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Triple Boot on MacBooks Working
MikeTheMan writes "By now, everyone probably heard that Apple's recently-released Boot Camp software allows users to install Windows XP alongside OS X. But now, people at OnMac.net have discovered how to triple-boot OS X, Windows XP, and Linux. There are instructions on the Wiki for getting Gentoo running, but it is probably trivial to get other distros working as well."
(or whatever other OS might be fashinable, *BSD, ...)
I'm not going to buy a macbook until it can run all the major OSes and emulate Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2 and PS3. And it had to have a cell phone built in, as well as an iPod.
And it has to have an awesome case mod too. Because products are never good the way they are released, we always have to mess with them!
While you guys with macs are looking to boot into windows, I'm looking to boot windows OFF of my laptop.
Sometimes I think I should be in comedy. Funny, yes i know.
Since when is any major OS vendor's security reached through obscurity of its file system ? I would contend NTFS is much like th binary word format, a format that helps microsoft alot more than the people that use it.
BTW apple does not required that the partition be FAT32, it is just more compatible and mountable with other OS's.
This is cool, I like it, but I want to dual boot on the Mac Mini; and by dual boot I mean like I have it now on my old iBook -- OS X and Linux. I don't want Windows on it. So, my question, when you boot holding down the 'option' key on the Mac can you make it so you'll have the option of OS X or Linux instead of having to rely on the NT bootloader to choose Linux? I'm sure after that you could hack out the Windows icon so you just have the X and Tux on the select screen.
So, can it be done? Would it require hacking Boot Camp? Did Apple make this easy to modify? Also, I saw that the Linux ATI drivers work; do they support the graphics card in the Minis? I'm waiting for my local shop to get the Mini Duo Core's in, then I'll likely jump in, but I want to dual boot from there, like I do now.
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some people just don't like OS X or Aqua. To each their own. I personally prefer it. It is well integrated. Finder kinda of sucks, but hey nothing's perfect. At least it's better than windows. and keeps KDE on it's toes. Now if i was running non mac hardware then it's Linux and KDE.
With Apple now shipping x86 computers people are starting to realize that yea Apple hardware really is higher than average PC quality. Apple x86 machines are jumping to the top of the list for performance vs price. Something that Apple Fanatics have been saying for years but no one really believed them.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
I, for one, welcome our new triple-booting overlords.
I created an NTFS partition no problem. Mac OS X even mounted it for me to read from (I didn't try writing though...)
You really should research what you say before spewing lies.
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Exactly what kind of security is file-system supported on a Macbook? If you're using your Macbook as a multi-user Windows server, using NTFS support of user private data - well, perhaps you should worry less about filesystem insecurity and more about hardware selection. NTFS support of private user data is pretty useless anyway, it's fairly trivial to work around, especially on a windows box.
Perhaps the GP believes that a file system with actual file permissions (such an NTFS) might be more secure than one without (FAT32). True, one still has to get the users to stop running as Administrator.
I do a lot of development on a Mac (in Eclipse, XCode and SubEthaEdit) and I've never found it necessary to look at the Finder for 10 minutes.
Similarly, when developing on a Windows box, I spend very little time gazing upon Windows Explorer.
What exactly is your strategy for development? Browsing the file system does not a developer make.
Using HTML in email is like putting sound effects on your phone calls. Just say <strong>no</strong>.
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Unless you are creating file shares on the machine itself going with NTFS is moot. Assuming the user gets physical access to the machine and yanks the drive, it doesn't matter if you are running Fat32 or NTFS. NTFS permissions are trivial, unless you are using EFS encryption in XP, but then you could always use PGP or Truecrypt or any other 3rd party encryption.
This is a perfect opportunity for the NetBSD crowd. They're experts at creating an OS that runs very well on very specific machinery. With some effort and direction, they could produce the premiere alternative UNIX for these Mac systems.
We haven't seen a comparably standardized system since the SGI Indy, and that was over a decade ago. This time around the system is far more affordable, too. It'll lower the participation barrier for your average Joe and Jill Developer.
Apple doesn't "want you to" use fat32. They helpfully suggest using it, as mac os x cannot natively write to an ntfs partition, but it can write to fat32. It's a simple practical consideration, not some conspiracy.
