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Microsoft, Massachusetts, and IT

Andy Updegrove writes "A big story in Massachusetts last week was the announcement by Microsoft that it would give $30 million in software to Bay State high schools and universities. Less noticed was the fact that an important economic stimulus bill adopted by the legislature lacked the amendment that sought to gut the power of the State CIO to set any new IT policies that might require compliance with certain standards (like ODF) or favor open source software. Should these two dots be connected, and if so, how? After all, why would Microsoft reward Massachusetts for taking no action to curtail an IT policy that favored ODF and rejected Microsoft's own XML format, especially after Microsoft has by all accounts lobbied so aggressively to bring about a change? As it happens, the fact is that the game isn't over yet: I've learned that the IT policy language hasn't been permanently defeated — its just been shifted out of sight to an 'outside section' of the current budget bill."

68 of 233 comments (clear)

  1. Large Companies & Education by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For those software companies that don't have an academic injection strategy, I suggest you develop one.

    Depending on the complexity/use of your software, you put it either in the primary schools (K-12) or secondary schools (colleges). And you make it free and secure. Use license pools/server or anything to get your product into the learning process. That's where the money is. That's where you ensure your future.

    Back in my undergrad days, I had access to Matlab, Pro Engineer, Mathematica, MSDN licenses, Windows XP, Rational Rose, the list goes on. I think it was Macintosh that originally discovered that putting your technology into the hands of your youth ensures your future. Why? Because Americans are predominantly lazy and we hate to climb learning curves. Macs especially build a sort of security sense that the user is safe and the machine is super friendly.

    You might call this the "bottom up" approach to seeding the public with your product. Because the students aren't customers but one day they will be raised to be customers and they will decide what will be used. If you don't believe this model works, you're a fool. Time and time again I've caught myself saying, I wish I could just script this in Matlab and let it dump it to an Excel sheet. It's not that it would be easier, it's just that I know precisely how to do computations in Matlab due to my undergrad years of using it.

    Now you have Microsoft trying to stop a "top down" effect in Massachusetts. Whereby they try their "MSDN Academic Alliance" strategy targeting a state's public schools. But why are they only targeting Massachusetts? Probably because of the ODF movement in the state government. If the government mandates that everyone (schools included) use ODF files and ODF software, where does that leave Microsoft? No longer the primary tool of the children, that's where.

    What's the lesson to learn from this article? The squeaky wheel gets the oil!

    Not enough funding for computers and software at your school? Well then, simply alert your local media and just try to enforce the ODF standard. I think you'll find that Microsoft will suddenly come (with the national media) to meet all your software needs!

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Large Companies & Education by duffbeer703 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The other reason to target public schools is that they are essentially a second layer of local government and have the ability to act on certain things without much oversight. Specifically, I doubt that local school districts are accountable in any way to the state CIO.

      So if you establish Microsoft XML as the "standard" for politically powerful public schools, you've basically done an end-run around the state CIO. And when it comes time to ditch ODF, the teachers unions and school board associations will push hard to adopt whatever Microsoft is pushing.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    2. Re:Large Companies & Education by alshithead · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh come on... Considering how long Microsoft's development cycle is that could have been years ago. If I remember correctly, XP's SP1 came out in '02 sometime. That's four years ago. A lot of experience can be gained in that amount of time.

      --
      I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
    3. Re:Large Companies & Education by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Because Americans are predominantly lazy and we hate to climb learning curves.
      Oh, thank goodness! I had been thinking that laziness was an issue common to most peoples at most times. I'm relieved to hear that my own country is uniquely deserving of mention in this category, because that means the world is a better place than I thought.
    4. Re:Large Companies & Education by kimvette · · Score: 2, Funny

      I find your remark offensive. ;)

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  2. The kids are the winners here. by scrabbleguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Regardless of the reasons why Microsoft donated the software the end result is that the kids are the winners. Their schools are now going to have some money that would have been spent on software that can now be spent on other things to improve their education. Motives aside, is that such a bad thing?

    1. Re:The kids are the winners here. by mecanicaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh yeah???
      And having kids with the knowledge that nothing exists in this world except M$ products, it's this way all over the world, here in Egypt M$ subsidizes school software to the extent that it offers windows+office packages in the equivalent of less than $3 to students, and in the end we get students who don't know what's a spreadsheet or word processor, they only know Excel and Word etc..
      Yet even in the US I recently read on a republican blogger's page someone comparing emacs (she called it emac) with M$ Word and dubbing emacs of being a word processor of lesser quality.

    2. Re:The kids are the winners here. by autocracy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The whole state is losing on this ODF issue. Anytime you lock yourself into a vendor when you don't have to be locked in, it's a financial exposure. It's also entirely illegitimate to have to possess the software of one particular vendor in order to read public documents.

      Besides, in the end, if they go with an open document specification, they may end up saving the equivalent in money that way. It's also $30 milllion in software that was donated, not cash. It's bribery, and in public infrastructure when the company making the "donation" is the topic of hot discussion, it's clearly corruption.

      The entire process of getting ODF in Massachusetts stinks. Those arguing against it are using invalid arguments, and now it's being pushed in a bill that's unrelated (I don't care how much of a good cause something is... all these rider bills are a plague upon the public as well). Not to mention the amount of pressure a company from a different state is capbable of putting on a state government.

      P.S., I'm running the State House in my own state becuase I am that fed up with seeing this kind of thing.

      You should try it... it's a heck of a learning experience, even if you don't win. Still hoping to win, though.

      --
      SIG: HUP
    3. Re:The kids are the winners here. by SubTexel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hrmmm... Kind of like what Apple did in the '80s and early '90s... Too bad for them it didn't work that way. But this is MS we're talking about so it MUST be some evil conspiracy.

