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Pepper Pad, an Open Alternative to MS Origami

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the fun-toys dept.

SilentBob4 writes to tell us that MadPenguin has a look at an open alternative to Microsoft's Origami, the Pepper Pad. From the article: "The Pepper Pad, like Origami, is a mid-point form factor PC that is bigger and more powerful than a PDA, but smaller and less optimized for traditional desktop PC tasks than a notebook computer or a desktop PC. The Pepper Pad is a good buy for people who would like to have a light-weight, dirt-simple, point-and-click open source device for watching videos, listening to music, reading e-books, and doing simple web surfing with a view screen that is actually easy to read. If you want do more than that, you are really better off getting a small Linux notebook, unless you are willing to get under the hood (which you can do with the Pepper Pad!) and start compiling for yourself."

31 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. Input by Umbral+Blot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No offense to the people who make these devices, but they need better text input than the minisule keyboard that the image for this product shows it having. Stop trying to put all the keys there and innovate. Maybe something like a chorded keyboard? I really want a small computing device, which I could whip out and take a note or two on, but as long as it is easier to write on paper it seems silly to switch to something like this.

    --

    Philosophy.
    1. Re:Input by Moofie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Innovation doesn't change my muscle memory. If you want to use a chorded keyboard, there's nothing stopping you. I don't, however, think that a large number of people are interested in learning a new way of typing. Learning the regular way was a huge PITA.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:Input by EvanED · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Supposedly the handwriting recognition of Windows Mobile is very good.

      I think that handwriting is a MUCH better approach than trying to do voice recognition, which another poster said. You could use it in a croweded room and not worry about either interference or being heard, or in a library. Depending on the application, handwriting recoginition could be better than a keyboard too. It'd probably be faster for almost everyone (even if it would be possible to type faster, I would guess almost no one would spend enough time learning to reach that point) and would have essentially no learning curve.

      Finally, you might look at a project called Dasher. I don't think I'd actually want to use it for anything big, but it's a very interesting concept and pretty darn cool.

    3. Re:Input by vonFinkelstien · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nothing is stopping you from plugging in an USB keyboard.

    4. Re:Input by Zeinfeld · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I was going to say "it has a touch screen and a stylus and that should be adequate for 'a note or two' blah, blah, blah" but apparently this device does not support handwriting recognition.

      Probably because the article is pretty much Linux boosterism. They start with the untrue claim that this has beaten the windows devices to market. Some Windows devices have already shipped.

      I get a bit tired of apple/linux advocacy of the 'lets ignore every defect of our system' variety. Its like watching the idiot talking heads on the Sunday chat shows. Today the left will be trying to explain why driving on prescription drugs is no big deal whil the right try to claim that the resignation of the CIA Director had nothing to do with the gay hookers being ferried to the Watergate building to spice up the poker parties attended by GOP congressmen and the guy he appointed number 3 in the agency.

      If only the partisans on either side would just once admit 'hey one of our guys screwed up'.

      I blogged on Pepper earlier. I won't go into the full details but I think that the PC makers have so far botched the midi format. The original premise was that the format would be cheap, so the makers don't want to make the devices too good in case they poach customers from the existing laptop market. So they make sure that a couple of features they identify as essential for 'power users' are stripped out.

      The feature that has been stripped out of all the devices to date is video out. The Pepper device has composite out for a TV but you can't hook it up to a projector to do PowerPoint (or open office equivalent). Without that capability the device is no use to me personally and I suspect no use to most of the intended early adopters. Adapters, add on cards don't cut it, the capability has to be native to the machine.

      The main early adopters of a device like this are likely to be salesmen. They have the budget to buy toys, they do a lot of travel. Without the ability to present its useless.

      The other killer app I suspect would be photographers who want a super-duper media vault. But anyone doing that is almost certain to want to have photoshop on the device as well and the ability to hook up to a full size display when available.

      The thumb board is a welcome development, although it is forced on this device due to lack of good open source handwriting recognition (too many patents for that to be viable) I think it will quickly appear on the windows ones as well.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    5. Re:Input by Eideewt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But games tend to reward you as you go along. Typing is pretty much impossible until you learn most of the chords.

    6. Re:Input by fm6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whenever a device like this appears on Slashdot, there are always posts that say in effect, "But it doesn't support what I'd like it to do!" You should evaluate a product in terms of what it tries to do, not what you want it to do.

    7. Re:Input by Sj0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And why is that?

      We don't buy products to do what others want to do, we buy them for what WE want to do. At least, that's what the sane among us do.

