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DefectiveByDesign Supporters to Call on RIAA Execs

johnsu01 writes "DefectiveByDesign.org is organizing a call-in campaign for today. People around the country will be calling high-ranking RIAA officials to deliver the message that DRM is an unacceptable restriction on the freedom of consumers and citizens. DefectiveByDesign will provide the numbers to call when you sign up. This action should attract the people who thought that Apple was not a good target because it is the RIAA that requires DRM and those who think that wearing HazMat suits is obnoxious. Everyone can vote with their dollars, but that doesn't tell the RIAA why they aren't getting the dollars. With a few thousand people signed up already, they will undoubtedly know after today."

43 of 444 comments (clear)

  1. Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers .. by Entropy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    DefectiveByDesign will provide the numbers to call when you sign up.

    Why should I have to sign up? Just post the damn numbers and then request I sign up, and explain why it's important. I mean, I know that requiring registration is by no means the equal of DRM, but on some philosophical levels it does present it's ironies ..

    --
    The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
  2. Good luck with that by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It sounds more like a bunch of people are going to be calling up and harassing people. If you don't like their policies, DON'T BUY THEIR MUSIC! It's that simple. You don't need to explain why you're not buying it since you're not doing business with them anymore. Go buy from Indie labels. You're acting like a kid who says he's not going to talk to you anymore and then spends the next 2 hours trying to get you to ask him why he's not talking to you anymore. You know what? They don't care!

    1. Re:Good luck with that by kjart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you don't like their policies, DON'T BUY THEIR MUSIC!

      I couldn't agree more. Nobody is being forced to buy their stuff. Even if the big labels were the only outlet of music (and they're most certainly not) you _still_ wouldn't have to buy anything from them. You don't see me protesting McDonalds because the Big Mac is a piece of crap - I take my business elsewhere.

    2. Re:Good luck with that by famebait · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem with that is that the resulting sales drop will
      be blamed on piracy, and used as lobbying ammo for keeping and
      extending draconian DRM/copyright laws.

      --
      sudo ergo sum
    3. Re:Good luck with that by CowboyBob500 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Voting with your feet is a useful tool of protest, but why not attack them on two fronts? It should be any individuals right in a free country to protest peacefully. That includes phoning up perpetrators of stupid laws and harrassing them (work hours only, at their office - not at their homes). Make their lives uncomfortable both in their work lives AND in their pockets.

      Bob

    4. Re:Good luck with that by burnetd · · Score: 5, Insightful
      If you do not explain why you're not buying their CD's then the following will happen...
      • They won't know you are not buying them due to DRM.
      • They will just put any reduction in sales down to 'piracy' and use more DRM.
    5. Re:Good luck with that by repvik · · Score: 4, Interesting
      It would help a bit to tell them why we're not buying the products. If they've lost a sale to me because of DRM, they don't automatically know, you see. If enough people tell them that "I won't buy your DRM'ed shit", they might even listen!


      I'm no longer buying CD's, for two reasons:
      1. I don't like having to check each CD I buy to see if they're DRM'ed
      2. CD's are old-fashioned anyway.

      I like buying music online, but I don't use stores that enforce DRM, simply because I want to be in control of my music collection. So, where does this leave me? I can buy from AllOfMP3, and hope that some money goes to the artist(s), or I can download for free using various filesharing apps. If I didn't have a credit card, I would have no option but to pirate.

      The record companies/riaa need to know that their distribution methods are getting too old, and that DRM doesn't work the way they want it to. What they need to do is to make their music easier to access/buy (And screw prices that makes an album online cost the same as a jewel-case in a store!). And they should be told so. By enough people to be heard!

    6. Re:Good luck with that by 91degrees · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The way in which something is deffective is irrelevant - if I don't like a product, I don't have to buy it.

      True. However, usually they'd like to know why you're not buying a product. If you dislike McDonalds because they only serve fatty food, then they might consider some healthier options. But that will only happen if they know about it.

