Slashdot Mirror


Pharaoh's Gem Brighter Than a Thousand Suns

Tamas Feher from Hungary writes "An Italian archaeologist accidentally found that the central gem in Tutankhamun's regal necklace is not amber, but a mere piece of yellow glass. Kinda cheap for the famous Egyptian pharaoh, best known for his splendid golden mask. Except that piece of glass is much older than civilization. Where did it come from, StarGate? Kind of. Scientists now think a meteorite much larger than the Tunguska event fell from the sky and exploded over the Sahara in prehistoric times. The tremendous heat of the 1000 A-bomb sized fireball melted large chunks of desert sand into perfect glass. The memory of such an apocalyptic event may have made sand-glass gems a desirable symbol, meant to emphasize the pharaoh's heavenly powers."

229 comments

  1. "accidentally found"? by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 4, Funny

    That suggests to me he dropped and broke it. :)

    1. Re:"accidentally found"? by takeya · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or maybe he was testing what value it would have on the street so he could steal it and pawn it!

      Let the accusations fly!

    2. Re:"accidentally found"? by Fordiman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hmm.

      Ok, so glass was priceless until we figured out how to make it.

      Why isn't diamond cheap yet?

      --
      110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
    3. Re:"accidentally found"? by Gryphn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Can you say "cartel"?

      --
      Fantasy and superstition should be used for entertainment purposes only.
    4. Re:"accidentally found"? by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative
      Why isn't diamond cheap yet?
      Diamonds are cheap... for anything besides jewelry. And that's mostly oligopoly pricing + labor costs (it's expensive to mine diamonds & pay professionals to cut diamonds by hand).

      Industrial quality (mined) diamonds are cheap as shiat & are actually outnumbered by synthetic diamonds (around since the 1950's but not mass produced till later).

      Until recently, nobody had a viable way of creating gem quality 'synthetic' diamonds. There are currently three companies that can do this & their diamonds are vastly cheaper than mined diamonds.

      The various diamond importers don't care so much about the synthetic industrial grade diamonds, because those types of stones were too small/imperfect to be used for gems anyways. However, they are shitting bricks over man-made gem quality stones because the 'fakes' are cheaper to produce and are literally perfect.

      So, in summary: The price of gem quality diamonds will be coming down, no matter what the big mining cartels have to say about it.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    5. Re:"accidentally found"? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My wife wears one of those man-made gem-quality diamonds. She says she was never comfortable with really expensive jewelry, and said she'd rather us take a nice vacation or buy a car instead of me buying her a diamond, so that's what we did. The gem she wears really is perfect, and a jeweler friend of ours said it was "magnificent". I won't shed any tears for the diamond industry, bloody monsters that they are, nor for the diamond merchants who in the 20th century somehow convinced everyone that diamond rings were required to demonstrate love. Let them find honest income.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:"accidentally found"? by kalel666 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sorry to go offtopic, but where did you buy your synthetic diamond?

      --
      I HAVE CUBIC WISDOM THAT TRANSCENDS AND CONTRADICTS ONE DAY GODS
    7. Re:"accidentally found"? by noy · · Score: 1

      I am curious as well - what do they run for the end customer as compared to a 'natural'?

    8. Re:"accidentally found"? by smellsofbikes · · Score: 2, Informative

      I was going to talk about how the top of the Washington Monument was made of aluminum because at the time it was nearly as valuable as gold, but it turns out that that's somewhat of an urban myth. Here's a really interesting article about the Monument and the lightning-suppression system they designed for it.

      In any case, the price of aluminum and titanium (and for that matter, beryllium, lithium, and other exotic metals) has plummetted as better production systems have come into use.

      I've read several essays discussing t-shirts, and how their design echoes manufacturing costs. When the price of a quality t-shirt is maybe double the price of a cheap one, the only way to distinguish a DKNY or Old Navy t-shirt from a cheap Hanes shirt you buy at WalMart is the (copyrighted) image on the front. You're not buying the shirt, you're buying something that bears a copyright which is known to be expensive. So also with diamonds. Wired had an interesting article about synth diamond production a couple of years ago, proposing two to four orders of magnitude cheaper diamonds for fine jewelry usage (meaning: can't be detected as synth by any known tests.) I'd love to have some diamond lenses for some of my projects, so I'm happy with these developments.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    9. Re:"accidentally found"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They're available at a slight discount from "natural" diamonds, usually. Despite the fact that the pricing should be about 10:1, they know that it's in their best interest to keep prices as high as possible... just cheap enough to be a "bargain" compared to natural diamonds, but still overpriced enough to make the manufacturers a shit-ton of money.

    10. Re:"accidentally found"? by Fox_E_Mama · · Score: 1

      story about company that manufactures synthetic diamonds http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story Id=5570666

    11. Re:"accidentally found"? by Fordiman · · Score: 1

      Heyyyy....

      With the new evaporative diamonding techniques, how long do you think it'll be 'till I can buy full-diamond eyeglass lenses for the price of polycarbonate?

      --
      110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
    12. Re:"accidentally found"? by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Informative

      1a. http://gemesis.com/wheretobuy/usa.htm
      1b. http://gemesis.com/wheretobuy/europe.htm1
      1c. http://gemesis.com/wheretobuy/asia.htm

      2. http://chatham.com/ (they sell from their website)

      Honorable Mention: http://www.apollodiamond.com/
      They will have a webstore "in 2006", but will take "special requests" in the meantime.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    13. Re:"accidentally found"? by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      See, that's a perfect example. Obviously they'd never ever scratch, but even better, carbon is lightweight *and* diamond has an unbelievable index of refraction, meaning you could get the same optical correction with half the thickness and one quarter the weight of glass. It would be weight-competitive with plastic lenses, probably about half the weight, just because of the index of refraction.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  2. Lightning? by kninja · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Doesn't lightning strike the desert? I know it doesn't rain that often in the Sahara, but still, I find that at least as plausible as a huge meteorite.

    1. Re:Lightning? by Valthan · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm sure there has been lightning strikes, but this glass was formed over an enormous area of land, and a lightning strike wouldn't make glass of this magnitude in depth and area, it would have to be something that would be much hotter and a hell of a lot bigger than lightning.

      --
      --Valthan
    2. Re:Lightning? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lightning can make fulgurite, yes, but desert glass is much more extensive than that, and it occurs in large, thick chunks rather than the typical lightning-related shapes. I'm also pretty sure the chemistry of fulgurite glass and impact-related glass would be somewhat different. It's probably one of the first possibilities they checked out.

    3. Re:Lightning? by loolgeek · · Score: 1

      Lightning, pharaon... http://news.yahoo.com/photo/060718/ids_photos_ts/r 347734292.jpg Las Vegas did it already !

    4. Re:Lightning? by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      Fulgerites are generally not particularly pretty, since they're covered in the sand that was used to create them. It's possible there are beautiful ones but the ones I've seen looked like someone's kid brother's pottery project gone badly awry.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  3. But you know... by p0tat03 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Looks like Naquadah to me...

    1. Re:But you know... by Anarke_Incarnate · · Score: 4, Funny

      or Naquadria :). I bet it was Nihrti's doing

    2. Re:But you know... by Brother+Seamus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Link for the clueless (like me).

    3. Re:But you know... by Dusanyu · · Score: 1

      it looks nothing like Predynastic Pottery. (wich is what Naquadah is a type of )

    4. Re:But you know... by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 1

      You're confusing real history with Stargate fanboy "humor".

      --
      And the brethren went away edified.
  4. weird logic in summary by wwest4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the explosion happened "before civilization" then it might be hard for there to be any memory of the "apocalyptic event" that created the glass. We're talking 800,000 years here... even before the advent of oral legend (Mmmmmmm.... oral legend).

    1. Re:weird logic in summary by AndersOSU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The event in SE asia was 800,000 years ago, presumably the even in Egypt was more recent.

      As you implied, before civilization doesn't necessarily mean that an apocolyptic event would not be repeated and mythologized for centuries.

    2. Re:weird logic in summary by Xest · · Score: 1

      Hehe, you beat me too it I was thinking the same. Read the article again though it says the Pharoah had heavenly powers, therefore it's obvious he's actually jesus in disguise and is actually an eternal being and hence DID see the event! Well that's my explanation anyway and I'm sticking to it :p

    3. Re:weird logic in summary by malsdavis · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I agree. The idea that the jewel (if it is such?) had some attached legend about the original explosion seems a little far fetched for quite a few reasons.

      Personally, I don't see why it needs a legend even if it is "just glass" to us. Back then glass had never been heard of, so a rock that is almost transparent with a yellow tint would probably have seemed amazing.

      One thing I do no understand though, if large areas of land were 'glassified', than why were bigger items or even structures not created or coated with this glass material? Why just one small jewel?

    4. Re:weird logic in summary by sirinek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Tens of thousands of years of sandstorms probably ground the "glass" back down into sand.

    5. Re:weird logic in summary by sgt+scrub · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      even before the advent of oral legend (Mmmmmmm.... oral legend).

      That would be Debbi does Dallas which was in the 70's right?

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    6. Re:weird logic in summary by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Odd... I was just in the museum last week at an exhibit of ancient art. There was quite a lot of Egyptian glass. They were probably the first civilization to produce it.

    7. Re:weird logic in summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to TFA the glass predates Egyptian history. They aren't claiming the Egyptians couldn't make glass. They're saying it's much older than known Egyptian civilizations.

    8. Re:weird logic in summary by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      The poster I replied to claimed that since glass was "unknown" to Egyptian civilization any glass they found would be a fantastically valuable gem stone by itself, no further explanation required.

      This is untrue since ancient Egyptian civilization was very familiar with glass, being one of the first human civilizations that manufactured it.

      It's called a reply for a reason.

