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X-37 Flies but Runs Off Runway

mknewman writes "The X-37 drop test was completed today with a lift by White Knight. It had a successful flight but it ran off the end of the runway."

27 of 128 comments (clear)

  1. well... by Proof_of_death · · Score: 5, Funny

    It took off, it didn't explode ... two out of three aint bad, right?

  2. X-37 is a DARPA-sponsored project by gihan_ripper · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I hadn't heard about this new project till I read the article. It's neat that Spaceship One's "White Knight" is being used to haul a DARPA-sponsored project into the Ether! This truly heralds a new age of independent aeronautics.

    --
    Phoenix, Boston, Little Rock, see a pattern?
    1. Re:X-37 is a DARPA-sponsored project by jnhtx · · Score: 2, Informative
      It's too bad this craft never flew in space. It is one of several similar projects that NASA gave up on over the last ten years. Very sad.

      On a positive note, there are some excellent pictures of the White Knight and X-37 at Alan's Mojave Weblog.

    2. Re:X-37 is a DARPA-sponsored project by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Interesting
      This truly heralds a new age of independent aeronautics.

      Independent how? Scaled Composites has already done enough Pentagon projects to fully qualify as a member of the Military Industrial Complex.

      Other than market share, are they really different from Boeing in any significant way? Both companies make civilian aircraft and rockets, and both do defense contracting.

    3. Re:X-37 is a DARPA-sponsored project by khallow · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Other than market share, are they really different from Boeing in any significant way? Both companies make civilian aircraft and rockets, and both do defense contracting.

      Yes. Boeing makes high reliability commercial aircraft while Scaled Composites specializes in experimental prototypes and airplane kits for hobbyists. Boeing also picks up a lot more pork (ie, public funding with little risk or strings attached).

    4. Re:X-37 is a DARPA-sponsored project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Being a part of the US Military Industrial Complex is an honor.

      Wow - that's incredibly simplistic.

      There's a reason that Dwight Eisenhower was worried about the growth of the military industry - when it reaches (reached?) critical mass, it becomes self-perpetuating.

      I once worked for a DoD contractor. It wasn't pretty.

  3. But apparently... by TechnoGuyRob · · Score: 4, Funny

    The author was insuccessful in spelling "successful."

    1. Re:But apparently... by tktk · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's unpossible.

    2. Re:But apparently... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 5, Funny

      "The author was insuccessful in spelling "successful."

      Thanks for Choo-Choo-Choosing to post that, Ralph.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  4. Engineering problem by angrychimp · · Score: 5, Funny

    Obviously the runway wasn't long enough.

    1. Re:Engineering problem by Monkeys!!! · · Score: 5, Funny

      Obviously the runway wasn't long enough.

      Incorrect. The real Engineering problem was that the plane was too long.

    2. Re:Engineering problem by slashname3 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Obviously the runway wasn't long enough.

      Damn metric/standard conversion! Was the lenght of the runway measured in meters or feet? Get the guy that worked on the Mars orbiter, I know he knows how to convert this stuff correctly.

    3. Re:Engineering problem by oshy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe it was the wrong aproach angle

      http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/swr0047l.jpg

      'Not only is this the shortest runway I've ever seen it's also the widest!'

  5. Re:Successful? by zpeterz63 · · Score: 5, Funny

    *sigh* You poor, poor, uneducated man. Don't you know that all you have to do to fly is to throw yourself at the ground and miss?

  6. Re:Why exactly is this Slashdot-worthy? by Cunk · · Score: 2, Informative

    You're neither facetious nor a troll. You just can't R->C->P.

    The article is about something that in fact hasn't been done before. This is the first time they were able to let it go from the White Knight.

    Or is there some joke in your post that I'm not getting?

    --

    I am the inventor of the hilarious refrigerator alarm.
  7. Re:Why exactly is this Slashdot-worthy? by MustardMan · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't mean to be facetious, or a troll

    So what did you mean to be? A dumbass who can't read?

  8. Overheard comment by landing gear engineer by dunng808 · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Brakes? We don't need no stinkin' brakes!"

