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Sun's Global Desktop Released

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the shiny-new-toys dept.

aphaenogaster writes "Suns Global Desktop version 4.2 has been released and appears to be quite effective. Applications load very quickly, and is not limited to Sparc or Solaris. Applications piped to a desktop across a slow DSL line appear to work very well. Sun has also set up a test server for users to play with."

96 comments

  1. Who copied who? by bogaboga · · Score: 2, Informative

    To put it better, who innovated first? Was is SUN or NoMachine? You can test Linux out via a slow DSL line at http://www.nomachine.com/. A faster one would be better though.

    1. Re:Who copied who? by poopie · · Score: 1

      Tarantella was around _way_ before NX.

      So, to be accurate, SCO innovated (gasp!)

    2. Re:Who copied who? by Allnighterking · · Score: 1

      Seeing as how they are both coming off of the RDP protocol they have roots in VNC which harks back to even earlier protocols.

      --

      I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.

    3. Re:Who copied who? by NitsujTPU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Neither, both look like modern realizations of a number of technologies that exist and/or have existed for a while. If nobody's suing, what difference does it make?

    4. Re:Who copied who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.htm

    5. Re:Who copied who? by beevan_jedi · · Score: 1

      That's not really true. Both NX and SGD translate RDP into a protocol their clients support. In the NX case, it eventually gets converted into X11. And Tarantella was around way before RDP: It came out of Cambridge, England around the same time that VNC did.

    6. Re:Who copied who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever hear of Windows Terminal Server? Predated NoMachine. Uh-oh. Will you be forced to admit that microsoft "innovated" ? (lucky for you, they didn't invent it either). By the way, what do you think X terminals originally were?

    7. Re:Who copied who? by 10Ghz · · Score: 1

      Well, Tarantella is not the same SCO as the one who we know and love.

      --
      Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
    8. Re:Who copied who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't Windows Terminal Server based on Citrix MetaFrame (1997)?

      Will you be forced to admit that microsoft "innovated"

      From the same link...

      "Microsoft has a longstanding agreement with Citrix to facilitate sharing of technologies and patent licensing between Microsoft Terminal Services and Citrix Presentation Server (formerly Citrix MetaFrame). In this arrangement, Citrix has access to key source code for the Windows platform enabling their developers to improve the security and performance of the Terminal Services platform."

      If you consider licensing technology from another company innovation, then yes, Microsoft is innovative in this case, otherwise they are merely reselling another companies innovation (and yes, I realize even Citrix is not truly innovative in this case due to prior technology).

      Jim

  2. SUN has done it again by Cyberax · · Score: 5, Funny

    Remember the last time when SUN made a public-available demo of their grid-computing thingy.

    I wonder how much time it... Oh wait, their server is already down.

    1. Re:SUN has done it again by Craptastic+Weasel · · Score: 5, Funny

      Article fixed for link...
      Sun has also set up a test server for users to play with."

    2. Re:SUN has done it again by Eil · · Score: 4, Funny

      I wonder how much time it... Oh wait, their server is already down.

      The next server is almost ready. Subscribers can slashdot it early!

    3. Re:SUN has done it again by schmu_20mol · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the Sun Secure Global Desktop demonstration server

      ... well, it was the demonstration server until it got mentioned on Slashdot - now it's only demonstrating how we didn't size it with this sort of load in mind.
      Probably best to check back in in a couple of days - it should be available again...

      --
      "Nae Kin! Nae Quin! Nae laird! Nae master! We willna be fooled again!"
    4. Re:SUN has done it again by RedOregon · · Score: 1

      Just went out and checked it; it's back up and running rather quickly.

      --
      Skivvy Niner? Email me!
      HEY! Look left just ONE MORE TIME!
  3. I'm a mere user and... by David+Hume · · Score: 3, Interesting
    FTFA:
    Secure Global Desktop Software allows you to:

            * Access applications from nearly any location on the internet over a secure connection without specialized hardware
    Sweet!
    * Reduce costs by centralizing management of users and applications
    To tell you the truth, I really don't care, but if it helps save money, leading to me getting a raise....
    * Enable auditing of application usage
    What??? Oh oh... I don't like this. How can I use the software for my *own* work... and play... after hours, of course.
    * Dramatically reduce the time to securely deliver applications
    Well, ok.
    * Ensure users can access only applications they are authorized to use
    And this is supposed to be an advantage? I guess I better update my resume on Monster.com... from the Starbucks down the street.
    * Increase resiliency by housing application sessions at the data center and not on individual PCs
    Lord knows, I'm not a techie, but it *increases* "reliliency" by having the applications located at the data center and not my PC??? And if I can't access the Data Center? Or if the application there becomes corrupt, virus infected, etc.?

    More seriously, part of my compensation package, whether my employer realizes it or not, is access to applications and a modicum of control over my PC, applications, and user experience. Take those away, and I'm less than a happy camper.
    --
    Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
    1. Re:I'm a mere user and... by iamdrscience · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Lord knows, I'm not a techie, but it *increases* "reliliency" by having the applications located at the data center and not my PC??? And if I can't access the Data Center? Or if the application there becomes corrupt, virus infected, etc.?
      Well, it cuts both ways, if you're running all your applications on one server, and that one machine goes down, you're fucked, but you only have to maintain one machine, not the multitudes of machines running your application. In the end, which setup makes the most sense depends on what type of application you're using.
    2. Re:I'm a mere user and... by David+Hume · · Score: 1
      Well, it cuts both ways, if you're running all your applications on one server, and that one machine goes down, you're fucked, but you only have to maintain one machine, not the multitudes of machines running your application. In the end, which setup makes the most sense depends on what type of application you're using.
      Who is this "you" that is being referred to? It certainly isn't me . I'm a "mere user." I don't have to maintain the multitudes of machines running my applications. Somebody else does.

