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Blizzard CEO Lays Gay Guild Issue To Rest
Edge Online reports that Blizzard CEO Paul Sams has responded to the GLBT Guild issue that flared up in World of Warcraft a while back. From the article: "... he again characterized the earlier decision to prohibit mention of real-world subjects in recruiting for guilds as an 'unfortunate mistake,' which only came about because the initial comments weren't properly analyzed before sending a warning. 'It is expected and accepted that players will discuss a wide variety of topics, based on both the game world and the real world,' Sams says. 'Players are free to discuss personal characteristics if they wish, to include their sexual orientations and gender identities.'
I agree with Blizz's previous statement of not having real world issues present in the game, such as a gay guild. I don't know what server they play on, but the amount of gay bashing and whatnot I see in barrens chats, I can only imagine how much arguing and whatnot would be caused by them boldly proclaiming they're gay in their guild title.
And for that matter, they should be forbidden to discuss their race or their religion. Everyone should appear in the game as a straight, white Christian male. We need a pure WoW environment! Warcraft uber alles!!
By a scallop's forelocks!
"Stay in your closet, the bigots were here first,"
In less than 10 words you summed up the original problem. Maybe it was easy for you to write, but it expresses EXACTLY what the problem is and what people have spent hours trying to get their brains around.
It's the bigots who are the problem here, and they should not be appeased. Maybe they shouldn't have done to them what I'd personally like to do to them, but they definitely should not be catered to.
Definite agreement here. There must be responsibility on the part of any guild who would do such a thing. Honestly, how would any guild advertise something that goes against many people's societal norms and NOT expect to be targeted for it? I personally don't care as long as they don't pull an "in your face" attitude about their guild; but we all know, whether from experience or reading of others' experiences, that there are people out there who will cause problems anyway. Just being realistic here, folks.
:/
Blizzard did the right thing by backtracking the way they did, but that doesn't mean that guilds should go advertising thier "differences" given this Blizzard reversal. They'll just be trouble magnets for less scrupulous people, particularly those that can now hide behind the anonymity of the Internet. Sadly, I would not be surprised if there are guilds in formation now with the sole purpose of targeting any openly gay guild.
What a wonderful world.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog Unless, of course, you join a dog-friendly guild.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
If you were referring to discussion about GLBT issues and discussion topics...that would be one thing...but what the hell is wrong with advertising that something is friendly to those people. Its the same as having an advert for any other type of guild. This wasn't "chatter"...it was a fairly succinct advert.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I'm not gay and I would join a gay-friendly guild.
You know why?
Because I would be more comfortable in a guild that is accepting of gays.
Why is this shit so hard for people to understand?
A blog about stuff.
There's a HUGE difference between bringing it up in an appropriate situation and saying "WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER!". If they were a guild with a standard name with members who all happened to be gay, I wouldn't care at ALL. NO ONE would. But if someone made a guild named the Ku Klux Klan and only recruited white supremacists now, would they have the same protection? I'd have to undoubtedly say yes, because if Blizzard is going to say the expression of your real world sexuality is fine, and naming a guild after a real-world advocacy group, then they can't say other groups can't do it as well.
Er... an even -more- acceptible thing would have been if he said this right after the incident happened:
Not after the accountants/PR people told him.
Many arguments keep bringing up the idea of keeping 'real world' issues out of the fantasy game. So, what if the character you are playing is gay? If one were to open a gay themed guild, requiring members to stay in character, is that then still a problem? I don't see how a fantasy game precludes any sense of character's sexual identity. It is patently ridiculous to think that all characters in a fantasy game must be straight and any deivation from this means people have slipped into 'real world' identity. How many straight guys play female characters and would jump at he chance to cyber with another female player? Role-playing is about assuming a character. I can see people being upset about players talking about 'real world' things in such a way that it breaks the game's illusion- but in that context you can't pick and choose which 'real-world' topics offend- they ALL should. But, if the character is played as gay wholly within the context of the game world, how is that a problem?
