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Microsoft Sides With Nintendo Against Sony
rafemonkey writes "Looks like Microsoft loves the Wii. The Washington Post has an article in which VP Peter Moore says that since the PS3 is so expensive, gamers might as well get an Xbox 360 and a Wii for the cost of one Sony console." From the article: "Microsoft predicted on Tuesday it will have 10 million Xbox 360 consoles in the market before Sony launches the PS3. The high-end Xbox 360 sells for $399, but it does not include a built-in high-definition DVD video player that comes with Sony's PS3. Sony plans to sell a premium PS3 model for $599 when it debuts in North America on November 17, and Nintendo has not yet disclosed pricing for Wii." On that last note there is much speculation that Nintendo is aiming for a $249 price point. Sony's Kaz Hirai has in turn responded that the PlayStation 3 is priced for consumers, who are getting a lot for their money.
Sounds like they are trying to generate more positive press for the 360 by riding Nintendos coattails from the Revolution presentation.
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
"Hirai said different versions of gaming machines will likely be the norm from here on out, likening it to buying a computer today, where buyers can select from different configuration options to what best suits them."
There's a reason I play games on consoles nowadays. Consoles are simple. I really don't want to start having to study the game box to see if my console will play game X for that console.
Microsoft, first give me the Halo series on the Wii (complete with Wiimote control scheme) and then I'll start taking you seriously.
This guy's the limit!
Of course Microsoft is going to endorse Nintendo over Sony, because the Wii is not as much of a direct competitor to the 360 as the PS3 will be. So MS pushes a "360 for the bling, Wii for the party games" solution.
If you really think about it, the xBox360 and the Wii are more complementary than they are competitive. The 360 will of course sate anybody's need for HD gaming (and, when the time comes, HD-DVD as well with the add-on) and (though I'm personally not a fan) Halo 3. The Wii will offer gameplay experiences not available elsewhere.
All for roughly the price of a system with a three-generation old controller (but crappier - no rumble support and unresponsive 3D movement) that will offer no visual improvement over the 360. Unless Blu-Ray really IS all it's cracked up to be, I really don't see the advantage of buying the PS3 over the competition.
Microsoft has said this before. When Nintendo first showed off the controller, MS called it "innovative" (the same buzzword they used when they were trying to protect themselves from the Justice Department, e.g. "freedom to innovate"). In every interview I've ever read since then, the interviewers hit hard with Sony/Microsoft questions then always toss in "So what do you think of Nintendo?" You always get "Revolution/Wii's innovative" and "I can't wait to play X Mario, Y Zelda, etc."
:P ). I'm sure if Nintendo hung up the towel they would have no problem letting them develop on Xbox 460 and a Halftwist, but I don't think they're serious about buying them out or forming a partnership.
Does this mean a deathknell for Nintendo? Not at all. At their core, Moore, Allard, etc. are gamers. They're MS businessmen, but they're gamers. They know what good games look like and try to court the best talent (well, except Rare...
if microsoft wasn't scared of the ps3 they would stand on their own two feet and say, screw the wii, screw the ps3, we're gonna win all by ourselves.
but now they're saying oh crap we need a buddy cuz the ps3 scares the pants off us.
microsoft complaining about the ps3 price is dumb, the xbox360 premium's market price was $800-1000 on ebay for the first 5 months. if tons of people are willing to pay that much for an xbox360, (which does not have a 60gig hdd, hi-def DVD drive, integrated wi-fi) then people will easily pay $600 for a ps3 that has a 60gig hdd and a BluRay DVD drive and integrated wi-fi.
Evil? Why are they evil? Have they killed countless millions of people? Have they disenfranchised an entire population and brought them under a brutal dictatorship? Have they done scientific experiments on unwilling human-beings? Have they enslaved millions of people to do their bidding in extremely harsh and abusive environments? Have they ever attempted ethnic cleansing?
Let's try a less exaggerated term. Unethical or something similar perhaps. Let's keep the use of superlatives like evil for things that really deserve it.
Skip the 360 and get the Wii! You'll not only save money, but also the time involved in shopping until you actually find a 360 for sale (and none of that "Core" crap either).
My sig is too lon
I agree. The Wii actually looks fun to play, not just the game old crap with a bunch of extra polygons and texels. And the fact that it is priced affordably means I might actually buy one at launch or close to it.
Nintendo really made it easy to choose which next gen to invest in.
While I plan to get the Wii to checkout the new controller (and some of thier exclusive games), I wouldn't really call Wii a "next-gen" console. Its basically an original Xbox or PS2 with a cool new controller. Looks to have some great games and possibly some awsome new gameplay possibilities with the controller, but at least not "next-gen" the way I think of it.
