Gates Mocks MIT's $100 Laptop

QuietLagoon writes 'Reuters is reporting that Bill Gates is making fun of the one laptop per child initiative to revolutionize how the world's children are educated. 'The last thing you want to do for a shared use computer is have it be something without a disk ... and with a tiny little screen,' Gates said at the Microsoft Government Leaders Forum in suburban Washington. 'Hardware is a small part of the cost' of providing computing capabilities, he said, adding that the big costs come from network connectivity, applications and support. 'If you are going to go have people share the computer, get a broadband connection and have somebody there who can help support the user, geez, get a decent computer where you can actually read the text and you're not sitting there cranking the thing while you're trying to type,' Gates said.'

Comments

Education starts only with opportunity

[dada21]

While I think Gates is right to mock these laptops, I don't think he understands the realities of the problems of helping others around the world. The only thing that helps others is letting them find or create their own opportunities to better their futures. Taking care of people today is counter-productive and can destroy opportunities in the future.

Computers don't make opportunities. Teachers don't make opportunities. Public funding of projects, businesses and markets doesn't make opportunities. Opportunities come when a given community finds that is can accomplish something that others in a market want.

The Internet won't help here -- it isn't here to educate, it is here to help people meet each other's needs. The people using the Internet to better themselves are already living in an economy that enables them to find opportunities to better themselves. That realization is enough to give the average person the desire to make their lives better.

Gates is right -- the $100 laptop is useless. The people it is being built for do not understand opportunity because their community leaders have robbed them of any chance to better themselves. Many of the world's poor live under the thumb of a small group of elitists who think they can help the poor through force. They attempt to provide what their poor needs today, without realizing that just giving someone something doesn't offer any hope for the future. This is especially true if what you're giving them today doesn't really help them enough.

The Bible offers the old fish cliche -- give a man a fish and he'll eat today, teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever. This is very important when making a consideration towards helping another person. I hate helping others through tax-and-spend wealth redistribution: there is no accountability in how the money is spent. I give all my charitable dollars (in the past few months, over 50% of my income) only to those I can hold accountable. This sounds like a "quid pro quo" situation, but it would be no different if it was my own brother or child or best friend. If the person I am helping is not making attempts to support themselves, then my help is wasted -- time, money, love or support. There are others who want to help themselves but are in a position (for whatever reason) that they just can't. These are the people I help.

I would never fund anyone in another country, never again. When I was younger I funded some Ehtiopian charity group, and a few years later had the opportunity to visit Ethiopia. The charity group's office was luxurious and the people working for it lived a very nice life. They found an opportunity: take advantage of idiots in other countries who can't hold the charity accountable. The people the charity was meant to help received very little of the finance and support promised, and what little they did receive did not give them any hope for the future.

It is this hope that creates opporunities. I've seen poor people climb out of poverty with no help from anyone, just because a simple opportunity opened up near them. I just visited Europe and Asia, and I saw thousands of very poor people taking advantage of opportunities that we in the U.S. would never consider doing. Many of these people realized their time investment could offer them the chance to save for the future, to give their children a better chance, to even save some money so they can better their own lives -- in the future. I would never give a homeless person a home, a car and a credit card. I would never give an uneducated person a computer or an education. I would never give a hungry person money to buy food. I would never fund health care of people who don't care about their lives or the lives of their children.

But I would open my home to the homeless person, if they were willing to make steps to find how they can house themselves in the future. I would (and do) spend time with poor families to give their children a chance to learn in some way so that they could take on

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[pizzaman100]

The Bible offers the old fish cliche -- give a man a fish and he'll eat today, teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever

Pretty sure that's not from the Bible.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[jcr]

Gates is right -- the $100 laptop is useless.

Useless to him, certainly not useless to millions of poor people.

-jcr

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

The Bible offers the old fish cliche -- give a man a fish and he'll eat today, teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever

Pretty sure that's not from the Bible.

No, that was more, "teach a man to replicate fish...".

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[include($dysmas)]

ive always prefered

give a man a match, his hand will be warm for 0.37 second. Set a man on fire he will be warm for the rest of his life.

back on topic "adding that the big costs come from network connectivity, applications and support." ... mostly your fault that mate, cheers.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[jdavidb]

The Bible offers the old fish cliche -- give a man a fish and he'll eat today, teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever.

Did you mean that cliche literally came from the Bible? I don't think so, but if you want to offer a reference, I'll check.

It does teach that charity from the church should proceed by the rule that "For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone will not work, neither let him eat." (II Thessalonians 3:10) I'd say that allows us to infer the same concept. But the saying itself did not originate there, to my knowledge.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

I couldn't agree with you more.

That's why I think all of the vaccination efforts around the world as such BS: people need to help themselves not wait for some handout from the rich, and if some of them die in the meantime, well, that makes it easier of the rest of the people around them. A multi-disease vaccination shot for under $5? Why? It will just teach people not to help themselves.

Ditto for clean water efforts, and, really, all public infrastructure projects. Infrastructure and the good health to use it doesn't create opportunities, people do.

Pretty much, other people are stupid and don't even know what's best for them, so I'm not going to make any efforts to help them at all until they start to get smart. The poor don't need help. They need a backbone.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[YU Nicks NE Way]

Gates is right -- the $100 laptop is useless.

Useless to him, certainly not useless to millions of poor people.

Actually, the $100 computer would be utterly useless to the millions of poor people -- if it every appeared, which I doubt.

Gates is wrong, all the same. There's a much better reason to mock the $100 laptop: what the "$100 laptop" offers already available throughout the third world, and is, increasingly, being used by people in the third world for the same thing that we in the first world use our computers for: communication. Cheap cell phones are blooming throughout Africa and Asia.

The average cell phone is a pretty powerful computer. With a display. And an always-on wireless link. And a storage system. And a data-entry pad. And, and, and.

Gates' criticism is laughable -- there's a lot of use in a small screen, for instance -- but Negroponte's idea is stupid, too.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Smidge204]

-1 Troll? I'm pretty sure that's a Chinese proverb or somesuch. Unless someone can actually find a reference...

No, the version in the bible goes something like: "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, give a man religion and he'll starve to death while praying for fish."
=Smidge=

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[jdavidb]

I would never fund anyone in another country, never again. When I was younger I funded some Ehtiopian charity group, and a few years later had the opportunity to visit Ethiopia. The charity group's office was luxurious and the people working for it lived a very nice life. They found an opportunity: take advantage of idiots in other countries who can't hold the charity accountable. The people the charity was meant to help received very little of the finance and support promised, and what little they did receive did not give them any hope for the future.

Again, the Bible offers a model here. In the Bible, a church would send support to another church in a foreign land during times of trouble (such as famine), through a trusted person (such as the apostle Paul). The book of Acts relates at least one such church to church contribution, and I'm pretty sure First or Second Corinthians (maybe both) has Paul speaking about how he made sure to take witnesses along with him on such endeavors so everyone could know for sure the money got to the poor people who needed it. Starting point for reading would be Acts 11:27-30.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[mcvos]

Many of the world's poor live under the thumb of a small group of elitists who think they can help the poor through force. They attempt to provide what their poor needs today, without realizing that just giving someone something doesn't offer any hope for the future.

"Africa's problem is that its leaders take care of their people"? If only that were true. The problem is that they don't. Instead of investing in education, infrastructure, and economy, many African leaders invest mostly in a comfy life for themselves. If your line of reasoning were correct, Africa would have been a reasonably wealthy continent by now.

Well, you're partially right. One of the biggest reasons the African economy is struggling, is because Europe and the US are subsidising farmers to produce more food that we'll ever eat, and dumping the surplus below cost on the African market. And free or cheap food from abroad means that the local farmers can't sell their products and go bankrupt. So in this case, we're paying money to keep them poor. (And before you ask why African countries don't raise tariffs on imported food: they'd get in trouble with IMF, WTO or similar institutions if they did.)

As for the cheap laptops for developing countries, I support it exactly because it does provide opportunities and helps education.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[rk]

I gave a sizable amount of money to help people who lost in Hurricane Katrina (not approaching the magnitude of Gates' charitable giving of course) but that doesn't make me an expert in disaster relief.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[AKAImBatman]

His quote is actually a Chinese Proverb. (Reference Link) The Bible talks heavily about giving to the poor. In my interpretation, this is because the poor are not always a result of their own doing, but may be born into a situation that takes a lot of time and effort to get out of. The poorer parts of Africa are a fairly good example of this. None of those children asked to be born into their situation. But given the chance for an education (which requires food and medicine so that they may stay alive) they may very well learn to "fish for themselves". :-)

I do have to say, though, I've often heard Biblical Proverbs misattributed as "old sayings" or said by famous figures like dead Presidents, but this is only the second time I've heard it the other way around. The first time was the Greek Proverb, "everything in moderation."

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Imsdal]

Of course it doesn't. But you seem to imply that this also applies to Gates' donations. That is flat out wrong. Every credible soure I have read have praised the thoughts behind his donations, and I can't recall even once reading something negative about the scope and implementation of his vaccination schemes.

This is of course in rather sharp contrast to most everything else written about him, his company and his company's products. (Some of that is obviously well deserved, I'm just pointing out that despite being critisized a lot, no one blames his donations.)

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Thud457]

That proverb has great poetry to it in the original Klingon.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Dr. Manhattan]

The average cell phone is a pretty powerful computer. With a display. And an always-on wireless link. And a storage system. And a data-entry pad. And, and, and.

But it doesn't have a good, easy way to enter data. Full-size keyboards do matter. It's also hard to do self-hosted development on a cell phone, though that's less of a priority.

Now, come up with an external, plugin keyboard for a cell phone, and you might have something...

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[iamhassi]

"When we want to help others, we should. I believe it is required of all people to help those less fortunate."

What do you consider "less fortunate"? Because they dont have computers? I think a lot of us survived without computers and we turned out just fine and I'm sure there's plenty of people in the US that still dont have a PC and they're surviving without.

Seems we're giving computers to people that would be happier with running water and fresh food. I think they'll play with the computer for a minute, see that it doesnt dispense food or water and it'll end up in the corner or sold somewhere.

What if some advanced alien race found us and said
"Awwww... those poor poor humans, they dont have food replicators, teleportors or antigravity tractor beams! OMG look how many die in auto accidents, and look how hard the work just to produce food or move large objects around, we must help the less fortunate and give them technology!"

Is that what you'd want? Handouts?

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[dtsazza]

Correct - it was the Chinese mystic philosopher Lao Tzu who first said it.
 
...and playing Civ 4 pays off again! (It's the quote you get when you research the Fishing tech, naturally...)

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[panthro]

Your comparison of this laptop initiative to giving a man a fish is very poor.

