AOL Tries New Tactic to Keep Customers

Jhon writes "AOL customer Vincent Ferrari tried to cancel his account, but a phone rep wouldn't let him do it. What he got when he tried to cancel his account was a lot of frustration. Now that's customer support!"

Comments

Post megapack

[linvir]

Link to mp3 recording. Putfile's proper site for this requires a proprietary download just to run the file, so have this link instead. They'll probably move it though to make us look at their annoying page.

Rep: I don't know what anybody's done to you...
VF: You're annoying the shit out of me
Rep: Well that goes both ways

Here's link to Vincent's blog. He's been dugg and farked and all the other usuals by now (which is why the file is now on putfile), so be gentle with the poor bastard's bandwidth. He's just come out of a very rough breakup, after all!

Also, this isn't a new tactic at all. That spin isn't in the linked article or anywhere else, so I guess 'Jhon' is to blame.

Opinions on this practice aren't as one-way as you might expect. It's kind of surprising to see a site called 'consumerist.com' reply to

Someone once said "Please cancel my account." I took that at face value and cancelled the account... three weeks later I was fired!

with

Good. You should have been fired.

Pricks.

Re:Post megapack

[humphrm]

A little context here. No sense in including the rest of that quote when it doesn't suit your needs, eh?

Good. You should have been fired. When a customer calls to cancel, it is the company's duty to find out why. Perhaps there does exist a solution the customer was not aware of. Perhaps its just frustration that can be mitigated with some service discounts. However, if these don't work, the customer shouldn't have to argue with the Sphinx to get the service stopped.

Re:Post megapack

[Karth]

Well, here's how it works:

The CEO doesn't care, cause he's got enough money that he doesn't have to, so he sets policy to be, hey, screw you, no refunds.
The vp says, ok, I wanna keep making enough that eventually I won't care, so I need to enforce the policy.
The manager says, ok, well, I need this job, cause I'm not a vp or a ceo, so I need to keep the policy ball rolling.
The employee says, I'm a wage slave who works hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck, so I'll follow the policy.

The ball rolls the other way when the customer says,
"I'll charge it back." The employee says, well, that's 50$ per chargeback and how much ever for the service we'll lose, so I need to take this to the manager to get it approved. The manager approves it, cause losing that other money is much worse than losing a customer. The vp justifies this to the ceo based on bottom line, and the whole thing works out. Is it good customer service? no. Does it work in the end if you know to tell them you're going to do that? yep. Drop that bomb right off the bat and you'll be suprised how many places apologize and refund you up front.

Note to those who actually get to read this: Most credit card companies only chargeback up to 90 days! If you're getting screwed by a company like, say, aol, make sure to call them and tell them you're going to chargeback within 40 days of the bad charge, cause it sucks to get screwed out of that money.

nothing new here, it's been happening forever

[swschrad]

AOhell got its name somehow, right? these tales go all the way back to Quantum Online running on the non-windows DOS graphical OS.

and they're all true.

It took me 10 minutes to get them to finally realize that with DSL, five years ago, I didn't want them any more. and I was lucky to be immediately dropped, perhaps because I used Quantum Online back in the v1.1 era.

not a new tactic

[Lumpy]

Comcast has usedthat for years.

Hell I used to be an employee and when I cancelled my service (Comcast is horribly overpriced compared to DSL+Dish, and yes kids DSL is better than Cable at least when VoIP is involved) It took 2 weeks to get it cancelled and the endless calls to offer me a "better deal" if I keep my service and upgrade to the uber digital HD PVR package, etc..

I finally had to go to a local office stand in line and refuse to leave until they gave me a final bill and a written service cancellation recipt.

The phone people get a kickback spiff for every customer they keep from leaving and will do anything to get that kickback.

AOL simply is using the same tactic.

Re:Vincent was probably following procedure, but

[radarjd]

The victim is probably Vincent who was just doing what his supervisor told him to do. But, atlas, that's what you get to be when the bottom falls out; the scapegoat at the bottom.

I got the same treatment a while back when I was cancelling an account from AOL -- not quite as bad, but close. The rep kept offering me free months in exchange for not cancelling. I didn't know how I got signed up for AOL in the first place, but that's a different story.

In any case, it seems more like an established business practice than a rogue representative. The AOL rep was pushy, but he was probably doing nothing different than he was trained to do, and had done before. Perhaps he should file a wrongful termination lawsuit, and see if AOL wants their training practices scrutinized on the record...

