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Replacing Your Tired Old DVR
An anonymous reader wrote to mention a C|Net article about a possible replacement for the DVR. Called RS-DVR, it allows customers to record shows on centrally located business-owned servers. From the article: "One uncertainty is reaction to Cablevision's service by programming networks, which have bristled at some of the cable industry's previous attempts to record shows on their systems before negotiating new broadcasting rights. Cablevision argues nothing will be recorded on its network unless the viewer orders it from the remote control--an important difference from other failed experiments. Earlier controversies had centered on Time Warner Cable's aborted Maestro service, which had proposed to automatically store programs on its network so viewers could order up just about any show that had been previously broadcasted." There are a number of possible media ownership issues here, I think. Personally, I'm happy having the shows right here on a hard drive in my home.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Canada we've only had access to DVRs for about two-three years now...
I was looking for "Google" in that post and didn't see it anywhere!
- Andrew
I meta-moderate because I care.
I already pay a monthly fee to the cable company for the programming. No more monthly fees. I'm perfectly happy to record it myself and not get jerked around by another 'service provider.'
"This is better! NO! Trust us...it's better!"
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
Can you order without ads, or can you FF through them?
Common sense is not so common
My DVR is KnopMyth, a MythTV Knoppix distro. Why would I want to replace it? No DRM, works great, and I can burn shows I like onto DVD. I recommend this to everyone interested in a DVR.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
And if the cable company has your shows, they can be subpeonaed (by the Department of Education, for a stupidity law case). And then everyone will know you stored 10 episodes of Ricki Lake. Scary.
Right...and have Comcast enforce content DRM by deciding how, when and how many times I get to watch something I 'recorded'?
No thanks!
I saw no mention of how much they're going to charge for this service. Knowing how these guys work, I'm guessing it's not going to be a flat monthly fee, but rather a per usage fee. Or, of course, they could combine the two and charge a monthly fee for the ability to use the service, and then throw a small per use/recording charge on top of that. After all, they gotta find some way to maximize the profitability of this thing.
This guy's the limit!
>Personally, I'm happy having the shows right here on a hard drive in my home.
Exactly. As I've said before, I've never cottoned to having my email stored on someone else's server, either.
Just give me the PIPE, man! I don't need, want, or trust any of your "services" to manage the data for me. I can do that myself, thank you very much.
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Isn't this the kind of thing that got mp3.com into hot water a couple years ago?
A post a day keeps productivity at bay.
I like being able to edit out commercials, run noise reduction, upconversion, de-interlacing, and other post processing on the shows and then burn to DVD's if I feal like it. Too bad no set-top-box DVR will ever allow that kind of function, but my home built HTPC does.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
First, I don't want comcast to be storing my shows. I cannot imagine the cable companies will ever NOT impose more strict usage guidelines upon me... because they can.
Second, I've never modded my DVR, I've never even made copies from my DVR or TV to a computer. 95% of the time my usage of the DVR is using the "WTF did they just say button" and the article,
implies that I might lose that functionality.
NO to more restrictive usage and NO to it not working as well and HELL NO to paying more for it.
It's hacked, so I suck the shows off that I like and recode (actually, just re-parse - no recoding required, but sans extra fluff sections) to mpeg2. That gets stored on my Firewire hard drive tower. Some get burned for on-the-road use. Some go onto my MiVX box. Others are just stored for future reference.
(BTW, before you suggest Myth - Myth won't work for me - I have DirecTV and HD. DirecTV has already massivly compressed the shows, I've got 2 tuners in one box, and there is no full rate HD input card in my price range)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Giving the customer less than they want, one technology at a time.
I'm still waiting for a replacement for my old tired Betamax and 8-track, though my 78 RPM record player is still going strong. I've found a really nifty way to make my black & white television look like it has color. It's a transparent sheet that's clear in the center section, the top part is blue to simulate sky and the bottom part is green to simulate grass.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
So the content providers can choose how long I have to watch something I want to record? And how is this better than having a DVR and on-demand tv?
Unless they somehow offer this 'feature' as a free service, count me out.
There are so many reasons this is Not a Good Thing, but I'm a bit surprised the industry didn't pick up on it and push it through sooner. In their eyes, it'd be harder for someone to make a torrent or othe P2P of a recording not stored on their own servers. Thing is, though, it would put them in a technical position not too far from the illegal file sharers, and that might blow holes in their standard anti-piracy arguments.
"You're breaking the law with your saving and redistributing that copyrighted content! Now excuse us while we save and redistribute this copyrighted content... and charge for it!"
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
This is the worst idea in ages. Not only that, but as others have stated, recording shows at the cable company facilities is a little different than the legal test that was applied to an end-consumer recording video on their own VCR years ago.
