. Get modded down for a tired joke.

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    2. Re:Business Plan: by Old+Wolf · · Score: 4, Funny

      > 6. Get modded down for a tired joke.

      This is Slashdot, tired jokes get modded up !

      IN SOVIET RUSSIA, YOU JOKE ABOUT MODDED TIRES!

  2. Arthur C Clarke says ... by nmccart · · Score: 4, Funny

    All these worlds
    Are yours except
    Europa
    Attempt no
    Landing there
    Use them together
    Use them in peace

    --
    Funny sigs make your Karma go down.
    1. Re:Arthur C Clarke says ... by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
      > All these worlds
      > Are yours except
      > Europa
      > Attempt no
      > Landing there
      > Use them together
      > Use them in peace

      All these world
      Are belong to you
      Except Enceladus
      Move no Zig there
      For great justice
      And because it will get wet

    2. Re:Arthur C Clarke says ... by Etcetera · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ironically enough, the original 2001: A Space Odyssey story (it remains this way in the novel) has them visiting Saturn, NOT Jupiter. Supposedly it was changed in the movie because the effects people ended up not being able to make a convincing Saturn. IIRC the Monolith is on the moon Iapetus -- a black dot visited smack in the middle of the extraordinarily high contrast between its faces.

      Clarke's 2010(+) novels follow the cinematic version and keep them visiting Jupiter.

  3. Great! by christopher240240 · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's the perfect place for me and my rag-tag band of misfit rebels to establish a secret base! I just hope that taun-taun life is sustainable there.

  4. Saturn by Illbay · · Score: 3, Informative
    It should be noted that Enceladus is a moon of the planet Saturn.

    Yeah, I know a *true geek* such as typically is found on /. will know this without looking it up, but for those afraid to ask...

    --
    Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
    1. Re:Saturn by conJunk · · Score: 4, Informative
      Yeah, I know a *true geek* such as typically is found on /. will know this without looking it up, but for those afraid to ask...

      Well, we didn't even need to get the name of the mood, we *all* know where the Casini probe is and what it's doing...

    2. Re:Saturn by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Informative
      It should be noted that Enceladus is a moon of the planet Saturn. Yeah, I know a *true geek* such as typically is found on /. will know this without looking it up, but for those afraid to ask...

      A true geek might not be expected to know all the moons of the Solar System - I confess I would have had only a 50% chance of getting Enceladus right - but he would certainly be expected to know that the Cassini spacecraft is in orbit around Saturn. Has been for about five years, IIRC. Thus we are unlikely to hear reports of major discoveries made by Cassini about moons of Jupiter, or perhaps of Neptune.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    3. Re:Saturn by dotslash · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Also notable: This finding is more puzzling because Enceladus is not thought to have "volcanic" activity. It is too small and cold to sustain a molten core, or plate tectonics. Which makes this finding the ultimate irony, since Enceladus is the ancient greek god/giant of volcanos, who was burried under mount Etna, hence the volcano there.

      When they named Enceladus, the moon was considered incapable of sustaining volcanic activity, but maybe the name changed all that!

    4. Re:Saturn by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 5, Informative

      Cassini was launched in 1997 and entered Saturn's orbit on July 1, 2004. On December 25, 2004 the probe separated from the orbiter and probe reached Saturn's moon Titan on January 14, 2005

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassini-Huygens

  5. H2O? by imstanny · · Score: 5, Funny

    Do they know that it's Water as in H2O or simply a liquidy viscuous substance that shoots from a small opening at the tip of the moon?

    1. Re:H2O? by Cybrex · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's H2O. They've been able to specifically identify the Hydrogen and Oxygen, and the ratio is correct.

      --
      Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
    2. Re:H2O? by Jon+Luckey · · Score: 4, Informative
      How can a spectrometer work without combustion?

      You can read spectrums as patterns of light absorbtion bands as well as light emission bands

      --
      -- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
  6. That is some cold water by digitaldc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In the spring of 2008, scientists will get another chance to look at Enceladus when Cassini flies within 350 kilometers (approximately 220 miles), but much work remains after Cassini's four-year prime mission is over.