Giving people laptops, without getting into too much detail, is essentially giving people in developing nations access to information that they have no other way of obtaining. It has the potential to have a somewhat analogous effect to the introduction of the printing press in Europe in the middle ages: the common uneducated person suddenly has access to something that traditionally has been controlled by a few elite.

Education is not something you can squander, like a fish or money or even a temporary home. Information doesn't cost anything to give, and ideally lasts forever. The only thing that has an expense attached to it is the means of distributing the information - in this case, $100 per laptop, plus some distribution and infrastructure costs.

Further, playing down the merits of this project simply because there exist better solutions is irresponsible. You are essentially claiming that we should do nothing if we aren't going to completely rework the foreign policies and internal structures of virtually every government on earth. Nothing about this project is stopping you and I from trying to make bigger and better changes (aside from the expended focus, energy, time and money on the part of those who participate in the project - all those things are renewable resources). Mother Teresa is a good parallel to consider.

You are correct, a lack of opportunity is what is holding the 'less fortunate' people down. However, education is opportunity. It is precisely what the common population in underdeveloped nations needs to escape the shadow of their oppressors at home and abroad. Giving them laptops is not like giving them a fish. Giving them laptops is like giving them a library card and a ride to the library; all that's left is for some well-meaning librarian to point them to some books about fishing.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[edunbar93]

Many of the world's poor live under the thumb of a small group of elitists who think they can help the poor through force.

You misunderstand capitalism. Most of the world's poor is now and has always been under the thumb of a small group of elitists who want to crush the poor and get richer by breaking their backs. Poverty to them isn't something that they want to rid the world of, it's something they want to exploit and exacerbate, if anything.

See also: Coal mines America in 1900, gold and diamond mines in Africa in the present, the ivory trade in the 19th century, the fur trade in the 18th century, the oil trade in the present, and so many more examples that I can't even begin to count them.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[dada21]

Here are my concerns:

1. This is not private citizens electing to fund a private charity. This is the United Nations, an organization who has not proven its worth to me nor to millions of people throughout the world. The UN has had its own share of scandals and wasted money, and it has made promises for decades that have rarely been met in any way that can be called successful.

2. There is too much favoritism in terms of corporate subsidies here. Since governments of the world will be paying for these devices, there is likely going to be some concern for cronyism. On top of that, we're not looking at a competitive product being made -- Negroponte has said he hopes to see a commercial version that will subsidize the $100 version, but have we actually seen this happening? We're looking at a device bought by governments that is being built by single companies without a thought for ongoing competitive price drops.

3. The majority of users of this laptop will NOT be in ultrapoor countries. I've heard China and Massachusetts.

4. We're not being told exactly what support hardware, technology and support will be needed to make sure these devices work. I can sell US$0.10 razor blades to the world, but if the world governments also need to buy US$100 razor handles, we need to know the entire budget and where the hidden money goes.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Scarletdown]

One I always liked was:

Give a man a fish, and he'll have fish for dinner. Teach him to fish, and you've just blown away your entire fuckin' marketbase.

(or something to that effect...)

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[include($dysmas)]

quick check on google yields a scary amount alternatives to that line ... one that jumped out

"Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day... Teach a man to fish and he'll bore you for a lifetime"

more funny to me due to personal experience maybe,

oh and : Gates your Wrong!! (see i am still ontopic)

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[utexaspunk]

But a laptop connected to the internet provides an entirely different kind of communication than a cell phone which could be prove quite useful for these people- You can't hold a meeting and discuss something with hundreds or thousands of people on a cell phone. Even if you could do a massive conference call, there's little chance of having a productive conversation.

If these people are poor and predominantly rural, they probably live far apart and don't have adequate transportation to congregate in a central location and hold a community discussion on how they can work together to improve their situation whether it's starting a business, drilling a well, or overthrowing their government. In the case of overthrowing their government, congregating in one location just to discuss the possibility may also be extremely risky. Having access to the internet means they can create forums where problems and solutions can be discussed from home and with a some degree of anonymity, if necessary. Once people have access to the internet, anyone can say something where everyone else can hear it- nobody has a monopoly on mass-communication, and in a well-structured forum the good ideas can float to the top.

It would also give them the ability to broadcast the reality of their daily lives to the outside world and increase our awareness of their situation. As it is, we may know the situation is bad over there, but we know so little that we can ignore it pretty easily.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

['nother poster]

Would I want patronizing ass wipes to say how sorry they were, and how unfortunate I was? No. Would I want access to the technology and a chance to use it for a better life? You bet your ass I would.

The laptops in question are not meant to play games. They are not even meant to be a machine to use for business accounting. If you can replace $200 worth of text books with a $100 computer and a handful of SD cards and such, I
it is cheaper to get the educational tools and information to the students. The kids also no longer need paper and pencils to do most of their work. They can type it in. The built in peer to peer networking will allow colaboration between the students and an easy way to turn in assignments. Maybe some of those texts can be on how to build sanitary latrines, low tech farming techniques, and how to keep pests from eating 60% of your harvest. That may just be beneficial for the poor people in some parts of the world.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[tezbobobo]

What the hell, I'm already on negative karma. I am a politics honours student currently doing my thesis on the educational value of IT in education in Western Australia. My research is not limited to that scope.

Most studies into this sort of feild indicate the educational value of IT in schools is minilmal and may actually negatively impact on students. The only app which is generally real world related is the word processor and those who get to the end of an education which leads into an occupation which requires those skills generally requires it at the tertiary level. That mean's they are going to learn it, whether they are taught it or not. Most it related tasks bear no resemblance to those taought in the education system and only the most basic of skills are required.

Secondly, the students in, for example, grade ten wont be moving into an office job for at least three years, if not six. For promary school users it is even further. That means the technology they are currently learning will be SIX YEARS OR MORE OUT OF DATE. In the meantime they are experiencing the degradation caused by spelling and grammar checks.

Thirdly, the students with access to computers at home will succeed in the classroom where they are graded on those skills and those without access will fall further behind. This has the effect of widening the socio-economic gap. This means the laptops for everone (or whatever) will need to be implemented in a way which increases equity. I'd imagine selling your free$100 laptop would be quite profitable.

I think that serious thought needs to go into the education value and expected outcomes of implementing this program. While Bill is right to mock these people, it is for the wrong reason.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[medarby]

This is a private initiative that people can choose to be a part of or not. You don't like it, fine, don't be part of it. But as far as no real opportunities being created? These laptops are information tools. These are essentially portable, electronic libraries of information. Libraries are useless? People educating themselves, communicating with others instantly, expressing their ideas and opinions to the world are not opportunities? This is giving the poor a cheap fishing pole and hook so they can learn how to fish.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[jdavidb]

Because I dared to appear knowledgeable about the Bible. It's part of the cost here on slashdot. I'm automatically a troll. Because apparently anyone knowledgeable about the Bible is automatically a jerk trying to come in and force everyone to convert or die.

It's okay, I have a 50 karma. Or 49 now, or so. It'll be back up soon. I'm used to it. :)

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[qkslvrwolf]

Consider that everything you have been told is wrong.

These are not delinquent children that simply aren't applying themselves. These are millions of people who are diseased, starving, and desperate.

Now, if we absolutely left them alone, some people might eventually be able to stand on their own two feet. But that would be after hundreds of years, and plenty of famine, war, and the general riding of the four horsemen of the apocalypse across africa.

I'm sure that since you are worried about "actively destroying hope", then you obviously are going to start fighting against taking any african resources our of africa. Since that happens to be a major portion of *why* they're so poor. All the natural resources of africa went to benefit {drumroll please} Europe and the United States! Big surprise. And we're still doing it. Oil drilling operations that pull in hundreds of millions of dollars a year sit right next to people with lifespans of 30 to 40 years, if they're lucky. You konw what "doing it for themselves" would be? Rising up and kicking out sorry asses out of the country.

The mindset of "anyone can create their own opportunities, no matter what" is utterly assinine, and really shows a very narrow, very america-centric world-view. I challenge you to spend 1 year in somalia, or rwanda, or hell, even one of the best off countries like ghana, without taking anything with you. Good luck.

Education is the biggest problem...they need as much knowledge available as possible. And these laptops can help with that. They can help alot. These laptops are about giving people the tools they need to learn - not just to fish, but to fish, farm, hunt, gather, build, heal, and *live*.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Dare nMc]

> what the "$100 laptop" offers already available throughout the third world,

With that logic, if the $500 MSN/AOL rebates returned to best buy/circuit city, then the $100 laptop goal would be accomplished. those phones aren't $100, their $20-50 per month.

What the $100 laptop would accomplish is 2 fold.
a $100 laptop, with a sip phone/messanger speaker/mike, and wireless is a mobile call center for one, etc. In places without cheap cell phone, setup a wireless network for a lower setup cost, and lower monthly charge, with greater flexibilty, to enter data, answer questions, steal identity, mass produce atm cards,etc... worldwide.

    second you don't have to protect those computers as diligently from theft, they got no re-sale value, they would all got a ban-able macaddress to kill the usefullness if lost...

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Stephen Williams]

The even more capitalist version of that one begins "give a man a fish, and he owes you a fish".

-Stephen

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[AKAImBatman]

Sure and my having a PhD in Mathematics in a farm based community has helped my opportunities.

Perhaps not, but having a PhD in farming would do wonders for your area. You'd be amazed at how much things like crop rotation, harvesting patterns, fertilizer distribution patterns, and new harvesting machines can have on improving yeild and quality. Having grown up in a farm community myself, I often witnessed farmers from other countries come over to the states to learn how to improve their own yields. Even the stuff being done in genetic testing of livestock can have profound effects on things like milk yeild and quality.

I feel honored by the fact that one of my earliest jobs allowed me to work directly alongside some of the cutting edge researchers in the farming industry. Without them, we'd still have trouble producing enough food for ourselves, much less 25% of the world's supply.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[mcvos]

The grandparent was exactly right, and you are completely wrong. This is the socialist line of thinking that keeps people in poverty, keeps people dying, and is actively destroying hope where it exists.

I'm afraid you're the one who's completely wrong. Africa is not the result of governments taking care of their people. Sweden is. Western Europe is. Africa is the result of colonial powers serving only their own interests, followed by African leaders serving only their own interests, and the WTO serving western interests.

Infrastructure is not the problem. Education is not the problem. And most of all, money is not the problem. It is when we understand this that there is real hope.

Ignorance certainly is a problem. Could you expand on why Africa doesn't need education, infrastructure or money? Money (especially in the form of microcredits) is certainly already doing a lot of good there, and I find it hard to believe that illiteracy is not an obstacle to finding opportunities and taking advantage of them.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[stanmann]

Actually, most of those people are starving because the food relief sent from US/ASIA/EUROPE Rots on the docks because the ruling government wants those people to starve, they are also starving because of drought famine and disease eliminating what little crops they can grow.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Headcase88]

"give a man a fish, and he owes you a fish"

... and teach a man to fish, and he owes you royalties for each fish he catches.