      And yes, that is part of my compensation package. :)
      --
      Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
    3. Re:I'm a mere user and... by pavera · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lord knows, I'm not a techie, but it *increases* "reliliency" by having the applications located at the data center and not my PC??? And if I can't access the Data Center? Or if the application there becomes corrupt, virus infected, etc.?

      Ok, so you trust your desktop machine with a 40GB IDE disk drive, that you admit you install applications and such onto (probably from the internet), so you've got at least 1 virus, and probably 300-400 hits on a random run of spybot... and that power supply in your system isn't redundant, and if you have a UPS it maybe lasts for 5 minutes... but you trust that more than the 2 redundant servers in the data center, with triple redundant power supplies, a RAID5 SAN, and redundant NICs, and a 6 hour UPS sitting underneath it....

      See, with this system, you can get full redundancy for the whole enterprise by simply building a 2-3 machine cluster... Everything is redundant, and I guarantee you I can build a system that will smoke your little Dell as far as reliability is concerned, and I can do it for the cost of maybe 10 standard PCs...

      Oh yeah, and now you can access your applications from any internet connected computer, not just your Dell that sits in your cube. Also, now your computer at your cube can be replaced by a completely silent, fanless, no moving parts thin client...

      If you believe part of your compensation package is being able to make system admins life hell... well I'm glad I don't work at the same place you do. Besides the license violations your machine probably presents (I know I worked at a firm that got audited by the SBA, and you wonderful users with your "Oh, I think I'll just install this app even though the IT guys told me I couldn't" cost that company more than 750k in fines). 99% of all "computer" problems are problems with some crap software the users have installed... "But I have to have this new nifty 3d Screensaver with weather reports"... Oh it logs all my keystrokes and sends them to a server in the Ukraine, and it also attempts to automatically install this software on random PCs across the internet and that's why the network has been slow for the last week? I don't care I've gotta see this cool 3d butterfly! Or my favorite was the lady who kept installing real networks player (even though we uninstalled it almost every night from her machine) to watch real time video of birds hatching... on a 128k ISDN line that fed 100+ employees... and everyone wondered why for 2 months in the spring the internet was mysteriously slow...

      Part of your compensation package is not to use the computer systems however you feel... They are provided to do a job, not watch movies or play MP3s, and they are certainly not provided to allow you to run up expenses in the IT dept. If you want that go purchase your own PC, but leave the company systems to their proper function.

    4. Re:I'm a mere user and... by MagicMike · · Score: 2, Insightful


      I'm sorry - but something's amiss here.

      You proclaim you can make a more resilient setup with centralized, network-accessible services, but you were unable to find (and permanently fix) a one-PC bandwidth problem in two months?

      Now, I'm all for centralized services when it makes sense, but you haven't sold me in this case ;-)

      Nothing personal, that one just jumped out at me. Maybe it was the idea of watching baby birds hatching live...

    5. Re:I'm a mere user and... by fferreres · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are probably a developer/sysadmin...this is for a company operating in 7 countries with 25,000 notebooks/desktops for specific purposes, like POS, specific apps, etc.).

      Companies do not want every employee being a vulnerability due to malware, virus, etc. can cause chaos. This is not for you.

      --
      unfinished: (adj.)
    6. Re:I'm a mere user and... by 0xA · · Score: 1
      You are probably a developer/sysadmin...this is for a company operating in 7 countries with 25,000 notebooks/desktops for specific purposes, like POS, specific apps, etc.).

      I inherited a POS project like this a few years ago. It's a crappy idea in most some cases.

      If you have say a home depot with redundant T3s then great, of course they already do this. If you have a chain of smaller stores in malls across the country with DSL connections it won't fly. The reliability isn't there.

    7. Re:I'm a mere user and... by blane.bramble · · Score: 1

      Who is this "you" that is being referred to? It certainly isn't me . I'm a "mere user." I don't have to maintain the multitudes of machines running my applications. Somebody else does.

      And, as a user, your main concern is whether or not the applications are available. So, it doesn't really matter whether it is you, or not, what matters is that the maintenance is easier. Also, if the apps are centralised, they are running from server class hardware, not that £299 Dell that the boss saw an offer for in the back of a magazine. It's the same reason your data is generally safer on the server than on your desktop - better hardware and a managed backup policy etc.

    8. Re:I'm a mere user and... by dfgchgfxrjtdhgh.jjhv · · Score: 1


      i really think you should get another job, if you really are an admin, because you really arent suited to the job.

      your users install crap *because you let them*.

      its your fault that company got fined 750k, if you were responsible for that network.

      its your fault it took 2 months to diagnose a bandwidth problem & by the sound of it, it could happen again.

      99% of your problems are caused by crap your users install, because you obviously have no idea how to lock down a system.

      --
      Web Design
    9. Re:I'm a mere user and... by rikkards · · Score: 1

      Its your fault that company got fined 750k, if you were responsible for that network.

      its your fault it took 2 months to diagnose a bandwidth problem & by the sound of it, it could happen again.

