I, Woz

theodp writes "In a Q&A session, Steve Wozniak discusses his forthcoming autobiography, how HP not only passed on his Apple design but also nixed his pleas to work on an HP computer, and the perks of being an Apple co-founder - free 65W AC adapters!"

Comments

Perks

[wirah]

Perks like... being stinking rich?

Woz and Jobs

[BadAnalogyGuy]

The combination of Woz and Jobs is exactly like Microsoft. You've got technical prowess underlying a massive bullshit machine. And beards and geeky glasses all around.

Re:Woz and Jobs

[MosesJones]

With only two differences

1) Paul Allen doesn't hold a technical candle to Woz
2) Bill Gates doesn't hold a visionary candle to Jobs

Without Jobs there would be no Apple, Woz would have stuck at HP and written printer drivers.

Re:Woz and Jobs

[CRCulver]

Without Jobs there would be no Apple, Woz would have stuck at HP and written printer drivers.

Even writing printer drivers can lead to great things. After all, it was a printer problem that spurred Richard Stallman towards development of GNU, which of course became the foundation for the later flourishing of Free Software and the open source development model. (Sam William's biography Free as in Freedom published by O'Reilly gives the whole story of the printer problem.) You don't need to hook up with a charismatic individual with a reality distortion field to change the world. If a controversial eccentric like Stallman can do great things from a hermit-like AI lab, then Woz would have had opportunities even without Jobs.

Re:Woz and Jobs

[Farmer Tim]

Without Jobs there would be no Apple, Woz would have stuck at HP and written printer drivers.

So that explains why HP's printer drivers suck like a starving lamprey. But surely they could have found at least one other decent software engineer in the last 30 years...

Re:Woz and Jobs

[ucblockhead]

Without Jobs there would be no Apple,

That's like saying "without your left leg, you couldn't walk".

Re:Woz and Jobs

[386spart]

2) Bill Gates doesn't hold a visionary candle to Jobs

I don't think that's true really, they just had different visions. Bills vision from a while back has been "a computer on every desk and in every home" and that has certainly happened, and almost all of those computers are running Windows.

Jobs and Gates are different kinds of geniuses, but I agree that they are probably both much more rare than the Wozniak kind of genius. There are a lot of techies so skilled at something it feels like they can control it with their minds, but who - like Woz apparently - think about getting a job in a small room in a corporate concrete bunker rather than changing the world.

Re:Woz and Jobs

[Weedlekin]

"Xerox was ahead of its time."

It was the pure R&D outfit that Xerox funded which was ahead of its time, not Xerox itself.

"Steve was merely a good salesman that recognized something good when he saw it"

Which was more than Xerox did, hence the fact that more than one of the computer visionaries at PARC left to work for Apple.

Re:Woz and Jobs

[Yer Mom]

Both Gates & Jobs are grand bullshit artists

Tsk, tsk. We Apple users pronounce it "reality distortion field".

Limitations of autobiographies

[CRCulver]

It'll be nice to get an autobiography from Woz, but the problem with many autobiographies is that they show you just one side of a person, and in the tech industry that can be dull. I think that gossipy histories like Apple Confidental 2.0 are superior, as they present a whole range of viewpoints and better show a person in context with other historical actors.

Still, I'm curious if Woz will write anything about the challenges he faced at early Apple from rude coworkers. He wasn't exactly treated fairly by Jobs and the company in its fledgling days, and a personal perspective would be interesting.

Re:Limitations of autobiographies

[Moby Cock]

He wasn't exactly treated fairly by Jobs and the company in its fledgling days

That is the long standing rumour. As you say, it'll be interesting to see if this is actually the case. Hopefully he'll discuss whether his treatment (good or bad) was warranted in the context of trying to set up a big corporation. It is always advisable to treat people decently, but there are times when circumstance dictate ruthlessness.

I'm looking forward to reading Woz's take on it all.

Re:Limitations of autobiographies

[Anonymous Coward]

"He wasn't exactly treated fairly by Jobs and the company in its fledgling days"

Oh, I dunno. I think he Woz.