... and if he teaches someone else to fish, take him to court with your army of laywers.

All this, of course, benefits society.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[fredklein]

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Try to teach a man to fish, and he'll bitch you're not giving him free fish.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Irish_Samurai]

I have a really kick ass bluetooth abacus.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Fennario]

"Education is not something you can squander, like a fish or money or even a temporary home."

Sure, just ask the Cornell French Lit major currently engaged in making your copies at Kinkos.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[1u3hr]

This is not private citizens electing to fund a private charity. This is the United Nations
No, it IS NOT the UN.

http://laptop.org/faq.en_US.html
The $100 laptop is being developed by One Laptop per Child (OLPC), a Delaware-based, non-profit organization created by faculty members from the MIT Media Lab to design, manufacture, and distribute laptops that are sufficiently inexpensive to provide every child in the world access to knowledge and modern forms of education. OLPC is based on constructionist theories of learning pioneered by Seymour Papert and later Alan Kay, as well as the principles expressed in Nicholas Negroponte's book Being Digital. The founding corporate members are Advanced Micro Devices (AMD), Brightstar, Google, News Corporation, Nortel, and Red Hat.

The majority of users of this laptop will NOT be in ultrapoor countries. I've heard China and Massachusetts.

Of course not. People who are actually starving have more urgent needs.

We're not being told exactly what support hardware, technology and support will be needed

The ideal is none. Thus the crank on some models (not all) to charge the battery, that Gates thought was for losers.
Otherwise, connectivity, "When these machines pop out of the box, they will make a mesh network of their own, peer-to-peer."

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[kootsoop]

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day.
Teach a man how to fish, and he'll ask if roe is on the exam.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Omestes]

My favorite, I think I culled it from here a long long time ago...

"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you will not have to listen to his incessant whining about how hungry he is."

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[hanssprudel]

Another Armchair American who's never been outside of the country yet knows everything about politics.

No, a Swede who has lived on three continents, and traveled to more countries than you know the names of.

Countries with social programs, such as Australia, Japan, Canada and those in western Europe have highly productive economies and high standards of living for their citizens. Poor countries, like those in South America, have few social program, and a significant portion of the population live in dirt-floor poverty. A few wealthy faimilies re-direct all of the countries wealth to themselves.

Countries with social programs have slow growth, high unemployment, and are eating through the wealth they acquired through their otherwise liberal politics. My native Sweden (once the world's richest country, now among the poorest in OECD and poorer than every American state) is a shining example.

Since you mention South America, take a look at Argentina. At the end of WWI, Argentina was richer then most European countries. Then the "social programs" took over.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Ansonmont]

http://mobilitytoday.com/article.php?a=iPAQ_Blueto oth%20Virtual%20Keyboard_iTECH_2P&p=1.html

Haven't used it myself.
-A

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[jonaskoelker]

Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Try to teach a man to fish, and he'll complain that "I DON'T CARE!! You take take of catching fish! I mean, you're the sysadmin!"

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[lawpoop]

I bring up South America because almost every other country is a counter-example to your thesis. Glancing over Argentina's history at wikipedia, it looks like repeated coups and political instability is a better explanation as to why they aren't doing as well as Sweden. So you are saying that social programs caused Argetina to fall behind Sweden after WWII, when Argentina was richer after the war? Well, weren't Sweden's social programs were wider-reaching and more comprehensive than Argetina's? So shouldn't Sweden be further behind Argetina then? Shouldn't all the indusrialized, western nations be behind South America and Africa, since they have larger social programs?

The reason they're not is because social programs create the middle class. Corporations would have slaves or indentured servants if they could. They have no incentive in paying for someone's retirement, or making them wealthier, if the wealth could stay with the corporation instead. There is nothing wrong with corporations making money -- that's their role. However, it is the role of democratic government to provide for the general welfare through taxes. Without that, we would live in facism -- a system in which, as Mussolini said, is the merging of state and corporate power.

Where are the shanty towns in Sweden? Where are the poor families (mom, dad, and kids) lierally living on the street in rest of Scandinavia? In Europe? Australia? Japan? Canada? They don't exist. You only find this kind of poverty in countries without social programs.

When you talk about wealth, you should look at the distribution of wealth. Who cares if a country has a high GDP when a few families control most of the wealth, and the average guy is living in the street or in a shanty town.

I apologize for calling you an untraveled American. I made an assumption and I was wrong.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[Steve Cowan]

The "average cell phone" costs well over $100. The only reason you ever see it cheaper is because of subsidies by cell phone providers, who are willing to cough up some of the phone cost in exchange for committing customers to their networks.

Re:Education starts only with opportunity

[apoc.famine]

But for many people, it's not about entering data - it's about *transimitting* data. Data about how they are, what they like, when they will come home, what the food is like here.

I spent an hour the other day talking to a woman who had recently been in the back side of India, doing radio astronomy work. (yeah, she fucking rocked.) One of their problems was that even though the locals were still cooking on open campfires and drawing water from a comnunal well, they were doing this while chatting on cell phones, and that was causing a lot of interference on their dishes.

These people weren't worried about storing data - they were interesting in transmitting it. How they were doing, what they were doing, and how their cousin in the big city was doing. All this was data transfer, but it was voice. Imagine, needing to stay in touch with your relatives in the big city being more important than clean drinking water and a stove and refrigeration.

While the $100 laptop/tablet might be something, I'd put good money on it being an IM platform and an email client more than anything else. Because I think that we as a race, we are hooked on communication, more than anything else in the world. If it can offer a better communication ability than a cell phone, it will take off like wildfire. If not, it is doomed to failure.

Throwing Stones

[ackthpt]

'The last thing you want to do for a shared use computer is have it be something without a disk ... and with a tiny little screen,' Gates said at the Microsoft Government Leaders Forum in suburban Washington. 'Hardware is a small part of the cost' of providing computing capabilities, he said, adding that the big costs come from network connectivity, applications and support. 'If you are going to go have people share the computer, get a broadband connection and have somebody there who can help support the user, geez, get a decent computer where you can actually read the text and you're not sitting there cranking the thing while you're trying to type,' Gates said.'

Fscking rich snob. You know, this git travelled around the world, donates money to fight diseases in 3rd world countries, but seems to have this wild belief that these backwaters are going to have telecommunications to each school and house, let alone broadband.

He SAW the crank handle, what part of "they use this because they don't even have electric" doesn't he understand? It's crap like this that gives the west a worse reputation, never mind invading oil countries, but doing bugger all for poor african nations. Geez, Bill, go back to feeling all warm and fuzzy inside about your Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, or maybe you could free up $100B and give people in these developing backwaters with shite infrastructure some electricity, running water and telecommunications. Then maybe the destabilizing wars will settle down, which actually go a long way towards contributing to the diseases you like to fund the fight against, and the people won't be on the move so much and they can all get down to the business of e-commerce.

Cripes... I can just see some kid sitting in an adobe house in a rural village looking at his bright shiny Dell laptop with Windows Vista installed, 2 GB memory, 200G HD, whizzy graphics, and wondering if he could use it as a hard surface to practice his writing on.,

Bill's probably really spiteful because it doesn't spread the market penetration of Microsoft. So where's his effort? If he hasn't got one, he shouldn't be spitting on others.

we give money to underprivileged congressmen to help develping strategies for them to look the other way.

Re:Throwing Stones

[tdemark]

'Hardware is a small part of the cost' of providing computing capabilities, he said

... a very small part, where Windows is concerned.

Re:Throwing Stones

[harlows_monkeys]

Fscking rich snob. You know, this git travelled around the world, donates money to fight diseases in 3rd world countries, but seems to have this wild belief that these backwaters are going to have telecommunications to each school and house, let alone broadband

Actually, in earlier stories on Gates' view of the $100 laptop, he is clearly aware that they don't have adequate telecommunications, and said that what they need is not laptops, but cell phones and the associated infrastructure. He said what we should be making and giving them cheaply are basically cell phones that you can hook up to a TV and keyboard and use as a computer.

Re:Throwing Stones

[A beautiful mind]

"that you can hook up to a TV and keyboard and use as a computer."

Yeah, I see now. That would work perfectly well at places without electricity.

Re:Throwing Stones

[dc29A]

He said what we should be making and giving them cheaply are basically cell phones that you can hook up to a TV and keyboard and use as a computer.

How are these cell phones getting recharged?
What about people who don't have a TV and/or Keyboard?

Both TV and Keyboard cost extra. Plus the cell phone won't be free either. And Telcos need to be paid for someone to use their cellphone network too. Many things Mr. Gates does not mention.

IMO, the only reason Bill came up with this ridiculous idea is because he was felt left out by MIT. There is this reputable university that thinks no MS technology is good enough to help the 3d world. Must have hurt Bill's ego quite a bit.

Re:Throwing Stones

[ackthpt]

My first computer, a Sinclair ZX-80 was not the most useful machine but it got me writing machine code to so the RF encoder to my television showed "HELLO WORLD".

Precisely.

Many of us in computers for 20+ years didn't have internet. many didn't even have 300 baud modems. We started with Apples, Ataris, Commodores, Sinclairs, etc. and learned. Then when the internet came along, in the earliest fashion, we collaborated. You have to get these people started somewhere and he's discounting all that. Odd, that's where that bugger started, too. Short memory he has. Also the visionary who didn't give much throught to the Internet when he wrote his first famous tome "The Road Ahead"

Bill's worth listening to, but who in their right mind would assume everything he utters is wise?

Re:Throwing Stones

[booyabazooka]

What is it about cell phones that he thinks will be innately better than other machines? I think the majority of us don't realize that the "cheap" phones we carry around are generally several-hundred-dollar devices that we've paid for through inflated service costs.

Some sort of wireless infrastructure, yes. But phones? How about just taking that $100 laptop and slapping an RF transmitter on it?

The fine line between good and evil

[Mattygfunk1]

It's fascinating where the generous and charitable Bill Gates ends, and the ruthless businessman Bill Gates begins.

You would hope with his experience in the public eye, that he would have learnt that nobel efforts to help the less fortunate should be encouraged. Good luck to MIT and anyone associated with the project.

__
Funny Porn @ Laugh DAILY

Re:The fine line between good and evil

[RenHoek]

Well, it goes without saying that they won't ship with Vista. This will add to the Linux market share significantly, even though there are no profits generated by putting linux on those laptops. But it will hurt the graphs though. The PR department will hate it.

And if Billy Boy is one thing, he's a PR man.

Re:The fine line between good and evil

[kuzb]

I don't think he cares about the PR. He's right, these $100 computers are not going to do anything to feed these people. Without food, how are they going to find the energy to turn the crank on that thing? Hell, many of these places are so poor that $100 may as well be $100,000 - for some of these people, $100 is two months of wages. For others, it's simply unattainable.