I perfer a guild that doesn't even care enough for sexual orientation to come into it at all.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
That just means the majority of people are bigots, right? So if bigots are the majority, that makes it OK?
this is a double edged sword and Blizzard have seen fit to blunt one side of it by saying people cant be offended by GLBT but can be offended by those against GLBT. That is unless they are perfectly fine with anti GLBT sentiments but that opens the flood gates in an entirely different set of arguments.
People shouldn't be offended by the EXISTENCE of other people. Think about a guild that has a lot of black people in it. Your logic would say that it should then be fine to have anti-black guilds also.
Heh heh. That freeedom thing is a real bitch, ain't it?
:)
Na, I think more people are just shocked it still exists in various places in the United States after 4 years of King George.
But hey don't worry, he just established 'anther governement program' for a religious department in the Govt.
Love the conservative Republican Ideals King George has, which are to 'stick his nose into everyone's lives, even circumventing states rights, and the ability to keep spending and increasing the size of the Government to the biggest in history.'
Clinton's administration was at least being good Republicans, by reducing the size of government to the lowest it had been since the Kennedy Administration, and keeping their nose out of State's rights.
I know this is a big sidetrack, and a bit tongue in cheeck, but can anyone define themselves anymore by a party?
The Repulbicans are spending us to death, sticking their noses into state and persoanl rights, and the recent Democratic leaders did the opposite and are currently fighting the massive pork barrel projects in congress that Bush NEVER vetos. Strange...
When I hear that the democrats don't have clear vision, I realize the republicans don't either, but they are more loyal to just walk in line with the party leaders for the sake of the party instead of having real internal debate. Both parties are screwed up right now, but it seems the Repulicans don't realize it or just go with the top down direction of the party to at least appear cohesive.
I have people on both sides in congress I love, but they never reflect what their party tries to say they are.
Hey, Blizzard could have chosen to ban all the real-world stuff and ban all the Christian guilds. That would have been just as acceptable. Sounds like that's what you would have preferred, so why not lobby them?
What was pissing people off was banning some real-world social preferences but not others.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I find it funny that Lambda thinks that they can tell Blizzard what it's own terms of service may be. Last time I checked, Blizzard was providing a subscription service. You don't like the terms? Stop paying them and go somewhere else. That's your right and your choice. They can be as discriminatory as they want and while it may piss some people off, that's their perogative.
Too many people are responding to this article in hysterics because Blizzard has changed its policy to revoke a ban on gay chat and overt sexual references in guild names and to allow descriptions of homosexual acts in public chat channels.
9 p
That's not the case now, nor has it ever been. Blizzared never banned gay chat in public channels, only insulting references to sexuality. And descriptions of sexual acts always have been, and continue to be, forbidden. The policy has not changed.
So before you have a freak out, you might want to read the posted policy. It's here:
http://www.blizzard.com/support/wowgm/?id=agm0171
What does the fact that the guild is gay have anything to do with that? Do you think straight people never molest children?
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
If they want to do it in the privacy of their guild, that's cool! But it should NOT be allowed in public channels.
Heh, that sounds like the people that complain about gay pride parades. "I dont' care if they're gay, but why do they have to parade it around all the time?!?!?!?"
Heh, I'll tell you why: Because these people have been shunned and ousted from society from so long, and they're sick of it. They're proud of who they are, and they want to be able to express themselves and their way of life freely the same way that the rest of the world does...
Your comment almost sounds like you think that homosexuals should all just stay in the closet...
Place sig here.
I'd have to undoubtedly say yes, because if Blizzard is going to say the expression of your real world sexuality is fine, and naming a guild after a real-world advocacy group, then they can't say other groups can't do it as well.
I find it interesting that you draw a link between an advocacy group such as the KKK whom actively goes out and tries to persuade others of their own beliefs and a gay-friendly guild (note that gay-friendly != gay-only) whom actively play a video game; just because a minority group of individuals meets up does not mean they are advocating anything. Where as the KKK is an establish advocacy group who makes no secret of their views and as such, if someone were to start a real KKK guild on WoW, clearly they would be an extension of that advocacy group and thus inappropriate.