      Well it isn't really his fault it's his bosses fault in either one of two ways:
      1. For not sticking up for him when he told his boss how to secure the network to ensure they wouldn't get fined when they got audited. (I had this occur to me when I worked an IP law firm who had 4 workstation licenses and 60 workstations)
      2. For hiring someone who didn't come up with a better plan on how to ensure they wouldn't get fined when they got audited.

    10. Re:I'm a mere user and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Obviously you live in a fantasy world.

      Users are a huge problem to work with and half the time its not technical reasons, its political. Sure you could lock stuff completely down even under windows through group policies but when you get managers and CEOs complaining and have to start making exceptions it snowballs out of control easily, especially if you don't have somebody at the top of the food chain backing you up. When I started up at this company they didn't even have any clue how many licences they had for anything, they just had whatever installed on everything as needed. Our headquarters still doesn't have any clue and when leases come up they still run around and check every computer to find the ones with the right serials. Maybe if you worked in a real world enviroment you would understand that things are never that easy. Any time you lock things down you'll get somebody with clout whining about having an exception made, then another, then somebody whining for their whole department....

    11. Re:I'm a mere user and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of users claim that their PCs are more resilient than the central systems, but how resilient are they? In the two places I've worked that have run Windows networks, when the server has gone down productivity has stopped. Windows PCs depend on their servers and don't seem to last well without them.

      Before this I worked in one place with mainframes, and saw only one outage in my few years there. The whole office got the rest of the day off, but that was only one outage in a few years. I've also seen clusters of UNIX servers and not seen an outage in that system.

    12. Re:I'm a mere user and... by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1
      "Users are a huge problem to work with and half the time its not technical reasons, its political."

      Now you know why I don't do sysadmin work in the "real" world. I earned my sysadmin spurs in the US Navy some twenty plus years back and the politics were very clear. There were no exceptions, ever. I was not going to face a court martial for anyone, even the commanding officer, and my commanding officers from then on knew that as I made it clear from the outset. Especially since they would be right up there with me come judgement time. Any fines, as with any fines against a command (EPA, whatever) come out of their pocket as well so they had an interest here. Too bad that isn't true in the "real" (civilian) world. Then they would have a stake in the game.

      So, that's where I developed my policy of no exceptions, not even myself when it comes to licensing, software installation, etc. Even on my personal machines which, due to my consulting work for various firms (MS, etc.), are subject to audit at any time. Keeps ya honest, don'tcha know ;-).

      That kind of background also gets you real serious about information security as well. Anything under NDA here is kept on encrypted hard drives and almost always on a totally isolated machine, of which I have several.

      It really comes down to having published policies, total adherence to those policies, and no exceptions, not even for the CEO, CIO, or sysadmins. Oh yes, and regular audits and comprehensive monitoring. What with Sarbanes-Oxley, HIPAA, and all the other legislation and regulations that have come down the pike recently, I don't think you have a choice about having a strict systems policy or strict adherence and enforcement of same. The rules/environment have changed.

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    13. Re:I'm a mere user and... by dilvish_the_damned · · Score: 1

      Take those away, and I'm less than a happy camper.

      I dont pay you to be happy. Now get back to work playing with your fonts and browsing slashdot.

      --
      I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
    14. Re:I'm a mere user and... by HavokDevNull · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "is access to applications and a modicum of control over my PC, applications, and user experience."

      You my friend and people like you are the reason why the CTO and myself will do our best to demo this to upper management and executives. Along with cost savings analysis (bye bye Winblows licencing hell), security analysis (bye bye Winblows security hell) and help desk analysis (bye bye wanabe Winblows poweruser hell), etc..

      It's not the people who are completely new to computers that give me the hardest time, in fact I enjoy working with them and teaching them. It's the people who think they "Know" / "I'm computer literate" that give me the most headaches. For example; A user pluggin in laptop analog modem to a digital phone port thinking it will some how get access to the internal network, and yet it's IT's fault because they did not get a report sent out on time because of said lack of network connectivity, and they did not bother to tell us in the first place they had a problem to begin with! And yes this is the same person who said "I'm computer literate".

      So lets sum it up shall we? You know enough to really hose your OS and don't know enough or are too lazy to fix it yourself. People like you are the #1 reason why thin clients and a centralized server with only access to applications that you have permissions to work with to do your job only, will become a standardized setting in the future.

      --
      Sig
    15. Re:I'm a mere user and... by CagedBear · · Score: 1

      See, with this system, you can get full redundancy for the whole enterprise by simply building a 2-3 machine cluster... Everything is redundant, and I guarantee you I can build a system that will smoke your little Dell as far as reliability is concerned, and I can do it for the cost of maybe 10 standard PCs...

      Those must be expensive PCs.
      Let's say $2,000 a pop for the PC's x 10 = $20,000. An HP DL380 loaded with 36GB (small) hard drives and 4GB (also small) of RAM is around $10,000. So OK, you could squeeze out two machines. That doesn't include hosting fees ($$$) nor a SAN which you'll need if you are serious about clustering.

      I'm not saying you don't have a point. I think it's just exaggerated a little.

    16. Re:I'm a mere user and... by dfgchgfxrjtdhgh.jjhv · · Score: 1

      i'd hope you can persude the ceo to stop downloading 3d-screensavers & crap.

      if not & your ceo tells you to make the network as insecure as possible & not to pay any attention to the network at all, you arent a real admin, the ceo is.

      any 'normal' users dont need admin rights.