Now I know lots of people are all "I don't need that eye candy" and I'd agree with that, but it sure is nice. But the thing to remember is the power of the 360 and presumably the PS3 (but thats off the list for pricing related to try to force Blu-ray on its customers) doesn't just provide "eye candy". That power also allows better AI, better physics, etc, etc, etc.
The reason I love gaming is because the emersive elements of it and that is mostly due to storyline (which all can do) and realisim (AI, physics, etc, etc... yes including the evil "eye candy"). While I have great hopes for the Wii and its controller, I've never found the I/O device to a game to have too much of an impact on my enjoyment. Be it mouse/keyboard, dual-shock, joystick, etc, etc. Its always been the story and realisim that makes me enjoy games.
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
Microsoft's decision to speak out publicly against Sony and in favor of Nintendo has to do with only one thing: HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray. I mean, you are essentially getting your moneys worth when buying a PS3, considering the price of a standalone next-gen DVD player. Just look at the amount of money Sony will be losing per console--and keep in mind, this is money lost at wholesale value. The customer is getting a $900 value at Sony's $400 expense, according to estimates claiming that the cost to produce the PS3 sits somewhere around $900. While this isn't uncommon for a company to lose money on each console sold, Sony has more to lose than anyone else. If Blu-Ray does not become the defacto standard of next-gen DVD, Sony will be facing a huge loss creating what will be considered just another proprietary format used primarily in Sony's hardware.
Similes are like metaphors
I think it's something corporate types say when they mean, "Well, that's kind of icky but it's really ok. No problem as long as it doesn't generate bad press or depress the stock price."
It's true, there are degrees of evil. Evil is not a superlative though.
It's one of these words that people have become scared of using, like "lied." "He mislead the American people," no, he lied to the American people. "Jack Abramoff was unethical," no Jack Abramoff is evil. Sure, he wouldn't win any evil contests with Hitler, but then neither would Saddam Hussein.
I could say that Sony was double-plus ungood if you like, Big Brother.
Oh, and by the way, for the record to people who seem to think I was calling Microsoft evil in my post. In that particular post, I was calling Sony evil.
Sony is evil.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
The GameCube was more powerful than the PS2, and the Wii is double the power of the GameCube, although the graphics may be even more better than that judging from the screenshots shown so far (HDR effects, physics, etc). Indeed at the time the GameCube was estimated to be nearly as powerful as the XBox.
So please explain "Its (sic) basically an original Xbox or PS2 with a cool new controller".
This all boils back down to blu-ray, and the response from E3 maybe sony's first really good test of how receptive thier customers will be to the product. Basically for Sony Blu-ray added one year and 200$ to thier console. They probably should have done a little bit better market research if they were expecting better product reception. Sony intermixed too seperate markets of thier company hoping to leverage the success in one to bolster the other. It's too early to call but it certianly very clear now how risky this is for them.
:) ) however Microsoft and Nintendo seem to both be positioned well. Sony however seems to have only it's current last gen user base (no small factor though) to help bolster demand for the PS3. I think Blu-ray may have been too risky a bet for them.
In a wierd ironic twist Microsoft will now start leveraging its dominance in the OS market with Vista's support for live anywhere to help it's console and this strategy seems to be very well concieved (as oppossed to Sonys). Then agian its not so wierd to expect Microsoft to be the Master at leveraging its OS effectivly (like they haven't done that before).
It's too early to call this whole console war (but it sure is fun to speculate isn't it
Ves
We all thought MS would die because you couldn't get a lot of games for the console and it wasn't as cool as PS2. Now, Sony is making the blunder that will allow MS to be entrenched. Not that I mind competition, but two monopolistic behemoth making odd, stupid moves is not my idea of competition.
Sony is trying to push their High def DVD standard so as to gain acceptance and market share. They are constantly trying to introduce new formats to gain acceptance. However, their latest standard is not exciting. We are still using DVDs and still want to use DVDs, we don't need a high def standard any time soon.
The mistake is trying to entrench the standard by basically making the console overpriced. That will drive marketshare to Xbox, who already is out ahead with consoles and games in the next generation, despite the overheating issues. The console now costs as much as a midrange PC which is ridiculous, and now they are competing for people's money who are trying to consider if they want a PC or an PS3.
Sony's only hurting themselves. Hopefully Nintendo will get some benefit out of this in marketshare and more people and games will come to their console.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
I believe he is refering to MemoryCard readers that plug into a PC via a USB port, so all you need to do is stick the USB cord into the PS3 instead, and Viola, Memory Stick reader for your PS3
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My housemate has an Xbox 360.
He's a bearded, long-haired, late-twenties guy who can usually be found swigging a can of Strongbow while he blows seven shades of hell out of *whatever* on his Xbox.