Its scarey, but I forsee a time where a TV is a thin-client- basically an mpeg decoder with a remote proxy tied back to the cable company. And I do not want this. I'm very happy with my dual tuner Motorola HD PVR. (ok, I could be happier if Insight Communication hadn't updated it recently to disable my 30 second skip...which I had to program into the remote to enable to begin with)
Just imagine what the cable company will do with your video if its on their servers? You know the anoyying ads that they insist in putting into the DVR interface to waste guide space??? Imagine them being inserted over your video. Imagine remote lag- no longer can you fast forward at high speed to skip over a commercial and have any hope of hitting the play button in time for your show....its hard enough as it is now!
1. Can you skip ads?
2. Will it still be there when the network loses the "right" to broadcast it?
3. Will it still be there in case government (or someone else) doesn't like the idea of its existance?
4. Will it be free of extra charge?
5. Will it allow "unlimited" recordings?
6. Will I be able to make local copies?
If one of those queries return "no", my answer is "no" as well and I stay with my means of recording.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
My DVR is BitTorrent. My only problem is that I do have a hard time finding shows that aren't either very popular or have a cult audience.
I am just waiting for SciFIHD/DiscoveryHD/INHD/DisneyHD/ESPNHD to offer up their shows directly or through Google/Itunes. If I can download my shows/series in HD and watch them when I desire I will no longer pay a Cable company for hundreds of channels I do not watch. If there is a show on HBOHD instead of paying a monthly fee to watch their content I'd pay just to get one series. Remember when you used to buy a cd (or tape) and just wanted one song. I think they just need to get the pricing right. This is where things are headed. Cable companies will be merely net providers. The freedom to watch what I want, when I want, in the format I want - eliminates the box, the monthly service, the bloat of content and streamlines my usage (probably will result in me watching more shows). Oh and I say HD because the quality is much better and why not?! You would think they would take advantage of the delivery service the net offers. Take it up a notch - I'd even pay extra to have the option!
Indeed. With RSS parsing built into modern clients, I don't even need to go find them. Just random "This download has been completed" messages. Yeah, thats nice
"Something's wrong with you...and I hope we never do meet again." - Deftones When Girls Telephone Boys
Here in the uk for radio we have a lience where the radio station can play XXX songs from YYY record lables, and then the artist are paid royalities (at least im guessing thats how it works.).
Why can't something like this apply to tv channels? They pay their money and then they can broastcast the shows they have rights to whenever they like. Also this means their customers can view what ever shows when they like.
I mean, we could just record it on vhs and swap tapes...
- http://www.milkme.co.uk
My first big idea of 2006? Peer to Peer networks! I'll call them p2p for short, I'm sure they will be a big success. We could charge a fee for encumbered media that only works the way we want, and expect our customers to help distribute to boot.... errr, what? p2p exists and people use it freely already to obtain unencumbered media. damn! I thought I was onto a brand new idea here. ...errr, what? people have been recording TV just fine without me for more than 20yrs? and they've been recording them digitially using a PVR for the better half of a decade?
ok; my next big idea is to record TV shows for people, and store them on my server. Then people can tell me what they want recorded and watch it later. I'm sure this one will fly!
dammit! why does the market always beat me to the punch?? there must be some way I can extort more money out of people for useless services.
If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
I have a DVR myself, and use it all the time and love it, but it wasn't cheap. If a server-side "recorder" is a cheaper option, even if it's less flexible, why is that so horrible? Providing this doesn't mean the cable companies are going to come into your house and steal your Myth box, you still have that option.
Ok, kvetch about possible cost -- though it might be cheaper than roll your own -- and limitations, but it's sounding too much like conspiracy theory here. For Joe Average who missed last night's "American Idol", this could be very handy.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
My only problem is that I do have a hard time finding shows that aren't either very popular or have a cult audience.
And how is that different from cable?
--Phillip
Can you say BIRTH TAX
While it might be nice to have unlimited space to save shows on, I'm wondering how bad the lag between input and reaction would be in a system like this. I've played around with Comcast's OnDemand and I can tell you that it is very hard to pause or fastforward or rewind a show. There is a few second lag time between when I press a button and there is any response by the system. Also, a system like this seems ripe for enforcement of artifical viewing policies. Personally, I don't see what this service could really add for me as a user.
SIGFAULT
How can you replace a tired old DVR with another tired old DVR?
I just received my new 40gb PVR-700 and now I can go anywhere and have DVR functions.
I can copy the files I DVR onto my hard drive via the USB cable and do all my editing there.
I can bring my PVR to my friend's house and show off the cool ass viral video I downloaded.
I can plug it into my video card's s-video output and use it to record those hard to convert MKV and other wrapper video files.