      To try to confine our views to what the machine claims to do is to fall prey to marketing.

      --
      It's been a long time.
  2. Not Bad by datafr0g · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bit short on the HDD space (20GB), especially given that these devices are intended to be used for data consumption - I'd expect there'd be a little more space for movies, etc. Battery life really needs to be sorted out too at 2 hours.

    Other than that - cool!

    One question though - how do you hold these things safely? You know, like Laptops not being recommended for use in your lap? Laptops (or notebooks, whatever), will sit fine on a table, these things don't look like they would. I noticed a small stand on the back of the image but - I dunno - it seems more like a device I'd want to hold rather than have it set up on a table or desk - sort of kills the portability aspect for me.

    --
    "Who says nothing is impossible? Some people do it every day!" - Alfred E. Neuman
  3. Another product solution by ElitistWhiner · · Score: 2, Insightful

    waiting for the right problem to solve.

    This is what happens when engineers get to spec what they like, without requirements.

    1. Re:Another product solution by anagama · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I play go at a coffee shop near my office once a week. There's a guy who comes there with this Vaio thing -- I haven't looked at it very closely because it didn't interest me much, but essentially it's a little black brick with a small (6 or 7 inch range) but high resolution screen. It's probably a bit smaller than a 200 page hardback novel. Still, once he props it in an upright position, plugs in something to the upper left (wifi perhaps?) and plugs in a foldable keyboard, it takes up more room than a 12" laptop.

      Add in a fresnel lens (think Brazil) to keep from going blind, and I don't see any advantage. And for those who like to keep their hands on the keyboard, using a touch pen is worse than a mouse. I saw a video demonstrating some of the earliest interfaces (early Englebert groundbreaking stuff in the 50s). At first they used a pen but found that people became very tired very quickly when they had to point at the screen with it repetively. With the Sony mentioned above in the propped up position, using the stylus pointer would be very tiring.

      The fact is, we have hands of a particular size, visual capabilities of a particular resolution, and pockets too small to fit a device that meets those physical requirements. A pocketable AND usable computer is going to take some big leaps -- for instance glasses that function as high res displays (at reasonable prices, weights, and appearances) and a real break from finger oriented input. Whoever figures out how to free input from dependence on the human hand will make a bundle -- and they should because it isn't going to be an easy feat.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  4. I dunno... by IANAAC · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If what you're looking for is a nice alternative to Windows Mobile, why not consider an import from either Dynamism or Trisoft? They both offer a smaller form factor Linux-based clamshell with better keyboards for half the price. Not only that, they have both SD and CF slots to expand storage.

    I don't get the "gotta have" with this.

    Tablet PCs that are able to run Linux are cheaper, if you're looking for a hard-disk based solution.

    1. Re:I dunno... by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, less hardware is kind of subjective. The Pepper Pad comes in at 12.1 inches. To me , that's not any more portable than a laptop. I guess I place a premium on the small size of the Zaurus. Plus, there's an incredibly active developer community that pretty much provides any type of application I could ever want or use on it.

  5. The PepperPad has been around for ages... by Swift+Kick · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not a new device, and has never really caught on, regardless of how many times you might scream it has Linux inside. It might be neat for those that just have the burning desire of throwing money away, and that's about it.

    See for yourself...

    - It was announced back in 2004, and Engadget mentioned it:

    http://www.engadget.com/2004/09/08/the-pepper-pad- 2/

    Then Tux Magazine reviewed it in April 2005, and it was still not available to the public:

    http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000125

    Now it's available for sale, but for the price it's selling ($850), you can easily pick a cheap laptop with far more expandability for quite less.

    Do you think it's portable? Think again. Look at the dimensions:

    http://www.pepper.com/products/specifications.html

    12.1" x 6.6" x 0.8" (309 x 175 x 20mm)
    2.3 lbs (1043 grams)

    Now, for something this big, why not get something that's cheaper and just better like say, the Dell Inspiron B120 for $499, with free memory and wifi upgrades? See for yourself:

    http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features. aspx/featured_basnb?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

    Just my 2 cents....

    --
    "We'll need 2000 crickets, 4 cans of Easy Cheese, and the fluid from 18 glowsticks for this plan to work...." - ph0n1c
    1. Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... by christian.einfeldt · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hi SwiftKick,

      This is not a new device

      No, it's not a new device. I reviewed this product now because of the hype around Origami. For those of us who don't like DRM, and do like open source, I wanted to talk about the Pepper Pad in comparison to Origami. IIRC, none of the reviews that you cite in your post were written at a time when Origami had been announced. That's what's new. The context.

