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Yahoo Rejects Microsoft Search Offer

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the unfriendly-business dept.

mytrip writes to mention a Financial Times article detailing Microsoft's apparent interest in Yahoo!, and Yahoo!'s rude reaction to their interest. From the article: "The fight is on between the three internet search titans, after Yahoo's Terry Semel laid down the gauntlet to Microsoft saying the software giant's recently elevated ambitions in the search arena were a lost cause. 'My impartial advice to Microsoft is that you have no chance. The search business has been formed,' he said in an interview with the New Yorker's Ken Auletta."

33 of 129 comments (clear)

  1. Google? by biocute · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "The search business has been formed", that was what I heard when Yahoo was teh king, and guess who came in and took over the search business?

    --
    Virtual Betting on Facebook for non-geeks.
    1. Re:Google? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only problem was Yahoo was the king before it became king before the Internet became common place .
      First you take an idea that someone else made and mature it.
      You become the King until the market stabilizes.
      Then someone else takes your place for the stable market.

      It is not fair but that is the way it seems to go.

      Like GUI OS's
      Xerox made the GUI Interface.
      Apple took the idea and matured it.
      Apple becomes the king of GUI
      Then Microsoft comes and takes your ideas and wins for the stable GUI market.

      It is not always about quality it is just about having the charm to get most people to use it over something else.
      Like Google seemed to load a little faster then Yahoo so people with dial-ups used it more. And when the internet became common place and mature a lot of people were still using dialup.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Google? by LegendLength · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only problem was Yahoo was the king before the Internet became common place .

      No I reckon their biggest problem was the amount of crap on their front page.

  2. That quote brings to mind the phrase.... by spiritraveller · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "famous last words"

    And I'm not sure who I dislike more at this point.

    At least Microsoft hasn't been handing political prisoners over to the Chinese government.

    1. Re:That quote brings to mind the phrase.... by muyuubyou · · Score: 2, Informative

      Microsoft just shuts them down:

      http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTI CLE_ID=48199

    2. Re:That quote brings to mind the phrase.... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's a little different from what Yahoo has done. Yahoo gave them a forum to reveal themselves, under the assumption that they were safe to express their opinion. And then sold them out to the authorities. That is far more odious than just shutting down the forum and not providing a phony 'free speech' honeypot.

    3. Re:That quote brings to mind the phrase.... by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      At least Microsoft hasn't been handing political prisoners over to the Chinese government.

      Amnesty International disagrees with you:
      An Amnesty International report has cited Microsoft among a clutch of leading computer firms heavily criticised for helping to fuel 'a dramatic rise in the number of people detained or sentenced for internet-related offences'.
      They just didn't get caught as badly as Yahoo did.

      So - feel free to dislike them both.
      --
      There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
  3. That sound bite is gonna come back and bite ya by Irish_Samurai · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "My impartial advice to Microsoft is that you have no chance. The search business has been formed,"

    I dunno, that sounds similar to the boasts made by almost every large company head right before they get their ass handed to them by someone.

    1. Re:That sound bite is gonna come back and bite ya by zuluechopapa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      maybe that quote will be added to the list of such memorables as:
      640k ought to be enough for anyone
      computers of the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons
      and my favorite
      I think there is a world market for maybe five computers

      --
      even the magic 8 ball has an opinion on email clients: Outlook not so good.
  4. So let's see... by meatflower · · Score: 2, Funny

    I hate Yahoo search, I REALLY hate MSN search... If they had combined I may have spontaneously combusted from the new, dangerously high levels of hatred coursing through my veins. That was close.

    1. Re:So let's see... by Hadlock · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For me, personally, it's that I can run a particular search query, and if I don't get the exact results I'm looking for, I know how to tweak it so that google will give me the results I need. I could spend 15 minutes on yahoo tweaking search strings to get the exact page/nugget of info, but Google and I are old friends, he knows exactly what I want, if not the first time, than the second. Yahoo or MSN is often times like asking the crazy guy on the corner for directions to the super market. You'll get the general idea, but there's so much gibberish/noise that it's not worth the trouble hardly.
       
