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Unusual Open Source

Dumitru Erhan writes "The Economist has a special report on open-source. It analyzes the way open-source projects succeed and finds that a rigid, business-like organizational structure is of vital importance to the quality of the final product. It cites Firefox, MySQL and (more recently) Wikipedia as examples of projects that do not simply allow anarchy to rein in, but which have 'real checks and balances, and real leadership taking place'. There is also a discussion of open-source methods being applied to non-software projects." From the article: "Constant self-policing is required to ensure its quality. This lesson was brought home to Wikipedia last December, after a former American newspaper editor lambasted it for an entry about himself that had been written by a prankster. His denunciations spoke for many, who question how something built by the wisdom of crowds can become anything other than mob rule."

31 of 262 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds like... by Needanewnick · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the summary:
    His denunciations spoke for many, who question how something built by the wisdom of crowds can become anything other than mob rule


    Isn't that how people get elected?

    Oh, I see what he means now.
    1. Re:Sounds like... by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It actually makes no sense given that there's no single entity responding to the mob. They act as individuals on individual pages.

      Mob rule might be the case if they're deciding on a single issue. But if you can't get a mob to even decide what issue they're deciding upon, then it's just a whole lot of people doing things.

    2. Re:Sounds like... by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Funny
      From the summary:
      His denunciations spoke for many, who question how something built by the wisdom of crowds can become anything other than mob rule
      Isn't that how people get elected?

      No.

      The way people in the american political system get elected, is the parties pick candidates to be picked apart by vultures, then one rigs the election system so they win in pivotal states with large numbers of "electors" who then are supposed to vote for so and so from their districts. In backwards countries, where vile dictators for life, parties labeled as terrorists, political strongmen and their machines all practice it works pretty much the same, but only american leaders are allowed to be critical of how the other countries process works.

      Mob rule would mean people actually pick their candidates themselves and throw all their votes behind them and the one who actually gets the most votes wins.

      Clearly we can't have that, so strong organizations, such as political parties are necessary to ensure we get what we deserve.

      i believe in education -- i'll teach you all a lesson

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    3. Re:Sounds like... by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Funny
      It actually makes no sense given that there's no single entity responding to the mob. They act as individuals on individual pages. Mob rule might be the case if they're deciding on a single issue. But if you can't get a mob to even decide what issue they're deciding upon, then it's just a whole lot of people doing things.

      Ah, but charismatic leaders can guide mobs and once they have enough of them in line, they can direct the mob against those who don't fall into step or question things. I believe Adolf Hitler

      [!Error 53 - Godwin Invoked - Thread terminated]

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    4. Re:Sounds like... by Ragica · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Couple of potential problems with this point of view.
      • Charismatic manipulators (of marginal intelligence can sometimes use various means of manipulating large numbers of morons in ways that most more thoughtful persons would not stoop to. (This is leaving even more complex issues of proportional representation, and other weirdness elements of elections aside.)
      • "using the history page" requires the target being defamed to know that they have a wikipedia entry. Anyone can go and add an entry about you and you may not know for some time. Someone may cunningly edit your entry, and you may not know for some time.
      • most viewers won't use the history page, even if they did realise its purpose, because it's an extra click. Kind of like microsoft knowing almost everyone is going to use IE even though it sucks ass, just because it's what's in front of them.
      This being said, I love Wikipedia, and use it several times a week. It's a great resource. But it does have some pretty big inherent problems due to its nature. No use in glossing over that fact.
  2. Leadership by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wikipedia is what it is today because of the large amount of people who care about it enough to fix vandalism. Not necessarily because of a centralized leadership.

    Open source is successful because of the large number of people who have an interst in its success. Centralizing leadership might be helpful in some way, but I don't see it as the most important thing.

    1. Re:Leadership by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 5, Funny

      Funny, I thought Wikipedia is what it is today because of the frighteningly large number of people willing to explain Super Mario Bros. continuity or the mechanics of Klingon spaceships.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    2. Re:Leadership by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Define vandalism.

      In Wikipedia the most active editor wins. Whether they're right or wrong.