    9. Re:weird logic in summary by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 1

      RTFA, please. There were, and still are, huge chunks of glass found in the Sahara. The article has a picture of a guy holding one. The jewel in question was carved from the glass.

      "Structures" weren't affected because there were no structures at the time, unless it happened during the Neolithic subpluvial when there might have been some nearby settlements. But there was savannah then. I don't know if glass wuold have formed as readily.

      --
      And the brethren went away edified.
  5. Volcanoes by Tx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just thinking of possible alternate sources of prehistoric yellow glass, I know volcanic glass is usually black (obsidian), but surely there are some situations in which molten lava melts sand of various compositions that happen to be in its path, and therefore could conceivably result in other colors of glass? And I know there are no volcanoes in Egypt, but it could have been brought from elsewhere, the Egyptians were known to do a bit of trading now and again. Since they don't actually seem to have any actual evidence for the meteorite theory, it seems just as plausible.

    --
    Oh no... it's the future.
    1. Re:Volcanoes by Tx · · Score: 1

      Ok, now I've finished reading backwards to the bit about the chunks of glass scattered in the desert, please shoot me.

      --
      Oh no... it's the future.
    2. Re:Volcanoes by Valthan · · Score: 1

      But there is evidence of lots of glass strewn about the desert in an isolated part... and only in that one part, even if it is a large area of land... so I doubt it was traded for, and you disproved you're own volcano theory...

      --
      --Valthan
    3. Re:Volcanoes by DuChamp+Fitz · · Score: 5, Funny

      Clearly you're ignoring the obvious source. Pterydactls with frickin' laser beams attached to their beaks.

    4. Re:Volcanoes by Valthan · · Score: 1

      Thats an awesome reference to the Corean Chronicles by Modesitt Jr. If you haven't read any, do so, they are amazing books.

      --
      --Valthan
    5. Re:Volcanoes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you suggesting Pterydactls migrate?

    6. Re:Volcanoes by Government+Drone · · Score: 5, Funny

      Depends; are they African or European pterodactyls?

    7. Re:Volcanoes by Wd2048 · · Score: 1

      Well, what difference does it make? It's a pterodactyl isn't it?

    8. Re:Volcanoes by Shadowlore · · Score: 1

      Clearly you're ignoring the obvious source. Pterydactls with frickin' laser beams attached to their beaks.

      Which would obviously dictate the need for delta winged dinosaurs.

      --
      My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
    9. Re:Volcanoes by DaPoulpe · · Score: 1

      big difference coconut-wise mate !

    10. Re:Volcanoes by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Well, what difference does it make?

      I don't know... Aaauggh@#I%No carrier.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  6. Symbolism? by thepropain · · Score: 1

    The memory of such an apocalyptic event may have made sand-glass gems a desirable symbol, meant to emphasize the pharaoh's heavenly powers." Or maybe, it's just a pretty sparkly shiny bouble...

    --
    "You know you're narcissistic when you quote yourself in your sigs." -- PRoPAiN!
  7. Or.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The actual gem was replaced with a piece of yellow glass by grave robbers who did a very good job of concealing their tracks.

    1. Re:Or.. by Alexandra+Erenhart · · Score: 1

      That sounds more plausible to me than a huge meteor on the Sahara desert. I believe in science, oh yes I do, but making up a meteorite over a yellow glass sounds too sci-fi for me.

    2. Re:Or.. by hey! · · Score: 4, Informative

      Graverobbers did indeed conceal their tracks -- to hide caches of treasure from competitors.

      Inside the tombs, they didn't waste time. They smashed open sarcophogi and ripped mummies apart looking for jewels and amulets. Anybody visiting subsequently would have found the fact of the robbery clear enough -- by the absence of any scrap of economic value.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    3. Re:Or.. by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1
      They smashed open sarcophogi
      Personally I would want to keep a sarcophagus for myself.
      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    4. Re:Or.. by hey! · · Score: 2, Funny

      Personally I would want to keep a sarcophagus for myself.

      Well, I suppose it's never to early to plan for eternity.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re:Or.. by Don_dumb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But they decided to keep the rest of the tomb with all its gold and other valuble items, completely untouched.

      I applaud you for thinking of plausible alternatives, but I just dont think grave robbers would find a tomb and then only take one item. Or bother to conceal their tracks.

      --
      If this were really happening, what would you think?
    6. Re:Or.. by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      "I don't want to achieve immortality through my works. I want to achieve immortality through not dying."-Woody Allen IIRC

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  8. RTFA again by BJH · · Score: 1

    The event 800,000 years ago was one in Southeast Asia, not Egypt. Presumably the Egyptian one was much later.

  9. How stupid would we think they were? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Situation: It is found that an item which was held in high regard or considered important by some civilisation is really just an ordinary item.

    Option 1: Similar to monkeys attracted to shiny objects, they have at some point in their baboon-fight happened to step on a piece of glass which by random chance happened to lie on top on some metal - getting lodged in the metal, and then warily but triumphantly being raised by the newfound emperor causing everyone to bow down to his shiny splendor.

    Option 2: They needed reasons to consider things important, whether that was wood, glass, textile or gems, and the most powerful people typically had the most important things, like today.

  10. The value of gems by YetAnotherBob · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is in thier rarety. Glass was a gemstone before it could be made in quantity. This necklace may be OLD. Glass, Diamond, Sapphire, Ruby, it's all the same. The jewlery industry is trying very hard right now to find some way to discount the value of man made stones, or we may soon see the value of all gems erode as the value of glass did once.

    --
    Everybody knows 3 people with my name.
    1. Re:The value of gems by dcam · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Aluminium used to be very rare and was prized as a result.

      link

      --
      meh
  11. wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't you mean the FAARGATE!?!??

    We don't vant to get sued. Just be sure it has a mohawk and a wheelchair.

    1. Re:wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well *I* wanted to call it "visiting other planets". But the studio renamed it "Wormhole X-Treme".

  12. Homework for editor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From the Slashdot summary:

    that piece of glass is much older than civilization

    From TFA:

    intriguingly it is older than the earliest Egyptian civilisation

    Compare and contrast.
    1. Re:Homework for editor by Fluffy_Kitten · · Score: 1, Informative

      the z is american english, and the s is british english.

      --
      People who have no sig are cool
    2. Re:Homework for editor by energylad · · Score: 1

      I think the author meant not the slight and frequently encountered difference between how Americans spell and how most other English-speakers spell, but the great difference between saying:

      "This is older than all human civilizations." ...versus...

      "This is older than the earliest Egyptian civilization."

      The write-up from the original news story allows for human civilizations older than the ancient Egyptians.

  13. Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by jamie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The other day I was skimming through a book I very much enjoyed as a boy: Asimov on Astronomy.

    Chapter 2 is about asteroids and comets that may impact the Earth, and how much damage they would do. He concludes with:

    In the future, perhaps, things may be different. The men in the space stations that will eventually be set up about the Earth may find themselves, among other things, on the watch for the Earth-grazers, something like the iceberg watch conducted in northern waters since the sinking of the Titanic (but much more difficult of course).

    The rocks, boulders, and mountains of space may be painstakingly tagged and numbered. Their changing orbits may be kept under steady watch. Then, a hundred years from now, perhaps, or a thousand, some computer on such a station will sound the alarm: "Collision orbit!"

    Then a counterattack, kept in waiting for all that time would be set in motion. The dangerous rock would be met with an H-bomb (or, by that time, something more appropriate) designer to trigger off on collision. The rock would glow and vaporize and change from a boulder to a conglomeration of pebbles.

    Even if they continued on course, the threat would be lifted. Earth would merely be treated to a spectacular (and harmless) shower of shooting stars.

    Asimov was writing in 1966 but still should have known better. The kinetic energy of a shattered object is the same as the intact object. The only difference is that the energy will all be shed in the atmosphere instead of mostly in the lithosphere. Human suffering might be ameliorated somewhat but unless the trajectory of the pebbles is changed, the atmosphere is still getting superheated with disasterous local, and possibly global, effects. If you're standing under the shooting-star display, then like any nearby sand, you're getting cooked.

    Yes, this ruined the ending of Deep Impact for me. Yes, I'm a geek.

    1. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by casings · · Score: 1, Insightful

      two words:

      First word: Science

      Second, and most importantly: Fiction

      It is fiction. Fiction. Fiction. Keep repeating it until you have it in your mind.

      Scrutinizing the abnormalities of fiction compared to the real world is pointless, mate.

    2. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by stg · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just a slight detail - the book he mentioned isn't science fiction, it's just science. Asimov did a lot of non-fiction, too.

    3. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think the point Asimov, and others, were getting to - local "superheating" of the atmosphere, while certainly uncomfortable, is far less likely to bring on particulate/nuclear winter, wildfires, destruction of infrastructure, Tsunami, etc. than a lithosphere impact - because it's happening locl to the ionosphere. "Disastrous" is relative - presuming some of it reaches the ground, is it the end of higher life in an area the size of New England - or is it the end of human civilisation globally period? Beyond that, spreading the impact energy over a large area/volume/time prevents it from punching through the atmosphere and delivering all that potential (and actual) kinetic and thermal energy to the lithosphere - which is, again, the point. Or lack thereof.

    4. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      While it is true that the kinetic energy of the components of a shattered object will be the same as the inital whole object there are several things you have neglected.
      1. Because the resulting pieces will be of varying size and shape, some will be below the size to successfully reach the surface before burning up.
      2. Not all the resulting component pieces will have the same tragectory, thus
        1. some pieces will miss the target
        2. the kinetic energy will be spread out over a larger area.
      3. Because the resulting pieces will be smaller and spread over a larger area, the resulting damage will be less pronounced. Think of the damage caused by getting a large tattoo. If those thousands of small pin pricks were converted into a single strike the damage would be much greater. Which would create more damage to you: three handfulls of pebbles dropped on your head, or a single rock of equivelent mass of those same three handfulls?