I could imagine him doing exactly the same thing if it were a PS3. However, I just can't see him rushing out to buy a Wii so that he can wave his arms around like a demented orchestral conductor to the tune of 'Bubble Bobble'.
He's just not the type, and he'd only end up knocking his can of cider over.
I reckon the intersection of 'possible Xbox 360 gamers' and 'possible PS3 gamers' is a lot larger than either of the two intersected with 'possible Nintendo Wii hand-wavers'. Regardless of the low price point of the Wii.
Will host for cash.
How about contextual use of language? I have an evil cat. He's never toppled a major world government. For a cat, he's still evil.
BTW, your hyperbole? That's "Nazi." Being a malicious shithead and/or conducting one's self in an antisocial manner for personal gain has been evil since, say, religion. Genocide is not required and I think there's little danger of confusion.
you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
Prime UID Club
I disagree... the GameCube is considerably more powerful than the PS2, and pretty much on par with the original Xbox. Have you ever played Resident Evil 4 or Beyond Good and Evil on the Cube? Nintendo's outgoing console is capable of some beautiful graphics.
The Wii is, of course, equipped with much more powerful graphics hardware than the GameCube; I'm confident that its games will look more or less as pretty as those on the 360 or the PS3. However, with its inventive controller and internet-based game distribution system, the Wii is the only one of these new consoles that brings something entirely new to the equation. In that sense, I would argue that it is the only one of the three that is truly "next generation."
This is one of two things:
I may be a Nintendo fanboy, but I am a capitalist first. Wii...
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
And then there are people like me. I would pay $400 more for the HD player, and definately NOT as an add-on. If it is an add-on like Microsoft is going to do, then little to no developers will ever develop for it. However, I do have an HDTV (1080i, and 720P) and was planning on buying a new HD DVD player, so now I can try a poor mans player out before I drop extra cash on a "better" one. To me this is similar to what a lot of us did with the first PS2's. We got a "cheap" DVD player that also played games.
The real question is this. Will Sony sell all 4 million units as fast as they can make them? Does anyone here honestly think that they won't? It appears that Sony has a clue on pricing their hardware and there is nothing saying that they can't or won't lower the price by next Christmas, "IF" they need to. That is a big "IF". People here in the Indianapolis area are already trying to pre order their systems every day at EB in the malls. They know the system will cost them well over $500, and they don't care.
Now, the market that Sony AND Microsoft seem to be ignoring is the children under 12. I see families with children under 12 getting the Wii (what a stupid name), because neither Microsoft OR Sony seems to have an abundance of good games for younger children AND the new system is going to cost around $250.
So I see the breakdown as this
Nintendo - Ownes the kids market with no real competition. However, real bargan shoppers will skip the new "expensive" systems and buy a cheap PS2. So this market may not be that large.
Microsoft - Fanboys of XBOX and Halo will buy this system this Christmas year. Also "buddies" of people that already own a 360, but that is about it.
Sony - The fanboys alone will buy every unit that can be made. Their only issue will be that people may buy another system "if" they can't get one for their kid this Christmas.
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Wow, you take shit way too fucking seriously. Relax a little. Operating systems are but a tiny, non-critical part of life. They are morality-neutral, despite the impassioned craziness of RMS. They just make a computer function. The fact that the most popular operating system on the market doesn't behave the way you (and a tiny, tiny sliver of the world's computer users) want doesn't mean it represses the people of the world.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
His point was that HD over component is indiscernable from HD over HDMI.
While I would agree with you that Mario Kart is probably the most static of the series you just cited, I would like to point out that it's probably the least static series in a genre of extremely static games (racing). Seriously, how much do you expect a racing game to change?
That said, all the other games change more between two games then any other two games in their respective genre's (and I would include MarioKart in that statement as well). Just because a game is a sequal doesn't make it any more or less innovative. For the most part, if anything, it just places the game in a particular genre (Zelda is Nintendo's adventure games, Mario is their platformers and family games, Metroid is their sci-fi horror).
As to who to hate, I used to be a big PlayStation fan because of its plethora of RPGs, but now I'm seeing so many companies jumping ship on the PS3, I have to wonder what's really going to happen. Still, it's hard for me to imagine not having the system that Metal Gear Solid 4 and FF13 will be on. MGS4 looks... well... solid. And FF13 is bound to be good (every game in the series I've at least enjoyed, I don't think Square has produced a dog in their main line so far), and from what I've heard about FF12, they're back on their feet again. That said, I won't pay $600 to be able to play two games, so if there isn't a massive catalog to go with the system, it might be time to jump ship. I hate what Microsoft has done to gaming: gone and brought American developers's into the console market, but I have to admit, they have a solid product this time around, although if the Wii is as good as I think it might be, it may be the only system I'll need this generation.
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
I know this is a troll post by a Sony fanboi, but I couldn't resist.