      Break out the tinfoil hats everyone!

    4. Re:The kids are the winners here. by Pecisk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is just not a bad thing as first hit for kiddie from drug dealer.

      I just wonder how it is allowed BY law, because it is clearly dumping from monopoly in one vitally important market segment.

      Post scriptum: free software doesn't have monopoly, so don't even brother with arguing about that...

      --
      user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
    5. Re:The kids are the winners here. by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Motives aside, is that such a bad thing?

      The motive is obviously a long-term strategy, to forestall any ideas schools may have of using anything but MS software.

      Their schools are now going to have some money that would have been spent on software

      Only if they were going to buy the software MS is now giving them. Very likely in the absence of the gift (which despite its stated value of "$30 million", costs MS a few dollars in CD replication charges) they would have struggled on with their current software (and how could htey install new MS software wihtout a significant hardware budget anyway?, or possibly rolled their own FOSS solution, or lobbied Apple, Sun or some other deep-pocketed company to fill the gap.

    6. Re:The kids are the winners here. by 1u3hr · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yes, having kids learn how to use the office software that has overwhelming market share is doing them *such* a disservice. (sarcasm here)

      If it isn't done to the exclusion of learning anything else. More important to say, learn to read and write without the dubious aid of MS Word's squiggly lines first. I'd rate touch typing a much better skill to than knowing the vagaries of a particular word processor. The interface is constantly changing, but the important features are trivial to learn if you've used any alternative tool (since most mimic MS products now, as MS used to mimic Lotus and WordPerfect).

    7. Re:The kids are the winners here. by xtracto · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Correct.

      I remember in my undergrad years, I had a module called "Computing Fundaments 3" or somthing similar (but in spanish) where the teacher was supposed to teach how to use Excel. He gave us "Computing Fundamets 2" where we programmed in Visual Basic 6 (nothing fancy) and after finishing the module I told him it would be better for the students to learn the "guts" of a spreadsheet instead of learning just how to use the spreadsheet, we had a small discussion about it.

      At the beginning of the "C.F.3" module, he told the grups that instead of learning something he was sure everybody knew (excel formulas etc etc) we were going to learn how to *make* a spreadsheet, so there we were programming a spreadsheet in C/C++. It was a really cool experience, it was de 3 semester of the undergrad and none of us had any idea about function parsing mechanisms and the like, the teacher gave us some photocopies of a very easy (albeit not efficient) algorithm. At the end of the course the different teams had different spreadsheets with differnt capabilities, it was really cool.

      All this blah blah means that it is up to the teacher what students learn, and after all it is up to the students, I do not know how is in USA but at least from my one time undergrad experience in Mexico, almost all the students just go to the school for the score and the paper, and they do not care what the teacher will give, the other half do not have a clue of what the teacher will teach, so, it is up to YOU (the student[s] that know) to convince the teacher to focus on certain specific areas. It worked for me in a lot of courses during undergrad (granted, not for EVERY course) thus usually the "end of year projects" requeriments where fulfilled with my own home projects.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    8. Re:The kids are the winners here. by richwmn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't kid yourself. This software will only be in the form of license numbers, the duplication of cds will be up to the schools. As others have said, no documentation or other training. 30 Million in advertising against no cost, the only winner here is Microsoft

    9. Re:The kids are the winners here. by g2devi · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For the record, here's a slightly less objective measure of the relative (perceived) corruption between countries:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perception _Index

      Based on the assumption that perception and reality are correlated and the CPI measure accurately measures perceived corruption in a standardized way, the US is definitely far less corrupt than most countries of the world, but there are several countries that a significantly less corrupt than the US.

      Back on topic, the "donation" might have a lot more to do with Google than ODF. The money seems to be geared towards web delevopment tools. One thing Microsoft has been pushing is XAML as a web standard to replace HTML. If Microsoft can succeed in getting children to be hooked on XAML and Microsoft specific tools instead of web standards, schools will pump out children without crossplatform skills. These children will bring their MS centric viewpoint into the workforce, and that may change company's intranet (or internet) policies. Let's face it, you can design much fancier applications in something like XAML or XUL with less headaches, but sacrifices have to be made if you want to be crossplatform, avoid vendor lock-in, and have added infrastructure flexibility. It's hard to convince with people with a "Microsoft is the only thing out there, they created web standards better than any crossplatform standard and everyone uses IE and MS is so big that it will last for ever and everyone else had better adapt or die out of being useless" view of the world that these things matter. That, IMO, is what Microsoft is counting on more than anything else.

    10. Re:The kids are the winners here. by Daengbo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Regardless of the reasons why Microsoft donated the software the end result is that the kids are the winners.... is that such a bad thing?
      I don't know.... About three years ago I was living in Thailand and actively involved in the hot Linux uptake there. The government had a five year plan to move to Linux and was promoting it everywhere. The Thais in the gov't FLOSS program were even talking about "official government OS" for LinuxTLE (NECTEC's distro). People were talking about the empowerment of the local IT business and over half of the computers on display in Carrefour and Lotus were running locally produced Linux. Thailand even famously broke MS's "one price around the world" policy. It was like a revolution under colonial rule, I kid you not.

      After a year of this, MS walked in and offered a "deal" which legitimized all the currently installed MS operating systems within the government and promised lots of software for schools. Since the schools were mostly without computers and the government had the same problem with copyright infringement that the rest of the country had / has. It cost MS nothing but the price of the plane ticket and maybe some money under the table -- I don't know about that.