    7. Re:Good luck with that by Asphalt · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Something tells me those with the money, but not the card, to purchase the music aren't sending checks to the artist after they pirate their music.

      Actually, you just roughly described the business model of a record label.

    8. Re:Good luck with that by StarvingSE · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Something tells me those with the money, but not the card, to purchase the music aren't sending checks to the artist after they pirate their music.

      Sounds like a good idea to me. Download an artist's music off of limewire or whatever for free, and send a check directly to the artists saying "hey, I downloaded 10 tracks, here's a check for $10.00. F*** the RIAA." That would get the RIAA's attention real quick, and show that people aren't against paying for stuff, they are against being treated like criminals.

      --
      I got nothin'
  3. DRM is the new Vietnam? by kjart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Call me cynical, but does anyone else find it sad that this is promoted as such a "cause" to fight for? Has consumerism come so far that we are now protesting the things we buy? This isn't really the context that I think of when I think of a 'freedom fighter' (their label, not mine).

    Though, I suppose, it's not like there are any wars or civil liberty issues to protest nowadays.....

    All that being said, DRM sucks.

    1. Re:DRM is the new Vietnam? by plasmacutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in this age of globalism and a world where international borders become less and less meaningful the elite can no longer subjugate people through conquering other lands and calling them "colonies".

      Despite this the elite long for those days long ago when serfs were forced to work without pay and without the right to property for the enrichment of their masters receiving only "security" in return. (that was the case.. after all the "lords" were there to protect them from raiding hordes after the fall of the roman empire)

      As such, they have now found a new way of stripping away our right to own and govern property using technology and the great constitutional end-run known as contract law.

      Make no mistake, this is a fight for freedom. It may not be as glorious, as roudy, or as conventional as you remember, but then again the american revolution was unlike any war since as well.. no grand columns of soldiers, but guerrilla attacks which the british considered "cowardly" and "childish". (see the original lyrics to yankee doodle for references)

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    2. Re:DRM is the new Vietnam? by kjart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As such, they have now found a new way of stripping away our right to own and govern property using technology and the great constitutional end-run known as contract law.

      I'll say it again - DRM sucks. But I really dont see how it is stripping away your right to own and govern property. It may be restricting your ability to use the property they are trying to sell you - but guess what? You don't have to buy it. Nobody is forcing you to buy music from major record labels. Even if they were the only show in town (which they aren't) you still wouldn't have to buy a single CD from them.

      That's where your analogy colapses. Whereas the British had soldiers with guns that actually did force you to do something (i.e. pay taxes) the only one you have to blame for buying a Britney Spears (or whatever) CD with DRM is yourself.

    3. Re:DRM is the new Vietnam? by plasmacutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'll say it again - DRM sucks. But I really dont see how it is stripping away your right to own and govern property.

      Part of the term "property" involves the owner's right to fully govern it, not some corporation or elitist slobs.

      It may be restricting your ability to use the property they are trying to sell you - but guess what? You don't have to buy it. Nobody is forcing you to buy music from major record label

      And nobody is forcing you to breathe air.

      I think its about time this straw man was debunked. Culture is as essential to humanity as air, food, shelter and water, and like it or not the RIAA and their related organizations have a near monopoly control over the most popular and dominant expressions of our culture. If we do not own our culture and have a right to participate in it I say our "sentience" is highly overrated, and we need to go back to the trees where we belong.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    4. Re:DRM is the new Vietnam? by damburger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Given that the underlying issue is freedom of speech vs. property rights, this issue is FAR from trivial.

      We live in a society that worships at the alter of the free market. The invisible hand can do no wrong and anyone who claims otherwise is a dirty commie. The abundant nature of data on an open network is heresy to this new religion though - the market requires scarcity to function. A scarcity must be introduced so that the glorious march of capitalism can continue.

      On the other hand, any IP law is a law that can be used to restrict what information is held on and communicated between computers is a restriction on free speech. Call me crazy, but governments shouldn't be adding more of those.

