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Dell Ships Gaming Systems Sans Bloat
An anonymous reader writes "Dell has followed up and put their money where their mouth is after HardOCP panned them last year for selling 'gaming systems' that you could not even install some popular 3D games on due to the bloatware on the system. You can now get clean installs on some XPS Dell systems. Dell is running a 'You Spoke, We Listened,' header on their site." From the article: "It seems that Dell has taken our criticism (and our readers as well) to heart and has made the much sought after move to offer select XPS systems with "limited" pre-installed software. We phoned a Dell sales representative late Monday, and he confirmed that the installation is completely clean, except for the included anti-virus program. As explained to us by Dell, There is no AOL installation, no "media jukebox", and no ISP offers to weigh the supplied operating system down."
There bloatware is one of the reasons I hate to recommend dell to people.
"If you have legs and are flammable, you are never blocking a fire exit." -- Mitch Hedberg
And how much more do the systems cost to get Dell to not include that crapware?
This guy's the limit!
Can I buy a system without paying the $100 XP tax, considering I already own a legitimate copy of windows?
My number one grip with buying a prebuilt system versus building my own (cost aside) is that they come with so much crap on them. When i bought my gateway laptop, it took in between 3 and 5 minutes to boot up when it was new. After i cleaned all the misc crap off of it that i'll never use, it took about 45 seconds or less. I vote that pc manufacturers give you the very basic installation and then give you a DVD that has everything else on it. You stick it in and it gives you a nice menued list of things you may want to install.
A person who just spent 1500 bucks on a new laptop isn't going to be wowed when their new laptop is taking longer to boot than their old one...
Or did Zonk remove it because the vocal morons would call it an ad?
but i think it may finally be time for me to purchase a laptop from dell. EEK!
i just want something that can play half-life 2 at > 60 FPS. any thoughts?
Now if they could do that for ALL of their systems, I would consider buying from them!
Ok seriously if you building a high end system I agree. But if your building a system for your mom you simply can't beat some of their deals. I've given up building and selling low end systems to family and coworkers. Its just not possible to compete.
Am I wrong to assume that computer sale hasn't been like this since the start in the 90s?
Why would _anyone_ want all the crap preinstalled? I really wish they would offer all their machines without the bloated rubbish that no-one wants. I had to spend ages getting rid of it all for my in-laws.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Of course they are going to say they listened to the public, but it probably came from Mr dell having a grey alien over his shoulder now whispering things about customer satisfaction and doing the right thing.
Remember, they were shoving this crap down our necks for years then all of a sudden just mere weeks after buying Alienware we see this...
liqbase
The thing I hate about Dell is that if you want something with a non-integrated video card, then you have to pay over $1000 CDN. I find that this is unacceptable. I can get a $500 machine from my local computer retailer with a not-too-bad AGP video card. Why can't Dell provide this?
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Considering that the Symantec (specifically Norton) products preinstalled on my E1705 were the worst behaving (and most difficult to remove - in fact I couldn't completely and cleanly remove them) components of Dell's preinstall, the fact that they are leaving an antivirus in their preinstall doesn't really help much. Antivirus programs are notorious for causing performance problems.
Wonderful how Dell is charging you more to offer less. The hardware in the XPS M1710 isn't nearly good enough to justify the 1.5-2x price difference between a similar E1705 configuration (with the only difference being an Nvidia 7800GT vs. 7900GTX).
A clean E1705 would've been WONDERFUL.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
It's nice to see a big computer vendor finally listening to it's customers. It really peeves me and a lot of others when companies sit back, take in all your money and just sit idly by in their boardrooms crunching numbers on how to make even more profits. Excellent move by Dell, and hopefully this sparks other companies to follow suit. :)
From TFA: We at [H] are very impressed by this operating system option. It is truly a feature that many gamers and power users will welcome with open arms.
Something is really getting messed up in the computer market last few years when the lack of software is the hottest and most welcomed feature from the majority of computer users (adware, spyware, rootkits, bloatware, offers, crap on top of crap on top of crap...).
Oh and you gotta love when they screw up and start running "you spoke, we listened" ads. Sort of "we're your best darling from now on"...