      I've heard a couple of horror stories of the admins at wikipedia forcing agendas too (things like refusing very minor edits because they mention things they disagree with, and even blocking page names for things that they disagree with)*

      It's an interesting variation on the blog, but I wouldn't call it 'successful' in any way. Slashdot fanboys like it, that's all.

      * And the person who told me this is trustworthy, and definately an expert in their field having 20+ years experience. The eventually managed to get some edits in but only after appealing to other admins who removed the page blocks - 6 months later.

  3. Check out Groklaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    PJ over at Groklaw http://www.groklaw.net/ has this story.

    The reporter interviewed her. She has his questions and her answers. He obviouly ignored what she told him and printed a story full of factual innacuracies.

    This is bad, bad reporting. Do I still trust the Economist? Not much.

    1. Re:Check out Groklaw by tabdelgawad · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't understand Groklaw's beef. She (PJ) was asked two questions. Her first answer was one of the main points of the article: hierarchy is an integral part of successful open source development. Her second answer was a dodge: "You think Wikipedia is bad? The MSM is worse!". As for the factual inaccuracies, what exactly were they? The fact that the author didn't get the "groklaw-approved" exact wording right for telling us SCO is suing IBM, DaimlerChrysler and Autozone? Give me a break.

      Perhaps I'm biased against Groklaw. Sometimes I can't take the world-weary, sighing, 'know all the answers', 'the rest of the world is idiotic' tone of the postings there. I'm sure I'll be punished accordingly by groklaw fans with mod points, but what use is good Karma if you can't cash it in once in a while? :)

      --
      Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
  4. Summary gets anarchism wrong by HooliganIntellectual · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "It cites Firefox, MySQL and (more recently) Wikipedia as examples of projects that do not simply allow anarchy to rein in..."

    As an anarchist geek, let me point out that this is a wrong use of the word "anarchy." Anarchism is a political philosophy that is FOR organization. Many people have described Wikipedia as an example of "anarchism in action" and they aren't misusing the word instead of using "chaos." The free software/open source (FOSS) movement is another example of anarchism in action and includes many actual anarchists working on various projects.

    Find out more about anarchism at http://www.infoshop.org/ (where half of the visitors are using Firefox and other open source browsers)

    1. Re:Summary gets anarchism wrong by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      From Wikipedia:

      "Anarchism as a political philosophy, is the belief that rulers, governments, and hierarchal social relationships are unnecessary and should be abolished, although there are differing interpretations of what this means."

      Sounds like another one of those -isms that people have adopted and modified from its true original meaning to make themselves feel different, like Satanism. Anarchy means chaos and lack of organization. Oxford says "a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority."

      "ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: via medieval Latin from Greek anarkhia, from anarkhos, from an- 'without' + arkhos 'chief, ruler.'"

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    2. Re:Summary gets anarchism wrong by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's because language and therefore definitions reflect usage. Dictionaries are hardly "irrelevant" just because they contain common definitions you have some anal disagreement with society over.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
    3. Re:Summary gets anarchism wrong by Haeleth · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except that anarchism, as a philosophy, has a serious theoretical basis in the works of Kropotkin, Bakunin, Proudhon, etc, which date back centuries.

      Sorry, your Oxford dictionary is the definition that has been modified from its true original meaning.


      Sorry, but you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

      Kropotkin was born in 1842, Bakunin in 1814, and Proudhon in 1809, right? Well, the OED provides citations for "anarchy" in the sense of "lawlessness" dating back to 1539, and for "anarchy" in the sense of "moral or intellectual disorder" dating back to 1656.

      If we assume that words have such a thing as a "true original meaning", then I would be inclined to say that the way the word was used in 1539 (and is still most commonly used today) is more likely to be the "true original meaning" than the way the word was used by a handful of philosphers in the 1850s. Unless you're about to propose that they invented the time machine as well?

  5. Re:Follow up by dusik · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Many people still don't take the GNU project seriously. People often find it easier to keep their eyes shut than to have to change their beliefs in light of what they see.