I think considering what Gates has contributed to these places that perhaps, just perhaps, we should save the foaming at the mouth comments and have a serious look at what he's saying. There may be better solutions to the world's problems but I don't see anyone here attempting to arrive at them.

You can't eat a $100 computer. Even one with a crank.

Re:The fine line between good and evil

[G00F]

Gates would not be speaking out on this, and so harshly, if it doesn't compete with something he wants to do. And he was not talking about food when he was talking about the cost of software and support staff.

These laptops can't run any version of windows let alone Vista.
He has the xbox, what is to say he wont extend it's capabilities

This is his PR to shoot something down that is competition for him somehow.

Re:The fine line between good and evil

[flyingsquid]

It's fascinating where the generous and charitable Bill Gates ends, and the ruthless businessman Bill Gates begins.

Maybe they're the same guy. He may be right about $100 laptops not being terribly useful- personally I think they are the solution to the wrong problems (in the short term I would say the needs are clean water water, improved productivity of farms, roads, medical care, and electricity; in the long term, security, better governance, literacy, economic growth). Laptops would be useful, but may distract from more pressing issues, so I think that's a legitimate worry.

However, I wonder if part of him longs for global domination on the charity/nonprofit front just as much as on the corporate front. Maybe his hypercompetitive nature just can't stand a rival, even when it comes to giving stuff away instead of selling it.

Hypocrites

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot made fun of this. Now Gates made fun of it. Now we will see Slashdot slam Gates for making fun of it.

Re:Hypocrites

[mgblst]

Slashdot is not a "diversity of opinion".
 
Yes, it is. (I think I just proved my point!)

Re:Hypocrites

[timster]

Dude, right on this page we have a bunch of people saying that Gates is right, and we have people saying that he's right of the wrong reasons, and we have people saying he's wrong. And we have you saying that there is no diversity of opinion and predicting that everyone will bash Gates. Feeling silly?

I would criticize Gates..

[bwd]

But he has put his money where his mouth is concerning helping needy children. He hasn't sold them $100 computers, but he has given away for free various medicines worth billions of dollars over many years. So I think his criticism should be seen in that context. I think he's expressing genuine concern.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[WolfWithoutAClause]

Yes, the fact that he wouldn't make any money on this laptop, when he previously suggested that windows would be a good idea, has nothing to do with his comments. His comments shouldn't be seen in this context at all. That would be wrong.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[Anonymous Coward]

And if the $100 computer people want to have the last laugh, they can stop issuing press releases and giving each other awards and start making the damn things.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[pubjames]

I think he's expressing genuine concern.

No, I think they are dumb comments that show Gates is completely out of touch with the realities of education in developing countries. So he gives money to charities? So what. Is that such a big deal for someone who has so much of it?

A little personal story about MS. I used to work for an educational organisation in the UK. We were working with Microsoft on a project to demonstrate Microsoft software to schools, in return they were giving the org I was working for some free software. In discussion with their head of marketing to the education sector, I raised the point that the demonstrations weren't actually very good from a educational perspective. He said to me condescendingly - "Microsoft is not interested in education, we just want schools to buy our software". That kind of sums up MS for me.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[babbling]

That's a load of crap. When Microsoft was trying to get involved in this project, he thought it was great.

Now that the organisation making this laptop has rejected Microsoft, it's crap? Forgive me for being paranoid, but I don't think that's genuine concern...

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[everphilski]

Let's see... several months ago he offered to supply a custom build of Windows free of charge for this machine. I don't see how he'd make any money off that venture.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[WolfWithoutAClause]

He would get future sales off products like Microsoft Office, and it would give people a clear upgrade path to desktops and more expensive laptops which run XP etc.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[Bombula]

Through his foundation he's been extremely generous, but most efforts up to now have been directed at diseases, which I would call a symptom of societal ill-health. In other words, diseases like malaria and typhoid and polio are consequences of other underlying problems: lack of utility infrastructure (water, power, telecom) and social development infrastructure (education, health care facilities).

It may be tha Bill Gates regards infrastructure problems as the jurisdiction of governments, but if I had $50 Billion to spend on improving quality of life in the developing world, I would spend it addressing the underlying infrastructure problems first.

And lastly, improving health care and handing out food could create a population explosion - it will of course save lives in the short run, but in the long run more people may die if they are born into a situation where there is no infrastructure. For example, in today's news there is rioting and fighting in Kenya over water shortages.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[Rxke]

So... Initially he liked the idea. Must be so, otherwise he wouldn't have offered a free version of Windows? And now the $100 computer suddenly has become a mockery?

Hmmm... I wonder why that change of heart? /Sarcasm/

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[bobintetley]

...start making the damn things.

I think they maybe already.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[Vo0k]

Routes the money travel:

x  3rd world country Government
x |||software               |
x |||maintenance           XXX not enough money for hospitals
x |||contracts              v
x  V
x Microsoft --charity---- > Poor kids
x  || marketing              |
x  || investments            | food
x  || taxes                  | medicines
x   V                        |
x U S A <--------------------+

Of course charity gives good publicity.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[PitaBred]

OSS software never stops being free. You have no such assurances with Windows. I know if I were an African nation, I wouldn't want to be beholden to a monopolistic American company with a history of fucking over competitors and users.
And your implication that Windows is perfect on shipping is stupid, because it's far from it. Especially a custom-developed system. Ever see the problems that BMW had with their embedded systems? And they actually paid for that crap.

Re:I would criticize Gates..

[RetroGeek]

school children cranking away while they use their $100 computers to write apps

Maybe that would be crank to charge the battery, and THEN use the laptop?

The value of a dollar

[ExE122]

Well of course, its only a couple hundred dollars more... I could've easily afforded that when I was a kid and spent three years saving up for an $80 used nintendo console.

And in other news, victims of Hurricane Katrina have finally returned to New Orleans to find that places of business have shut down and their homes have been destroyed.

When asked how he felt about people that are homeless, Bill Gates commented, "Their house got destroyed? So why don't they just buy another one? Boy, some people are just stupid!"

Gates then proceded to laugh at a little boy who's family was on welfare. "He was so skinny! Why didn't he just eat something? Boy, some people are just stupid".

He then wiped his ass with a 100 dollar bill and lit it on fire in front of a blue-collar laborer.

Urge to Kill ....

[eldavojohn]

... rising ... RISING ....

This article is clearly flamebait. So allow me to participate in the opening salvo.

I think it's interesting how Gates proposes a solution where we need to put people to support the product, thereby charging money indefinitely. Keep your customers dependant, it's his tried and true component to his business model.

Perhaps Gates (and his wife Malinda) are satisfied with vaccinations and hand outs. Things like food, clothing, water, etc. While these things are very helpful in the short run, they unfortunately result in the poor remaining dependant on you for more hand outs. This is convenient if you wish yourself to be seen as a provider.

What's more valuable to you, food or a tool that could possibly help you learn how to procure food indefinitely. These laptops could be very valuable communication devices. Sometimes, it's just an open dialogue with someone intelligent that sparks the learning process.

It seems like Gates is walking up to someone who desperately needs just basic transportation and telling them that a $1,000 junker isn't what they need. They need a high performance Dodge Viper with a personal mechanic to maintain it. Broadband connection? Why? I thought I read that these $100 laptops were going to have radio frequency repeaters so that information could be sent from laptop to laptop and act as routers for each other.

You know, even if these laptops are mediocre or even a complete failure, at least someone tried to provide the tools to escape poverty permanently.

Either Gates thinks that poor equals stupid or he's got something against MIT. These must have been some very hastily made remarks--think before you speak no matter how rich you are. It also doesn't help that the article implied he recommends a Microsoft "Ultra-Mobile" laptop instead (costing 6 to 10 times more).

Re:Urge to Kill ....

[AKAImBatman]

It seems like Gates is walking up to someone who desperately needs just basic transportation and telling them that a $1,000 junker isn't what they need. They need a high performance Dodge Viper with a personal mechanic to maintain it. Broadband connection? Why? I thought I read that these $100 laptops were going to have radio frequency repeaters so that information could be sent from laptop to laptop and act as routers for each other.

The key thing to understand about Bill Gates is that he isn't a technologist. Sure, the general populace believes that he's the smartest man in the world, but the truth is that he has absolutely no vision what-so-ever. If you read his books (e.g. The Road Ahead), he proposes mostly fanciful ideas that might have come out of a SciFi article from 30 years ago. Actual concepts about why his ideas are useful, the reasons why the implementation will work, etc. are all missing from his books.

What people need to realize is that Bill Gates is a ruthless business man who knows how to be in the right place at the right time. He made his entire fortune by embracing other people's ideas and extending them to be successful in the market. Everything from the Altair port of BASIC, to purchasing a CP/M ripoff to sell IBM as DOS, to announcing a non-existant "Windows" to compete with VisiOn, to cheating Spyglass out of a web browser to compete with Netscape. He doesn't know what will work until someone else shows him how. Then, and only then, does he make sure he nails the market before anyone else does.

Don't listen to Bill Gates. He has nothing useful or insightful to say. And I sincerely doubt that most people here really want to follow in his footsteps, even if it does mean becoming one of the richest men in the world.

Re:Urge to Kill ....

[serginho]

Perhaps Gates (and his wife Malinda) are satisfied with vaccinations and hand outs. Things like food, clothing, water, etc. While these things are very helpful in the short run, they unfortunately result in the poor remaining dependant on you for more hand outs. This is convenient if you wish yourself to be seen as a provider.

Well, I don't know where you live, and I really don't care, but let me guess: you have never seen poor people with your own eyes, have you?

These things like food, clothing, water and a *very long* etc. may well result in dependency. They are really useful in the "short run", and you know why? Life is very short indeed if you have no access to these "things". Without these "things", human beings die. And, as far as I know, people have no use for computers in the afterlife.

So please, stop making everything about Evil Bill. It may get you quickly modded as "insightful" in Slashdot, but not much more than that.

Re:Urge to Kill ....

[voteforkerry78]

He definetely has nothing against MIT. He donated $20 million towards their Stata Center and got a tower named after him. The Stata Center contains MIT's CS and AI Lab, Lab for Information Decision Systems, and their Dept. of Linguistics and Philosophy. It has really crazy architecture, and computer scientists aren't very fond of it because of "wasted space."

Re:Urge to Kill ....

[eldavojohn]

Well, I don't know where you live, and I really don't care, but let me guess: you have never seen poor people with your own eyes, have you?

I spent the first 20 years of my life below the poverty line on various forms of social programs. College was my escape route. While this was in the United States, I am aware of the severity in other countries. My friends regularly go to Tanzania to teach children and show me pictures. I do not have the luxury to spend that much money to help people.

These things like food, clothing, water and a *very long* etc. may well result in dependency. They are really useful in the "short run", and you know why? Life is very short indeed if you have no access to these "things". Without these "things", human beings die. And, as far as I know, people have no use for computers in the afterlife.