    We need a closer look, but it would be interesting to gather some samples of this water and see if it contains microorganisms of any kind.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:That is some cold water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The practicality of sending a probe to the surface of a far-flung moon for remote experimentation or return payload for terrestrial experimentation aside, the worry with such a procedure would be contamination. The Galileo Spacecraft was plowed into Jupiter's atmosphere to prevent any earth-bound contaminants from entering Europa, another planetoid that's on the short list of places that are likely to be able to support life. Some might see it as a grand irony if our experiment to find out if there's life on Enceladus, only to find that earth-bound microorganisms take seed there and multiply. It's an entirely different irony if the probe ends up being toxic to the indigenous life.

      So, do we sit back, millions of miles away, speculating as to whether life exists there, or endanger the life we seek to discover by "getting a closer look" to see if it exists? Quite a conundrum, isn't it?

    2. Re:That is some cold water by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But why not just do something similar to the Mars rovers? Have a self-contained laboratory that can do all the necessary analysis there. It'd probably be a lot cheaper than trying to retrieve a sample and return it here, and you wouldn't have to worry about contamination, etc.

      Well, if all you had to care about was contaminating the sample you took, what's the big worry? The worry is that microorganisms are incredibly resistant and could survive the trip from Earth to the moon. In fact, there are whole theories about earth being seeded by microorganisms from an asteroid although I consider those pretty far out. But it doesn't get any better by the fact that a) it's coming from a place we know is full of microorganisms, b) space probes travel much shorter, c) land more gentle, d) need radiation shielding and livable operating temperatures. You can read more here about how hard these bastards are to kill. Sending a probe there would be almost as much a medical task (sterilization, contaminant detection, seals) as space travel.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:That is some cold water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The practicality of sending a probe to the surface of a far-flung moon for remote experimentation or return payload for terrestrial experimentation aside, the worry with such a procedure would be contamination.

      But why not just do something similar to the Mars rovers? Have a self-contained laboratory that can do all the necessary analysis there. It'd probably be a lot cheaper than trying to retrieve a sample and return it here, and you wouldn't have to worry about contamination, etc.

      Firstly, sending a self-contained labratory to do experiments there on the moon's surface is sending a probe to the surface of a far-flung moon for remote experimentation, which was the first option mentioned in the snippet you quoted.

      Also, note that this in no way removes the chance of contamination, it probably increases the chance. Even though these probes are assembled in clean rooms and every attempt is made NOT to contaminate the probe prior to flight, it's impossible to make sure that the probe is 100% free of earthborn life. Airborne viruses might get caught inside the probe, and could wreak havoc on the alien biology, for instance. Other posts here illustrate the problems of microorganisms, but the problem isn't necessarily that our microbes could taint their microbes; the very probe itself could very well contaminate the moon on its own. Remember, the probe very likely would NOT be chemically inert; it could poison the water that it touches. A probe sitting on the surface of a planet for all eternity will degrade and erode. Obviously this is purely hypothetical, but imagine that part of this probe was lead. If a chunk of lead fell into our drinking water, we'd suffer consequences and eventually succumb to lead poisoning. Lead is poisonous to us to some degree, and we can't be overexposed to it. Well, what is poisonous to extraterrestial life that we're investigating? How do we make sure that there's nothing we leave on that planet that damages the ecosystem?

      Alternatively, let's assume that we can send a probe which is totally inert and nonthreatening to the moon's environment. We have the possibility of creating something akin to a artificial reef, as life grows around the probe and becomes dependent on it. Are we trying to seed life, encourage life, or study life? Where do we cross the line between letting life grow as it may and interfering with its evolution?
  7. slashdotted already? by spanklin · · Score: 5, Funny
    I teach astronomy, and I just tried to go to Cassini's website for some information for a presentation I'm giving next week. When I found the Cassini website down with some strange error, I clicked over to /. to check the news until their site comes back up. Lo and behold, the first story on /. is about Cassini.

    Did you all purposely do this?

    1. Re:slashdotted already? by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, ciclops.org is feeling the load quite badly at the moment. We're still on a single T1 and we're serving up a lot of very large images at the moment. Apologies if the site is slow or unresponsive. (And we're working on getting another line, but... bureaucracy is happening.)

  8. That's no moon... by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...it's an Evian station!

  9. Yeah, sure... by Wavicle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) Suggest a possible discovery of liquid water out there
    2) Make allusion to possibility of life emerging there
    3) ???
    4) Grant Funding!

    I'm as much a fan of discovery as the next scientifically minded person, but this has become a little tired in recent years. Every time a possible discovery of liquid water creeps up, the potential for life always follows in the very next paragraph if not the next sentence. One would wonder what would happen if we found a vast reservoir of liquid water but no life in it. I imagine some segment of astrobiology would be so incredulous as to insist on probing it until an earth born microbe manages to survive the trip and contaminate the discovery.