      I'm not sure if harassing certain people will have any effect on this struggle, but it might be worth a shot.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    5. Re:DRM is the new Vietnam? by plasmacutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why in that order? Because the second will kill you whereas the first will - what? Make you a little bored? I wouldn't even go that far. There is far more to culture then what the major music and movie companies offer - and that's not going to change anytime soon.

      Why not? Because people _are_ free to participate in culture. If what exists sucks (or at least does in your opinion) you can go out and create your own works or, if your talents don't lay in that area, can support someone who does make something to your liking. Modern technology has even made this (arguably) easier to do nowadays then ever before.


      look.. participation does not mean simply "consumption".. it means remixing, sharing, communication, etc. DRM prevents that, so no, we _are not_ free to participate in culture.. thanks to DRM we are only free to _consume_ what they dispense.

      Further, youre right there is far more to culture than what the music and movie industries offer, just like there is far more to the world than what major industrialized nations have to offer, that doesnt change the fact that what these music and movie industries have to offer makes up the _majority_ of our culture and we deserve the right to participate in it rather than simply _consume_ it.

      Finally, we are not human if we do not participate in culture.. we are no better than the animals we claim differ from us..

      why not extend that argument from culture to food.. we can go much longer without food than we can air and water.. why not cut out food.

      would you tolerate it if the government mandated we eat nothing but kibble for food? dog food is more nutritious than our food but would you tolerate it?

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  4. Mr. Asshole isn't in right now... by davmoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And precisely how do these people expect to get past the front switchboard or the secretary to actually talk to Mr. Powerfull RIAA Person?

    --
    I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
  5. Drunk Dialing the RIAA by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny
    I think I'll sign up for this and store a few of these numbers on my phone. I hope they remain active, that way I'll always be able to call the RIAA about the DRM on my sister's iPod or even just to remind them that their invited to accompany me and a certain politician on a "hunting trip."

    Something that I do when I'm drinking at 2 or 3 am is drunk dial people. This is pretty much a curse as I proceed to leave indiscernible/garbled phone messages for my victims.

    Thanks to this website, I'll now be able to leave those messages on RIAA answering machines. If I get an RIAA representative on the phone, it will be perfect because:
    • I've never lost an argument when drunk. At least, nobody's ever not conceded to me.
    • I'm twice as opinionated and polarized when I'm drunk compared to when I'm sober.
    • I constantly like to give people a "piece of my mind" and/or "settle their hash" when wrecked.
    • I love to sing when I'm drunk. This is bad because it usually comes out in an a-melodic fashion.
    • Phone conversations with me can last an hour or more. Sometimes taking as much as 10 minutes to figure out who I am, what I'm doing, where I am & (the hardest one) why I'm calling you.
    So, as you can see, there are so many good reasons for me to put the RIAA on the top of my drunk dialing list. Not because I want to call them and tell them how much I'm going to miss after everyone graduates and moves away ... but instead to let them know my true inner feelings about DRM, who they are and what they do.
    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Drunk Dialing the RIAA by phaxkolumbo · · Score: 5, Funny

      I love to sing when I'm drunk.

      Careful there, if you do that RIAA might actually get back to you...

  6. Real-world DDOS by quokkapox · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I think it's inevitable that we'll see this technique used more and more frequently. Even a small group of people can use the internet to organize and even mediocre marketing/writing skills can be used to gather a large (overwhelming) group of people who will do something that annoys a company (calls to complain about something, buy a CD with DRM and immediately return it unopened, etc.)

    Imagine if every Wal*Mart in a given city had a swarm of "customers" walk in, fill up a cart with goods and then abandon it. You can bet it would make the local news if it were done right. Even the national news. Look how that guy who recorded his "cancel my account" AOL experience. He managed to get digg and slashdot to cover it, and then it spiralled out onto the cable news networks. That one story could have profound effects on the entire AOL customer service staff.