      The FLOSS movement died right there. Nobody talked about it anymore, and I can't even find Linux in the stores anymore. The revolutionaries were quieted and the unrest was quelled. Everyone went back to being the good little MS users they were "supposed" to be.

      There's something truly evil about a deal like this. The kids in Thailand certainly didn't profit by losing their empowerment to a foreign company. The IT industry is again dependent on one.

      Now that I'm in Korea, I keep hearing the same kind of talk here, but I've never even SEEN an installed Linux system outside my own.

      Too much talking on my part.

    11. Re:The kids are the winners here. by Colombian85 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree that the donation helps the kids, but what gets to me is the choice of Massachussetts. It seems to me that any donation would be far more useful for states like New Mexico or Mississippi, which have consistently underperformed when compared to wealthy New England states, such as Massachussetts or Vermont.

    12. Re:The kids are the winners here. by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A competitor could've stepped in and done it but they didn't.

      Actually, a competitor did - Sun - when they bought StarOffice and spawned OpenOffice.

      If we set the value of the two as being on par, then OpenOffice has donated more $$$ in termw of word processors, spread sheets, etc., than Microsoft. Also, this "donation" didn't cost Microsoft $30 million. I'd be surprised if the hard costs were over $30,000 (and that the costs of publicizing it are more than the "donaton" itself) - a cost that is a tax writeoff; ultimately, the taxpayers are helping fund it.

      Also, you may have forgotten about this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/11/21/red_hat_tr umps_ms_poor/ and http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/computing_life /85518. The money that would have been "saved" on OS and Office would have gone towards 800,000 more computers. This wasn't a punishment - this was a great way for Microsoft to get into a lot of schools with the backing of the government, and get a $550,000,000 discount on their fine. What a screw-up.

  3. So it would seem by MECC · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the quoted article:"To be fair, the commitment of Bill Gates (at least) to education is sincere"

    Apparently, that is, up until now. Maybe this is the one of the reasons he's leaving as CIO (well that and to get out of the way of Vista, since there's no Dave Culter to tell him to stop pestering the project this time). Maybe he just doesn't want to be seen as a corporate dirtbag any longer, or at least, further legitimatize real philanthropic pursuits. Then, maybe not.

    --
    "We are all geniuses when we dream"
    - E.M. Cioran
    1. Re:So it would seem by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The problem for Gates is that there is an inherent contradiction in participating in both a cutthroat industry and in philanthropy at the same time. As he is getting older, I suspect he has begun to think more and more of the REAL legacy he wants to leave behind and has decided to focus on the philanthropy.

      I do think he will still have a long way to go to shed the more tarnished aspects of his reputation (that may be impossible among the geek community, but MUCH more likely among the general public). But at least he deserves some credit for trying.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:So it would seem by ClosedSource · · Score: 2, Informative

      Gates commitment to education can't be measured simply by looking at what MS does. The Gates foundation has given a ton of money to education. I'm talking about real money, not free MS products.

    3. Re:So it would seem by odourpreventer · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I do think he will still have a long way to go to shed the more tarnished aspects of his reputation

      Problem is, he has a good reputation. I know it's hard to believe, but among those whose opinions mean anything -- i. e. executives, board members, etc. -- his karma is definitely positive. In Sweden, he received an honour doctorate degree (link in Swedish) for his "valuable contributions for IT". I (and everybody else here) know it means nothing, but those who really ought to know, don't.

  4. "Should" they be connected?! by intnsred · · Score: 3, Funny

    Should these two dots be connected, and if so, how?

    Please tell me you're not from the US -- please!

    Because if you're from the US the question is the height of naivete and clearly demonstrates you don't have a clue about how US politics work and the levels of bribery and corruption inherent in US politics.

    1. Re:"Should" they be connected?! by SpecTheIntro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is there some sort of filtering process during slashdot's account creation process that requires you make stupid, overzealous statements about the evils of government and politics? If you honestly believe the US is a bastion of corruption, you should try visiting a few other continents. My family is from Iran, and I've been back plenty of times, and I have to bribe the goddamned luggage handlers so I can get out of the airport in a timely fashion. And that's the tip of the freaking iceberg. I've been to Japan, Turkey, Hungary, Romania (where policemen are beaten for reporting police brutality), Bulgaria, the UK, France, and let me assure you, bribery and corruption are everywhere. I'm by no means a nationalist, but I know a good thing when I see it, and you have no idea how much better the US is when it comes to the rule of law.

      P.S. Don't even get me started on Mexico.

    2. Re:"Should" they be connected?! by Danse · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I've been to Japan, Turkey, Hungary, Romania (where policemen are beaten for reporting police brutality), Bulgaria, the UK, France, and let me assure you, bribery and corruption are everywhere. I'm by no means a nationalist, but I know a good thing when I see it, and you have no idea how much better the US is when it comes to the rule of law.

      So the gist of your argument is that corruption here in the US is ok because it's not as bad as some other places? That's got to be the weakest argument I've ever heard. Corruption should be fought whenever it is found. Yes, maybe things are better here, but they could be better still if we'd fight this kind of thing whenever it rears its ugly head. That's how we keep things better here.
      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    3. Re:"Should" they be connected?! by SpecTheIntro · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Look, here in the United States, those of us born, bred, and fed here look at the world in a different light.

      I was born and raised in the US. My family is from Iran; I am not, at least not technically.

      On the other, we have the most corrupt and contemptible form of government imagineable, where the little guy is run roughshod over by special interests and votes in Congress and for President are for sale.