    I've shown people incredible stuff on my (Linux) PC, but often when they find out it doesn't run on Windows they continue to pretend it doesn't exist.

  6. Yet Again, the BSDs get Snubbed by putko · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The BSDs have more rigid professionalism than the typical Linux project. I don't know why this is, but there is a focus on correctness over features.

    Yet again, the PR-excellence of the Linux crowd wins. Even though, for instance, Yahoo!, a company that hosts a huge number of sites (and stores), uses FreeBSD.

    That's OK with me -- it is a secret weapon.

    --
    http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_s tone_your_children/dt21_18a.html
    1. Re:Yet Again, the BSDs get Snubbed by marcosdumay · · Score: 3, Interesting

      GPL wins. A professor may not bother that people close his code, but companies do, so lots of developers never see the BSD kernels, nor work with it. And the word doesn't spread, so people don't consider it.

    2. Re:Yet Again, the BSDs get Snubbed by Overly+Critical+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, I love bsd as much as the next guy, but seriously - the bsds have more rigid professionalism? more emphasis on correctness over features? Given the amount of improvement in the linux kernel over the past 10 years, compared to that of the bsds, that seems a curious statement.

      I guess by improvement in the Linux kernel, you mean broken 2.6 development or bleeding edge hacks that break things. Yes, the BSDs have a much more professional approach. They actually try to retain stability instead of hacking in the latest gee-whiz device driver or VM scheme that breaks things.

      --
      "Sufferin' succotash."
  7. The Economist... only 20 years behind the times by Colin+Smith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Good advertisement for your mag mates.

    You see, one thing economists (and many, many others) get wrong time and time again, is self organisation... They just don't get it for some reason. The "bazaar" encourages, promotes lots of projects, lots of errors, lots of iterations, lots of dead projects and we get emergent behaviour out of that environment. These are projects which are strong, robust and evolutionary in that they will fill all of the niches in which they are needed. These projects are ... pulled ... in that there is a need for them... Traditional software is ... pushed ... in that there's a need for profit.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:The Economist... only 20 years behind the times by greg_barton · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You see, one thing economists (and many, many others) get wrong time and time again, is self organisation...

      And the amazing thing is that, if you say businesses should be regulated, they're very likely to yell, "NO! The market must be FREE! The market has WISDOM!" Then they go back to saying open source is socialism...

      Cognitive dissonance ain't just for psychologists and Republicans anymore.

    2. Re:The Economist... only 20 years behind the times by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You see, one thing economists (and many, many others) get wrong time and time again, is self organisation... They just don't get it for some reason.

      Actually I think economists have too much faith in self organisation, particularly by markets. For example by insisting that markets can solve environmental problems without intervention.

  8. Truism by marcosdumay · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, if you define sucess as having a big reachable community, the sucessfull projects will have someone able to tell you the name of every developer. If you define sucess as being used by corporations, the sucessfull projects look like corporation projects.

    Now, we could get the first page with some more truisms, or we could forget about generalising this idea of "sucess" to an area where there is simply no metric to be used.

  9. What never made sense to me by K-Man · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If the guy was so offended, why didn't he just edit the Wikipedia entry to fix the mistakes?

    --
    ---- "If we have to go on with these damned quantum jumps, then I'm sorry that I ever got involved" - Erwin Schrodinger
  10. Many eyes help by Handyman · · Score: 3, Insightful
    His denunciations spoke for many, who question how something built by the wisdom of crowds can become anything other than mob rule.


    It's obvious that an entry created and commented on by many disinterested people is less biased than an entry created and commented on by few. Traditional encylopedias fall in the latter category, Wikipedia falls in the former. But people are not always disinterested, and that's where the problems lie. So the real problem is: are all the participants disinterested? With traditional encylopedias, the chances are that most writers are semi-disinterested observers, as they are ordered to write about subjects, they don't select them themselves. With Wikipedia, people self-select themselves, which means they cannot be disinterested, by definition. And that's the reason that some kind of community control is required for projects like this.
  11. May be a Good Thing by Quirk · · Score: 3, Insightful
    a rigid, business-like organizational structure is of vital importance to the quality of the final product.

