iPod Update to Address Volume-Level Concerns

aardwolf64 writes "In an apparent response to the hearing loss lawsuit against Apple, the company has released an update to the iPod nano and 5th generation iPod that allows the user to set the maximum volume level. Parents can even set a lock code that prevents the volume from going above a certain amount." Apple also has instructions at their site on how to implement the changes

Comments

what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[CrudPuppy]

so when they make it so it's not loud enough to damage hearing, can I sue them for not making it loud enough for hard-of-hearing people to use? (grin)

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[drix]

The conflict I am experiencing right now between moderating you down for be a completely humorless fucking moron and just calling you one, is immense.

Guess I chose B.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[tambo]

You're still free to use your iPod at deafening levels if you like...

Not if someone has enabled this feature: "Parents can even set a lock code that prevents the volume from going above a certain amount."

Just what the world needs: another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting. Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult. Instead, let's be passive-aggressive pricks and preempt their judgment with parental-surrogate crippleware.

Of course, it will take the recipients of such devices 0.003 milliseconds to punch "amplified headphones" into RadioShack.com and come up with six hits. They will then tune in at twice the volume as a predictable act of rebellion. So the kids are still deaf, but the parents can shrug and say, "My conscience is clean, and that's what really matters." And of course, they can then sue Radio Shack, and lobby Congress for laws that criminalize the sale of amplified headphones to minors.

And of course #2, this "feature" will undoubtedly manifest primarily as an obstacle and annoyance to (1) people who buy an iPod from eBay but discover that it's been capped at 0.5 decibels, (2) kids whose buddies (or playground bullies) enable this "feature" as a prank, and (3) people who inadvertently trigger this feature and then can't disable it.

I hate the direction our country has taken - and the fact that our technologists have fallen victim to the same pathogenic thinking.

- David Stein

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[iminplaya]

...another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting. Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult. Instead, let's be passive-aggressive pricks and preempt their judgment with parental-surrogate crippleware.

I like Ballmer's method better.

Re:what about those of us who are hard-of-hearing?

[Alaska Jack]

Overreact much?

Seriously, I'm about as libertarian as they come, but your reaction here is way off the scale.

"Just what the world needs: another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting."

Or a tool that parents can use to help them "actual[ly] parent".

"Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult."

This makes total sense. After all, everyone knows that if you want a kid to do something, all you have to do is talk to them.

"Instead, let's be passive-aggressive pricks and preempt their judgment with parental-surrogate crippleware."

Pre-empt whose judgement? You can't mean the parents', because this tool just gives parents an additional choice. You must mean the kids'. But that doesn't make any sense either -- sometimes, pre-empting a kid's immature, inexperienced judgement with your own, hopefully more mature and informed judgement is exactly part of what you call "actual parenting."

Relax, big fella.

    - Alaska Jack

It's not a bad thing

[celardore]

I think this move mainly covers themselves legally, but you can't say it's a bad feature - so long as you can choose to limit it, only if you want, or are a parent. Sometimes it's good to have your earphones loud! The risks are so much less than smoking, but a lot of us still do that.

What???

[techmuse]

Huh? Can you repeat that story?

Re:What???

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

This is Slashdot, they probably already have and will again within the next 24 hours.

Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Salo2112]

Back in my day, the Sony Walkman was going to deafen us all. Frankly, I would imagine people today are just as capable of operating the damned volume control as we were then.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[Castar]

WHAT?

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[MustardMan]

By lowering the maximum volume, you essentially have more accurate control of the volume range you're actually using. Using half the wheel to go from 0-50% isn't as good as using the entire wheel to do the same range. There's also a parental lockout control, so parents who were afraid to let children use the ipod now have the option to set a max volume and lock it.

The whole slashdot "I won't use this so it's automatically stupid" mentality is incredibly childish. Why this was modded insightful is a mystery to me. Of course, most moderation around here is a mystery to me.

Re:Wasted effort, stupid feature

[lgw]

I regularly listened to a walkman for over 8 hours a day. There wasn't a time limiter built in, you know. But then, in my day men were real men and carried more than 1 set of batteries.

Ipod volume limit remover

[dalmiroy2k]

How long until "Ipod volume limit remover" is released so kids can crack their Ipods?

Re:Ipod volume limit remover

[themadplasterer]

They already have, it's provided by apple.

Apple instructs that if you forget you combination for parental volume control simply restore the ipod. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303 414

Good thing for parents

[Darthmalt]

If my 12 year old brother had an iPod I would definatley use this on his. I wish his cd player had one. He doesn't understand so constantly turns it WAAAYYY up. Loud enough that I can hear everything he is listening too perfectly. Don't get me wrong I'm 21 so I like loud music however I almost never turn my ipod up over halfway when I'm listening to the headphones.