      Not to mention that in your own post you show that Asmiov states "or, by that time, something more appropriate". This indicates to me that the best tool available at the time was a nuke and Asimov understood that it may not be the best tool but was the only one available and that in the future there may be better tools.
      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    5. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, assuming that the energy is evenly distributed throughout the atmosphere* and that no part of the body impacts the earth directly, even a 10 million megaton impact would only increase the temperature of the atmosphere by a little less than 8 Kelvin by my figures. That would be bad, but the time to dissapeate that extra energy is not long in the grand scheme of things, and doesn't make anyplace on the surface much less livable than it is right now.

      *I realize that during the impact the energy would not be evenly distributed, and that there would be places that got much hotter for short periods of time (there's a good chance these places would be the ocean though). My point is that even huge amounts of kenetic energy only translate to a few degrees difference on a global scale, and that an atmospheric impact is therefore greatly desirable in comparison to an impact with land or water.

    6. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original poster was talking about the flash-baking you'd get as all that heat energy is dumped into the atmosphere, not the effect of getting hit by smaller rocks. All that energy will be dissipated into the Earth somehow — modulo any misses which may or may not be likely depending on how far out the asteroid is shattered — and will have a huge effect at least if the asteroid is of "dinosaur-killer" size.

    7. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Phanatic1a · · Score: 1

      Because the resulting pieces will be of varying size and shape, some will be below the size to successfully reach the surface before burning up.

      Again, this doesn't provide much in the way of salvation. Take the mass of a big meteor, take its approach speed, figure the kinetic energy. If it's big enough to cause catastrophic effects if it stays in one piece and impacts the surface, it's big enough to cause catastrophic effects if you pulverize the entire thing down to dust and let it burn up as it enters the atmosphere.

      Not all the resulting component pieces will have the same tragectory, thus

      Why not? Before you do whatever it is you do, the rock has a big velocity vector pointing at the earth. Energy that goes into breaking rock isn't going to alter that velocity vector.

      Because the resulting pieces will be smaller and spread over a larger area, the resulting damage will be less pronounced.

      Oh no, no, no, no, no. One trillion tons of impactor is a really bad thing. One trillion tons of impactor broken up into 1,000 billion-ton impactors would be vastly, vastly worse. A single big impactor "wastes" a lot of energy throwing chunks of the lithosphere out into escape trajectories. Lots of smaller impactors cause far more widespread destruction.

    8. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by ForemastJack · · Score: 1

      Before I ask my question, one point:

      Yes, this ruined the ending of Deep Impact for me.

      Actually, I don't think any Deep Impact needed any help ruining itself.

      But, back to Asimov, wouldn't the effects you describe depend upon the distance the object is from Earth when our flyboys detonate it? If we shattered the object close to Earth, presumabably the debris would not have the chance to disperse and the scenario you describe would occur. But, if you hit it far enough out (an AU? more?) then wouldn't the debris field begin to disperse/lose kinetic energy? At that point, perhaps such a scheme would work.

      Anyhoo, not a big deal. Honestly, we're nitpicking about a single point in a book written 40 years ago for laymen. And thanks, by the way, for referencing Asimov on Astronomy. I read it once when I was a little boy, and now I have to go buy it. I have a little boy at home, now, and I want him to look up at the sky at night the way I did.

    9. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1

      Possible solution to the problem of kinetic energy:

      Once you've sufficiently shattered a rock, detonate a series of warheads, using their released energy to divert and/or slow down the resulting debris cloud.

      If we can bust up a planet-killing asteroid, we should have ample power to redirect its leftovers.

      Oh, and it most certainly would lose energy and mass, as far as the threat to earth is concerned.

      If you detonated a nuke inside it that shattered it, then the radial nature of the explosion would push significant portions of the mass off the path to collision with Earth (this assumes that we detect the threat in time and approach it with enough time left for the fragments to drift apart, and not blow it up two hours before impact).

      If you slammed a nuke into the side of it, all the energy release by the nuke that the rock absorbs would be pushing it away from Earth. It wouldn't be enough to alter its course (probably) but it would reduce kinetic energy. And again, fragments would be ejected that would not be on course to collide with earth.

      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    10. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Retric · · Score: 1

      There is little you could do to a trillion ton impactor (It's #$@*ing 10 miles wide). But look at your numbers for a ~10 billion ton ~mile wide impactor over the ocean.

      1000 billion 10 lb rocks would dump more energy into the upper atmosphere and they will flash boil a lot of ocean. But they are going to cause a much smaller wave. Because the wave is what would cause most of the devastation from such an impact it's vary usefull.

      It's not going to fix everything but ~70% of the time your going to hit the ocean so it's a reasonable aproach for a lot of these situations.

    11. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Gulthek · · Score: 2, Informative

      In fact, Asimov has a book in each of the Dewey Decimal System classifications.

    12. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by DerekLyons · · Score: 2, Informative
      While it is true that the kinetic energy of the components of a shattered object will be the same as the inital whole object there are several things you have neglected.

      There are several *huge* things you have neglected. (or alternatively; you've posted what seems to be the 'common sense' version. However, as often happens in science, 'common sense' is wrong.)
       
       
      1. Because the resulting pieces will be of varying size and shape, some will be below the size to successfully reach the surface before burning up.

      They'll still dump large amounts of energy and dust into the Earth's atmosphere. That's the *real* cause of the damage from an asteroid impact - the crater and tsunami's are just eye candy.
       
       
      2.Not all the resulting component pieces will have the same tragectory, thus
      1. some pieces will miss the target
      2. the kinetic energy will be spread out over a larger area.

      I invite you to compare the damage done to a human body that is hit by a) a .45 and b) a shotgun blast. The difference between the two is spectacular visually - but the end result is the same.
       
       
      3. Because the resulting pieces will be smaller and spread over a larger area, the resulting damage will be less pronounced. Think of the damage caused by getting a large tattoo. If those thousands of small pin pricks were converted into a single strike the damage would be much greater. Which would create more damage to you: three handfulls of pebbles dropped on your head, or a single rock of equivelent mass of those same three handfulls?

      That's the real trick - we aren't comparing a handful of pebbles to one rock. We are comparing a .45 to the chest to a OO buckshot shotgun blast to the chest. The kinetic energy of the two is (roughly) on the same order - and despite the visual differences in damage, both are going to leave you in a deep world of hurt.
    13. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Phanatic1a · · Score: 1

      using their released energy to divert and/or slow down the resulting debris cloud.

      If you can do that, why not just use their released energy to divert or slow down the impactor in the first place, causing it to miss altogether? Why spend all that energy breaking it up if you just have to steer it away anyway?

      If we can bust up a planet-killing asteroid, we should have ample power to redirect its leftovers.

      It also follows that if you can bust up a planet-killing asteroid, you should have ample power to simply divert its course, instead. So why not do that?

    14. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by tinkerghost · · Score: 1
      Again, this doesn't provide much in the way of salvation. Take the mass of a big meteor, take its approach speed, figure the kinetic energy. If it's big enough to cause catastrophic effects if it stays in one piece and impacts the surface, it's big enough to cause catastrophic effects if you pulverize the entire thing down to dust and let it burn up as it enters the atmosphere.
      Nobody is disagreeing that the effect wouldn't be catastrophic, however there are degrees of catastrophy. Huricane Andrew was a catastrophy in Florida, but nowhere near as big as Katrina in New Orleans. Atmospheric warming combined with a few (relatively) small craters is preferable to firestorm, earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear winter.
      Why not? Before you do whatever it is you do, the rock has a big velocity vector pointing at the earth. Energy that goes into breaking rock isn't going to alter that velocity vector.
      A Velocity vector is a vector sum of all of the components in the system. The conservation of momentum implies that the sum of the vectors will remain constant. Assuming the destructive force creates no momentum change in the asteriod [virtually impossible] then that means only the sum of the vectors remains the same. 10% of the mass can be vector deviated 10deg stellar north as long as an equal mass is vector deviated 10 deg stellar south. In effect you change the asteriod from a point mass to a cone vector - some of the cone will hit earth, some of it won't. Additionally, you will also time offset some of the impacts - allowing heat dissepation and geographic change - ensuring that at least a good portion of the small impacts will be in the oceans.
      Finally, you also have a phenomenon called atmospheric bounce. Put your hand outside the window of a car moving @ 60MPH. Angle it up @ 20deg & feel how much force is generated. Same thing happens when a rock hits the atmosphere at a glancing angle - a force is created under the rock tossing it back into space, if the rock is small enough to have it's vector affected by the force. For a huge rock, the weight to surface ratio is very high, resulting in a relatively low acceleration out of the atmosphere - not enough to create any significant vector change. For a small rock, the weight to surface ratio changes dramatically - allowing some of the small ones to skip out of the atmosphere with relatively little transfer of energy.
    15. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by tinkerghost · · Score: 1
      That's the real trick - we aren't comparing a handful of pebbles to one rock. We are comparing a .45 to the chest to a OO buckshot shotgun blast to the chest. The kinetic energy of the two is (roughly) on the same order - and despite the visual differences in damage, both are going to leave you in a deep world of hurt.
      Hmm, if I have the choice, please shoot me in the chest with the shotgun. That way the impact is distributed over the surface of my bullet proof vest (atmosphere) and causes significantly less damage to me (earth's crust). Either way, it's going to hurt like a mother, but I'm much more likely to walk away from the shotgun with a few bruises than the .45 and it's broken ribs.
    16. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Awod · · Score: 1

      Now this is why I love slashdot; I may not always know everything that everybody else does but I certainly learn a lot by reading it.

