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Blizzard, Square/Enix Ban Yet More Farmers
Eurogamer has the news that both Blizzard and Square/Enix have banned another batch of players for farming. The number of accounts, and the amount of money removed from the economy, is astonishing. From the article: "According to the World of Warcraft website, some 30,000 accounts were banned last month - and, as a result, more than 30 million gold were removed from the economy across all realms ... Based on the results of this investigation, more than 250 [FFXI] accounts among those found to be involved in large-scale RMT operations have been terminated... Thanks to these measures, more than 250 billion gil has been removed from circulation."
It beats subsidizing them. Maybe our government should be taking notes.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Wait, since when did Blizzard and Square/Enix merge? (Also, isn't it "Square-Enix"?)
Anyway...
I have to love the subtle order of magnitude in accounts banned. WoW bans 30,000 accounts out of 6 million, or about 0.5% of total accounts. Assuming Square-Enix banned the same percentage, they have a total of 50,000 accounts.
Now, I know that Square-Enix's MMORPG isn't quite as popular as World of Warcarft, but I'm going to guess that's more of an indication that Blizzard is being more proactive in their banning of cheaters than Square-Enix is.
Now, if only we could turn off the farmers at the Federal Reserve and stop inflation in the "real" world.
Visualize banned Greenspan.
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Both FFXI and WoW are doing a good job at cleaning up farmers accounts right now, but that only fixes part of the problem. These farmers have introduced a ton of new gold into the economies that isn't easily removed. FFXI raised the % of money the Auction House takes from items, so they are slowly removing money that way. While WoW has a small cover for AH purchaes, and you have to deal with repair costs as well.
There is no fast fix at this point, but closing accounts is a good start. I hope they keep up the good work, and hope even more to stop seeing ads to buy gold and gil.
Its not what it is, its something else.
It's interesting to note that removing that vast amount of gold will actually help the economy in WoW (I can't testify to FFXI as I don't play it). It's directly analagous to decreasing the money supply in an over-inflated capitalist market - with the added twist that the money being removed is the money that belongs to the percentage of the population that has a vast amount of wealth in excess of the average.
In short, prices drop, and the "poverty line" is lowered drastically.
There were a large group of unguilded Rogues levelling up against Ogres in the Badlands just a few days ago. There was so many for a while that we couldn't do any quests involving killing those Ogres, it was totally camped. (Its empty now, they got enough levels and moved on.)
This type of action is largely pointless. They've slowed down the farmers for a little while, but they just level new accounts and go back to it. Meanwhile Blizzard is making more things that require Arcanite, which is probably the single most farmed resource on the entire server. That will just drive prices up and increase the pool of people who say "screw it" and go buy gold from some farming operation, spawning more farmers.
If they actually want to do something about this, they need to reduce the need to buy gold to get anything done in a reasonable timeframe, and/or start banning people who BUY gold. They're the problem anyway.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
The sudden drop in China's stock prices, and the ripple on the world economy, is suddenly explained.
Nice Job, Bliz...
You can get 15 minutes of fame, but you can go down in history for infamy.
If people aren't buying and selling items for real cash, then in reality people don't want or need the items in game. When people don't want or need items in your game, there's nothing they're playing for and your game will go bust soon. Its a trend I've watched over several MMORPGS. Players complain about people that farm for gold, but I don't see the big deal.
God spoke to me.
It wasn't defined the article. I had to use Google. RMT = "Real Money Trading."
Am I the only one who thinks of Ah-nold's opening line in "The Last Action Hero?"
"You want to be a fahmer? Here, I give you a couple of ache-ers!"
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
This is a publicity stunt. They took more than 30 million gold out of the economy from every server? I have news for you, there's right around 170 servers worldwide. That means around 175,000 gold per server. That is a incredibly miniscule part of each server's economy, that is it laughable. Also, within one week almost all of those banned accounts will be back and max level.
Removing 30k farmers from WoW removed 30M gold. That is an average of 1000 gold each (and most would have been below the average). 1000 gold takes about 50 hours to farm, give or take 50% depending on the farmer. This breaks down to each banned account costing the farm[er/ing company]:
$ 30 for a WoW account key
$120 for the lost gold itself
$ 50 for 2 people * $1/hr * 25 hours to level up a character
$ 50 for 50 hours to farm the gold
----
$250 total
Obviously the $/hr rate is an overestimate, but the gold exchange rate and cost of a WoW key make up the majority of this estimate. At a minimum the total is $160.
So, this is a net hit to the farming companies of $250 * 30k = $7.5M.
All in all, a sizable blow. Unfortunately it will really only hurt the solo farmers, the guys doing it for a few extra bucks from their home. For a very large farming operation this is only a setback of about 2 weeks (100 man hours per banning) in terms of profit.
I have reported every one that comes by. I know they're from low-level, flak charecters, but I never see them again (I'll throw the advertisers up on the 'friends' list to better see if I'm going to report a real farmer or not). I usually get an automatic 'thanks.' It may not do much, but if it makes items at the AH cheaper, I'm all for it. Now if only I had enough Gold for my mount...