Re:Good thing for parents

[Homology]

Tell him to turn it down already. Its been said before, but using technology to solve the symptoms (very high volume) instead of fixing the problem (not enforcing the idea that loud = dangerous) is a pretty bad, if not useless, idea.

You probably think that safety lock mechanism on guns is pretty bad idea too, eh? Of course one may use technology to make use of an appliance safer.

Re:Good thing for parents

[MustardMan]

If I have to tell you kids one more time, I'm turning the car around and we're going home.....

YOU WILL NOT USE LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE WHILE LIVING UNDER MY ROOF

(or is that posting under slashdot's moderators?)

Re:Good thing for parents

[Vainglorious Coward]

I put this in the same class of ideas as seatbelt laws

To be fair, seatbelt laws aren't just for the benefit of the seatbelt wearer - in a collision, your two hundred pounds of meat moving at 60mph is just an unsecured load like any other, and presents a danger to others, inside and outside of your vehicle. This is also why rear-seat belts are important - they save the lives of front seat passengers.

Obligatory ST quote

[esampson]

Parents can even set a lock code that prevents the volume from going above a certain amount.

This iPod can go up to 11.

Re:Obligatory ST quote

[Ghouki]

why don't you just make 11 10?

I must be getting old

[Timesprout]

cos I think this is a good idea. My nano is proper fucking loud, uncomfortably so, esp with the apple ear buds (I prefer bang & olfsen for the quality) and that level of noise directed straight at your eardrum cant be good for you.

Plus theres the fact that if you play you ipod at full blast near me while I am trying to sleep on the train in the morning you are liable to be smacked in the face and your ipod will be fucked out the window.

Yes but...

[FuzzyBunnyFeet_83]

Sounds nifty... but will it let me make it louder?

Re:Yes but...

[ColaMan]

The problem with earphones is that you miss a lot of physical cues that the music is too loud.
For example :

If you're sitting in front of your stereo and your innards are thumping in time to the music, you get the idea that it's probably a little loud. You don't get this physical effect wearing earphones.

If the person next to you at a party is moving their lips but you can't hear them, you get the idea that it's a little loud. With earphones, you think "Oh, I've just got earphones in."

All these kinds of missed cues help you to tell when the volume's too loud. If you played music back in a room at the level you normally can achieve with earphones, you'd have people cringing.

Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[dpbsmith]

Don't the people who worry about iPod volume levels realize that headphones differ enormously in sensitivity?

I have a pair of wonderful Sennheiser HD570 headphones which, unfortunately, are much less sensitive than those that come with the iPod. Using these headphones, perhaps 2/3 of my music sounds about right with the iPod volume set to its maximum. If I could just boost the output up about 6 db or so, it would work with all of them.

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[Your Pal Dave]

It would be nice (and probably profitable) if somebody came out with an inexpensive SPL meter which could be used to test individual earphones in order to determine a safe maximum setting. Something simple with red, yellow and green LEDs for instance.

Hell, Apple stores could have a proper SPL meter which customers could use to setup their ipods.

Re:Darn, I was hoping I could _increase_ it...

[Reverberant]

It would be nice (and probably profitable) if somebody came out with an inexpensive SPL meter which could be used to test individual earphones in order to determine a safe maximum setting.

It's actually pretty difficult to accurately test headphone sound levels because the sound level will depend on the volume of air in the ear canal (for ear buds) or under the cup (for over-ear headphones) as well as the leakage around the head phone. This is dependant on the size of the ear and the pressure of the head band on the head (for over-ear headphones). There's a reason why artificial ears and dummy heads cost thousands of dollars.

Mead Killion (founder of Etymotic Research) gave a talk in Boston recently, and he announced a product similar to what you are proposing, and it should go to market soon. Basically, it's a box that goes between the audio player and the headphones, it measures the voltage of the headphone output, and determines safe and unsafe levels. Rather than measuring SPL levels from the headphones directly, the unit will be factory programed with the output levels from various DAP/headphone combinations (determined using lab measurements) so it can map the voltage to the appropriate level.

[Dr. Killion also gave everyone at the talk a free pair of ER-6's, but that was just icing on the cake :) ]

Mr Cynic

[ackthpt]

A lock code? It'll be hax0r3d. huhuh *snort* huhuh *snort* huhuh ...

There. That should summarize about half of the responses.

my, cynical today, aren't we?