    2. Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      First of all, it runs Linux (no flames please; everyone should be able to admit that most people don't use Linux).

      Nobody gives a stuff what OS it runs. As long as you can double-click the movie/audio icons to play them, most consumers won't notice that it's different to windows under the hood. They'd expect a device like this to have differences to a fully-fledged computer.

      Second, it's got a strange keyboard that you probably can't touch-type on.

      And yet, people are destroying their thumbs on mobile phone keypads daily. This is a step up from that, at the very least, and is not designed to be used to enter a lot of information. The article specifically says it's designed for media consumption - playing audio, video and surfing the web. If you think you're going to be using this thing to write reports, buy a laptop.

      And finally, it's slow. I don't care what kind of IPC it has; 624 MHz just isn't fast enough for something big enough to be a real computer.

      It's not trying to be a real computer. It's trying to be a media station. Nobody who uses it will care how fast it's clock-cycles are as long it doesn't skip during DVD playback.

      Now, you wanna know how to fix it? Turn it into a convertible tablet with a real keyboard, put in a bigger (10.4") screen, give it a decent CPU (e.g. 1+ GHz) and more RAM, and (as much as it pains me to say it) put Windows Tablet Edition (or better yet, Mac OS, but that's just a fantasy) on it.

      So, turn it into a laptop? I think all you've done is prove that you're not the target market for this device.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    3. Re:The PepperPad has been around for ages... by idlake · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nobody gives a stuff what OS it runs.

      People writing vertical apps certainly do. And being one of the few devices running Linux in that form factor makes it quite attractive, in particular given the price.

  6. Paper Pad by CtrlPhreak · · Score: 4, Funny

    Anybody else read this as Paper Pad alternative to MS origami? Think of it, infinite battery life, lots of storage space, great handwritting recognition, light weight... come on someone start writing the jokes.

    --
    WikiAfterDark.com It's a sex wiki, go now!
  7. Re:Who chooses these names? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Funny

    No. They go to the Google page, type gibberish and hit the "I'm Feeling Lucky" button to randomly find a cute name that hasn't been taken. This also works for finding baby names. :P

  8. "At this time, you cannot do this"... by rdoherty · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'll wait until they make a few improvements...

    Currently, it only synchronizes with Windows (even though its marketed for the open source community)... being a software issue, I'm certain that they'll eventually port it to Linux.. The 2 hour battery life will need some improvement.. Their FAQ contains too many "At this time, you cannot do this".. and worst of all is that it may not support 3rd party applications...

    I'll check in on the Pepper Pad in a few months to see how its improved...

  9. I'm interested... by Null+Nihils · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At first glance, I'm interested, and yet I can't help shake the feeling that there's something rather clumsy about these devices. There is definitely something appealing about the "bigger than a PDA, smaller than a laptop" form-factor, but as I've seen mentioned already this seems like a solution waiting for the problem. My 3 cents about what's holding these types of tech back:

    1) Input
    So far, it's hard to beat a keyboard for actually getting stuff done. Even when playing games, I tend to like having lots of little keys to use instead of a chunky controller with buttons, knobs and levers. Touch screens will do for a pointing device, although touching a screen is less continuous than holding a mouse, so mice still have their advantages. Still, touch screens are very useful for some things (market checkouts or anything with an incremental flow of finite options) and I'd like to see them become more commonplace, but you still can't use them for text entry.

    2) Software and Flexibility
    TFA also mentions that the "Pepper Pad" also lacks useful preloaded software (eg. a calendar). Hardware is useless without some intelligent, useable software to run on it. Also, the Pepper Pad would make a wonderful handheld media device if not for the price tag, which begs that the device be used as more than just a replacement for a portable DVD player. As per the "solution waiting for a problem" comment, people are yet to really think of what software you'd want specifically for a device like this, with these abilities, that you can carry with you.

    3) Internet Availability, Battery Power (Wirelessness)
    This last one is rather simple, in that an Internet-aware device is useful for accessing all that the Web and Net have to offer... provided you have access to the Internet. Wi-Fi is still far from obiquitious. And, if a device needs to suckle on a wall socket (or a car's 12V plug) after 45 mins of heavy use, its not really very "wireless" or "portable".

    And there are my 3 cents.

  10. Nokia 770 anyone? by wertarbyte · · Score: 2, Informative

    This Pepper pad looks nice, just like a bigger version of the Nokia 770, which runs Linux as well. Having an open plattform is a nice way to attract developers and establish a nice collection of applications. I hope we see more of those linux gadgets in the future.

