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More PDF Blackout Follies

georgewilliamherbert writes "The latest installment of "As the PDF Blackouts Turn" hit today, with a U.S. government apparently releasing a redacted version of their court filing in the Balco grand jury leak case which merely stuck a black line over the text, which remains available in the document. As with prior documents, entering text cut/paste mode in a normal PDF browser such as Acrobat allows a reader to access the concealed text. Previous incidents include an AT&T filing in the NSA case." This works with Xpdf and KPDF, too; for KPDF, use the selection tool (under the Tools menu) around the redacted section, copy to clipboard, then paste into the text-manipulator of your choice.

309 comments

  1. Maybe by GmAz · · Score: 4, Funny

    Perhaps the people making these "blacked out documents" should be taught a little about Vector Graphics and that a black box is not the same as a sharpie. One word for them 'n00b'!!

    --
    Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
    1. Re:Maybe by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't even need to go into vector graphics with these people. All you need to do is attempt to convince them that white text is still text, or that black text on a black background is still text. Either way, the text is still there. The only way to ensure that it's gone is to ACTUALLY GET RID OF THE TEXT.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    2. Re:Maybe by HumanisticJones · · Score: 1

      I do believe that the common vernacular of today's youths is that these fellows at the NSA have indeed been "ZOMG pwned liek teh n00bz!!!1"

    3. Re:Maybe by Mirlas · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe we need to go back to good-old fashioned text files.
      It was good enough back in the days of wood-burning computers;
      it should be good enough now.

    4. Re:Maybe by Nutria · · Score: 3, Insightful
      these fellows at the NSA

      NSA? Since when does the NSA redact subpoenas for the District Attorney?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    5. Re:Maybe by siriuskase · · Score: 1

      Maybe we'd rather they didn't know these things. While it is scary to think of how technologically unsophisticated some of the people in government are, it is also scary to think of how knowledgable they might be. I'm afraid that they might know just enough to cause problems because they don't know enough to anticipate them.

      --
      If you must moderate, please moderate as irrelevent, not something bad, because I'm sure someone will find this interest
    6. Re:Maybe by HumanisticJones · · Score: 5, Funny

      Indeed it does seem I have allowed my mind to wander while writing a post. Anyone want to try out my new book, "Not Hitting Preview First: Making an Ass of Yourself in a Public Forum"?

    7. Re:Maybe by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 3, Informative

      All you need to do is attempt to convince them that white text is still text, or that black text on a black background is still text. Either way, the text is still there.

      This is a confusion over the way the Adobe Imaging Model works, not white-on-white or black-on-black. In Adobe's model, you start with a blank page, and you essentially paint on it; newly drawn things cover previously drawn things. Basically, despite what the previous commenter said, it really is like a Sharpie.

      When you physically draw over something with a black marker, the previous text may be impossible to see, but it's still there. In the PDF, you'd only have to skip the instruction drawing the box to get the text out. Even if Acrobat didn't let you get at the text by cutting-and-pasting, someone familiar with the PDF format could still get to it with some work.

    8. Re:Maybe by cmdr_beeftaco · · Score: 1

      maybe we should use dingbats instead of blackboxes.

    9. Re:Maybe by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      Even if Acrobat didn't let you get at the text by cutting-and-pasting, someone familiar with the PDF format could still get to it with some work.

      Which is why I stated that the only way to ensure that the text is removed is to actually remove the text. Changing font colors doesn't do it. Changing background colors doesn't do it. Drawing boxes over the text doesn't do it (you only need to open a PDF file in Illustrator to be able to manipulate the layers). However, actually deleting the text or replacing it with XXXXXXXXXXs does do it.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    10. Re:Maybe by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      I like to rot13 my dingbats.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    11. Re:Maybe by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe we need to go back to good-old fashioned text files.
      It was good enough back in the days of wood-burning computers;
      it should be good enough now.


      Definitely! Then we can redact things with fancy ANSI terminal codes ^[[30;40mlike this super secret hidden message[[m!

      w00t! No one will EVER figure how to defeat that!

    12. Re:Maybe by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 1, Funny

      I rot13 mine twice for extra security.

    13. Re:Maybe by indifferent+children · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just because you're releasing the 12th printing of the 4th edition, does not make this a 'new book'.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    14. Re:Maybe by massysett · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "may be impossible to see" are the operative words there. Ever used a Sharpie to black out the routing number on the bottom of a check? You can still make out the numbers. One way I've found to really black them out is to Sharpie the numbers, and then Xerox that check. Even Sharpies don't work as they might at first appear to.

      Real redactors use razors. You hold up one of those redacted documents and it looks like a punch card.

    15. Re:Maybe by OldManAndTheC++ · · Score: 5, Funny

      It was good enough back in the days of wood-burning computers

      Oh man, that brings back some memories! Late nights cranking out code on my Bunyan 2500 - that puppy went through three cords of oak a week, and it kept the place warm to boot. And we didn't need any of that fancy book learnin' to make it work either; if you were a good hand at whittling, you could be a programmer. Never had a lick of trouble with the Bunyan, except for the occasional splinter. Oh sure, you had to keep some kindling around to get her started, but once she got goin' she could do anything - add, multiply, and of course, branch.

      Internet? Pfft. We modulated the smoke exhaust by opening and closing the flue - you could see it for miles, unless it was raining, or windy. Hell, we had peer to peer networks back before most of you guys were even a swimmer in your dad's testicals.

      There's still a few Bunyans around, if you know where to look. Auditors like them, since they're so good at logging, and keeping a paper trail. I think the Vatican still has one, though they only fire it up when they elect a new Pope. Ah, the good old days...

      --
      Soylent Green is peoplicious!
    16. Re:Maybe by IAmTheDave · · Score: 4, Funny

      Reminds me of one of my favorite Onion articles: CIA Realizes It's Been Using Black Highlighters All These Years

      --
      Excuse my speling.
      Making The Bar Project
    17. Re:Maybe by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      Auditors like them, since they're so good at logging, and keeping a paper trail.

      I nominate this for pun of the week.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    18. Re:Maybe by statusbar · · Score: 2, Funny
      No. no, all you need to do is to sell them 'magic-cyber markers' for $1000.00 that they can apply directly to their screen!

      --jeffk++

      (... a fool and his money are best parted... )

      --
      ipv6 is my vpn
    19. Re:Maybe by recursiv · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can't remember the last time I saw rot13 mentioned without without someone cleverly pointing out their habit of double or triple rot13. That would be a novel thing.

      --
      I used to bulls-eye womp-rats in my pants
    20. Re:Maybe by scribblej · · Score: 4, Funny

      I had one of them wooden computers once. Wooden keyboard, wooden monitor, wooden CPU... only one problem: it wooden work. :(

    21. Re:Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when does the NSA redact subpoenas for the District Attorney?

      You do not need to know.

      However, WTF is a "sharpie"?

    22. Re:Maybe by Uncle+Kadigan · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yours could multiply? Ours could only add. In order to multiply, we needed to build a log table.

    23. Re:Maybe by Red+Alastor · · Score: 1
      Even if Acrobat didn't let you get at the text by cutting-and-pasting, someone familiar with the PDF format could still get to it with some work.
      Heck, Wordperfect X3 lets you open and edit PDF files like any other files. I hope we get something similar on Linux. Not necessarily having OpenOffice open and edit pdf files but at least something that turns PDFs into RTFs.
      --
      Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"
    24. Re:Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Actually, the Dept. of Justice divisions just need to talk to one another. They have the "cyber magic marker" in Justice's Civil Division. It's called Redax, and it costs a good bit less than $1,000, especially with enterprise licensing. With the federal courts now supporting e-filing, any Dept. of Justice attorney or case support staff who don't use it really ought to be sent packing. This particular PDF appears to have been "redacted" in the original word processor. They might as well have released a WordPerfect or Word document....

      Idiots!

    25. Re:Maybe by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      but once she got goin' she could do anything - add, multiply, and of course, branch.

      Ah, the good ol' Bunyan - the first system where I had root.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    26. Re:Maybe by frdmfghtr · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Perhaps the people making these "blacked out documents" should be taught a little about Vector Graphics and that a black box is not the same as a sharpie. One word for them 'n00b'!!


      Sometimes I wonder if these incidents are really "accidents" or somebody's way of feigning ignorance of technology to get the facts out to the public.
      --
      Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
    27. Re:Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Perhaps the people making these "blacked out documents" should be taught a little about Vector Graphics and that a black box is not the same as a sharpie. One word for them 'n00b'!!

      Yeah! Good point.
      <hidden>Not like that n00b 'GmAz' knows anything about vector graphics...</hidden>

    28. Re:Maybe by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    29. Re:Maybe by BattleApple · · Score: 0

      I'm not positive, but I think I read that making revisions to a pdf document (at least using Acrobat) doesn't actually remove the data from the file. It appends the changes to the end of the file, then updates the xref section to point to the new objects.

    30. Re:Maybe by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Informative

      I un-redacted the PDF file, as an example for others. Instead of stripping out the black mask, I turned it red & lowered the opacity. It now highlights the 'redacted' portions quite nicely (and any underlining they used).

      Skip to pages 6-16 of the PDF for the not-so-hidden goods
      http://www.easy-sharing.com/528126/BALCO_quash_sub poena_sfchronicle_unredacted.pdf.html

      P.S. I did it in FoxIt PDF Editor Pro, which I wouldn't really recommend to anyone

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    31. Re:Maybe by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Well, you kids and your newfangled wooden shit. Why back in my day when you were jumping from ball to ball trying to not be born a nerd we were using abacuses. I've been working on upgrading mine quite a while now, still.

      I have a head start on not only you whippersnappers and your wood compooters, these new kids are using sand, melting it and putting germanium and other shit in it. Is that dumb or what? I'm amazed the damned things work at all!

      They're talking about their sand computers becoming sentient and aware if they get complicated enough. HAH! Do you kids have any idea how many beads I have on my abacus?

      I'm sorry, what were we talking about again?

      Oh, the wooden woman. You know what she wooden do... Oh wait, this is slashdot, never mind.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    32. Re:Maybe by BattleApple · · Score: 0

      I just checked the PDF reference v5:

      Appendix G page 997-998
      The entries for the two deleted text annotations are marked as free and as having generation numbers of 1, which are used for any objects that reuse these cross-reference entries. Keep in mind that, although the two objects have been deleted, they are still present in the file. It is the cross-reference table that records the fact that they have been deleted.
      The Prev entry in the trailer has again been updated so that it points to the crossreference section added at the previous stage, and the startxref value points to the newly added cross-reference section.

    33. Re:Maybe by John+Hurliman · · Score: 1

      Also with routing and account numbers on checks, they are printed with magnetic ink. Even if you did completely black out the number, a bank or someone with MICR hardware could still pick up the numbers.

      http://www.asapchecks.com/micr/micr.htm

    34. Re:Maybe by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Don't worry. I'll make a PDF of your post and black out the NSA reference.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    35. Re:Maybe by kin_korn_karn · · Score: 1

      yeah, I know, but I rarely post anymore so I thought I'd trot out one of the old standards

    36. Re:Maybe by caller9 · · Score: 1

      Have to agree with poster on that point. The blackout then photocopy method is one way, but might also use a razor as sharpie might still let the photocopy have the information if looked at closely. You know, less black than black in parts.

      The real problem with marking through an original is that a lot of checks write the routing info etc in MiCR fonts/ink. Which is impregnated with metal and can be read after being marked over with a sharpie by these "magnetic OCR" devices banks use to zip checks through ASAP.

      Not sure about the use of MICR on random personal checks but medium/big institutions that print their own AP and payroll definately use it. I'm pretty sure the banks require it for high volume checks. It's a wierd stone-age thing when direct deposit is ostensibly a lot more secure if you trust the person giving you cash. Or don't trust them and the bank uses 2 routing numbers one for deposit and one for withdrawal. People purporting to give you cash once they know your banking info would be SOL if they tried to pull money from a deposit routing number. I know this is marginally institutionalized but there appears to be a deposit/withdrawal and a deposit only number, how many of you know thier deposit only number? How many gave this number to their employer when signing up for direct deposit, or did you have to give them a voided check with the D/W number instead of the DO number? Then again a previous employer actually ran a $.01 deposit then withdrawal test to make sure they could take my money if they accidentally over-deposited. So this could be a feature employers don't like. Sure it wouldn't be my money and I'd gladly give it back, and of course there are those assholes that would try to keep it, but then there are those assholes that would scam employees for all their worth then go to *random island with no extradition treaty*

      Just curious and slashdot may know, why hasn't an intrepid postal employee devised a "MICR scanner" that he throws envelopes through to get acct/routing info.

      Tangents are my thing if you hadn't noticed.

    37. Re:Maybe by HumanisticJones · · Score: 1

      Oh thank you! No one shall ever know of my secret shame then. Thank god they wouldn't just be able to copy it and paste it into notepad or something.

    38. Re:Maybe by Phylter · · Score: 1

      Checks use MICR too. This means that the code can be read by a machine even if you can't see it yourself because of a magnetic property to the ink used for the orginal numbers.

    39. Re:Maybe by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      "may be impossible to see" are the operative words there. Ever used a Sharpie to black out the routing number on the bottom of a check? You can still make out the numbers.

      I've no idea what a "Sharpie" is in the RoTW, but guessing that it's a thick-tipped, dark-ink marker-pen of some sort, this is a really bad example. Those numbers along the bottom of a cheque are not intended or designed to be human readable - they're for machine reading by automated cheque-reading machines. The bank details and account details go into the bank's records (and thence to payment instructions etc) by the mechanised reader and the human(-ish) operator only has to enter the amount. The receiving bank should have already sorted the cheques in some way so that they know who the payee is.
      I'm carefully not using the phrase "optical character recognition" in this description, because the character recognition is not done optically. The ink is magnetic.
      You want to try fouling up one of these cheque readers? If you can't find the ink of the appropriate magnetic susceptibility, try finding a non-magnetic viscous ink of similar colour and replacing the magnetic ink with that in the right shapes. The teller will swipe it several times, give up, and punch the numbers in by hand, because it's quicker than trying a long complex procedure. That's why they don't use transparent magnetic ink - system redundancy.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    40. Re:Maybe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that adobe acrobat 7.0 doesn't let you edit out the text, it merely touches the document up, so the original author can change it.