    When I was first reading this I thought "Wow, wouldn't it be interesting to figure out how liquid water could have existed there." Then came the inevitable "hey, maybe there's life there!" I just gave up. The conditions for liquid water are remarkable enough, do we need to include the outrageously small probability of life developing before we've looked at the more answerable questions like "where's the heat coming from?"

    --
    Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
    Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
    1. Re:Yeah, sure... by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The water thing is tired because the Mars community has over-done it pretty badly. This is a case where liquid water should not exist (based on what we know right now), so it's pretty remarkable.

      I mentioned the possiblity of life only because of the detection of organic molecules. Frankly, I think that the odds of life are quite slim, but this discovery *does* add Enceladus to a rather short list of good places to look. Even if there is no life, we can learn a lot about the abiotic formation of organics and probably put some better constraints on the conditions under which life might develop. So I'm not saying that there is life or that we should expect to find any, merely that this makes Enceladus an interesting place for astrobiologists.

  10. Re:I don't like to complain but.. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3, Funny

    All of the NASA money is going into manned space programs. Money for the science space program depends on how much money is left over from updating the website.

  11. Re:Predictable rabble by Golias · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All /. comment so far have nothing to do with the news. *sigh* Always the same with astronomy items.

    The news: The most simple and common combination of two extremely common elements might have been noticed on a large rock, very far away.

    Like most astronomy news, it's incredibly boring unless you let your imagination run wild and start dreaming about colonies, alien life, or other flights of fancy... so it's no surprise that most of the /. posts are just people cracking stupid jokes.

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  12. Re:Yeah, sure... or How I Love Grants by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1) Suggest a possible discovery of liquid water out there
    2) Make allusion to possibility of life emerging there
    3) ???
    4) Grant Funding!


    Well, the avian-human transmission of influenza was actually discovered by a research scientist who wanted an excuse to go surfing in Australia, so he proposed a grant to study if seabirds were a reservoir for influenza that infects humans.

    Turns out they were. Plus, he got some good surf in.

    So, maybe we should investigate the surfing potential of this moon, and maybe we'll discover a cure for cancer ...

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  13. Further Link by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 5, Informative

    The editors changed my story link. My original submission had http://www.ciclops.org/ which has not only the press-release but several supporting images which might be of interested. Granted, our server is feeling the load pretty badly at the moment, but that'll probably ease up in a little while.

  14. Maybe . . . by ndansmith · · Score: 3, Funny
    Do they know that it's Water as in H2O or simply a liquidy viscuous substance that shoots from a small opening at the tip of the moon?

    It's oil. Now we can get our petrol without having to rely on those unstable sources like Canada.

  15. Re:Really dumb question... by biraneto2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The current theory is found in this link

  16. Re:Supercooled water by LunaticTippy · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Your observations are dead on.

    Anything that seeds the crystallization will do - an ice crystal works best, but particles or shock will do.

    I had a bottle of cider camping (I don't know the temperature, but my kerosene froze) that stayed liquid until I opened it. Spiderwebs of ice forming inside, quite beautiful, followed by the crack of the bottle breaking.

    --
    Man, you really need that seminar!
  17. Re:Same old news with a new press release and a (! by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 4, Informative

    Speaking as someone who worked this: no we didn't. We knew that there was a plume earlier but as far as we knew it was warm ice that produced it. And that wasn't a year ago that we announced the discovery of the plume, either.

    The new measurements suggest that there too much water vapor in the plume to be warm ice and it almost has to be liquid water.

    Also, there is no detection of ammonia so far.

  18. We're still talking very cold temperatures by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you look at a temperature map of Enceladus, it's still quite cold, perhaps 100 degrees Kelvin. With virtually no pressure, it's enough to cause evaporation and the formation of water. There's a good write-up here.

    So, don't expect to see exotic creatures swimming about. It might end up being a great place to mine for water, however, supporting future colonies of Saturn. The moon has virtually no gravity, so you could practically throw it off the surface (well, not really - the escape velocity is 212 m/s).

  19. Re:Neptune by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 3, Informative

    That sounds like Triton, although I don't think we have any direct detections of a nitrogen ocean. There are certainly plumes erupting from the surface, though, so it's definiately possible.