You wanna get un-tired, you should check this device out.
sorry to be so fucking commercial about it, but seriously, it rocks.
Let's see between a mythTV box or a ReplayTV or a hacked or paying the additional fees for your Tivo you can extract the recording to other machines for use on portable video devices. What they are talking about will downgrade me to no longer have that ability.
and that is only the start, I can not see ANY advantages of their proposed setup. Right now I can record and play back perfectly without my internet connection, theirs CANT.
unless it is going to be $1.25 a month it cant even begin to offset the loss in features (30 second skip is missing from the Comcast PVR and that is why I will not touch it.)
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Talk about the new society of 'throwaway'.. Geesh.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The only benefit I could see if this allowed me to record more than the 2 shows at the same time and it gave me more space to store stuff. Having 7 people in the house makes it tough to record everything that people may want to see.
Actually with Myth this is not hard at all.
I have seen a mythbackend server on a Dual P-III 866 that had 5 PVR-250 tuner cards in it all recording from the CATV signal.
It was a sight to behold, but certianly had more complexity than most people can touch without losing sanity.
Also you can easily do this with ReplayTV. I have 3 replay 5040 units and pay 1/2 price for monthly service on all the other units after the 1st.
best part is the replayTV setup is 100% brain dead easy.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
How about cheaper and more reliable? You can skip the disk in the set-top box, making it much cheaper. At the head end, they can user fewer total disks ('cause you only need to record a show once) and RAID them.
If you RTFA, you'd see they proposed a feature where you could start watching a live show in the middle, then hit the record button and have a copy from the very start (including the stuff you didn't watch). Try that with a MythTV/Tivo/ReplayTV.
I don't trust cable companies any more than any of the rest of y'all, but geez, how 'bout we let them announce specifics (like digital restictions, cost, record frequency, recording retention, etc.) before we jump all over them.
RS? Poorly coined phrase. I think the original submitter meant Network Video Recorder (NVR). IPTV as an industry is growing, then everything will be on demand. Why would you bother recording shows (and all of the scheduling hassle that comes with it) when you can just watch whatever you want whenever you want? (Yeah, commercials, but free on demand is worth something!) That convenience, done right, will really replace a DVR, and this service is an early-beta-idea-version and probably is a bit ahead of its time.
http://labs.zap2it.com has the guide information. I think they might have a document. They make you login every other month, so that you can maintain your account. This is how they getcha, they ask you a bunch of marketing questions. They're prolly watching what you watch, too. Then again, who cares? Queue up a whole bunch of Happy Days.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
Who's still using VCR/VHS here? and why?
Why not just use video on demand? How is this any different than that?
Why have broadcasters?
This seems like just another way for Cablevision to try to force its worthless iO digital service down subscribers' throats. I would be shocked if they don't somehow tie this in to iO. It cost them so much money to implement and nobody wants it. They market it VERY aggressively. I've actually had Cablevision telephone reps outright lie to me and tell me that iO was required even for basic cable. They charge you $9.95 a month, PLUS equipment rental fees for the digital box AND the remote control. And all you get is 20 extra channels that are among the least wanted cable channels available anywhere, of course, in sterling digital quality, while your remaining channels (that you actually watch) are still in crackly, fuzzy analog. Of course, everyone I know that had iO ditched it after the first month, except for my folks who need it in order to get HD. Maybe if they didn't overcharge us for analog ($9.95 for broadcast channels plus $40 for basic cable) we might be more receptive. If you want TV out here, you either need cable or satellite. We have 3 broadcast channels in range, one of which is exclusively ATSC now, two others are Spanish-only, and the other one is home shopping. And if you rent, then Cablevision is really your only option unless you can convince your landlord to install a satellite dish on the property. Cablevision has been milking its monopoly for every last penny, and we're sick of it!
Old Wine in new bottles. This is the same on-demand junk cable companies have been trying to shove down our throats forever.
My SageTV box plugs along flawlessly, recordin all the shows I want, streaming DRM free video to my entire network. I can easily burn the results to DVD or transcode to my PSP or GameBoy PlayYan. Why would I want to pay extra for less capability?
The fun part is that my tired old homemade DVR keeps gaining functionality over time from upgrades and synergy with my new toys
The continuous trend in consumer electronics seems to be offering less functionality for more money. As homemade systems continuously gain features, the commercial systems continuously become less useful and more annoying.
I'm sure that's what the electronics industry would love for consumers to believe.. that after a period of time your consumer electronics get tired and old. Let the poor things retire, get a brand new HDTV, DVD player, blah blah blah.
This is how (IMHO), new DRM-laden technology will sneak its way into our living rooms one day.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
A company trying (remember the networks are not too fond of this) to offer a service many customers would like and use is not a bad thing. Given the nice high-speed video feed they have into millions of homes, why shouldn't they look to provide a more user flexible service that would attract and keep customers.