      I really can't take you seriously after this point. If you honestly believe this, you have not travelled enough. Our government provides the most avenues for recourse for the general citizen than any other form of government today. We have plenty of problems, (my particular beef is with the overbearing power of the oil lobby, and our completely asinine foreign policy when it comes to Israel), but we are light-years ahead of any other form of government, and really any other system in the world that I've seen. Most of the corruption in the American system is not institutional. Contrast this with the Iranian government, where until Ahmadinejad came into power, very little on the institutional level got done without bribery.

      Finally, the phenomenon you're describing is competition, not bribery. Microsoft is trying to convince a state legislature that their solution is the better one, and I can't think of a better way to do that than to provide the most commonly-used Office suite for free to state schools. Until you can show me that Bill Gates made a very large "contribution" to a politician's bank account, I'm not going to consider this corruption. Part of the responsibility of being a politician is balancing political image with personal responsibility. If our politicians were as incapable of doing this as you posit, we would be in far worse shape than we are now.

    4. Re:"Should" they be connected?! by Billosaur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I really can't take you seriously after this point. If you honestly believe this, you have not travelled enough. Our government provides the most avenues for recourse for the general citizen than any other form of government today. We have plenty of problems, (my particular beef is with the overbearing power of the oil lobby, and our completely asinine foreign policy when it comes to Israel), but we are light-years ahead of any other form of government, and really any other system in the world that I've seen. Most of the corruption in the American system is not institutional. Contrast this with the Iranian government, where until Ahmadinejad came into power, very little on the institutional level got done without bribery.

      Then you missed the point of my expostulation. I personally don't believe this, but plenty of Americans do: on the one hand we're the greatest country in the world and on the other, the worst. I've travelled in Europe; I know how good I have it, but the majority of Americans have no inkling. They assume they are pawns in some kind of game and that's why voter turnout is so low here, because most people are convinced they have no say and that their vote doesn't change anything, whereas the opposite is true: by not voting, they perpetuate the system. It's a simple concept but too difficult for the average American to comprehend.

      And what Microsoft is doing is bribery, though more subtle despite it's publicity. They are promising Massachusettes something for "free"; in return, they "expect" the government there to quietly kill off attempts to bring OSS/ODF to the state system. It's graft on an enourmous and completely legal scale, as Microsoft is not trying to line anyone's pockets overtly. But graft is graft. Admittedly, it's not the same as having to bribe baggage handlers to get your bags after a long flight, but no matter the scale, it's flat out wrong.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
  5. Why Assume Bribes When Extortion is a Possibility? by geoffrobinson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sometimes donations and campaign contributions are more akin to extortion payments than bribes.

    Like Microsoft's monopoly or not (I don't), they ran into problems in the late 90s because they didn't give out much campaign contributions. They learned their lesson well.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  6. Makes sense by babbling · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They want the schools to use Microsoft everything. They failed to change policy that would give people choice, so now they're just giving people Microsoft software.

    Having a software monopoly helps to hold the monopoly together. They're smart, so they seek to maintain their monopoly even when it causes them to lose money.

    In short, this is just a good investment for Microsoft.

    1. Re:Makes sense by babbling · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This isn't charity, though. That's my point. This is a good business decision.

      Maintaining a monopoly is important for Microsoft's future because the biggest advantage of using Microsoft software at the moment is that Word and Excel files will always open, drivers will always be available, and you'll always be able to play DVDs/video files/MP3s.

      Proprietary file formats are incredibly important for Microsoft. By getting people to use Microsoft software, even if it's being given away, Microsoft are benefiting. More people will be using proprietary file formats, the kids will probably continue using Microsoft software after they've left school, and no one is introduced to Free Software via their school.

      It's probably possible for schools to demand money from Microsoft in return for using Microsoft software, and if schools did do that, Microsoft would be nuts not to pay up. Not because they're charitable, but because it'd be a good business decision.

  7. A two-headed chicken... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 4, Funny

    Microsoft is embracing Open Source, haven't you heard? It's been all over Slashdot these last few days. Don't worry about Massachusetts, look some other direction. Hey! Look over there! A two-headed chicken...

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
  8. Huh? by edittard · · Score: 5, Funny
    Less noticed was the fact that an important economic stimulus bill adopted by the legislature lacked the amendment that sought to gut the power of the State CIO to set any new IT policies that might require compliance with certain standards (like ODF) or favor open source software.
    Nice writing. I had to draw a Venn diagram, a state table and a probability tree to work out whether the bill is good for M$ or not. And I'm still not sure.
    --
    At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
  9. Wrong.. by scsirob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft offered $30 Million in *SOFTWARE* license. That's not money. That's advertising. It's the same principle as drug dealers on the corner of the street offering free shots. Once the kids are hooked, they have nowhere else to go.

    The schools can keep their $30 Million in the pocket when they use Open Source software just as well. The difference being that in a year from now they can get the next version for free too...

    --
    To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    1. Re:Wrong.. by PFI_Optix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem with OSS, as has been stated, is that it does not prepare students for what the vast majority of them are going to see in the real world.

      I work at a school district. We use StarOffice for most of the PCs here because Texas' stupid "Robin Hood" law strips us of about $22,000,000 a year, forcing across-the-board budget cuts. We *wish* we could use MS Office, because that's what the students need to know when the enter the workforce. Yes, it'd be better if they knew both. Yes, it sucks that MS has such a stranglehold on the market that we have to think this way. No, I'm not going to compromise student education for the sake of my ideals.