I've seen too many "you spoke, we listened" ads from various hardware and software companies the last 2 years. Sometimes they gotta run the campaign several times in case they screw up after their screw up.
In the good old times it didn't take one or two public releases of a product, mass outcry, very poor sales, or an avalanche of lawsuits to make a company "listen". Apparently times have changed.
I have just purchased a laptop from Dell (Inspiron 1300) and I like the feel of the laptop, expecially since it's my first laptop I've ever purchased. It took me about 3 hours to remove the bloatware off of the system. My friends mom also bought the same model because she liked the looks and feel of my laptop, also 3 hours for bloatware. I don't mind Dell because you can customize what you wantin a PC. For price to quality comparison I believe it's a good combination. Now if they leave the bloatware off of all of their systems it would probably be the best thing they could ever do.
With these gamer systems, Dell's margin's are high enough tha they don't need this subsidy; but for the most part, noone in their right mind (even Dell) would be paying Redmond taxes if someone else weren't paying them to do so.
That's the real reason Windows can never get serious about combatting spyware -- OEM support for windows depends entirely on the ability to hide deceptive spyware on the systems.
I don't see why he's being moderated as a flamebait. The bloatware is one of the reasons Dell can offer PCs at the prices they do! Without the bloatware, how much does the price go up? It's similar to the business model for those "free" PCs that displayed ads while you used it: the cost of the system is offset by the money paid to the PC distributor to load the software onto the system. Mod parent Insightful or Interesting, but not Flamebait.
Isn't all that pre-installed crap the reason that computers are as cheap as they are? I say they should go ahead and shovel it on; I'm going to do a fresh install anyway.
Agreed. I'd happily buy my mom or other relative a Dell. It's like "fire and forget."
But, these are gaming machines. Now, I could have a slanted opinion of computer gamers: Namely, most of my friends and I are gamers and we build our own... of course we're almost all Engineers (EEs, CEs and SEs). However, when I think of a gamer obtaining a new system, I think of them piecing the thing together off of newegg or mwave or (for the brave) pricewatch. Why do we do this? We're finicky. Some of us want supreme sound cards. Most want extremely high-end video cards. Also, we're performance junkies. Most in my group aren't over-clockers but I've seen plenty of gamers that are. I know a decent amount of people that before starting up [current game that's being obsessed over] will at least bring up the task manager (games implies windows) and close all non-needed processes before continuing.
Also, as a whole, most of my friends are pretty damn cheap. We want the most bang for our buck... and that's never going to be Dell.
So does that mean Dell is catching up with the Whitebox (blackbox) makers? Considering most of us making custom systems don't do that for obvious reasons. I know that personally, if you buy a system you should be able to do what you want with it without hinderance of any kind. You don't buy a computer from me so I can advertise to you.
But then how else do you think Dell (or every other OEM) makes computers cheaper? I could build you a $300 computer too if I got paid $200 to put advertising all over it. But then I don't put a 100% markup on almost all "upgrades" either.
The customer that buys an XPS is usually knowledgable enough to remove that crap on their own. The average person on the street buys the major cheap price point - the Dimension desktop. Now.. if you tell me Dell is offering a Dimension series with no extra installs on it - you'd have my attention.
{} ------ When I think of a good sig, I'll put it here
I got a Dell. Took it out of the box, popped in my copy of windows. Booted to the disk, formated, installed Windows and linux, and was done.
Just include the original XP cd so we can do a fresh install. Thank you!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That's weird - I just specced a mid-range system for a friend (lowest of the low-end 64-bit system) and squeezed in under Dell's discounted price for a comparable system by almost $150. If he had bought a Dell and refused the 24-month internet subscription and other gotchas, he would have paid $250 or more over the price of the NewEgg system I specced. Just for reference, it was almost identical to the Ultimate Budget Box that Ars Technica publishes regularly.
My friend added a few bells and whistles where he wanted more power (a little more RAM, a better CPU) and managed to beat a comparable Dell system in price. Because he's switching from Win2K to WinXP, he had to buy the OS, but it was still cheaper overall.