    --

    Gary Dunn
    Open Slate Project

    1. Re:Overheard comment by landing gear engineer by arivanov · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes. You are damn right actually.

      The shuttle has no breaks, neither does SpaceShip 1. Extra weight which has no or little use. The former uses parachutes to break and the latter uses a slide instead of a front wheel which doubles up as a friction break. Dunno about Buran, but I would not be surprised if it has no breaks either.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    2. Re:Overheard comment by landing gear engineer by Indigo · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Shuttle definitely uses brakes as well as a parachute. See this NASA page.

  9. sounds like it passed the test then by Stanneh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i mean come on worse things have been marketed and sold to us :D

    --
    I Predict A Riot
  10. Re:USA will use this project for war by sarcasticfrench · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "USA will likely use this project for warfare and opression." You're probably right about that. From the article:

    DARPA picked it up in 2004 for its potential military applications. As far back as 2001, NBC News producer Robert Windrem reported that the craft could be adapted to serve as a "space bomber."

    Considering they are thinking about adapting it into a space bomber, I think we can safely say that it will be used for "warfare" :)

    --
    This is not a sig. This is a llama-duck. Quack.
  11. any landing by VolciMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    you can walk away from is a good landing

    1. Re:any landing by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Funny
      you can walk away from is a good landing

      True as that may be, I will always prefer a nice smooth touchdown and a leisurely taxi to the gate as opposed to trying that cool looking slide with the sounds and lights of emergency vehicles.

      Air travel is bad enough without lowering the bar any further. ;-)
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  12. yes, but let's ask about things that matter by Quadraginta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Both companies make civilian aircraft and rockets, and both do defense contracting.

    Sure, and both have vowels in their corporate name, and both are run by men who wear pants to work and not togas. But on what many see as the key point of whether a company is willing to try radically new and different ways of getting into space, ways independent of the heavy hand of NASA bureaucratic design requirements -- and this is the "independent" I suspect the OP meant -- they're as different as chalk and cheese.

    Boeing, like all aerospace majors, has tended to be very cautious about space vehicle design, perhaps in part simply because the cost-plus nature of major NASA and DoD contracts has meant there's less incentive to innovate. Why try some weird new design that may fail if the same old boring design, just multiplied by sixty, will work fine? So what if costs $bazillions? Your profit margin is guaranteed no matter how bloated the budget gets. And that does not even get into micromanagement by Congress, changing the mission requirements every 9 months at random, and institutional conservatism in NASA/DoD.

    What many people hope is that a small company that is independent of this process, in the sense that they don't have any long history with the Feds, or gigantic conventional-warfare contracts to preserve, can be more innovative, and break the apparent barrier to lowering access to space costs that seems to have solidified in the past 20 years. It seems to these people incredible that it costs no less (or at least not much less) to put x pounds in orbit in 2006 than it did in 1969. They suggest it arises from fossilization in the big aerospace industry, fused with too-close a relationship to NASA/DoD, who are themselves paralyzed by the fickleness of Congress' support and the lack of any clear vision from the President.

    Whether this is a true diagnosis of the situation remains to be seen, and people like Scaled, SpaceX, X-Cor, Virgin Galactic, et cetera will prove it one way or the other fairly soon.

    1. Re:yes, but let's ask about things that matter by waveclaw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What many people hope is that a small company that is independent of this process, in the sense that they don't have any long history with the Feds, or gigantic conventional-warfare contracts to preserve, can be more innovative, and break the apparent barrier to lowering access to space costs that seems to have solidified in the past 20 years

      Innovation? In aerospace, where everything positively has to have wings, including spacecraft? I'll tell you the innovation I' like to see: standard buses for satellites. Standard software for navigation, mission planning, etc. Most of what I see is people creating one-off solutions that cost a fortune to test, re-test and certify. The few that aren't are making Just Another Rocket. Why does this bother me? Because 99% of the parts are custom rigged for the mission, including those that have the same role since Sputnik went around the Earth 49 years ago.

      And in academia it's worse. Professors get a micro sat project and pick random not-space-hardened hardware like shitty CCD's because their brother/wife/cousin/friend has a camera that took good pictures on their vacation. Then all the students have to work around that bad choice. It's almost like a stupid corporate pet project: doomed to fail because of the idiots at the helm.