    17. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by rjhubs · · Score: 1

      umm, damage to the earth's crust isn't the problem.. Granted a big crater could be an inconvience, but not mass worldly extintction. The problem is all the heat that is generated from an impact that could be life ending. And how is the atmosphere a bullet proof vest? A bulletproof vest isn't necessary me to live. Yet a planet without atmosphere isn't very conducive to life..

    18. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by jamie · · Score: 1

      That's true. I'd hope the "men" in the space stations would be able to shatter the asteroid a very long ways from Earth. In that case the pebble-sized chunks would be widely dispersed by the time their expanding orbits intersected Earth's orbit, and perhaps only a small percentage of the asteroid's original mass would burn up in our atmosphere. One could be generous and assume Asimov meant this when he wrote "even if [the pebbles] continued on course..."

      Hey, I'm glad I helped inspire you and your kid. I think "Asimov on Science," "Asimov on Chemistry," and this book inspired me to look at science as something wonderful to enjoy. By the time "Cosmos" came along a few years later, Asimov had already coaxed me into that world.

    19. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by jamie · · Score: 2, Informative

      Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy: SPOILERS: Review: Deep Impact

      Bad: Minutes before final impact, the astronauts blow up the second comet, and we are treated to a spectacular light show.

      Good: Aaaaarrgg! This was the Biggest Baddest Astronomy in the movie. Blowing up a comet does no good at all, and might even make matters worse. Just because the pieces are smaller doesn't mean you have changed anything. If every piece still impacts the Earth (by that I mean actually is stopped by the Earth or its atmosphere) you are still dumping all the kinetic energy of The Comet into the Earth's atmosphere! That's a HUGE amount of energy, dumped in practically all at once. It would still create a massive explosion, dwarfing all of our nuclear bombs combined. Even if you could somehow soften the blow, all that heat would wreak havoc with our weather. Some people actually think it might be better to simply let a big one hit rather than blow it up, because the Earth itself can absorb the energy of impact better than the atmosphere can. This is still argued, though. I'd prefer not to try any experiments!

    20. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ok, time to burst your little ego bubble. It looks to me like you are using a false analogy, mostly because you are a dumbass.

      A 12ga 00 buckshot round is made up of the equivalent of 9 54 grain .33 caliber rounds. That would make a single 12ga 00 buckshot round about the equivalent of 6 .45 ACP rounds in mass. The kinetic energy of a .45 round is about 340 ft-lbs. For 9 pellet 12 ga 00 buckshot it is about 1,810 ft-lbs. Not a fair comparison. We can however compare a 450 grain SABOT round for a 12ga shotgun. (9 * 54 = 486 giving the buckshot round more mass)

      Now, let's talk range. 9 pellet 00 buckshot at 50 yards averages 3 hits. The same round at 75 yards averages 1 hit. At 100 yards, the pellet arrives with a velocity of about 780 ft/sec. As you can see, shotgun pellets diverge upon leaving the gun. So would the pieces of a possible impactor. The would diverge in a cone shaped pattern. Said spread could be enhanced by using a second nuke. The single 450 grain sabot will the target and it will do so with about 1050 ft/sec.

      Now, let's talk about penetration power. A single large object has more penetrating power than multiple smaller objects. Interestingly, the results of comparison testing at 7 yards:

      round | Ballistic Gel | SAE 1010 .138" steel plate

      Buckshot | 13-15 inches | no penetration
      450 slug | 21 inches | penetration

      Looks like multiple smaller impactors do less damage than a single massive impactor.

      Thank you for playing.
      source

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    21. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Take the mass of a big meteor, take its approach speed, figure the kinetic energy. If it's big enough to cause catastrophic effects if it stays in one piece and impacts the surface, it's big enough to cause catastrophic effects if you pulverize the entire thing down to dust and let it burn up as it enters the atmosphere.


      Prove this. I expect it should be difficult because much more meteor dust rains down in a single day than most would believe.

      A single big impactor "wastes" a lot of energy throwing chunks of the lithosphere out into escape trajectories.

      So do smaller impactors.

      See the comparison of buckshot to slugs in the other reply.
      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    22. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by iocat · · Score: 1

      It's not as cool to just "divert it," when you can blow it the fsck up.

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    23. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1

      Picture a stick of dynamite under a large rock, and another under a pile of sand with mass equal to that of the rock. Which do you think will move more...the rock or the sand?

      Let's say we drill a hole into the asteroid and manage to break it up with a really big nuke. Then we have a lot of smaller rocks heading our way, and a lot more smaller rocks thrown out of collision course. As the debris cloud approaches earth, we detonate another nuke or two just ask the cloud reaches the warhead. More debris is redirected, and even more is slowed down significantly.

      The same three warheads on the surface of the intact asteroid wouldn't have near that effect...by breaking up the asteroid and then using nukes to redirect the debris, you give the nukes much more surface area to act on, and much less massive objects to push.

      --
      120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
    24. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You're assuming Asimov was talking about a really big asteroid. Blowing up something smaller would indeed be useful.

      Suppose you had an asteroid big enough to destroy New York, heading for New York (or better yet, the middle of the Atlantic). Perhaps we don't want New York destroyed. The asteroid doesn't carry enough kinetic energy to to anything all that spectacular to the atmosphere as a whole but if all that energy is concentrated in one place it does a lot of damage. Spread it out in the form of little pebbles and you get a really spectacular meteor shower.

    25. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Sure. Problem is, applying that power tends to break up the asteroid. Especially when the thing is really just a big pile of flying gravel to start with.

      Ever noticed how nuclear bombs are way smaller than nuclear power stations? That's because it's a lot easier to release the energy destructively all at the same time than it is to be subtle about it.

    26. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Phanatic1a · · Score: 1

      Let's say we drill a hole into the asteroid and manage to break it up with a really big nuke.

      That's not, at all, how you'd want to do it. The whole idea of using nukes to divert meteors is that you *don't* set the nuke off in direct contact. You set it off at a certain standoff distance based on the size of the nuke, the size of the meteor, and so forth. The radient energy from the nuclear weapon, which will be mostly x-rays if you set it off in space, will flash some of the meteor into plasma. As that plasma expands, it pushes on the meteor.

    27. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by ChrisA90278 · · Score: 1
      Asimov was writing in 1966 but still should have known better.

      If the big nuke were delivered far enough ahead of time the debries fild of smaller rocks would be very large, Likely much larger then the Earch. If it were that larg then most of it would miss the earth and those which did hit would be spread out over time, maybe even over a several hours or days long period. But yes you are corect the TOTAL kinetic energy remains the same

      Would you rather have me drop 10,000 one pound rocks on you over a two day period and have 80 % of them miss you or would you like one 10,000 pound rock to hit you? The total kinetic energy of the rocks is the same in either case. The span of TIME over which the collision takes place matters. Given time the heat can be absorbed by a larger mass of air

      Also, you could light off the nukes inside deep crater or hole and nudge the orbit slightly, Basically make an atomic powered rocket where the force of the blast propels rock and debries on mosly one direction and the reaction moves the orbit very slighly. With 20 years advance notice it does not take much to defect an asteriod.

    28. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Phanatic1a · · Score: 1

      Prove this.

      Trillion-ton meteor. Typical earth-crossing velocity of 17kps. That's 1.3E20 joules of kinetic energy. One big rock, or lots of dust, it's still the same mass, the same velocity, and the same amount of kinetic energy that's going to be liberated when it all impacts the atmosphere. That's like a 31 gigaton bomb going off in the upper atmosphere. Say, 100 miles up.

      Radius of total destruction for a 31 gigaton bomb is well over 100 miles. The atmosphere would rush towards earth like a falling anvil, causing massive destruction even before you consider what the thermal radiation would do to anything exposed.

      I expect it should be difficult because much more meteor dust rains down in a single day than most would believe.

      Distributed over the entire area of the atmosphere, spread out in time over 24 hours. Arrange for it all to show up at very close to the same place at what is a good approximation of the same instant, and I guarantee you wouldn't want to be around.

      See the comparison of buckshot to slugs in the other reply.

      What comparison? Would you rather I shot you with 9 .308-caliber pellets amounting to about 1.5 ounces or would you rather I shoot you with a single 12-gauge slug amounting to 1.5 ounces? You're just as fucked, it's just that the wound track would be different.

    29. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Phanatic1a · · Score: 1

      Especially when the thing is really just a big pile of flying gravel to start with.

      Only some. Metal meteors are a pretty good approximation to 'solid chunk of metal.'

    30. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Which is why I said especially.

      We'd actually have a shot at deflecting a metal meteor (rather than blowing it up into pieces). A stony asteroid would probably just shatter if it wasn't already a pile of gravel or sand.

    31. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      Ok, time to burst your little ego bubble. It looks to me like you are using a false analogy, mostly because you are a dumbass.

      No, I used a simple analogy to illustrate complex scientific concepts. Mistakenly, you take that analogy too far.
       
      Breaking up an impactor does not significantly reduce the damage. Search the literature, talk to actual scientists - and you'll find I'm correct and you are not. If you've been paying attention over the last few years, you'll note that discussion has moved from attacking impactors to diversion schemes. There's a reason for that.
    32. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      [sigh]I use a simple analogy to illustrate a complex scientific topic - and somebody always has to take it too far.
      That's the real trick - we aren't comparing a handful of pebbles to one rock. We are comparing a .45 to the chest to a OO buckshot shotgun blast to the chest. The kinetic energy of the two is (roughly) on the same order - and despite the visual differences in damage, both are going to leave you in a deep world of hurt.

      Hmm, if I have the choice, please shoot me in the chest with the shotgun. That way the impact is distributed over the surface of my bullet proof vest (atmosphere)

      At cosmic scales, the atmosphere is about as bullet proof as your average sheet of toilet tissue.
       
       
      and causes significantly less damage to me (earth's crust).