I always thought CHRP was a great idea, and it seems to me that the MacIntel platform running bootcamp IS the reincarnation of CHRP. I think that if Apple can run the price of their hardware down enough and incorporate things like card readers etc. into the front panel, they could really increase market share in a big way. For example:
Here's an interesting idea, that could save a company vast sums of cash:
Buy apple hardware, and triple boot the suckers, and wave bye bye to the vast collection of test boxen that clutter the labs.
Granted: specific software that is dependent on specific hardware that doesn't fly with the mac platform won't be testable, but some huge vast percentage of what is out there doesn't operate that way, and this would especially be true of internet based applications.
So, instead of using a old Intel box that's been re-grooved to do Linux (initial cost, say, $1000) and ANOTHER Intel/AMD box for Windows (say, another $1000) and an Apple computer to test the Apple build (say, $1500), you now just buy the MacIntel box, ($1500) and install Windows and Linux and you're done.
This multiboot thing will be especially impressive as Microsoft continues along this idiotic path of multiple flavours of Windows. God ferbid they just make one REALLY GOOD version that does the job properly (a la OSX).
But this Bootcamp thing could save some companies millions of dollars. They could upgrade their labs to Apple computers, run bootcamp, and say bye bye to HP/Dell/Gateway/etc. forever, fulfilling the beautiful vision of CHRP.
Works for me.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Two words: Path Finder.
I'm not trying to flame or anything, but it seems like you can get pretty much anything you want out of simply dual-booting OSX and Windows without throwing Linux or BSD into the batch.
Many Bothans died to bring you this sig.
For life to get easier, we get OUR tools RIGHT for the job and "Get it Working", meaning efficiently.
Lots of different work is out there for different people.
For me, Boot Camp simply means efficient work with one fewer laptops being paid for, maintained & carried around, while still being able to run at virtually native hardware speed...no more, no less.
End of Subject.
This is an excellent step. Now if only someone can get the overcomplication down a little, maybe so that Linux boots directly from EFI and I don't have to choose "windos" first each time I actually want to boot Linux - that's just torture, isn't it?
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Um I only bought my first Mac with in the last year. I had been switching myself out of windows hell and into Linux for years, so the switch wasn't all that hard. When my last to machines(a custom built athlon and a dell) both died I decided to stop wasting money trying to cobble to together random hardware and let the experts do it for me. As I said I tried Dell but the only thing they have going for them is price. frankly one dell machine my roommate is afraid to reboot(and hence patch) it. it only boots about 10 percent of the time. Others broke down after just a year, or came DOA.
If a package feels better physically then there is a good chance the rest of it isn't bad either. Apple spends more on quality packaging limiting damage to shipping. That doesn't mean there has never been a DOA or bad a Mac. But the percentage is a hell of a lot lower than Dell's. A fact that has been shown numerous times. it's not about making a perfect product it's about making the best one you can not just the cheapest like HP and Dell do.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
That latin phrase you keep saying - I do not think it means what you think it means.
"The first Porsche, the Porsche 64 from 1938, used many components from the Volkswagen Beetle." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche
It sounds ideal for cross-platform application development --- you only need one machine, and just need to reboot when porting/compiling to your 'non-primary' platforms. Combine with a decent cross-platform API like wxWidgets for best results. Make it a MacBook and you're portable too, and with all three platforms available to give product demos depending on who you're selling to.
With Apple now shipping x86 computers people are starting to realize that yea Apple hardware really is higher than average PC quality.
Actually that is a misperception due to the fact that Apple hardware + Apple software has fewer problems. With a limitted number of video, audio, ethernet, etc chipsets to support it is far easier to offer a more reliable system. The overall reliability colors the perception of the hardware. When you pop open a Dell you find a rather well designed and assembled system, comparable to what I find inside Mac towers. I've seen/owned enough Apple lemons over the years, seen/had enough bad components in Macs, and see Apple currently shipping some poorly designed but stylish components right now. Would I hesitate to buy yet another Mac? Nope. Neither would I hesitate to buy yet another Dell. Now a local whitebox PC, I'll pass, I would rather by best-of-breed components myself and do a homebuilt system. I wouldn't really save money or get better quality, but I would have a little fun and have made absolutely no compromises with respect to components.