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I used to work at one of the AOL call centers

[Billly Gates]

It is their job to prevent you from leaving at all costs. I dont remember the stats (I worked in the tech department) but I believe they wanted no more than 3 or 4 cancellations an hour. If you have more than 6 its time for you to clean out your desk and work elsewhere.

Or as they like to put it "Your keybadge wont work" as a polite way of saying your fired.

Its a very bad place to work and the bean counters call teh shots and make senior decisions on how its run everytime. I am surely not surprised it lost 30 million customers. They are very short sighted indeed and dont give a crap about anyone including their own customers. Just how they look to senior management at AOL corporate.

Also the call center I worked did some borderline illegal practices and they always change the name of the subsidaries they do some call center work because they keep getting sued for firing people for unjust causes. But I consider this outright fraud.

So if you know anyone who uses AOL and wants to quit, here is how to do it? Call the credit company and tell them not to pay AOL anymore. Problem solved and you get to save someone's job.

Re:Easy solution

[Darth Liberus]

When I used to do on-site technical support for home users and small businesses, this is the procedure I ALWAYS used to cancel AOL:

1. Call the credit card company. Tell them you are cancelling AOL and will no longer accept any charges from them. The credit card companies are all too familiar with AOL's billing practices and will thank you for calling ahead.

2. Call AOL and tell them you'd like to cancel your account. DO NOT ANSWER ANY OF THEIR QUESTIONS, just keep saying "I am cancelling my account. The credit card company has already been informed of this and will not accept any more charges from you. May I have the confirmation number please?"

3. Repeat #2 until AOL rep. gives in and gives you a confirmation number.

4. Verify that the confirmation number is, indeed, for cancelling your account.

5. Call the credit card company back with the confirmation number.

It was a serious pain in the ass and took from 45 minutes to an hour, but it worked.

This is by far the easiest way

[patio11]

Don't get me started on trying to get away from the AOL behemoth. You can get to a fraud hotline at your credit card company of choice in mere minutes. "Hiya, this is Patio11: does it count as fraud if I'm getting billed without my consent? Because I've had this recurring charge from AOL for *state length of time greater than zero* after I called them to cancel..." BAM watch your problem go away.

Here's a handy state by state guide

[patio11]

I am not a lawyer, these folks are or have consulted one, use at your own risk.

Re:stop paying?

[Asphalt]

Sure you can... unless you signed up by credit/debit card or eft. If that's the case, your only recourse is to close the account. Of course their response may be to send your AOL account to a collection agency after their internal collection fails.

I've heard from someone in the business who should know, that the collection agency for AOL does not report to CRA's, because the CRA's got so many complaints and disputes about AOL that they no longer list "delinquent" AOL accounts on consumer credit reports.

Seems the customer gets the benefit of the doubt these days when AOL is involved, and no harm is done to the all important "credit report".

Of course, don't take what I am saying as gospel. Periodically check your reports (if you care about such things) after doing this, and go through the appropriate dispute mechanism. It is second hand information from a generally reliable source, but it appears that AOL collections don't have any teeth whatsover. Mostly just a bunch of threatening letters trying to squeeze a few dollars out of the guillable.

All the law requires is that you make a "good faith" effort to cancel your account.

If you make said effort, then cancel the billed account, you are covered legally. And the shots of AOL suing over the "debt" are pretty slim.

Re:No different than Dell/McAfee

[DarkMantle]

Actually, the McAfee issue is on all PC's. With McAfee 2005/2006 if the firewall is installed you HAVE to uninstall from safe mode because it won't unload the firewall. This is true with Dell, eMachines, Gateway, and clones. I've seen this on alot of systems, not just Dell PC's.

Much like most of the time when you try to uninstall Norton to reisntall/upgrade it the next install fails because it doesn't uninstall properly. It's strictly because of bad programing. And why are you having them install Avast? I thought the point of antivirus software was to prevent viruses. Avast let 3 Viruses on a system in 1.5 hours, and meanwhile thought that windows was a virus.

Anyway, more homework before ranting next time please.

Attorney General Already Fined AOL For This

[chromozone]

I got the same treatment from AOL. I was going to contact the Attorney Generals Office and found out Eliot Spitzer's Office had already settled with AOL - obviously to no good effect. The AE gets to make a buck and AOL figures the fine as a cost of business. The release from 2005:

AOL TO REFORM CUSTOMER SERVICE PROCEDURES

Settlement Requires Company to Remove Obstacles
Consumers Face When Seeking to Switch or Cancel Service

Attorney General Eliot Spitzer today announced an agreement that requires the nation's leading internet service provider to reform its customer service procedures.

