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Self-Serve Car Rental
abb_road writes "Claiming 'Web2.0 values meet Brick and Mortar,' BusinessWeek is reporting on an entirely self service car rental company. Zipcar customers make all reservations online or using a cell phone, then use a card-key to pick up their car from the parking garage--no attendants needed. According to the article, one of the other important attractions of the system is transparency; the reservations system allows you to see exactly what cars in the area will be available at what times, and then reserve or adjust your plans accordingly. From the article: 'If the nearest Mini convertible is booked until 3 p.m., the customer might postpone plans by an hour to get it -- or decide the Mazda with a sunroof on another lot will do.'"
The idea sounds cool, but you'd have to have plenty security guards in something as 'auto'mated as that. Plus, what if someone hacked into the server and decided to "rent" a bunch of nice cars?
We have this in the Netherlands since 1995. I've used it for years. You make reservations through the Internet or phone, and enter the car with your swipe card.
This Evaluation of ZipCar 8.0 has expired. Please purchase the full version. Press your horn to continue.
Wouldn't it be cool if they took it a step further and copied Blockbuster's "No Late Fees" policy? ^^
...who's going to to try to press you to pay an extra $20/day for the rip-off supplemental insurance on this plan?
Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
Where've you been?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Though in the early days, you were given a key to open a box at the parking space, which in turn contained the car keys. Nowadays, you are handed out a near-range wireless SmartCard which you use to open the car and activate it (there's some in-car computer). This new system has been implemented at around 2001. And it's nation-wide. (For the curious, it's www.mobility.ch).
Windows is like decaf - it tastes like the real thing, but it won't get you through the day.
While a fine idea, it's not exactly new. Zipcars have been around for a while. We couldn't have gotten our 144lb TV home otherwise. If you don't need a car everyday, it works out really well. Especially as many employers will subsidize the yearly fee. I think my girlfriend pays $25.00 a year (word to the wise: it's even cheaper if you mooch off your girlfriend)
Although to be fair, it is pretty sci-fi. It's neat to walk up to a car in the middle of a parking lot, wave your wallet over the windshield and climb in.
come for the naked robots, stay for the zombies
There's also http://www.flexcar.com/
"Welcome to a new era in personal transportation. It's called carsharing. You share access to hundreds of Flexcar vehicles, often within a five-minute walk of your home or work. You reserve a car online or by phone, you drive - to a meeting, to run errands, or to hit the lumber yard - and you return, all for one hourly rate that covers gas, insurance and unlimited miles. All you pay for is the drive. How simple and smart is that? Plus, Flexcar is convenient, affordable, reliable, and great for the planet."
I've had Zipcar / Flexcar / Stolencar for years!
But... now it has Javascript!
If you live elsewhere, you're screwed, even if the city you live in is very large and well known. It's been around for 6 years and this is all there is? They're asleep if they think people wouldn't be interested in places like St. Louis that have crappy mass transit systems (I'm still waiting for the light rail line to open near me so I can get to work by biking to the station).
i am a soviet space shuttle
For more info, see the Wikipedia page on Zipcar.
Unknown host pong.
I can't speak for ZipCar, but I've been using City Car Share for about three years now. It's really smooth - there's a garage a couple blocks from my place, it costs $10 a month to be a member, renting a car is about $4 per hour and $0.4 per mile. This includes everything - gas, insurance, all.
/. ) is real far behind.
If you return the car late you get charged a pretty hefty late fee. You ca extend a reservation over the phone, provided that no-one else has reserved that car after you already. If you're running late and notify the office, you get a smaller late fee than you would have if you were just "missing".
It's cost effective if you just need a car for a couple hours, or an evening. If you need it for a day or more, go to a car rental place.
That article (if the summary is correct, which is a dangerous assumption to make on
Zipcar is great in concept until you have to deal with the actual company. They have a couple of limited formulas in play as to how to attain profitability, and fines definitely factor in there. Not report cat hair you didn't notice on the back seat? Surprise, you get a huge cleaning bill and if you dare to question, your account is yanked. Hopefully these types of services will be regulated somewhere down the road.
To me it's worth the money I would have spent on a cab to have them pick me up.
Why not just go to enterprise pay $20-30?
