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British Rail's Flying Saucer

Dynamoo writes "The Register is carrying a story about a patent for a fusion powered spacecraft filed by British Rail in the 1970s. While the concept may seem silly for a public railway, it seems that the British Rail Research Division employed a large number of aircraft engineers who presumably had some spare time between projects such as the Advanced Passenger Train."

25 of 155 comments (clear)

  1. Fluxcapacitor by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny

    Unfortunately, the Fluxcapacitor has already been patented (Fig. 1 & 2).

    --
    My work here is dung.
  2. Other patents... by gowen · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Pedrick bombarded his former employers with legendarily screwball designs in the 60s and 70s - one of which was a catflap fitted with a colour sensor to allow his cat Ginger through, to the exclusion of his neighbour's black moggie.
    Screwball? That's freaking genius!
    --
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    1. Re:Other patents... by PFI_Optix · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What's more interesting is a system I saw years ago that was supposed to recognize whether a cat was carrying something in its mouth (like a mouse) by looking at its profile. No more "presents" left for you to step on when you get out of bed in the morning.

      --
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    2. Re:Other patents... by Zarhan · · Score: 4, Informative

      What's more interesting is a system I saw years ago that was supposed to recognize whether a cat was carrying something in its mouth (like a mouse) by looking at its profile. No more "presents" left for you to step on when you get out of bed in the morning.

      You mean Flo control is patented? (See picture on page 2, ie. click next)

  3. Prior Art! by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 4, Funny


    This design was made in 1965.

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    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  4. British Rail by pubjames · · Score: 5, Interesting


    Is this the same British Rail that can't even keep a train running on time? What chance have they got with a flying saucer?

    "British Rail would like to announce that the 17.34 UFO to Mars has been delayed due to a slight wind and a few leaves blowing in the air..."

    1. Re:British Rail by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      'British Rail' hasnt existed for a decade, they arent to blame for the current problems - the previous Tory and the current Labour governments are the ones to blame.

    2. Re:British Rail by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Leaning over to take corners at speed is cool unless it throws everyones coffee into the isle

      It didn't do that. The ride was very smooth (when the tilt mechanism worked). Too smooth actually. People got motion sickness from going round a corner without feeling like they were going round a corner.

      You used to be able to see one rotting in the sidings at Crewe railway station.

      It was still there last August.

      Some of the technology made it to other trains. Sadly, not the tilting mechanism .

    3. Re:British Rail by Bazzalisk · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Actualy ...

      The tilting system worked fine, and didn't throw people's coffee around - it was practicly every other experimental system on the train that failed. Virgin trains are now running a tilting train service between London and Birmingham ... which makes me seasick, but everybody else seems to be happy with it.

      --
      James P. Barrett
    4. Re:British Rail by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Funny

      The BR time dilation effects may be useful for interstellar travel.

    5. Re:British Rail by BovineSpirit · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yawn, no it's a completely different one. British Rail was the nationalised company that was given no money to keep our railways going. Thatcher made them reduce costs by 30%, and, when they were successful made them do it again. The trains were still very reliable.
            The railways were privatised in the early 90s, leading to vast increases in fares, delays and cancellations. Inexperienced managers were brought in to replace the old BR staff and they wasted alarming amounts of money buying crap. Railtrack gave up on track maintainence until several fatel accidents. They then went to parliment begging for money to do what they were supposed to have done anyway. Rather then closing one lane at a time they used 'blockades' in which whole sections of track are closed at once, leading to mass cancellations and severe inconvienience for passengers.
            Oh yes, and tax-payer subsides have more than doubled since privatisation. The private companies can't even sort out the signalling at Waterloo, let alone think about UFOs.

    6. Re:British Rail by Alioth · · Score: 3, Informative

      Every railway suffers from leaves on the line; in the BR case it was more of a PR problem (they told the truth, where other railway companies may have just said 'operational problems' or some other nondescript reason) and the dolts who didn't understand laughed.

      The problem is this. Wet leaves can accumulate during heavy leaf falls. When a train rolls over these, it turns the leaves into an incredibly good lubricant. The moment the driver applies the brakes, hundreds of wheels all lock up. This leaf lube isn't all that good though - quickly wearing off, and when it does, metal to metal contact with the rail head is restored. Except now the wheels are stopped even though the train is still going. The friction burns a flat spot in the wheel - and the rolling stock has to be immediately taken out of service to have the wheel repaired.

      BR (or more accurately, Network SouthEast) made a similar gaffe when they told the truth about the snow (the infamous 'wrong kind of snow'). British snow is typically heavy and wet. This snow was like the finest powder in Utah which people love to ski on. It got sucked into traction motors, shorting them out. If they had just lied and said the track was blocked by snow, everyone would have forgotten about it by now.

  5. Daedalus by Phanatic1a · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "The thermonuclear fusion will take place in a series of pulses, each pulse being triggered by laser energy, and/or energetic particles reflected from a previous pulse. The system will be arranged so that the fusion process will decay after each pulse so that the stability of the system is maintained."

