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Climate Researchers Feeling Heat From White House
Jeff K writes "Facts and science collide with tribal loyalties, the Washington Post reports: 'Scientists doing climate research for the federal government say the Bush administration has made it hard for them to speak forthrightly to the public about global warming. The result, the researchers say, is a danger that Americans are not getting the full story on how the climate is changing.'"
Is this really a shocker? Bush has had a policy of denying global warming is a result of humans, the fact he is giving the NOAA extra money for research rather than prevention is quite interesting, global warming is something that is happening.
I remember years ago when the offical stance was there is no such thing as global warming, this has evolved to, there is no proof of global warming, to okay it exists but it isn't our fault, somehow I get the feeling the intention now is to attempt to prove it isn't caused by the biggest donators to the Bush administration.
When the whitehouse and the pentagon started to open up and declassify documents all those years ago, it was a good thing it felt like finally they are opening up, now things are going back to feeling more like the cold war, a policy of secrecy, spying (although internally now rather than on a foreign element), lies, and gagging the people with important information.
So as you feel your skin cancer forming and watch the ice caps come washing over us, just remember it isn't because of mankind, President Bush says so.
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"Although Bush and his top advisers have said that Earth is warming and human activity has contributed to this, they have questioned some predictions and caution that mandatory limits on carbon dioxide could damage the nation's economy."
Of course, the cost of doing nothing is much lower in the long run.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
It doesn't appear that US citizens even care about global warming. Maybe work on this first, or is the Federal goverment responsible for public morals?
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The result, the researchers say, is a danger that Americans are not getting the full story on how the climate is changing.'"
You only have to read a slashdot story on Climate Change (and the amount of time posters call it "global warming" to know that the vast majority of people all over the world are not getting the full story on climate change.
I'm more worried about the current administration's failure to legislate forced change to energy (particularly oil & gas) consumption, then I am about the American public's lack of awareness of the facts.
My pics.
I guess this is the price you pay for taking money from the government for your research. Perhaps the government shouldn't be doling out the money. Maybe the government shouldn't be given that power. The power of the US Government comes mostly not from the armed forces but the money it takes in and gives out.
"There has been a change in how we're expected to interact with the press," said Pieter Tans, who measures greenhouse gases linked to global warming and has worked at NOAA's Earth System Research Laboratory in Boulder for two decades. He added that although he often "ignores the rules" the administration has instituted, when it comes to his colleagues, "some people feel intimidated -- I see that."
I think I like this Pieter Tans guy. I think there needs to be more scientists^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H people like him, who don't allow their convictions to be challenged by the administration.
Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
Not to draw TOO many parallels, but remember when Galileo et al gave scientific findings that the governing powers didn't like? One of the causes, I feel from experiences with research, for the acceleration of scientific discovery is the change from a few centuries ago when science was done at the behest of the wealthy/powerful for status. As science was removed from the political, innovation and creativity flourished. This seems a bad sign of a growing politicization of scientific research, which is what kept things so slow for so long.
It seems like what they are complaining about is that the Bush administration doesn't want people who work for them to talk to the media and espescially don't want them to field questions on public policy.
In effect, a non-issue. Most of you already know you shouldn't go to the media and make comments about the job your boss is doing, or make comments about what they should do instead. I really don't think it's out of the ordinary for Bush to put a collar on his subordinates.
Bush is evil, yes, yes, but stop blaming him for Global Warming.
You want the truth? This is *my* fault. In fact, just yesterday I noticed the bathroom light was on, and I figured "oh well, not worth getting up" and left it on.
Anyone under the age of 30, intelligent enough to use a computer, who intentionally reproduced despite the COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD STATE OF AFFAIRS, should be very, very ashamed of themselves. Anyone attempting to "play dumb" or "blame politics", doubly so.
Math is math. Regular expression is regular expression. The tools are there. The future is now.
I thought that this was a dupe, but then I realized it's the same tactics, different agency. Just our lovely administration "staying the course" on being "good stewards" of the environment.
In all fairness, nobody talks about how government orgs like the EPA allocate funds for climate reasearch with heavy biases in favor of research that tends to promote the necissity of a larger EPA. But then when it goes the other way around, people scream bloody murder.
Get the government money out of the freakin cliamte research studies to begin with, and they might actually become credible.
This story has a "both sides of the coin" situation to me, and one HUGE reason why I absolutely despise government financing and control of research. To say the Bush Administration is the problem is to ignore the reality of government -- it is seemingly all powerful, very corrupt, very easily manipulated if you have the cash, and never thinking about its citizens as individuals, just as voting groups.