This is the essence of competitive innovation
Nobody is saying that you can't keep your DVR and the extra features it affords you, but please don't begrudge those that would love to see DVR like functionality across all cableboxes in the house, the potential for virtually unlimited storage, no set-up, no wires, etc. If there are catches like no ff through commercials, then this is part of the personal tradeoff vs. DVR that the consumer gets to make.
Step 1. Soften up Tivo's market share by offering your own DVR.
Step 2. Kill off Tivo entirely by moving the hard drive out of the consumers home.
Step 3. Charge $1.99 to watch a timeshifted show (*cough* itunes *cough*).
Now I realize that this is Slashdot, and the majority of us here have the capability of building a homebrew MythTV or other home DVR setup, but keep in mind that your average Joe Lawyer or Suzie McCashier don't have that option. That's why the cable system I work for has about 900 DVR's out in the field in customer's homes. I think Cablevision is on the right track here, because with a simple update to the cable box software, every digital customer can have DVR access. Instant market penetration.
I can't speak for Comcast or Cox, but the MSO I work for imposes no DRM on recorded material. I can't mention the company with whom I am employed, but it's a digit less than "CableTwo".
A centrally located file server brings huge advantages to the DVR distribution model. When a digital box fails to work properly, whether it be due to lightning strike, age, or a customer filling it with water, our only option is to replace it. In the traditional home-located hard drive DVR model, any recorded shows the customer wanted to save are gone. However, if such a thing happens for a Cablevision subscriber, all you need is to slap in the new box and away you go. Also, this can reduce the number of truck rolls for a company. Anyone who currently has digital service and a box will only need to call the office, and they can enable the DVR functionality.
DVR is not on-demand, as it is the responsibility of the customer to choose which shows get recorded and when. Another Slashdotter claimed that cable co's have been trying to force VOD down customers' throats for years. In actuality, it is the public and Congress demanding that cable co's provide VOD and a-la-carte programming...which is a topic for another day.
The disadvantages of such an operation are those typically associated with putting all your eggs in one basket: If the file server goes down without appropriate backup, many customers lose their DVR files.
In response to an earlier post regarding subpoenaed TV shows: The cable co DVR is usually leased,not owned; and in the case of a subpoena, the courts STILL get the files.
khasim (12/9/06): In a blind taste test, more people preferred Coke over the Pepsi that I had previously pissed in.
I don't own a DVR, you insensitive clod!
I'm guessing you haven't tried out Myth .19. It's got a neat feature that if you're watching a show and then later decide to record it, it'll record from the beginning. But as for Myth, I enjoy it. It's completly custom made for my needs. I can record multiple shows, watch myth recorded programs anywhere on my network, and use XBOXs as low def "portable" front ends.
to get hotmail, you open each one, and copy and paste
to get your shows, you watch & record.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Anonymous reader writes to force us to read commercials for shit we don't want need or like.
/. institute some fucking standards about what you'll post.
This so-called anonymous reader perhaps works for cablevision?
wake up
At least tell us it's a commercially sponsored post.
They're using their grammar skills there.
I read a WSJ article about this last week. Cablevision et al are tired of fixing DVRs that break down every 1.28 seconds; they want the ability to provide customers with less failure-prone parts and handle storage in-house to minimize cost.
If you don't want it, build your own mythTV box or buy a TiVO or something! AFAIK there is nothing to stop you from doing so. I'm sure that cable cos are fine with any product you use provided they don't have to offer support for it or pay to keep it in working order.
beware the jabberwock, my son! the jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
The "magic" isn't in the software, but in the capture card. With a PVR-250, you just need a system fast enough to copy 4Mbps over the PCI bus (per-card). Even a a very old single-proc machine can handle that.
Incidentally, PVR-150s are quite a bit cheaper, these days.
Truth is, it really doesn't require much complexity at all. MythTV is just a mess. I found it much easier, far more flexible, etc., to write a simple scheduler script.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I think its a great way of cutting costs as well as allowing for easy upgrading of the service (if i want more then 20GB of space). What would also be cool, is if the cable companies allowed users to share there programs with others. For example if i record 24, and my buddy forgot to record it he can still watch 24 from his house if I allow access to my recording(s).
Knowing several people who live in Long Island, I remember Cablevision already trying this around two years ago. It was suppose to be "On-Demand" everything (VOD), with shows being recorded server side. This caused a massive delay in people getting DVR service in Long Island as there were several problems with the VOD solution (Time Warner already had DVR in NYC for over a year before Long Island finally got it). Cablevision finally relented and gave people Scientific Atlanta DVR boxes. Hopefully Cablevision is able to get its act together this time around.
Article describing Cablevision VOD service.