      --
      Web Design
    17. Re:I'm a mere user and... by DuckDodgers · · Score: 1

      I find it amusing that a decker-mage worked as a navy sysadmin. When you weren't setting up the black ICE, were you tossing manabolts around?

      More seriously, I think your blessed situation was probably too rare. I've only worked at two different places, but I've seen four different sysadmins face this exact problem. They wanted to lock everything down, but the upper management inclination to do whatever the heck they wanted prevented the sysadmins from being able to do their job.

      At the last place, the sysadmins took a lot of heat for being unable to protect the executives from their own mistakes. My current place of employment is much smaller, and the CEO and President are fine with periodic server and network problems in return for greater freedom.

    18. Re:I'm a mere user and... by forkazoo · · Score: 1
      I'm sorry - but something's amiss here.

      You proclaim you can make a more resilient setup with centralized, network-accessible services, but you were unable to find (and permanently fix) a one-PC bandwidth problem in two months?

      Now, I'm all for centralized services when it makes sense, but you haven't sold me in this case ;-)

      Nothing personal, that one just jumped out at me. Maybe it was the idea of watching baby birds hatching live...


      Well, the OP did say he uninstalled the RealPlayer repeatedly, so I don't think he had a problem finding the one PC. Unfortunately, in some organisations, IT has no teeth. Sometimes we just aren't allowed to really lay down an appropriate level of smack. It sounds like the OP was in such a situation, where he did exactly as much as he had the authority to do.

      Also, if you have some legacy apps, you may need to let users run as administrator. We still have about a dozen users that I *really* wish I could easily make non-administrators on their machines, but everything we have done to lock down some of the machines makes some of the crazy flaky apps we need to use to report to the state go nuts. Since it's a state system, we don't have any choice in the app that we use. I've been liking the idea of making a few specialty machines that *only* run that app, with the routers configured to only allow those machines to communicate with the state. Then, they can be standard users on their PC's, and admins on the specialty machines. But, the specialty machines couldn't be used to check email/browse the web, etc., making it less likely they would abuse the admin privileges.

      Unfortunately, I have no authority to do it. I have no authority to do most of the locking down that I want to. Admittedly, I'm not as well versed in Windows as I'd like to be, but the issues we have on our network aren't *just* because I'm incompetent. :)
    19. Re:I'm a mere user and... by pavera · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ok, this was an engineering firm, and unfortunately, because of some of the software that was REQUIRED for a customer contract, this lady had to have admin rights on her machine. Yeah, that's windows for you. Further, it didn't take me 2 months to diagnose the problem, it took about 30 minutes, but it had been happening for 2 months every year for the last 5 (since they hired her).

      Also, she was about 3rd in command at the company, way above me, or even the IT manager... One word from her and we'd both be fired.. So yeah we pretty much had to do what she said.

      As far as the SBA audit, I was hired about 1 month before it happened, and was in the process of gathering all the licensing info, and doing an audit of all of the IT assets (they had about 30 computers whose leases had expired, and they hadn't returned, it was a complete mess). In short, it wasn't my fault, and my bosses recognized that, and I actually got a raise and a promotion after the SBA mess because of the job I did cleaning it all up.

    20. Re:I'm a mere user and... by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1
      Oh, I agree. Having talked to many a sysadmin over the years, it is all too rare. And I still think it comes down to the fact that there were legal consequences to high command if I allowed any activities against Navy security and ADP regulations; something you won't see in the 'real' world, for now. It'll come as these new regulations start getting enforced with real fines.

      As for the mage part, well Mom's and anthropologist and I typed all here papers. I sort of got interested in the subject and given my habit of reading everything that isn't nailed shut (and I'll be looking for the claw hammer if it is ;-), I'm pretty well read on the subject. Interesting but pretty useless, IMNSHO, although I can also say that about a good part of my economics degree program as well.

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
  4. Interesting, but... by Alphax.au · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ...what can it do that ssh and an X11 session can't? And if you're being forced to use a browser to access your server, who says that you're not on a machine with keyloggers and screen capturing?

    1. Re:Interesting, but... by lowoddnumber · · Score: 5, Informative
      ...what can it do that ssh and an X11 session can't?

      Well, maybe if you did a little reading...


      Supported Protocols
      Microsoft RDP
      X11
      HTTP, HTTPS
      SSH
      Citrix Independent Computing Architecture (ICA)
      Telnet VT, American National Standards Institute (ANSI)
      TN3270E
      TN5250

      Supported Application Types
      Microsoft Windows
      Solaris, Linux, HP-UX, and AIX (character and graphical)
      IBM mainframe or AS/400
      HTML, Java

      Client Requirements
      Leading Java technology-enabled clients, including Microsoft Windows, Java Desktop System, Linux, and Mac OS X
      Sun Secure Global Desktop Native Client-enabled devices including thin clients, wireless PDAs, and pocket PCs
      Server Requirements

      Lightweight Directory Access Protocol (LDAP) v3
      Microsoft Active Directory
      RSA SecurID
      Network Information Service (NIS)
      Microsoft Windows Domains
      HTTP, HTTPS including Public Key Infrastructure (PKI)-based client certificates


      And if you're being forced to use a browser to access your server, who says that you're not on a machine with keyloggers and screen capturing?