    --
    Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.
  11. Re:Way too many buttons and controls. by christian.einfeldt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    hi geoff lane,

    Get rid of all the buttons and use a proper virtual keyboard on a touch sensitive screen.

    You are right about the thumbpad keyboard. The keys are rubbery and gummy, and they kind of roll under your fingers. It's annoying. BUT. Consider the alternatives. Unfortunately, the alternatives are not good. You suggested a touch keyboard, but IMHO, that would be even worse than the rubbery, slippery thumbkeys. From having used the Pepper Pad to write much of TFA, I can tell you that you will need a light USB keyboard if you want to do any serious writing at all.

    However, the Pepper Pad is not a notebook computer. A notebook computer can be a serious production machine. The Pepper Pad is a toy. It's fun to play with. The touch screen is really quite fun. So the Pepper Pad is really only for watching video, writing a few short emails or URLs or Google searches, and that's it.

    The reason that I reviewed it at this time is because of all the hype around Origami. Do we really want people to get sucked into another Microsoft DRM'd device? (Origami). You can bet that Microsoft and its partners are going to spend billions to push the Origami. Origami is not on the market yet, but I will bet dollars to donuts that it is going to suck compared with the Pepper Pad. And one of the things that Origami is going to feature is ... a touch screen keyboard. Ick. Slow. Frustrating. You CAN'T touch type with a touch screen keypad, but I actually WAS able to touch type with the rubbery, annoying little Pepper Pad keys!! It wasn't fast or easy, but it was possible.

  12. Completely useless by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, if you want something that you can actually type on and get work done with, you shouldn't buy this.

    If you want something that you can take anywhere, jot down a couple of notes, keep track of a calendar, etc. You also shouldn't buy this.

    How many people are going to buy this thing just to watch movies? I know that I wouldn't want to spend this much money on something with only one function. And most of my routine web browsing necessitates a lot of typing (slashdot, forums, etc.)

    --
    -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
  13. Sure, I'm buying one tomorrow!! by supertsaar · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...you can not only switch easily frojm one application to another, but you can also cut and paste content from, say, Writely's word processing tool to the Pepper Pad Journal and back again....

    Wow, that is übercool...:P

    ...You are a GNU/Linux gadget lover. Just think, you get to rub your Mac friends' noses in the fact that a Linux device was first to have a touch screen,....

    Never heard of the Newton I suppose...

    --
    The Bigger The Headache The Bigger the Pill
  14. That's nice, but give me an ARM powered laptop... by Sam+Haine+'95 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If somebody made an ARM powered laptop with solid state storage then I'd be very happy. No moving parts, silent, incredible battery life.

  15. Re:That's nice, but give me an ARM powered laptop. by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nokia 770. 800x480 screen. Grab a bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and you're all set. (sort-of)

    --
    Don't piss off The Angry Economist
  16. Re:Newtons, all of 'em. by RiffRafff · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The point is, Origami looks suspiciously like a Newton.

    You say that like it's a bad thing.

    Everyone who sees my Newton 2100 (which I still use on a daily basis) is impressed by one particular thing: its screen real estate. Yeah, it's bigger than a Palm Pilot, but it also does more. Plus, you don't have to learn some new inane way of writing; you just write (or print). That's the second thing that impresses...writing in English (and yes, we've all heard the Trudeau jokes, but the HWR on the 2000 and 2100 was simply superb) anywhere on the screen instead of writing hieroglyphs on top of each other in one spot and numbers in another until the touch membrane is deformed.

    This Pepper Pad needs its bright color screen combined with the Newton's ease-of-input and battery life. Then then they'd have a winner.

    --
    "I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
  17. Re:No thanks by GodSpiral · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The design is to let you type with 2 thumbs. Its probably inputable while walking too.
    I like this design a lot. good subway, bathroom, and meeting computer. Not so great if you just want something to take from office to home to hotel, or need something more pocketable and forgettable.

  18. So how is this any better than the Nokia 770? by mingrassia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So how is this any better than the Nokia 770?

    I mean the 770 already has an active community behind it and an open development environment that you can dig right into.

    Yes, the 770 is a bit underpowered but the form factor looks MUCH better than the Pepper Pad. Plus I can go to the store and get one NOW.

    --
    OS X, Linux, Tivo, Amiga, my fascination with cult-like technologies would intrigue any psychiatrist.
  19. A fanboy this way walks by JamesGecko · · Score: 2, Insightful
    You are a GNU/Linux gadget lover. Just think, you get to rub your Mac friends' noses in the fact that a Linux device was first to have a touch screen....

    Apple Newton, anyone?