You, sir, are a presumptuous ass. I never said not to give these things to them. What I would like to see is efforts in both areas. Gates gives billions, surely he can donate a million to an area to try out the laptops.

1,000,000/100 = 10,000

Try it out, validate it. Continue to give immediate aid but work towards helping them help themselves. Shift the funds and try new ideas. What we're doing now isn't solving anything in the long run.

Re:Urge to Kill ....

[lawpoop]

I spent ten weeks with a poor, indigenous family in Ecuador in a university field study program. They lived on the banks of a river in thatch-roof, plywood floor huts. They farmed food to eat and coffee and cocoa to sell. Some of the men had jobs in the city -- menial jobs. They had no education, and since they were "Indians", nobody is going to give them a decent job. (Because, you know, they are always late, they steal, etc.)

However , if they get sick, they are screwed. They have no money for doctors. All you do is lie in a hut and have a shaman literally blow smoke over you, maybe wave some leaves. People frequently die from illness.

What your talking about is emergency relief. Yes, without food, people die. That's what's needed in famine, earthquake, war, etc. However, poor != desperate. Poor people have some kind of hook-up for food, whether it be the garden, a job, or a relative. However, if you start giving them food, they re-adjust thier strategy -- they might quit the job to be with the children, they might stop working in the garden. Then, when the free-food dries up, they have to re-jigger their life again.

If you give them food, they are dependent on you. They have no control over that part of their life. However, if you give them something like a cell-phone or a fishng pole, they can setup a new 'income' stream in thier life that they are in control of. That is empowerment and improvement.

We are at step 2

[dc29A]

1 - They ignore you
2 - They ridicule you
3 - They fight you
4 - You win

Re:We are at step 2

[Kjella]

Which is a great saying in hindsight. If you won, before you won they probably fought you, before that they ridiculed you and before that they ignored you. However, very few reach step 4 and many fall off at each step. So what does step 2 get you? A clown can get to step 2. That doesn't mean he's ever going to win, only that he's good entertainment. If I decided to throw a punch at a bodybuilder I'd be at step three. Wohoo so much closer to victory - not. I get really really tired of people that talk like there's some sort of automatic progression which will eventually end up at victory.

What did you expect

[Tweekster]

Gates was never a real visionary. Excellent business man right from the very beginning but he never really had the visionary spirit. It brings up the debated comment about memory, it is dumb to most people, but really it isnt that dumb of a comment, just a lack of vision in what could come next. He knows business, not technology, he just happens to be in the tech business. He could have just as easily been in a different business and been very successful

Re:Talk is cheap Mr Gates

[bwd]

He's donated billions of dollars worth of medicine to children all over Africa and elsewhere. If anyone in this world has "put up or shut up," it's Mr. Gates. He is expressing genuine concern.

Of course he's mocking the idea

[Billosaur]

They're running Linux on these things aren't they? No market share for Microsoft.

Gates has valid points, but they're overshadowed by his oafishness. And it's really strange given the amount of money he pours into Africa every year. Bizarre.

For real

[gEvil (beta)]

For real. I mean, why hand-crank those things? Why don't they just plug them into the power outlets in the wall? I see about 6 or 7 outlets from where I'm sitting. I would assume that everyone everywhere else in the world has the exact same resources available to them that I do...

Said Gates...

[bcarl314]

'...geez, get a decent computer where you can actually read the text and you're not sitting there cranking the thing while you're trying to type,' Gates said.'

You forgot to add "from his Windows CE powered PDA IM message"

Gates is right.. to a degree

[cybrthng]

You don't solve the problem of 3rd world technology and computing by dumbing it down and providing a tool that does a few things. You go in and build infrastructure, support the communities and develop them from the ground up.

The future of computing isn't wind up "puters" that can send email, it's rich clients, broadband and infrastructure. For the cost of R&D, support, delivery and maintenance on these you could easily give these countries wireless broadband infrastructure, jobs and start building up economies and getting "real" services in instead of giving them a bone and hoping they're happy with it.

i could go to toys r us and buy toys more powerful and less costly than these wind up devices.

good idea.. i guess so for what they're trying to do but it seems like a horrible waste of talent to dumb things down because we don't want to help these countries get where they need to be but find some way to make money off them and hope they enjoy a dumbed down device.

What a jackass...

[kotj.mf]

FTFA:

"The last thing you want to do for a shared use computer is have it be something without a disk ... and with a tiny little screen," Gates said at the Microsoft Government Leaders Forum in suburban Washington.

...

Before his critique, Gates showed off a new "ultra-mobile computer" which runs Microsoft Windows on a seven-inch (17.78-centimeter) touch screen.

Those machines are expected to sell for between $599 and $999, Microsoft said at the product launch last week.

Indeed. I mean, how are poor, illiterate masses supposed to install Office (tm) on those things? Or run Windows Media Player(tm)?

Clearly, since the only reason for anybody to use a computer is to provide a justification for spending money on Microsoft products, the sub-$100 idea is just goofy.

So it is a good idea then?

[db32]

It seems that almost all of the technology that Gates has mocked has come back and bit him on the ass. We all know that the Internet is just a fad, noone needs that much memory, and so on. While some of the claims to quotes are questionable, the pattern still exists. He mocks alot of things he didn't come up with first. I fail to understand the hero worship this asshat gets from the general populace. They assume he is some kind of computer genious. He really is little more than a very good business man/thief.

No Kidding

[KarateExplosions]

If these people are so damned impoverished, why don't they get off their lazy asses and go to the ATM machine and withdraw $200 in twenty dollar bills? And these children are starving to death? Here's an idea for them: Go to McDonalds and order a Double Quarater Pounder Extra Value Meal. That's, like, a half pound of meat. And as for these kids needing computers, I think it's high time they pulled themselves up by the bootstraps, went to newegg, and built a decent computer for around $500. Jesus, how else are they going to manage their stock portfolios?

Not really.

[Vo0k]

Slashdot didn't make fun of the computers, it was more of disbelief - the project is very ambitious and $100 price tag seems to be unreachable. Lots of us, /. nerds would love to get that thing, but we see it as vaporware, a dream that won't come true.

On the other hand, Gates is mocking the strengths of the idea and shows real shortsightedness. He says the cost is network and software, which is bullshit. The software is to be Linux so no real cost here. The network doesn't need to be broadband, and likely won't be - and the bandwidth can be donated by country using existing data lines, HAM radio and different other really cheap options. A single broadband line for whole school, it's neither expensive nor impossible. The remaining BIG cost is the hardware and only a guy with several $bln on his account can consider it negligible. Gates imagines this: OS: $150. Broadband line: $300 installing, $30/month. Other software (MS Office, antivirus, anti-spyware etc) $200. So why not round it up to $1000 with the hardware. The guys at MIT think: OS: $0. Software: $0. Network: old HAM radio: $0 (donated), old 2nd hand modem $5, bandwidth govt-sponsored. Hardware: $100.

$100 may be a year or two of hard saving for an average family in some countries. $1000 is for most of them completely out of reach.

So either aim at this unrealistic $100 (and maybe laugh with us about how vaporware this is) or just give up.

Re:Not really.

[Vo0k]

"how is some poor backwoods village supposed to figure out how to use some ancient HAM equipment? "

Just the same as they were were using it for the last 60 years, using the same equipment Africa Corps left in their village during IIWW. Such people are very resourceful and as long as you don't forbid them to solve problems, they can solve them themselves. For most of Africa HAM radio is the primary method of world connectivity, and likely using it for some low-bandwidth connectivity would be quite possible. Of course not that every single family would have a radio, but, say, the school downloads updates and software then distributes it on a floppy to the kids with laptops. Enough to help learning...

Re:Talk is cheap Mr Gates

[db32]

Except when it comes to tech. Then he tries to gouge these people. Look at the nambia.net stories of MS "generosity". I don't see his donations as much more than PR. Its great that these people are getting this food/medicine/money. But really, the motivations need to be examined before you declare this guy as anything genuine.

bill melinda called.

[blackest_k]

seriously melinda isn't going to be happy with him
she spends all that time trying to make him a decent human being and he throws it back.

you know what would have had wow factor if instead of mocking this project he put some money into it.

so what if it doesnt run windows surely there's no need to assimulate or destroy everything.

now that would have been good publicity and maybe improve microsofts image.

wonder what mr jobs take is on the 100 dollar laptop..

Bill Gates is now officially a bitch

[mwvdlee]

Gates is just spreading the usual FUD. He seems to "misinterpret" the simple facts and spins till they're dizzy.

Shared: It's "One Laptop per Child"; no sharing.

Diskless: The machine has peer-to-peer networking built in; disks would be slower.

Tiny screen: It's a bigger screen than my PocketPC. And I bet 6 of those screens are bigger than his 6x more expensive "alternative".

Network cost: It's got builtin wireless networking; no network expenses needed.

Application cost: That's why they didn't choose Windows.

Support cost: It's a total package; if it's broken in either HW or SW, replace the entire machine and fix the broken one centralized.

Broadband connection: Because these educational systems are meant to be used for downloading the latest movies? Besides, the wireless network will probably be a lot faster than the 56k6 modems a lot of people are still using.

Reading what you type: That's where the dual-mode LCD screen comes in; something a "decent computer" hasn't got...

Crank: ...and being able to actually power it without an outlet would help readability too. The crank is only one of several ways to provide power, it can also get powered just like a "decent computer".

I think that debunks all of Gates' lies.

He tried to help...

[everphilski]

He has through his own and other charities. Perhaps you missed it, Gates and Bono were Time's 2005 "People of the Year" for their charitable work.

Gates offered his advice and help with the $100 notebook. (this was on /. late last year...) He had some ideas on the design of the device: no only that he also offered a free custom version of Windows for the machine. Negroponte very rudely ran Gates off. This is tit for tat if you ask me, but of course being /., Negroponte and the $100 notebook can do no harm and Gates is Satan, incarnate...

Duh

[petra13]

have somebody there who can help support the user

Says Gates, who makes billions off of support for hideously expensive software.

Useless for Vista

[babbling]

Well, yeah, it's useless for Vista. It turns out that poor people don't need eye-candy or bloat.

Bill Gates is just annoyed that this laptop isn't running Windows. Microsoft was originally trying to get involved in this project, but they were not accepted, so now they're FUDing it.

Re:Useless for Vista

[mrchaotica]

so now they're FUDing it.

Exactly. He's just pissed that the computer is going to run only Free Software.

The reality is that Gates is blatantly lying when he says that applications and network connectivity are a bigger part of the cost than the hardware. First, the applications are (big and little-f) Free. Second, the network connectivity is free as well, because these things are designed to make their own mesh network.

Re:Useless for Vista

[mrchaotica]

But the software is mostly done (presumably they're just going to use Squeak on top of Linux, or something), and at any rate there's no per-copy cost associated with it like Gates would want you to believe.