      And I've tried to change the fonts and text, it won't let you!!!!

      Where is a bootleg of acrobat 6.0????!@#!@#!@

  2. This is why... by dubmun · · Score: 2, Funny

    we should all just write everything down in pencil. Boo to technology.

    Or... they could just find a better technological solution. Seems like a no brainer to me.

    --
    (end of post)
    1. Re:This is why... by Analog+Squirrel · · Score: 3, Funny

      Are you saying "boo" or "Boo urns"?

      </oblig>
      --
      I'd rather be flying
    2. Re:This is why... by StarvingSE · · Score: 1

      I'm saying Boo Burns.

      --
      I got nothin'
    3. Re:This is why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      i don't think we should write anything down. instead, we should retain the important information by creating hymns & poems that we teach the younger ones while dancing around a fire and praying for a good harvest.

      ds

  3. History repeats itself by alshithead · · Score: 5, Funny

    Perhaps after another dozen or so incidents they'll decide a little training is appropriate for the folks who are doing the redacting.

    --
    I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
    1. Re:History repeats itself by cavtroop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, more than likely they will just pass a new law, stating that "Copying and pasting of blacked out (redacted) lines is a felony" or somesuch...

    2. Re:History repeats itself by richg74 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      This is in principle a good idea. However, the implementation may suffer from a fundamental problem.

      My grandfather used to say that there is one irreducible requirement for training a dog: you have to be smarter than the dog.

    3. Re:History repeats itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that's called the DMCA

    4. Re:History repeats itself by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Alternatively, perhaps the technology is at fault. If the same mistake is made over, and over, and over again, many user interface experts would start investigating whether it's the UI, not the user that's at fault. The argument is that the mistake is being made because the correct solution is not intuitively obvious.

      I'd be curious to know what tool the users are using to black out the text. Are they just exporting from Word but, before exporting, "blocking it out" in Word? If so, how? Are they putting black blocks over text, or setting attributes of the relevent text? If these are the wrong techniques, what can be done to make the right techniques obvious (and the wrongness of these techniques equally obvious)?

      I've designed enough crappy UIs in the past and justified them with "It's user error! All they have to do is hit the OK or CANCEL buttons, of course it's not going to work if they close the window instead!" and other such stuff that, with hindsight, was utterly wrong and elitist of me, to know that technically skilled people are not the best judge of intuitiveness. The fact is, I'm a programmer. You're probably technically minded too. The average user isn't. We can't avoid making assumptions about what the user thinks works that are, on occasion, completely, 180 degrees, wrong. What we can do is own up to them and try to determine how to steer the user in the right direction.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:History repeats itself by alshithead · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Good point but I think you're looking deeper than need be. The users are probably just not fully understanding what they are doing. The full version of Adobe and Word are both great examples of applications that have so many options, tools, settings, and functions that the average user of these applications probably never even begins to understand 50% of what is available to them.

      --
      I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
    6. Re:History repeats itself by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What happens when I actually want to print white text on a black background? Will I have to go through some convoluted process because setting the background as black doesn't actually change the background to black, but rather also eliminates any text contained within it?

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    7. Re:History repeats itself by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If the user interface is designed well, you'll know exactly what to do, just as you'll know intuitively how to really redact text.

      If you're asking me to tell you how such a properly designed UI will work, you're asking the wrong person. It'd be interesting to get someone like Bruce Tognazzini to give their take on it. Right now, all we can be fairly sure of is that the UI isn't working because people are constantly choosing the wrong tool for the job.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    8. Re:History repeats itself by Eadwacer · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. Sometimes it picks up a big club and says "Weren't you listening the first time?" - Terry Pratchett.

    9. Re:History repeats itself by DarkVader · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know, considering the state our government is in, I would much prefer that someone would build into all software going to the government an "unredact" feature to make it even easier to recover government coverups.

      Barring that, PLEASE don't educate them, or make it easier for them to really redact anything.

    10. Re:History repeats itself by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 1

      Or as sysadmins might say, the fault lies in the keyboard-chair interface.

    11. Re:History repeats itself by DarkSarin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fortunately this does not apply to humans--not directly.

      I can easily train people that are smarter than myself, if the conditions are right. For instance, I know a fair bit about statistics and data analysis, and would be perfectly comfortable training certain folks in the field, as long as they didn't know more than I do. Even then, it perfectly possible for me to come up with a unique idea that someone smarter than myself hasn't (note that I didn't say couldn't) considered.

      In the public schools there are frequent cases of a teacher training a student more intelligent than themself. It is unavoidable, although it could be reduced by making sure only the smartest teachers were highered.

      Smarter? Not a requirement. More experienced? Having unique knowledge? Yes, that is required, but maybe not irreducibly.

      HAND

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    12. Re:History repeats itself by geobeck · · Score: 2, Funny

      Perhaps after another dozen or so incidents they'll decide a little training is appropriate for the folks who are doing the redacting.

      No, more than likely they will just pass a new law, stating that "Copying and pasting of blacked out (redacted) lines is a felony" or somesuch...

      Train them to use the blackout method, but to replace the redacted text with "If you can read this, you're under arrest!"

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    13. Re:History repeats itself by indifferent+children · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe Adobe Acrobat needs a new menu item: Edit->Redact Then you only have to train people to use that feature rather than the backgound-color feature.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    14. Re:History repeats itself by JPribe · · Score: 1

      That's awfully generous, try something along the lines of 5%. Just turning on non-printing characters before I toss a .doc out to OOo to save as a PDF gives me a headache....

      --

      Why go fast when you can go anywhere? O|||||||O
    15. Re:History repeats itself by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      It is unavoidable, although it could be reduced by making sure only the smartest teachers were highered.

      That way, maybe they would turn out students who could spell the word "hired".

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
    16. Re:History repeats itself by specht · · Score: 1

      This is a case of not using the right tool. It does not matter how much you change the user interface on a hammer, it's still the wrong tool for working with screws... Acrobat is not the right tool to redact a document. You can install an Acrobat plug-in that does that, but with Acrobat alone, you will only cover up information that can be uncovered later.

    17. Re:History repeats itself by kosmosik · · Score: 1

      Of course it is *part* of wrongly designed software. I mean WTF needs the option to black out text in word processor using a rectangle? It should not be possible at all, or produce big fat warning message everytime it occurs.

    18. Re:History repeats itself by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Maybe he's making a verb out of "higher", treating it as a synonym for "elevate". Is he therefore saying that only the smartest teachers should be promoted?

    19. Re:History repeats itself by GWTPict · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nah, he just can't spell.

    20. Re:History repeats itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think people are understanding the process governmental agencies use for generating PDF documents. Typically it's a text document that's been scanned in with OCR and made into a PDF. The people redacting these documents are probably using a PDF editor, i.e. Adobe Acrobat Pro, to slap black boxes over the words. They're not the document originators or even maintainers; they're people who were hired to put black boxes over words in PDF documents.

    21. Re:History repeats itself by Tired+and+Emotional · · Score: 1

      In math some of the hardest things to prove are hard because there's an obvious proof that happens to be wrong.

      So I would have said that mistakes are being made because a wrong solution is intuitively obvious. That seems to fit here too.

      --
      Squirrel!
    22. Re:History repeats itself by Dr.+Photo · · Score: 1

      "the fault lies in the keyboard-chair interface."

      Yes, I've often noticed that an unsightly lump of organic goo accretes in the empty space between keyboard and chair.

      Apparently it's some sort of minor parasite that uses a small amount of the computer's power to play FreeCell or Minesweeper, generally without killing the host outright for at least a month.

    23. Re:History repeats itself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just heard today, from am Adobe rep, that they are, indeed adding a Redaction tool to Adobe Acrobat.

    24. Re:History repeats itself by delcielo · · Score: 1

      The thing that strikes me about such a law is that instead of compelling those in charge of our national security to be smarter, it compels the rest of us to be ignorant.

      --
      Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
    25. Re:History repeats itself by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      A couple of solutions, at the risk of losing fancy formatting (italics, curly quotes, and so on...), graphics...:

      1. Save the sensitive doc as text after "blacking-out" the sensitive in the word processor. This will strip out all the special formatting

      2. Do the above, except copy and paste the modified text into a text file

      3. Build a "sensitive word" dictionary that flags and highlights the words, then substitute them with objects or "this text removed for reasons of national security...", THEN save the file as other formats as desired prior to releasing.

      It's NOT that hard.

      Then, hand the body of work over to censors whose job it is to proof the works.

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    26. Re:History repeats itself by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 1

      If the user interface is designed well, you'll know exactly what to do, just as you'll know intuitively how to really redact text.

      Basically, the ability to redact text relies upon the ability of a program to forget all previous actions to a file as well as merge changes into a uniform layer. Text editors are great at this: The redo history is destroyed upon program exit and the file is a uniform character array (possibly with formatting). Any sort of graphical design program, unless it's purely pixel based without layer support, will probably allow for occlusion and other methods of hiding information behind elements. Layers and redo logs (ala Word storing previous changes to the document) are easy enough to deal with by merging everything into one layer, but trying to merge vector graphics into a uniform surface with no overlapping elements requires a whole lot of clipping, introducing a whole lot more verices which makes the everything slower to render. It may also be impossible to clip certain types of curves and have the curve segments follow the exact same path as the original curve without specifying the entire curve and then defining a clipping region. That obviously won't work if the curves you're partially obscuring make up the text you're trying to black out

      You want to know the real problem with Adobe? Pretending they have a magical special paper-in-all-but-name format that only authorized programs can touch and modify. If everyone knew that PDFs were just vector graphics files, people would probably have no difficulty realizing that they couldn't just cover up existing text with another element to make it go away. Almost everyone who works with graphics or even windowing systems knows that you can obscure an object with a second object, then remove it to reveal the original.

    27. Re:History repeats itself by megaditto · · Score: 1
      We can't avoid making assumptions about what the user thinks works that are, on occasion, completely, 180 degrees, wrong.


      Oh, you mean like clicking the Start Button to Shut down your computer?
      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    28. Re:History repeats itself by Excelsior · · Score: 1

      If the government was commited to using Free Software as some believe it should, then the government or public could easily add a redact feature.

      Although, for what it's worth, I thought the spacebar with insert turned off accomplished such a feat.

    29. Re:History repeats itself by Al+Dimond · · Score: 1

      User interface design, like most things, isn't just a sliding scale from good to bad. I'd bet the UI is designed at least reasonably well for what most people use it for, as it's been sharpened for these purposes over the years. It's just that the UI isn't terribly good for redacting, because it wasn't designed with redacting in mind.

      The question is whether people that need redacting are a big enough market that software designers should cater to them, or whether government agencies must develop a standard redacting procedure for each of the software titles they use and teach their employees the procedure.

    30. Re:History repeats itself by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1
      Are they just exporting from Word but, before exporting, "blocking it out" in Word? If so, how? Are they putting black blocks over text, or setting attributes of the relevent text? If these are the wrong techniques, what can be done to make the right techniques obvious (and the wrongness of these techniques equally obvious)?

      Not directly related to your post but I just want to say something about this peer review process we have where I work. We started with a form on paper. You write comments and put a tick against comments where appropriate. There is a word document which you print out to make a form.

      Now the process is 100% electronic. We use exactly the same word document. The process says you have to find the tick symbol in word and type it in the appropriate box.

      I am the only person there who has a problem with this. Where did the tick come from? From a pen. Why do we have to use it? Because it has always been done that way. Why can't you just type Yes or Y? Because you needed to use a tick on paper.

      Sometimes things just evolve. Crap results all the time. My wife employs a draftsman to work on her construction projects. He exports autocad to pdf and tells me that this is so nobody can change his name in the plan to their name. Users have these funny beliefs about their tools. Sometimes it is hard to convince them that they are wrong.

  4. People...learn...? by Elros · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You would think that people would have learned after the first time around. Apparently not.

    --
    "And the geek shall inherit the earth."

    1. Re:People...learn...? by Billosaur · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You would think that people would have learned after the first time around. Apparently not.

      You're giving people too much credit; as has been noted in this forum many times, the average computer user is not exactly bright and doesn't read Slashdot, so they would have no idea that this is a problem. People just assume that if something appears to work a certain way, it in fact works that way.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    2. Re:People...learn...? by jimktrains · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." - Douglas Adams

      --
      "You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm." - S. G. Colette
    3. Re:People...learn...? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful
      You're giving people too much credit; as has been noted in this forum many times, the average computer user is not exactly bright and doesn't read Slashdot

      You're giving people too little credit. Most people who use computers are probably fairly bright -- they're lawyers, doctors, accountants, and all sorts of things most people on Slashdot can't do. Reading Slashdot doesn't make you bright (in fact, given much of hte drivel, just the opposite.)

      But, they expect computers to work like a friggin' toaster, and to them, if the text it blanked out, it's not readable. They're not going to realize the 'black' is a representation of a rectangle in a different document layer, and that the actual internal tree of the PDF still contains the actual text. Really, how could they?

      They understand computers by metaphor and analog to the real world. They don't know or care about the actual internal stuff. Since the paradigms have been done to look like the real-world, these people assume that the rest of the things also apply.

      Many people use computers who don't have a full grasp on all of their intricacies. However, I haven't looked inside of a TV in 20+ years, but I'm comfortable using one.

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:People...learn...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Experience is that which enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.

    5. Re:People...learn...? by Nef · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here's my problem with this scenario though. You could probably describe most of the inner workings of said TV, be it SD or HD, LCD /CRT/Plasma, without much difficulty. I'll grant you, you probably couldn't recreate the thing (unless you were an EE or something similar) but you have a basic understanding of how things work.

      This represents a fundamental difference between how geeks/nerds think, and how the population at large thinks. Those technically inclined, whether they're gear-heads, pencil-pushers or computer geeks all take pride in knowing the HOW and WHY of the inner workings of almost everything around them. In fact, of the 3 examples I listed, the only real difference is their own proclivities. Gear-heads are gear-heads because they LOVE cars, computer geeks are computer geeks because they LOVE computers, and pencil-pushers (aka bean-counters, or Analysts in modern corporate-speak) love the truth in numbers!