      Nobody is worried about damage to the crust. What scientists are worried about is dumping large amounts of particulates and energy into the earth's atmosphere.
    33. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by syncrotic · · Score: 1

      Your theory is that it doesn't matter whether the asteroid arrives intact or in a million pieces, because the damage is done by the transfer of kinetic energy to the earth. A huge dust cloud burning up in the atmosphere will indeed release the same amount of energy as one massive rock, but the effects will be vastly different.

      I think some back of the envelope arithmetic will show why.

      Let's say we have a 500x500x500m block of rock heading toward us with a specific gravity of 5. That's 6.25e11 kg. Let's say it's traveling at an initial velocity of 100km/s, or 1e5 m/s.

      The kinetic energy of this asteroid is 3.13e21 J, and because the asteroid's final velocity is zero, that all gets dumped on our little planet.

      If that energy arrives as one big impact, we're pretty well screwed. On the other hand, if the asteroid completely burns up in the atmosphere, then all of that kinetic energy is turned into heat. So the question becomes this: just how much is 3.13e21 joules of thermal energy, and what will it do to us?

      Well, let's consider how much energy the earth receives from the sun. The radius of the planet is 6350km, so it's cross sectional area is 2.17e14 square meters. The sun puts out about 1400 W/m^2 at the earth's orbit. This means that the earth gets 1.77e17 joules of energy every second.

      Thus, the aforementioned asteroid will release an amount of thermal energy equivalent 17600 seconds of sunlight, or about 4.9 hours. That would probably make for some interesting weather for a couple of days, but it wouldn't have a significant and long-lasting impact on the planet's climate.

    34. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Deadstick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nearly everybody is missing the point. Blow the object into smithereens, and every smithereen acquires its own vector increment of velocity. The farther away it is at the time of the detonation, the farther those increments take the pieces away from the original trajectory. So it was headed for Chicago? OK, some of the pieces will hit there. Some will hit Lake Michigan. Some will hit Caracas. And quite a few will miss the planet altogether.

      The answer to your pellets-vs-slug question? At ten feet, it doesn't matter. At a hundred yards, you damn well bet I'd take the pellets.

      rj

    35. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1
      At cosmic scales, the atmosphere is about as bullet proof as your average sheet of toilet tissue.
      What do you wipe your butt with?!?!? My 2-ply has no chance of stopping a bullet, but the Earth's atmosphere blocks meteors less than 35 meters wide so completely that they don't even reach the surface.

      Nobody is worried about damage to the crust. What scientists are worried about is dumping large amounts of particulates...
      Most of the particulates from an impact would be rock from Earth that are shattered, not from the meteor. If the meteor was turned into dust first, there wouldn't be nearly enough to cause major climate change.

      ...and energy into the earth's atmosphere.
      Nobody is that worried about the energy. On a global scale, it's insignifigant.
    36. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1
      The problem is all the heat that is generated from an impact that could be life ending.
      The heat isn't the problem, it's the dust. If enough dust was dumped into the atmosphere sunlight wouldn't reach the surface, and things wouldn't be so nice for us surface critters.

      And how is the atmosphere a bullet proof vest?
      It blocks a tremendous number of meteors from hitting the Earth every day. And the ones it doesn't stop are slowed tremendously.

      Yet a planet without atmosphere isn't very conducive to life.
      I don't get this, how are we losing our atmosphere?

    37. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1
      Breaking up an impactor does not significantly reduce the damage.
      If surrounding fluid had no signifigant effect, you'd be correct, but in this case the atmosphere will treat one large object much differently than many small ones. Breaking up the object increases its surface area, and has the same effect a parachute would. Imagine a major-league pitcher throwing a handful of dry sand at a batter's head - a ball could knock him out, but the sand probably won't even reach him.

      If you've been paying attention over the last few years, you'll note that discussion has moved from attacking impactors to diversion schemes. There's a reason for that.
      Yes, but not the reason you're giving. Blasting the object into pieces is like wearing your seatbelt in a crash, you lessen the damage you take, in this case the extinction-causing impact is turned into a few city-leveling ones or even just a few isolated strikes. Deflection is more like using your brakes to stop the crash from happening - it becomes a non-event. That's why it's prefered.
    38. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      The answer to your pellets-vs-slug question? At ten feet, it doesn't matter. At a hundred yards, you damn well bet I'd take the pellets.

      huh?

      You'd rather get shot nine times with a .308 from 100 yards away than a single shot from a 12-gauge that is 100 yards away?

      That doesn't make much sense. If the 12-gauge slug makes it 100 yards, I'd be surprised if it would do much damage at all. However, 100 yards is nothing to a deer rifle like a .308. You'd be quite dead after being hit nine times with a .308 at 100 yards. The bullets would probably go right through you.

    39. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by irw · · Score: 1

      Needlessly abusive, and entirely misunderstanding the point.

      As someone who actually watched the full Horizon show last night, let me retell what the physicist (Boslough), who's field of expertise is big explosions, explained.

      A small object striking the atmosphere is more likely to explode than a big object. A single big meteorite will smash into the earth and leave a big crater. A smaller object may explode before it hits the ground, leaving practically no crater. A collection of small objects together (something like Matilda, which is described as a "rubble pile" asteroid) which fragments and whose fragments then explode, creates a fireball plume extending (in the case of the shoemaker-levi event on jupiter) around 300 kilometres back into space.

      Boslough computer-modelled a 120 metre meteorite exploding just above the earth's surface. The resulting fireball extended 80 kilometres back in to space. Approximately 10,000 times more powerful than the Trinity nuclear test in New Mexico.

      Applying some simple physics explains the effect. Shockwaves propagate faster in denser matter. A full impact imparts the bulk of its energy into the ground, which transmit the energy away quickly. An explosion in the air imparts the bulk of its energy into the air which, being less dense, transmits the shockwaves more slowly, and less far, than the ground. Therefore the energy is confined to a smaller part of the earth's surface (and most of it above ground).

      The penetrative effect is, as you noted, significantly less, but that's rather irrelevant. Big holes in the ground don't kill things; 10-mile wide fireballs at 1800 celsius on the surface do.

      For a suitable analogy, consider the fuel-air bomb, usually described as the most powerful non-nuclear explosive. It explodes above the ground, but does more damage above the surface than an impact-detonated bomb of comparable (or greater?) mass.

    40. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Missing the point of the whole theory.

      One massive object drills through the atmosphere and thumps into the earth, largely intact. Massive impact crater, shockwave and so forth - fine, not desirable. But if the same mass is just a loose aggregate (like, say, Shoemaker-Levy), as it drills into the atmosphere it comes apart, and the whole thing burns up. Yes, the impact effects are next to nothing - but you certainly don't want to be under it, because all that kinetic energy has nowhere to go but into heat. The result is a massive fireball, and if the mass is big enough, temperatures as the surface of the sun over an area tens to hundreds of miles across. No crater - just thousands of square miles of vitrification. Oh - and no survivors.

    41. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Deadstick · · Score: 1
      You still aren't getting it. First, one-ninth of a 12-gauge slug would be 48 grains -- that's a .22 bullet, not a .308. Second, you're assuming the projectiles all follow the same trajectory, and that's impossible. Blowing up a meteorite would be analogous to firing those nine .22 bullets from a shotgun. So...load up a shotgun with #00 buckshot (that's about the same pellet weight), fire it at a human-size silhouette target at 100 yards, and count the holes. If you find any.

      The explosion alters the trajectory of every particle. That's the point of the exercise.

      rj

    42. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Decaff · · Score: 1

      Once you've sufficiently shattered a rock, detonate a series of warheads, using their released energy to divert and/or slow down the resulting debris cloud.

      It wouldn't work. The kinetic energy of many rocks that are dangerous can be phenomenal - we are talking about vastly more than the entire nuclear arsenal of the world. Shattering something into pieces is (literally) astronomically easier than diverting the mass.

    43. Re:Asimov (and Hollywood) got it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your fallacy is that your intuition rightly tells you that the buck shot will lose most of its kinetic energy due to wind resistance if it's fired from a long distance. That intiution fails you on the scale we're talking about here.

      On the scale we're discussing, the apples-to-apples comparison of damage done is having a shotgun fired almost point blank vs a rifle fired almost point blank. Forget the whole stupid 100 yards comparison.

  14. More than Likely... by casings · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The glass was placed there to foreshadow the upcoming apocalypse in the middle east.

    where upon the US Congress (pdf link: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/policy/d od/jp3_12fc2.pdf) will unleash 1000 A-Bombs unto the region unless our noble nobel winners (http://physics.ucsd.edu/petition/) can remind the administration of the impact a large glass field could have upon our environment.

    1. Re:More than Likely... by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Nah. In the future, when they nuke stuff back to the stone age, they really do it... ;).

      --
    2. Re:More than Likely... by Tweekster · · Score: 1

      Except congress doesnt have the authority to use nuclear weapons...

      Congress and the current administration are two different entities, in fact they are two totally different branches of the US govt.

      --
      The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
    3. Re:More than Likely... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Congress does have the authority to use nuclear weapons, you dumbass. Congress is in charge of controlling where and how our military is used. The President is just in charge of executing the laws and rules they pass, and they can pass laws down the micromanagement level of 'At two o'clock today, you will nuke X'.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    4. Re:More than Likely... by cataclyst · · Score: 1

      ...or at least they used to be.

