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Sony Decides Against Blu-Ray Downsampling
Paul Slocum writes "According to Ars Technica, Sony is now saying they will not use the Image Constraint Token and so movies will play on analog HDTV sets at full resolution. If HD-DVD does implement the analog downsampling, it's going to give Blu-ray a nice market advantage." From the article: "Sony's decision to not use the Image Constraint Token for the time being is meant to encourage the adoption of Blu-ray players. Launching a new product that would leave the thousands of analog HDTV owners out in the standard-definition cold could have proven to be a nightmare for Sony and the Blu-ray spec in general. Reports that 'Blu-ray discs don't look right on my HDTV' could result in consumers' switching allegiances to the competing HD DVD standard or postponing purchases of next-generation optical players altogether."
Just get rid of the DRM and we might have a decent product.
Sure.
:)
But if blu-ray takes off in the market, how long do you think downsampling will remain turned off?
If this wasn't a publicity stunt, it would be removed from the spec.
Gentoo Sucks
What they meant to say was "Sony Decides Against Blu-Ray Downsampling, for now..."
From the company that brought you every other proprietary technology on the planet and likes to subvert their users' computers with rootkits. People aren't THAT stupid. No, they probably are...
Sony has said that they do not intend to set the downsampling flag IN THE MOVIES THEY SELL. The capability still exists in the blu-ray standard.
Nothing to do w/Blu-ray vs HD-DVD
To be more precise, it doesn't affect the standards. However it does affect their markets, and really that's the point, moreso than the standards.
Sony says that they are doing this to promote the BluRay standard. Presumably, once HD-DVD is defeated, they'll be turning down-rezzing back on in their releases. First good reason to hope for a long, nasty, format war...
As for other content producers without a big vested interest in one format or the other, don't expect them to be so generous with their releases. If they set the flag, Sony's BluRay drives will obediently down-rez the analog output.
My largest concern with this concession is that Sony will one day mandate that all Discs released after a certain time contain a firmware flash that forces down sampling, not to mention any other DRM tricks they have up their sleeves. Something like what TIVO is doing.
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
doesn't matter what they do, I'm still not buying
Unfortunately, most people complain about those evil corporations, yet still bend over and let them get screwed. Dispite Sony's rootkit deal, I'm willing to bet that PS3 will be sold out on the first day when it launches.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
If HD DVDs come with all sorts of restrictions, people might as well just subscribe to flat-fee video-on-demand services. I know I will. DVDs will likely increasingly be used for special content (like pr0n), but even that will probably be played back through the computer, not a DVD player.
The way companies could make HD DVD a success at this point would be to get rid of all region coding and all DRM and lower prices a little; that way, people might be tempted to replace their current DVD libraries. But as it is, I'm not going to replace any of the DVDs I have with HD ones.
If they were taking ICT out of the players, I might agree.
They aren't.
They are leaving the capability there, and offering only the promise that the first Sony movies released will not use it. Another studio or Sony after a change of heart can and will use it.
Take it out of the damn player. There's no reason for it to exist unless they plan to use it.
I would not mind having a higher storage disk for storing computer files (but nowadays, one can just buy a USB hardrive for moving or backing up files), but having a locked restricted format that won't give me any benifits more than a standard DVD for movies or media (and is actually designed to degrade my eperience if I don't have the newest equipment)... man, I hope both these bastard fucking formats die a horrible death. I don't care which one is better! This isn't like VHS or Beta, because VHS and Beta weren't activly trying to restrict what I am able to do on machines I own with media that I own, or force me to purchase a new television to play movies.
This seems to be a interesting tactic by Sony. I can already see the class action lawsuit against the studios who implement the Token by users of older HDTVs. In fact there WILL be a lawsuit over this. Chances are also pretty good that this type of functionality will be ruled against in the US. Here is the scenario:
I buy a new HD-DVD so I can watch King Kong in HD.
I place the disc in my new Toshiba HD-DVD player.
I try to play the HD movie on my slightly older Toshiba HD TV.
I do not get to watch my HD movie that I paid for.
Now if I am the consumer, am not told in VERY plain language that my TV will not play the movie in HD, I am now being misled.
At this point there are all sorts of wonderful legal options to pursue. I can sue the maker of the Player for implementing the Token, which I will. I can also sue the studio for enabling the Token, which I will also do. A case for collusion could also be made (let's get everyone to buy new TVs again).
Since Sony would make the player, the TV, and the movie, one stop shopping for a major lawsuit.
Bring it on!
Now look at them. Some of the most pretty laptops on the market, burdened with all the extra cost of paying for proprietary formats and slots. They are pushing formats not to make the consumers life easier, but to insure that the executives can afford drugs and boys/girls.