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
Implement a trading system that allows players to set a price for or hold auctions on their items in-game. Keep players' identities hidden so that all deals between sellers and buyers are conducted on an anonymous basis. All interplayer item exchanges are to be conducted through this anonymous marketplace.
Downside: You won't be able to chuck old/unneeded items on the ground or at your friends, only delete them or liquidate them.
Upside: Harvesting gold loses its profitability in the real world, because virtual items can't be sold for real money. Thus harvesting is greatly reduced.
I don't know how other Blizzard players feel about this, but I'd gladly trade my ability to toss items at my friends for a virtual economy that might not fall apart immidiately.
P.S. Come to think of it, the game might be more enjoyable simply by merit of not ever recieving hand-me-down items. The sense of achievement and respect among kickass characters would be all the greater because it will be known that everyone arrived at virtual greatness through their own ingenuity and perseverance.
Wikipedia has more info on Farming (gaming):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer_(gaming)
"The last thing I want to do after working all day doing borning work is to come home and end up playing a borning game where I have to spend a 100+ hours to get a half way decent character that can do somewhat fun quests."
I think the part that you don't understand is that there are "somewhat fun quests" available right from the start, and more become available as you progress through the game. It's not fifty levels of beating up rats followed by a sudden transition to some mystical, enjoyable "end-game", no matter what the whiny kids on the forums say.
Why do farmers exist? Because people are willing to pay cash for in game stuff. Why do people willingly spend money for something they could technically get themselves? Because they don't want to do it themselves.
"Hold a second. That's like saying I buy Castlevania and then hire someone to play it for me so I can do the end boss fight. That makes no sense."
Yup. We're getting closer to the problem. There are actually people who PAY money to NOT HAVE TO play the game. Now, when a game has parts that are so "boring" that it's no fun to do them, the problem starts with the game, not the farmer. The farmer is actually more or less an effect. Not the cause (he's the cause for other problems with the game, we're getting into a circle here).
In a good game, it should not even cross your mind that you want to bypass parts of it. It should be interesting to do just that what is bypassed.
It's not only a problem of WoW, that problem can be found in almost all MMORPGs. And a MMORPG that solves it will certainly sell well. But as long as there are tedious and boring parts in a MMORPG, farmers will exist.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Now if only I had enough Gold for my mount...
I could help you with this VR money problem, but unfortunatelly I don't seem to be able to log back to my farm.
On Gold and Gollums, an overview into the Gold Farming and Selling Industry
Sure, it's interesting that there are large, organized networks that employ legions of people willing to spend their days harvesting gold, but what really strikes me is the degree to which gold farmers manipulate a server's entire economy.
sig semper tyrannis!
am i seeing this right?
30,000 accounts on wow, removed 30 million gold, thats an average of about 1000 gold per account
on FF its 250 accounts and 250 billion gil?
thats an average of about 1billion gil per account?
holy crap
In a nutshell, inflation occurs in an economy when there is too much cash chasing too few goods. This phenomenon has an inverse called deflation, which occurs when there are too many goods/services chasing too little cash. On the macro level, we haven't seen deflation in America in quite a while, however there have been micro level instances of it. For example, a shitload of wealth was erased a few years ago when the markets crashed. The auto industry was one of several where the effects of deflation were clearly visible. Auto makers had been churning out cars like crazy during the boom. All of sudden a lot of Americans had to tighten there belts forcing car makers to slash prices to clear their inventory.
So why does this make me nervous about my WoW wealth? The answer has to do with my chosen professions - herbalism and alchemy. Assuming that WoW inflation was just a way of life I decided I needed to find a way to earn gold at a rate that equals or outpaces inflation. After all I want my epic mount, good armor and expensive potions. After watching the AH for a while I decided I needed to get into the Arcanite bar transmute business. I then waited for Arcane Crystal (the main ingredient) prices to bottom and sunk every gold I had into purchasing them. Over time I expect my profit margin to be 8-17 gold per Arcanite bar.
If Blizzard's removal of gold triggers inflation Arcane Crystals could hit a new pricing bottom well below their current historical lows. The same with Arcanite Bars. In this situation I would be forced to sell my stock a t a huge loss.
In reality I don't think this will happen. Chinese farmers will find another way to beat the system. Also the amount of gold they took out probably isn't large enough to make an significant impact. At the same time this scenario is still something WoW players should be aware of.
It seems to me a competitor could fraudulently buy up all the 10,000 gold parcels in WoW that IGE has to sell with bogus credit cards, and run them out of business. I don't see how IGE would have any recourse in-game to get their farmed money back. I wonder what that would do to the artificially inflated prices that farming causes. Seems like an opportunity for some black hats to fight fire with fire.
This sig is exempt from disclosure under the privacy Act of 1974.