Re:Limitations of autobiographies

[Lussarn]

We can probably be sure Woz will be unfairly treated by Steve after releasing this book. Woz will give out some unfavorable info on Jobs like the color of his underwear. Steve will regard this as a "trade secret" and sue the pants of Woz.

Re:Limitations of autobiographies

[Moby Cock]

And then we'll see the colour of Woz' underwear :D

From the article

[Wellington Grey]

I was in Boston once. I needed two AC adapters. I ran into this new Apple store. I went up to the counter, "I'd like two 65-watt AC adapters." I didn't say anything about who I was. And they bring them out. I say, "How much?" They say, "We are expensing it." I said, "Yeah, but how do I pay for it?" They said, "No, no, no -- we are allowed to give gifts to special people."

Man oh man, I'd love to know the criterion to get on that list.

-Grey

Re:From the article

[kklein]

I used to do tech support for Apple (outsourced). The official policy (from Apple) was "If Woz calls, give him whatever he wants and don't ask any questions." And one day I got him on the phone, he read me a list of SNs for out-of-warranty PowerBooks he needed repaired (he does something with PBs and disabled kids--or at least did in 1995), and I sent him the appropriate number of Airborne Express boxes for them to be pulled into NY for repair. It was one of the coolest calls I handled, cooler than when Howard Stern called for his friend who couldn't speak English. Both guys, BTW, were really really nice.

Re:From the article

[Anonymous Coward]

"...cooler than when Howard Stern called for his friend who couldn't speak English. Both guys, BTW, were really really nice...!

Well, with Stern allegedly scoring highly for "antisocial personality disorder" on DSM-IV (ie. an old skool psychopath), it's not surprising that he can turn on the ol' superficial charm at the drop of a hat. Similarly, a lot of high-level executives score very highly on the same scale

Just don't get between either of 'em and their goals: Then, you won't be a fellow human being, just a puppet, a cipher, a disposable and infuriating obstacle...

Re:From the article

[ipxodi]

Why do I envision a sudden surge of phone calls to Apple support saying, "Hi, This is Woz. I need....."

Re:From the article

[Paradise Pete]

Man oh man, I'd love to know the criterion to get on that list.

I'll bet now that it's out that Steve sends him a bill.

Re:A not An

[NoName Studios]

Yeah, the summary totally had me fooled as well. How could they screw up spelling copmputer?

Re:A not An

[tverbeek]

Not if you pronounce "H" as "aitch", Miss Doolittle. ("In 'Artford, 'Ereford, and 'Ampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly hever 'appen," indeed.)

Couldn't we argue over something relevant - such as "WOHZ-nee-ak" vs. "WAHZ-nee-ak" - instead?

Power Adapters

[SillyWilly]

I'm not surprised free AC Adapters are a perk of founding Apple. Certainly my experience with my PowerBook has been that they need replacing every 12 months if not sooner.

Step 1: Invent the Apple I

[wiredog]

Step 2: Be Woz.

he woz different

[digitaldc]

"My goal wasn't to make a ton of money. It was to build good computers. I only started the company when I realized I could be an engineer forever."

I woz truly blown away by this statement.

Re:he woz different

[grumling]

"My goal wasn't to make a ton of money. It was to build good computers. I only started the company when I realized I could be an engineer forever."

I woz truly blown away by this statement.

Most real entrepreneurs want to make a product or perfom a service first, make money second. Money is what makes it all possible.

friends

[l3v1]

That's actually one of the nicest things Steve does for me: He makes sure I am always invited to the VIP guest area for the product rollouts. I appreciate that more than I can ever say.

I can appreciate one who knows what's most important in life, and one of those things is not forgetting who your friends are, and sticking by them all along. Even if it's just small things, which is the job of some secretary.

Re:friends

[elrous0]

Obviously you guys have never heard the story of how Steve Job screwed Woz over in the infamous Atari deal back in the early days (Woz himself tell the story on this Q&A page).

Woz was a good guy, the real deal. Jobs was a shark, focused mostly on how he could exploit people like Woz to make money.

-Eric

Hey Woz!

[MichaelSmith]

I see that you have a nice list of your friends web pages on your site which is great, including the link to Kevin Mitnick's site which is nice because he was in jail and everything but now it redirects to Kevin's new business which I don't have any problem with either, except that Mitnick has actualy spent time in jail for doing bad things to people and their systems and now seems to make money advising people how to steer clear of people like himself.