What mad the electronics market thrive was that one could plug an RCA cable from any decent device to any other decent device and get reasonable results. No need to hire an MSCE person to hook up the TV to the video player. No worry about if the disc was acually made for this region. DVD won on convinence, and the fact that VCR was getting complex, but why is it that I cannot just put a DVD in and watch a movie? Why can't I fast foward over the stuff I dont' want to see.
Shoudn't design be for the sake of the person paying, or is it that consumers no longer are a source of profit on thier own? Is it that Dell makes money only becuase of MS and AOL/TW kickbacks? Is it that Sony does not expect to make any money of the players, but only on the content, which will be so chock full of advertisements that it will be just like watching a tv program? Why can't movie theatres make a profit on ticket sales and concesions? It is because the studios are so greedy that they each up all the sales, yet, because of the rational fear that the major releases are crap compared to the indepdent, won't fund digigtal distribution which might singnificantly increased profits, if only they would stop letting the likes of Michael Bay make films and tom cruise appear in them.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
I love comments like this. You are essentially saying "I hate how companies try to stop people from illegally distributing their copyrighted words, but it doesn't matter because I just download it anyway"
If they are smart it will last until most of the analog Sets have died off and been replaced by digital ones. That would depend on the expected lifetime of the analog sets. You don't have to wait till they are all dead, just until the Digital sets have hit a critical mass. Then the people with the old analog sets will be told that their old movies will play just fine, but anything new requires a fully digital set and compatible player. With fewer analog players still in the field, there will be fewer people to complain.
Changing technology has been a real boon for studios. Now they can sell content that has already made its profit all over again. And again. Forever. Copyright is a deal between the public and the content creator - we give you a temporary monopoly in exchange for the creation. That has been perverted by a huge lobbying effort over the years.
Changing technology has also been a boon for pirates. It is possible to make perfect copies for nearly no cost.
It seems a bit hypocritical for studios to eagerly profit from new technology while complaining about piracy. Especially when copyright has been tilted more and more in their favor until now it is practically Forever.
Man, you really need that seminar!
DVD's been mainstream for what, 6-7 years at most? And still there are many many people who haven't adjusted. So in another year they're introducing something else? DVD is a flash in the pan compared to VHS, which is still in wide use today.
The change in quality will be almost negligble. People will only feel cheated paying more and hardly being able to tell the difference.
It would make much more sense to switch to DivX on normal capacity DVDs, which is higher quality and much smaller, that way you can fit more on a single DVD, which I think is one of the more important things we need with a new format.
I don't see how anyone can be excited by Blu-Ray or HDDVD for movies, and you're kidding yourself if you are. More space isn't going to help movies that much at this stage. Yes, it will be in a higher resolution, yes, it will be crisper, but it will be at best half the difference between VHS and DVD. Many people may not even be able to tell the difference.
Games and data storage, yes, but it's too soon as the PS3 is showing. It would be better to wait a little longer to make sure that it can be distributed more cost effectively, and maybe even improve it.
DivX DVDs are a much better idea, in my opinion.
EpiAdv - if you like Pokey the Penguin, try this comic!
The HDCP spec discloses a way to revoke the ability of devices with a given manufacturer ID to play encrypted video. The DVI decoder chip used in the Spatz-Tech converter box might be the first HDCP product revoked.
Reports that 'Blu-ray discs don't look right on my HDTV' could result in consumers' switching allegiances to the competing HD DVD standard or postponing purchases of next-generation optical players altogether.
What would switching to HD-DVD accomplish? They're doing the same thing with analog signals.
I think consumers will be postponing purchases anyway because they'd rather wait for the format war to end.
When Walmart puts HD rear-screen projection and the X-Box 360 on the front page of its four-color inserts, I think the train has left the station.
The Disney studio product sells a lot of video hardware. Always has.
Disneyland on ABC and The Wonderful World of Color on NBC are two very significant landmarks in the history of broadcast television.
Disney on laserdisc is collectable, Disney dominated VHS sales and rentals from their first release. Disney is more important to the success of any video distribution system than pornography.
The PS3 market is more or less defined as the young adult male. Home Theater is family entertainment with a much broader reach and deeper pockets. More money to spend.
After the beta, minidisc.net, memorystick, memorystick pro, atrac, rootkit failures/debacles, Sony realises it cannot force crap onto consumers for very long.
About bloody time.
Region 1: North America, South America, Japan and East Asia (excluding China)
Region 2: Europe and Africa
Region 3: India, China, Russia, and all other countries.
This region listing is pretty annoying. Isn't Australia a proper country anymore? are we part of East Asia? or are we in the "all other countries"?
Why does no one care about Australia?
being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
What a brilliant scam. Put a big smile on their face, take their money then fuck them over. And some of you will eat it up like cherry cheesecake.