      Also: I freaking hate getting ads for credit cards every time I search for anything. I have three, thank you, no I don't want/need any more. When I did need another credit card, I went to Google, and searched for lists of the best credit cards, and applied from one of those sites.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
  5. Transcription of dialogue... by terrahertz · · Score: 5, Funny

    MS Rep: Hey baby, how 'bout lettin' big daddy in on a piece o' that action?
    Y! Rep: Oh no you dit'in! Oh no you dit'in! (gesticulates the talk-to-the-hand)

    --
    Slashdot? Oh, I just read it for the articles.
  6. Stupid by nagora · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It may be that Yahoo's search engine is better than MS's (just as a kick in the balls is better than being shot in the head) but to say that the world's richest company has no chance in any field just shows that the speaker is an idiot.

    TWW

    --
    "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
  7. My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google by guacamole · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Be very afraid. One thing that sets Microsoft apart from many of its competitors is persistence when it comes to products and technologies that are important to Microsoft's core business. Add to that the fact that MS has a huge multi-billion $$ war chest and their dominant position in the operating systems and web browsers and you see that they have not only the will but also the resources to be persistent. This battle won't be over any time soon.

    1. Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google by fireboy1919 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's probably true. But I can't help but thinking that unlike every other problem Microsoft has dealt with, search is different.

      Search is hard.

      Look at every other product that Microsoft made. It doesn't really require any genius-level intuition to solve or anything like that. It's ordinary, straightforward implementations that are being done. Back in the day it would have taken a genius, but Microsoft got to borrow ideas that have been published by other people. Further, they don't even do it well. Their primary concern is getting it done and filling it with lots of features. That's not going to work for search.

      I would put it to you that it is very difficult to come up with a way of doing something that works well when the thing you want to do is hard, and that, in general, throwing money at it doesn't help.

      If you are to prove to me that Microsoft's giagantinormous size is going to do it for them, then tell me about their track-record of genius.

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    2. Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google by twohorse · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Add to that the fact that MS has a huge multi-billion $$ war chest and their dominant position in the operating systems and web browsers and you see that they have not only the will but also the resources to be persistent

      Thats exactly why Yahoo have decided not to do a deal with Microsoft at this time. Any search engine with a significant share of the market will see whats happened to Microsoft "partners" in the past. If MS get a foothold, next step for them will be to use their desktop leverage, partners not included.

    3. Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google by oztiks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      MS has made a big deal about how they are going to invest in R&D but just like any IT related industry the day for absorbing customer attraction is over. Google has made its money, now they are big and successful and there isnt a damn thing MS can do about it.

      Just like the fact the general market has chosen to use Windows the general market has chosen Google to search with. It doesnt really matter if you have a MSN search tool in the corner of your address bar because at the end of the day even myself who has the FF google search box and the google toolbar i still find myself typing in the web address. Further to that IE's default homepage is MSN and still a click of a button and i can default it too google anyway.

      Too many companys depend on adwords to successfully run their business and too many professionals in the industry sell Google Adwords Management as a product, more so Adsense is bloody everywhere. As a result its built Google to be a very lucrative business even more funnier which is what i think MS is really crapped off about is that Google was smarter with this dispursal of stock and ownership. MS relied too much of other investors once it made itself a public company even though they are bigger they've spread their stock ownership alot thinner then Google has.

      And why is this you ask? Simple, Google is still bloody huge but they dont need offices all around the world to operate and they dont require to run support desks or create agreements of hardware developers, and what it all boils down to is their system is of making money is SIMPLE much much simpler then the way Microsoft makes its money.