    --
    it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
  7. Old School by cloudkiller · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm up for the old-school phone-a-thon, but can't someone just track down the blue frog killers and send the RIAA a message that way? 1000 or so calls just means a $5.15 an hour receptionist has a really bad day.

    --
    [an error occurred while processing this sig]
  8. Better still by GroeFaZ · · Score: 4, Funny

    Return to them, via email, all .mp3s you ever obtained without paying.

    I know, old hat, but still funny :)

    --
    The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
    1. Re:Better still by Eideewt · · Score: 4, Funny

      If only there were some way to make copies....

  9. DefectiveByDesign ??? by gedeco · · Score: 4, Funny

    Looks like a evaluation of the campaign itself.

  10. Here Are the Numbers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Chairman Ted Stevens (AK), (202) 224-3004
    John McCain (AZ), (202) 224-2235
    Conrad Burns (MT), Main: 202-224-2644
    Trent Lott (MS), (202) 224-6253
    Kay Bailey Hutchison (TX), (202) 224-5922
    Gordon H. Smith (OR), (202) 224 3753
    John Ensign (NV), (202) 224-6244
    George Allen (VA), (202) 224-4024
    John E. Sununu (NH), (202) 224-2841
    Jim DeMint (SC), (202) 224-6121
    David Vitter (LA),(202) 224-4623
    Co-Chairman Daniel K. Inouye (HI), (202) 224-3934
    John D. Rockefeller (WV), (202) 224-6472
    John F. Kerry (MA), (202) 224-2742
    Barbara Boxer (CA), (202) 224-3553
    Bill Nelson (FL), (202) 224-5274
    Maria Cantwell (WA), (202) 224-3441
    Frank R. Lautenberg (NJ), (202) 224-3224
    E. Benjamin Nelson (NE), (202) 224-6551
    Mark Pryor (AR), (202) 224-2353

    1. Re:Here Are the Numbers! by papskier · · Score: 5, Informative

      and here's the "official" list from defective by design...

      Brad Buckles RIAA USA (202) 857-9607
      Mitch Bainwol RIAA USA (202) 857-9651
      Cary Sherman RIAA USA (202) 857-9632
      Mitch Glazier (202) 857-9673 USA RIAA
      Neil Turkowitz RIAA USA (202) 857-9647
      Steve Redmond BPI UK +44 (0)20 7803 1324
      Peter Jamieson BPI UK +44 (0) 20 7803 1311
      Matt Phillips BPI UK 44 (0) 77 3951 4963
      Michael Haentjes IFPI Germany +49 (30) 59 00 38-0
      Peter Zombik IFPI Germany +49 (30) 59 00 38-0
      Jean never Foitzik IFPI Germany +49 (30) 59 00 38-23
      Herve Rony SNEP France +33 (1) 44 13 66 66
      Graham Henderson CRIA Canada 1 (416) 967-7272 ext. 102

      a good email address was sacrificed to spam to get this information... use it wisely.

      --
      Crowded elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
  11. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by Kaitiff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I can understand your point on 'some philosophical level', it shows a level of dedication to stand up and be counted. In this day and age, marches and protests are superseded by our ability to bitch and whine on message boards and blogs. Anonymity is something we need to protect on the 'net, but stepping into the limelight makes a much bolder statement. It takes a lot more courage and dedication to a cause to have your name be listed than using a pseudonym. Please take note of my hypocrisy; I do believe this will be posted as an anonymous coward because I can't recall my nick on here. :)

    --
    If I sound stupid, it's not me talking....
  12. Will this be effective? by William+Robinson · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Though, I would love to see RIAA disappear as much as the next person, I serously doubt what this canpaign would achieve. RIAA (and all almighty power they have) would not have existed in first place if there were no need of them.

    If they can be convinced not to make too much fuss about everything on this earth, maybe things will be OK.

    my 2 cents

  13. Voting with Dollars by professionalfurryele · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Everyone can vote with their dollars, but that doesn't tell the RIAA why they aren't getting the dollars."

