Sony 'Anti-Used Game' Patent Explored

Sometime in 2000, Sony patented a process that would 'verify a disc as legitimate, register the disc to that particular game console, then wipe out verification data so the disc would be rendered unreadable in other PlayStations'. Despite unrest in the gaming community over this technology, the company has repeatedly stated they have no plans to use it in the PS3. The LA Times explores this persistent debate, examining why Sony developed the tech and why gamers are nervous. From the article: "Whatever Sony's plans, the tempest [over the patent] illustrates the changing nature of ownership as millions of people accumulate vast collections of digital entertainment. Few people realize that when they buy software or music or movies, they are actually buying a license to use, watch or listen. That's why it violates copyright laws for people to sell copies of their music collection." Thanks to 1up.com for the link.

Comments

Blockbusted

[TheFlamingoKing]

Maybe because this completely kills the rental business? I for one haven't bought a game in a long time, but I have rented a few...

Re:Blockbusted

[mrxak]

It also kills people bringing over games to a friends house to play it there. With this, you'd have to bring your own console over as well.

Re:Blockbusted

[Who235]

Amen to that.

I almost always rent a console game before I buy it because I don't have the kind of money it takes to buy a $70 POS that I'll hate after a week.

Games are way too expensive to allow those kind of restrictions on them.

I think a move like that will ensure that only big name titles get purchased and it will choke the life out of smaller games that nobody will want to pay for without the security of being able to sell them if they suck.

Re:Blockbusted

[qbzzt]

It won't kill the rental business. It will let game publishers sell two types of copies:

1. Single console copies for the home market.
2. Multiple console copies for the rental market.

#2 will cost more than #1, but not so much that Blockbuster will want to leave the video game rental business.

Re:Blockbusted

[Cadallin]

Alternatively, they might sell none at all, as all the customers go and buy hardware that doesn't implement such restrictions, and has a plentiful supply of less expensive titles. I can see why Publishers might THINK they want this, but unless it is implemented universally (and it can't be really, modded consoles would render this moot for everything except online games, and if you're going to mod your console, you might as well pirate the games) but in reality other companies would offer a more custumer friendly approach and reap the benefits in the market.

Of course, I hate Sony anyway, so I'm all in favor of them implementing this kind of scheme. Nintendo Wii FTW.

Re:Blockbusted

[Odin_Tiger]

they'd sell many more copies

Doubt it, unless this was an industry-wide thing. More likely, launch sales would be crap as people waited for reviews, and companies not using the tech would see a significant bump in market share as well.

Re:Blockbusted

[Rob T Firefly]

1. Single console copies for the home market.
2. Multiple console copies for the rental market.

Wait until a formerly new title's hype has blown over and Lackluster Video wants to get rid of their 20 extra copies. Hello again, used market. Even better, hello used market for games with better functionality than new retail copies. Same goes for when someone eventually finds a way to pirate rented games. Hello, 0-day no-strings-attached ISO files that beat legit shelf copies in every way but the DVD sleeve.

Re:Blockbusted

[IAmTheDave]

You think Sony won't force Lackluster to sign a contract preventing them from selling on their used stock?

Right of First Sale doesn't just apply to you and me.

That's why it violates copyright laws for people to sell copies of their music collection."

But it doesn't violate anything for people to sell THEIR copy of their music collection. Denying that right through this system denies me the Right of First Sale, and thus denies me my fair-use rights.

Re:Blockbusted

[Korin43]

Your "Nintendo Wii FTW" comment made me realize that this is actually a good thing. Not because other consoles won't do this, but because other consoles CAN'T do this. Sony patented it, so only Sony can do this (for 10 years-ish, right?).

Re:Blockbusted

[sorak]

Alternatively, they might sell none at all, as all the customers go and buy hardware that doesn't implement such restrictions, and has a plentiful supply of less expensive titles. I can see why Publishers might THINK they want this, but unless it is implemented universally (and it can't be really, modded consoles would render this moot for everything except online games, and if you're going to mod your console, you might as well pirate the games) but in reality other companies would offer a more custumer friendly approach and reap the benefits in the market.

Of course, I hate Sony anyway, so I'm all in favor of them implementing this kind of scheme. Nintendo Wii FTW.