      This raises the question, from my geek perspective, "Why do some people not care to educate themselves on how the things they use in their life work?" I mean, aside from the obvious benefit of saving a metric butt-ton on services most people pay an arm and a leg for, you can work on just about anything once you get bitten by the knowledge bug.

      Also, IMHO, probably the biggest advantage to being the geeky type is the personal pride one feels when accomplishing something difficult (such as fixing their PC, figuring out how to properly redact text in a particular file format, or rebuilding your engine)!! While I realize that pride can be a bad thing, when it's the kind of pride that makes you happy to be who you are, capable of the things you are, thats a HUGE confidence boost and spills over into so many other areas in life, you'd be silly not to try and take advantage of it!

      Oh, and one last thing. I wouldn't be so quick to assume those reading slashdot can't do some of the things you listed. In fact, knowing a few of our fellow /.'ers personally, there are at least 2 lawyers, 1 doctor and 5 accountants that I know. And they chose those professions because they wanted the money/prestige, or because they truly love what they do. No, I'd be more inclined to say that /.'ers may choose not to do those things on par with the average in society at large, but especially fields requiring intense study and years of education, most definitely pull at the heart-strings of a true geek.

    6. Re:People...learn...? by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      They understand computers by metaphor and analog to the real world.
      In this case, though, metaphor should work just fine because the graphics model is based on a painting metaphor in the first place. How often do we hear about some famous old painting being X-rayed to see what the artist changed his mind about?

    7. Re:People...learn...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me guess, you're doing something people on Slashdot can't do. See, from a geeks point of view PDF is an, uhm..., rather unfortunate format for keeping data on a computer in the first place. I know a lot of colleagues that just *hate* googling for some technical documentation and finding only PDF, yet again. It was people looking for the analogy of printed paper that made PDF popular without ever realizing how much better HTML (or XML or whatever) would be.

      Yes, i'm getting a good laugh out of these blackout stories and sorry, no mercy for these idiots. Not at all.

    8. Re:People...learn...? by brjndr · · Score: 1

      ...the average computer user is not exactly bright and doesn't read Slashdot

      You seem to be implying some sort of correlation between the two.

    9. Re:People...learn...? by Secrity · · Score: 1

      Perhaps people need to realize that computers are NOT like modern toasters or televisions, they are complex and potentially dangerous devices that can cause various forms of injury to the unwary. In this case the injury was the unintended release of information.

      There are many new inventions that caused death or injury for quite some time after they were introduced. After engineering improvements and LOTS OF USER EDUCATION, most items gradually became easier and safer to use.

      There was a reason that tube type televisions had cords that disconnected themselves when the back was removed from the television. Televisions weren't really that dangerous, they were complex to set up and to operate. It took a long time for televisions to loose the fine tuning, horiz hold, vert hold, color, and tint controls; and some of these controls are still there, they're just hidden behind menus. I remember a time when it was necessary to have a television repairman come out to install a new television.

      Toasters have never been that complex, just dangerous. How many people have been shocked because they stuck a fork into a toaster slot? How many people have been burned because they grabbed a hot toaster? It took many years of toaster development and consumer education to make a toaster into a safe appliance.

      In the late 1950's children were suffocating because people didn't know how to properly handle the newly introduced polyethylene dry cleaner bags (80 kids died of suffocation in 1959). After years of consumer education, few, if any children are suffocated by dry cleaner bags anymore.

      It appears that at one time, that there must have been a number of people who were electrocuted by radios that fell into bathtubs. Most people now know not to allow a radio near the bathtub.

      In the early 1980s, several people were electrocuted by the improper use of blow dyers. GFCI's were made mandatory and PEOPLE WERE EDUCATED; few if any people are electrocuted with blow dryers anymore.

      Computers are the same as all of the previously dangerous technologies; it is going to take time to engineer safety into the product and to EDUCATE THE USERS how to safely use them.

    10. Re:People...learn...? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      they expect computers to work like a friggin' toaster

      When using a toaster, you have to know not to wash it in the sink, and not to try to get the bread out with a butter knife while it's still plugged in.

      If I'm a carpenter (I'm not) and my job requires the use of a ladder, electric saws, hydraulic nail guns, etc, I'd damned well better not only be able to use them but to use them safely.

      Sure, lots of this crap shouldn't be classified, but if they "redacted" the location of troops in Afghanistan this way, dozens or more people could die.

      Your analogy doesn't fit the circumstances. I don't have to know how an electron gun works to watch TV, but I have to know where the "on" button and channel change buttons are. And not to take the back off and touch anything inside even if shut off.

      These spooks threw away the remote control and TFM and have no idea where the "on" button is. They're carpenters who peer down the barrel of their nail gun, and pull the trigger wondering while doing so.

      You don't have to know how your tools work, but you have to know how to use them and use them safely. It doesn't matter if you're a carpenter, a lawyer, or a CIA spook.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  5. which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    with a U.S. government apparently releasing a redacted version of their court filing

    Which U.S. government?

    1. Re:which? by TwilightSentry · · Score: 3, Funny

      The RIAA

      --
      How to enable garbage collection on a system without protected memory: #define malloc() ((void *) rand())
    2. Re:which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's with all the grammer Nazis lately? Get a life.

    3. Re:which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      That would be "grammar" Nazis.

      What's with all the illiterate retards lately? Kill yourself.

    4. Re:which? by j79zlr · · Score: 1

      The bad one. Did I answer your question?

      --
      I'm not not licking toads.
    5. Re:which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can point out 1 individual who didn't understand my post or the original post, I gladly will kill myself - on the other hand, if you can not I think it is you that should consider finding something better to do. OK?

    6. Re:which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but which life???

    7. Re:which? by TheDreadSlashdotterD · · Score: 1

      No. For a bad one to exist there must also be a good government. Such a thing seems to never have existed at all.

      --
      I have nothing to say.
    8. Re:which? by sethstorm · · Score: 1

      The kind that has a Right-Wing Rubberstamp Congress.

      --
      Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    9. Re:which? by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_(disamb iguation)

      AFAIK, the United States of America is the only country that currently uses "United States"

      It's a legitimate question though.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    10. Re:which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      with a U.S. government apparently releasing a redacted version of their court filing

      Which U.S. government?


      OURS.

      -Love and kisses from Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Ken Kutaragi, Dieter Zetsche, Rick McEttrick, and Yang Yuanqing.

  6. Works in Safari directly by Deep+Fried+Geekboy · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can open them directly in Safari and cut/paste into TextEdit too.

    --

    I'm not wrong. You haven't thought about it hard enough.

    1. Re:Works in Safari directly by marmoset · · Score: 1

      Works in Preview, too, of course.

    2. Re:Works in Safari directly by rolyatknarf · · Score: 1

      or save the document to disk then open it with the free Adobe Reader and save as text. It's scary to think that I might be smarter than the officials that do this crap.

    3. Re:Works in Safari directly by Nutria · · Score: 1
      You can open them directly in Safari and cut/paste into TextEdit too.

      It will paste into any text editor, even vi-inside-an-xterm-window.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    4. Re:Works in Safari directly by Pieroxy · · Score: 0, Troll

      Actually, the simple fact that you think yourself smarter than someone else just because you know one thing they don't makes me think you're probably not the sharpest tool in the shed either.

    5. Re:Works in Safari directly by rolyatknarf · · Score: 1

      I could tell you to go fuck yourself but you probably hear that from everyone already. Have a nice day.

    6. Re:Works in Safari directly by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      QED

    7. Re:Works in Safari directly by rolyatknarf · · Score: 1

      Thank you. I'm trying real hard to change.

    8. Re:Works in Safari directly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try harder, it doesn't work.

  7. works in older acroread too by FudRucker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    i keep an older version of adobe's acrobat reader for Linux version 5.0 and copy & paste in to a text editor works in it too...

    i hate the new acrobat reader. some claim it calls home to the mothership(Adobe) which i dont approve of either (spyware)...

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:works in older acroread too by Sir+Codelot · · Score: 2, Informative

      i hate the new acrobat reader. some claim it calls home to the mothership(Adobe) which i dont approve of either (spyware)...

      Then you should try Foxit Reader. Apart from being free, light-weight and best for everyday use, it also has got a 'Fox' in its name. :)

      --
      I have a truly marvelous proof of the Riemann hypothesis which this sig is too short to contain...
    2. Re:works in older acroread too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm running Acrobat 7.0 and while it's not the newest version, it also is able to copy/paste the text behind the black.

    3. Re:works in older acroread too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually in the new version if you just choose save as text it outputs the entire document without any redactions also

  8. Even more shocking by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Funny

    What's this in TFA about Barry Bonds and steroids? I had no idea.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  9. Redacting right is HARD by nweaver · · Score: 4, Informative

    Redacting electronic documents right is HARD. See, for example, The NSA's guide to redacting word documents as PDF.

    --
    Test your net with Netalyzr
    1. Re:Redacting right is HARD by fistfullast33l · · Score: 4, Funny

      From the document:

      This page intentionally left blank.

      I was going to say, those guys are goooood.

    2. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 3, Funny

      Turning leaked information back into a secret, that's the HARD bit.

    3. Re:Redacting right is HARD by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      Yeah, except the page isn't blank. Hmmm, sounds like more of that NSA doublespeak to me...

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    4. Re:Redacting right is HARD by quokkapox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Two things: 1) Why not have a handy context menu option, "Redact selection", available with a right click on the selected object? 2) Awwww, the NSA uses the little kitty cat assistant instead of Clippy. Just like my mom. Until I gave her openoffice.

      --
      it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
    5. Re:Redacting right is HARD by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why not have a handy context menu option, "Redact selection"

      Because management and clueless users will demand that there be an "unredact selection" menu option, also. I'll let you sort out the implications of that. Either that or original copies of documents everywhere will have text permanently blocked out by the above-mentioned clueless users and management types.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    6. Re:Redacting right is HARD by More+Trouble · · Score: 4, Funny
      Looks like you're redacting that document. NSA Office Kitty can help! First, tell us what you're trying to hide:

      • gov'ment impropriety
      • financial cheating
      • illicit sex
      • other
    7. Re:Redacting right is HARD by RobertB-DC · · Score: 2, Informative
      Redacting electronic documents right is HARD. See, for example, The NSA's guide to redacting word documents as PDF

      At least it's obvious that the folks who know what they're doing, know that MS products aren't the best solution. From the doc:
      Microsoft Word XP/2003: Microsoft has attempted to remedy certain issues with Metadata in Office XP and up by including a menu option to remove personal information (metadata). There
      is also a tool available for free from MS, Remove Hidden Data 1.0 (for XP) and 1.1 (for Office
      2003), hereafter referred to as RHD, that allows batch removal information from Word
      documents. None of these will remove sensitive information from the main document; neither
      will they remove all metadata of possible concern. And RHD 1.0 suffered from stability issues.
      Reliance of these tools may give a false sense of security.

      The fact that MS tools are in use at all in these situations -- as opposed to free, open-source solutions that can be customized for high security applications -- may show the ineptitude of whatever management keeps signing off on their purchase.
      --
      Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    8. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Pendersempai · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not hard; people just have to manually delete (not obscure) data they want redacted. Then all outgoing Word files should be scrubbed of metadata. There are commercial packages, included in many groupware suites, that do this automatically. At the law firm where I work, every single Word file that gets emailed to an address outside the firm is automatically scrubbed of metadata by the server. If you try to save a document with Track Changes enabled, a dialog box warns you. If you try to email a document with Track Changes enabled, several layers of dialog boxes confirm that this is actually what you wanted to do.

      The procedure you link to has people scrubbing the metadata by copying all the content of the document and pasting it into a new document. This puts too much trust in the user and does not clear some types of metadata anyway.

    9. Re:Redacting right is HARD by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      Hasn't the government been doing that with information previously released under the FOIA? You simply slap a "Classified" or "Top Secret" or whatever stamp on it.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    10. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Nutria · · Score: 1
      Redacting electronic documents right is HARD.

      I wonder if "print to PDF" would successfully redact a document?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    11. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Pendersempai · · Score: 1

      That still wouldn't delete text that you've obscured with a rectangle.

    12. Re:Redacting right is HARD by IDontAgreeWithYou · · Score: 1

      I was right there with you until I noticed the Dixie Chicks link. Actually, I wasn't with you at all, I think that the idea of open source software being customized for specific applications because the source is freely available is severely over rated. I think most companies/governments/people want a solution that works out of the box. Unless they are going to develop an application from scratch, I don't think they want to deal with the source code. That said, I'm surprised that there isn't a piece of software already written for securely redacting legal documents.

      --
      Finding other idiots on /. that agree with your opinion doesn't make it any less stupid.
    13. Re:Redacting right is HARD by IDontAgreeWithYou · · Score: 1

      I should have read further down the thread. There are products available for redacting documents.

      --
      Finding other idiots on /. that agree with your opinion doesn't make it any less stupid.
    14. Re:Redacting right is HARD by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      There is also a tool available for free from MS, Remove Hidden Data 1.0 (for XP) and 1.1 (for Office 2003), hereafter referred to as RHD, that allows batch removal information from Word documents

      That because those aren't for redacting anything, except for a few metadata fields, they're needed because dumb-as-shit Office often likes to include random data inside the files it creates. Sometimes it's previous version of the document, sometimes it's completely random parts of other documents, even non-Office documents. In addition to bloating up files for no logical reason, it also presents interesting security implications.

      I.e., it's not solving the same type of issues as the PDF thing, MS Word documents can still leak data from idiots who think drawing a doc over text is useful. No, it's to solve an entire new problem, one that no one else in the computer industry has ever managed to have.

      Anyone handling secure documents in MS Office should be shot. Anyone with secure documents on their computer shouldn't even have Office on it, because parts of sensitive documents will otherwise secretly end up inside other documents. Then someone says 'Well, I finished the summary for the CIA bribes of foreign government officials to put in the budget, after carefully making sure no one can track the amounts of the individual payments or where they went. I hate using these classifed machines, no internet access. But it's time to transfer this document to a non-classified computer so I put it with the rest of the official CIA budget and print it out. Someone sign off to unlock the floppy drive.(1)' and have the names of a dozen of bribed officials embedded right in there (cause you had that file open at the same time), now sitting in a non-classified documents on a non-classified computer.