      Simplicity is the name of the game and the core of any good business. Because the similar it is to make a dallor the better, then all you do is replicate it a billion times to make a billion dallors. Google's way of making money is 100x simpler then Microsofts way. Again the general market is now hooked on it they wont let it go, of course 5% to 10% here or there might change because of some well played strategies but at the end of the day you'll never have the Google or Yahoo customerbase just go "I'll stick with MSN from now on" just wont happen.

      Just like the Windows and Linux choice or your preference in cars and favorite perfume/calone.

    4. Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I actually disagree with the premise that "search is hard". Search at its core is exceedingly simple. Scaling this can get a bit tricky, but that has really already been solved by all current major search engines. The hard part I assume you mean is the filtering and ranking of results. Even that isn't some magic vodoo anymore. There are many well known tools accomplishing this. From from more complex topics like Bayesian filtering, to simple use of web statistics, and even "trust measures" (if the New York Times has a direct link to a domains page than that domain is probably reputable, etc). Search as it is today really isn't rocket science. Now web page spammers are always trying to circumvent these algorithims to get thier pages posted higher, but the always changing nature of this makes this just a big a problem for established search providers as start-ups basically.

      Now I default to Google and personally prefer Google, but there are certainly times I cannot find what I'm looking for so go to another engine and find it easily (the reverse is also true in many cases). The point is, there isn't some huge technological advantage any one of the big three search providers have over the others at this point. I wouldn't want to say they are all equal, but I'd certainly feel safe they are all very similar in results.

      I could probably switch to Yahoo or MSN search tomorrow and not really notice the difference. The biggest issue at this point is the brand. Google has a big lead in that most people are just used to using it and of course "googling" being in the vernacular doesn't hurt. What is required to take that leadership position is either going to be one of the other engines have a major break through on the tech side to be able to offer a superior search (not likely at least in the short term) or they will have to do lots of advertising, partnering, etc, etc to get thier service in the public concience as much or more than Google's. And this is where MS$ money comes in. They are VERY good at the business of tech. They have a history of making great partnership deals which REALLY boost thier products and of course the ability (cash) to basically have every commerical ever on TV be an ad for MSN search if they so choose doesn't hurt.

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
    5. Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google by fireboy1919 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Scaling this can get a bit tricky, but that has really already been solved by all current major search engines.

      And here is the premise with which we disagree.

      Google does a good job, but it's difficult to find what you're looking for in any of the other major search engines.

      And I'm positive you can't get results like theirs with simple bayesian filtering.

      What you don't seem to be grasping is that search is artificial intelligence. It's saying "given these search parameters, what am I REALLY looking to find?"

      Here's a really good example I just thought up. Try looking for "explosive materials."

      That's a very general subject - I could be looking for where to buy them, or what they are, or the definition, or... What I would probably like to get back with such a general subject on that are authoritative pages that can point me to information about them so that I can narrow down my interest. This would be the logical thing to get back if your search engine is smart enough not to just search for the words "explosive" and "materials."

      So take a look at the difference in results between MSN and Google. The top pages on Google are what I would want - references that talk about explosives in general. MSN's look suspiciously like someone went through and found all the places that the words "explosive" and "materials" exist.

      This level of specificity thing is just one area that shows how Google is winning. Search is the greatest attempt at artificial intelligence currently in existence, and a problem that is currently so open-ended and complex that it makes rocket science look like lego assembly.

      But don't take my word for it. Go pick up a few books on AI. There are many, many problems related to search still unsolved.