Under the agreement, America Online (AOL) will alter the incentives it offers to customer representatives who seek to persuade subscribers not to cancel their service.

"This agreement helps ensure that AOL will strive to keep its customers through quality service, not stealth retention programs," Spitzer said.

In response to approximately 300 consumer complaints, Spitzer's office began an inquiry of AOL's customer service policies. The investigation revealed that the company had an elaborate system for rewarding employees who purported to retain or "save" subscribers who had called to cancel their internet service. In many instances, such retention was done against subscribers' wishes, or without their consent.

Under the system, consumer service personnel received bonuses worth tens of thousands of dollars if they could successfully dissuade or "save" half of the people who called to cancel service. For several years, AOL had instituted minimum retention or "save" percentages, which consumer representatives were expected to meet. These bonuses, and the minimum "save" rates accompanying them, had the effect of employees not honoring cancellations, or otherwise making cancellation unduly difficult for consumers.

Many consumers complained that AOL personnel ignored their demands to cancel service and stop billing.

The agreement requires AOL to:

  Eliminate any requirements that its customer service representatives maintain a minimum number of "saves" in order to earn a bonus;

  Record all service cancellation requests and verify action on the request through a third-party monitor;

  Provide refunds to all New York consumers who claim harm based on improper cancellation procedures, up to four months worth of service;

  Pay $1.25 million to the state in penalties and costs.

(New York State Attorney Generals Office) http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/aug/aug24a_0 5.html

Re:No different than Dell/McAfee

[enrevanche]

This is not just "bad programming." These companies know windows better than the 95% (or more) of windows software companies. They purposally make it difficult to uninstall. In they're daily testing they install/uninstall their programs multiple times. They know exactly what they're doing.

Re:Easy solution

[arthexis]

Calling AOL should be the first step always. I work as a rep for a credit card center, and we get AOL calls all the time. If you haven't contacted AOL first, there is not a quick way for us to just stop the charges, since there is always bureucracy involved. It's faster for all the involved parties to just keep a firm "No, thanks" at AOL's rep.

Re:Vincent was probably following procedure, but

[Billly Gates]

"It sounds to me like you're dangerously close to saying companies have a right to harrass you into backing out of a cancellation. They certainly have a right to OFFER customers something not to cancel, but they don't have a right to either guilt you into not cancelling or to otherwise harangue you about it. It's the customer's money, and it's the customer's credit card. In the absence of a contractual agreement, they have the right and expectation to be able to call and cancel at any time without getting any guff about it."

Actually AOL does assume it has the right to harrass you and its highly encouraged. I worked there.

You can not have more than 3 or 4 cancellations an hour and you must take a ton of calls with low handle time. In order to keep your job you must try to stop them at all costs! I am not saying this is ethical but I would have been rude too and nervous and thinking about my stats.

Its the job of the staff to protect AOL from the customers. Its backwards over there and I do wish someone would sue to change this. Many phone companies saw this and loved the idea and do the same thing with people trying to cancel. This is probably going to be the new thing.

But yes if you need to be rude back then so be it as long as the numbers are met for hte bean counters then things are good. The jerks there always had the best stats and the lowest handle time on the phones and the least amount of cancellations an hour.

That isn't all they do.

[The MAZZTer]

At college there are some serious limitations on p2p. I have managed to work around these since then (just gotta be careful not to generate any noticable traffic, and to encrypt everything) but before then I seriously considered using a free AOL trial. NetZero's free 10 hours per month just wasn't cutting it.

So, I go to the sign up page. I fill out some of the stuff (it's a multi page form so I'm submitting as I go) but then I see they need a CC number. I'm not about to give them that (what if I forget to cancel? etc, not to mention my parents handle my accounting and they would want to know why I signed up for AOL when I had internet at college). So I cancel out of the form.

THEY SAVED THE ENTERED INFORMATION EVEN THOUGH I CANCELLED THE SIGN UP. I wasn't even aware of this until a few days later when a rep called me and tried to get me to reconsider and sign up anyways. Luckily it was a one time call and I made it clear I was no longer interested.

Re:No different than Dell/McAfee

[alienw]

Avast let 3 Viruses on a system in 1.5 hours,

What exactly do you do on the internet? I don't even have an antivirus or a firewall installed on my XP box, and I have never had issues with a single virus or worm. The closest I came was maybe a piece of spyware or two bundled with something. How do you manage to pick up three viruses in 1.5 hours?