      1) I'm just guessing about someone signing off on the floppy, I don't actually know how they move info between their classified and unclassified computers.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    15. Re:Redacting right is HARD by MrCopilot · · Score: 4, Informative
      17 Pages. Note to NSA.

      There is a much Simpler Solution.

      1.)Print Document.
      2.)Locate and uncap Sharpie.
      3.) Blackout Text.
      4.) Scan to DocRedacted.pdf
      Wow less than the average government paragraph. Seems like the way they have been doing it for years why change now?

      --
      OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
    16. Re:Redacting right is HARD by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      And if that doesn't work, there's extraordinary rendition of anyone who got the information before its reclassification.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    17. Re:Redacting right is HARD by secondsun · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a killer feature for OpenOffice.

      --
      There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
    18. Re:Redacting right is HARD by hackstraw · · Score: 1

      At least it's obvious that the folks who know what they're doing, know that MS products aren't the best solution.

      Am I the only one who finds it to be an oxymoron to use MS products AND worry about security?

      And, yes, I practice what I preach.

    19. Re:Redacting right is HARD by sgladfelter · · Score: 1

      Truely, this was my first thought after d/l the NSA instructions also.
      Why is it that tasks that are best accomplished with a sharpie or a pair of scissors and a photocopier are made so complex with text editors and graphic layout programs?

    20. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Odin_Tiger · · Score: 1

      This is what drives me nuts in government, the case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. We have an agency 'A', the sole purpose of which is the study and application of security. Agency 'A' has published a document clearly describing the process of redacting a document for PDF distribution. Also, we have an agency 'B'. Agency 'B' employs at least one individual, whose job (in whole or in part), is to redact documents prior to PDF distribution. How the fuck does it come about that studying the guide from agency 'A' was not a required aspect of the agency 'B's training for the redacter*?

      *This may or may not be a word. I'm not gonna bother looking it up to find out, but I'm sure you know what I mean by it.

      --
      Unpleasantries.
    21. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Printing to PDF won't redact it. Been there done that. There is a product called Redax which plugs into Adobe Acrobat and scrubbs the redacted area and then saves the file into a fresh PDF. I have not yet found a way to resurrect the redacted text when using this product. www.appligent.com

    22. Re:Redacting right is HARD by pclminion · · Score: 1

      It's not that hard. Here's how you do it:

      Edit the PDF to perform your redactions. Just draw black boxes over what you want to redact. Save your changes and open the file in Acrobat (if you redacted in Acrobat, there's no need to save first). Now, open the Print dialog in Acrobat. Set the printer to "Adobe PDF". Now click the Advanced button. Check the "Print as Image" checkbox. Then print the document to a new PDF file.

      The resulting PDF is an image, containing no real text.

    23. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Ansonmont · · Score: 1

      To do it properly, just print out the blacked out/"redacted" version as a hardcopy. Scan back in as a PDF. Done. No metadata, etc.

      -A

    24. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are tools out there that can help detect that you did not redact correctly.
      http://www.purifile.com/

    25. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Pendersempai · · Score: 1

      Of course, then you don't get the benefits of a vector-based pdf: selectable text, better (indeed, arbitrarily good) resolution, small filesize.

    26. Re:Redacting right is HARD by pikayou · · Score: 1

      The figures in that document have the little cat version of clippy enabled...

    27. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Steve001 · · Score: 1

      gEvil wrote and included with the post:

      Why not have a handy context menu option, "Redact selection"

      Because management and clueless users will demand that there be an "unredact selection" menu option, also. I'll let you sort out the implications of that. Either that or original copies of documents everywhere will have text permanently blocked out by the above-mentioned clueless users and management types.

      A simple way around the problem is to design the software so that when you use the "redact selection" option it does not affect the original document. It first creates a copy, closes the original, and then redacts the information on the copy, which remains open. The text in the copy is not mearly made unviewable, it is actually replaced with redaction text/characters/symbols/graphics.

      A weakness I can see of the above is that a user might end up with many copies of the same document as redactions are added to the document. But at least it would ensure that the original would not be affected.

    28. Re:Redacting right is HARD by Bryansix · · Score: 1
      17 Pages. Note to NSA.

      There is a much Simpler Solution.

      1.)Print Document.
      2.)Locate and uncap Sharpie.
      3.) Blackout Text.
      4.) Scan to DocRedacted.pdf
      Wow less than the average government paragraph. Seems like the way they have been doing it for years why change now?


      5.) Open the document in Adobe Proffesional and run OCR on it.

      This last step is required so that the document still has searchable text. Otherwise they might as well release an image of the document. Actually the biggest problem I see is the reliance on the word processor to get rid of the data instead of deleting it in Acrobat Pro where everything is an object already and the formatting will not be screwed up by the deletion of words(if you do it right).
  10. PDF Redaction by Fedallah · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is pretty ridiculous. Products have existed for years to take care of this sort of thing, such as http://www.appligent.com/products/product_families /redaction.php.

    How does this keep happening?

    1. Re:PDF Redaction by mqj · · Score: 1
      How does this keep happening?

      Oh, that's because those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it and those who are knowledgeable of history are doomed... to watch others repeat it.
  11. I wonder how long it'll be... by TWX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...before they are told to just take a print-screen of the document, page by page, then use a graphics program to install the black boxes over words, then import each image as a page into their PDF creator...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:I wonder how long it'll be... by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      ...then import each image as a page into their PDF creator...

      While not a bad suggestion, there is a major problem with it. Many offices will use Paint for this process, with the final image saved as a bitmap. Ever tried making a PDF file out of 8.5x11 inch bitmap images? The resulting filesize tends to be pretty nasty. Of course, there are ways around this, but the requisite knowledge of graphics is far beyond the knowledge necessary to understand that white text is still text--e.g., if you can properly handle this, you can easily handle properly blanking the document in Word.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    2. Re:I wonder how long it'll be... by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 1

      That's overkill. Here's how I personally produce redacted documents: Print the document out. Black-out sensitive information with a black marker on the front and back of the sensitive text. Photocopy the blacked-out printout. Drop the photocopy into the sheet-fed scanner and save as a PDF. You're left with a PDF comprised of images of letters and black blocks, no text whatsoever to be lifted.

    3. Re:I wonder how long it'll be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You're left with a PDF comprised of images of letters and black blocks, no text whatsoever to be lifted.
      Except for statistical attacks based on the width of the black blocks smartass.
    4. Re:I wonder how long it'll be... by value_added · · Score: 1

      ...before they are told to just take a print-screen of the document

      Huh?

      If we're talking about Acrobat, the option to save a PDF as a JPEG, etc. is already provided. Or are we talking about Acrobat Reader? Or an application that generates PDFs? Or just PDFs in general?

      I know the article submitter doesn't know, given the normal PDF browser such as Acrobat statement which suggests to me that he's confusing his web browser with a PDF application.

      That said, I'd like to think that the program used to author the PDF (a Corel program in this particular case) would be the proper place to make redactions or alterations. Alternatively, an after-the-fact hack could by converting the PDF to an image format, but I doubt hitting the print-screen key could be considered anything other than clumsy at best.

    5. Re:I wonder how long it'll be... by nixnutz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you use Group 4 tiff encoding, which is standard in the legal industry, there should be no problem with file size. Clean text like a court filing should be no more than 20-30k per page. This is probably how I would do it; print to tiff (no screenshots of course), import to IPro or whatever and redact (any litigation database software should support redaction), then export PDF again. The problem is that if you need searchable pdf you need to OCR the tiffs at some point after you've redacted them and the quality of the OCR is not as good as extracted text from the original doc.

      I'm sure that in this case whoever redacted the pdf didn't have access to the original file, and while it's easy to draw boxes in Acrobat, there's no easy way to delete the underlying text. Whoever was responsible for this should have had access to the tools to do this correctly, or if not they should have hired a vendor, I think I'd charge about $35 for this job.

      Also, why is this hosted on the SFGate site? Where was it originally?

  12. Re:A redacted document? Say it ain't so! by op12 · · Score: 1

    The document was edited (by the second definition you listed) to put a black bar over some text. What's wrong with that? Replace the word redacted with edited and it makes sense: "...U.S. government apparently releasing a redacted version of their court filing in the Balco grand jury leak case which merely stuck a black line over the text"

  13. Copy? Paste? by TheCarp · · Score: 1

    Shit... use the default pdf viewer in ubuntu evince 0.5.2

    Just select the text and bang,.... there it is for reading.

    -Steve

    --
    "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    1. Re:Copy? Paste? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, pdftotext (http://poppler.freedesktop.org) does't care either. I wonder wheater google would index the file correctly and leak the content in html output :)

      /nogo

  14. Nice and secure. Riiiiggght... by blcamp · · Score: 3, Interesting


    Really nice to know that these folks has taken an apparent cue on safe and secure documents from the folks in Redmond.

    On a serious note... this is seriously scary. Imagine if the NSA and other agencies are redacting all of their documents this way an passing them around the world to field offices, embassies and elsewhere.

    Imagine the implications during legal proceedings here in the States. Yikes.

    --
    The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
    1. Re:Nice and secure. Riiiiggght... by DarkVader · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is NOT scary. This is refreshing.

      I would much prefer my government be unable to successfully keep secrets from me.

    2. Re:Nice and secure. Riiiiggght... by AB3A · · Score: 1

      Then, I suppose you wouldn't care if court documents "accidentally" were released with your name, social security number, date and place of birth, driver's license number and mother's maiden name on it.

      While I think we can all agree that document redaction is sometimes abused, that does not mean there is no good reason for your government to redact information from court papers. Even in the Balco case, there is a presumption of innocence before guilt. The release of such information makes it that much harder to find impartial jurists, and places all the court proceedings of this case in jeapordy.

      --
      Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
    3. Re:Nice and secure. Riiiiggght... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. The NSA (for better or worse) isn't that dumb. This is, however, an excellent way to intentionally leak information from any agency that wants to publicize something without publicizing that fact that it's being intentionally released.

  15. blonde joke by k4_pacific · · Score: 4, Funny
    Q: How can you tell when a blonde NSA agent has been redacting PDFs?

    A: There is magic marker ink all over the screen!

    --
    Unknown host pong.
    1. Re:blonde joke by monoqlith · · Score: 1

      Ha ha! Like the NSA hires blondes!

  16. And these are... by jimktrains · · Score: 1, Interesting

    And these are the people we are suppose to be entrusting our government too? I have never understood why people are so damn lazy that they can't do a little research into what they are doing. People juat want results, not knowlege about what they are doing.

    If you want my opinion (or even if you don't...:-p) this is the achelle's(sp) heel of our society today, most people are lazy bastards that just want to get done with somethign without learning anything about it. People just want to finish school to get a degree and do whatever. This is BS. That takes moeny from people like me who want a PhD (I'm an undergrad at the momenet) in a research science (bio, chem, and/or the computational varients of them), but can't get enough money to even pay tuition and buy the books I need. I would more than gladly work for the school to do it, but money is tight and work-study is hard to come by here.

    Another thing that pisses me off is incopetence. This article is a good example. Getting a few days to a week of for St. Patriks day is another (who the hell gets of for St. Pat's day?). I wish I had the time to do an indepth study of stupid laws that take up time in congress. Stupid piggy basks attached to laws (one was mentioned yesterday on /.) and just stupid things the legeslator has done. I would love to right a research report and send it to newspapers and my congressmen. I would even GNUFDL it so others could do the same...:-p (you know, since PD doens't exist, another thing....)

    So yeah, in conclusion, someone without computer experince was told to do somethign, did it without thinking or asking (my gf would at least ask if she has to do something she's unsure about, then it becomes the attoney's fault, not her's) someone else who should know more.

    --
    "You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm." - S. G. Colette
    1. Re:And these are... by wolenczak · · Score: 1

      Don't mind getting into a PhD, it is not only about money, with your orthography (or careless writting) you would have your teachers all over you the very first day.

    2. Re:And these are... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want people to do something well, it has to be something they really want to do... not some kind of stupid job, or a job they didn't really want to do... Even if they do it well, it would still be slavery, and nothing more.

      There is indeed *a lot* of incompetence, in today societies... We all are confronted, everyday, to dozens of stupid problems, because others aren't doing or didn't do their job well...

      It won't change without changing everything else.

    3. Re:And these are... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If you want my opinion (or even if you don't...:-p) this is the achelle's(sp) heel of our society today, most people are lazy bastards that just want to get done with somethign without learning anything about it.
      I love how you are berating people for being lazy, yet you are too lazy to take a couple seconds to go figure out how to spell Achilles' correctly even though you knew you were spelling it wrong.
    4. Re:And these are... by drc500free · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "If you want my opinion (or even if you don't...:-p) this is the achelle's(sp) heel of our society today, most people are lazy bastards that just want to get done with somethign without learning anything about it."

      "Another thing that pisses me off is incopetence."

      Oh, the irony.

    5. Re:And these are... by jimktrains · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      This replies to a few below me too...

      I know, it is ironic that I won't take the time to spell-check a quickly typed rant on a /., but I bash people for not caring and being lazy intellectually. I bash people for not wanting to learn. I bash people for thinking that they are better than everyone else and above the rules. I bash people for not paying attention to details in code. I bash people for hurrying through an important job just to get done.

      I'll try better next time; I'll spell-check quickly types, unimportant documents next time. I promise.

      (Let me guess, everyone here types perfect English on AIM too?)

      --
      "You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm." - S. G. Colette
    6. Re:And these are... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The irony here is that you're complaining about people being "so damn lazy that they can't do a little research" when you haven't taken the (very small) amount of time researching how to correctly spell Achilles.

    7. Re:And these are... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd definitely call this a limitation of the technology, and not a problem with the people. The user experience here is horrible because something totally different happens when they cover the text than expected (it does not change the text into an image under the box and write the rest of it around it).

      Yes, it would be nice if people looked before they did this stuff, but it would also be nice if the PDF writer blocked the text as every unexperienced user expects (obviously).

    8. Re:And these are... by jimktrains · · Score: 1

      OK guys, I've learned my lesson....

      (really, I'm not just mocking. I need to pay more attention to what I am bad at...)

      --
      "You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm." - S. G. Colette
    9. Re:And these are... by TheBrakShow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have never understood why people are so damn lazy that they can't do a little research into what they are doing. People juat want results, not knowlege about what they are doing.

      You mean like when people are too lazy to spell check their posts on Slashdot? Look, most people can usually excuse spelling and grammar mistakes but your argument would be much stronger without the brazen hypocrisy.

  17. The New Way for Gov't Transparency by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I love this idea.

    Leave PDF the way it is. In fact, make it really hard to actually redact something, but put a tool front-and-center that looks like its redacting something.

    Then - remove any delete capability from Outlook. Trash is fine, but not delete.

    Then - configure all Windows machines to be inherently wide open, so that we may all peer into gov't computers. Oh wait, this is already true.

    Sometimes I think those in positions of high gov't power should forfeit practically all privacy for the duration of their term. Put a webcam on these fuckers 24/7. Does that sound... draconian? Unreasonable? Maybe. But after losing billions of dollars in things like Iraq military contract debacles, I don't trust any of these people. They certainly don't trust us.

    --
    If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    1. Re:The New Way for Gov't Transparency by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 1

      I've been marked Troll by a Troll! I'm meta-trolled! I guess I was a little too flip for the moderator. I did have a point about government transparency in there.

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
  18. Someone missed the memo by Tozog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here's how the NSA recommends redacting files:

    http://www.nsa.gov/snac/vtechrep/I333-TR-015R-2005 .PDF

    1. Re:Someone missed the memo by Neil+Watson · · Score: 2, Funny

      The animated moggie Word assitant really adds a professional touch ;)

    2. Re:Someone missed the memo by ardent · · Score: 0

      Haha! He's using office buddy!

  19. Pretension by GonzoTech · · Score: 2, Funny
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/ a/2006/06/21/MNGUAJI4B85.DTL&o=0 The two reporters "are the only individuals, other than the leaker himself, who would have personal knowledge of the leaker's identity," Hershman and Raphael said.

    Is it just me or do they look a little pretensious?

    --
    "Snatching defeat from the mouth of victory on a daily basis."
  20. Funniest post ever!!! by technoextreme · · Score: 1
    Redacting electronic documents right is HARD. See, for example, The NSA's guide to redacting word documents as PDF.

    Im reading the instructions and skimming through them and what do I see?? A bretheren of clippy. At one point it seems like she/he is writing down all the secrets. Either one of two things is going on. The document is a fake or I should join the government because they need all the help they could get.
    --
    Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
  21. That's the problem with these powerful formats by hey! · · Score: 2, Informative

    Like .doc, .pdf, and AFAIK the opendoc format.

    It's the same old story as with operating systems or anything else: features are usually either a plus or a "don't matter", except when serious security issues are involved, in which case you can't always predict what is benign, whether in and of itself or in combination with other features. Adobe tried to position PDF for all kinds of other things like portable forms and collaboration, but obviously their users are running into the same problems ad MS Word users have with leaking sensitive information.

    What there should be is a standard document format for outside release of legal or sensitive documents, that doesn't have any features that could be inadvertantly used. Maybe it is RFT or a stripped down PDF; but something where you can tell the intern to release this press release, and not count on him being smart enough to check for hidden comments and workflow information. It sould be WYSIAYG -- what you see is ALL you get -- and any additional features, other than possibly a small and well defined set of metadata, should parse as an error.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:That's the problem with these powerful formats by mcmonkey · · Score: 1
      Maybe it is RFT or a stripped down PDF; but something where you can tell the intern to release this press release, and not count on him being smart enough to check for hidden comments and workflow information. It sould be WYSIAYG -- what you see is ALL you get -- and any additional features, other than possibly a small and well defined set of metadata, should parse as an error.
      You mean like plain text (txt)?
    2. Re:That's the problem with these powerful formats by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's not a problem of the format, per se, but one of the tools producing the
      results in question and a mis-understanding of what is actually being done by the
      people using the tools. In the case of PDF, ODF, MS Office, etc. the type of redactions
      done happen to only work if your app 100% honors the concept of a redaction- but it
      doesn't mean you can't have redactions. Nor does it mean you can't have portable
      imaged documents in electronic format that can't be usefully redacted.

      Take TIFF for example. If you redact a TIFF document, you can still have the redacted
      content present in the document in a locked by encryption bitmap annotation that can
      be dropped on top of the rendering if your app supports the annotation type. If it
      can't or you don't have the key to unlock the bitmap annotations, you get just the
      redacted document as a rendering- period. The same can be done with PDF and other
      document formats, but unless someone thinks about this and produces the desired formatting
      and engine to work with it, you're going to keep getting results like this.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    3. Re:That's the problem with these powerful formats by hey! · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's not a problem of the format, per se, but one of the tools producing the
      results in question and a mis-understanding of what is actually being done by the
      people using the tools.


      Well, that's the point. The one thing you can count on with people is that they will, a certain percentage of the time.

      The idea is that the "format" wouln't have to be an actual, new format. It would by convention have no hidden information in it, and any tool saving in the "format" would strip out anything not explicitly allowed by the standard. Then, to enforce the standard, any tool opening a file in the format would put up a warning that the file contains information not allowed by the standard. That way when people do their last minute check of the data before sending it out, they'll know that somebody simply renamed the file from "pressrelease.pdf" to "pressrelease.rel", and didn't do a proper "save-as".

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  22. Yeah, cut them some slack by shrubya · · Score: 1

    You gotta give those poor cubicle folk some credit for trying ... at least they aren't putting Wite-Out on the screen, right?

    Seriously though, if the government gets TOO embarrassed about this sort of thing, they'll do something even more stupid, and mandate all official documents to use some proprietary DRM/TPM/HDCP/BVD format that only Windows Vista can display.

    1. Re:Yeah, cut them some slack by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 1

      They could never do that. Something called the Americans with Disabilites Act would get in the way.

      --
      Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
  23. Adobe can come out of this smelling like a rose! by Laura_DilDio · · Score: 3, Funny

    Add a "redact" tool to the existing toolbar!

  24. Hush! Hush! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why are we publicizing this flaw? We have a US Government in power that increasingly wants to peer into the lives of innocent citizens, while becoming less transparent itself in order to cover up deceit, fraud, abuse, and just plain bumbling incompetence. If these Keystone Kops want to believe that they are criminal masterminds, let them, but don't help them actually cover stuff up!

    1. Re:Hush! Hush! by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      The U.S. government already know about this "flaw" are are using it for FUD. In one of the most recent documents they released this way, the redacted bits actually bolstered their case. They knew damn well that people would be able to read it. They WANTED THEM TO.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  25. I've seen something similar already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read about "track changes" in Word - I've been given Word documents with the classified bits supposedly deleted; but flip the "track changes" drop-down to "original" and Presto! there it all is.

    Posting anonymously for good reason....

  26. This frightens me!!!!! by waif69 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Having worked for the gov't and knowing that some documents that I have signed and worked on should be redacted, this scares the crap out of me. It's not that I did anything that was illegal or "evil" as google would put it, I just don't want the "bad guys" (terrorists, etc.) knowing my name is attached to anything that resulted in their cohorts arrested or killed on the battlefield (also includes CONUS since 9/11).

    Normal average government workers should NOT be redacting, the people who redact should be those who know that if they screw-up, they may be screwing themselves or good friends in the process. Have people do it(redact) who have something to lose.

    Just my 2 cents.

    1. Re:This frightens me!!!!! by dinsdale3 · · Score: 3, Funny
      I just don't want the "bad guys" (terrorists, etc.) knowing my name is attached to anything that resulted in their cohorts arrested or killed on the battlefield
      Its a good thing you haven't told anyone, then.
    2. Re:This frightens me!!!!! by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      "if you've done nothing wrong, you should have nothing to hide from or fear, RIGHT???"

      that's what the gov tells us. at every turn, these days.

      wait, you mean that doesn't fly FOR the gov?

      special cases for the gov? gov above the laws it, itself, creates?

      HOW could that have happened??

      (we must need MORE laws then. that's always the answer. and more cowbell, too, while we're at it).

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:This frightens me!!!!! by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Having worked for the gov't and knowing that some documents that I have signed and worked on should be redacted, this scares the crap out of me.

      Which is exactly what is wrong with the Federal government, you God damned coward. Grow a fucking spine or resign and let someone less cowardly do what needs to be done.

      You do realize Americans are being beheaded, bombed, shot, and tortured in Iraq because of your and your colleagues' cowardly incompetence?

      Yeah go ahead and mod me flamebait, but I'm a USAF vetran who volunteered for South East Asia during the Vietnam war (and had my SSN stolen out of some asshat's computer, probably this guy) and fucking pussies like him make me want to puke.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    4. Re:This frightens me!!!!! by G-funk · · Score: 1

      Above the law? Above the law? Son, it's 2006. The US government is even above the secret laws! Let alone the regular old "subject to constitutional challenge" laws you get to read about.

      --
      Send lawyers, guns, and money!
    5. Re:This frightens me!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What frightens me is this:

      I've only worked in the same -complex- as people with security clearances and it was still part of a contract I had to sign before my first day that no one, regardless of clearance or lack of, should ever imply to -anyone- that they worked in any way with restricted information.

      Then, I endlessly see people that are actually on payroll at defense contractors or gov's who willfully parade this sort of stuff around.

      For goodness' sake, people, at least pretend that you're competent and care in the slightest about your job and the terms to which you've agreed. Either that, or put yourselves on a big list to make hiring, firing, and firing squad decisions easier.

    6. Re:This frightens me!!!!! by waif69 · · Score: 1

      You truly are ignorant as to what this world has become aren't you. It is us against the radical islamists, (those who follow Muhammad's teachings) and anyone who has children doesn't want them targeted just because their parents did their job in keeping the nutjobs in the Middle East from coming over to the US again.

      USAF vetran(sic), ha! You clearly are the type that made us sick, in the Army, you didn't do squat, just sat on the sidelines and let the real servicemen do the work then come home and say, oh it was so hard for us.

      Don't associate me with those who screwed up the redactions, my group never had any of those problems, but we may be at the mercy of those who were/are incompetent. As for the a$$wipe that had our SSN's in an unencrypted format in a location where they never should have been, I'm sure any VFW Post would be more than happy to take care of him.

      If you don't like what I stated, to F'ing bad, the world has changed and right or wrong, the bad guys could be your next door neighbor. Suck it up and drive on. One more thing, drink water and change your socks.

    7. Re:This frightens me!!!!! by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      You truly are ignorant as to what this world has become aren't you. It is us against the radical islamists, (those who follow Muhammad's teachings) and anyone who has children doesn't want them targeted just because their parents did their job in keeping the nutjobs in the Middle East from coming over to the US again.

      No one in North America has died in a terrorist attack in five years. Thousands and thousands have died in their cars. Get a sense of perspective, that dumb blond in the SUV yakking on her phone is more likely to kill your family than a terrorist.

      Those who follow Muhammad's teachings don't kill, any more than those who follow Christ's teachings kill. Except, of course, the abortion clinic bombers and the state Governors.

      The Muslims aren't against us, the authoritarians are. And I refer to the "Muslim" authoritarians and teh "Christian" authoritarians (Ashcroft, Bush, YOU)

      USAF vetran(sic), ha! You clearly are the type that made us sick, in the Army, you didn't do squat, just sat on the sidelines and let the real servicemen do the work then come home and say, oh it was so hard for us.

      All I can say to that is fuck you, you insignifigant little dickweed. Go cower under your desk. BTW what branch were you in? Oh you weren't, I forgot, you're a fuckless coward.

      Just fuck off, dickweed.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  27. That's just what's called by alewar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Security by obscurity" :)

  28. We have to act! by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Funny
    Clearly, these information leaks are a major security threat that is aided and abetted by these renegade PDF viewers. I'm encouraging my representatives in Congress to introduce a "Digital Millennium Redaction Act" that will prohibit the manufacture, sale, discussion or hyperlinks to any PDF viewers which enable the illicit extraction of redacted data from PDF documents. Such viewers are little more than the preferred tools for information thieves, hiding in the guise of "productivity applications". It's despicable.

    This law would instruct the FCC to create a program to certify approved PDF viewers; such viewers must make it impossible for users to steal the redacted data in a file, along with technical measures to prevent tampering with the viewers by hackers. Certified viewers will be made available to the public by software companies on a list of government-approved PDF vendors. After it becomes illegal to own a non-certified pirate PDF viewer, these dangerous information leaks will thankfully become a thing of the past.

    1. Re:We have to act! by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      You know, that shit isn't really funny anymore because it's true.

      --
      In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
  29. Re:A redacted document? Say it ain't so! by The+Only+Druid · · Score: 5, Informative
    "Redacted" is a legal term of art (i.e. it has a special meaning in the legal context).

    For lawyers/courts/etc., redacted (Per Black's Legal Dictionary) means:
    n), n. 1. The careful editing of a document, esp. to remove confidential references or offensive material. (Cases: Criminal Law 663; Federal Civil Procedure 2011; Trial 39. C.J.S. Criminal Law 1210-1211; Trial 148-153.) 2. A revised or edited document. -- redactional, adj. -- redact, vb.>


    The lesson here is this: if you see a word used in a legal context (or any professional context) and it sounds entirely wrong...ask yourself first whether it might have a special meaning before complaining.
    --
    "Stumble before you crawl"
  30. They're correct. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Their use of redact is completely correct.

    If I am releasing a document for publication and decide to remove information from it, this is redaction. It's editing for publication, which can include the removal of information. It could also include the addition of new information, but that's not what typically happens. Redaction can be a form of self-censorship, but it's not always the same.

    Censorship is when a third party, generally a person in authority, suppresses information which is considered objectionable. The 'authority' can be the same as the author (e.g. 'self-censorship'), or the suppression can be indirect -- it need not be editing per se.

    It's my understanding that "redact" is used only in reference to written documents that are being edited, while 'censor' is more general and can refer to anything. The terms are closely related, especially in their typical use, but they're not exactly the same. "Redact" is actually a more specific and precise word for what's going on in this instance. We can argue about whether censorship is also going on, but redaction definitely is.

    Anyway, arguing about definitions by citing dictionaries is always a bit pedantic, since dictionaries are not authoritative except as a historical reference: they can tell you what a word meant at the time the dictionary was written, but not what it means right now, since a word's definition is determined by its usage. All language is inherently arbitrary: they're just sounds we make or things we write down in order to convey ideas, and the relationship between the sounds/characters and ideas is not fixed, but infinitely variable. If everyone were to decide tomorrow that 'redaction' meant the same thing as 'censorship,' that's what it would mean, and next year's dictionaries would have to be updated to reflect that.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  31. Re:Adobe can come out of this smelling like a rose by ray-auch · · Score: 1


    Kind of kills the market for the third party vendors who already provide tools which do just that.

    Maybe those vendors would have an anti-trust case against Adobe for doing it.

    Would be ironic given Adobe's anti-trust allegations against MS for essentially doing the same thing (adding a "Save as PDF" tool to the MS office toolbar).

  32. Seems to be a common occurrence by milgr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I googled for redacted doctuments, chose some pdfs at random, and found that the text is behind the black bars.

    When I started searching, I googled for redact. There were two ads for products that remove the text from the pdf as well as create the black bar. One made it clear that the text would be inaccessible from hackers.

    So, why aren't these types of tools being used for all redactions?

    --
    Where law ends, tyranny begins -- William Pitt
  33. Congratulaitons. by sammy+baby · · Score: 4, Informative

    Congratulations, Slashdot! The FBI will be along shortly to raid your offices on suspicion of violating the DMCA, the Patriot Act, and probably some other bullshit piece of legislation we don't even know about.

    Oh, yeah - it's a no-knock warrant, so put your pants on now.

    1. Re:Congratulaitons. by botlrokit · · Score: 2, Informative
      The FBI will be along shortly to raid your offices on suspicion of violating the DMCA, the Patriot Act, and probably some other bullshit piece of legislation we don't even know about.

      /. doesn't host with AT&T, so no worries.

    2. Re:Congratulaitons. by Medievalist · · Score: 1
      it's a no-knock warrant, so put your pants on now.
      I take it you did not read the Abu Ghraib report.

    3. Re:Congratulaitons. by BandwidthHog · · Score: 3, Insightful
      /. doesn't host with AT&T, so no worries.
      Doesn’t necessarily matter. Just because I don’t purchase services directly from NSAT&T, that doesn’t mean that my data isn’t flowing through their network at some point on its journey. So while I am immune (for now?) from NSAT&T’s content ownership bullshit, I can’t count on not having them dump my packets into Cheney’s inbox.

      --

      Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
    4. Re:Congratulaitons. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but you are not permitted to discuss what the government might do.

      Show me your papers, citizen!

    5. Re:Congratulaitons. by Lord+of+Hyphens · · Score: 1

      Q: Why is this modded Informative/Insightful in a transparent ploy to get my nick on this comment thread (for the FBI's followup raids upon our homes and workplaces) when Funny seems much more appropriate...

      ...Shit, I fell for it.

      --
      "I've spent my whole life figuring out crazy ways to do things. It'll work." -- Montgomery Scott, "Relics"
  34. Another option to view pdf by b0wl0fud0n · · Score: 1

    Here's a linkto see the pdf in html format (minus the black boxes of course).

  35. Imitation Blonde by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why do geeks assume that everyone else in the world are idiots?
    It is more likely that this "mistake" (wink, wink) was intentional.
    Many here are so smug about how much smarter they are than the poor person who didn't understand how PDFs work. In reality, it is the those smug people that come out looking gullible and naive. Somebody plays a little bit blonde, and you eat right out of their hands.

  36. Re:This proves it: by Svartalf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Excuse me, any electronic format, unless it is a bitmap format, will have this problem unless
    all the viewers 100% honor the redaction as it's intended. In the case of a bitmap format,
    you can burn a black or white rectangle into the original image and then add an annotation
    a la TIFF's annotations that contains the original portion of the image that was redacted
    in an encrypted format so that it's difficult to expose the redaction- IF you need to have
    the redaction exposed. If not, you hand across the redacted image as-is without annotations.

    This has NOTHING to do with PDF or ODF at all- trying to make this a connection to these
    is bogus to say the least. In this case, I believe that the people doing it used the MS Office
    redaction capabilities and then exported the redacted content to PDF, which the export
    carried the same sort of redactions across to the other format. What happened is because
    someone didn't understand the tools they were using, not because of PDF or ODF.

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  37. Re:A redacted document? Say it ain't so! by giafly · · Score: 2, Funny

    If redacting is the "the careful editing of a document", obviously this wasn't a redacted PDF.

    --
    Reduce, reuse, cycle
  38. Acceptance of Risk by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While you make a good point, the people who have to use computers to accomplish their jobs, but do not make an attempt to understand how they work (and just treat them like "black boxes") are taking an enormous risk. They are hitching the metaphorical wagon of their livelihood to a team of horses that they don't know shit about.

    If you were somebody who made your living in television, but didn't understand anything about it, you would likewise be taking a great risk. You might, for instance, look like a big idiot when you show up to work at your anchor desk wearing a horizontally pinstriped shirt (which looks like ass on TV because of the Moire effect between the lines on the shirt and the TV scanlines). If you had understood the technology a little better, you might not have done that. That's a trivial example -- undoubtedly if you were a TV anchor, you'd learn or be told at some point not to wear a shirt like that without having to learn about scanlines -- but I hope you see my point.

    Whenever you use a technology without learning about it, you accept a certain amount of risk. Sometimes, you gamble and win: you just use the technology, get your job done, and nobody's the wiser. You're faster, more efficient, more competitive, you look like a hero to your boss, whatever. But if the technology doesn't work, then you're SOL -- but that's the price you pay for not understanding it. That's the risk you accepted when you said to yourself "eh, I don't really care what goes on inside there."

    In the case of PDF, we have a lot of people using a certain technology without knowing anything about how it works, and thus -- like the TV anchor in his pinstriped shirt (or a weatherman wearing chroma-key blue or green) -- you get these gaffes.

    I'm not saying that everybody needs to learn about how everything they use all day works, down to the bare metal. Virtually nobody needs to know that, except perhaps people who are doing things that are so dangerous that they can't afford to fuck up. However, people should be aware of the tradeoff they're making and the risk they're accepting when they forgo figuring out the internal details of a system and simply accept it as a whole, on faith that it will always work a certain way. As long as people are aware of that decision, and make it consiously, and accept the results, you can't ask for more.

    Generally speaking: faith is a fine thing, as long as you know when you're relying on it. It's when you thought you were relying on something else, and find out that you had nothing but faith, that a problem has occured.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Acceptance of Risk by SydShamino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are hitching the metaphorical wagon of their livelihood to a team of horses that they don't know shit about.

      Millions of Americans hitch the physical "wagon" (or SUV, or sedan, or minivan) of their livelihood to a bundle of "horsepower" that they don't know shit about every single day, and then they drive that wagon at 75 MPH.*

      In the case of their cars, the consequences for misuse are serious injury or death. In comparison, the consequences for learning next to nothing about their computers seem slight.

      * It seems to me that knowing how to redact text in Acrobat is like knowing why you are supposed to turn on your headlights around dusk. Yes, you think you can still see just fine - the headlights are for others to see you. And no, I can't see your dim low-set parking lights if you turn those on alone.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    2. Re:Acceptance of Risk by Nimey · · Score: 1

      {nodnod} Lots of that kind of thick-headed luser around here, even the occasional semi driver. 90+% of them Don't Get It when I off-on my headlights at them, even at dusk or in the middle of a rainstorm.

      If only mounting a machine-gun turret in my car's roof was legal.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    3. Re:Acceptance of Risk by kabloie · · Score: 1


      "If you were somebody who made your living in television, but didn't understand anything about it, you would likewise be taking a great risk. You might, for instance, look like a big idiot when you show up to work at your anchor desk wearing a horizontally pinstriped shirt (which looks like ass on TV because of the Moire effect between the lines on the shirt and the TV scanlines). If you had understood the technology a little better, you might not have done that. That's a trivial example -- undoubtedly if you were a TV anchor, you'd learn or be told at some point not to wear a shirt like that without having to learn about scanlines -- but I hope you see my point."

      Back in the 70s-80s, it was always funny to see the weatherman sporting a tie with any blue on it, because suddenly you could see through his body to the weather map behind him. When I was 8, I'd always watch Flip Spiceland do the weather just for the trippy effects.

    4. Re:Acceptance of Risk by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "...Americans hitch the physical "wagon" (or SUV, or sedan, or minivan) of their livelihood to a bundle of "horsepower" that they don't know shit about every single day, and then they drive that wagon at 75 MPH."

      Goodness...who drives THAT slow?

      :-)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re:Acceptance of Risk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your 100% correct... But I have to add that most people don't use that grey stuff between their ears in the first place, and that the majority of society today is taught at a very early age to let someone else do the thinking for them. eg. watching TV... Stuff like this just proves my theory that 90% of the worlds population are lazy idiots! Remember ignorance can be cured but stupid is forever!

    6. Re:Acceptance of Risk by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "...90+% of them Don't Get It when I off-on my headlights at them, even at dusk or in the middle of a rainstorm."

      So, they don't understand that you're warning them that there is a cop ahead of them with radar?

      :-)

      Hehe...at dark, yes, everyone should know what that means, it is amazing what drivers today (and not necessiarly real young ones) don't know driving courtesy and the rules of the road.

      I'm commuting a lot these days post Katrina...and it seems very few people understand the left lane is the passing lane...get the fsck out of the way of a driver coming up behind you faster than you're travelling. If possible, you should do the majority of your driving on the rt. lane (US). And when you come up behind them, and they don't move (presuming they haven't looked in the rear view in a bit)...many don't understand if you flash your lamps at them, they are supposed to pull to the rt and let you pass....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:Acceptance of Risk by swv3752 · · Score: 1

      That only works if traffic volume is low enough to permit a passing lane. In SWF, we have so much traffic that even our 6 lane roads are jam packed.

      --
      Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
    8. Re:Acceptance of Risk by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I'm commuting a lot these days post Katrina...and it seems very few people understand the left lane is the passing lane...get the fsck out of the way of a driver coming up behind you faster than you're travelling. If possible, you should do the majority of your driving on the rt. lane (US).

      And, I'm equally amazed at how many people are too damned ignorant and intent at driving at Max 0.6 to realize I'm in the middle of fscking passing this guy (as evidenced by the fact that I'm going faster than him), and that fact that you want to go 2x speedlimit vs my 1.2x speedlimit doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to accelerate to your speed to complete my pass, or abandon my pass so you can fly by at insane speeds.

      When I finish passing the guy, I will get out of the passing lane, I've already factored that in. It doesn't mean I'm gonna relinquish the lane to you or speed even more to keep you happy.

      The passing lane isn't a free pass to drive like an asshole at the highest rate of speed you can manage. You need to cut the rest of us some slack when we're actually passing too. I've seen far too many people who, even though I'm in the middle of actually passing cars, expect I just scrape and grovel and get completely out of their fscking way -- those people might see my brake lights rather unexpectedly!

      People are bad drivers on both ends of that spectrum -- both the people who never move, and the people who expect you to move immediately as if they're the friggin emperor or something.
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    9. Re:Acceptance of Risk by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      The problem is, most things, almost all of them in the physical world work as you expect them to. The results from their actions are obvious. I push the channel button on my TV, and the pretty pictures change. I push the gas pedal, the car speeds up. I push the brake, the car slows down. I flick the switch, the lights go on, the vacuum starts making noise, whatever. When these things don't happen, you take it to someone who know how to make it work and they fix it. The only reason I have to know what they did or why is so I don't get shafted.

      The virtual world is totally different. "Why do we have two mouse buttons? When I select the thingy, it should know what I want to do." "You mean the thing I look at all day isn't the computer??" "Exactly how many kinds of RAM do I have in this thing, and why don't they have different names, and why do I care?" "This virtual world is two square kilometers, takes up 2 GB, and fits into my computer how?" "WTF??? I couldn't see the text, why on earth would I think they would be able to read it? WYSI(Less Than)WYG?"

      It's not an intuitive mapping to what we're used to dealing with in the rest of the world, and we need to get used to that. This applies the other way, too. Remember when Apple had pull-out sections on the Quicktime player? Very intuitive from a physical world perspective, but it just doesn't work on a computer screen.

      The real trick is to get people to understand two things about computers: They do what you tell them to, not what you want them to; and, never assume that just because the display looks good that that's the totality of the information contained in something. Good luck with that.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    10. Re:Acceptance of Risk by Excelsior · · Score: 1

      Hmm, it seems to me that some of the fault falls on Adobe, and not solely (or even primarily) the user. Adobe has modelled PDF specifically as a format that is a digital representation of the real document. Unlike other document formats, what you see in Acrobat and Acrobat Reader is exactly what you see when you hit Print. Much the way that user-interface guidelines dictate a one-to-one metaphor between the UI and the system, such as is exhibited by spatial file explorers (Macintosh, Nautilus spatial mode, etc), Adobe makes a one-to-one connection between the physical printed document and the digital version. When I hit print, I soon have the same exact thing in hand.

      Adobe is specifically targetting users seeking this type of physical realism in a document format. They want the lawyers and doctors who need this type of document format, but whom don't necessarily have the most advanced computer knowledge, to buy their product. Especially since that market is much larger than the technical elite. You can't design a product around a target audience of technically ignorant, then fault the audience for their ignorance.

      Software developers need to make software that works as the user expects it to work, not as what makes sense to a software engineer.

    11. Re:Acceptance of Risk by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      This is true. I didn't go into this more in my original post because I felt that the thing was just getting too long, but part of the blame for technological gaffes like this lies on the vendors and designers of the technology. More the vendors than the desigers.

      Too often we see technology -- of whatever sort -- marketed to the public as either literal or figurative 'sealed boxes.' The public is told "you don't really need to know what goes on inside of this! Trust us!" and they basically say OK and use it. When something that's been sold as a black box doesn't function as promised, then you really can't blame the users, since they're going along with how the stuff was represented to them.

      PDF is a little like this: Adobe sells it as a virtual version of paper documents, that you can sign, rubberstamp, mark-up, etc. So when a user goes 'hey, I can draw a black line over text I don't want people to see, just like I can on paper,' they're working within the metaphor that's been sold to them by Adobe (if in fact that's how Adobe represented the product, which I doubt -- I'm sure they're a little more careful). When the e-document doesn't function like paper at all, the user ought to get the benefit of the doubt. At least the first time -- when it keeps happening over and over, then you really can't blame the vendor anymore, since the users aren't learning even after the mistake should be obvious.

      The user still has some blame for swallowing wholesale a new piece of tech without understanding it, and incorporating it into their life -- that's the risk I was talking about earlier -- but you're correct in that this shouldn't absolve the people who market and sold the technology to them in the first place, by telling them it was something that could be used without understanding the internals. (Although on the other hand, it's ultimately very naive to just believe the words that somebody who is trying to sell you something says, without question -- I'd hope we've all learned that by the time we graduate highschool, although I suppose I shouldn't hope for such things.)

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    12. Re:Acceptance of Risk by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Not that it happens that often, but, I do see people that are trying to go faster than me, and I DO try to get over out of their way as quickly as possible.

      At the very least, I'm HAPPY to let people go faster than myself...it means they will run into the cops before I do, and maybe save my ass a ticket....

      So, see..it is not only the courteous thing to do...it is smart.

      I like the rules more like they are on the autobahn...you get ticketed in you don't reasonably yield the left passing lane to a faster traveling auto....it should work the same here too.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  39. Computers are your friend by Black+Parrot · · Score: 1

    ...unless you've got something to hide.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  40. Slashdot Censorship Icon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I selected his face with the cursor in my browser and it turns out he's mouthing an insult to your momma under that black band...

  41. How about less by QuinceyL · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Yuck, who wants to use kpdf, xpdf or gpdf (or adobe!)

    less file.pdf

    no cut and paste necessary.

    Or even better

    less file.pdf > file.txt

    You'll probably have to hit Ctrl-C for a second to get less to quit, I couldn't find an option to do this.

  42. Disability guidelines prohibit rasterized docs. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am pretty sure that rasterized PDF documents violate government disability-access guidelines, since they can't be read with screenreaders, braille terminals, or basically anything other than a set of human eyes (or a good OCR program).

    They would be a lot better off going through the document in Word (or Notepad/Textedit/vi/EMACS/whatever) and just selecting the regions of text that they want to remove, and replacing it with [-- TEXT REMOVED --] or even [REDACTED]. If they were really slick, I'm sure somebody could write a little macro to replace the text with an equivalent number of characters of whitespace or random text or dashes, to preserve formatting. (Okay, so to really preserve the formatting it would have to be replaced with characters that have the same amount width as the deleted characters; maybe there's a font-set containing various widths of whitespace characters that they could use? In TeX it would be trivial.)

    The results would be ugly (but really, were black bars ever very beautiful?) but at least it would actually remove the information, and wouldn't result in an inaccessible, rasterized document.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Disability guidelines prohibit rasterized docs. by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      There are lots of OCR programs out there that'll let you convert a PDF/Doc into image files & back again. Probably the only thing you'd lose in the process are hyperlinks embedded in words.

      Omnipage is one example.
      (I've used their 'lower' end programs PaperPort & PDF Converter)
      Acrobat &/or Acrobat Capture can do the same thing.

      Other than potential workflow interruptions, I can't see any good reason not to go pdf --> image --> pdf.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Disability guidelines prohibit rasterized docs. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      replace the text with an equivalent number of characters of whitespace or random text or dashes

      Or better yet, filled rectangle characters. Then it really will be a black bar replacing actually-redacted text!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:Disability guidelines prohibit rasterized docs. by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 1

      They would be a lot better off going through the document in Word (or Notepad/Textedit/vi/EMACS/whatever) and just selecting the regions of text that they want to remove, and replacing it with [-- TEXT REMOVED --] or even [REDACTED]. If they were really slick, I'm sure somebody could write a little macro to replace the text with an equivalent number of characters of whitespace or random text or dashes, to preserve formatting. (Okay, so to really preserve the formatting it would have to be replaced with characters that have the same amount width as the deleted characters; maybe there's a font-set containing various widths of whitespace characters that they could use? In TeX it would be trivial.)

      So long as they remember to disable Track Changes.

    4. Re:Disability guidelines prohibit rasterized docs. by TempeTerra · · Score: 1
      They would be a lot better off going through the document in Word (or Notepad/Textedit/vi/EMACS/whatever) and just selecting the regions of text that they want to remove, and replacing it with [-- TEXT REMOVED --] or even [REDACTED]. If they were really slick, I'm sure somebody could write a little macro to replace the text with an equivalent number of characters of whitespace or random text or dashes, to preserve formatting.

      You raise an interesting point... surely if you're redacting text you want to REMOVE ALL TRACE of the original text, including the width of the original text. If you don't, wouldn't you open yourself up to the kind of statistical attacks that are used in cryptanalysis?

      For instance, if a name was redacted but you knew the document could only refer to one of a limited number of people you could narrow the options down significantly just by counting the number of characters in the redacted name.

      Actually, I suppose this kind of thing must go on all the time in the intelligence community. If you're redacting a physical copy of a document you certainly won't be able to change the width of the redacted text, which should supply SOME information to a determined reader. Anyone know more about this?
      --
      .evom ton seod gis eht
  43. n00bs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a bunch of two digit wqnkers these Federal bozos are. Not learning from your mistakes is the halmark of an idiot. Haven't they learned from Microsoft Word?

    How to secure a PDF document
    1. Print a hardcopy of the document
    2. Get a magic marker and black out the parts you don't want read
    3. Scan the document as an image (no OCR)
    4. "Print" the scanned image to PDF
    5. ????????
    6. Profit!!!!

    (MRC="hopefuls")

    1. Re:n00bs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow you're a bigger noob.

      How to secure a PDF document
      1. copy the document
      2. DELETE the sensitive information
      3. put -- in where sensitive information was
      4. "Print" the document to PDF
      5. ????????
      6. Profit!!!!

      What moron thinks the only way to do this is only by adding silly black blocks. delete the data and it cant be "discovered"

  44. Clear as Mud by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why doesn't Adobe upgrade their PDF generators to include a "Real Redact" button that actually deletes the redacted data? They could sell it to governments at the usual 1000x government markup rate, and the government would probably still save money vs the fallout from these illusory blackout follies. Neither the government nor Adobe is in the "freedom of information" camp. Maybe the government just refuses to buy an upgrade because that would save money overall.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Clear as Mud by BandwidthHog · · Score: 1

      Maybe because Adobe has their own variation on the Do No Evil doctrine?

      Okay, doubtful. But perhaps some product manager there has intentionally overlooked the issue in a noble effort to hinder the administration’s efforts to pull the world over our eyes?

      --

      Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
    2. Re:Clear as Mud by taustin · · Score: 1

      Why doesn't Adobe upgrade their PDF generators to include a "Real Redact" button that actually deletes the redacted data?

      They already have one: the full version of Acrobat. It's not free.

    3. Re:Clear as Mud by dr_turgeon · · Score: 1

      The linked pdf appears to have been created with _Corel's PDF engine_. Upon opening it in Acrobat, I found the text readily available. And when opening it in a vector program, the black "redaction" boxes are actually UNDER the text!

      --
      This posting is potentially humorous to your head.

      --
      "...objectivity resides in recognizing your preferences, subjecting them to especially harsh scrutiny." -Gould
    4. Re:Clear as Mud by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Maybe these fake redaction follies are just marketing for Adobe's pay version, which some have claimed really deletes the blacked-out data.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    5. Re:Clear as Mud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then the government wouldn't have such a good excuse when it "accidentally" selectively leaks information from "redacted" documents.

    6. Re:Clear as Mud by G-funk · · Score: 1

      That's wool, Ziva. Pull the _wool_ over our eyes.

      --
      Send lawyers, guns, and money!
    7. Re:Clear as Mud by BandwidthHog · · Score: 1

      It was not a typo.

      --

      Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
  45. Command Line Programs; evince by Noksagt · · Score: 2, Informative

    CLI programs are REALLY useful to look at "hidden" content.

    'pdftotext' comes with xpdf & is even available natively on windows.

    Similarly, for MS Word documents, you may use 'antiword', 'catdoc', and 'wv'.

    These programs are quite nice in that they can easily batch-process a lot of documents & then you can go grepping through them for interesting tidbits.

    (On the GUI front, evince deserves a plug. It uses the same poppler backend as xpdf and kpdf. I used to use tiny & fast xpdf for most of my pdf viewing, but evince has a few nice features which xpdf lacks & has become my personal favorite pdf viewer.)

  46. WYSINWYG by Schwarzy · · Score: 1

    What You See Is Not What You Get ...

  47. Common problem with today's UIs by Namlak · · Score: 5, Informative

    The industry at large (Microsoft being a big offender) has been trying to get us to a this magical place where everything is system and location independent and this is where we end up:

    1) FTP sites in Windows Explorer look like regular Windows folders. People expect them to work like regular folders. I had a field sales force try to "share" an Excel spreadsheet expecting the others to get a "Read Only" copy just like would happen on a local network share. Overwriting madness ensued. You can't blame them, there was no indication that it would work differently. Asking them to understand FTP is like accounting expecting me to fully understand the accounting rules behind my IT purchases.

    2) A manager where I used to work had an Excel spreadsheet with payroll data for the entire company. He wanted to send each department their subset of the data. So he filtered his spreadsheet and sent the filtered lists to each department not knowing that he was sending each department the whole list under teh covers. Luckily, the file was 30MB and choked in the mail server and I was able to bail him out of that huge mistake. But you really can't blame him - he saw something on the screen and sent "it". There should be an indication of underlying data. BTW, doing a cut and paste special made each file about 25k or so.

    Same thing with this PDF error. If your file shows certain information, it should contain that information only or indicate (or warn) otherwise.

    By "simplifying" everything, nobody knows what's really going on. A couple times per week I have to explain some type of issue to some user about how "It's really more complicated than that, see Windows (or an app) hides this from you." User roll eyes as their simple task has become obscurely complicated - all in the name of making things "easier" to understand, ironically.

    If something works different, it should be displayed different - that at least gives the user a chance to question what they are doing.

    1. Re:Common problem with today's UIs by BandwidthHog · · Score: 2, Interesting
      So he filtered his spreadsheet and sent the filtered lists to each department not knowing that he was sending each department the whole list under teh covers.

      I use that feature quite often and it was only yesterday that I noticed that the little triangle turns from black to dark blue when you’re viewing a filtered set. All this time I was thinking there really ought to be some sort of visual indication (other than the wonky row numbers).

      --

      Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
    2. Re:Common problem with today's UIs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although to some extent I agree, I think most people that are designing software kind of assume that people have developed that sense of "just because I can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there". Like when I put one book on top of another on a desk. I may not be able to see the first book anymore, but I know it's there because I recall putting another book on top of it and know that obscures it from view. Just because a Word document is 2-D in appearance doesn't mean stacking can't occur, and users should realize that putting two boxes on top of each other doesn't cause one to eliminate the other, it just obscures it from view temporarily.

    3. Re:Common problem with today's UIs by TA_TA_BOX · · Score: 1

      When Vista is released Adobe should come out with just as many versions of Acrobat. They should have a special 'government' edition. There is a button up on the toolbar, that says 'blackout' they press that and can blank out any of the secret data they want to hide.

    4. Re:Common problem with today's UIs by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      GAA Excel should not be used for payroll, use a proper database and stuff like that won't happen.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    5. Re:Common problem with today's UIs by Namlak · · Score: 1

      I agree with you - allow access per user as required from a central repository.

      The data was stored in a proper enterprise system, the manager exported a report to Excel in order to distribute - nothing I can do to prevent stupidity with information rightfully obtained...

    6. Re:Common problem with today's UIs by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      I would say this is a problem of half-simplification. If an FTP folder is to look like a real folder, then it should work like one too. Or at least like a network share. Same with those "compressed folders." What is the point of having an Explorer-looking window where you can't so much as Open With a file inside it?

      And for your Excel sheet, any action that requires serializing a filtered or partially-hidden file (be it Excel filtering or Word hidden text or whatever) should pop up a dialog "Would you like to serialize [send, save, print, whatever] the entire file or only the visible parts?" - just like they do with printing a document with a selection on it.

      And if the PDF editor doesn't make it clear that the text remains under the black rectangle, then the distiller should optimize that text away.

    7. Re:Common problem with today's UIs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Users dont' think like that. They see Word as a virtual sheet of paper, and when you draw a black box over something on paper, the text disappears. And if they put a black box on something, it is because they want it to be there. I understand why they didn't expect that Word kept the original text, because it should be part of the "sheet of paper".

  48. Xpdf and KPDF by jdavidb · · Score: 1

    This works with Xpdf and KPDF, too

    Yes, but if I'm that fortunate, I'll be scripting the whole thing with a call to ps2ascii.

  49. Re:This proves it: by DragonWriter · · Score: 1
    Excuse me, any electronic format, unless it is a bitmap format, will have this problem unless all the viewers 100% honor the redaction as it's intended.
    Well, no, the problem is not with the format, true, but its also not with the viewer. It's with the editor (by which, to be clear, I mean the "person doing the editing" nor the "software used to do the editing". Redacting by placing a graphic over the text is a naive extension of a practice which doesn't even work that well with hardcopy (you've usually got to photocopy the marker-redacted version to have a decent chance of producing a copy where the text isn't readable). Its certainly inappropriate in an electronic context (now, true, bitmap format, or a vector format created by a tool that had smart optimization that removed information that didn't effect the final view would let that technique work). Instead, the text should be replaced with something that indicates that material has been removed.
  50. Anyone think this may have not been an acident? by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone think that this may not have been an oversight, and that someone knew the geeks would figure it out (like we did before) and wanted it to be leaked??? I know it's giving someone a lot of credit, but stranger things have happened...

    --
    "But this one goes to 11!"
    1. Re:Anyone think this may have not been an acident? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever heard about Occam's razor?

    2. Re:Anyone think this may have not been an acident? by Azuma+Hazuki · · Score: 1

      I have to side with the "tinfoil" crowd on this: our President may be an idiot himself but the rest of the government is not. They are intellignet...very, very intelligent. It also takes a certain mindset to do well in the ultra-high-security arena, the kind of mindset that uses misinformation and purposeful leaks as standard tools of the trade. This looks like a perfectly-executed bait-and-switch, and people are playing right into their hands. Critical thinking is a must, people!

      --
      ~Eien no Inori wo Sasagete~ Searching for my Hatsumi...
  51. Circumvention by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If black squares count as a "technical measure" protecting access to a work... ? Someone actually should go ahead and launch this suit, to draw attention to the DMCA's shittiness.

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:Circumvention by jZnat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think that court documents like these are copyrighted, so you can't even apply the DMCA to it. The leading source of public domain material these days seems to be the government itself...

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    2. Re:Circumvention by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      If you really want to get technical, subpeonas and other court documents are a matter of public record, unless sealed by a judge. The accessibility of these documents is one reason why the Bush administration wanted military tribunals for accused terrorists; they did not want any classified information or intelligence agency procedure to become a part of the publicly-available court proceedings.

      If a judge's order is violated, there are laws covering contempt and other sorts of malfeasance besides the DMCA.

      While I understand the DMCA is evil according to slashdot, it's not the only law on the books (and certainly not the only stupid one).

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
  52. NSA procedure sucks! by ukemike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They say you should open the original document in Word and EDIT the document by replacing the redacted text with a bunch of X's then print it to a PDF. That's a fundamentally different process than redacting. It's editing, and the temptation to ALTER the document would be huge. Also what would you do if you don't have the original Word document?

    Doing it right isn't so hard. You want to end up with a graphical only PDF of the document that has been redacted. (I can't believe I'm about to give the NSA good advise on how to keep secrets!)

    Use acrobat to mark out all of the evidence of your wrongdoing (oops I meant mark out anything classified...) Save it. Open it in a third party pdf program like FoxitPDF reader. Print it to a new pdf file using you PDFwriter of PDFdistiller print driver. You should now have a completely graphical pdf with no embedded text in the file. This is just as good as printing it, redacting it, then scanning it (which would be another good procedure.)

    It may look all blocky and pixelated but redacted documents from the government always look like crap.

    --
    -- QED
    1. Re:NSA procedure sucks! by wiredlogic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      FWIW you could very easily write up some VBA code that converts highlighted text (maybe just one specific color like red) into Xs. Then you would just have to highlight the redacted sections and run the macro when you're finished. The highlighting could be optionally kept in place to make it more visible in the PDF. It also would be useful for an actively changing document to make the author more aware of where the sensitive bits are.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
  53. MS Word Redaction Tool by blackstripe · · Score: 5, Informative

    Assuming the original document was in Word format, I'm surprised they didn't use Microsoft's freely available redaction add-in.

    1. Re:MS Word Redaction Tool by multimed · · Score: 1

      Probably not a good assumption - believe it or not, many court systems still use WordPefect for legal documents for a variety of reasons. I have no idea to what extent that's changed but it wasn't that long ago that it was a large majority of them using WordPerfect.

      --
      Vote Quimby.
    2. Re:MS Word Redaction Tool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Hmmm, checking the PDF document properties, it looks like it was created with a Corel product (don't forget, document properties can leak information too).

  54. Try KWord Import by AaronW · · Score: 1

    Even better: just import into kword. All the redacted text magically appears right in your word processor. No copy/paste necessary.

    KWord can import PDF files directly into a document.

    -Aaron

    --
    This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    1. Re:Try KWord Import by jdavidb · · Score: 1

      That would require me launching a GUI and a word processor, when I'd rather redirect the output of ps2ascii to a file and hack at it in vi. :)

  55. For the last friggin time - it's COPY and paste!! by storemike · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    For all the dipshits out there who don't know the difference between cut and copy, here are the basics: Cut deletes the selected text while saving a copy of it in the clipboard. Copy just copies the selected text to the clipboard. If the original or source text remains unchanged, you are not cutting, you are copying. Saying cut and paste is about as intelligent as my former boss saying that he had to "flush" [sic] out the development plans. Oh, and, by the way, more/most + adjective = comparative/superlative case 99% of the time. More simple and most deadly are about as wrong as Bush's presidency.

  56. The solution is simple. "Save As Redacted" on the. by arthurpaliden · · Score: 1

    The solution is simple. "Save As Redacted" on the file menu which would save the file as a graphic or set of graphics within a PDF file structure.

  57. Re:This proves it: by ThePelt · · Score: 2, Funny

    )

    that is all

  58. Cool by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    If you cut and past the text from that PDF, it tells you where they buried Jimmy Hoffa!

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  59. Word Read Only Option by BodhiCat · · Score: 1

    This is like the Read Only option in M$ Word. All you have to do is save it under another name, make any changes, then give the file the original name. It doesn't add any security and only makes it more difficult to make changes for someone authorized to make changes. They use this all the time at my office as if it makes the document more secure.

  60. why's u tell them about this?? by pxuongl · · Score: 1

    seriously... why'd u let the cat out of the bag? there should've been an agreement amongst all nerds and geeks not to have told anybody about these blacked out pdf's... so when the NSA does release their pdf's about jfk and the roswell aliens, we would've been able to read it all in plain text

    1. Re:why's u tell them about this?? by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Dude, this has happened over and over again. Note the title of this article: "More PDF Blackout Follies." I think it's safe to assume that if they didn't learn from the last ten thousand fuckups, they won't learn from this one.

  61. Hex editor by purduephotog · · Score: 1

    Frankly it doesn't matter- if you've got a hex editor, you can see the data, even if all PDF clients enforce the edit.

  62. mistaken pedantry by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

    "Saying cut and paste is about as intelligent as my former boss saying that he had to "flush" [sic] out the development plans."

    No, not if you look at the origin of the term. Yes, people originally did physically cut sections of text and paste them to other sections of text for a typist to retype. Cut-and-paste can refer to the entire set of operations that can be performed using cut/copy and paste tools. Also, yone should not use [sic] outside of a quotation -- it is used to indicate that the error was not in the quoting, but in the original speech. In this case, you are paraphrasing, and the quotation marks serve the purpose of indicating that it was his words, and not your misinterpretation.

    "More simple and most deadly are about as wrong as Bush's presidency."

    'Most deadly' is an acceptable superlative, though not the most common.

    Oh, and your use of 'wrong' is incorrect -- wrong should not be used to modify 'presidency' in this sense -- your meaning is unclear. When 'wrong' is used as an adjective, it is meant to differentiate between two or more possibilities that relate to a given condition.

    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and taking the pedantry that far (especially when you are incorrect, as there are often uncommon, but acceptable, usages of which you are not aware) is ridiculous.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  63. Save as Text by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why go through the trouble to cut/paste. It works just fine in Acrobat to do a "save as text".

  64. MOD UP FOR GOD'S SAKE by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    This is perfect. No need to worry about god-awful-slow page-reflows in long documents (which is a seperate MS Word issue but what can you do).

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  65. Or just may be... by wbean · · Score: 1

    Or just maybe the UI is fine and the user selected exactly the tool he/she wanted.... This is a case about leaks, after all.

  66. On Purpose? by Pahroza · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wonder whether it's possible some of the people doing this really want the truth to come out? That someone "accidentally" screwed this up?

    Oh, wait, we're talking about the government?

    Nevermind.

    1. Re:On Purpose? by baggins2001 · · Score: 1

      For those of you outside the US. Please remember that Jerry Springer and the US government does not represent the people that live in this country, despite what the constitutional document says.
      Washington DC too small to be a state too large to be an asylum for the mentally deranged.
      Maybe we should ask people in other countries what they do with their insane people. Maybe they have a better plan.

      --
      He who said 1,000,000 monkeys on 1,000,000 typewriters would eventually type the great novel, never saw an AOL chat room
  67. DMCA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you undertake measures to read what's been blacked out, are you violating the DMCA? Aren't those blackouts intended to conceal something? And you are intentionally circumventing them? Illegal, no? I sure hope this is pursued in court.

  68. They probably use a tool that doesn't work by ben+there... · · Score: 1

    They used a poor (specialized) tool for the job, judging by the redacting application linked in this comment, which is described as:

    Appligent's redaction products completely remove content from the data stream, unlike other solutions that merely hide the information under black bars. Since the content is no longer in the document, snooping or hacking into the file cannot reveal the redacted information.

    So the problem is likely that they used a tool that was designed for the task of redacting, but the tool doesn't work as it should.

  69. Biz opportunity (for Adobe or others) by khb · · Score: 1

    Clearly, there is a market for a "redaction tool" easy to use, and "failsafe" (viz. should not just overwrite the text, it should remove it appropriately and replace the area of the text with blackout material for "the record").

    How come Adobe (or others) aren't marketing such a tool?

  70. Evince goes one better by Bill+Hayden · · Score: 2, Informative

    Using Evince, GNOME's document viewer, you don't even have to copy to another document. Merely selecting the "redacted" text shows the actual text.

    --
    Protect your browser with the Force Safe Search add-on
  71. Redacting != destroying by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

    If it's the MS implimentation, it usually mutilates documents beyond usefulness. That's close to what the NSA usually does, but not the legal requirement.

  72. Let me guess: by pclminion · · Score: 1

    They're gonna blame this on Adobe or the PDF format itself.

  73. Blame the management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    20-odd years ago, would-be employees put basic IT-skills on CV's and were asked about these skills at interview. Nowadays, if you go for a white collar job it's assumed that you have basic word/excel/ppt skills. Problem is, the vast majority of people can tip-tip-tap on a keyboard but how many have had any kind of formal training in even basic IT skills? It beggars belief just how inefficiently people use computers to perform even simple tasks. Don't believe me; show someone one of the more common keyboard shortcuts in Word or Excel and watch their eyes glaze over. Then ask him or her if they know how to program the clock on their VCR. The world is full of luddites who just don't have the motivation/drive/opportunity/encouragement to learn how to use IT systems properly.

  74. Proper way to conceal information... by InvisibleSoul · · Score: 2, Funny

    Those ignoramuses!

    The proper way to conceal the information is to apply white out on the monitor!

  75. Obligatory Granpa Simpson: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!"

  76. FoxIt Reader works well too.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been using the free FoxIt Reader as my permanent replacement for the free Adobe Acrobat Reader on Windows. It owns. Here is a link: http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php It's very light, and is downloaded as one executable (zipped up, no crappy setup). It supports the highlight and copy for the "blacked out" text.

  77. My dell laptop is keeping me warm too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh man, that brings back some memories! Late nights cranking out code on my Bunyan 2500 - that puppy went through three cords of oak a week, and it kept the place warm to boot.

    My modern Dell laptop can do that too, and it doesn't even need wood! Technology!

    http://www.theinquirer.org/?article=32550

  78. "The Simpsons" did it! by LanceUppercut · · Score: 2, Funny

    This reminds me of the Homer Simpson's "Mister X" Web site :)

  79. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  80. Sorry, I'm off topic here but... by sm62704 · · Score: 1

    Your sig: "If only we could make stupidity more painful..."

    Ignorance can be cured, stupidity is forever. Why make stupidity painful? Better to make ignorance painful.

    They say "ignorance is bliss". I think this needs to change.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  81. Er... pdftotext...? by digital+photo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Okay... this is what is considered secured??

    Using a STANDARD pdf handling tool:
    % pdftotext BALCO_quash_subpoena_sfchronicle.pdf

    From the PDF->TXT file:

    [snipped to first line before the "blacked out section"]

      C. Movants' Efforts to Obtain the Secret Grand Jury Transcripts

    [beginning of first blacked out section]

    Prior to the return of the Balco indictments, the lead defendant, Victor Conte ("Conte"), began to correspond via e-mail with Movants. (See Ex. 1 to Donnelan Aff.). Neither Movants nor Conte attempted to keep their relationship confidential, as the e-mail correspondence routinely was reported by Movants.2 (Exs. 1, 2, 3, and 11 to Donnelan 1

    [... snipped for berevity ...]

    On June 23, 2004, Fainaru-Wada sent an e-mail to Conte indicating that he (Fainaru-Wada) was busy working on some stories that may be "up on the web soon. Hope you like t
    hem." (Ex. T to Hershman Decl.). Conte responded that he was looking forward to seeing the article and that his lawyer would be available for comment. (Id.).

    [end of first blacked out section]

    D. Disclosure of the Montgomery Grand Jury Transcript On June 24, 2004

    [more, but why post it when you can read it yourself!?]

    Okay... WTF!? Doesn't ANYONE check this stuff before it goes out the door!?

    OMG! Wonder if this is how our private documents are "made safe"....

  82. easy Trick to view on Adobe/Win32 --- by iced_tea · · Score: 1

    Right click on the blacked out text starting on page 18 in the document the article links to here.

    A popup menu appears with the phrase "Lookup XXXXX" where XXXXX is the word that is blacked out. Cool, eh? =)

  83. Re:This proves it: by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1

    The only way this should be done where redaction is absolutely required is to completely remove the data from the document. You need to reflow the text as well to obscure the size of the redaction boxes. If it's a proportional font and you know it's kerning properties, you can write an app to determine a list of probable words that would be that length. The best thing to do is to remove the data are replace it with a standard sized REMOVED block or some other token.

  84. Lack of Standards by ClamIAm · · Score: 1

    There are bunch of comments wondering "how can people be so dumb?". I think the problem is a lack of realstandards in software. Microsoft claims .doc is a "standard", when in fact it is only a standard through their marketshare. What I mean by "real standards" is a set of specifications that does not change for the majority of computer users, and is completely free to implement (non-patented, no NDAs).

    This set of standards would encompass things like text, audio, and video. Text would be (hypothetically) plain text, OpenDocument and PDF. These things would be how people work with text 95% of the time, and being open standards, could have training manuals written about their structure, how to work with them, how to protect data that you don't want released, etc.

    Standardization has happened in other industries. I believe the American accounting industry was at one time extremely proprietary in its methods, requiring NDAs for exiting employees, but are now much more standardized in their practices. Unfortunately, I believe I heard this on NPR or something (Google is turning up nothing). Help me out here.

  85. I don't think they're kidding. by deepb · · Score: 0
    Sometimes I wonder if these incidents are really "accidents" or somebody's way of feigning ignorance of technology to get the facts out to the public.
    You obviously haven't worked closely with the US Government before.
  86. Oh, the irony... by Wolfger · · Score: 1

    My favorite blacked-out text:
    "I've become somewhat paranoid about e-mail these days. My wild imagination at work."