    Pulsed inertial confinement fusion is just a fancy version of Orion, and is what the British Interplanetary Society used in their Daedalus spacecraft concept. Given the 1973 date, the same year as the start of Project Daedalus, I imagine the 'inventor' was a member of the Society.

  6. Ambitious projects by Mattygfunk · · Score: 3, Funny

    While this may get shot down (NPI) as all a bit of movie inspired silliness, it's people who attempt these very ambitious projects and designs that change the world. Hey - commercial spaceflight is a reality today so why not?

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  7. This solves nothing. by harriet+nyborg · · Score: 4, Funny

    The fusion powered spacecraft is delayed due to a signal failure at Camden Town. Passengers are advided to board the next fusion power spacecraft and change at Saturn.

  8. Little Green Men by digitaldc · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The thermonuclear fusion will take place in a series of pulses, each pulse being triggered by laser energy, and/or energetic particles reflected from a previous pulse. The system will be arranged so that the fusion process will decay after each pulse so that the stability of the system is maintained."

    After using the saucer, you are so full of radiation that you will begin to glow green.
    This is helpful when trying to reproduce all aspects of 'alien' saucer lore, as well as to scare the crap out of your neighbours.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  9. They will have had lots of spare time... by jjeffrey · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ....BR canned the Advanced Passenger Train project because apparently the test subjects didn't like the tilting inherent in a tilting train design.

    They came up with the InterCity 125 (because it could do 125MPH) instead. This didn't tilt and was far less revolutionary, but is none the less still in service on our express lines, especially where the line hasn't been electrified.

    It was at least the first train in the UK to have a DVT allowing it to be operated in either direction without being turned round and driven from either end

    Annoyingly, the rights to the APT design were sold to an Italian firm (I think it was Bombardier) who turned it in to the commercialy succesful pendolino - which we have had to buy lots of to run on our West Coast Main line.

    Shame we didn't finish the job ourselves really.

    If you would like to find out more about the APT, visit the National Railway Museum in York UK!

    1. Re:They will have had lots of spare time... by MROD · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually...

      The APT-E was the experimental gas turbine powered test train built in 1973/4. At the same time the prototype HST (Intercity 125 as it became) with the prototype (253001) running by 1975, the production versions (class 253 (great western) and the slightly more powerful class 254 (east coast mainline) going into service in 1977 as a stop-gap as the APT would take a while to come into production.

      The HST vehicles (and the Mark 3 coaches) used technology developed in the APT project, such as high speed bogies, wheel design and brakes, the designs for which were licensed throughout the world.

      In 1979/80 the APT-P vehicles were produced. These were the prototype technology test/demonstration machines and were electricly powered.

      Due to the new Conservative government wanting to see a return on the money already spent on the APT project (which was in total less than 1Km of french TGV track) a political decision was made to force the prototypes into regular service before they were ready.

      The inaugural journey was a comedy of errors. Firstly, it was known that the tilt system was not fully debugged and test had shown that some people became "air sick." So, the PR office plied a load of Fleet Street journalists with alcohol, piled them onto the train along with some minor celebrities and then gave them more drink.

      Strangely enough the journos go sick and wrote about it. One car had a tilt failure half way through the journey and properly rotated upright and locked itself there. Strangely, the guard on the train agreed to a certain minor celebrity to stop the train at Carlisle to get off. Because of this the train lost its high-speed slot on the track and arrived late, which pleased the journos even more.. Fleet Street loves stamping on anything new and painting it in the blackest terms.

      So, a PR disaster.

      After being withdrawn from front-line service (for which the protoypes were never designed) they were used on and off on the West Coast Mainline until 1985, by which time all the bugs had been sorted out, they were reliable and it had been determined that the reason for the "air sickness" was due to the tilting being too good and not giving the brain enough hints that the person was going around the corner.

      One set of the APT-Ps has been bought by a private buyer and the last I heard was sitting at Crewe.

      The Pendolino trains are actually a decendant of a separate tilting train projetc in Italy, which initially used passive tilting. The technology and information gathered during the APT project was used by the italians after the APT project closed.

      It is an interesting point that the West Coast Mainline had been given the green light for 155mph running for the APT in the early 80's using the existing lines and signalling. Yet in the late 90's it was stated by the railway authority that the new pendolino trains could only run on that line at 125mph until new signalling was designed, built and installed.

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      Agrajag: "Oh no, not again!"
  10. Power Source by Billosaur · · Score: 3, Informative
    British Rail patented a design for a flying saucer powered by thermonuclear fusion back in 1973. The public transport body submitted Charles Osmond Frederick's maverick contraption, the Guardian reports.

    The fact that sustainable fusion hasto this day eluded scientists was no deterrent to such a ferociously inventive mind. Frederick explains how to dodge the scientific watershed: "The thermonuclear fusion will take place in a series of pulses, each pulse being triggered by laser energy, and/or energetic particles reflected from a previous pulse. The system will be arranged so that the fusion process will decay after each pulse so that the stability of the system is maintained."

    And according to a related report, the fusion required to run the thing may not be ready anytime soon

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  11. first contact by user24 · · Score: 3, Funny

    so... when the aliens finally meet up with us, the first words between our race and theirs will be a notification of patent infringement and intent to sue said little green men for every neutrino core they've got... :-)

  12. I don't believe it! by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 3, Funny

    Someone beat Microsoft and Amazon to an insane patent!