I like that they wash the car, do an inspection and pick you up for free. Also if I'm late, I just get charged a new rate.
Here the company is a consumers' co-operative too, so you get low rates and get any profits back as rebates.
Zipcar is popular in my neighborhood in Boston (parking is rare and expensive) and useful for those quick trips to the grocery store, although it's tough to get any trip done in only 1 hour, so the minimum trip cost is probably close to $20.
It is *much* more expensive than even Hertz if you are going to take a long trip: the first 100 miles are free, but the per-mile charge thereafter is very high.
I signed up, thinking I would use it for my 1-week-a-month in Boston, but turns out to be cheaper to rent a car from Hertz for the week, especially after you factor in the savings of the $25 each-way cab fare.
Well my friend. I've got 1 reason why it's a great idea and *will* fly.
http://www.autoshare.com/
The've been running successfully for something like 8 years. I've been a member for over a year and it works smoothly... *all* the time. Never had a single problem. Not once. Sure the cars can get a bit dirty but you just clean it out and they pay you for your time. Easy as pie. You fill the gas when it goes below 1/2 tank. If you don't.. you get a fine. Easy as pie.
They've got great cars, great prices and good volume rental plans.
Any more thoughts?
As for the self checkout. I tend to agree. But you must be shopping at a store run by morons.. or very trusting people. In my local grocery (Dominion in Downtown Toronto) there's a group of 4 self-serve checkouts. There's *always* (ie 24/7) an attendant standing there to help with problems. Most of the time I go to the regular checkout lanes but I don't see much of a speed difference when I do it myself.
Jeez, people write without knowing much around here. Oh sorry, i forgot where i am.
There is a whole flock of bicycle dudes who go out (in all weather, all year long) and take care of the cars. As well, Zipcar members are encouraged to inspect the car when they go to get it, and to immediately report any problems - dents, out of washer fluid, whatever.
If it's something dumb like washer fluid, you can even buy more and they'll reimburse if you can't charge it on the (provided in the car) fleet gasoline charge card.
Far as I know, the concept is flying and has been for like 6 years now. I am a very happy Zipcar customer. I've been able to get rid of my car altogether, saving many $thousands a year... and in exchange, I pay a few $hundreds per year for use of a practically new car, with insurance, maintenance and fuel provided, whenever I need one.
As far as "whenever I need one" they seem to add cars pretty aggressively to follow demand. I've never been totally closed out... maybe you have to walk an extra 2 or 3 blocks to get to one at a specific time, but that's not really a big deal. It does require some adjustments to how you think about getting around, but the only reason I had a car in the past was for those trips that totally don't work on a bike (and taxis - just forget it, they're miserable and expensive)... this provides it.
Any more thoughs?
Yea, just one. What happens when you leave Toronto and have to rent a car in Detroit? No Autocar.
Seriously. Autocar may be a nice little business that works great in Toronto - but is the ONLY city they appear to be in (from what I can see on the website). The point of my previous post is that this business model does NOT scale very well to serve lots and lots of people (and cities). It just won't work on that level for the (some of) the reasons I outlined earlier.
Management of the fleet is hard enough for companies that do have people onsite. Much less remotely. Call me when Autocar has locations in the largest 50 cities in North America.
So your the guy that can't use those.
There is always some half baked moron that can't figure out how to work the machine.
The only time I need to stop is when I by Beer and they ned to 'check' my ID.
I am old enough where checking my ID is a formality at best.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Zeta Gundam TV show (aired in Japan from 1985-1986) has depicted this in the 80's. People are shown hopping into a "empty car" parked on the road side and are ready to go after swipping their ID card.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Actually.. your previous post made no mention of scalability whatsoever. The point of your previous post was about maintenance of the cars and the viability of the business model in the face of problems arising from its self-serve nature.
In any case.. the point of autoshare isn't to replace full day auto rentals. The point is to provide short term cars for those who don't have them. eg. if I want to go pick up some furniture from Ikea, pick up a massive load of groceries, make a midnight run to Home Depot to get fuses. Car rentals work only on the full day (and sometimes half day). If I only need a car for 1 hour autoshare provides me one for about 8 dollars.