I'm not making any suggestions or anything, just pointing that out.

Re:Hey Woz!

[Josh teh Jenius]

FYI: The Minick story is about as tainted as any current discussion of Bush.

Not defending either, mind you. I usually like Wiki too. At this point, the Mitnick story is nothing but a 2600 PR stunt from the 90's, which is sad, becuase it really was a fascinating legal case, and a wonderful precursor to the PATRIOT ACT.

Read your history, kids.

Re:Hey Woz!

[Code Herder]

Woz isn't squeeky clean either, with the whole blue box deal etc.

Re:Hey Woz!

[Josh teh Jenius]

Sorry for the false-start there, guys.

Let me say the following about our pal "free" Kevin:

a) As a hacker in recovery, I have a *very* tainted opinion here.

b) The suspension of Mr. Mitnick's Constitutional rights to due process were not justified.

c) The suspension of those rights, in the interest of protecting "national security", set a dangerous precedent.

The great thing about American law is that almost *everything* involved in the case is public record. If Google gives you grief, try Lexis Nexis.

Rather than spout my own inane opinions, I'll just suggest anyone looking for a solid term paper topic try "Kevin Mitnick: a precursor to the PATRIOT ACT?".

Only Kevin knows the "real" story, and like most hackers, he is far too egotistical to tell us the truth either. My interest in the case is not "w00t teh planet", but rather, the actions of our OWN judicial system, and their justification of those actions. Read the story. Find those facts. Then you tell me:

Who was the bad guy in this case?

P.S. Pro or con, agree or disagree, I'd love to read it if anyone takes me up on this.

P.P.S. As other posters have pointed out: Gates stole DOS, Woz was a "hacker", and the definition of that term has been totally destroyed by politics and media.

P.P.P.S. Seriously. You guys bitching about the misuse of "gay" have got NOTHING on the guys (like me) bitching about the misuse of "hacker".

Actually Woz was the more important Steve ...

[AHumbleOpinion]

Actually Woz was the more important Steve, the one people liked, the engineer rather than the salesman, the one who was not under the delusion that he could run a corporation, the one who decided not to make employees suffer under decades of on-the-job training while he developed the skills, the one who decided to do something more important, the one who was always welcome at Apple, the one person "at" Apple who doesn't need to care what Jobs thinks ...

Re:Actually Woz was the more important Steve ...

[hey!]

the one who was not under the delusion that he could run a corporation

Um, we're being ironic here, right?

Woz and Jobs are definitely yin and yang, but they do have one thing in common: they know what's important to them. And that gives them a kind of power that verges on the spiritual. They don't, like most of us, blunder through the life taking the path of least resistance and rationizing their decisions after the fact. They have "purpose driven lives".

As to who is happiest of the two Steves, I'd have to say that while Jobs probably feels the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat more intensely, I'd much rather be Woz, because he seems to be the kind of person who can find find satisfaction in each day's work. The thing that makes Jobs a bit creepy is that if you ever had his attention, you'd always wonder if it was because he had a use for you in some agenda. Woz is the kind of guy who just wants to do what he's good at, like a Shaker furniture maker. Because his motivations are simpler, you'd naturally feel more comfortable with him.

Re:Actually Woz was the more important Steve ...

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing that really impressed me about Woz was that he answered an email I sent, unsolicited, and sent more than a cursory form mail response. He had jjust appeared on The Screen Savers a couple years ago and I thought, "waht the hell, I'll drop him an email and see what happens..." I just simply thanked him for his work and told of a couple ways that it had positively impacted my life and that I was appreciative. He responded with a very long email and related a couple anecdotes and was very open and witty. Seems like a genuinely good guy.

Re:Actually Woz was the more important Steve ...

[Admiral Ag]

It's unfair for people to slag off Jobs. Sure Woz is the more personally appealing of the two, and sure, he appeals more to the average /. reader, since he's the engineer type, but Jobs has done far more for the company, and is in many ways the more remarkable person.