Clinton was no better, no matter what the Progressives might say. This is the reason guys like this run for office -- to change the climate of thinking in the US and in the World. When it comes to public opinion, you may win on occasion when the big guys pick your side, you may lose on occasion. But when it comes to reality, you'll always lose -- the politicians will never do things the way you want them to, and they usually have hidden reasons for doing what they do.
If this doesn't help prove the case for withdrawing federal funding of research (and arts and dozens of other areas) to better allow researchers to publicize evidence for their beliefs, I can't think of what will.
There is no federal mandate for financing science or art or anythink of the sort, and the reason for it was so that the science and the art wouldn't be corrupted by opinion or political control.
Really, politics aside, all I hear about lately is Global Warming. Ever since Gore had his big push when The Day After Tomorrow came out, it seems like its all i ever hear anymore. Time and Newsweek just gave Global Warming their covers recently... I just don't see how theres information out there that isn't getting to me. At least information i could understand, I don't need up to the minute global-current charts.
You mean like new Orleans?
Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
It's easy to fault Bush and to make him sound like a two year old. Oftentimes, it just requires you to copy and paste something he said.
But I would like to point out that there is a good article regarding this matter and it happens to take a look at it without political bias (if you believe that's possible).
Essentially what I'm asking you is, "Would a Democratic president be doing anything differently?" That's hard to decide--both sides are all talk and no action on this subject.
My work here is dung.
"Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive,
R ICA.html [ornl.gov]
for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age." - TIME, Monday, Jun. 24, 1974
But NOW (I understand) they're sure?
Let's just point out:
"From around 150,000 to 130,000 years ago, North America experienced colder and generally more arid than present conditions. About 130,000 years ago, a warm phase slightly moister than the present began, and conditions at least as warm as the present lasted until about 115,000 years ago. Subsequent cooling and drying of the climate led to a cold, arid maximum about 70,000 years ago, followed by a slight moderation of climate with a second aridity maximum around 22,000-13,000 14C years ago. Conditions then quickly became warmer and moister, though with an interruption by cold and aridity in many areas around 11,000 14C years ago."
(Jonathan Adams, Environmental Sciences Division, Oak Ridge National Laboratory)
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercNORTHAME
Does the temperature seem to be moving up lately? Yep.
Beyond that, it seems to be a huge guessing game: are humans responsible for the current warming? (personally, I think we probably contribute significantly to it)
Is warming a catastrophe? Even IF you buy into the Cassandras, for every "coral reef is gonna die because the water's too warm!" it's hard to believe that there's not a corresponding expansion (northward) of coral-reef-able zones. For every acre of expanded desert, there's another acre of former-tundra that now has a growing season.
And don't even get me STARTED on "cities will flood" crap. Duh? For ANY city in any location, over a long enough span of time, the odds of it surviving unscathed are ultimately zero. Nobody built the big cities (generally starting as a cluster of wooden huts around a river or nice bay) with an eye toward their long term survivability - NOBODY. To presume at this point that we need to exert every effort to somehow FREEZE Earth's dynamic climate to accomodate habitation choices made 000's of years ago?
That's just stupid.
-Styopa
Some marketing professionals have stated that the reason people in the U.S. don't care about global warming is because of how it's presented: global is good, warming is good, how can 'global warming' be so bad? They should call it what it is: 'atmosphere cancer', 'oxygen rot' or 'Earth decay'.
Yet another drama filled screed about some scientist being "gagged". Has it occurred to anyone that if we are reading about it and about his opinions on Global Warming that he is not being gagged?
What's happening is that they are being told that they do not speak for the administration whenever they open their mouth about something. No one is holding a gun to their head to make them say something or prevent them from saying something. They just can't say it as if they are the official spokesman for the Administration. That is nothing more than common sense management.
Of course, this won't stop the coming wankfest of Daily KOS, Dem Underground pseudo scientists from filling Slashdot with all kind of vitriol towards anyone to the right of Howard Dean.
And anyone who would dissagree with the wacky left had better post anonymously, otherwise they will have their karma pummeled to the point that they will be effectily "gagged" much more than any government scientist supposedly is.
No. I fully expect all presidential administrations to keep a tight leash on what gets reported as "official" government science.
Bush has had a policy of denying global warming is a result of humans
It can reasonably be disputed based on our current evidence. We have established correlation, but not causation.
the fact he is giving the NOAA extra money for research rather than prevention is quite interesting
Yes, it means he's doing exactly what he said he was going to do - fund more research and gather more data. You can disagree that this is necessary (I don't happen to - more data is always good).
global warming is something that is happening.
I don't recall the White House denying this.