All you naysayers are such geniuses! If only your keen business insight was around 10 years ago, you could have prevented City Car Share and Auto Share from the horrible failure of their current businesses!
Oh, wait.
To address your moronic "points", please note that, although the key is in the car, the car's ignition system is tied to an electronic key-card access system. So busting into the car to grab the key nets you nothing at all.
And the "no human in the loop" ignores all those humans in the loop. If you show up to take a car and it's damaged, you just note it in the log book. The car service figures out who was responsible later. And, the cars are inspected, serviced, and cleaned weekly by - surprise! - a human.
Naysayers can just please go away. Borrowing a car for an hour is not a complicated transaction. You reserve the car, walk up to it, wave your electronic key, and drive off. It's *EASY* and it *WORKS IN PRACTICE*. You can't argue with success.
Well, we can tell you've never tried it. In Chicago, it's called iGo, but is basically the same thing, and acually, it works very well. Almost every car has a "sponsor" that keeps track of the car, and it's care, but if there's a problem, you just call and tell them. Then they fix it. Done. The cars are all new or nearly new, and mostly honda civics and elements here, so very reliable. That is just some of the 10,000 reasons I think this is a bad idea and won't fly It's already flown.
Yes, they describe the cars as "living" (their marketers can be a little too cute at times) in specific locations... Parking is very hard to come by here, so this makes sense for a lot of reasons, including that you're never very far from a car. I usually rent one that's near "where I'm going to be" when I want it, which isn't usually my apartment. The cars are sprinkled all around town. By car faeries.
Things like "surprise sex" and "self-serve car rentals" have both been around for a while.
Zipcar's been around since 2000:
Part-time wheels: City dwellers share cars through new service
By HEIDI B. PERLMAN
Associated Press Writer
637 words
23 June 2000
08:29
Associated Press Newswires
English
Copyright 2000. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.
BOSTON (AP) - It took only a month for the traffic jams, insurance costs and parking woes of Cambridge to convince Katherine Watkins to sell her car when she moved from Kentucky.
But after two years riding the bus and taking cabs, she finally broke down and got a car again. Sort of.
Watkins is a new member of Zipcar, a service that allows her to share a car with more than a dozen other people for $4.50 an hour.
"My cat was sick and I had to bring her to the vet, and it was just too much to do in a cab," she said. "I finally decided I really do need a car, just not all the time."
Zipcar, based in the Boston suburb of Cambridge, caters to drivers such as Watkins, who like the convenience of having a car but don't like what it costs to maintain one in the city
Wordnik, a dictionary project which aims to collect
I absolutely fucking hate the stupid self serve checkouts at grocery store.
You and your 80 yr old grandmother who wants to discover these new fangled 'puters, should stay away from self checkout then. As a former grocery store employee, I find them easy to use 90% of the time, and I enjoy checking out while the lady w/ 20 items in the 15 items or less lane paying w/ a check is holding everybody else up.
I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_sharing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexcar
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Really bad rates, I have to pay up front for the privilegde and I can rent a car for 17/day here. How much did the ol Burrito get for this advertisement?
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Return the car late and suffer Draconian penalties: five times the hourly rate. The person who returns it late gets blackmarked and eventually disqualified.
Actually, renting a car is probably simpler than pumping gas. Complicated things can happen with a rented car, but they don't happen when you're at the agency, so there's no way that there's going to be a customer service person handy (when a Hertz car breaks down on the highway, you don't pull the Hertz guy out of the trunk and ask him what to do...).
Zipcar deals with that sort of stuff the same as anyone renting cars to people, and they deal with major repairs the same way as anyone else, too; you're required to report problems the car is having, and they fix them when nobody is renting the car. They also move the cars around themselves to put them in useful places. The customer is responsible for parking the car where it came from, but the space is reserved anyway, so that isn't difficult.
The deal with gas in a similar way to normal rental companies, except that you don't have to game the system and get the tank slightly over half full to minimize your cost; they just pay for the gas and cover it in the price, and they require you to leave it with 1/4 tank (unless, I assume, you're driving the all-electric SUV, which you just park back on the charger).
Renting a car really is a completely trivial transaction compared to buying groceries, which are a large number of small cheap items that can't be heavily instrumented. It's even easier than pumping gas, since they have you get a membership beforehand and they don't have to deal with cash or charging cards at the pump. Keeping the rental business running smoothly isn't automatic or possible to do well self-serve, but that's also all behind the scenes.