      Well, if I were a Sun salesman, I'd say you don't use a crappy Internet Explorer/Outlook Express spyware machine, you use a nice little Sunray which is supposed to use less power than a nightlight - 4 watts - http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2006-04/sunf lash.20060412.4.xml


      I admit I work for Sun.
    2. Re:Interesting, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From TFA: "Sun Secure Global Desktop Software provides secure access to server-based applications running on Microsoft Windows, Solaris, Linux, HP-UX, AIX, Mainframe and Midrange systems from a wide variety of client platforms and devices."

      This is some cool stuff that Sun purchased a year or two ago and is using it to allow customers a way out of existing legacy hardware/software. I haven't used it, but it seems the potential over a Sun Ray is quite awesome (smartcards, local USB devices, single terminal to UNIX and Windows, etc.).

    3. Re:Interesting, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I admit I don't work for Sun, and as you should have guessed, I don't give a crap. Cheers.

    4. Re:Interesting, but... by ischorr · · Score: 1

      X11 is a fairly chatty, single-threaded protocol and not particularly optimized for low-latency links. Have you ever tried to run X11 apps over a WAN? VPN connection from home? Etc? Especially if your Window Manager is not something extremely bare-bones and your app windows contain more than a few widgets?

      It's incredibly painful to use, unfortunately. There are much worse protocols as well, but something like ICA, RDP, or even VNC (with extensions like those included with UltraVNC) are much better suited.

    5. Re:Interesting, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only usinge Less power than a nightlight when no one is using it and it fell asleep in power saving mode. Otherwise the thing uses around 30 watts, which is still better than most computers.

  5. Wow Its X11 by I+kan+Spl · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Wow...

    They just invented something really new that nobody else could have ever thought of ...

    errrr...

    X11 forwarding anyone?

    --
    My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
    1. Re:Wow Its X11 by Allnighterking · · Score: 1

      In a normal 1 person 2 boxes scenario you are correct there isn't a whole lot of difference. However if you move beyond this into a situation where you want to scale up and have a central pivot delivering to multiple persons then you run into some heavy I/O problems. X is too CPU intensive in modern form and too bandwidth hungry as well. It just won't scale.

      There are other problems as well. Say for example I want to open Konqueror as a file manager on 3 boxes (Mine and two others) at the same time. You run into problems because each additional instance beyond the first is really nothing more than the first one with extra windows either completely or in part. This is especially problematic when they are different versions.

      If you have every tried to run an SSH session with X11 over a long distance (say from California to Chicago) you really can begin to feel just how much of a snail this can be.

      Much easier is something like VNC. (Thank you Olivetti) It's able to overcome the bandwidth/hardware/multiple login problems of X however it too suffers eventually from bandwidth starvation. But. It's at worst usable.

      --

      I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.

    2. Re:Wow Its X11 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, this almost looks like an extension of www.desktop.com, which in a way was ahead of its time. Java wasn't quite there yet, the Pentium 3 just came out and people were really just starting to get broadband in 1999 and 2000. It was slow, but an interesting idea.

    3. Re:Wow Its X11 by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      They just invented something really new that nobody else could have ever thought of ...errrr... X11 forwarding anyone?

      Swooosh! That was the sound of this technology's purpose whizzing over your head. X11 is great, but has scaling issues and is limited to X11 applications and clients that have X11 support. This is supposedly more scalable, with better bandwidth usage. It has a client for most every OS you want to use, including Windows and OS X. It includes authentication and monitoring tools using LDAP, AD, or a few others. You can run Java apps, Web/HTML apps, X11 forwarded apps from Solaris, Linux, and HP-UX, Windows apps via RDP, etc.

      Looking to move away from expensive, unreliable, Worm-ridden Windows PCs? Try installing a central set of redundant servers and then rolling out this client to all your machines. You can buy cheap thin clients and users will have all the apps they need. You can keep your macs in the art and marketing departments and they will still be able to access the same apps. You can convert your PC labs to linux, and they will still be able to run the same apps. Some workstation still needs Windows for a one-off application or to control special hardware, no problem, it can still run all the standard apps.

      This looks like a well thought out way to pipe applications of all sorts to all sorts of workstations and make the platform upon which you are running them much less important. It makes sense to me and it will help Sun sell thin-clients and big, redundant servers.

  6. First question..... by Allnighterking · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I wonder if it works. Seeing as how it was down faster than somewhere around the second post could be written. So much for Robust. One Monday morning 9am e-mail check would bring your entire company to it's knees.

    Can this kind of application of an OS/System work. Heck Yes! It works and it's needed. However it will always fail as long as they keep trying to put all the eggs in one software basket so to speak. Stop with "one box that does it all. Get into the idea of, "this box does this, that box does that, and you can see it all from that box over there."

    We need to move from the application having access to the OS, to the OS having access to the application. Once OS/data/application are void of their death grip on each other some really amazing things can begin to happen.

    --

    I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.

    1. Re:First question..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and now you can glue the boxes together with Jerrata Backbone(tm).

    2. Re:First question..... by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      I wonder if it works.

      Of course it works. I'm a Sun diehard and I've been using the Global Desktop since version 1.0. It was a bit rough then because I was, downloading files to run on my computer, and that was new, but they made 2.0 better. 2.0 added completed downloads of files. Then 3.0, and now 4.2, I'm ecstatic.

      No, wait. I was using NFS, scp, and http downloads. Not Sun's Global Desktop.

      Now, I'm confused. What does this give me?