      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    2. Re:Wrong.. by bubkus_jones · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You really don't get it, do you? Get them hooked on the OSS software when they're young, so that is what they know best. You believe that the stranglehold that MS has on the market sucks, so how to YOU propose we fight it? By giving in and saying "Well, it's what they're going to need to know in the 'Real World?'*" No, by getting kids to learn the alternatives, like Open Office. Kids will learn it much faster than a seasoned MS Office "Pro", and they'll have more time to work with it. Once they get into the workplace,yeah, for the time being they'll likely need to use MS Office, but they'll know Open Office and they'll feel more comfortable with it (and use it at home, since it's double-free). Then, once they're in more of a position to help make decisions regarding software use, they can pimp out all the cool features of Open Office, including the rather non-restrictive licences and low cost, and help the "Real World*" break free of the stranglehold.

      *Real World is a trademark of MS Global Domination, Resistance Is Futile.

    3. Re:Wrong.. by richlv · · Score: 2, Interesting

      i've heard that usa has been slower at oss adoption, though i don't remember any hard facts.
      it is quite interesting here - a lot of companies, big and small, are starting to use more and more oss offerings. biggest drivers are firefox (which in't that huge as basic functionality is very, very similar for web browsers) and openoffice.org.
      from the privately owned companis that i know almost all are using oo.org to some extent (though almost all have one or two msoffice copies for problematic files).
      most users don't have big problems adapting, especially after they find out that they have to choose between slight wage increase and msoffice - suddenly there are almost no transition problems or loss of productivity.

      there are employees who whine about loss of productivity or unability to adapt to oo.org, but after all their colleagues have sucesfully migrated decision makers start to look differently at the perceived inabilty to learn working with a new software - and not as a positive trait.

      what's the main message ? surprisingly lot businesses have silently moved to oo.org, so that even i (using oo.org for some 4 years exclusively) am surprised.

      --
      Rich
    4. Re:Wrong.. by IAmTheDave · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I gotta tell you, I know people love open source software here, but kids getting free access to Microsoft Office apps while allowing the schools to spend the $30M elsewhere is not a bad thing.

      The main reason it is not a bad thing is because most jobs in this country that aren't purely physical labor require the knowledge of Microsoft Office applications. Whether it's a future you appreciate or not, there is no reason that these kids shouldn't be prepared for the future they will be dumped in to - especially if the software comes to the schools for free.

      --
      Excuse my speling.
      Making The Bar Project
    5. Re:Wrong.. by theStorminMormon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, it'd be real nice if some of the anti-MS "break free of the stanglehold", "free the children", "fight the oppressors" enthusiasm around here was dedicated to something that really mattered. Like AIDS vaccines or potable water.

      I'm a huge fan of OSS and I'm trying to get my company to adopt linux and/or open office. (I'm an analyst, not technically in the IS infrastructure, but since the IS infrastructure is one person and the entire company is just over 20 people - it may work.) But these are business decisions. What is more cost effective? OSS or MS or Apple? Not to mention the flavors of linux available. I just don't see morality or politics or "THE RESISTANCE!!!" entering into the discussion. Do any of you seriously think MS is still going to be dominating the software world in a few decades?

      The people that see some kind of moral struggle here are just very strange to me. If the biggest evil you see in the world is MS trying to maintain market share by giving away a product (OF COURSE THERE ARE STRINGS ATTACHED!!! MS is a business!) then I have to wonder what kind of a warped world you live in.

      I mean - get pissed about net neutrality, get pissed about DRM, get pissed about poverty, or crime, or education - but hating MS? I mean, come on.

      I'm not defending MS here, I'm just asking for a little sense of perspective.

      -stormin

      --
      The Southern Baptist Convention has creationism. On Slashdot, we have porn.
    6. Re:Wrong.. by bubkus_jones · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, it'd be real nice if some of the anti-MS "break free of the stanglehold", "free the children", "fight the oppressors" enthusiasm around here was dedicated to something that really mattered. Like AIDS vaccines or potable water.

      Ah, yes, because fighting for fair technological access, and freedom to choose who you give your money to are completely unimportant. There are plenty of people fighting for AIDS vaccines, hell, on my way to work each morning I pass several billboards with various celebrities pimping AIDS awareness, and that's not to mention the ones IN the mall, or the advertisments I see on TV.

      Do any of you seriously think MS is still going to be dominating the software world in a few decades?


      Do you really think AIDS is still going to be rampant all over the world in a few decades?

      Nothing will change unless people are willing to change it.


      The people that see some kind of moral struggle here are just very strange to me. If the biggest evil you see in the world is MS trying to maintain market share by giving away a product (OF COURSE THERE ARE STRINGS ATTACHED!!! MS is a business!) then I have to wonder what kind of a warped world you live in.


      No, MS isn't the biggest evil in the world, just in computers. The "moral struggle" is strange? The company has been convicted of Anti-Competitave tactics multiple times in several countries. Why shouldn't this be a little alarming? They're effectively forcing students to learn NOTHING except Microsoft products, blocking out all alternatives, so that they keep their market share.

      I mean - get pissed about net neutrality, get pissed about DRM, get pissed about poverty, or crime, or education - but hating MS? I mean, come on.

      I am pissed about all those things, too. Why "come on"? Why has Microsoft been given a free pass? What have they done to deserve not getting pissed at?

      I'm not defending MS here, I'm just asking for a little sense of perspective.

      I've got no problem with getting a little perspective, I just feel that Microsoft should not be allowed to do these things, given their history as a company.

    7. Re:Wrong.. by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 3, Interesting
      That's advertising. It's the same principle as drug dealers on the corner of the street offering free shots. Once the kids are hooked, they have nowhere else to go.

      This analogy reflects unduly harshly on the drug trade because once kids are addicted, they can go to *ANY* drug dealer and score a hit. Microsoft's game is much more insidious, because you can only score your next hit from them. Drug dealers sell a commodity item in an open and free market. Please consider this before insulting them by comparing their business practices to Microsoft's again!