Seriously, stop using the term Web 2.0. NOW.
When finished driving your Zipcar, take it back to the place you found it, wave your ZipCard over the sensor in the windshield to lock it and end your rental period, and step away from the vehicle.
You arn't serious are you? Computers have been replacing people for decades now. We are moving to a information economy now. Get with it.
Little known fact, more money is comming into America in onshoring (my own word) than offshoring of jobs. While there are many physical jobs going overseas, those companies overseas are paying Americans to be lawyers, architects, consultants, etc.
If there are no people in the loop, why is it still so expensive? I rent cars frequently when I travel for business and I generally pay about $11/day for an economy model (this is without coupons, specials, or any sort of membership, just the normal rate at one of the big-name chains). $60/day - even for a nicer car, even with gas included - is a pretty hefty premium to pay just for not having to talk to the person behind the counter...
Perfectly Normal Industries
Self-service car rental? GTA: Vice City has been out for over a year now, man.
The above is most likely humour. Slashdot foot icon goes here.
The answer is no. I wanted to use a ZipCar back in March to get from Boston to a little town about 4 hours to the west. They wanted like $50 just to sign up to use their service (a one year membership), plus all the fees for taking the vehicle that day for 12 hours and driving it hundreds and hundreds of miles. They charge you way too much for convenience. It's a shame, because I was quite excited to use their service, but it was just too expensive. I ended up missing a Philip Glass concert and was quite bummed. You'd think having no office or desk would save money. What the hell is their target demographic, anyway?
"First Post" a full four minutes after the article was posted? On Slashdot? You're "special," aren't ya?
Flexcar and Zipcar -- two services, same deal -- are in fact each represented in multiple cities and appear to be scaling up at approximately the same rate, which would indicate that they're seeing similar business opportunities. You're really working hard to miss the point; this is a car-sharing service, not an Avis/Hertz manque. I've been a FlexCar member for quite some time now and frankly the availability of cars in other cities has nothing to do with my FlexCar use; as someone who treats it as a car-ownership substitute, I'm only concerned that the service scale sustainably in the city I'm in. If they can do that, building out to other communities becomes a secondary issue.
A few years ago I was almost missed my flight out of Ireland because of a minor collision with a rental car. The rental company wanted to charge me a $400-$500 for the damages and wouldn't put it on my debit card even though that's how I paid for the rental. I ended up having to call my bank and get someone there verify that I had the funds in my account before the company would run my card. Not fun when the opening time for the customer service line was a few minutes before I had to be at the airline gate.
From then on, I've always paid for the optional insurance if I had any concerns that forking over my regular insurance deductible would be a hassle with the rental company or could leave me with insufficient funds to deal with other expenses.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
vandals must love that. don't like the person who just dropped off the car? knock out a tail light or something so the next person will call up the rental company and they will blame it on the first renter.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
If something's wrong, you call the toll-free number. They run remote diagnostics (some pretty spooky ones -- love the way they can just throw a vehicle into Valet Mode) and if they can't fix it, they send the repair crew. They'll also tell you where the nearest available vehicle is and reserve it for you if necessary.
/.verse...)
Missing mirror or other major problems, please see my other post re reportage and repair.
Gas, oil, etc. -- Flexcar does a lot of remote monitoring (through the gas charge cards and through the satellite system itself), so presumably the computers are telling them which cars are due for the usual maintenance. Re gas, BTW, members are expected to fuel up when the needle goes below 1/4; there's a handy card and members are given the appropriate codes. I've never found a vehicle not to have sufficient fuel, but if you got into one and found it on fumes you could presumably call the support line and they'll handle it as they do other problems.
(Same goes for reservation overruns, BTW -- you call, they handle. Because sooner or later someone's got to ask the questin that actually *does* come up IRL with these services, right? Oh, wait, maybe not in the
Ned Ludd called. He wants his philosophy back.
- Click Das Netz (The network)
- Choose a city you like
- Click zur Stadt (to the city)
- You will see a map. Click on Buchungen aller Autos in
... (Bookings on all cars in ...)