If you would like to say Apple hardware is more stylish then I would agree.
There's no non-Windows write support for NTFS, barring captive NTFS (which uses Window's DLL) and the latest linux NTFS driver, which does NOT support changing file sizes or creating new files (frankly it barely qualifies as write support).
.....
NTFS is a moving target. Reading is not a big problem, since it won't corrupt the disk. Writing to the disk is very difficult.
Don't blame Apple, blame Microsoft. HFSplus is properly documents, NTFS is not.
Look at it this way; you say that NTFS support is limited on OS X? Well, what about HFS+ support in Windows? Right; it doesn't exist.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
I'm a linux noob, but i'm not clear why you'd WANT to boot Linux in this case, other than maybe if you are a multi-OS admin.
Not admins, you can admin Linux boxes from BSD or Windows systems. Balmer offers the non because-it-is-there answer: developers, developers, developers. The Linux and BSD APIs differ enough that you really need to build and test your software on both platforms on a pretty regular basis. This is less of a problem on more traditional BSD systems since Linux emulation is generally offered during installation. I'm pretty sure Linux emulation is not a standard feature of Mac OS X or part of the developer tools installation. Someone else will have to comment on how easy it would be to add yourself.
If you have no experience of developing on a Mac, why do you feel the need to comment on it?
I don't know if the gp has experience on Macs, but this has been a problem for many years, and I don't see it going away. People will make comments on things they know nothing about any chance they get, either to spread FUD, or simply because they like the sound of their own voice (or text equivalent). Hence entire companies will believe whatever their clueless IT dept tells them when it comes to Macs.
This sucks. Now all of those Linux game developers will never port their games over to OS X. Instead, they'll just say, "Even though there is such high demand, we don't need to port Tux Racer to OS X. Just install Linux on your Mac." Son of a whore!
This driver is at least 6 years old and they STILL haven't gotten stable writing to NTFS partitions working yet? Why is this so difficult? They could've written a dozen journaling filesystems in the amount of time it took to get the half-assed NTFS support implemented. Can't they just phone up Microsoft and get some tips on what they're having a problem with?
That's incorrect. You have to back up your certificate and usually good to go, failing this (and hopefully a bit of forthought) you can recover encrypted volumes through use of a recovery agent. A recovery agent is a user account with a certificate capable of recovering the lost volumes. On workgroups this is the local administrator account. On a domain it's the domain administrator by default. The catch is that before you implement EFS you have to designate the recovery agent. So it's very possible to recover lost data on an ntfs volume. You just have to be smart about it.
I'd be interested to know if it is possible to buy a MacIntel without OSX preinstalled.
OSX doesn't fulfill my needs as a primary OS, but the CoreDuo Mac Mini has appeal as a low temperature SFF Linux box. If Apple do reach even half the market share they once had, I wonder if we'll be seeing an increase in demand for the hardware they distribute without the OS tax? Given that Asustek and Quanta make all of the Apple hardware, my next best bet is that Asus simply put out a blank SFF box with the same spec as the Mini.
Mac OS X, Windows, Linux and Solaris as well.
Yet hundreds of millions do it every day.
Using secret, closed-source software developed by the file system designers.
What's your point?
NTFS is an overly complex file system, with incomplete documentation. Making small changes to it tends to break it and/or corrupt data.
Furthermore, why not just run NT/2000/XP on Ext2? Use a small FAT32 boot partition, and keep all your data on Ext2.
File system driver here. You can get read/write support on Ext2 on all major operating systems, and Linux will journal Ext2(Ext3 is a transparent upgrade).
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
People like you just gloss over it because it comes in a fancy package. It feels better even though it isn't. Shallow is what you are.
Surprisingly, my first impression of taking my Mac Mini (PowerPC) out of the box was all tactile. The weight, the construction, and all the surfaces felt "different". I'm not holding another piece of electronic equipment, but a masterpiece of computer engineering. That was a significant "wow" factor for me. Less than two months, I was completely switched over to the Mac. I used my Windows desktop for playing games and I use VNC on my Windows laptop to access my Mac desktop.