    I do love this idea. Has any one else noticed that if we reduce ourselves to voting with our dollars, then ordinary people get about 37,000 votes a year if they are lucky, while Corporations and the super rich get millions or billions of votes?

    Boycotts may or may not work, but they should not be the primary means of collective bargaining for the people. The collective bargaining agency supposed to stand up for the rights of the people is called the government. Or at least, that was the impression I got.

  14. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by Eideewt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    My guess would be that they want to balance the number of calls to each phone number, and they want to know how many people participated. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

  15. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by McWilde · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I can't recall my nick on here"

    It's "Kaitiff".

    --
    Maybe
  16. "Plays for sure" = "Plays for now" by yeremein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I blogged about why I won't purchase any "Plays for sure" music. The DRM is practically guaranteed to make your music collection disappear.

    Any system that restricts copying the music you paid for will eventually lock out the paying customer. I refuse to spend real money on a disappearing product.

  17. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Why should I have to sign up? Just post the damn numbers and then request I sign up,


    simple.

    Trolls. They are trying to limit the number of trolls. for every one moron spewing profanity and "1 0wn J00!" at them that destroys the credibility of 20 honest and professional calls.

    So limiting the idiots and morons that screw things up helps make the ration of intilligent to idiot much higher.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  18. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by Lurker187 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Why should I have to sign up? Just post the damn numbers and then request I sign up, and explain why it's important. I mean, I know that requiring registration is by no means the equal of DRM, but on some philosophical levels it does present it's ironies ..


    My guess is they want people to register for the same reason that internet petitions aren't worth crap -- anonymity is ultimately a form of obfuscation, and when you're trying to tell someone something they don't want to hear, they'll jump on any excuse to devalue the legitimacy of your position.

    But yes, it's a perfectly valid point, there is certainly some irony there.
    --
    [command INSERTWITTYQUIP failed: insufficient wit]
  19. Sadly, it won't help by dbmasters · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The RIAA is just like labor unions, they were a decent idea, but they have gotten too big and too powerful and have grown themselves into a counterproductive entity that is hurting those that they profess to help and profit from them a great deal, which is also the exact reason they will never go away.

    --
    dB Masters
  20. IMHO. by DoctorDyna · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The RIAA is a business. Their customers are record label execs. As has happened in the past, business are most hurt by robbing them of customers. People calling the RIAA isn't going to discourage anybody from conducting business, especially not record label execs.

    If you want to hurt them, we need to convince record labels that they don't need to employ what is basically a "task force posse" to protect their interests. Striking at the heart of the beast would be most productive. What we need to do as good, strong minded, mostly intelligent people is start some new record labels that are specifically designed with low profit margins and realistic salaries, and start campaigning to get major artists moved over to our labels that pass on more profit to them. We need to rob the RIAA supporting labels in the good old fasioned american way, which is build a better alternative.

    --
    Windows has more viruses because linux has more virus coders.
  21. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by IAmTheDave · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So limiting the idiots and morons that screw things up helps make the ration of intilligent to idiot much higher.

    BugMeNot has basically destroyed that mold. I wonder if the "sign-up" thing is like, a DefectiveByDesign is actually an RIAA shill that's trying to collect the names of people who call in who are likely pirates...

    Sorry, what with the NSA and State Secrets and such, these days, anything that requires me to give personal information has me second-guessing motives (as implausable as this one probably is.)

    --
    Excuse my speling.
    Making The Bar Project
  22. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by Asphalt · · Score: 4, Interesting
    My guess is they want people to register for the same reason that internet petitions aren't worth crap -- anonymity is ultimately a form of obfuscation, and when you're trying to tell someone something they don't want to hear, they'll jump on any excuse to devalue the legitimacy of your position.

    I just don't understand whatsoever how "registration" is supposed to make anything more credible by making people use "real" information.