Most people need the bloat. Gamers tend to also be computer nerds, and therefor can handle setting up their machine themselves. But average folks don't want to and most likely can't get their machine set up with all the software they need. How many computer users would know they even had a DVD burner unless the software was waiting for them on their desktop when they turned it on for the first time? How would people buying their first computer get online if ISPs weren't preinstalled? This is obviously a good move by Dell, but only as an option. Most people would be too confused if there was no bloat.
"Why don't they just ..... blah ....?" we ask ourselves constantly. In some cases, there are contracts with hardware suppliers, advertisers, marketing teams, delivery and supply chains, retail outlets, and other behind-the-scenes business partners that must be, at the very least, scanned carefully by Dell's legal staff. More often than not, a renegotiation is necessary to change business practices that may impact those contracted partners. This takes time. And when the negotiations stall, there's no option but to wait it out.
So Dell is going the right thing, and the response here is almost universally negative. Not about the fact that they're doing the right thing by their customers, but that they even had to because they did the wrong thing first. Well I'll tell you what. It's rare that a business "has it right" out of the gate and never looks back. Google is one of those rare companies that has mostly pulled this off. Few businesses do it. They must learn from the market, and shape and mold their business model to maximize profit. Profits are maximized by providing the most people with what they want to buy at a price they'll pay. When the sentiments or demographic composition of that group changes, the company must adjust. Dell has become very successful while bundling garbage on their machines. Clearly the lost revenue from boycotting Slashdotters was made up for by whatever business arrangements they had with AOL and what not. As much as it may pain you to hear it, Slashdot readers make up a tiny minority of the nation's consumer population, and the portion we do make up is a weird niche that is largely disliked by mainstream retailers and traditional businesses.
So, frankly, there's been no reason to pander to the nitpicky anal retentive whims of a bunch of dorks. Until now.
"I have never won a debate with an ignorant person." -Ali ibn Abi Talib
You give someone a choice between 5 ISPs and they then ask their current ISP, "What do I do now?" Where I live, AOL and the other major national ISPs don't provide local access numbers - so local ISPs like where I work, foot all the questions on a daily basis. Same goes for offering more than one media player, or whatever on a PC. Offer one - any more than that confuses the man on the street too much. Trust me on that one.
{} ------ When I think of a good sig, I'll put it here
Okay, where's my AMD X2 Processor? .
.
.
.
I'm waiting...
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
So where's my automatic anti-bloatware remover?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
That's not so weird. He has you to pick, purchase, assemble the system and provide support. You should account for your billable hours and when the system is done and your friend is happy with his new computer only then can you calculate the cost to "him".
I think you will find that by the time he's playing games you probably sucked up the difference in price, and then some, with your labor.
Exactly, labor and the price of XP makes the difference here moot. Of course as I stated this is especially true for low end systems. You can get a decent low end system WITH 17 flat panel for 350 now. $100 labor (what I charge minimum to build a system (meaning a prebuild barebones and a few extras) and install an OS) plus XP home $81 would be half your cost. Leaving you $169 to buy the parts..
Don't believe me on $350 quote. Check out
the newest deal on slickdeals.net
Just out of curiosity: where do you live?
I recently purchased a pretty decent Dell XPS. It didn't have much on it. I needed to unintall a couple of things that I didn't like, but it was otherwise clean; soundcard software, dvd software, the usual MS crap you find on an xp machine (outlook, messenger...), but nothing much else. I was surprised.
Changed my mind completely about a new system I was planning to buy. No dual cores for me, thank you. I'll either grab an FX-57 when AM2 comes out and drops the DDR1 systems' prices, or I'll wait until the end of the year, see if Conroe lives up to the hype and how Vista affects either system.
OEM support for windows depends entirely on the ability to hide deceptive spyware on the systems
Clearly this is an area where Linux to match or exceed Windows in order to capture the desktop.
The scary part is that I am not quite sure if I was kidding or not.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
I recently bought a Dell XPS140 and I was having problems with it (turned out to be my fault actually). The funny thing is that the first thing that Dell support did when I called them was to take control of the system over the network and download a program called C-Cleaner (guess what C stands for). This program then went and delete most of the programs that came preinstalled. I wonder if it is policy at all or just a support techie who got sick of dealing with it all the time.