Actually, let me add to your prediciton: It'll be hax0r3d, then /. will carry posts, then Apple with threaten the author of the hack page, then /. will carry the story of that, plus the author's valiant struggle for freedom to reprogram crap you bought and the evils of DMCA reverse engineering provisions.

Patent

[mtenhagen]

If think they should make a system where the user can decide for it self what the volume should be by using a "-" and "+" button. Hereby giving the user full control of the volume level.

Should this be patented that would be true inovation!

don't these things have a variable volume control?

[hackstraw]

Eh?

But I guess that it is relatively easy to go past your comfort zone once you get acclimated to a certain volume and many different songs have different RMS values to them, so mixes can be difficult, even with a max threshold.

Also, I hope that the lawsuit goes the way of the fat people suing McDonalds. Food and headphones are nothing new, and overusing them is personal responsibility.

Next week, I might drink 8 or so gallons of water, die, and then come back and sue the waterworks of my town. That will teach them not to sell water anymore.

Hearing damage is a function of volume + time

[Dzimas]

The problem is that a short period of extremely high volume does the same damage as prolonged listening at moderate volumes. And humans are extremely bad at perceiving volume -- I often crank my iPod higher than I should when on the train with lots of ambient noise. So the iPod volume limiter is a cute idea, but in practice it should lower the volume if I leave my earphones stuffed into my head for an entire afternoon.

The best thing is to educate yourself on the dangers of loud music (heck, ANY loud ambient noise can be dangerous as well). I'm from an older generation and did some permanent damage to my hearing with a string of Sony Walkman players and car stereos.

Re:Hearing damage is a function of volume + time

[Kelson]

I often crank my iPod higher than I should when on the train with lots of ambient noise....in practice it should lower the volume if I leave my earphones stuffed into my head for an entire afternoon.

Humans perceive relative volume. I've often gotten in the car and turned on the radio only to discover that I had left it set unreasonably loud. Of course, when I was listening to it before, it was on the freeway with lots of background noise, and now I've spent the last 30 seconds walking through a parking lot.

Back in our college days, my then-girlfriend (now wife) remarked that DJs were aware of this and would slowly increase the volume over the course of a dance or party as people got acclimated to the louder sound. They had to keep the music not just loud, but sounding loud. Unfortunately, they all too often started out at the top of the range they should have. By the end of the evening, it would be maximum strength plus 10%.

Pointless in this implementation

[iabervon]

This just lets you set the maximum volume setting. But if there's some maximum volume setting you don't want to exceed, just don't set the volume higher. The real issue, in my opinion, is that you're likely to have tracks that have different average volumes, and if you play a quiet track, you'll turn it up, and then the next loud track damages your hearing. Using this feature to limit it, you play a quiet track, and you can't hear it. Or you adjust the maximum while playing a medium-volume track, and the loud tracks damage your hearing anyway. What they need is something to calculate RMS volume levels and automatically adjust the volume to even out tracks and limit the loudness of the output independant of the input.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[Slackrat]

I believe the iPod and iTunes already supports the "Sound Check" feature which does just what you describe.

Re:Pointless in this implementation

[Breadly]

They have this - it's called "SoundCheck"

To switch on Sound Check on your iPod:
In the main iPod menu, click on Settings - Sound Check - On

If you wish to switch off Sound Check on your iPod, follow these steps:

To switch off Sound Check on your iPod:

In the main iPod menu, click on Settings - Sound Check - Off

God forbid people learn to use the volume control

[Mr. Freeman]

What makes it so hard for someone to simply turn down the volume themselves?
Or is it that we now have to assume that all teenagers don't know how to work the volume control by themselves.

Other MP3 players are still capable of playing music at any volume with no way to restrict it, what about them?

If people are going to complain about the potential for loud volume then they might as well complain about pencils being too sharp, fans spinning too fast, the sky being too blue, etc.

Fantastic

[countach]

This is a fantastic idea if for no other reason than it is easy to accidently change the volume when it is in your pocket. The click wheel is too sensitive and you can end up blasting your head off accidently. This is even more so with in-ear earphones which only need the volume half as high for the same amount of decibels in your ear drum.

So let's not hear any talk about this being a silly idea. It's not.

Re:Fantastic

[kindbud]

The iPods have a little lock switch to prevent any controls from being accidentally activated. On my Nano, it's on the top edge.

iPod needs a lower 'low'

[smenor]

My principal complaint with the iPod's volume control is that it isn't fine-grained enough.

When there's a lot of ambient noise, the granularity isn't a big deal.