Instructions are pretty clear here:

[globring]

I typed "cancel" into the AOL Help Search box, and it had a link to the following:

We value your membership with the AOL® community. However, we are really sorry that you're considering canceling your AOL® account. It's our mission to build a service that lives up to the high standards of the online community. We hope you've enjoyed being an AOL member and that we can help you again in the future. For security reasons, AOL accounts cannot be cancelled either online or through e-mail. You can get your AOL account cancelled either through phone, US mail or fax.
To Cancel Your AOL® Membership Over the Phone

To cancel your AOL account over the phone, all you need to do is call up AOL® Member Services at 1-888-265-8008. You can speak to our representatives to get your account cancelled. This service is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

To Cancel Your AOL Membership Though U.S. Mail

You can request the cancellation of your AOL account through the U.S. mail. Just send your request to:

AOL
PO BOX 17100
Jacksonville, FL 32245-7100

To Cancel Your AOL Membership Though Fax

If you prefer sending in your request through fax, please send it to us at 1-703-433-7283.

Notes:

        * If you choose to write or fax us, please include a brief note stating the nature of your request, the primary billing contact's full name, phone number, address and handwritten signature.
        * In addition to that, for account security purpose please provide any one of the following:
                    o The master screen name of the AOL account
                    o The last four digits of the current method of payment (for your security, please include only the last four digits)
                    o The answer to the account security question of the master screen name.
        * Cancellation will take effect within 72 hours of receipt of your request and AOL will send you a written confirmation. Please note that AOL LLC reserves the right to charge and collect fees, surcharges or costs incurred before your cancellation takes effect. Thank you for using AOL

Re:No different than Dell/McAfee

[70Bang]

They are also known as 800-lb gorillas in the antispam market.

Some might think otherwise, but their presence in the anti world & proper actions indicate otherwise.

The big question I was curious about as I read through the transcript is: was it Charlie, Delores, Mike, or Chris, all with a very strong accent, but when you ask them where they are, "In America, just like you!"

I don't speak Hindi or Urdu, but I know such an accent when I hear one.

Re:No different than Dell/McAfee

[rhyno46]

You don't have to boot into safe mode. Do the following:
- Shut down every component of Mcafee (right click the icon in the system tray)
- Shut down the icon in the system tray (is it called "McAfee Security Center"?
- Now you can uninstall all of the pieces. If it fails, hit ctrl+shift+esc and use the task manager to kill any McAfee processes.

This worked for the last 10 or 20 systems I've helped clients setup.

YouTube Link

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIVZ9b0RgmY&search= VINCENT%20FERRARI

Re:MOD PARENT UP plz

[Fordiman]

RTFA. The dude's 30 years old and is paying for the account himself.

I understand that the rep may have been thinking 'hijacking', however how, exactly, would cancelling a hijacked account no be in Vincent's best interests?

The rep evaded the cancellation request repeatedly, saying that it was being used, it's online, etc. It's standard AOL tactics; try anything you can to keep the user from cancelling. I know, I've been there (I spent about an hour trying to convince a rep that I never even signed up for AOL, and trying to get them to cancel my account. Fortunately, cancelling the apparently compromised credit card was far easier). My girlfriend has been there (she spent twenty minutes trying to convince her rep to cancel her old account). AOL's retention reps are right BASTARDS to deal with.

Just do yourself a favor; before you go condemning this guy, sign up for an AOL free trial and try to cancel a month later. See how far you get.

AOL lawsuits

[supersat]

Its backwards over there and I do wish someone would sue to change this.

They have:

• The FTC issued a complaint and ordered AOL to change their practices.
• There were two class-action lawsuits settled in 2004.
• Ohio sued and settled in 2005.
• Finally, most recently, the State of New York sued as well, and the agreement reached with AOL requires AOL to have a third party verify all cancellation calls by the end of this month.

Unfortunately, it seems like AOL is considering these lawsuits just a cost of doing business, and as a result, it doesn't appear that much has changed.

Re:MOD PARENT UP plz

[Technician]

While trying to find a good dial up ISP in a new area, my wife jumped the gun and figured a free 30 day trial would get her online in the meantime.

A week later I picked an ISP and started service. Then came the fun of trying to cancel. My wife tried and failed and asked me to try since I was a guy and could deal with them.

I called and explained how we came by the account. It was never intended as long term. They tried to get me to keep the account. What worked was when I told them I was having trouble using my e-mail client to recieve POP-3 mail and asked how to configure it. They explained they didn't support it. I said I could not continue to use them because they did not meet my requirements. Case closed.

They don't want to let you go if they think they can meet your needs. Be sure your needs are not met by their walled garden.

I cancelled AOL with a 3 minute phone call

[starkravingmad]

Told them I was leaving the country next week. Checkmate.