DRM is not for preventing piracy. Piracy is just being used as the whipping boy to try to justify DRM and the DMCA law. They know they can't defeat piracy because it takes a system that is locked absolutely 100% perfectly, and that just can't exist. Instead, the purpose of DRM is to provide the content industry with a means to restrict things in specific ways so you have to pay them more to get what you previously enjoyed for one price before. DRM doesn't do everything the content industry wants, just yet, but they will continue to use the existance of piracy to keep asking for more DRM (Digital Restriction Marketing, or Doubling Revenues Monthly, depending on which side you are on). Eventually you'll have to pay-per-view on the disks you actually buy. And then after that, they'll charge you for even doing things like rewinding to replay an interesting scene. You'll see more advertising that you can't skip, eventually even embedded in the middle of the movie. And later, that advertising will even require you to click "Buy now" or "Not interested" before the movie resumes. A small percentage of people might even find a way to defeat the DRM. But the DMCA storm troopers will be activated enough to maintain just enough terror level to keep that percentage small. But of DRM even fails to get any revenue at all from 10% of the population, it won't matter because it will have quadrupled the revenues from the other 90%.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Nah, you're insightful, man. The impact of all of this screwing of the customer has already long been here.
I'm an example. I have two TVs in my house, from 1984 and 1985. Yep, they're analog, yep, they're old and lack even some of the most basic features (one of them won't mute, for example). But you know what? They work. And they work in the unencumbered way that I want.
Meanwhile, all I hear about new TVs is how they will be laden down with this DRM shit over here and that broadcast flag over there. It's confusing, it takes functionality away from the hardware, so I don't want anything to do with it.
More example? I still use VCRs to copy programs off the air. I bought them pre-Macrovision, and they still work great. Yes, I know all about Tivo etcetera, but why even get caught up in the possibility of restriction nonsense when my current hardware is fully functional.
More examples? I switched to Linux when Microsoft switched to Product Activation, and I have never looked back. I'll switch to something else again if Linux ever becomes encumbered.
Do you see a pattern here? Many "consumers," like me, demand hardware which is completely unencumbered, period. (And OSs, which from a hardware perspective, are basically another piece of hardware). To us, any kind of DRM is immoral and works against our interests. Meanwhile, we don't care if the content, or, as Microsoft likes to call it (in a passive, sheeple type manner) if our "experience" is not full-featured. Analog instead of digital? So what, the quality is good enough. Close the analog hole on us? Then saynoara, I'll go read a book.
We want, and demand, pristine hardware from the hardware manufacturers. We don't care if the quality of the CONTENT is crap - we want good hardware. But the hardware manufacturers stopped listening to their customers at the time they first caved in and inserted the Macrovision infection into VCRs. It's been 20 years now of this stupid DRM-infection of hardware, and it is cutting severely into hardware sales.
(Yes, yes, I know DVD players sold well, etc bla bla. But they would have sold more quickly, and in greater quantities, if they weren't encumbered. As it is now, the only reason many of us ever bought into that hardware is because it started being sold unencumbered).
Opting out is a perfectly legitimate response, and it is one that has been going on for a long long time.
The executives who make decisions to impose this DRM crap are even more clueless than most Slashdotters have presumed them to be.
Hey hardware manufacturers, don't you care that the 1980s passed by, and the 1990s, and now the 2000s are almost gone, and you STILL haven't been able to persuade me to buy a new TV or two? Think of the lost sales in my household alone, if you had provided unencumbered TVs with new, buyer-friendly features every five years or so. Instead of my last two TV purchases having occurred more than twenty years ago (two TVs), I probably would have been buying new ones every few years (that's maybe six or eight TVs by now, that I have never bought).
And Hi-Def? Don't get me started. Why would I even CONSIDER it, since I know that somewhere, somehow in the process, those pieces of hardware are infected with restrictions?
Give us useful hardware, or go away. Lost profits, movie and record industries? Um, dontcha think those losses pale in comparison to lost hardware profits (caused by your DRM)?
"Cite a case where this happens, and you've got a point. Until then, nothing."
Well, not with movies, but certainly with software.
At school, we use very expensive video software. Altogether, the packages have cost the school tens of thousands of dollars.
The licensing schemes used to control these packages regularly fail. They depend on IPs, which get reassigned, or writing to bits of the hard-drive that aren't backed up, or whatever.
The result is that at school I'm often unable to use the software packages my tuition money legitimately paid to put on the lab machines, whereas at home my cracked versions of this software have never given me a lick of trouble.
A friend of mine has rendering software on his computer that requires a re-authentication when you change resolutions or something. I don't know what, because I've always used the cracked version. I just remember him sitting there, Windows PC in hand, futzing around trying to connect to a wireless hub just so he could show me a torso he'd modeled.