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Microsoft to Allow Competitive Search
Aviran Mordo writes to tell us Reuters is reporting that Microsoft is announcing a voluntary policy to help guide the development of Windows in the future. The policy, which Microsoft senior vice president Brad Smith said was 'committed to creating a transparent system that allows open competition,' will start by allowing other search engines like Google to be set by default.
Not to be overly paranoid, but this is Microsoft we're discussing, and this is Slashdot, but what are the "terms" to allow manufacturers to set any search engine as default? Manufacturers in the past, before the DOJ decision were allowed to ship computers with any operating system they chose. It's just that Microsoft provided strong incentives for them not to.
While I like Microsoft's "allowance", considering past behavior, I'd rather they stipulate "with no strings attached", which wasn't stated explicitly. I know this post will bring me Flame/Troll mods, but fool me once...
Fairness UPDATE: From this Seattle Times article are the words that bring the clarity I sought (emphasis mine):
This is good news!
They're allowing OEM builders and end users to change some basic settings on their own computers? Oh my, how thoughtful of Microsoft! What's next, "allowing" system builders and users to install competitors' web browsers and office suites? "Allowing" system builders and users to change their wallpaper?
I'm sorry, I just don't see anything groundbreaking in this "news." I read it more as spin on the fact that if they don't allow such settings to be changed, they'll find themselves in the antitrust hot seat again.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Please go open source either... we already have the code...
If people actually read the NY Times article which talked about google bitching about msn search being default for IE7 they would have already read how manufactures could sell that space to the highest bidder.
It has stopped raining chairs.
Microsoft: Yeah, you can take this shortcut through our guildhall to the Orc Camp.
You: Cool
Microsoft: Now just sheath your sword and look straight ahead...
You: Okay (starts walking)
Without warning, Microsoft stabs you from behind!
Microsoft massacres you with incredible force.
Microsoft massacres you with incredible force.
You are bleeding to death...
Microsoft Announces Principles to Guide Future Development of Windows
/PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Recognizing the important role the Windows(R) operating system plays in the global information economy, Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) today announced a set of voluntary principles to help guide the future development of the Windows desktop platform worldwide, starting with Windows Vista(TM).
Twelve tenets to continue to apply after major parts of U.S. antitrust ruling expire.
July 19, 2006 1:45 PM ET
WASHINGTON, July 19, 2006
(Logo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20000822/MSFTL OGO )
In a speech hosted by the New America Foundation at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith said these principles will continue to apply after major parts of the U.S. antitrust ruling expire in November 2007.
"Our goal is to be principled and transparent as we develop new versions of Windows," Smith said. "These voluntary principles are intended to provide the industry and consumers with the benefits of ongoing innovation, while creating and preserving robust opportunities for competition. The principles incorporate and go beyond the provisions of the U.S. antitrust ruling."
The principles, which consist of 12 tenets, are divided into the following three general categories:
-- Choice for Computer Manufacturers and Customers. Microsoft is committed to designing Windows and licensing it on contractual terms so as to make it easy to install non-Microsoft(R) programs and to configure Windows-based PCs to use non-Microsoft programs instead of or in addition to Windows features.
-- Opportunity for Developers. Microsoft is committed to designing and licensing Windows (and all the parts of the Windows platform) on terms that create and preserve opportunities for applications developers and Web site creators to build innovative products on the Windows platform - including products that directly compete with Microsoft's own products.
-- Interoperability for Users. Microsoft is committed to meeting customer interoperability needs and will do so in ways that enable customers to control their data and exchange information securely and reliably across diverse computer systems and applications.
Smith told the audience that the principles do not supplant the continued application of antitrust law or the important role of government agencies and the courts in applying those laws.
"Microsoft is committed both to full compliance with antitrust law and to an ongoing and constructive dialogue with governments and others in the industry -- both in the United States and around the world," he said.
In addition to the 12 tenets Microsoft announced today, Smith acknowledged that other issues remain that still must be addressed by regulators, both now and in the future.
"We're not suggesting that the Windows Principles will address every question raised by regulators and competitors," Smith said. "However, the fact that there are unanswered questions shouldn't impede the adoption of a broad set of principles in those areas where there is clarity and consensus."
Smith said he believes it is critical for Microsoft and regulators to engage in open and constructive dialogue with a goal of resolving issues during product development and before the release of new products.
"We have a responsibility to bring information about new technologies to regulators, so we can pursue an open and constructive dialogue before the launch of these new products," he said. "Given the global nature of the information economy, we recognize the importance of providing this information on a global basis."