      --
      E = m * c^(Hammer)
  15. Not 800,000 years by swillden · · Score: 1

    We're talking 800,000 years here... even before the advent of oral legend

    The event 800,000 years ago was over Southeast Asia, and was "even more powerful and damaging than the one in the Egyptian desert". The article doesn't provide any indication of when the Egyptian event might have occurred. If it happened just a few thousand years ago, it might have been within the memory of Egyptians. Of course, the article doesn't give any information suggesting that it was that recent, either.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    1. Re:Not 800,000 years by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Informative
      From Wikipedia:

      The color of "natural glass" is green to bluish green. This colour is caused by naturally occurring iron impurities in the sand. Common glass today usually has a slight green or blue tint, arising from these same impurities. Glassmakers learned to make coloured glass by adding metallic compounds and mineral oxides to produce brilliant hues of red, green, and blue - the colours of gemstones. When gem-cutters learned to cut glass, they found clear glass was an excellent refractor of light. The earliest known beads from Egypt were made during the New Kingdom, about 1500 BC and came in a variety of colours. They were made by winding molten glass around a metal bar and were highly prized as a trading commodity, especially blue ones because they were reported to have magical powers.

      The Egyptians also made small jars and bottles using the core-formed method. Glass threads were wound around a bag of sand tied to a rod and the glass was continually reheated to fuse the threads together. The glass had to be kept in motion until the required shape and thickness was achieved. The final step was to allow the rod to cool then to puncture the bag and remove the rod. The Egyptians also formed the first coloured glass rods which they used to create colourful beads and decorations, they also worked with cast glass. [2]. By the 5th century BCE this technology had spread to at least Greece. In the first century BC there were many glass centres located around the Mediterranean and at the eastern end of the Mediterranean glass blowing, both free-blowing and mould-blowing, was discovered.


      Considering that the Egyptians were one of the first civilizations to master glassworks, it seems somewhat unlikely that the Pharaoh's prized gem would be mere glass. Unless, that is, there were other legends or sources of value attributed to the gem. Given the unusual color of the glass (for the period), it seems quite reasonable that it being formed by "the light of a thousand suns" was the source of its value.
    2. Re:Not 800,000 years by Cheapy · · Score: 1

      So what is it, BC or BCE?

      Even if they want to use the "politcally correct" way of saying it, they should atleast keep it consistent.

      --
      Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
    3. Re:Not 800,000 years by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given the unusual color of the glass (for the period), it seems quite reasonable that it being formed by "the light of a thousand suns" was the source of its value.

      Well, that's assuming that someone saw the meteor strike, wasn't killed by it, and the legend was passed down through the generations. That's quite a lot to swallow with their being no evidence for any of it.

      The distinguishing feature of the glass is that it isn't man made. Given that glass beads were common in Egypt in 1500 BC, and Tut ruled around 1300 BC, I'd say they must have known this wasn't just normal man-made glass. Perhaps they found it in the desert, but knew of glass as only a man-made substance. Finding something in the middle of nowhere in large chunks that couldn't possibly be made by a person, but which you've only seen before as being made by a person is pretty amazing. It'd be like finding big chunks of pure iron in the middle of knowhere. You've seen Iron before, but it's something that's created by people. I could easily see that such a find would make this glass special.

      In fact, the earliest known uses of Iron around 4000 BCE come from meteorites. From wikipedia:

      The first signs of use of iron come from the Sumerians and the Egyptians, where around 4000 BCE, a few items, such as the tips of spears, daggers and ornaments, were being fashioned from iron recovered from meteorites.

      Which brings up the possibility that this glass was found before glassmaking became common, so it had a special value assigned to it. The point I'm trying to make is that no one had to see the actual meteor impact to know that this was special glass.
      --
      AccountKiller
    4. Re:Not 800,000 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless, that is, there were other legends or sources of value attributed to the gem.......The color of "natural glass" is green to bluish green.

      Note that this gem is yellow, not the more common (relatively) green kind. So the color might have something to do with it.

      Also, perhaps how it was aquired or where it was aquired had significance. Or the fact that king tut had the resources to make elaborate and intricate jewelry while his underlings did not.

      It's not hard to see where value might be derived from this.

    5. Re:Not 800,000 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a fireball big enough to create the glass would be visible outside of the blast area.

      I'd think the light of ten thousand suns would be visible from a long way away, big enough and bright enough for a lot of people to see a flash or a bright light. I'd bet that thousands of people saw something, certainly enough for a myth to be started.

      It only took a few people seeing a weather balloon to create an alien landing in Roswell.

    6. Re:Not 800,000 years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That assumes that the ancient Egyptians had the same notions of value about stones that we have today (for instance, valuing diamonds the most because DeBeer's shelled out so much advertising as being the best). How rare is this yellow glass? How beautiful? Is it the exact correct symbolic color for anything in the pharaoh's theology?

      I don't think we can correctly assume a pharaoh would not have glass in his finery.

    7. Re:Not 800,000 years by djmurdoch · · Score: 1

      Well, that's assuming that someone saw the meteor strike, wasn't killed by it, and the legend was passed down through the generations. That's quite a lot to swallow with their being no evidence for any of it.

      Especially since the glass is 28.5 million years old.

  16. I *prefer* man-made gems by HighOrbit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When you go to the jewlrey story, you'll find that the prettiest gems with the deepest color are the man-made gems. The natural gems look faded and washed-out in contrast to the "laboratory" made versions. The man-made emeralds are the deepest green, the man-made rubies are the deepest red, and man-made saphires are the brightest blue.

    For some people the value might be in the scarcity of the natural gems, but for me the value is in the aesthetic decorative value of gem (with the lab gems being usually of better color).

  17. Old News! by VincenzoRomano · · Score: 1

    It has been already published by New Scientist on 10 july 1999!

    --
    Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
    For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
    1. Re:Old News! by neersign · · Score: 1

      Giancarlo Negro

      ...and his sidekick Tim Whitey

  18. impact crater anyone? by Intangion · · Score: 5, Interesting

    i wonder if they are aware of this HUUUUGE 19 mile wide impact crator nearby ;)

    http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060303_big_c rater.html

    i mean this crater is sooo damn big that it wasnt even noticed till it was seen by satalites

    theres on in europe like that too
    its sooooo damn huge, an entire town is built in it, and an entire cathedral was built using a special rock that only forms from extreeeme compression and no one even knew it was a crater until some scientists realized the cathedral was built from that rock

    when they are tooo big its hard to notice

    like when you capture a lizard and it escapes and crawls onto the back of your arm, and thinks its safe cause it cant see your face ;)

    your so big compared to him that it doesnt even realize its still on you ;)

    1. Re:impact crater anyone? by Troed · · Score: 1

      Actually, that might very well be spot on. Thanks for the link!

      The impact that carved Kebira might have created an extensive field of yellow-green silica fragments, known as desert glass and found on the surface between the giant dunes of the Great Sand Sea in southwestern Egypt, the researchers said.

    2. Re:impact crater anyone? by djmurdoch · · Score: 1

      Some of them are aware of the possible link.

      Regarding the possibility of the "memory of such an apocalyptic event": not too likely. According to the same article, the glass has been dated at roughly 28 million years old.

    3. Re:impact crater anyone? by Zan+Zu+from+Eridu · · Score: 4, Informative

      The european crater you referred to is probably the Nördlinger Ries in Germany. Gene Shoemaker was on holiday in Nördlingen with his wife, when they discovered the stones used to build the local St. George Cathedral contained suevite and came up with the impact crater hypothesis. In 1961 he and Edward Chao proved it was actually an impact crater.

    4. Re:impact crater anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2445'00.14 N 2457'16.36 E

    5. Re:impact crater anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      24'45'00.14 N 24'57'16.36 E

      Slashdot doesn't like the degrees symbol apparently..

    6. Re:impact crater anyone? by darthlurker · · Score: 1
    7. Re:impact crater anyone? by irw · · Score: 1

      Farouk El-baz (who discovered the above crater) was interviewed on the Horizon show. He said he could not find a crater of the required 30 million-year-old age near enough to the site of the glass (date from uranium decay in the glass itself).

      That said, the date of the article you link to is march 2006. It is possible it was discovered after the Horizon show was filmed.

  19. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by random+coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I agree with you. However in 200 years when synthetic pure white diamond is used commercially in very large crystals, when corundums(i.e. saphires) are used for windows, our great grandchildren will wonder about us wearing what is to them just glass. I wonder what jewelry will be like when our physical scarcity matches our current digital scarcity. How will we adapt to such abundance?

  20. 1000 A-bomb sized fireball ... by dredson · · Score: 1
    "The tremendous heat of the 1000 A-bomb sized fireball melted large chunks of desert sand into perfect glass. The memory of such an apocalyptic event may have made sand-glass gems a desirable symbol, meant to emphasize the pharaoh's heavenly powers."
    Strange that anyone could have survived to have a memory of such an event.
    1. Re:1000 A-bomb sized fireball ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We all assume that there have been no advanced civilizations on Earth before our own. Maybe there was and it destroyed itself with atomic weapons.

    2. Re:1000 A-bomb sized fireball ... by JerBear0 · · Score: 1

      Well, they watched it on TV, duh. :)

      --
      Bad experience is a school that only fools keep going to.
    3. Re:1000 A-bomb sized fireball ... by Zheng+Yi+Quan · · Score: 1

      1000 A-bombs works out to 'merely' 10-100 megatons of yield. Hardly a planetbuster. No one in the vicinity would have survived, but many could have noticed the bright light on the horizon and gone to investigate.

  21. this just in: sarcophagus is solid fucking gold by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 5, Funny

    It turns out that while Tut's sarcophagus initially appeared to be ordinary gold, it is in fact solid fucking gold. "Yeah, I couldn't believe it", Dr. Packenwood said, "but when we finished running all the scientific experiments on the coffin, it turned out to be 200 lbs of solid fucking gold!"

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:this just in: sarcophagus is solid fucking gold by KJSwartz · · Score: 1

      That means the Egyptians invented Gold Foil! 200lbs isn't much if its solid gold

    2. Re:this just in: sarcophagus is solid fucking gold by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

      Funny you should mention foil... it was solid gold, but "beaten from a heavy gold sheet".
      So they apparently took a massive piece of foil, and hammered it into itself until it was solid fucking gold!
      http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/tutcoffins .htm

      --
      stuff |
    3. Re:this just in: sarcophagus is solid fucking gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      200lb?