    3. Re:First question..... by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1
      I wonder if it works. Seeing as how it was down faster than somewhere around the second post could be written. So much for Robust. One Monday morning 9am e-mail check would bring your entire company to it's knees.
      I think there's a difference between your company's 500 employees and millions of pr0n^H^H^H^Hknowledge hungry geeks the world over hammering your machine to death.

      I'd give it the benefit of the doubt until I see it fail in a real-life usage scenario, as this most certainly is not.

      And now that I think of it, one 9am email check could currently bring your company to it's knees, if there's a single email in a single inbox with "I love you!" (no...that's already taken...) "I wanna do you!" as the subject line.
      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    4. Re:First question..... by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1

      Actually it does work and fairly nicely here which was a surprise. Why a surprise? Well, the best link I can get is 31Kbps (yes, bits) and I usually only get 28Kbps and no DSL or cable in sight here. I was rather impressed.

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
  7. SGD isTarantella by poopie · · Score: 5, Informative

    For those of you who wondered... this isn't new, just a new name. I'll never understand why their marketing chose to change the name to something nobody knew. Perhaps trying to re-launch it?

    Sun has actually done a good job of fixing a lot of java bugs since they acquired Tarantella.

    For those of you who don't know about how SGD/Tarantella work, it's a session server/screen scraper combo that allow you to have access to Windows and Linux apps or entire desktops that can be served from arrays of application servers.

    It uses a protocol called AIP that adapts to the available bandwidth and can scale down well for low bandwidth links.

    The good things about SGD are:
    - Transportable workspaces
    - great for providing VERY LOW bandwidth links to console-based apps
    - enterprise authentication
    - ability to create and serve applications based on centrally managed user and application groupings
    - ability to manage many different OS sessions and mix of sessions from OSes in a single login session
    - pass-through printing to local printer
    - ability to connect local hard drive to remote systems
    - Client is trivial to install for users
    - a rich html application page can be created that can serve many of the requirements for previously locally installed apps
    - works very well for deployments that many many users to a few application set profiles that can load balance between arrays of application servers

    The bad things about SGD are:
    - it's a 3-tier architecture and if/when you overload the server or hit an OS bug and need to restart it, UNIX users lose x-sessions
    - not ideal for mapping of many users to unique resources where sessions are very long lived
    - some java 2d and 3d stuff takes up a lot of bandwidth

    It's worth checking out. Some users prefer vnc or NX, but SGD really is an enterprise solution - not just a machine a to machine b tool for a single user.

    1. Re:SGD isTarantella by miffo.swe · · Score: 1

      I would call Nomachine NX an enterprise solution if any.

      --
      HTTP/1.1 400
  8. They just won't give up by guacamole · · Score: 1

    This looks like yet another software product or strategy coming from Sun that's meant to put thin clients on everyone's desktop and to put all applications on the (Sun Microsystems, of course) server..

    1. Re:They just won't give up by sol_geek77 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How is this any different then what Google is doing (aside from being the "benevolent and all holy" Goggle versus the "almost as evil as Microsoft" Sun)? The client should never matter when running the application and if you look here http://www.sun.com/download/products.xml?id=433240 e1 you can get the client application for just about anything including dumb terminals and handheld devices.

      And stating that Sun is trying to put all applications on Sun systems is a bunch of crap. The design of the product is to have a gateway to all vendors applications. So you continue to run your existing applications and connect to them from the gateway, and no it doesn't have to be Solaris http://www.sun.com/download/products.xml?id=43321d b9

    2. Re:They just won't give up by mrawl · · Score: 1

      Ok dude, you now run the IT center. You have 25000 remote-enabled users with different levels of skill, patience, etc. How would you propose to support them?

    3. Re:They just won't give up by Spruitje · · Score: 1


      Ok dude, you now run the IT center. You have 25000 remote-enabled users with different levels of skill, patience, etc. How would you propose to support them?


      A lot easier than 25000 users on stand-alone PC's scattered around the country.
      You don't have to upgrade 25000 individual pc's anymore.
      Second, due to the fact that the applications aren't running localy you have only a couple of machines doing all the work.
      So, upgrading and fixing things is a lot easier.
      There are a lot of good examples of companies who have thin clients on the work floor and doing client/server stuff.
      They have lower downtimes and when a thin client is down you just replace it with another machine.
      No on location support anymore.
      Everything can be done from one location.

    4. Re:They just won't give up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this any different then what Google is doing[?]

      Google are successful?

      And stating that Sun is trying to put all applications on Sun systems is a bunch of crap.

      Yes, because Sun wouldn't gain anything if such a market shift occured.

    5. Re:They just won't give up by Octorian · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, over the past several yeas, Sun has gotten REALLY GOOD at the whole thin client thing. A modern Sun Ray setup bears no resemblance to the terminals of old, or even X terminals. They're essentially stateless devices you just "plug in", and everything runs off the server. When I say "everything", I even mean your whole session and screen contents (something X terminals and serial terminals don't do as nicely). You can even detach and re-attach (i.e. hot-desking) your session between thin clients. (I equate it to "VNC in a box, that doesn't suck")

      Heck, the UI performance is even good enough that you *can* use it comfortably as a primary desktop, for 2D stuff.

      But guess what? There's more!