    'real checks and balances, and real leadership taking place'

    "Constant self-policing is required to ensure its quality.

    Any task envisioning an end product could be said to require the characteristics mentioned above. What may be of more importance is that the venerable 'Economist'(although I believe its always been seen as left leaning) is making an effort to wrap its mind around Open Source and in doing so allowing its readers to follow suit.

    Over the last year plus I've noticed more articles that tend to view Open Source projects as akin to 'hardnosed' business methods. I think they represent the establishment coming to a positive consensus about Open Source methods and projects.

    I noticed a turn in the way the general business community reported and interacted with Open Source from about the time IBM ran the ads picturing Linux as a small, blonde haired, blue eyed wonderkid.

    The old boy network isn't about to let Open Source join the club but they're certainly ready to let it in the service entrance.

    --
    "Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
    Cohen
  12. How is this news? by Zphbeeblbrox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Any Project whether it's open source or commercial needs this to succeed. Open source is more than a development model. It's a software licensing model. As a result it's also a software as service model. The main difference between commercial and open source is the openness of the code and tendency to the service side rather than shrinkwrapped.

    --
    If you see spelling or grammatical errors don't blame me. I tried to preview but IE here at work borked the CSS
  13. Ask Slashdot: by Errandboy+of+Doom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Are there good open source projects that buck this trend, that disprove the thesis of this article?

    This is the crowd that would know.

    Or in the alternative, is "strong central leadership" so inherent to all human endeavors that the thesis is a meaningless tautology?

  14. Anarchy by LeapingQuince · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is unfortunate that the term anarchy has a dual meaning - the most common being "disorder". A more historical meaning is that of "without authority", which seems to be what open source is all about - nobody telling anybody else what to do.

    Open source projects are the model of anarchist principles - people getting together, contributing when they want to, and promoting the common good. Even Wikipedia knows that.

  15. A few inaccuracies... by pilkul · · Score: 3, Informative
    The lines of programming code upon which SCO based its claims had changed owners through acquisitions over time; at some point they were added into Linux.

    This is giving way too much credit to SCO's claims. I don't think it was ever proved that a single line owned by SCO was found in Linux. As I recall they were basing their claims on free lines of BSD which were added to both SCO and Linux.

    And after the furore over the biographical entry last year, Wikipedia changed its rules so that only registered users can edit existing entries

    This is simply wrong. Anonymous users can and always have been able to edit existing articles.

    Well, this article is still pretty decent but I expect better from The Economist.

  16. Prove it. by Comboman · · Score: 3, Funny
    People end up demanding facts and figures for something that can only be explained in terms of human experience.

    How do we know it can only be explained in terms of human experience? Please state some facts to back up your assumption.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
  17. Challenging the Managerialist View by McLuhanesque · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As a PhD researcher into the evolution of organizational forms, I find the facile application of open source principles rather distressing - especially when they're used either to reinforce the notion that hierarchies (read: control and power) really are important, or to promote that people should work for free and donate their efforts to the "greater good" (read: more profits for the shareholders and more shite for the workers).

    I have a paper that challenges these notions being published in the upcoming (Summer 2006) edition of Organization Development Journal called, "THE PENGUINIST DISCOURSE: A critical application of open source software project management
    to organization development"

    While I can't make the paper available online just yet, the abstract reads as follows:
    The apparent altruism observed among contributors to Free/Libre/Open Source Software (FLOSS) initiatives is often envied by managers seeking to inspire and motivate employees. While conventional managerialist authors often encourage the emulation of FLOSS management style, this paper seeks a social-psychological understanding of FLOSS contributors' motivation, and the control dynamics of the projects' organization. Radical changes to the some of the basic assumptions of conventional practices may be required to translate FLOSS approaches to corporate management.
    For those with in-house OD folks, you may want to alert them to the next edition of the journal. (I also do strategy and OD facilitation and interventions on a contract basis; you can track me down via my profile.)