To ensure that the 12 tenets announced today reflect technological, business or legal developments going forward, Smith said Microsoft intends to review its Windows Principles at least once every three years. To ensure transparency, any changes wil
Quick! Someone give Microsoft a halo!
Saying is one thing and actually taking steps to ensure is another.
http://sohilsblog.blogspot.com
Who says this isn't good for business?
There is much more involved here than default search engines; that's pretty minor (I guess the press played up that minor issue because they play up anything having to do with Google).
Haven't the courts told Microsoft that they have to let mfgrs install any software as default? Browser? Music player? Security? Given that the EU is kicking them upside the head and given that they're in trouble the minute their buddy leaves the White House, I'm astounded that they haven't done a little more soul searching and behaviour modification.
Unfortunately, this article seems to have only hit the tip of the iceberg. The full list of commitments is at an official MS site
Now, I'm as realistic as the next guy, but these look pretty nice. The big ones are 5 and 9, which make it look like MS won't hit back against any manufacturer for bundling Linux on a desktop. It also allows for OEMs to remove WMP11 and IE7 from Vista if they'd rather bundle something else, or just bundle both, at no extra cost.
"Microsoft cares about Microsoft (and whoever pays them the most money).."
...as do most companies. Indeed, any company that does not is begging for a shareholder's lawsuit for malfeasence. Hey, I hate MS too, but this is normal.
This is done in fear of the European Union. While i disagree that it is enough its a small step in the right direction. Next would be to attack the contracts that punish OEM that sells anything other than Windows.
HTTP/1.1 400
It's a trap!
That's all well and good, and I imagine that OEMs will offer the default media player, search engine, browser, etc to the highest bidder.
However, to be fair, Microsoft should not be prohibited from being one of those bidders. For example, if Google, Firefox, and Real offer Dell millions to make Google, Firefox, and Real the default search, browser, and media player, respectively, Microsoft should be allowed to outbid Google, Firefox, and/or Real to make Live.com, IE, and WMP the default search, browser, and/or media player.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
"In a speech hosted by the New America Foundation at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith said these principles will continue to apply after major parts of the U.S. antitrust ruling expire in November 2007."
Oh, I get it. They want to show everyone they have actually reformed, before major parts of the DOJ ruling expire, probably to head off the (distant but still scary) prospect that the rulings might be revisited, extended, or expanded.
Soooo, they're going to polish up that halo *really* shiny.
If they actually do change, personally, I'll start giving them some slack, but I'll wait for actions, not promises.
Hmmm... come to think of it, it might matter whether these terms expire before or after Vista ships in 2007. I'm picturing a big switch somewhere in Vista marked "Break glass in case of DOJ ruling expiration".
... mail order guarantee .
.....
If you order from us now we will give you a 30 day money back, no questions asked, guarantee...
When teh fact of teh matter is that it is law that states they must give consumers 30 days to return
and in this case it is anti-trust suits that are requiring M$ to open up.
They are not doing this out of their own heart.
Nor it is a news worth story as it is presented,
As great as this sounds, I just know that a year after Vista comes out 9 out of 10 computers running Vista are going to have some form of spyware running their searches.
MS only has a few moves in its 20 year old play book.
Embrace, extend and extinguish is one of them.
Re read it as
"committed to creating a transparent system that allows us to extinguish the competition"
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I think it would be perfectly logical to see Microsoft gradually move away from the closed-source model. I would not be surprised if they announce a decision to make Windows open-source a few years from now, seeing as how the entire economics of the enterprise software industry is moving towards consulting and support as a primary source of revenue (e.g., Oracle, Red Hat, Sun and others). (After a complete change in leadership of course, with gates and others moving out of the picture.) The basic economic forces of supply and demand in a highly competitive enterprise software market dictate that they logically should not be able to rely on revenue from software licensing for very long into the future. Their monopoly days are over.
If they really want to show that they have learnt then they need to soften their position, as well as say things in a way that sounds at least half genuine.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Just to follow up on my own post (though it's bad form to replay to one's self lol), you can see in Microsoft's official statement:
Windows Principles: Twelve Tenets to Promote Competition that they cite the USDOJ and the provisions of the US antitrust settlement again and again; never do they cite the European Commision's Kafka-esque kangaroo court.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
this was in IE7 Beta2, i know, as i used it. its just a simple xml standard that allows anyone to create an xml file that descripts their search engine and its capibilitys and how to use them.. and IE7 adds it to its engine list. and it also allows you to set ANY as the default engine.
portfolio
The parent reminds us that press releases must always be evaluated in light of a track record, especially from such brilliant marketers as MS.