I remember years ago when the offical stance was there is no such thing as global warming
Under which President? Bush has never as President (to my recollection) insisted that global warming does not exist at all.
this has evolved to, there is no proof of global warming
Well, there wasn't any proof for quite some time. Just speculation and incomplete data.
to okay it exists but it isn't our fault
Again, this isn't the official White House line. The official line is, "we don't know for sure and I want to be sure before I sign economically crippling policies to screw up everybody's lifestyle." That seems sensible to me.
somehow I get the feeling the intention now is to attempt to prove it isn't caused by the biggest donators to the Bush administration.
Such as? Bush isn't running for election again, even if the Democrats are still running against him. Why would he still pander to lobbyists?
When the whitehouse and the pentagon started to open up and declassify documents all those years ago, it was a good thing it felt like finally they are opening up
Well, a war can tighten up the flow of information.
now things are going back to feeling more like the cold war, a policy of secrecy, spying (although internally now rather than on a foreign element)
Spying internally? So wiretapping people who are suspected of having conversations with foreign Al Qaeda operatives is NOT spying on a foreign element?
lies
Such as?
and gagging the people with important information.
This does bug me, but since this administration can't seem to keep a lid on its leaks, it doesn't seem to be a real problem.
So as you feel your skin cancer forming and watch the ice caps come washing over us, just remember it isn't because of mankind, President Bush says so.
He could end up being right. He probably won't. We'll find out eventually!
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
The academia usually doesn't get censored very often in the West. During Chairman Mao's rule, Chinese professors were criticised for being "anti-revolutionaries." Smart people who know shit and know what's going on are liable to expose the administration's lie.
> the Kyoto treaty that just happens to be rigged to do disproportionate harm to America
Umm.. like America is doing disproportionate harm to everyone else (and itself) right now? Seems fair to me.
This is something that is affecting us all and beyond. Can the rest of the world not sanction the US on these issues?
They are attempting to undermine the very basis of rational thought just because it doesn't align with what they think the Bible says. This is NOT new -- Luther himself called reason "Satan's whore." There is a long and rich tradition of anti-intellectualism in this movement, and the denial of global warming (and then the backup position, that humans aren't involved) goes hand-in-hand with Intelligent Design. Also involved here is the fact that most evengelicals (who make up the vast bulk of the ID movement) believe that Jesus is coming back during their lifetime--i.e. end-times are nigh. If you literally believe that you and yours will be raptured to Jesus in the next few decades, then don't you think that might just influence your views on the necessity of environmental activism? So flinging about the label of religious nutjob, while entertaining, is not by any means gratuitious.
ID and "skepticism" over global warming are both integral parts of the same movement. This linkage is not figurative or polemical--we're talking about two fronts being fought by the same army. So bringing up ID in this context is nothing at all like calling someone a Nazi just because you don't like them.
Yes, moderators land hard on ID proponents, just as they would if someone said "I don't buy it that germs cause disease," or, "I don't believe in continental drift--it's just a theory." The astounding arrogance and willful ignorance of ID proponents deserves to be modded down. Would you be for "teaching the controversy" to placate a group that wanted to displace the germ theory in favor of the idea that demonic possession causes illness? No, eventually you'd get snippy and start humiliating them in public, because it's just a stupid position to take.
I tried to illustrate the absurdity of the people who jump all over the Bush administration for global warming. Granted the person I responded to did it in an admittedly level headed way. But, I would not be lying if I said I have seen people go into seething rages when global warming and Bush are mentioned in the same sentence
It's like seeing a tobacco executive in the 80's deny smoking causes cancer when, in the previous 15 years, you've had a number of family members who smoked heavily then die of lung cancer.
He's lying. He knows he's lying through his teeth and so do you. And yet many people believe him because they're in denial of their smoking habit.
And, as you see his smug face on TV denying a smoking-cancer connection, you vividly remember your relatives as they were in pain and wasting away in a hospital bed. Wouldn't that piss you off too?
That's why some people get angry about Bush and Cheney when the latter deny man's influence on global warming or, until recently, global warming itself. They are lying to protect their self-interest and those of their oil-industry executive buddies who make big campaign donations. They know they are lying and they don't care how bad the results are.
It's beyond hypocritical. It's evil.
false
from sci.environment today:
these can't even predict the weather beyond four days with any reasonable accuracy
Irrelevant. Waves are not predictable but tides are.
we find engineering solutions to the problem, hm?
yes please. Nukes, I think.
we can sure as hell figure out how to build carbon dioxide sinks and somehow get this out of the atmosphere. If engineering is the problem, engineering can sure as hell find a solution.
Not much surer than hell, though. The scales are daunting, and by the nature of the problem we can't solve it by applying more energy. People are working on it, but the solutions so far all turn out to be either non-functional or more expensive than just finding ways to cope with less energy. I'm sure if you have any specific ideas you can find some funding to develop it, though. Don't let me discourage you in this regard. We NEED such a solution. It's just not sure there is one.
mt