It really bugs me if I'm in a quiet environment, though. There's a sharp jump from 0 volume to a level that's already uncomfortably loud for me.

Re:iPod needs a lower 'low'

[useruser]

I just downloaded the update, and was happy to find that upon setting a low maximum volume (about 10%), the control granularity has actually increased: the far right of the bar is now 10%, allowing me to carefully adjust it between 0 and 10%.

Re:1st post?

[TheComputerMutt.ca]

I don't care what the reason is, a feature like this is a good thing. I've been wanting something like this for a while. I'm caution when using my Nano, but sometimes when I'm distracted I might turn it up to dangerous levels. I've already patched my iPod and set this, and I'm very happy with how it works. Younger children may not realize the risk, so the parental lock feature is very useful as well.

And no, not first post.

More power to 'em!

[Machina Fortuno]

Look... we all know that Apple hasn't done all the best things with their iPod, but I am for this 100%

For those of you who keep bashing people for "being idiots", you can shut it... not everyone can be as enlightened as you. Apple has provided their customers with more control... I am sorry if you are against that, but I have no reason to go against this. I am afraid that you guys are a little to quick to complain...

hyponatremia

[MyNymWasTaken]

It is possible to die from drinking too much water.

You Can Drink Too Much Water

Water intoxication is a problem not only among athletes. For instance, it has become one of the most common causes of serious heat illness in the Grand Canyon. Some people hiking the canyon drink large amounts of water and do not eat enough food to provide for electrolyte (salt, potassium) replacement and energy. Fears of dehydration has led to a mistaken belief that the safe thing to do is to drink as much and as often as possible. But even with drinking water, there can be too much of a good thing.

not all of us are as tech savvy as you

[centinall]

I myself am suffering from hearing lose after not realizing that i could adjust the volume in my car for about 9 months now. Sure Hondas are nice cars, but you think they would make this little fact a little more known. They should also tell you that you don't have to push the right pedal down all the way when you want to make the car move. I've gotten in several accidents and have many tickets already. I'm currently looking for some people to start a class action lawsuit against this company putting out products that could and have negatively affected me. If anyone is interesting in joining in, message me.

Re:1st post?

[Caiwyn]

It's not just sad, it's dangerous from a legal standpoint. It's practically an admission of guilt. Expect a settlement, because there's not a chance in hell they plan to fight this in court now.

Various Ways This Will Be Worked Around

[The MAZZTer]

- Kids will edit an MP3, half the volume, upload it, and then show mom/dad that the maximum volume is too low. This might only work so long, unless the mom/dad isn't too technologically inclined and can be lead to beleave the iPod volume degrades over time.
- Kids will download a hack to reset the password.
- Kids will flash the firmware or reset the bios or otherwise erase the user preferences, thus unlocking the volume control. This one is probably real easy.
- Kids will edit ALL their MP3s and turn the volume as far up as possible, even possibly if the waveform ends up flattening out.

This might satiate certain groups for now, but if I came up with this in five minutes I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't REALLY think this will solve the problem. They might be able to use this as political leverage to say "not our problem anymore"!

(Not that I think it was theirs to begin with.)

No, this is just for the politicians

[Bueller_007]

They already had more than enough protection against hearing damage:

#1. The click wheel lets you change the volume from full to mute with one quick turn of the thumb.
#2. The "Hold" switch prevents the volume from changing when it's in your pocket.
#3. The "Sound Check" option, which normalizes the volume of all the songs.
#4. If you're among the white-earphone-wearing masses, the headphones that come with the iPod are so crappily designed that they fall right out of your ears if you take off the little black felt "earphone covers".

Actually, I thought France's problem with the iPod's sound system was that it came bundled with in-ear headphones. The iPod headphones are actually quite good if you leave the little black felt things on them, but the second you take them off (which most people seem to do), they fall half way out of your ear canal and the music sounds super soft and tinny. Then you have to crank the volume and jam them back in.

At any rate, this is just to make some politicians happy. You can easily accomplish the same affect as the new Volume Lock using just #1, #2 and #3. The only really new feature is that the volume can be controlled with a combination, which is touted on the website as a "parental control" option. Parental control? Oh, please.

The only other reason I can see for this is that update is that it gives Apple a simple way (i.e. through internet firmware updates) to control the max dB levels for every iPod in every country, just in case there are any hearing-protection laws passed.

It doesn't absolve parent of anything

[sdo1]

ust what the world needs: another techno-crutch that will absolve parents of the annoyance of actual parenting. Let's not talk to kids about the effects of loud noises on their hearing - that's too difficult.