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    6. Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google by jthill · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I could probably switch to Yahoo or MSN search tomorrow and not really notice the difference.
      You'll look long and hard for a slow-loading Google page. I suppose you could bloat your own. You won't find even PNGs, let alone blinking banners or flash. What happens when you follow that nice "More..." button on MSN and Yahoo? After Google, theirs just seem lame. Got a box that will run Google Earth? Google do awe-inspiring things and give them away. Sure they're going to make money. That's how they stay in business. But they make money with people who use their tools to make money, and they know, no matter how counterintuitive it seems, that those aren't their most important customers. They treat all their customers right. The guys at Yahoo sorta get it. Microsoft ... well:
      They have a history of making great partnership deals which REALLY boost thier products
      They seem to be running out of willing partners. I wonder how that happened?
      --
      As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
    7. Re:My humble advise to Yahoo! and Google by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 2, Informative

      You'll look long and hard for a slow-loading Google page. I suppose you could bloat your own. You won't find even PNGs, let alone blinking banners or flash.

      Check out these if you haven't for awhile MSN and Yahoo. I don't think you'll see anything like your talking about.

      I certainly love Google and thier practices, but I was just speaking about search technology and how they are basically identical (see my post to reply just before yours).

      BTW, don't talk about Google Earth like that, your just asking for people to tell you all about how Microsoft released TerraServer to do the same thing (yes without the Web2.0 yumminess) almost a decade before Google even existed ;-)

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
  8. Really why should they? by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    don't see what Yahoo really has to gain with MSN? I like google so I use it. My Girl Friend prefers Yahoo. And I am sure someone out there prefers MSN. But most of the sites they all have. If I find one search method is becoming to tedious then I use an other one. Combining Yahoo and MSN would hurt Yahoo. First there is the people who just don't use MS. Stuff when possible which would be around 10% of the population (Figuring most Linux users and Apple users alternative OS users, and windows users who are afraid of Microsoft dominance but only know windows. ). Yahoo will need to split their advertising dollars with MS. Any software improvements probably wont affect the bottom line. And it will do nothing against Google. Google is a verb in the english language now. When the company branding becomes imbedded in the culture it is difficult to change it. Like Jello and Kleenex other companies can sell similar products but the culture still thinks of the brand name. Going with Yahoo will only benefit MS. And at best Yahoo will loose nothing, but in reality yahoo my loose more.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  9. So.. Yahoo rejects Microsoft. In other news.. by SirFozzie · · Score: 3, Funny

    A non-standard precipitation warning has been issued for the Redmond, WA area, as it is expected to be raining chairs for the next few days, or until Steve Ballmer runs out of furniture..

    --
    People Talking in Movie shows.. people smoking in bed.. people voting republican.. GIVE THEM A BOOT TO THE HEAD!
  10. Pretty obvious stance... by Jugalator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The only search engine with less traffic than Microsoft's is AOL's, and a number of more obscure ones.

    Yahoo is receiving more than twice their traffic, and likely ad revenue potential as well.

    There'd be a lot to win for Microsoft if joining forces with Yahoo, but I'm not sure Yahoo would sacrifice their image. If their managers have any sense, they know it's important to preserve your identity, especially if you're quite far ahead.

    This just looks like a cry for help from Microsoft's side, now that their second (?) "Google Killer" with "Live Search" (a very idiotic name too; why not "Microsoft Search"?) has probably failed just as bad as their updated MSN Search they did a few years back.

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  11. Homepage by therage96 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I predict this will probably appear in the news in the next few weeks.

    "And in a surprising move, Microsoft has chosen to make live.com the default homepage any new Internet Explorer installation."

    Microsoft 1, Yahoo -screwed-

    1. Re:Homepage by The+Mysterious+X · · Score: 2, Informative
      Why is that a problem, since the default page is already msn.com, which has a MS Search right at the top of the page?

      Should be even less of an issue, as the default firefox homepage is google.com

      Should you not also have added to your comment "Firefox 1, yahoo -screwed-"?

  12. Specialize by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While MS might have problems breaking into a full search system, there is a ton of room for a company that can do one thing really well.

    Look at ISO Hunt. They picked an area and really cached in on it.

    My advice to MS: become the best video game search engine out there. It'd be really easy. Have a box to search and buttons to look for reviews, purchace, FAQs/walkthroughs, and cheats.

    Hell, you could pick anything. But do one thing and do it really well.