- Now you see all the cars in the city and the times when they are booked. Another click an you are in the booking dialogue.
As a customer you can rent cars all over Germany. It is organized by the biggest railway company in Germany to enhance the mobility of their clients.That is an excellent point. Who would examine damages upon returning the vehicle? Most people think of a car as a huge object and examine it as a whole. If the bumper isn't smashed in, there are no damages and we can ignore the 15 dents around the body of the car. The actual value of the vehicle depreciates based on cosmetics just as it does on the drivetrain condition. Why is it that insurance companies will not (as a whole) help get your engine rebuilt, but, they will pay insane amounts for small scratches on the bumpers? The answer is: superficial values of cars. The general idea (at least in the US) is this : the industry is geared towards pretty cars. Without human beings inspecting conditions of vehicles upon leaving+return, it is very easy to blame someone else on issues. Not all damages are spotted every time even in cases where vehicles are inspected by professionals, so just imagine how amateurs would do it. If the last guy ignored the problem, so may the next guy until more problems show up-- and then YOU just may be blamed for all of them at once. Another comment to ponder is conditions of vehicles. Cleaning a vehicle once per week is downright terrible. The rental vehicles in traditional companies are cleaned more frequently than that, and they are still unacceptably dirty. It costs a lot of $$ to detail a vehicle and cleaners are simply not paid enough to work harder nor are they given proper machinery to get everything spiffy. I thought it was amusing how the advertisements mention fancy cars, "if you want a mazda convertible, blah blah,..", "or if you want a fast muscle car you can alter your plans by an hour". In my experiences, people are more upset about fancy cars being slightly dirty than by mundane cars being completely dirty. For example, this is what I have seen over the years: Un-vacuumed, unwashed Dodge Magnum (say $40/day): no problem Shiny clean Mercedes C280 or a Cadillac DeVille (say $115/day): THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. THESE TIRES LOOK EMBARASSINGLY DIRTY. TIRE SHINE HAS NOT BEEN PUT ON THESE TIRES. I DEMAND TO SPEAK WITH YOUR MANAGER. I can understand the convenience of self-serve car rental, but, I am horrified by the possibilities of problems and inconveniences of service. Then again, how do you complain about the vehicle? Must be interesting not to have someone to yell at upon returning a vehicle.
Here it's called Communauto, it's been available for a few years.
:)
http://www.communauto.com/index_ENG.html
My girfriend and I subscribed last fall. It's very convenient, whether it is for a short visit to see Grandma or to stop at IKEA for some stuff...
They also have long distance plans and per-day fees if you want to get the car for a long week-end.
The thing that bothers me a little bit, and this is where it will never having a car of your own, is that you have to plan your trips. You can't just decide on a saturday morning "Hey, let's take the car right now and go someplace nice for the week-end".
But it's really a minor inconvenient, and not paying for a car that would stay in my driveway for 5 days really is good on for the budget, and we can spend that money elsewhere (a colleague of my girlfriend who has a car keeps telling her we seem to go out a lot!)
We are definitely staying with this system. Of course, I don't think it would work as well in cities where public transit isn't well developped.
There are countless organizations that do auto sharing now, similar to rental, but in a pay as you use.
Example:
http://www.autoshare.com/how.html
$6/hr including gas, insurance, etc.
a 'fleet' of cars all around the city.
You book a car, it gives you a code and a location at the time that you want it.
You pick up the car and drop it off in acceptable public parking lots.
It's expensive for a day, but great to get a car to go do groceries or make a trip you wouldn't normally do for downtown folk, such as a business meeting uptown or so on.
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
That's funny, only because it's true.
I finally gave in to the pressure from the Ryder truck rental guy to pay an extra $100 for the insurance. Two days later I drove that 12 foot truck under an 11 foot overhang, doing about four thousand dollars worth of damage in the process. I was amazed at how fragile that big truck was, actually - but I was real happy I bought that insurance.
As I understand it with Zipcar, there is a deposit you pay ($25 or $50 maybe?) and when the next guy rents the car and doesn't complain about it being dirty inside those funds are released. Like a bond, sort of. I could be wrong, haven't had any coffee yet.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
Is that a vague way to refer to "stealing cars"? Oh wait...