Re:Useless for Vista

[Monkeyboy4]

It's only a cost if you think of your time as a monetized commodity. Which we in the US have been trained to due by thinking of hourly wages and billable time.

With OSS on teh little benjamin PC, any user can modify and improve the OS and any program on there.
With OSS software, they are providing a structured but changeable environment for the users. this may not work for the peopel that techies usually think of as end users, but for as many grandmas and word procesors there are yet exposed to computers, there are also some hard core coders out there tha have yet to realize they are hard core coders.

And they would love to spend hours nad hours programming to learn and create their own markets

Re:Useless for Vista

[mrchaotica]

Wow, not only are you wrong, but you're also an asshole! According to the slashdot summary, Gates mentioned 3 things: network connection cost, application cost, and support cost. He said these separately, meaning that he claims there is a per-copy cost to BUY the software. This claim is false. I made no mention of the third part, which is support cost; you're the one who read something in my post that wasn't there!

Re:Useless for Vista

[natrius]

For some perspective on how far the software is from done, read this blog about some of the issues the OLPC team is facing.

Re:Useless for Vista

[1u3hr]

Gates's contempt is well placed.

Gates had contempt for the Internet. He thought that free content was for hippies. He has contempt for free software for the same reason. Gates' contempt is simply an indicator of somethng he either doesn't get or sees as a threat.

Re:Useless for Vista

[mrchaotica]

The network connection on these things is mostly intended to be used for stuff like email (as opposed to web browsing or games or VoIP), so it will use store-and-forward like UUCP. In other words, even if the mesh isn't connected to the Internet at the time you send your message, your message will be stored (presumably on a "master node" or something) and will be forwarded the next time it does have a connection.

The example used on the website about this I read involved a kid riding a bike with a server strapped to it between villages, transferring messages as it goes.

Re:Useless for Vista

[nebedaay]

I've spent several years in developing countries and I can confidently say that most people think about a lot more than just where to get their next bowl of rice. Many young people spend a lot of their time and money at cybercafes and trying to learn about computers. I had a research grant that allowed me to employ a number of people part-time, and the first thing nearly all of them bought with their salaries was a crappy computer.

I don't know if this current initiative will work, but I think it is important to give interested people a chance to participate in the information age. And if people in the developing world are exposed to Linux and open source before they're exposed to Windows and proprietary software, they won't be tied to Windows by habits and legacy problems as many computer users in America and Europe are. I personally applaud this effort to bring the benefits of Linux to the masses and to get the world started with a sustainable operating system instead of letting them get addicted to Microsoft.

Gates probably doesn't care as much about whether he's making money off these particular people as that this threatens to introduce a whole generation to something other than Windows.

Are you kidding me?

[jcostantino]

Seriously, are you fucking KIDDING me? Sure it's useless to families who can afford to buy $1000 computers and call tech support when their computer blows up from spyware and they can't connect to the internet because their DSL is down. Yeah, it's next to worthless to people who can afford better.

This is for 3rd world and 2nd world countries where they can't afford "real" PCs with "real" OS's and most likely don't have a phone line to use dialup internet or even be able to call up Dell or HP or whoever. This needs to "just work" and by "just work" be able to relay to others who have net access, be able to work without batteries or mains power and be able to perform its tasks without spyware and viruses corrupting the OS.

Obviously he wants to pitch a solution with XP or CE because that's where he makes his money... hell, even if hardware were a minor cost - which apparently it ISN'T since there is a huge difference between a standard laptop and this one - is he really going to give away XP/CE and Office? Hell no! He wants his piece of the pie and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is that he doesn't understand that the target audience for this laptop are people who have probably never seen a laptop, much less used a computer.

I'd hate to be there when the villagers are using their HP notebooks and the battery craps out. They would probably use it for kindling after that.

Shipping Cost

[good soldier svejk]

I recently acquired a couple of older laptops to send to aquaintances in Zimbabwe. They both run pretty well, except for dead battaries of course. However, DHL wants $300 to send the heavier one to Victoria falls. I paid a total of $100 for the two computers. Parcel Post would only be $80 (for six week deilvery), but you can't send things through the Zimbabwean post office and expect them to reach their destination. Hopefully I can get the cost down by removing and mailing the batteries, paring down the pachaging and just shipping the valuable bits by reliable carrier. But for now, the barrier to me giving away laptops in south central Africa is shipping cost.

Gates was incorrectly quoted...

[Zaatxe]

...he didn't say "If they have no bread, then let them eat cake!", that was Maria Antoinette. What Gates really said was "If they can't read well in those small screens $100 laptops have, let them have a decent computer! (A $500-$1000 Origami, maybe?)". He also said "If they can't type and cranck the thing at the same time, let them plug a decent computer in a outlet, which must be avaliable in any house in third world countries". After all, what is $1000 for a third world country child? Is it something that could feed their families for about a year? Oh, yes, it is!

One point Gates seemed to miss here is that the lack of capacity of the machines and their low price is also a way to avoid them to be robbed or sold.

Re:This is because Microsoft isn't involved.

[Mac Degger]

Did you see how he's saying that the hardware is cheap, but what is costly is connectivity, applications and support?

Oddly enough, the exact reasons Windows was snubbed on the project. With an open source OS, the applications are free too, and the internet is your helpdesk.

Oh, and hardware IS expensive, especially for the people the thing is targetted at.

Way to slip that one in there Bill

[snowwrestler]

adding that the big costs come from network connectivity, applications and support

Applications don't have to have big costs associated with them.

I'll tell you something

[DrXym]

If these handcranked machines were selling for $200 tomorrow in a consumer model, I'd buy one like a shot. Bill can scoff, but a rugged device with a keyboard that requires no power supply and can do wireless and simple productivity tasks is a KILLER DEVICE. I can well imagine these things becoming almost the iPods of the the computing world. The likes of Starbucks would be filled with people using these things, taking them out of their bags, cranking them up for instant browsing goodness with just enough juice for a coffee or two. The great part is they're so cheap and sturdy that you wouldn't need to carry them around like newborn children - just throw them into the bag with your other stuff and away you go.

I reckon if anything that Bill is scared because if these things ever did become consumer devices that his shitty Origami project would go down the tubes just like all their predecessors. After all, how many would buy some lousy pen device costing thousands when something costing a tenth could do all they need.

It's not just consumers either. I can well see these things being useful in warehouses and other places where you need computer access but not the bother of having devices on charge all the time.

When he says 'costs'

[rsilvergun]

what he means to says is profits. For a well designed computer the software and support is pretty cheap. Networking? Last I checked a chunch of removable media in the mail still had more bandwidth than any broadband you care to name, and that's dirt cheap. OTOH, providing software in need of constant upgrades and support and fun but uncecessary networking services is prtty damn profitable. I guess if gobs of money's my aim, I'd be selling cheap wintel boxen too.

America does more for Africa than Europe...

[DAldredge]

PRIVATE American citizens donated almost 15 times more to the developing world than their European counterparts, research reveals this weekend ahead of the G8 summit. Private US donors also handed over far more aid than the federal government in Washington, revealing that America is much more generous to Africa and poor countries than is claimed by the Make Poverty History and Live 8 campaigns.

Church collections, philanthropists and company-giving amounted to $22bn a year, according to a study by the Hudson Institute think-tank, easily more than the $16.3bn in overseas development sent by the US government. American churches, synagogues and mosques alone gave $7.5bn in 2003 - a figure which exceeds the government totals for France ($7.2bn) and Britain ($6.3bn) - according to numbers from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development which deal a blow to those who claim moral superiority over the US on aid.

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=7306 52005

I agree with you to a point, but..

[Marc2k]

..if you're going to spend resources to build infrastructure in 3rd world countries, how about we spend it on more practical infrastructure. For instance, if you or Bill Gates are against $100 laptops for their silly cranks, instead of suggesting we build a country-wide infrastructure for wireless networking, how about suggest we build a country-wide infrastructure for electricity. Or clean water. Or vaccinations. Etc, etc, etc.

In the context of spending money on dumbed-down laptops, your idea is tops; however, when you broaden the scope a bit, you're still faced with some of the problems they tried to address in the $100 laptop project (i.e. adding a crank to power the laptop, because electricity isn't available 24 hours a day in their area..how frustrating would it be knowing that you don't have power, but you do have wireless connectivity?)

100% flame

[caffeination]

Dumbed down? These machines are a work of networking genius. And they run fucking Linux, which frees them up completely.

Anything you've seen calling this an attempt to "solve the problem of 3rd world technology and computing" was market speak. This is no different to anything else - a step forward.

Infrastructure? These laptops are infrastructure. And I can't think of anything more "from the ground up" than KIDS.

Wireless broadband infrastructure? And what do you propose they connect to this wireless broadband? Sounds like your fantasy world is a step ahead of the rest of us.

I'm sick to death of smug Slashdotters pissing on this project as if they know better than MIT and the UN.

Re:100% flame

[niXcamiC]

Seeing as I actualy live in a 3rd world country, I can say that the UN usualy knows CRAP, and that many of their aid programs cause more harm than help.

Hubris before the fall

[Craig Maloney]

If Mr. Gates thinks kids won't sit typing into too small a screen, I'd suggest he take a look at the kids texting madly into their phones.

It is we who are the dinosaurs, Mr. Gates.

But a small screen Oragami is good? I'm confused.

[Anonymous Coward]

So why is a small screen computer that cost $500-$1000 a good thing? Talk about open mouth insert foot!
If a small screen is a bad thing Bill just came out with the most assine product ever by his own admission. There goes another $100 million to pointless R&D instead of the foundation.

Deep vs. Broad Education

[Maximum Prophet]

There was one commenter who had been to Africa multiple times that said the problem was with the wrong kind of education. Western teachers would go to an area and teach the best and brightest. These people would take there educations and leave, never to return. While deep education was helping individuals, it was actually hurting the communities.

What Africa needs is broad education. Take a few simple concepts and teach it to everyone. The $100 notebook could help this. (or hurt) Rather than supplying a villiage with one supper bang-up machine with a satellite broadband connection so that a few individuals can get enough knowledge to leave, the small laptops provide a framework that many people can use to communicate sharing their knowledge. These things are supposed to have a wireless systems built in so that they can connect to each other in a mesh. Sounds like just what they need.

Valid Point

[XMilkProject]

The man makes a very valid point.

Hardware is an insignificant part of the problem. The infrastructure should be where the focus is.

If we could get cheap electric generators, water purifies, and telecommunications (sat uplink?) then I'm pretty confident we could find them some hardware to take advantage of those things.

There are millions, make that billions, of old computers laying around that can be donated or sold for far less than $100, and why do they need laptops anyway? So they can carry them to their big business meeting? A schoolhouse with some desktops and an electric generator is much more useful.