Ah, spoken like a true non-parent (I'll be shocked if you're the parent of anyone old enough to be effected by this). This doesn't absolve parents of anything. You can explain and reason with a teenager all you'd like and the second they're out of your sight, it's time to ignore everything the parents said. You can't hold their hand every minute of every day, but you're still responsible for them and that means not just talking to them, but being proactive in their lives and putting down certain boundaries.

Do I let my kid have free reign on the TV? No, I'm a parent and part of that is, as you said, parenting. Discussing with them what they're watching and why and putting down limits on what I think is appropriate for their age, not what THEY think is appropriate. Since I can't take the remote from them every minute of every day and be in the room with them every time it's time to watch TV, I lock out the channels I feel are inappropriate.

I see this as no different. My 6 year old wants and iPod. Younger and younger kids are getting them. And if he got one, I could explain to him and reason with him the dangers of loud music, but he doesn't have a sense of what's too loud, so I think this would be a great solution. If I explain to him not to touch the open bottle of sleeping pills on the counter, is that good parenting, or is leaving them there just plain irresponsible? Putting them in a locked cabinet doesn't absolve me of actual parenting. It's just being proactive and looking out for my child's best interests. Parenting is a continual series of teaching, learning, and guidance. Sometimes they do the right thing, other times you need to step in.

It's not a substitute for parenting. It's just another tool.

-S

Re:1st post?

[Jonny_eh]

But this problem has existed in nearly every decent portable music device going back to the Walkman. If anything, Apple should be given credit for being proactive.

Alas, should, and will are probably different here.

Sosumi.wav

[billcopc]

I think I've found the solution to my income problems: I'll move to the states and sue every company that's ever made any product I've ever used for any whimsical reason that comes across my amphetamine-enhanced cranium.

First I'll sue Ginsu for that time I cut the tip of my thumb while stabbing into a can of beans, and lost sensation in part of my finger. It's Ginsu's fault that I was being a dumb alpha male, of course!

Then I'll sue Microsoft for that time I smacked my laptop onto my forehead in frustration. It's their fault my hacked custom theme DLL crashed the UI, of course!

And then I'll sue Sony for selling me a TV that lets me watch reality shows. It's their fault I don't like reality shows, of course!

But I certainly won't sue Apple for making me hard of hearing. That's nobody's fault, I'm proud to be a music-loving stereophile!

Re:How about an update that checks the user's IQ

[wildsurf]

This can be done very effectively by simply analyzing the user's playlist. I won't post the exact algorithm, but leave it to those who want to get flamed by morons ;)

So do they still go up to 10????

[sokoban]

Steve Jobs: The numbers all go to nine. Look, right across the board, nine, nine, nine and...
apple fanboi: Oh, I see. And most mp3 players go up to ten?
Steve Jobs: Exactly.
apple fanboi: Does that mean it's quieter? Is it any quieter?
Steve Jobs: Well, it's one quieter, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
apple fanboi: I don't know.
Steve Jobs: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
apple fanboi: Put it up to nine.
Steve Jobs: Nine. Exactly. One quieter.
apple fanboi: Why don't you just make ten quieter and make ten be the top number and make that a little quieter?
Steve Jobs: [pause] These go to nine.

Did anyone actually install this update?

[Keyslapper]

Cause I did.

Guess what? No Volume Limit.

Ok, I skimmed over the documentation first time round, and it was late, but now I'm looking at the Apple site directions, verifying my iPod software version (20G iPod w/Color Display, v1.2.1) and there's no bloody Volume Limit.

Now, I know I don't need it - unlike many people these days, I at least try to take responsibility for my own actions. I don't leave it loud enough to be uncomfortable - generally low enough that I can hear people talking around me. Still, I'm a nerd, and more importantly, a parent and uncle. My daughter, niece, and nephew all have shuffles, so I should at least know how to work it for them, and of course, I was just plain curious how the new bell worked.

So, did anyone else go looking for it? Did you find it?

Useful for my situation

[WolfZombie]

I use my iPod mostly for sitting in traffic, and right now I have a tape adapter to connect it with my stereo. With the volume too loud, it gives a lot of distortion through the stereo, with it about 85% it sounds perfect. The problem is 85% is too loud for headphones, so when I use it outside of the car I have to change the volume. With the volume indicator not having a numeric value, it is nearly impossible to find that perfect tape adapter volume. Now I can set that as my limit and my problem is solved.

I know this wasn't their intention with this update, but it should work great in solving my problem for my situation.

Now if they would just have an update where you could turn the backlight on by pressing a button without it changing the menu selection/volume/song...