      These things also support audio (with hot-desking, so you're mp3s are still playing in the background and hit the speakers of the next thin client when you re-attach your session). These things also support USB peripherals as well! (a couple of days ago, I plugged my SD card reader into one to get some photos from my digital camera... normally I have one hooked to a USBRS-232 box for some embedded stuff I do)

      Yes, I actually have a home installation of the Sun Ray 150 model, and I've been REALLY happy with it. I get a persistant session not tied to a portable device (something not do-able with laptops, unless thinking of the Tadpole COMET15 SunRay laptop), and essentially computer access in every room. It rocks!

  9. Windows applications too? by DuncanE · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seems to only be available for download for Linux and Solaris, but the features list indicates that it can run Windows applications. Any ideas how they do this?

    1. Re:Windows applications too? by poopie · · Score: 2, Informative

      SGD proxies RDP sessions from Windows servers, or it can use Citrix.

    2. Re:Windows applications too? by beevan_jedi · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, SGD translates native display protocols like RDP, X11, ICA etc. into AIP, so it's not just dumb proxying.

    3. Re:Windows applications too? by vhogemann · · Score: 1

      Probably the same way NX does.

      It tunnels VNC or RDP connections, adding it's own compression to these protocols, this way you connect to the NX/SGD server on an specific port, and then it redirects your connection to the VNC/RDP server machine.

      But I guess you get better performance from X11 based applications, because X can do caching of bitmaps, drawing primitives, and a lot of other smart things that VNC and RDP can't.

      --
      ---- You know how some doctors have the Messiah complex - they need to save the world? You've got the "Rubik's" complex
    4. Re:Windows applications too? by DuncanE · · Score: 1

      So does this mean they can distribute/publish just one application... say Outlook or a custom GUI app ... or does the windows applications require a full terminal services desktop? (And hence why wouldnt I just use terminal services directly)

    5. Re:Windows applications too? by beevan_jedi · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can publish individual applications in a rootless/seamless windows mode. There are some other enhancements to RDP too.

  10. Re:Wow Its X11 - remoted X11 has limitations by poopie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Try remoting some chatty X11 apps across a 100 millisecond link.

    Then introduce periodic link failures that make remoted X apps go "pop!"

    Then constrain an entire office down to a few mbps of shared WAN bandwidth

    Then introduce IP phones that suck up all the "extra" bandwidth.

  11. Name? by IceFoot · · Score: 1

    "Sun's Global Desktop Released"

    Will they name it "Warming"?

  12. Cool, it's MCSE-ready! by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Once you login, you can launch an instance of Solitaire from within your remote webtop. I expect the MS-fanbois to jump all over this one even though it comes from Sun...

    --
    "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    1. Re:Cool, it's MCSE-ready! by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1

      Actually this 'fanbois' perfers Mahjonng ;-).

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
  13. Page cannot be displayed? by BlueScreenOfTOM · · Score: 1

    Hmm, when I click on it, I get Page cannot be displayed. I guess it couldn't handle getting /.ed. I'm not incredibly surprised, nor do I find this unusual, however I find I give a lot of respect to sites that actually still run when I click on the link posted in the /. article. I don't mean that sarcastically, the word slashdotted was coined for a reason.

    I'll try again tomorrow when it's done being p0wned by bored folks like myself.

  14. Ahurm by Venim · · Score: 0

    XDMCP works fine for me..

  15. Collection of blog posts... by bout · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here are some archived Sun employee blog posts about SGD (aka Tarantella, aka Secure Global Desktop).

    -Eric Boutilier

  16. Can you say "Tarantella"? by MynaBird · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Is everyone forgetting that Sun Microsystems bought Tarantella last July? See: http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2005-07/sunf lash.20050713.1.html This is the productization of that acquisition, at least it looks that way. Tarantella, um....Sun, has an excellent product. Try it, you might like it!

  17. Fixed submission text... by stinkbomb · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Sun has also set up a test server for slashdot to melt." Fixed that last sentence for you.

  18. Yes... Slashdotted!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From Sun:

    well, it was the demonstration server until it got mentioned on Slashdot - now it's only demonstrating how we didn't size it with this sort of load in mind.

    Probably best to check back in in a couple of days - it should be available again...

  19. "we did not size it with this load in mind" by master_p · · Score: 1

    I do not understand them. Really. They are Sun, and they publish something "revolutionary" on the internet. Did they expect that \. would not learn about it? these days when a big player like Sun or Microsoft coughs, the sound is instantly heard in the 4 corners of the Earth, thanks to the internet. And Sun is supposed to be network-centric and network-aware right from the start (unlike Microsoft that initially ignored the network).

    1. Re:"we did not size it with this load in mind" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give me a break. Do you know how much they'd have to spend to run an application server with capacity for a few tens of thousands of concurrent sessions?

      Millions, that's how much. This is not serving HTML or PHP, this is serving full blown virtual desktop sessions. You can't just load a few thousand hundred-megabyte sessions on a cheap PC you know.

      When the slashdot effect dies down, they'll have enough capacity for normal demonstrations. That's all they care about about. Would you dedicate millions of dollars of hardware and manpower just to make slashdotters happy? Of course not.

      Check back in a while, it's bound to be back up, doing what it was implemented for - demonstrations for interested people and potential licensors, not just a few thousand bored slashdotters clicking whatever just for the hell of it.

    2. Re:"we did not size it with this load in mind" by master_p · · Score: 1

      Why not? after all, they are Sun. How are they going to persuade their clients? if they did not care about thousands, even millions of concurrent users, why did they posted it live on the internet? think about it.