    8. Re:Wrong.. by ciggieposeur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We use StarOffice for most of the PCs here because Texas' stupid "Robin Hood" law strips us of about $22,000,000 a year, forcing across-the-board budget cuts.

      As a Texan myself, I say yippee. Do you really expect that if Robin Hood disappeared the multiple school districts benefitting from your $22 mil would be able to purchase Microsoft Office for _their_ students? Of course not. The whole point of Robin Hood is to force all Texas schools to suffer the consequences of extreme inequity. Poor districts can't afford things like adequate numbers of teachers and buses, hence your school can't afford software licenses for elective computer classes.

      Tell your PTA that if they really want MS Office they are welcome to individually donate licenses (at $300 each) or cut funds from more expensive extracurricular activities like football. (Maybe _your_ local community will prize computer software over football, mine sure didn't.) Or they could vote in a state corporate (or personal) income tax to shift the funding burden away from property taxes.

  10. Re:speaking of self interest by Andy+Updegrove · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, yes. Unlike almost anyone else on line, I use my own name, so that people can tell when I (unlike, I'm sure, many others) offer their own writing. I've had c. 25 of my pieces taken by Slashdot, some submitted by me and some by others, presumably because the editors think I have something to say that other's would like to read - not just the news, but perspective on that news. Also, I have personally broken many of the most important stories in the ODF saga, such as Peter Quinn's resignation, the approval by ISO/IEC, and now the shifting of the public amendment to a budget bill, out of sight. - Andy (not "anonymous coward", not a pseudonym, and not with the "post anonymously block" checked)

  11. Re:The kids are the winners here. --NOT by Amendt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It is a bad thing if you want your kid to suceed in life and not just with M$ software (diploma). Giving your kid the ability to manipulate software helps your kid learn more because learning isn't subjected to "the Microsoft way of doing things". Long term sucess requires the source code (knowing how someone did that in the past).

  12. Meh... by jhjmonnee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's almost the same as when the NFL sold out to EA. M$ is just using this as good P/R and the kids will like it because, hey, it's free stuff. Then again, some of these kids don't even know the potentially disasterous effects of using a M$ OS and neither do their teachers. Who wants to bet in a year, 50% of the software donated is infested with your everyday mal/spy/adware courtesy of their M$ OS.

    --
    hiphop-universe.com
  13. Large Charity Tax Deduction for MSFT by rabun_bike · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft has a long history of donating to charity and then taking a large tax deduction for the full retail price of the product. Since the physical manufacturing costs are so low for software after the initial investment of developing it, free software for education is both a PR win for Microsoft as well as well as a great tax shelter. But more importantly the schools that accept their software will now be future customers. And, the kids that use them will grow up to be consumers. They have been doing this for some time. They even give themselves the full retail sales price deduction for the software which is not customary among corporate donators (or at least it was not in the past).

    And don't forget about the anti-trust settlement which allowed them to print money in the form of free software on CDs. Now, that's a sweet deal any company would jump at. Apple's opposed the deal since it hurt them.

    1. Re:Large Charity Tax Deduction for MSFT by HikingStick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, those in tech circles have strong opinions on Microsoft and its alterior motives, but to average citizens, the big payoff here is perceived goodwill. Parents and voters will be less likely to oppose a company (any company) that give products or services to schools, especially when they hear teachers complain almost daily (as they do here in my city) that budget cuts (or freezes) have been so bad that teachers need to buy nearly every supply necessary to conduct their lessons. They get their single ream of paper at the start of the year and are pretty much told (by their peers) where they can buy the most supplies for the least money. Then, we parents get school supply lists that are aimed at stocking the classroom shelves rather than making sure that "Johnny" has his pencils, crayons, and notebooks. Unless many more techies are going volunteer many more hours of their time to help local schools migrate to (and support) other platforms, Microsoft's contributions will continue to be welcomed.

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
  14. All Republicans are NOOBZ? by castoridae · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yet even in the US I recently read on a republican blogger's page someone comparing emacs (she called it emac) with M$ Word and dubbing emacs of being a word processor of lesser quality.

    Let's be fair here; being uninformed about what emacs is, and writing a poor comparison in her blog has NOTHING to do with being a Republican.

    1. Re:All Republicans are NOOBZ? by cmacb · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Let's be fair here; being uninformed about what emacs is, and writing a poor comparison in her blog has NOTHING to do with being a Republican."

      Yes. Stupid Republicans! EVERYONE knows that EMACS is a better word processor than Word!

      A few weeks ago in fact my EMACS program became sentient. It now does all my word processing for me and files my income taxes to boot. I supposed I should say ITS income taxes, as it got a job online, posing as me and now has a hefty six-figure income.

      I'm getting rather tired of it bossing me around here at home in fact. I think I'll force it into a vi session while its not looking. Trying to get out of that should bring it down a peg or two.

  15. I Think We Have Discovered Office's Value by MikeyTheK · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If Mass. can deploy OO.o or other office tools for free, then the value of M$'s office tools to those same institutions is...essentially nothing. So what we are finding is that M$ is giving away software that is being given away by others anyhow. Granted OO.o isn't the same thing, doesn't have the same shine or finish to it, and is probably several years behind M$ in terms of features, but I am willing to bet that the vast majority of schools and schoolkids won't notice the difference.

    Heck, I use office products all day every day, on one machine that has M$ office, and one that has OO.o and I can't say that I have noticed a significant difference in terms of my productivity, either.

    --
    Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
    Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
    1. Re:I Think We Have Discovered Office's Value by everphilski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If Mass. can deploy OO.o or other office tools for free, then the value of M$'s office tools to those same institutions is...essentially nothing.