I really can't see the purpose of getting people these $100 laptop when there is no communications infrastructure. What good is the computer if they can't get online. The huge benefit of getting them on the web is so that they can have access to piles of information that was otherwise completely inaccessible to them. Books, news, events, all uncensored and up to date.

Without the communications infrastructure they can use the computer for what? Typing? Why would they need to make nice documents or excel files when they don't even have electricity? Couldn't they just use paper?

Re:Valid Point

[utexaspunk]

these devices have mesh networking. that means after all the kids go to bed, their parents can crank them up, get on their local AfricaDot or whatever, and discuss how they will go about building infrastructure, starting a business, overthrowing the government, etc. could be handy...

Re:Not such a saint ....

[Maxo-Texas]

Education only breaks the bonds of poverty when most people are not educated.

When everyone has a master's degree, they are almost worthless.

The reason these people are starving and in poverty is their culture. Until their culture changes, they are likely to remain starving and in poverty. They are just as smart as the rest of the world but they have values and beliefs which are destroying them.

It's IMPORTANT

[Mr. Lucas Brice]

I think it's important to provide kids in underpriveleged countries, like Nigeria, with cheap laptops so they can learn how to do 419 scams at an early age. The money stolen from Americans and Europeans can only help the local economies.

Umm...

[Tony Hoyle]

"The last thing you want to do for a shared use computer is have it be something without a disk ... and with a tiny little screen"

lol. Did old billy gates just slander one of his own products unintentionally?

They just announced something just like that last week... of course they don't want $100 for it.. more like $1000

Cellphones in the Philippines

[daviddennis]

I just returned from a trip to the Philippines, where Internet cafes were plentiful and seemed to attract plenty of customers. Some of them were filipino nerds and others were filipinas looking to snag a Western husband or boyfriend. Still, they are beyond the reach of most; employed Filipinas make about 200 pesos [US$ 4] a day, making Internet fees of 25 pesos [$0.50] an hour prohibitively expensive.

Cellphones are generally prepaid and you buy "load" in packs of 100 pesos [$2] and up. A text message, the most common mode of communication, costs one peso [$0.02].

For middle class Filipinas, cellphones are major status symbols. I met several people with cellphones that cost 13,000 pesos [$260] and up. These phones are actually quite a bit nicer than the cellphones I've seen in common use in the US. The most common seems to be the Nokia 6630, with a nice big clear color screen, a camera and bluetooth. I could imagine using it for SSH in a pinch. Its user interface looks slick but I found it quite difficult to learn how to use. A lot of tiny buttons with almost invisible labelling made it very difficult to figure out how to get to places you might have fumbled yourself to minutes before. I suspect that if I'd had more time using it I really would have liked it, probably more than my T-Mobile Sidekick.

A Filipina is never without her cellphone. It is such a significant part of her life that westerners with romantic or even friendship connections with her can get jealous of the phone! I started calling it Celly, and treated it like a member of the family. I even took pictures of Celly like she was another family member. My picture of "Celly Eating" while she was on the charger got laughs from everyone! My Filipina friends laughed and enjoyed being asked about Celly's health!

Celly's health is a real concern; my friend with the 6630 got a multimedia message system virus. "Celly is very sick," I told her. I suggested we go to the Internet cafe and I would try to cure Celly. The mobile.f-secure.com web site has eradication tools as well as anti-virus software for Celly. Everyone was very impressed that I was able to cure Celly even though all I did was download and run the removal tool! The most difficult part of all this was trying to figure out how to access the web browser on the phone's convoluted user interface.

My friend, of course, later complained about her cellphone bill for data access, which skyrocketed thanks to Celly's illness. (The virus, of course, sends copies of itself to everyone it can find). I'm glad I was able to cure Celly for her before she faced even worse problems.

Of course most of the actual multimedia use of Celly was sending jokes, photos and funny cartoons and animations around to her friends. And most of her computer use was talking to foreigners in her quest for an American husband. My friend read her Yahoo mail on Celly but otherwise didn't make much use of the Internet features.

Sometimes I wonder about how these high-brow people pushing the $100 computer would think of the use real people make of this technology. Endless chats on the computer with foreigners, trying to lure them to the Philippines with promise of romance might not seem like the most idealistic use in the world. But I can tell you, it's the use that's going to be made as technology seeps into the third world.

Engagement in world affairs may be the exclusive province of people who still believe in some way in their government. Shortly after I left, there was a coup attempt in the Philippines which lead to a state of emergency. I was far more engaged in this than my Filipina friends. "That's just something going on in Manila [the capital]" was a typical comment.

In the US, I don't know if we really believe in our government all that much, but at least we consider the news as a source of entertainment. In the Philippines, the people have warmer relationships with each other and seem to have less need for this. They are desperately poor, a

First we say one thing, then we say another

[Illbay]

It seems to depend on the messenger.

A few days back we were arguing that a university shouldn't require students to purchase laptop computers, because "they only help you do schoolwork more efficiently, not better."

Ah, but now Bill Gates weighs in, and says the "hand-cranked" laptop would be useless for kids in impoverished countries, and we slap back at him for that.

How is it "bad" for a university student in the U.S. to be required to have a laptop computer--with the argument that it really doesn't "help him learn"--but it's GREAT to give this "$100 laptop" to a kid in the third world?

Is it because the second is "compassionate"? Or is it really because we don't want to be on the side of Bill Gates for any reason whatsoever?

Me, I say give each of these villages where the kids live, a small library with basic learning books in it. It would probably end up costing about $100 per kid anyway. But more to the point: A kid who is at the START of the learning curve is going to benefit more from the books than from the computer.

And yes, I DO believe the kids going to the U.S. university ought to have a laptop. It's an "age appropriate" learning tool.

Simple may be all that's needed...

[fahrbot-bot]

You don't solve the problem of 3rd world technology and computing by dumbing it down and providing a tool that does a few things.

Like a shovel, or an irrigation timer...

The flaw in your, and other, arguments supporting bigger infrastructure and more powerful machines as the solution is that it would be too much, too late. These things take time, money and a lot of effort for a good, but late return.

What would be a useless toy to us, could be just the ticket there. How productive were people using their computers 15 years ago vs. 25 years ago? Yes, Excel is waaay more powerful than VisiCalc, but do then need Excel? Hell, an 8086 running DOS applications would be more helpful than, say, nothing.

A simple email and browser capable system would allow people to research and exchange ideas with others around the world. Need information to fix a generator, build a water pump or irrigate a field -- google.

Email would allow messages to be sent at anytime, without having someone to monitor the HAM radio 24/7.

Sometimes, simple is better. Especially when the alternative is nothing.

Re:Talk is cheap Mr Gates

[sandmaninator]

I would add: What percentage of Gates' yearly income does he devote to charitable causes? In the US at least, it is the poor that give the highest percentage of their income to charitable causes:
http://www.newtithing.org/content/NTG_research_FIN AL.pdf

"If affluent young and middleaged [tax] filers had donated as high
a proportion of their investment asset wealth to charity in 2003 as did their less affluent peers, total individual charitable donations that year would have been over $25 billion higher, an increase of at least 17%."

I wish he would focus on funding the underlying causes of problems instead of the results of those problems. Instead of extending someone's wretched existance a short while longer, why not improve the infrastructure that these people live in? That would be a longer-term benefit.

If it's so useless then why did he offer Windows?

[jacoplane]

From Wikipedia: "Steve Jobs had offered Mac OS X free of charge for use in the laptop, but according to Seymour Papert, a professor emeritus at MIT who is one of the initiative's founders, the designers want an operating system that can be tinkered with: "We declined because it's not open source"[4]. Therefore Linux was chosen. Microsoft's Bill Gates has attempted to convince Negroponte to use a version of Microsoft Windows on the laptop, but Negroponte turned him down. Some of Negroponte's friends told him Microsoft might then attempt to craft its own version of the laptop, but he responded such a development would be "great", as it would speed up the process of delivering cheap laptops."

Maybe Microsoft is ticked off with MIT because they were too insistent on OSS, and they view that as a threat.

Gates Translation

[john82]

Shocker! Bill thinks this is a bad idea. Raise your hand if you're surprised.

What he's really saying is this:

"Hey, this has the potential for bringing computer use to a large population that cannot afford the current solution model. Microsoft is not part of this answer! Worse, Linux IS part of it. I better crank out some FUD or this idea may catch on elsewhere.

First off, 'poor people need broadband and a proper machine to run it on...' Yeah, that sounds good! Now, what else..."

Gates getting Old?

[HaydnH]

OK, either gates doesn't know anything about computing, which he obviously does starting M$ etc... He's getting old (possible, but unlikely)... or it's just FUD to try and sell the new MS based products over there instead:

"The last thing you want to do for a shared use computer is have it be something without a disk ... and with a tiny little screen," Gates said at the Microsoft Government Leaders Forum in suburban Washington.

"Hardware is a small part of the cost" of providing computing capabilities, he said, adding that the big costs come from network connectivity, applications and support.

Firstly, not having a disk is a perfect way to save money in a shared environment. These things aren't going to get perfectly looked after in the harsh living conditions some of these developing countries, and crime is common place. The hardware needs to be as cheap as possible so that if it gets damaged it can easily be replaced (straight swap instead of support needed) and to deter the thought of stealing them - imagine the security costs for all the computer ctr's in the developing world - further with regards to support, if all the applications are remote the support for those is easily managed in one place with good security!

The applications can be free - although he does have a relatively valid point re: screen size... but I don't think it's too much of an issue!

If it was good 5 years ago

[aplusjimages]

I remember laptops that had small screens and very little RAM and processor speed, but 10 years ago Americans used them to run businesses. In a poor country these would be cutting edge technology, but from the point of view of wealthy countries we couldn't imagine doing business on these machines even though we used to.

Normally...

[Belial6]

Normally, my opinion is that complaining about spelling is a sign that a person has nothing of substance to argue, and thus is really admitting defeat in a debate. I think that when the original poster gives the "I'm right because I'm educated" argument, and then specifically discusses how they would solve poor spelling, AND makes spelling errors, we have an exception.

Re:Normally...

[skam240]

I really don't think he is saying, "I'm educated so I'm right". It sounds far more like, "I've done some work in this area through my schooling (at a fairly advanced level) which establishes a descent level of familiarity with this material so here's my opinion". Stating one's credentials to establish that he or she has a certain level of knowledge on a subject is not the same as saying, "I'm right".

In regards to his spelling, being educated and having good spelling/grammar are not linked hand in hand. Furthermore, he is posting in an internet forum . I know this is extremely significant for many folks out there but for many others it's just a way to kill time. I know I frequently just quickly write out a post without checking spelling or grammar. I have other things to be doing with my self.

It seems this guy is getting trolled to death by petty complaints. I'm noticing none of the posts here even bother to address what he's actually saying before discrediting him.