I've been using ZipCar for about a year for business. The cars nearest me are parked at a private indoor lot only a few blocks from my apartment, so I never had to brush snow or ice in the winter, which is nice.
Annoyingly, ZipCar tends to charge my credit card for the tolls I incurred weeks after the reservation. Why does it take so long? Doesn't EZPass give them some kind of realtime account? They must have a hundred EZPass tags in this area.
The cars tend to be quite clean. I've never gotten into one and found pet hair or smelled cigarette smoke or anything like that. I once found a few unused napkins in the cupholder, but who cares?
The only real gripe I have with ZipCar is that the card is a little unpredicable when I try to open the cars. Waving it past the sensor doesn't really work. I have to slap it right against the windshield over the sensor, and if the card is even a little bent, it won't work at all. On one of the cars I rented it would only trigger the locks if I tapped the card against the windshield at a 90 degree angle. (Any radio nerds want to explain that to me?)
If Zipcar is Web 2.0, what isn't? This is beyond absurd.
sulli
RTFJ.
St Louis? Where is that?
Lies about crimes
I live in NYC and use ZipCar's service. It's a little misleading to refer to is as a "car rental" service; I'd call it a "scalable car sharing service," at least when talking to geeks. It's best for people who don't have a car at all (and there are a LOT of us in NYC). If you own a car and need to rent while travelling or for a special purpose that your car can't handle (e.g., moving), it's usually cheaper to rent a car from a rental agency. For folks without a car, for many short duration trips, ZipCar is a lot cheaper. What's the difference? Largely, insurance. If you already own a car, your car insurance will usually cover a rental. Rental car insurance can run up to $25/day (which can more than double the daily rate on those $20/day specials). I can reserve a ZipCar on the weekend for $65/day *including* gas for up to 125 miles; and I don't have to travel out of my way to pick up the car or spend a lot of time doing comparison shopping.
The customer is responsible for parking the car where it came from, but the space is reserved anyway, so that isn't difficult.
out of interest do any of theese services offer one way travel (e.g. pick up at one depot drop off at another)?
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
The idea behind the comment was to highlight the fact that Americans work or did work the jobs that computers, off-shorers, and illegal immigrants take. I'm all for change. I don't however like the lies that are shoved down our throats everyday about Americans not wanting these jobs to begin with. And yes, If sparking dialog on that particular part of the subject is trolling then I'm all about that. Isn't posting to forums just one big Troll Fest anyway? Jeez...
Not that I know of; I think there isn't enough demand for one-way trips to make it worth the logistics. And they'd have to have somewhere to put cars that end up in spaces other than the ones they came from. Zipcar doesn't have depots, exactly. They rent and reserve a space in a garage or parking lot for each car, and there's nothing in the area aside from a sign and (if it's not in use) the car. So they'd need to have extra spaces, and have a system for reserving the ability to leave cars in them, as well as supporting people reserving cars from places they aren't usually, and bringing cars back where they came from.
I was just driving in St. Louis this weekend. Please, if you happen to meet anyone even remotely related to the synchronization of stoplights there, kick him/her in the shins for me.
Augh. Not a single green light down there. Some of the surrounding towns are alright, but in the city proper...
I don't drive in the city itself often but some of the roads I do drive on have crappy sync. I did read in the local paper that there's going to be at least one project to fix some of the light sync problems. Too bad I don't remember where that was.
You would think that accelerating to the speed limit as soon as you leave a red light would get you greens. But nooooooooooo.
i am a soviet space shuttle
I guess they're relying upon people being able to do the calculus,
and look at it as a deposit rebated across use, and not some kind
of initiation fee. But hey, whatever, your loss. At least you didn't
join back when they first started and a memberhsip was $300 (to cover
insurance). Sure, the hourly rates were a bit lower but you paid for
your mileage too. Personally, I've been a member for 3 years and only
taken a car out twice... but I have no problem with the plan (other
than that I'd like to receive a reminder when the annual fee is going
to be charged).
Were that I say, pancakes?
being a resident of Ohio, I don't think I would see good returns on the "deposit rebated across use", but thanks for calling me out on not being able to "do the calculus". way to instinctually sense my lack of advanced mathematics knowledge ; )