      Density of gold is 19.3g/cc, so 200lb is 4700cc of gold.

      Even at 2mm thick that'd only be 25sq ft - it'd have zero structural strength and still barely be enough to make a top and bottom even if it was super tight fitting (mininally 2 x 6' x 2').

      Based on my back of a fag packet calculations, I call BS.

      Probably right about it being proclaimed solid fucking gold, though.

    4. Re:this just in: sarcophagus is solid fucking gold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it was 110.4kg (243lb) and varied in thickness from 2.5mm - 3mm.

      http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/tutcoffins .htm

      $2.45M of solid fucking gold at today's prices.

  22. Wrong! by umbrellasd · · Score: 1
    The rock would glow and vaporize and change from a boulder to a conglomeration of pebbles.
    Sure a conglomeration of pebbles would still have inertia and all that jazz, but Asimov is talking vapor, man! Small rocks still sink in water, but vapor--no way!
  23. Moldavite by jbeaupre · · Score: 1

    Sounds similar to moldvite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavite

    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  24. The Old Switcheroo by airship · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It could be that Tut's successor really didn't want to put any more valuable geegahs in his tomb, and arranged for an impressive-looking but cheap amulet to save costs. Or, even more likely, a preist or other worker involved in Tut's burial preparations took it upon himself to replace the valuable gem with yellow glass, knowing it wouldn't be noticed among all the other bright, shiny things. Since the evidence was buried beneath the sands, this might just be an argument for one of the earliest 'perfect' crimes.

    --
    Serving your airship needs since 1995.
    1. Re:The Old Switcheroo by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, ya know that Ra and Seth and their buddies can see what you're doing, right? And if you watched your Stargate, you know just how pissed they can be when you double cross them.

      I kinda doubt that in those times people would've dared to double cross their Gods (and, after all, the Pharao was one). Baaaaaad Karma.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:The Old Switcheroo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, I seriously doubt all of them fell for it. I mean, it's one thing to have a personality cult but quite another to get everyone to buy it. I may be wrong, but Egyptian history is rife with double corssings and political assassinations, is it not? I doubt everyone believed the hype. All it would take is a small group of nonbelievers to set it up. The Grandparent Poster might be on to something. And, it sounds like a really cool idea. Nefertity's 11.

      -posting AC as I don't have an account, but wanted to chime in. Apologies if I have offended anyone. :P

  25. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by muridae · · Score: 1

    Metals. Gold, silver, titanium, maybe even gallium or iridium alloys. The shiny stuff that we can't, as of yet, easily make out of aluminium, charcoal, and air.

  26. Oh boy, i cant believe such crap : by unity100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I cant believe how scientists create complete scenarios with details for things that happened aeons ago and they do not have even the little of sufficient evidence to justify sufficient crap :

    Scientists now think a meteorite much larger than the Tunguska event fell from the sky and exploded over the Sahara in prehistoric times. The tremendous heat of the 1000 A-bomb sized fireball melted large chunks of desert sand into perfect glass. The memory of such an apocalyptic event may have made sand-glass gems a desirable symbol, meant to emphasize the pharaoh's heavenly powers.

    And then the fish were living in trees, and people had 3 legs. Ah, the meteorite brought to you by courtesy of benign aliens.

    1. Re:Oh boy, i cant believe such crap : by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Don't confuse science journalism with science. Not that this is really science anyway, it's a combination of archeology and history.

      Archeologists take the artefacts, documents and physical evidence they find and tie it together into theories. That's what they do.

    2. Re:Oh boy, i cant believe such crap : by unity100 · · Score: 1

      Well science is no different than its journalism anyway. On some dig site they find 50-60 similar pottery, and they immediately conclude that particular pottery and design was too common in that civilization.

    3. Re:Oh boy, i cant believe such crap : by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      What a crazy statement. With a vague, unreferenced example to back it up.

    4. Re:Oh boy, i cant believe such crap : by xtieburn · · Score: 1

      Errr they had more or less conclusive proof that it was a meteorite strike from the substances they found there. (In particular Osmium)
      The only problem was lack of crater and that is perfectly explained by midair explosions and the way they work, which was predicted then confirmed by the jupiter impact.

      Quite a bit of evidence and everything fits.

  27. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by tinkerghost · · Score: 3, Informative

    Remember though, Kay Jewelers sells only Created gemstones not synthetic ones.
    Yes I was actually told this looking for a Vday present.

  28. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

    They'll probably wear Duke Nukem Forever CD's around their necks. There will even be a single DVD version called "The Heart of the Nukem".

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  29. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by crabpeople · · Score: 1

    "I wonder what jewelry will be like when our physical scarcity matches our current digital scarcity"

    Heres hoping its the encased souls of my enemies!

    --
    I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
  30. Headline makes no sense by chepner · · Score: 1

    The piece of glass is brighter than a 1000 suns? Oh wait, no, there might have been a huge explosion that was that bright.

    Are headlines just randomly chosen strings of words now?

    1. Re:Headline makes no sense by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      Are headlines just randomly chosen strings of words now?
      Bugrit, millennium hand an' shrimp
      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    2. Re:Headline makes no sense by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      Just my guess, but I'd say that the gem was called that, and has now been exposed as yellow glass.

      Apparently the level 46 archaeologist identified his possessions when Tut's curse hit him.

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
  31. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

    Hmm... a bracelet made of Rearden metal.

  32. A thought on why pre-civilization... by Creepy · · Score: 1

    Although the desert itself is millions of years old, between 8000 and 2500BC (end of last ice age until the final retreat of the monsoons) the Sahara area was very fertile, which is what led to civilizations forming there. Such an air burst would have had to happen probably around 10000 - 11000 BC or earlier, and was likely found because the area was mostly grasslands, not desert. It's possible it happened between 2500BC and 1300BC (around when Tutankhamen died), but such an event likely would be documented since writing was common by then in that region.

  33. pearls by MrFebtober · · Score: 1

    With water pollution destined to become a continuing problem, water quality-sensitive organisms like clams and oysters may become more scarce in the future, making pearls more rare. Add into this that there are few non-aesthetic uses for pearls (that i'm aware of, anyway), which means there isn't much drive for commercial synthetic manufacture. Invest in pearls!!

    1. Re:pearls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that's what my gf meant when she said she wanted a pearl necklace from a Chinese guy!

      Whew! I was worried there for a moment...

  34. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    My guess would be that the process of making whatever could be made in abundance be patented to create an artificial shortage so the price stays up.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  35. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by ArmyOfFun · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Man-made gems can be more ethical as well since they don't finance activities which further human suffering. See also conflict diamonds.

  36. This is a really lame con by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    "Hi, I'm a famous researcher, can I see that ancient, impossibly valuable gem for a second?"
    "Thanks, let me put it into my closed 'examination device'."
    (Waits a moment)
    "Ok, it's done." Hands chunk of yellow glass back to curator, "Yeah, it was just glass all along. Funny, huh?"

    Walks quickly away with 'examination device', whistling happily.

    My expectation is that this fellow will probably also find that the Hope Diamond, the British Crown Jewels, and pretty much any other gem he examines to have been glass all along. AMAZING!

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:This is a really lame con by SpinyNorman · · Score: 1

      Well, considing that the guy is specifically a mineralogist, and you're apparently completely baffled as to how one might test it, I'll give him the nod. Hardness (Moh amber=2-2.5, glass=5-6) or refraction index (amber=1.517, glass=1.546) would be two ways for starters. For that matter, even the average high school science student would know that you could just rub it - amber becomes statically charged and will then attract small bits of paper.

    2. Re:This is a really lame con by Drakai · · Score: 2, Informative

      LOL, I seriously doubt they allowed a hardness test to be done on the gem. It requires indentations be made and then measured, unless I am mistaken. And while the latest greatest tools might make very small indents the risk would seem to great for a treasure of King Tut. On the other hand, the refraction index and the static charge are more believable tests.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_scale

      Often scientific curiousity takes a backseat to preservation, as well it should.

    3. Re:This is a really lame con by kirkjobsluder · · Score: 1

      Or more likely, a Raman spectometer which identifies substances using properties of scattered laser light.

  37. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aluminum used to be an extremely rare and precious metal before they figured out how to extract the ore cheaply and efficiently.

  38. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's actually a technical difference between the two. It's a teeny tiny technical difference, but it's a difference.

  39. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by pla · · Score: 5, Funny

    Man-made gems can be more ethical as well since they don't finance activities which further human suffering.

    I see we have incompatible opinions on marriage... ;-)

  40. what? by way2trivial · · Score: 2, Insightful

    throw a 10 pound bowling ball off the empire state building
    throw 20 pounds of BB's off the empire state building..

    same effect? I don't think so.

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:what? by Phanatic1a · · Score: 1

      How was this marked insightful? The terminal velocity of BBs in the lower atmosphere is considerably short of the typical 17 kilometer-per-second relative velocity of an earth-crossing meteor.

  41. another pieces of the puzzel by Eion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Keep an open mind... Some new information (Esoteric and academically/Scientific), I recently saw spoke about ancient civilizations, +10 000 years and more (example, Lumeria and Atlantis, to name only two.) (To take a part), from a very long and complicated history/story The ancients had wars with very powerful nuclear weapons which resulted in to creation of all known desserts. Egypt was very important had first pyramid.(the one with no markings) (This is important as it was always fought over repeated blast, otherwise there would not have been sand to make the glass) Egyptians had long and integrated history with the civilization from Atlantis. So when I read this story I was pleasantly surprised that we have evidence about something that happened a very long time ago preserved with the pharaoh. 800 000 years, no problem... Ancient Civilizations 180 000 million to beginning of last ice age. Not going to give you the whole story go on do your own research and make up you own minds

    1. Re:another pieces of the puzzel by jdigriz · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't be ridiculous, the Ancients had much more powerful weapons than mere nukes thanks to their mastery of Zero Point Module technology. We know this because we've seen Goa'uld mothership shields take Naquita-boosted nukes with no damage, while Ancient drones cut right through them like butter.