No disrespect intended, but Lassaiz-faire doesn't work. At least it doesn't work in the modern world. I'm sure that, at one time, people may have gone to a dishonest carpenter, felt cheated, told their friends, and eventually killed the carpenter's business based on poor word-of-mouth.

In today's entertainment market, however, that is not an option. If Rockstar game refuses to make "Grand-Theft-Auto: Branson, Missouri" on any system other than PS3, then people will buy a PS3, and they will gladly buy two copies so they can play it on the new PS3 they buy when their first PS3 spontaneously explodes, six months after being purchased (Tell me you don't know somebody who has had a defective PS2). Also, there is a good chance that Sony will work out some deal with Rockstar games, to assure that the game doesn't get released on any other system.

As for modding, most people won't do it because 1). The process often requires you to break open the system and solder in a chip, running the risk of turning a $350+ game system into a paperweight, and 2). The DMCA makes it illegal for stores or people with any kind of real skill to solder a chip in. The end result is that, if you want to pay $60 for a chip, and if you know someone you trust with your system, then you can get it modded, but most people aren't that "into" gaming.

The only thing that can kill a system or hardware is a lack of high quality games, and DMCA cripplling is like spanish fly to the people who make those games.

Re:Blockbusted

[ScrewMaster]

But if you're really buying a license they should be willing to replace your destroyed content for a nominal "replacement fee" after all you still OWN the license.

How much do you want to bet that the "license" (and I use the term very loosely) specifically exempts them from any and all responsibility for replacement? License terms can be anything the vendor wants, and if the license says that you are only allowed to use the game on the console for which it was purchased, you're S.O.O.L, and it serves you right if you give them any money. Now, that wouldn't bother me quite as much if the game only cost five bucks ... for forty, fifty, sixty or more dollars a pop I would simply not be interested. I still think it's a terrible idea for all concerned.

The entertainment industry in general has been completely unwilling to replace anything for any reason, because they reason that if they replace it for free you won't buy a replacement. Logical enough, if you don't care about your customer base hating your guts and feeling ripped off. Should Sony (or anyone else) implement such restrictions I'll not be buying their products, that's for sure.

More generally, these corporations don't really seem to grasp that the value of the entertainment media and software we buy doesn't revolve entirely around jacking a shiny plastic disc into our own personal player (that one and only player that they seem to assume all of us have, would ever want, or should ever be allowed to own.) Squeezing out the ability to share our new acquisitions with friends and family may seem like a good idea from a financial perspective, and in the short term it probably is. A longer view would tell them that removing the social value from their offerings is going to cost them plenty.

This really isn't only about the money, or the law, as much as the media corporations would like you to believe. It is about control, control of distribution, and control of usage. They feel that they have the right to dictate where and how we can buy their products and, even more destructively, how we can use them. Interestingly, copyright law (at least, copyright law that existed up 'til the time when they paid to have it rewritten) did not provide for this. The law granted us a fair amount of control in terms of how we use the media we purchase. That's been largely eliminated for most people, in terms of both copyright law and technological measures. And so we are boldly going where no man has ever wanted to go.

Re:Blockbusted

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

exactly. If i cant bring Street Fighter 3 Third strike to a friends house to battle for hours... then whats the dam point of owning a video game system?

Games are for fun, they can bring friends together, create memories and good times...

If sony wants to take that away from games... so be it. I'm not dragging the console and the game over to a friends house just to play it.

When will sony create a technology that prevents me from borrowing my friends game controller... and forcing me to buy another just so he can play, rather than bring his over...

When will they force me to have a SONY ONLY television...

Fuck Sony. Sony has to be aware of the growing hatred for its entire brand.... they have to be... dont they?

Re:Blockbusted

[Matilda the Hun]

Probably. Doesn't mean they care. There'll always be a market for overpriced, locked-down game systems in the Myspace generation. They don't pay attention to the technical aspects, they just drool over the new game system. And their technologically-impaired parents, not knowing any better, will buy them the system because they want it. Teh edn.

Re:Blockbusted

[WhyCause]

When will they force me to have a SONY ONLY television...

I've long believed that this is Sony's Master Plan, only discussed in ultra-high level meetings with only C*Os present.