      They could have put a list of screenshots along with the review instead of a live product, if average Joe was not meant to have access. And they could have put up a request scheme so as that an account was opened, in order to make only serious customers use the service.

      The public opening of such a technology that is not ready to accept millions of sessions does not make sense.

    3. Re:"we did not size it with this load in mind" by jc42 · · Score: 1

      The public opening of such a technology that is not ready to accept millions of sessions does not make sense.

      Sure, it does. /. isn't their typical customer. Most places will have only a handful of people who have any clue as to what this is all about. The managers that their sales people talk to aren't about to waste time testing it themselves; they'll assign it to one or two IT people, who will try it out and write a report.

      They might get a few more people from a report like this at yahoo or msn, but there, most people's reaction would basically be "It's from Sun? Who cares? Tell me about it when Microsoft has it." /. is one of a very small number of fora where you'd get a significant number of techies who would read and decide to try it out. They probably just got hit by a thousand times more responses than they've gotten from any previous PR attempt. And it'll probably never happen again. Well, at least not until the /. dup of this story in a week or two.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    4. Re:"we did not size it with this load in mind" by master_p · · Score: 1

      No. Slashdot certainly is their typical customer, because the slashdot crowd consists mainly of computer-related people, many of them being system administrators, who can spread the news to various companies.

    5. Re:"we did not size it with this load in mind" by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      Slashdot is not a community of purchasing power people. End of story. Recommendations sure, but to serve up that load for a well connected computer crowd (and even that can be debated), and its a risk on investment, which isn't good business.

      To the grandparent who said, "But its Sun!," I giggle.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    6. Re:"we did not size it with this load in mind" by master_p · · Score: 1

      Slashdot is not a community of purchasing power people, but it is a community of people that will be asked by purchasing power people if Sun's proposition is a good one. End of story, indeed.

      As I have said above, they shouldn't opt for serving Slashdot, but protect themselves from Slashdot by providing an open online review and a registration scheme for the real thing; and all that in order to protect their image.

  20. great error msg by revxul · · Score: 3, Funny

    They get my vote for best Slashdot Effect message.

    --
    Truth, Just Us, And Hatred For All Mankind!
  21. aww the poor server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Welcome to the Sun Secure Global Desktop demonstration server ... well, it was the demonstration server until it got mentioned on Slashdot - now it's only demonstrating how we didn't size it with this sort of load in mind.

    Probably best to check back in in a couple of days - it should be available again...

    1. Re:aww the poor server by rubeon · · Score: 1

      And slashdot reaffirms itself as an obnoxious Internet neighbor, stomping all over other people's servers.

  22. Slashdotted already... by Timex · · Score: 1
    At least Sun has a sense of humor about it:

    Welcome to the Sun Secure Global Desktop demonstration server ... well, it was the demonstration server until it got mentioned on Slashdot - now it's only demonstrating how we didn't size it with this sort of load in mind.

    Probably best to check back in in a couple of days - it should be available again...


    I'll look at it next week, if I remember to. :)
    --
    When politicians are involved, everyone loses.
  23. PWNED??? by Danzigism · · Score: 1
    Welcome to the Sun Secure Global Desktop demonstration server ... well, it was the demonstration server until it got mentioned on Slashdot - now it's only demonstrating how we didn't size it with this sort of load in mind. Probably best to check back in in a couple of days - it should be available again...

    see what we can do if we just work together???????

    --
    *plays the Apogee theme song music*
  24. Just released?? by RedOregon · · Score: 1

    Just released? WTF? I've been working with 4.2 since late February/early March?

    --
    Skivvy Niner? Email me!
    HEY! Look left just ONE MORE TIME!
    1. Re:Just released?? by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1

      I know, this is /. so what do you expect. Accuracy? Sheesh. I've been playing with it for a bit now as well. I'll probably never use it myself, but I have some businesses in the region that might be highly interested.

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    2. Re:Just released?? by RedOregon · · Score: 1

      Just found this at http://www.tarantella.com/

                09.28.05 Sun Secure Global Desktop Software 4.2 is now available for download

      --
      Skivvy Niner? Email me!
      HEY! Look left just ONE MORE TIME!
  25. In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also released was the Global Warming Desktop, which runs exclusively Athlon Thunderbirds.

  26. Great. by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1
    Oh wait, their server is already down.
    Great. Now look what you've done. You blew up the sun. Good going.
    --
    "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  27. Boom by MrCopilot · · Score: 1
    Welcome to the Sun Secure Global Desktop demonstration server

    ... well, it was the demonstration server until it got mentioned on Slashdot - now it's only demonstrating how we didn't size it with this sort of load in mind.

    Probably best to check back in in a couple of days - it should be available again...

    --
    OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
  28. Is this Citrix by Sun? by LazloToth · · Score: 1

    Hmmm . . . not sure I'm getting the whole picture. Sounds like Citrix Presentation Server, with the twist that it can deliver apps simultaneously from multiple OS platforms. Citrix on steroids I guess.

    --


    It's only funny until someone gets hurt. Then, it's hilarious.
  29. BSD Community Left Out Again by taylor_venable · · Score: 1

    Why is it that Sun never offers anything for BSD? The FreeBSD community only weeks ago finally got access to official Java binaries, after years of tweaking and weedling from the FreeBSD Foundation. Could it be that Sun has forgotten their heritage, that the only reason they exist is because of BSD Unix? Such arrogance towards the BSD community from a company founded by one of the original BSD developers is astonishing and shameful.