    --
    I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
  13. Re:Familiar by blakestah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Microsoft's business is Office and Windows. Those make a ton of $$$$.

    Microsoft loses money on almost everything else.

    Every market they've tried to move into and make money on, they've failed.

    They did pretty well against Netscape - giving away the browser seemed to kill their market completely, and thus kill Netscape. But Microsoft didn't make money on that. They lost money and killed a competitor.

    But Google has a different model. They run internet advertising on the back of the best internet search engine. Microsoft cannot give away search for free, Google already does that. They can entice users to use their own search, but users used Google before when they had to find it.

    It is easy to forget pre-Google searches. Every search engine was MILES behind Google. They came along, and all of a sudden you could find what you wanted. They intelligently leveraged that into becoming the Internet advertising leader.

    Still, Microsoft could get a chunk of the market if
    1) the next IE has an MSN search box built in
    2) defaults to MSN homepage
    3) And MSN search rivals Googles in its ability to return good results

    I think that is the looming battle. Microsoft needs more leverage from IE, and a better search engine. And they will spend whatever it takes to get the latter. Google, meanwhile, is probably locking down IP on internet searching as much as they can.

  14. Breaking News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Terry Semel of Yahoo! corporation was found dead this morning. At this point the cause of death is being attributed to a chair leg that is still lodged deeply inside the victim's skull. Police have ruled out accidental death and are compiling a list of suspects.

  15. How are you gentlemen by Dachannien · · Score: 5, Funny

    My impartial advice to Microsoft is that you have no chance,' [Yahoo's Terry Semel] said.

    When asked for comment, Google's representative, CATS, said, "Ohhh, no, no, no. All your search are belong to us."

  16. Bull by slashmojo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Bull, meet red rag..

  17. Re:RTFC by joeykiller · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You might say Microsoft's good at tedious, but you have to hand it to them: This time they're really trying something new. Where the other search engines tries to achieve quality and relevance trough variations of link cardinality, anchor text, page rank (how many and how highly valued pages links to a page), etc., Microsoft's trying neural networks and some kind of "artificial intelligence".

    So far MSN Search/Windows Live Search is worst of the three big players when it comes to relevance. But they're not too bad, either, and I think there's been a lot of improvement since they launched their beta last year (the beta was incredibly bad). If this "self learning" idea works out, MSN Search very well could become the best engine of them all.

    See http://www.searchenginejournal.com/?p=2273 (Search Engine Watch) and http://blogs.msdn.com/msnsearch/archive/2005/10/22 /483846.aspx (Robert Scoble's video inteview with the guys behind the search engine).

    I'd also like to point out that relevance is a subjective matter, and sometimes the correct answer to a query might not come from the web index at all. Microsoft already emphasizes answers from Encarta when suitable (Google and Yahoo is doing similar things), as seen in this example: http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=what+is+chimp anzee&FORM=QBRE

    I think we'll see more similar stuff from MSN Search in the future. Also, Microsoft seems to be the only one interested in experimenting with the search interface on a major service, as can bee seen on their live.com site -- see http://www.live.com/#q=what%20is%20chimpanzee&offs et=1 and the image search http://www.live.com/#q=chimpanzee&scope=images&lod =2&page=results for examples.

    (Yahoo also has an interesting interface experiment going on an obscure part of an almost forgotten search engine: http://livesearch.alltheweb.com/)

    My point is quite simply that what they're doing may be tedious, but this time they're also trying some fresh ideas.

  18. Re:lets be serious here by rossifer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone really doubt that MS can (and will) scream ahead of Yahoo in market share in the coming years?

    Yes. I live down the street from their new office in Santa Monica. They're competing well with Google on recruiting the sharpest people from other regional employers. Including three of my new neighbors who recently moved down here from Seattle.

    Google isn't the only one successfully recruiting hot-shit developers from MS.

    Regards,
    Ross