Think about how wide a reach Sony has, in terms of the types of products and services they offer. Today (in Japan, at least) you could buy a Sony movie, to play on your Sony Blu-Ray player, viewed on your Sony TV. Then you could buy the Sony CD of the soundtrack, listen to it on your Sony ATRAC player (after ripping it using your Sony computer), purchasing it all with your Sony credit card while sitting in the house that the Sony mortgage helped you buy. Think about how much money they would make if they could force you to do it. Think about how hard they try to get you to want to do it.

I'm not generally a conspiracy-theorist, but I can only imagine the pools of drool that form on the table at the aformentioned meetings when thought is given to this topic, and it makes my skin crawl.

Now, while I wait for Sony's black helicopters to take me away for some R&R at Sony Happy Fun Land, I'll leave you with this last disturbing thought...

What if you also worked for Sony?

Re:Blockbusted

[ConceptJunkie]

Yeah, class action suits... wonderful.

Some lawyers walk off with a few million and everyone who bought a PS3 gets a check for $6.71... or worse, a coupon for $10 off their next PS3 game purchase.

That'll put Sony in their place.

Exactly

[sRev]

Right. If I'm buying this license, I feel I should be entitled to my purchase for the duration of my life. I had my car broken into twice in 6 months, losing tons of CDs. I should be able, as a licensee, to receive a replacement copy of all those CDs.

Re:Exactly

[LiquidCoooled]

I had my car broken into twice in 6 months, losing tons of CDs. I should be able, as a licensee, to receive a replacement copy of all those CDs.

Try it.
Dig out your receipts, get the police crime reference and contact the publishers/RIAA.
It might cost you a small amount, but technically you should be able to do it.

In the world of software, usually you can get replacement media for a restocking and admin fee.
Even in the world of games, you can do this.

If they won't do it with all this clear evidence then you will come away with proof that you own the data and it was not a license in the first place.

Re:That's very incorrect

[plague3106]

I also would point out that the article is wrong when it says that it's illegal to sell used music. It is perfectly legal and quite commonplace. Caselaw and 17
USC 109 make it noninfringing to do so.

FWIW, she said selling COPIES of your music collection is illegal.

Call for "zonked" flag

[SuperKendall]

Slow news week for consoles? WHy not dredge up an older anti-Sony story - no need to worry about it being killed already by Sony previously saying they wouldn't make use of this technique. Bring it up again so that people will THINK they will!

It's all about the FUD and this is the minimum weekly dose.

Re:So...

[Necroman]

I couldn't agree more.

I'm on my third Playstation 2 right now, and if I had to rebuy the games every time I got a new console, I'd have some yelling and screeming to do.

First PS2 was stolen when I was moving out of the dorms in college.
Second PS2 (which I bought I week before, replacing the first PS2) broke. I was living in a hotel for a summer internship and the maid service that came through knocked it off the desk I had it on.

Re:there's a reason so few realize the rules

[SuperMog2002]

Treat the consumers with respect, and honesty. Ninety-nine percent of them will treat you with money! (The other one percent you really don't (or shouldn't) give a shit about anyway.)

This just might be my new favorite quote.

Re:Umm... did they change the OTHER law to that to

[Overzeetop]

A license can dictate that, but a sale cannot. You didn't buy a licence, for a license is a contract. You picked up a box, put it on the counter (real or virtual) and exchanged money for an object. You can do what you damned well please with it (provided it doesn't violate any other laws).

The digital realm has offered companies the opportunity to claim that you are only licensing the content, not purchasing a product. That's a legal battle yet to be fought, but given the dollars and players involved, I foresee first sale doctrine being nullified - at least for all digital works - within the next decade.

Doctrine of First Sale

[Sir Holo]

FTA: Few people realize that when they buy software or music or movies, they are actually buying a license to use, watch or listen. That's why it violates copyright laws for people to sell copies of their music collection."

No, no, no, how can the LA Times get something so basic so wrong?

Buyers of legal copies of copyrighted works are buying the physical copy, and have a right to sell that legal copy to someone else. A book, a CD, a DVD, an Excel CD. It is called The Doctrine of First Sale.

Sony would of course prefer that you didn't know this. But now you do.

There's an important difference...

[dclocke]

Few people realize that when they buy software or music or movies, they are actually buying a license to use, watch or listen. That's why it violates copyright laws for people to sell copies of their music collection.