Jobs is extremely good at getting the right people to do the right thing, and getting them to do it as best as they can. Like many bosses he's by all accounts somewhat of an asshole, but I guess most people in his position are a bit like that. He is the person who should take most of the credit for saving Apple.

Jobs' personal stamp is all over everything that Apple makes, particularly its consumer level stuff. It seems to me that some people here just don't get it. There's an old interview with Jobs floating around on the net where he accuses Microsoft of having no taste. That's sort of the point with Apple: it's not enough just to make stuff that works, it always has to be done with one eye on the aesthetics of the computer experience. Apple under Jobs has characteristically produced machines and software with a simplistic Zen-like design that attempt to be works of art (and in some cases arguably succeed). If you are the sort of person who only cares about what is quantifiable in technical terms, then you aren't going to really get Apple's way of doing things. That's why people like the iPod... it's just a cool piece of kit. Comparing it with other players on technical grounds alone misses the point. It's rivals are almost uniformly hideous and lack any sense of proportion or beauty.

I guess if you wanted to sum it up, Apple's philosophy is that a computer (or whatever they are flogging this week) should be an organic whole, not merely a prettified piece of technical equipment. The Apple aesthetic is a fundamental part of the user experience, and one which attracts a following. That's Jobs' doing for the most part.

If you don't like that sort of stuff, then fair enough, but to me it seems that it is akin to the difference between someone who is incredibly technically proficient with the guitar, but has no real sense of what makes good music, and someone who has both.

Actually Woz has the god-like status ...

[AHumbleOpinion]

Actually Woz has the god-like status, Jobs is more like the delusional emporer ...

Re:Woz + Jobs, RMS + MIA?

[dwandy]

If a controversial eccentric like Stallman can do great things from a hermit-like AI lab, then Woz would have had opportunities even without Jobs.

The question for me isn't "has RMS done a lot for free as in freedom?" but rather, "how much more could RMS have done as the thinker behind someone charismatic?

I do wonder how many people see RMS like a train-wreck: sure, they can't help but to look, but it doesn't change their lives/opinions/etc.

I disagree

[jocknerd]

Woz, was and is a brilliant engineer. But there are hundreds like him. But there aren't many like Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs IS Apple. Look what they did without him. 12 years of absolutely nothing. Steve Jobs launched the Macintosh. Then he started NeXT which was a decade ahead of its time. Then he brought Apple back from near extinction. Can you think of another corporation that can yield such influence over an industry while having less than 10% market share? Oh, and somewhere in his spare time, he bought a little animation studio and turned it into a force.

Re:I disagree

[jocknerd]

Proof that Steve Jobs owned Pixar:
http://news.com.com/Pixar+goes+to+Hollywood/2009-1 026_3-6030125.html

Smoke that!

Re:I disagree

[Funkcikle]

Poor old Woz, though. How long now has he been trundling out the same old anecdotes and "When I was at Apple..." stories? He really needs to get himself involved in something REALLY serious and demanding.

Of course, he has an autobiography to promote but the sad fact is that the story of his life has been circulating for years now via oral tradition. Here is a sneak preview!

Chapter One - Me and my friend Steve
Chapter Two - My friend Steve sucks
Chapter Three - My friend Steve is cool
Chapter Four - Did you hear about the really cool disk drive controller I invented?
Chapter Five - More on that drive controller...
Chapter Six - Chapter Five in diagram form
Chapter Seven - THE WOZ and THE FUTURE - my plans for disk drive controllers and free computers for children
Chapter Eight - Resume and references. Available for work on anything! Please! Just give me a chance!

Re:Step 1: Invent the Apple I

[elrous0]

Step 3: Hook up with a meglomaniacal business shark with enough charisma to attract a cult following.

-Eric

Jobs is like General MacArthur, "I" vs "We" ...

[AHumbleOpinion]

Woz, was and is a brilliant engineer. But there are hundreds like him. But there aren't many like Steve Jobs.

I'm sorry but you have that backwards. Exceptional engineers are far less common than exceptional saleman.

Steve Jobs IS Apple. Look what they did without him. 12 years of absolutely nothing. Steve Jobs launched the Macintosh.