It's not just search. The slashdot summary is woeful in its shallowness.
Check out Microsoft's official statement:
Windows Principles: Twelve Tenets to Promote Competition
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
...But how does it taste?
...yeah, i'm american.
We don't know, they haven't served it yet. Well, they have, and it has always tasted like cod liver oil.
a couple comments...
1. the EU has shaken msft up, something the spineless, sold soul bush wouldn't do.
hurrrray for the EU!
boooooooo! cowardly us govt pimps whoring out america to the corporate johns that grease their palms...
BOOOOOOOOOOOO!
this is clearly spin to counter what the EU is doing... and it is also a cry to try and manipulate "regulators" in advance. you know, pay up front to try and avoid EU style issues.
2. IE has to be close to standards compliant, otherwise, msft is talking to the hand.
3. support odf. make the next office odf compliant out of the box.
4. why not actually do it THEN tell us about it? oh, that's right, know the speaker. msft loves talking but doesn't deliver so well.
we'll see, though. i'm sure of one thing. this *isn't* what they are touting it to be. there *is* a hidden agenda and they just aren't telling us about it. we'll have to watch them and see it materialize.
i don't see #3 and #4 happening in any way shape or form.
And with the basis of your utopia being that consultation is worth more than development, don't be surprised when consultants are making big buucks while programmers have to take jobs on the side. Also, don't be surprised when programs are intentionally made difficult to use, so as to drive up the necessity for consulting/customization and the fees incurred from that.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Open for whom?
p le+profits+soar/2100-1047_3-6096116.html?tag=nefd. top
The policy, which Microsoft senior vice president Brad Smith said was 'committed to creating a transparent system that allows open competition,'
I can't write my own device drivers anymore.
I can't download bug fixes for DX9 without WGA being enabled, yet I own over twelve Windows Licenses.
I can't benchmark programs and publish results.
I can't take any legally purchased WMA's and play them under Linux.
I can't have drive space for my own stuff because of Windows bloat.
I can't have my money back on eleven of those twelve Microsoft licenses.
I can't have days added back onto my life span for having to waste time reinstalling Windows for various reasons.
But hey Microsoft, I just want you to know that I am happy to be a part of Apples 12% Mac increase this quarter. http://news.com.com/Mac+sales+up+12+percent+as+Ap
Open my Ass.
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
Thanks Microsoft! You have saved me the 4 seconds that it takes for me to go to my.yahoo.com and set my home page...
You take it, I don't want it...
"8. Open Internet access. Microsoft will design and license Windows so that it does not block access to any lawful Web site or impose any fee for reaching any non-Microsoft Web site or using any non-Microsoft Web service."
What did they have planned before?
Agreed, and I think this is the truly significant news here. Microsoft has shown their total disdain for every legal measure taken against them. They do not fear the law, but they seem to be showing some fear for the market.
They have shown reaction before, they are always ready to offer rebates when someone talks about adopting open source, but at this time they seem to be "proactive", they are talking about opening up without a specific threat. Not quite like a French surrender yet, but certainly beyond their former Hezbollah hardheadedness...
I sure was sore when Lucy pulled the football away from me the last fourteen times. But I guess if you have a 12-point signed document backed by a senior Microsoft executive, you can't lose!
*orders Visual Studio.NET and MS Press books for developers*
*mentally prepares for forward charge*
- a software vendor
enjoy
indeed
In a jovial press conference, Microsoft CEO Kevin Turner just announced...
"I was thinking about things over breakfast.. you know.. about life, and what's important, and business, and so on.. and I came to thinking that we've got so much stuff at Microsoft, that we can afford to share it around a bit more. First thing we're going to do is allow Google to compete in corporate search. We'll be announcing other give-aways shortly"
There is some speculation that Microsoft will make Windows Vista free, and open up the source code.
There has been no comment from Google yet.
I'm a software visionary. I don't code.
Many of the things you blasted MS for, Apple is also "guilty" of (bloat, inability to play iTMS songs legally on Linux, inability to legally use one OSX license on 11 other Macs, etc), yet you finish by orgasming to Apple's sales report, saying you contributed to it.
You f'ing hypocrite!!
A hundred messages about a Microsoft promise and trust was not mentioned once. Mod it insightful, not a troll.