  13. To be fair, all the goverments were to blaim by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Insightful
    A rail network isn't cheap and it doesn't make money. It is part of the infrastructure however that countries need to others can use them to make money.

    Lets just take a small rail network like the london underground. It is hideously expensive to build and maintain. There are only two ways to operate it.

    See it as a commercial company. Nice idea but doesn't work. Why? Because commercial companies A got to earn their costs, their future investments and a bit extra. But how can you do this when you run a company that has to maintain loss making lines?

    What?

    Well it is simple, it is very easy to make money on the mainlines during peak times. Then the trains are packed and you can easily get your money even with reasonable ticket prices. But how many people would use those mainlines at peak times if there werent any feeder lines at non-peak times?

    Simply put, to get on the mainline I need to take a bus from my house that is half empty. No way that bus makes a profit BUT if it wasn't running I would have no use for the mainline.

    Think of it like this, a supermarket that only sells butter and cheese and jam and peanut butter but NOT bread wouldn't be much use now would it?

    A rail network, or public transport in general will always be spending the money it makes on those non-profit lines. The moment you try to cut money by getting rid of unprofitable lines you gut the service meaning fewer people can use it.

    This practice of cutting unprofitable lines and thereby cutting off whole parts of the country from public transport started long ago. The more it happens the less people can rely on public transport, the less they will use it, the more unprofitable lines you will have, and so on.

    Only in those countries where public transport is seen as an vital part of the infrastructure still have a working system. Spending billions on keeping it all running year in and year out however is very difficult and it is very tempting for a goverment to just cut the budget for a term and hope it will all keep to gether and next term there will be money for the back maintenance. Off course that never happens and so the system is neglected for decades until people die.

    Nothing new, the dutch railnetwork is going through similar problems, our politicians asure us that the we won't have the same problems as the brits and the fact that recently we have had a whole series of accidents is just coincendence.

    Who is to blaim? People that believe in tax cuts. A goverment tax cut is like your landlord saying he will charge you 100 less. Just now you got to pay the elec bill of 200 yourselve. I never seen a tax cut that wasn't offset by an increase somewhere else.

    --

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  14. Rails?! by consumer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Since I switched to Ruby on Rails, I can develop fusion powered spacecraft in half the time! With no code at all! And it all tests itself!

  15. Sobering experience. by Thedeviluno · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I used to laugh at UFO freaks....Until I actually saw one during a BBQ several years ago, with a small gathering of friends late one night outside my house. What we witnessed was a disc visible only by the absence of light in an eliptical shape. The perimeter of the disc had pin-holes of bright white light and I can only guess at the size due to the lack of landmarks in the sky, but the collective opinion seems to be somewhere around 100-200meters in diameter. When I first spotted the disc I could not understand what I was looking at. The eye must associate what it sees with what the brain knows (optics) and so I would have never reconsidered the matter had the UFO not passed directly over my house. From a distance of several miles it appeared to be a flock of white birds heading south. Hardly uncommon, as it slowly drew closer to me I thought maybe I was looking at some kind of helicopter.(I had by now alerted my guests to the event) Once it was on top of us we could see that what had been mistaken for white geese migrating was a ring of bright white lights slowly rotating just enough to make out a sillouhette of the disc against the nightsky, nobody could speak. My small gathering of friends had become a herd of deer in front of headlights. Certainly a once in a lifetime experience. I immediatly called the first aeronautical authority I could think of; the airport laughed at me, the laughter hasnt stopped. You cant talk about this shit without people labelling you a crackpot and why not? Isn't it easier to believe that thousands of eye witnesses are fools or madmen? I always thought so, just keep your eyes on the sky. Everything I've reported is true and I dont care if anyone besides the guests at my BBQ laugh themselves to death. I know what I saw.

  16. Clouting Tilt Trains, and Sea-Sickness by nukenerd · · Score: 3, Informative

    The APT could not tilt into the path of another train. Its whole tilt motion envelope fell within the envelope of a non-tilting train; or in other words, within the loading gauge. True, if the tilt failed the train would have to slow to the speed of a non-tilting train, not for any technical reason but for passenger comfort or so as not to alarm the passengers. This would not be a huge problem - the tilt system would be pretty reliable and even if it did fail the train would only need to slow on the sharper curves.

    As for causing sea-sickness, this depends on the tilting algorithm. When the APT came out little was known about passenger response and the APT was given a very simple algorithm that aimed for zero lateral g in the passenger saloon. Later knowledge, particularly aquired by FIAT with their Penulino development, made great improvements such as leaving a proportion of the centrifugal force uncorrected by tilt, and also better handling of the transitions. Given any programmable tilt control system (such as the APT had) such tuning could have been applied retrospectively.

    As it was, the APT on its first publicity run made a bunch of press hack vomit their whisky-and-soda, leading to the bad press that caused the myth that the APT was some kind of total disaster, a myth that Mrs Thatcher seized upon as an excuse to can the project, and a myth which quite a few Slashdotters seem to have bought too.