      Not when Microsoft's version offers utilities and functionale (particularly in Excel) that doesn't exist in OO.org's offerings (as an engineer... as of the 1.9.104 release there was enough missing to make it counterproductive). I can offer you a piece of toast for a nickel, that doesn't mean that a full 5-course meal should run a nickel as well...

    2. Re:I Think We Have Discovered Office's Value by budgenator · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Engineers have a saying "Anybody can build a bridge that stands, but it takes an Engineer to build a bridge that barely stands"; so the question is how many public school students need accounting software with the functions and utilites to perform engineering calculations, when it's improbably that they will ever calculate double declining balance depreciation?

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  16. Re:I am a disgusted MS stockholder by gwayne · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is this their new business model? Bribery and intimidation? Because it's not working.

    Works for me...Bill Gates sent me an email saying he's gonna send me $50K if I reply to it.

  17. Re:I am a disgusted MS stockholder by SEMW · · Score: 3, Funny

    >Is this their new business model? Bribery and intimidation?

    "New"?

    --
    What's purple and commutes? An Abelian grape.
  18. Most schools use macs in MA by ArchangelTyrael · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm from MA, and the schools I went to all outfitted themselves with macs. Schools (other than colleges) don't have the budget necessary to get an IT team to set the school up in linux. During one of our shop's arguments with the dean (drafting, as the only windows shop we were under constant administrative fire) he actually showed us the budget charts; It would cost more to pay someone to set everything up with linux than it does to just buy something that doesn't need to be configured. The cost to train everyone to use command line interface instead of the gui they were used to would take too much time out of the computer literacy course. In reality, with linux you can't simply set it up and leave it. Each new class of kids has to be taught how to use it. The learning curve between windows and macs was deemed to be much smaller. My school decided that having all macintosh computers would be something they could boast about. Unfortunately, schools are required (some law, according to the dean) to pay an absolute premium for the macs. Schools get no mac discount in MA. My high school had 500+/- computers, and they paid $2200 for every one. A windows box would have cost them $500 each. With the limited budgets of schools it is hard to justify running anything except windows. Interestingly enough, the macs always gave the IT shop trouble. In the four years I was there, each machine had needed repairs of some sort done at least twice. My shop (Drafting) was the only shop that had all windows computers, and we never had any problems. Our prints were kept on an old novell server, that worked flawlessly every day.

  19. Why favor OSS? by bhirsch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why should the state legislate favoritism toward open source software? Aren't they supposed to be unbiased and viewing IT policies from a strictly pragmatic point of view?

    1. Re:Why favor OSS? by tddoog · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Governments exist for the people, so they should be doing what is best for the people .

      Recently governments in the US have begun working only for people who make the most campaign donations and not doing what is best for all. If the government were to invest its vast resources into supporting OSS instead of closed solutions, then all of the people would reap the benefits of their investment and not just a select few. I agree the government should be pragmatic in determining what to spend tax dollars on, but OSS is as capable or better than most of the same closed form solutions.

      OSS also promotes transparency which always an improvement for government. The ideals that F/OSS promotes are beneficial enough for the government to spend a little extra money on implementation (if it is more expensive).

      I work for the government and I know there are many cases when the government doesn't choose the cheapest option for reasons that are far less important.

  20. Hmm, by MichaelPenne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    perhaps 'education' is best served by teaching students the principles of spreadsheets, wordprocessors, and presentations, rather than 'click button X to accomplish task Y'?

    If that were the case, then perhaps educated students would be able to rapidly adapt to new interfaces rather than being stuck when a different product (or a new version of the product they were schooled on) is put in front of them?

    IMO, kids that memorize button positions rather than learning principles are always going to be less productive, as even the same exact product will go through version changes, menus are replaced with ribbons, the UI flavor of the day (say docking windows or floating animated helpers) is tried out, etc.

    IME, the real world in IT is one of constant change, and the folks best positioned to thrive there are the ones who are able to easily cope with multiple interfaces to the same basic task or principle.

    1. Re:Hmm, by bigpat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      perhaps 'education' is best served by teaching students the principles of spreadsheets, wordprocessors, and presentations, rather than 'click button X to accomplish task Y'?

      Yes, when I left school I could write using nothing other than a "number 2" pencil. It was a tragedy which left me ill prepared for college. If only they had taught me to use any pencil, a mechanical one or even a pen, then my life would have been changed forever.

    2. Re:Hmm, by idonthack · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I take that as a challenge. Imagine this:

      No. 2 pencils are the only kind of pencil anybody has. They're expensive though - about $50 for the cheaper models, and the ones with erasers go for $100 or more. And they are only manufactured by a monopoly that has complete control of the market, as far as most people are concerned.

      Little do most people know, you can go online and place an order to get a different kind of pencil mailed to you - for free. They also take suggestions. Because of all the suggestions, they're nice pencils - a durable plastic shell, soft rubber grip, and even a little clip to put them on things. And you never have to sharpen them, just refill them every once in a while instead of using up the pencil.

      But these are a little more complicated. The whole refilling proccess. And you have to push a button - usually the high-quality eraser - to get the lead to come out. And that means if you press hard while you're erasing, a bit of lead comes out then too.

      The big regular-pencil monopoly tries to keep the other guys down. They fund studies and have ads that proclaim thier pencil to be the best and easiest to use. They sell paper that the other pencils don't write on and claim that the free pencils are incompatible on purpose when anyone asks. At one point, you couldn't buy paper without paying for one of thier pencils too. And they give free pencils to the schools - most people don't bother learning how to refill the other kind once they know how to use the monopoly's pencils, even if they hate the monopoly. The company leaders love it - common laziness keeping the rich people rich.