And outside of Slashdot in-the-real-world (aka Google) there aren't 10 unique occurences for the following phrases:
"stop trusting Microsoft" or "stopped trusting Microsoft"
Yep, that's why the saying goes, "Fear makes the stubborn jackass move". Arrogance only befalls the larger fish. JamesG
I think its pretty interesting that Microsoft has announced a beta product on the homepage. I don't ever remember Microsoft taking an open source branded move like this. If they are taking a move towards accurate product labeling and a larger popolution of testers, all the better!
OEM's do a horrible job choosing preloaded software. Dell, HP, Sony it doesn't matter. First day I get such a computer, I spend it removing the crap. I don't want to buy a computer like that. I'd pay a bit more to just have a plain Windows instalation with the drivers preloaded and additional software availible on CD, but not preinstalled. Or I'll just continue to do what I always do and just build my own, I guess its just relitives boxes that I have to deal with.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
However, there are 18,200 results for "don't trust Microsoft".
I just know the desasterous communication from Brad Smith in Brussels. Surely this move is also related to antitrust policy and the EU competition orders. He is a guy who burns soil and funds unsound lobbyists. The other side of the medal is that their lobbying cowboys trash Microsoft's reputation because they do adapt.
It remains important to inform antitrust agencies about Microsoft's abuse so that they could react.
Then we will see search engine competition etc. etc. etc.
"allowing other search engines like Google to be set by default"
I see, Microsoft allows me to set the default search engine on my own computer and that's enough for a whole article.
davecb5620@gmail.com
Microsoft allows this already, when I used Internet Explorer Google toolbar changed the default search page to Google. Adware does this all the time too. I don't use Internet Explorer anymore thanks to Slashdot. Posting as AC in case this gets modded troll.
body massage!
Great News.... Means I'll have to spend more time uninstalling all the crap that Dell,HP,Gateway, and all the other computer makers will now put onto PC... Guess I'll be doing a complete format and reinstall to get rid of their crap and start from scratch easier todo that than uninstall everything now... Maybe the manufacturers will add the option for changing defaults in their initial computer setup programs so i won't have to go uninstall the stuff they put on... And not to sound like im backing MS, but this is a stupid idea on their part... If you go by an Apple you'll get all of Apples products their Apple players, their Apple search their Apple software... MS should produce windows and be like here it is if you don't like what comes installed eg. Internet Explorer and Windows Media player then either download and install what you like since you can for free anyways or buy a different OS...
This happens in everyday small business as well. It even happens with office supplies. My wife does all of the contracts management for her agency, and if she agrees to only buy office supplies from a single vendor, that vendor will give her a larger discount. I don't see any problem with this.
You can and have already been able to easily change the default in IE7 and in Vista. You click on the drop down area of the search and click on add more providers. You get to a Microsoft Hosted page with at least two dozen options for search engines to add to the search providers list. Once one is added it can be easily made the default.
However, there are 18,200 results for "don't trust Microsoft".
To put it in perspective, there are over 2 million Google hits for the misspelled 'occurence' used in the parent quote.
This is not about MS allowing anything. This is about the EU not allowing the MS to continue their practice of misusing their monopoly on the desktop to dictate other markets.
--- guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people ---
Isn't this already happening today?? Coding jobs are being outsourced overseas, and Oracle in particular comes to mind, when you speak of "programs are intentionally made difficult to use, so as to drive up the necessity for consulting/customization and the fees incurred from that".
Quite a number of feel-good news coming from Redmon lately.
Maybe Ballmer is stepping down and doing some policy/image changes requested by the new guy to make it look more like he's starting on a clean slate rather than cleaning up the mess.
As a Slashdot discussion grows longer, the probability of an analogy involving cars approaches one.
Google was the default :P
There is nothing new in these principles. They have been following them all along. Although I cannot speak for what they required vendors to do, the rest of the stuff has NEVER been an issue. You have ALWAYS been able to change your default search engine in IE. You have ALWAYS been able to set another browser as your default browser in Windows. Windows or IE NEVER redirected you from your desired site to one of their sites. Microsoft, Windows, or IE NEVER charged you for accessing non-MS sites.
What Brad Smith has done is raise the bar for every competing product. Can Firefox say that vendors can configure their browser install to default to Windows Live Search? Can Redhat be configured to default to another browser?
This is really good news for consumers because it will result in more competition which is good news for consumers b/c competition will delivere more choice, better customer service and better products for consumers.
Users and manufacturers will be given the choice to change any default settings in Windows allowing them install or uninstall any software that they like with these principals. The principals will alow users to download any media player they want and run it as their default.