No. The last time the US didn't have inflation was 1912, before the Federal Reserve was established. As soon as the US Government went on a paper diet, inflation began and has never stopped.
The 1930's did have inflation, because the government put in place legal restrictions against people dropping prices to fit the changing market conditions. As a result, there were surpluses which the government then paid (with printed money) farmers to destroy.
If you want to decry the depression of the 1930's, you might notice that it happened after the establishment of the Federal Reserve, which was touted as a way to prevent the mild recessions that had occurred during the 19th century.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Farm subsidies are possibly the greatest barrier to third world agricultural development there is (that's as true for EU subsidies as anyone else's), but talk about a way to make things worse. So, no, you shouldn't be paying farmers to farm, then buying their excess food to send it, using your vessels, to the third world. You should be paying farmers to manage the countryside, and buying food aid as close to famine areas as possible. By all means use it US food to feed the hungry in the US, but please, for the sake of the famine-stricken, keep American food out of African mouths.
If the United States were to decide to grow enough food for all the hungry in the entire world (and we could for at least staple foods, we've got plenty of empty farms due to subsidies, etc), then all of the food (not far) beyond what we already distribute would rot in a warehouse waiting to dispursed. It's a sad state of affairs yes, and it's unfortunate that fixing the problems isn't a higher priority for the government or the people, but that's just the way it is.
Also, it takes more than just water and sunshine to make a plant, and with every bit of produce sold off a little bit more of the needed nutrients go with it. By not growing food on a plot of land every year it allows the soil to be revitalized every few years, allowing more food to be grown in the long term.
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Er, you need to do a bit of reading on this. Production-tied farm subsidies are incredibly harmful, more so than regular subsidies. When the market is inundated with food that's free or below the cost of production, it makes everyone not getting subsidies -- such as African farmers -- go out of business.
The difference being that it should be fairly easy to automatically detect unusual large money transfers, plus any conversation that preceded it, plus the levels of those involved, plus the countries that each player hails from. I expect that in itself would provide sufficient evidence in many cases.
The last thing I want to do after working all day doing borning work is to come home and end up playing a borning game where I have to spend a 100+ hours to get a half way decent character
If you find a game boring, don't play it. Instead of throwing away your money to get to the fun part, play a game that you find entertaining. Isn't that the point of it being a game, to be fun?
Until receantly I was a member of a top horde PVP guild (most of the guild has now quit playing). I have no purple items at all. All those that did had only PvP items. None the less we were great at PvP. Had multiple peopel who'd been high warlord, etc. When facing a random group of people, even those with epics, we'd 4 or 5 cap. Against the good alliance PvP guilds it was all tactics. When it was like 10 of us and some random people, and nobody really took leadership, we generally lost. When it was 15 of us and our leader was there, we almost never lost.
Gear helps, but only so much. It really comes down to tactics more than anything. Besides, the best gear in the game is only dropped, not bought. The tier 1 and 2 sets are all high-end raid gear. Even though there are a couple BoE peices, you never see them for sale. The farmers can't farm them. Why? Well you need 40 good people, of diverse classes, working together, and you can only hit each dungeon once a week.
You show me some guy who's bought the best stuff he can with purchased gold, I'll introduce to someone wearing all blues (not me necessiarly) who will kick his ass. The more people you get together, the more true that is. Give me 5 good, trained PvPers against 5 guys who bought a service to level them to 60 and bought their gear, I bet we don't lose a man.
The idea is that the high end gear is to give those people that want to play insane amounts something to work for. It does confer an advantage, at a large cost of time. However unless you've got a real inferority complex, you don't need that. You can play casual and still have fun. Will you get your ass kicked sometimes? Sure, but we all do. No matter how good you are, you find someone better. There's no ultimate trump.
I remember a quite amusing time when 3 epic'd out alliance had killed and were camping our guild master. They were taunting, acting tough, etc. What did he do? Called in his troops of course. Like 10 of us ran in there and just waxed them, and waxed their friends that came to help. They couldn't muster a force to do anything to us, and basically just sat and skulked until we got bored. However that's not because we were ultimate, later that night an alliance guild mopped the floor with us in BGs, a guild that we had beaten in the past.
What it sounds like to me is that you just want to pay money to be better than anyone. You feel that you should be able to buy your way into being powerful. I fail to see the point. Winning in PvP is fun, but hard fights are more fun. If I want to win all the time I can fire up a single player game and just engage all the cheats. For that matter I don't need to do that, I'm better than the AIs. The point of playing against other people is that they can be better than me, much better than me. The can provide a challenge.
If you dont' like the rules, don't play the game.
If you're going to try and subsidize farming, it seems like it would make more sense to make it part of the welfare system: subsidize the purchase of local fresh produce by the poor. Not only would this keep demand for farmers' products higher, it would provide a "bubble-up" source of wealth distribution (versus the trickle-down model), and it would make getting healthier food a more attractive alternative for the poor.
Of course, the trickle-down proponents would probably just prefer giving large handouts to huge corporate farms.