      Either that, or you could insert your favorite military-industrial-complex or CIA spy satellite consipircy theory here.

      What about the future? All the poor blokes are making rockes out in the $X desert, but they will always have to spend +6 months on gov't permits just to wipe their behinds on the launchpad let alone toss something into the air. There is a quote about cars that applied to everything in the aerospace world. If cars had developed on the same schedule as computers: they'd get 300MPG, idle at 6,000MPH, parallel park themselves, cost $100 for a low-end new model which you'd need as the patchwork of private toll roads includes tar pits and your car explodes randomly. At least with spacecraft, they already do the last and most the good Earth orbits are pretty crowded, so it really wouldn't be a change.

      --

      "You cannot have a General Will unless you have shared experiences. You cannot be fair to people you don't know."
    2. Re:yes, but let's ask about things that matter by ax_johnson · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Boeing, like all aerospace majors, has tended to be very cautious about space vehicle design, perhaps in part simply because the cost-plus nature of major NASA and DoD contracts has meant there's less incentive to innovate. Why try some weird new design that may fail if the same old boring design, just multiplied by sixty, will work fine? So what if costs $bazillions? Your profit margin is guaranteed no matter how bloated the budget gets.

      Actually, when I worked for the DoD, "cost-plus" contracts (short for "cost plus fixed fee") were a means of providing an incentive to come in on or under budget. The contract price was negotiated and agreed upon, and the "fixed fee" was determined as a percentage of the negotiated cost. If the project ran over budget, the governmnet still paid the "cost", but the "fixed fee" didn't change. Thus, the profit margin decreased. If the project came in under budget, the government again only paid the (lower) "cost", and the "fixed fee" represented a higher profit margin.

      At least that was how we used those contracts at the time. For some new weird design, the "cost-plus" structure would have some advantages for the government, because it puts some of the risk on the contractor.

      The contractor would probably want to use the "time-and-materials" mechanism where, indeed, the "profit margin is guaranteed no matter how bloated the budget gets". Then all the risk is on the government. (Perhaps this is the contract structure these projects usually use?)

      This is not to say that there isn't lots of fraud/waste/abuse in these kinds of government activities, just that it was present in many more subtle (and institutionalized) ways than just the contract mechanism or the relationship between the project mangers and the contractors.

      And that does not even get into micromanagement by Congress, changing the mission requirements every 9 months at random...

      In my experience, this is closer to the primary problem. The lack of long-term vision and leadership is the biggest killer of budgets and innovation. At the Congressional and Administration level, vision - by definition - does not extend beyond the next election.

      As important is the following: For upper and middle managers in civil service, continuously increasing your annual budget is the priority. The way you grow an organization (and by extension, your pay scale and prestige) is by increasing your budget. Decreasing your budget through effeciency or innovation shrinks the organization, your pay scale, and your prestige. (Actually, it makes your job go away, because you pay scale can't be decreased.)

      In my organization, not using all of your budget for the year in the first 3 quarters was really bad. It resulted in your remaining budget getting pulled by headquarters and sent somewhere else (where they could spend it immediately), and your budget request for the next year being cut by a corresponding (or greater) amount. It also reflected badly in preformance reviews. Consequently the incentive was this: spend as much money as fast as you can. (That was not how the management put it, of course, but that was the net effect.) I don't believe this was an isolated situation, either.

      Thus, there is no institutional incentive for cost effeciency and innovation. I think that an organization independent of this process is the only way to achieve greater cost effeciency in the near term. In the long-term the institutional incentive must be changed. A new contractor (Scaled) is a start, and maybe this is the catalyst.

      Prehaps the government project managers in charge of this NASA/DoD project have found a way to resist or avoid this dis-incentive system. [Insert diety here] knows all the project managers I worked with wanted to. I'm hoping so.

  13. This quote says it all... by tomhath · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Stuart Witt, manager of the Mojave Airport, was clearly pleased ... "It's been good to see synergistic tests springboard off previous successes and capitalize on national assets like the White Knight for other uses," Witt said.
    This guy must've managed a dotbomb company before taking a job at the airport.