Now if the National GLBT Organization were to start a WoW guild, yes, this would be an gay-rights advocacy group, but note how this is not the case with the guild in question. I rather doubt this group goes around shouting pro-gay slogans on public channels; no, they probably talk to each other within their gay-friendly group about life, the universe and everything with little concern for promoting anything beyond civility to each other. No agendas, no secret meetings, its a friggen guild on WoW who's members are not hostile towards gays. If this is advocacy at work, then clearly all real-life related guilds on WoW, ranging from Christian to Muslim to Furries to Koreans are all advocacy groups by their very existence and should be immediately banned under the same rules.
That is the crux of the issue at heart: disparate responses to different real-life groups. The rules that Blizzard applied to this gay-friendly guild also apply to religious guilds but you don't see them banning those. So, if you want to take your position, then be sure whos getting thrown out with the bath water.
That banning all these guilds would be retarded from a business & PR perspective is another story altogether.
"What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
Any of you every go out to eat? You know, something reasonable, not fast food but not too pricey either...
Imagine two, clearly gay men, enjoying a pepperoni pizza with mushrooms at this restaurant. They are polite and respectful. All of a sudden, and completely out of the blue, a fellow at another table turns and starts screaming hellfire at them, faggot this and homo that; threatens to kill them perhaps? Who do you think that manager is going to ask to leave?
...the entire fantasy genre is built upon racism.
--> 8 year old gets recruited to STRAIGHT guild, recieves inappropirate chat/tells in game, parents take a screenshot and hand over to a lawyer. Blizz gets sued for enabling child molestation. Parents and child walk away with millions. Your argument doesn't stand up.
(Futurama) Fry: "My folks were always on me to groom myself and wear underpants. What am I, the pope?"
"It was about people making targets of themselves."
Methinks it was more about people targeting them.
I mean, if a raging horde of violent heterosexual male rapists burst through the doors of the local YWCA, I doubt it would fly to say "well, honestly, if they didn't so blatantly advertise that there was nothing but women in there. I mean, that's just inciting this kind of thing."
Considering that homosexuals make up a disproportionately small percentage of child molesters, I'd say that an 8-year old is safer in a "gay friendly" guild than in a straight one.
Honestly, if one looks at the statistics, I'd be much more frightened of leaving my child with straight people than gay.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
What, are you fucking stupid?
It's protection of players' rights. There is no ban on what you say in private chat (whether guild, party, raid, or whispers) to another friend. In fact, when I play with my roommate, I'll call him a useless nigger faggot in a whisper or while we're questing together.
But if somebody calls me a dirty sand nigger faggot cunt twat boy in public chat, then that is NOT allowed. I'm not gay, but if I were, I'd expect to be able to play without hearing slurs about people like me and incitements to violence, or any other derogatory comments, in the PUBLIC chat. Because, you know, children play these games too.
If someone has a GLBT guild, the only thing that could 'offend' a homophobe would be the fact that the guild exists at all. And if you can't stand to see the name of a guild with "GLBT", "Gay", or whatever in it, maybe you should just... get over it. But no one is forcing you to listen to what they have to say.
But if a gay person sees a guild called "Fag Haters", they're going to feel 1) uncomfortable 2) unaccepted 3) like they don't belong. You might be offended by the word gay, but at least it doesn't imply that the person hates you.
So really, Blizzard is forbidding players to make other players feel like they're hated.
It's this bullshit anti-gay right-wing nonsense all over the place. Homophobes are 'offended' by the fact that gay people exist, and they think to make it fair, they should make signs that say "Gays Burn In Hell". They are NOT equal, they are NOT even closely related. One is simply "Look, this is what I am, if you don't like me then go away" whereas the other is "I believe you're going to burn in hell and that you don't deserve the rights I have." There's a HUGE fucking difference.
We're talking about it because they went and said something along the lines of "hey, we don't mind gay people in our guild and won't be assholes to them."
Except they said it as "GLTB-friendly"
And, god forbid, they made sure people knew this, in public.
The nerve.
A blog about stuff.
Yes.
What, you thought Hitler was an aberation? Hitler was a man, and men still today agree with Hitler. Those men are organizing.
Doesn't take much. Just a little integrity.
Riiiight. You know as well as I do that for most major corporations, a "little" integrity isn't much in the same way that a "little" neutron star isn't heavy.