Jobs is the PR face of Apple and the Mac. The brilliant innovation started at Xerox and continued with the very talented engineers at Apple. Jobs is merely a good saleman who recognized a good thing when he saw it at Xerox. Like Woz, the Xerox and Apple engineers who deserve the real credit are overshadows by the PR face.

Then he started NeXT which was a decade ahead of its time.

Actually in business school they study NeXT as an example of how to royally f' up.

Then he brought Apple back from near extinction. Can you think of another corporation that can yield such influence over an industry while having less than 10% market share?

Actually what saved Apple were the big developers say "NO" to Jobs and forcing Jobs to put backwards compatibility into Mac OS X. Jobs return and the surrounding PR machine was like the Microsoft cash investment, it was reassuring, it bought the Apple engineers some more time.

Oh, and somewhere in his spare time, he bought a little animation studio and turned it into a force.

Again salesmanship, again a PR face overshadowing the real talent, ... Also note in this is an industry where salesmanship has a pretty heavy influence.

Jobs is like World War II's General MacArthur. "I" rather than "We", camera crew filming his wading ashore and dominating the newsreels, ... Of course Jobs differs from MacArthur in that Jobs is not a genius.

Re:Jobs is like General MacArthur, "I" vs "We" ...

[meburke]

My Dad knew General MacArthur personally, and suffered the consequences of that knowledge: He was shot at the battle of Agno Crossing, shot again and captured the day after Cristmas, survived the Bataan Death March (only, he says, because he was an officer) and spent 44 months in Japanese prison camps. Dad only expressed one criticism of MacArthur: MacArthur would not listen to views or acknowledge information that contradicted his own views or opinions. That is why the original conflict in the Phillipines was such a mess, and MacArthur's reputation is forever diminished in my mind by the hardship he caused American soldiers.

On the other hand, MacArthur was part of a system, and once the necessities of the system overcame the individual idosyncracies of the persons responsible for operating the system, he contributed something valuable to the final outcome.

The same is true of Steve Jobs: A business is a system. It requires certain talents and abilities in order to function. Sales without a good product will not survive, but an outstanding product without Sales will not survive either. In this case, the system provided both parties with what they wanted. They got to do what they wanted, they were rewarded for it, and (presumably) they both got satifaction and felt good about themselves from doing it. But without giving the system what it needed to function, neither would have been successful.

Mike

Not go gushing about Woz but.....

[Danathar]

What can anybody say? He's like the Mother Teresa of Geekdom. The man does not seem to have an evil bone in his body. Although woz would probably not like it, there should be some sort of Nerd/Geek cannonization....

St. Woz!

Re:Not go gushing about Woz but.....

[An ominous Cow art]

I agree. I heard him speak at the 5th HOPE a couple of years ago. Great guy.

I have to admit I was disappointed to find out that he drove a %^&*ing Hummer, though.

Re:Not go gushing about Woz but.....

[poot_rootbeer]

Although woz would probably not like it, there should be some sort of Nerd/Geek cannonization....

I wouldn't like to be shot out of a cannon, either.

Some Geeks might, but I'd imagine that only applies in smaller circuses, where there's few enough that the same guy who bites heads of chickens also has to perform as an acrobat...

Switch to narcissism

[cerebis]

LANAP but if you ask me, Jobs is a perfect case study for clinical narcissism.

It's not a totally uncommon condition in people that achieve great things after striving for many more years than a more rational person might, but not everyone thus afflicted has the necessary talent to accompany them in that struggle.

Clearly, people seem to attribute most of Jobs success to Jobs well publisized/marketed degree of talent for design and foresight. These are the two skills that seem to have the most cacher when persuing "god of the industry" status.

However the skill that benefitted him the most by far, the skill he has always had right from the beginning, is the ability to deeply excite other people about his ideas. Enough that he could convince some of the absolutely best people in their various fields to leave the pleasant, comfortable jobs and work for him.

These people were time and again totally crucial the success of his business ventures. The ventures were not always successful in their own right, but always ended up with at least some great IP that could be mated to another idea.

Re:Unquestionably, "I, Woz" is the best title ever

[sconeu]

If Jobs had co-written it, it would have been "iWoz".

repeat

[mgabrys_sf]

That's a reprint of an interview done by the San Jose Mercury News over 14 days ago.