... 4 ethernet ports (now only 1), 2 HDMI ports so you can output to two TVs (now only 1, and that's only on the premium), the boomerang controller is gone (although that's probably a good thing), Killzone 2 with awesome "in-game graphics" mysteriously missing this E3, and a Spring 2006 ship that has been delayed. Furthermore, they scoffed at MS for the 2 SKU model, but then went ahead and did it themselves (and WORSE since the core model is far crappier than the premium). Then during this year's conference, they talked about how their controller was truly innovative, even though everyone in the audience knew it's just a knock-off of the Wii-mote. And finally, their slides of the two SKU model during the conference listed the only difference as the size of the HD. But the press release later showed drastic differences between the two.
:)
It seems to me the company that needs to defend themselves the most from claims of lies and trickery is Sony. Shall we jump into the time machine and see what claims Sony made last E3? Let's see here
I'm not saying MS is amazing, doesn't make mistakes, etc. In fact, I think the 2 SKU model is pretty stupid as well, and the supply issues were pretty damaging. But man, compared to Sony, they look like saints recently.
And if MS is looking saintly, then Nintendo must be God.
-- jchenx
The dreamcast's CPU is a 200MHz Hitachi SH-4, which is a 32 bit RISC processor. The PS2's EE is a pair of ~300MHz 64-bit MIPS cores tied together with another, slower core. Even just one of those cores would be more powerful than the SH4.
I'm a little less sure about graphics comparisons. The clock rate of the PS2's GS is half again higher than the PowerVR II in the Dreamcast, but we know what clock rates are good for, and it's not much outside of marketing. On the other hand, the PS2's graphics solution definitely has more bus bandwidth than that in the Dreamcast.
Finally, I have both a Dreamcast (and maybe a third to a half of the games available for the platform) and a PS2. Even some of the earlier PS2 games look better and play smoother than some of the snazziest titles on Dreamcast.
Neither the numbers nor my experience suggest that the Dreamcast is more powerful than the PS2. I call shenanigans.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You're right. It's not "next-gen" like PS3 or Xbox360. It's basically starting a new generation of gaming. The Wii has the potential to take gaming to an entirely new level that could not be reached by the PS3 or Xbox360.
I say potential because it all depends on how well the new controller is utilized, althought seeing how Sony is already scrambling to add similar technology to their controller, it looks like Nintendo isn't the only one that thinks the Wii will be a huge success that changes the face of gaming.
Well, the last I heard, '50% better' was a fair description. i.e. CPU/GPU are roughly 50% faster. I think there's 2-3 times as much RAM than the GC. All unofficial, of course. If that counts as 'much more powerful', I don't know, especially if you're looking at 360/PS3 hardware in comparison.
But don't get me wrong - I'm looking forward to Mario Galaxy and waving my Wii wand around :)
If Nintendo is smart they will aim for and hit the $199.00 target price and kick the ever living crap out of the PS3 and Xbox360. If they are also able to keep controls on the game prices like they have with the DS they will solidify their top spot like they did with the DS versus the PSP.
Nintendo is not stupid, they know there are many MANY more people that can and will part with $199.00 per console and $39-$49.00 per game than the Xbox360 and it's insane game pricing currently has. and with the PS3 rumored to have games near the $85.00 mark there will be no competition at all.
If you get your gamers buying a game or two weekly you get much more money out of them than the 1 game every month or two you get with the high prices of the competition.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
For those of us who only mildly follow the video game world, how is bringing American developers to the console market a bad thing?
"Oh dear, she's stuck in an infinite loop and he's an idiot" -Prof. Farnsworth (Futurama)
You are beyond help if you honestly think Sony usually behaves better as a corporate entity. Sheesh. Innovate, Sony????? 25 yrs ago maybe, then again maybe not. Since then they've done nothing but lag in product development and innovate in methods to keep the buying public captive. Hell they weren't that innovative in there failed root kit attempt.
Why do people keep trotting out those ebay prices, as if they were statistically significant? How many people actually paid $700 for their $400 hardware? 1000, out of 3,000,000 so far, if that? 0.03% isn't much of a market.
If Sony were to launch at a price that wasn't artificially low, they'd have an extremely disappointing launch and a consumer backlash that would make the current price flap look like a raised eyebrow.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
I agree, you do get alot in the PS3.
:)
It is:
1. PSOne game player (yes for us who still love playing old psx games, hey gran turismo 2 is still one hellofa game.
2. PS2 game player (the amount of A+ titles for the PS2 library is above and beyond probably any video game system that ever existed so far)
3. PS3 game player
4. cd player
5. dvd movie player
6. hi-def bluray movie player
7. wifi networking entertainment hub
that is alot. the sheer amount of games from the entire playstation library is staggering, and it looks like sony will always make their next gen system backwards compatible.