Re:For the same reason people buy luxury cars

[DrXym]

Lot's of people do not want a hand-crank $200 device because it doesn't look cool, and it won't do EVERYTHING their $600 laptop can do.

I think it looks cool and I sure as hell know that millions of others would too. But putting cool aside, it's how practical it is that wows me. I'd never take my laptop away with me unless I was doing business work. It's too bulky, needs wires, a case etc. I absolutely hate leaving it in the hotel room. When I'm on holiday I still want some computing access in the hotel but I don't want to haul a laptop so my solution has been to use my PDA which does wireless browsing. But the browsing is pretty horrible and of course I can't type, making it a pain to enter a url or even respond to email.

I see these handcrank machines as being the perfect compromise between a PDA and a laptop - a machine with a keyboard & controller that is more than adequate for browsing, email, wordprocessing, spreadsheet, games etc. but in a small, light, rugged form factor and requires no cables. Toss them into your backpack. You could take a cable to charge it, but if you don't want to, you can still crank it. Better yet if its instant on as it probably would be if everything runs in memory.

I truly believe these things could take the market by storm. That assumes the OS and software works of course, but if it's running Linux, something like QTopia and has a few apps like an Opera or Firefox browser and KWord then I don't see why not.

If you want or need to use a $600 laptop then that's fine, but a lot of people wouldn't. And I specifically said Origami. I reckon that Bill perceives these cheap handcrank devices as a threat to his latest pen based windows device. These things cost a frigging fortune and every single previous pen based effort has flopped - the last one leaked so much memory you had to reboot it every day. The last thing he needs now is a device costing a tenth that does everything most of what a large portion of prospective Origami / laptop users actually want to do. The pen part is a gimmick anyway for most people. Of course there are other reasons he doesn't like it, but the timing suggests Origami as being the reason for this comment.

Of course all my enthusiasm is based on supposition. I'm hoping there will be a consumer version sometime this decade. I'm hoping that they won't screw it up in some way, or hike the price to $400. I'm hoping the OS won't suck. It might suck big time. But assuming they do everything right, and actually release and sell a commercial product cheaply enough, I think these things will be as ubiquitous as iPods.

$100 laptop IS doomed to fail...

[RexRhino]

People are ignoring the message because the messenger is Bill Gates.

Giving third world children crappy laptops is not going to do anything to help them. First of all, there WILL NOT BE ANY OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE for these laptops... the specs are too different from a normal PC to use normal open source software off the bat, and since the laptop is restricted for purchase to governments, you are not going to have any open source community of hobbiests or developers working on it. ONLY school kids and government officials will have access to these things. Where is the internet connectivity going to come from? Part of giving people laptops is allowing them to contact people in other countries, to establish possible buisness connections, to keep them up to date on weather or medical info, to help them trade seeds and capital goods to spur development, etc. It is a glorified e-book without internet connectivity.

What happens when a family, who makes $200 a year, decides that selling their $100 laptop and buying food is worth more than having a glorified e-book reader? How long is this laptop going to last? What happens if people lose it or it is stolen? What infrastructure is there to repair these things? Are these private property, or owned by the government?

If we really wanted to help the third world, we would stop giving huge amounts of aid and resources to local dictators, and end restrictions on trade and our huge farm subsidies that western countries use to undermind competition from farmers in the third world. The $100 laptop is a feelgood solution looking for a problem.

Starter Computer

[TheSimkin]

Seeing that this computer is extremely more powerful than the first computers I ever used, and most of us for that matter. I don't see why this is useless at all. You have to start learning about computers somewhere, why not on a cheap easily accessible computer that doesn't require electricity! I think Bill Gates fears one thing, more open source programmers! This project is bound to make quite a few of those :).

Adage revisited...

[Glove d'OJ]

I have always preferred:

Build a man a fire, and he is warm today.

Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Oh!

[wonkavader]

Well, before this I thought, based on the fact that students in the States do WORSE when they have computers than when they don't, that this was a bad idea.

But now that I see Bill Gates doesn't like it.

So it now has my full endorsement.

You're both wrong...

[bashibazouk]

One of the big problems of Africa is the habit of replacing food crops with cash crops. Converting wheat and other grains with coffee, cotton, or anything else that will sell on the open market. I think the original theory (beyond base greed) is the world market for a cash crops is higher per growable acre than food crops. Basic capitalism gone wrong. You plant a cash crop, sell it on the open market and end up making enough money on it to buy the grain you would have grown on the same amount of land and a small profit over that to help you run the country. Looks good on paper but the money usually gets wasted on civil war and general corruption so the cash comes in but usually too little gets spent replacing the food that was supposed to be bought to make the whole thing work.

Thin vs Fat clients round XXVII

[kindbud]

Fat client:

"The last thing you want to do for a shared use computer is have it be something without a disk ... and with a tiny little screen," Gates.

Thin client:

Earlier this year, Google founder Larry Page said his company is backing MIT's project. He showed a model of the machine that does use a crank as one source of power.

"The laptops ... will be able to do most everything except store huge amounts of data," according to the project's Web site.

Only this round, it's Larry Page instead of Larry Ellison. But the song and dance from both sides are the same. Microsoft wants to sell OS and software for Intel fat clients, and Oracle/Google want to sell hosted services for thin clients, so they can hold all the data. Fat vs Thin clients.

Interesting opportunity for Gates

[kludge99]

Maybe good Old 'Dollar Bill Gates' should dontate some of his billions and not just a few mere millions for decent computers to developing countries so they can get into the 21st century, instead of dissing someone else's good works.

Cellphones and self-interest

[KFury]

I could imagine the same sentiment being raised before cellphones made it to Africa in a big way. "The socioeconomics of the region are incompatible with widespread adoption of modern mobile technologies. They'll be too expensive to maintain and the village-bound populace doesn't have the need for such devices." Yeah, right.

Take Gates and Barrett's statements for what they are: Attempts to inspure FUD by the leaders of the two companies which have the most to lose should OLPC succeed. This must be an especially difficult issue for Gates, since his philanthropic and capitalistic motivations are in direct conflict.

The Road Ahead?

[deltatype0]

Anyone remember Bill's first book? I remember reading about his grand scheme and vision of a bunch of shiny wonderful technology coming out to improve schools, businesses, and personal lives. Or has Microsoft decided that spending billions on challenging patents, entering the game console race, and continuing to release slightly more improved versions of it's OS is more important that working on the technology surrounding it?

I remember when Windows 95 came out way back when, as a kid I was stoked to finally have a real improvement over Windows 3.1, let alone DOS. I'd sit there for hours just playing with the damn OS like it was cool. I'd make it do all kinds of seemingly stupid things. Over time, with each new version of Windows came little innovation, nothing new and shiny to look at or play with. The GUI remaining largely the same, the backends were always changed, but rather than innovate and create a new look or a bunch of new features, they rehashed the same crap over and over.

Of course Bill seems to apply this logic to hardware as he does to software, he obviously doesn't seem to get that hardware is changing, getting smaller, running faster, using less power. The MIT laptop is an absolutely wonderful piece of real innovation that cannot be told otherwise. Now how it will be applied time will tell, but I don't believe Bill has the right to play down on real innovation when he has barely made any real step in software or hardware innovation since the beginning of Windows.

It's a shame too, I was kinda hoping those digital wallets he talked about would come to, but then again I doubt I'd appreciate someone coming by and hacking my digital wallet. =)

Where is the 'shared use'?

[KFury]

Gates sez: "The last thing you want to do for a shared use computer is have it be something without a disk"

Bill does know that OLPC stands for One Lapop Per Child right? Where's the shared use there?

Re:100% lame

[caffeination]

You bigoted sack of shit (yeah, more swearing, deal with it). You really do think that 'developing countries' invariably means starvation and no democracy? Typical Slashdotter. How can you even think you can talk about "these people" like that? The rest of the world is more diverse than you think.

And anyway, internet only flourished in our countries once there was a large enough base of computer owners. It is possible for a computer to be useful without the internet. And these computers won't be going into any black market because they're so low tech, and going straight to the bottom of the social strata in most cases. The black market has no interest in a children's computer being handed out for free by the government. The only people to sell these to are the ones getting them for free (discounting your batshit insane idea that Linux-using American kids alone will fuel a worldwide black market).

And who exactly are the "we" you seem to be exalting? You think America or the developed world are regarded as "teachers"? Europe is seen as a good area to migrate to by many, but as the recent cartoon protests have shown, nobody's lining up for assimilation.

for gods sake don't just give them something like this and expect it to solve the problems that go much deeper then you care to think of.

I explicitly stated that contrary to what you bigoted Slashdotters are repeating to yourselves, this isn't a magic solution. Your shitty strawman argument won't work on me. Why don't you read an objective article on this thing and tell me if you see anything about it saving the world?. Are you talking about this quote? "Every single problem you can think of, poverty, peace, the environment, is solved with education or including education." At no point does Negroponte claim that his laptop solves every single problem. He is just implying that it can have a wide-reaching effect. If you take this to mean that he thinks it will solve every problem, you are assuming that every aspect of education revolves around computers.

I don't trust Gates because he's in it for money. He has competing products to sell. His worldview revolves around his dream of hardware being free and the OS being what people pay for. This laptop is a huge threat to the credibility of this. The UN does this stuff because it's part of their purpose, whereas Bill Gates wouldn't give nearly as much if it weren't also an effective tax dodge, and besides that, being rich and providing funds doesn't mean he knows a thing about practicalities. I'll trust the judgement of the UN and the several governments waiting to buy millions of these laptops before the judgement of Bill Gates and you, thank you very much.

Re:you're absolutely right!

[Johnny5000]

And yeah, Castro sure does put on a good PR show doesn't he? Organized crowds of "supporters"....pre-written "man-on-the-street" interviews....oh, and I especially like the wall he's having built to stop his people from looking at the horrible messages being propagated by the American embassy. What a wonderful dictator Castro is! EVERY country should have one just like him!

Good news! if you're an American, you do have one just like him!
Loyalty oaths & hand-selected audiences to ensure crowds of "supporters", propaganda disguised as news, spying on US citizens without warrants, various forms of censorship, torture, etc.

Enjoy!

As any fisherman will tell you...

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Give a man a fish and he'll go away. Teach him to fish and he'll steal your bait and tackle.

Misunderstanding entertainment

[Saint Fnordius]

You seem to be saying that entertainment is impossible without good graphics and sound. Well, the problem here is that you are mixing the container with the content. Just because I have a beer mug doesn't mean I can't drink orange juice from it.

There are plenty of entertainment options available for low-res devices, or have you forgotten how popular Infocom used to be? How fast a graphics card do you need to play Tetris? One of the popular online games out there today is the Kingdom of Loathing, a game with stick figures and no real animation (other than a couple of animated GIFs). To claim that the computers have to run games like we know them today shows a lack of imagination.