    Name: Joe Blow
    Email Address: joeblow123456@yahoo.com
    Postal Code: 12345

    It's a ilttle silly to assume or even expect people to give real information on "registration" forms these days.

    BTW, my real name isn't Asphalt.

  23. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh come on. Your name, address and telephone number are not private information. In fact, rumor has it that there is a book somewhere that has the name, address and number of every person in the entire city. Imagine if someone with nefarious purposes were to get ahold of that -- we would all be in trouble!

  24. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by ProfFalcon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah, but the phone book doesn't contain a correlation with "likely to be a pirate".

    According to the RIAA numbers on the losses due to pirating, I would have to disagree with your assumption. Based on their numbers, if you're listed in the phone book, you're likely a pirate.
    --
    Simply stating [Citation Needed] does not automatically make you insightful or brilliant.
  25. Re:Ugh. Why can't they just post the damn numbers by jamiesan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's an inclusion by exclusion. The RIAA is in cahoots with the NSA and the FBI and any other TLA I can think of. According to this government, since you are not in the phone book, you must have something to hide (besides your phone number). Pirate... Terrorist... What is it?!?

  26. Re: What if the Big Mac had DRM by ElysianAudio · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, I just got the strangest mental image. Let's work on that analogy a little. (Slightly OT)

    If McDonalds fell under the DMCA, you can choose to buy a Big Mac or not (see exceptions below). Regardless, you still have the option of finding food elsewhere. However, if you purchase the Big Mac, you will be bound by a very specific set of rules found on the inside of the wrapper: You are the only person authorized to consume the Big Mac, you may not sell it or offer it to others. You may not examine, disassemble or modify the Big Mac (e.g. you cannot take the pickles off, or add more mustard, cut the burger in half). You may not tell others how to perform these actions, or possess or traffic in tools to assist with these actions (e.g. a knife). You must consume the Big Mac from the original wrapper; it may not be placed on a plate, in a lunchbox, or in a fridge. The Big Mac must be purchased and consumed within the US, and the right to consume may be revoked at any time without warning. Violation of any of these conditions will make you subject to civil fines (upwards of $150,000US per instance) and possibly criminal penalties.

  27. Here are the phone numbers for RIAA execs by KWTm · · Score: 4, Informative

    I just phoned one of the execs (no answer after 12 rings) and will keep trying. I will post the phone numbers here, but I do encourage people to stand up and be counted by still signing up at the DefectiveByDesign.org website.

    We need to take actions like this as a community, because it's our best (and possibly only) tool. We don't have lobbyists cozying up to government officials, and we don't have the money to pay to Learjet the politicians to a nice dinner on a private island. But we do have strength in numbers, and if only we have the backbone to stand up and make our views known, we can make a difference. Because I'm not sure the MAFIAA has backbone; their backs are stiff just because they're so stuffed with money.

    By the way, the DefectiveByDesign.org web site only shows ten call reports from people having made phone calls. When I tried to submit my report, I got an error message. So maybe the site isn't working properly. I hope in the end we do get a tally of how many people responded.

    Brad Buckles RIAA USA (202) 857-9607
    Mitch Bainwol RIAA USA (202) 857-9651
    Cary Sherman RIAA USA (202) 857-9632
    Mitch Glazier USA RIAA (202) 857-9673
    Neil Turkowitz RIAA USA (202) 857-9647
    Steve Redmond BPI UK +44 (0)20 7803 1324
    Peter Jamieson BPI UK +44 (0) 20 7803 1311
    Matt Phillips BPI UK 44 (0) 77 3951 4963
    Michael Haentjes IFPI Germany +49 (30) 59 00 38-0
    Peter Zombik IFPI Germany +49 (30) 59 00 38-0
    Jean never Foitzik IFPI Germany +49 (30) 59 00 38-23
    Herve Rony SNEP France +33 (1) 44 13 66 66
    Graham Henderson CRIA Canada 1 (416) 967-7272 ext. 102

    --
    404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
    [GPG key in journal]