Fine. But there's a big difference between selling copies of CDs (or games) in your collection, and selling the only original copy. I've heard rumors for a while that RIAA, MPAA, and other groups were planning on going after the used music/movie/game industry. Since when are you required to own a product for life once you buy it? As long as you transfer all copies/licenses to a new party, you should be able to give or sell any media you have purchased to someone else. And there is no reason why record companies, game publishers, or movie studios deserve another cut of that purchase price (I've also heard rumors that record companies are trying to squeeze some percentages out of used music sales). This is getting ridiculous.

Re:Just exactly like the corporations!

[Ingolfke]

My point exactly... consumers don't care about copyright owners. You'll notice that the rootkits came out after Napster, after P2P, after computing technology made it extremely easy to make exact digital copies in seconds. I'm not giving the big media giants a pass... they suck... but that doesn't justify violating their copyrights from a legal standpoint. Your just making justifications... admit that you violate copyrights, admit that you don't care that you violate the law, and move on... but don't be a puss and try to justify your actions w/ lame arguments.

This problem is already solved for me...

[merc]

I don't buy Sony products.

(Not flaimbait, I'm quite serious.)

Re:there's a reason so few realize the rules

[LunaticTippy]

Not that duh actually. Copyright laws are not new, and neither is laws against copying games, movies, and more. For many many years now (since VHS) there have been the FBI warning at the start of the movie warning against copying or playing in non-private use. For years people have heard about intellectual property laws.

It used to be legal to make unlimited copies for personal use. e.g. backups, high-use situations where the media could be damaged, copies for work & the car, etc. Since the DMCA we lost this right as long as there is encryption involved. Expect all future media to have encryption, so backups are no longer legal. Copies for the car or for work no longer legal. Giving children throwaway copies to chew on no longer legal. Copyright laws have changed. Many times. Including recently. We're losing rights like crazy, the public domain stopped growing, and I don't think it's fair.

What fucking license?

[trezor]

I repeat: What fucking license?

What papers did I recieve? What papers did I sign? Just where in this huge universe can I actually find this license you are talking about?

The answers are ofcourse: No, no, nowhere. So what license are you guys even talking about?

I buy it. The game is mine. Sure, the copyright ain't, but that's an entirely different matter. The game is mine, I own it. Stop perpetuating this goddamn bullshit. Stop being the entertainment industries bitches who are mindlessly brainwashing people who still know better.

I don't know how stuff works in the US, but here in Norway if I buy anything, it is mine. Anyone trying to pull any tricks on that, can be taken to court.

As it should be.

Repeat after me: There is no license.

This might be mod'ed down to GNAA levels. I don't care. I have plenty of karma.

Re:What fucking license?

[Mattintosh]

I believe I speak for everyone who isn't an industry shill when I say:

MOD PARENT WAY THE FUCK UP!

There is no license, not even a click-through EULA attached to this stuff. It's copyright-bound, yes, but not licensed. And I do know how stuff works in the US. I live in the US. This is the way it is. You are not licensing "content" from these companies. You are purchasing a shiny plastic disk with "content" on it, and you are given full property rights, but no copyrights. You can use, abuse, sell, cut, mark, bend, spindle, or mutilate that item however you want to, but you may not copy it with intent to distribute (sell or give, and no, "making sure someone doesn't steal the original" is not intent to distribute). You can copy it for your personal use and the use of those in your immediate social group (family, roommates, etc. - generally those living in your household at any given time).

The government would be wise to crack down on this sort of corporate abuse of general law. The Romans survived for 7 centuries, 5 of them in a fairly opressive but wealthy empire, and their main reason is that they knew not to fuck with "bread and circuses". As long as you keep people fed and entertained, they won't rise up and kick your ass. It's in the best interest of the American Empire to keep the circuses uninterrupted and relatively uncontrolled. Corporations will probably realize this fact about ten seconds too late, just as the government installs their organizational heads on a chopping block... or throws their suit-laced asses into an arena filled with lions. I'm betting on the lions - and I'll bet they're done before I finish this washtub of popcorn.

If I don't agree before the sale transpires

[hansreiser]

Then their changing it from a purchase to a license has no validity. I buy a box, if that box has a note in it stating after I have paid for it that I did not buy it, the note means nothing.

Of course, this assumes rule by law not by social position, and I leave it to the reader to decide whether our courts rule by law or by social position.....