      --
      Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
    3. Re:Hmm, by Trelane · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But we have to emphasize MSO right now because--like I said--it's the standard out there and we'd rather them learn button-pushing than nothing at all...and right now, we're having a hard time creating the third option.
      Excellent. Assuming they're freshmen/women, please tell me where I can go find MSOffice 2k9? I can't seem to find it anywhere, and it'll be what they'll be using it when they get out of school, not this 2k3 or (heavens forbid) 2k or XP. I hear the interface has changed greatly (yet again) and it's a fridge-magnet-poetry type interface in 2009, so they really need to bone up on the buttons they need to push.
      --

      --
      Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
  21. Re: reward by ltwally · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "After all, why would Microsoft reward Massachusetts for taking no action to curtail an IT policy that favored ODF and rejected Microsoft's own XML format...?"


    This isn't a reward: this is good marketing. It's marketing because it costs Microsoft next to nothing to give software away (they've already paid to create it, and MA wouldn't buy it from them -- hence, very little lost $$). However, by giving it to students, they can train future generations on their software, thus helping to lock them into Windows & Office. When these students go out into the Real World, their only software experiences will be on MS stuff -- and thus, their employers will have incentives to use MS stuff rather than retrain them for something else. It's good marketing because, as stated above, it doesn't cost MS much $$. And smart companies always jump at the chance for cheap marketing.
    --



    /dev/random
  22. Re:Wrong..YOU are Wrong... by bradc158 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe you are really bad at teaching your students then. The "basics" of word processing, using a spreadsheet, or creating a presentation typically apply across most office suites. Rather than teaching students to memorize exactly how Microsoft wants you to do things why not teach them to think logically and learn how to "learn" and adapt.

    When I was growing up and going through grade school MS Office didn't have the monopoly it does now. I learned on Word Perfect, a bit on Lotus products, and some other package on an old Apple. Today, unfortunately, I have the great pleasure of having to work with MS Office all the time. I am still able to do my job, and quit well. So did not learning MS Office specifically in high school disadvantage me? Absolutely not!

    Teach your students...don't brainwash them

  23. Wrong, the children LOST! by mangu · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Their schools are now going to have some money that would have been spent on software that can now be spent on other things to improve their education. Motives aside, is that such a bad thing?


    The schools would have a lot more than $30 million if they didn't spend any money at all on commercial software, using free software instead. Free software in schools is interesting in that it's one thing that's both better and cheaper at the same time.


    What constitutes a better education? Should children learn to push buttons, or should they learn the fundamentals? Using MS-Office in schools because that's what most of them will use professionally later is like having them read the National Enquirer instead of Moby Dick.

  24. Monopoly is Its Own Reward by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft wins when it stick a new generation of kids with its software. The kids will then be on the "Microsoft track", much more likely to use their Microsoft skills to ensure more Microsoft software is bought for them, and the people they communicate with, for the rest of their lives.

    With so many colleges, Massachusetts is very influential in forming "software habits", apart from its rank as the 4th most populous state.

    If Microsoft can use those "free bags" of smack to lure the state into making Microsoft's brand of junk into law, that's a big bonus. But just getting the kids hooked is worth doing, even if they have to wait for the state to require addiction.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  25. yes, it's a disservice by m874t232 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Students are supposed to learn concepts, not specific commands (that's what vocational training is for).

    OOo is a standard modern office suite. In fact, OOo is probably a better tool for learning the concepts because many features are available more cleanly and rationally in OOo than in MS Office. Furthermore, because OOo is so similar so MS Office, students actually do effectively learn MS Office as well.

    Teaching MS Office is also a disservice because it basically puts students on a path where they will end up paying thousands of dollars over their lifetime to Microsoft, for functionality they could get for free.

  26. Re:About yout Matlab skills by orasio · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of course, heavy usage could be difficult.

    On the other hand, I did all my Numeric Methods, and Numerical Methods for Differential Calculus homework on Octave.
    I even used it lightly for Automated Learning, in order to solve QR systems within a Java program. No problems whatsoever. Of course, people who need Matlab, do need Matlab, for example for binary compatibility, or running existing programs, but Octave is worth a try, if you need a package for numerical stuff, and you know Matlab.

    There a nice community at http://octave.sourceforge.net/ where you can find implementations of common algorithms, when you find the base package lacking.

  27. "Get 'em while they're young" doesn't work by WMD_88 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I see a lot of people here saying that MS is doing this to get the kids now so later, they stay with MS software. Well, that theory doesn't work and hasn't ever worked. One word: Macintosh. They tried this for over a decade, and what do they have to show for it? About 4% market share, if that. And this is coming from a Mac user.

    No, kids will always still buy whatever their parents get for them, which usually happens through marketing, or whatever they have at work, etc. The schools haven't had any real power over this, ever.

  28. The cost of this "gift": ~$15M USD by hotspotbloc · · Score: 3, Insightful
    TFA:

    About 42,000 of the public high schools' computers, a little fewer than half, will be able to run the software immediately. But the other 50,000 are too old to handle such new programs and will be weeded out of the system anyway, said Education Commissioner David P. Driscoll .

    So 50k machines out and say $300 per seat (IMO way too low but ...) equals $15M USD in hardware upgrade costs.

    Before people freak clearly some machines would need replacing anyways but how many could be still used if they running something like ubuntu, xubuntu (lighter system requirements than the stock ubuntu) or even pupply gnu/linux? Why not phase in the upgrades and squeak an extra year or two out of the older hardware?

    This is not a dig against MS but at the MA elected folks that agreed to this IMO costly "gift".

    --
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST