The First Blu-ray Burner, Pioneer's BDR-101A

mikemuch writes "ExtremeTech has a review of Pioneer's BDR-101A-- the first Blu-ray burner available. The drive can do anything with CDs, is kind of slow with DVDs, and doesn't support double-density Blu-ray media, but hey, it's a start, and can burn 25GB in 42 minutes. Check out its burn speed benchmark performance at the link above."

Comments

Learn to read!

[Anonymous Coward]

> The drive can do anything with CDs

should read:
The drive can't do anything with CDs

Fatal Error

[linvir]

Copyrighted media detected. Burn aborted.

Re:Fatal Error

[Telvin_3d]

Copyrighted media detected. Burn aborted. Your TCM chip has notified the autorities. The *AA lawyers should be ringing your doorbell in 5..4..3..2..1..**DING-DONG**

Wow

[quicks0rt]

42 minutes... Oy!

Why burn just 1?

[posterlogo]

...when you can set up your own distribution center: Engadget has a peek at Primera's mass Blu-ray duplication system

Primera has started shipping the world's first Blu-ray disc duplication system, the Bravo XR-Blu Disc Publisher, able to burn up to 50 discs in one session. The core of the unit is actually Pioneer's recently announced BDR-101A Blu-ray burner, but it's backed up by some sweet built-in robotics to keep the discs moving (we hope -- we've heard this things are a little buggy) and full-color direct-to-disc inkjet printing to ensure a professional-looking job. This being the first unit of its kind, however, it should come as no surprise that it only uses single-layer discs, able to store a measly 25 GB, but Primera says an upgrade will be available "shortly" to allow for dual-layer burning. And if you thought regular, single-disc Blu-ray burners were expensive, you better look away now, 'cause this beast will set you back a whopping $5295.

Sounds like we'll be seeing surprisingly cheap Blu-ray movies on Ebay any day now.

Re:Why burn just 1?

[AJWM]

Yeah they have. DVD+R DL used to be about $10/disc ($30 for a 3-pack). Now they're in the $2-$3/disc range. Still a long way from the price of blank single layer DVD+/-R, let alone CD-R, but the price is coming down.

Hey, I remember when blank CR-Rs were in the $10-20/disc range. RAM cost $50-$100/megabyte (not gigabyte). And DVD burners were still on the horizon at $15,000 each. And we likedit. (Hell no we didn't!)

Correction on CD disk capability

[chamilto0516]

From the article: "Interestingly, the BDR-101A neither burns nor reads CD media of any type. So if you still need CD burning or reading capability, you'll need an additional drive."

Anyway, the Blu-Ray disks are $19-29 USD. I will need to wait until I can buy a spindle of 100 Blu-Ray disks for 9.99 before I go out and buy one of these things.

Can't read CD media?

[Danga]

Why did they leave that ability out? I know I don't want to have a separate drive to read CD's, but with this drive that is the only option. I can see phasing out CD's once this new generation of media is firmly in place but it is way too early to start phasing out CD's. Floppy disks somewhat recently just got phased out for Christ's sake. I don't see CD's going anywhere for at least 3 more years.

Re:Can't read CD media?

[ivan256]

Incidentally, you can get a CD burner for less than a Blu-Ray blank for this thing.

Re:Can't read CD media?

[Danga]

I don't care about it having the ability to write CD's, I do care about it having the ability to READ them though. This was clearly rushed to the market and a waste of money IMHO.

Re:Can't read CD media?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I would expect competing drives to offer it soon enough. I don't think it is to try to phase out CDs.

I think CD compatibility would require a tri-laser head, which exist but might not be production ready yet. CD/DVD burners are generally, one for each medium because each has its own optimal frequency. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are a third, significantly separated frequency from the other two.

Frankly, I don't see the problem. At that price, it is probably marketed as an authoring test drive or a very rich nerd toy. Many nerds and many media authors tend to have multiple optical drives anyway.

The Summary

[Doomedsnowball]

In the end, the BDR-101A is really a device for a select audience. For what it's worth, the drive is actually cheaper than the first-generation DVD recorders, which weighed in at over $2,000 when they first launched. Over the next months and years, we'll see the price of Blu-ray drives start to come down, as players, media, and the technology for more easily creating discs becomes more prevalent. It's also not well-suited for watching Blu-ray movies, since no off-the-shelf software exists. It's a good tool for people who are authoring Blu-ray, and are willing to put up with the single-layer limitation. For anyone else, it's really an expensive toy.

This just about sums up the entire article: Wow, neat. Don't buy one yet.

From the last flamefest...

[Frightening]

We have already established that Blu-Ray READERS are to be boycotted for the general public good. Why post an article about a BURNER when nobody is going to use the READERS? I mean, everybody reads and believes slashdot, right? Right?

Re:From the last flamefest...

[bsartist]

We have already established that Blu-Ray READERS are to be boycotted for the general public good.

I believe that has more to do with DRM-infested commercial releases than with the readers themselves.

Why post an article about a BURNER

Backups, distribution of free software, etc. There are plenty of uses for a new recordable optical media type that don't involve buying commercial DRM-infested discs.

Oh hell, who am I kidding? The real reason is right here.

Re:From the last flamefest...

[DarkEdgeX]

Actually, Blu-ray Disc is the format everyone should be hoping wins if you have any interest in data backup to optical media. HD DVD is a joke compared to BD (15/30 GB for HD DVD vs. 25/50 GB for BD). And don't get me started on the kind of extras we'll see on BD that we'll never see on HD DVD simply due to the capacity issue (or that TV shows on BD will fit more episodes per disc than HD DVD can, or that longish movies like The Lord of the Ring: The Return of the King Extended Edition will probably work fine on a single 50 GB BD disc, but will likely have problems with an HD DVD disc).

Blah. Sony may be screwing up this format launch so far, but I really hope they pick up the ball on this. Since it'll be at least another 5-10 years before another optical format emerges, I'd hate to see HD DVD be the one we're stuck with for that duration...

Why bother?

[onyxruby]

Honestly, why bother?

Blu ray would have been relevant 4 years ago if it had been introduced then, but it wasn't. Instead it's been introduced in todays age when you can buy a 250 GB hard disk for less than $70 with ease. The disks for this will be like any other disk in that their effective lifecycle will just be a few years. Like any other burnable disk they will suffer from burn problems and very low reliability.

It doesn't price justify to buy this kind of media (nevermind the whole DRM bit). Your better off spending your money on hard drives, they hold significantly more data, are an order of magnitude cheaper and several orders of magnitude more durable. In all sincerity, why would you ever want to buy something like this?

Re:Why bother?

[donglekey]

Because in 2 years the dual layer disks will cost 50 cents a piece which will mean you can backup a terabyte for $10 and give it to a friend.

Re:Why bother?

[evilviper]

The only thing we've really learned is that it's stupid to maintain your own personal video library,

Not at all. VHS tapes aren't compatible with DVD players, however, Blu-ray and HD-DVD players are fully compatible with the DVD collection you already own.

In addition, these high-def formats are fundamentally different:

They are being introduced at the very start of a new TV technology (unlike DVDs, which were released at the END of NTSC TVs).

They provide the full resolution these new TVs can display (unlike VHS)

It's perfectly reasonable to assume HDTV will be the standard for the next 50+ years. Only 3D TV could require something new, and that's nowhere near the horizon.

Now that our home media has switched to digital (computer) standards, it's perfectly reasonable to assume backwards compatibility for many, many generations of formats to come.

There's absolutely no reason to re-buy your DVD library, thanks to backwards compatibility.

These technologies are just being introduced. Maybe they won't catch-on for a few years.

You're acting like you have to throw away all your DVDs RIGHT NOW.

It remains to be seen

[Mr. Flibble]

It remains to be seen if the Beta-Ra*COUGH* blu-ray has any merit.

Please forgive me. I seem to have caught a cold. It has persisted since, oh, about 1983 or so...

Piffle

[onyxruby]

Dual layer DVD's have been out for a couple years now and the media /still/ costs about $2 a disc (best price on froogle). And to get that price you have to buy them by the 50 pack. By the time these disks come down to the price point you offered I'll be able to get a 1 TB drive for the price I offered, and the effeciency curve will continue to favor the drive. So why bother to invest in this technology.

Incredible!

[eieken]

Lets look at all the FEATURES, shall we?

• $1000 price tag
• Can't do anything with regular CDs
• $19-$25 for one disc? Can you say Zip disk?
• Can't burn dual layer discs, although dual layer blu-ray discs are available, completely ASININE!
• "The drive includes Roxio Digital Media 7 for creating discs, but does not ship with software to watch Blu-ray movies." WTF?

Sounds like a winner to me!

Re:Incredible!

[3vi1]

You act like the prices are really outragous, but this is what we call the "early adopter" cost. I had one of the first CD recorders, years ago (when people were still shocked there even was such a thing):

      - $1995 price tag
      - Could only record 650MB CD's, and at 2x speed
      - Blank CD's started at $20 to $25 each.
      - Could not handle rewritables, as there were none.
      - No buffer underrun protection (i.e., $20+ coasters)
      - The Pinnacle Micro drive I had came with super-beta software,
                so you were guaranteed to get one of those pricey
                coasters for every dozen disks.

The Blue Ray drive doesn't sound bad at all, in comparison. Expect media price to plummet as soon as there's competition, and expect the drives prices to drop 400% within 3 years.

Concurrency

[murderlegendre]

Is it just me, or were there a LOT more DVD players and DVD media in enduser hands, before the announcement of DVD burners?

It's almost like they (yes, the perjorative and mysterious 'they') want to have it both ways.. sell the stamped media, the blank media, and the hardware all at once - yet you *know*, from recent demonstrations, that they are geared up to protect any potential infringement of copyrights.

Or is this just how things work, these days?

Definitely

[blueZ3]

That's why I have my Mac backed up on 3,248 floppies. If anything goes wrong with one, I'll only lose 1.44MB

"CD disk" Capability?

[Anonymous Coward]

CD Disk = Compact Disc Disk

This Public Service Announcement has been brought to you by the Redundancy Department of Reduncancy.

DVD(HD) on DVD5,DVD9,DVD20,DVD45 no HD-DRM

[GodWasAnAlien]

Note, "HD" is possible on DVD5 or above.

Here are the steps to follow:
1. Upscale your DVD collection, writing using standard DVD's, in the DVD format, except enhanced for resolution, and perhaps formats (Perhaps Theora, DivX, MP4, in addition to MPEG2).
Call this DVD-HD.
2. Find a player that plays these DVD-HD discs. Buy this player.
3. When/If you find a commercial disc encoded with "DVD-HD", buy it as well.
4. Remember, don't buy the other HD-DRM discs (Unless it has be worked-around)
5. You can buy a DVD20 or DVD45 writer for data backups.
6. If a "DVD-HD" player is sold that plays "DVD20-HD" or DVD45-HD", buy this player.
7. Or just use VLC on a PC.
8. When/If you find a commercial DVD20 or DVD45 disc encoded with "DVD-HD", buy it as well.

0. If you bought into HD-DRM-DVD, then you expect the next step to be expiring media, then rentals only . Have fun.

Create/burn PAR2 files with your backups

[MojoStan]

i'm too paranoid to use stuff like this for backups.. sure 25 gigs is nice but whats the use if i just burn everything in 35 copies on the disc incase one part becomes unreadable?

as media starts to hold more, i just start creating more copies of the same backup on the disc. bluray/hdvd scares me because if it gets scratched you lose so much more than if a cd gets scratched

One of the most useful comments (for me) I've ever read on Slashdot was one suggesting PAR2 files for DVD backups.

For those that don't know, PAR2 files are parity files that can efficiently reconstruct missing or damaged blocks in your archive. If you have more PAR2 recovery blocks than damaged blocks, then you can completely reconstruct all of the damaged files in your archive. The best newbie explanation I've seen is the "PAR & PAR2 files" section from Slyck's Guide To The Newsgroups.

If I'm backing up to a data DVD-R (capacity 4,706,074,624 bytes), I'll leave around 4GB of space for the actual data and fill the rest (to the brim) with the PAR2 files that I created for that data. I name the PAR2 files starting with the letter 'z' so that they get burned on the outer edge of the DVD. When creating the PAR2 files, I choose a block size that is a multiple of 2048 bytes because that is the block size of a DVD sector.

Some easy-to-use tools to create PAR2 files:

• Windows: QuickPar (freeware)
• OS X: MacPar deLuxe (shareware, $15)
• Linux/OS Independent (GTK): GPar2

Some DVD data recovery software (to get every readable block off a damaged disc):

• Windows: IsoBuster (recovery functions are free)
• Linux/OS X (command line): dd_rescue

Thanks, WuphonsReach.

Re:Create/burn PAR2 files with your backups

[andreyw]

Files aren't burned in alphabetical order. They are burned in the order they were put into the ISO9660 or UDF filesystem, which is really filesystem generation utility-specific...

Interesting idea with the PAR2 files though.

Re:With $1000 as its pricetag..

[tomstdenis]

Or use SATA... when are CD/DVDs gonna start using it [mainstream]?

Tom

Why Blue Ray should win over HD-DVD

[alaloom]

From the first releases of HD-DVD movies, even encoded with the more efficient MPEG4.

The Last Samurai: 28GB,
Mel Brooks's Blazing Saddles: 26GB,
The Phantom of the Opera: 25GB,
Jarhead: 25GB.
The Bourne Identity: 23GB
Serenity: 20GB,
The Fugitive: 18GB,
Doom 17GB.

None of these movies could fit in a single layer HD-DVD, and some came very close to filling up the double sided one. Current capacity (double layer), Blue Ray: 50GB, HD-DVD: 30GB. but that's just the beginning. The highest achieved for the 2 formats: Blue Ray: 100GB, HD-DVD: 45GB. The theoretical max: Blue Ray 200GB, HD-DVD: 60GB. I'm really surprised that M$ and Inter support HD-DVD, obviously the Blue Ray has a lot more to offer capacity wise.