      Any society that can create artificial stable wormholes can do much better than nuclear weapons.

      =p

    2. Re:another pieces of the puzzel by Max+Threshold · · Score: 1
      "The ancients had wars with very powerful nuclear weapons which resulted in to creation of all known desserts."

      Even pie?

    3. Re:another pieces of the puzzel by nonlnear · · Score: 2, Funny

      Oh don't be ridiculous. The Goa'uld and "stargate" are pure fiction. If you don't stop mocking Eion for trying to bring some enlightenment to the history "establishment", Xenu will come and nuke you over a volcano.

      --
      argumentum ad fallacium: Fallacy of defining a fallacy which allows one to dismiss the argument in question.
    4. Re:another pieces of the puzzel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lumeria

      LOL. You mean "Lemuria", which is a tall tale invented by sailors on the Indian Ocean. Sort of like Paul Bunyan in the U.S.A. The sailors used to laugh at gullible westerners who believed them. The westerners bought it because it reminded them of Atlantis, which is two-thirds tall tale and one-third vague historical hearsay.

    5. Re:another pieces of the puzzel by bnenning · · Score: 1

      Yes, and also Twinkies, which were created for the primary purpose of surviving nuclear war.

      --
      How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
    6. Re:another pieces of the puzzel by Eion · · Score: 1

      True... Also look up Easter Island (Those big stone statues) Also on pacific Islands roads leading to the ocean and appearing on other Island a thousand miles away, in a straight line. City underwater discovered off Japan. As well as that old map from Ural or the one off the Atlantic Ocean with Islands of Antarctica modern man only discovered those recently (under ice) and maybe it wasn't nuclear weapons buy high energy weapons, who knows

  42. There is a problem though ... by vlad_petric · · Score: 0

    If it's older than the earliest Egyptian civilization (around 3000BCE), well ... Sahara wasn't a desert at the time: Sahara.

    --

    The Raven

    1. Re:There is a problem though ... by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 2, Informative
      From the article:

      The Sahara is currently as dry as it was about 13,000 years ago.

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  43. Gives new meaning.... by Albigg · · Score: 1

    to bling bling

  44. I for one welcome our Gemological Overlords! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NT ;)

  45. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by budgenator · · Score: 2, Informative

    Aluminum is very common, but it's always found as a salt or oxide, originaly to smelt alluminum they mixed AlO with sodium metal and heated it until the sodium reduced the AlO to pure AL + NaO; this was a very dangerous and expensive reaction, which is why aluminum was very expensive, worth its weight in gold and rare. The modern method uses electric arc furnaces and electrity to cheap to measure, they just melt the baxite ore and the electricity electrolyses the ore into metal.

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  46. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

    What about those of us wishing to buy diamonds to express our fake love?

    Synthetic or Manufactured diamonds would fill that market niche very nicely.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  47. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Mattintosh · · Score: 1

    How will we adapt to such abundance?

    With violence.

    You don't expect our future corporate masters to go quietly into the night, do you? They'll get their governmental thugs to enforce their right to profit, and failing that, they'll build their own "security forces" to ensure the safety of their business models.

  48. Sand People by darthservo · · Score: 1

    Those darn sand people...always travelling in single file.

    --

    Prove it.

  49. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you suggesting there's something wrong with that?

  50. Titanium? Nah. by jd · · Score: 1
    Processes are being developed that could make titanium as cheap as aluminium. It's a very common metal, just very hard to extract at the moment. Gold - maybe, although it has lost a lot of value over the past few centuries and shows no real signs of improving in value.


    Now, Osmium (roughly 6 times as valuable as gold) is a definite candidate for a precious metal, but couldn't be used ornamentally as it is highly toxic. Oil, as it is being consumed many millions of times faster than it is being generated, could potentially be a candidate as a precious substance.


    Some of the freakier minerals are also candidates. Probably the freakiest I know of is a blue feldspar called "Blue John" that only naturally occurs in about a mile radius of the town of Castleton in the northwest of England. Because it is highly chaotic in nature (its absolute non-uniformity is part of its uniqueness and is what people like about it) it would be hard to reproduce in a laboratory. As such, it is pretty much guaranteed to remain extremely rare.


    Speculating on future tastes, then, my guess is that non-uniformity and asymmetry will play a major role in the future.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  51. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Blisshead · · Score: 1

    Your wife buys that??

  52. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep in mind patents expire after 30 years or so. So, if they don't make their money in that amount of time, that's their problem.

    It's not like software where 30 years of downtime on an idea is insane.

  53. What the? by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

    "he memory of such an apocalyptic event may have made sand-glass gems a desirable symbol, meant to emphasize the Pharaoh's heavenly powers."
    Alright, it takes modern technology to figure out where this came from and how it was made. It also appears that anyone directly witnessing this event would be fried to a crisp.

    So then how would the Pharaoh know how significant the piece of glass was?

    --
    -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    1. Re:What the? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Tunguska impact was visible in the night sky as far away as England. A big bright flash on the horizon is bound to cause people to want to go have a look, you know.

    2. Re:What the? by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      My guess would be that these guys saw an incredibly beautiful giant mirror in the desert, and carved a hunk of glass out of the center, and then saved it for something special. It was probably used also for several other things, none of which survived for very long, since they were made out of glass.

      In fact, since glass is easy to break and can be dangerous, they may have been afraid of it, thinking it punished the unworthy.

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
  54. One word.. by novus+ordo · · Score: 5, Informative

    DeBeers. They have the world's monopoly on diamonds and are quick to buyoff any new mines and ventures to control the supply. They are shitting bricks(diamonds?) and spending millions into detecting the ever more sophisticated synthetic diamonds. With all the effort they force on you to make the "perfect" diamond it will cost more than just buying one from them.

    --
    "You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
    1. Re:One word.. by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Informative

      I read/skimmed through that & learned a few new things.

      I guess man-made diamonds aren't exactly perfect.

      The (soon to be overcome) stumbling block is that synthetics have a mix of 8 (which is normal) and 4 (which is not) sided internal structures.

      Because of the 4-sided structures, synthetic diamonds are UV reactive under "very intense short-wave ultraviolet" and will phosphoresce for a bit in the dark.

      Anyways, I still dispute your assertion that the search for the perfect man-made diamond will cause synthetics to cost more than natural diamonds. Most people just won't care. People who, in the past, wouldn't have bought a diamond, will.

      The only people who care will be investors & rich pricks who buy the marketing fantasy. Once the perfect man-made diamond is created, the only thing that will keep up values of natural diamonds will be historical or nostalgic interest.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:One word.. by ottothecow · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "Because of the 4-sided structures, synthetic diamonds are UV reactive under "very intense short-wave ultraviolet" and will phosphoresce for a bit in the dark."

      That makes synthetic diamonds sound cooler than natural diamonds...I'd love to avoid the dirty cartels AND have a stone that phosphoresces (granted only with specific light that is probobly dangerous to skin).

      They were having a discussion on synthetic diamonds on npr today somewhere around early afternoon and it reminded me of the fantastic wired article on the topic. It's a little dated in terms of the newest cutting edge techniques (both for creation and analysis) but it is very very good.

      --
      Bottles.
    3. Re:One word.. by Fordiman · · Score: 1

      "Because of the 4-sided structures, synthetic diamonds are UV reactive under 'very intense short-wave ultraviolet' and will phosphoresce for a bit in the dark."

      In otherwords, it shimmers almost imperceptibly better than natural ones, and is otherwise indistinguishable from a 'Magnificent' white diamond, yes?

      I wonder if the synth diamond co's are busy making colored diamonds. Throwing enough copper salt into the mix would get you a quality-looking 'Emerald', same for cobalt salts for 'Sapphires'.

      --
      110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
    4. Re:One word.. by salec · · Score: 1
      synthetics have a mix of 8 (which is normal) and 4 (which is not) sided internal structures
      Actually diamond is a pure carbon crystal with 4-sided (tetrahedral, 4 equilateral triangles) structure grid, unlike other naturally occuring elementary pure carbon mineral, graphite, which has hexagonal prismatic grid (8 sides: 6 rectangles connecting two hexagons).

      Therefore, it is assumed that you made a slight permutation in your comments: for a diamond, 4 sided grid cell is normal, 8 sided grid cell is not normal, but it would be normal for graphite, cheap mineral which is likely a base material for synthetic diamond. However, it is perhaps too much to expect that all the starting graphite will be ever reconfigured to diamond in a man-made process.
    5. Re:One word.. by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      synthetics have a mix of 8 (which is normal) and 4 (which is not) sided internal structures


      Actually diamond is a pure carbon crystal with 4-sided (tetrahedral, 4 equilateral triangles) structure grid, unlike other naturally occuring elementary pure carbon mineral, graphite, which has hexagonal prismatic grid (8 sides: 6 rectangles connecting two hexagons).

      Therefore, it is assumed that you made a slight permutation in your comments: for a diamond, 4 sided grid cell is normal, 8 sided grid cell is not normal, but it would be normal for graphite, cheap mineral which is likely a base material for synthetic diamond.


      Someone is getting confused over 2-dimensional and 3-dimensional cells in elemental carbon, while someone else is unaware of the Platonic solids which have cubic symmetry.

      The commonest natural form for diamonds to take up (due to the comparatively slow growth rates of the {111} form of the diamond structure) is the octahedron, which has 8 identical sides, each an equilateral triangle. The tetrahedron (4 faces, each an equilateral triangle) is not normally found as a natural shape of diamond crystals (I can't think of an example, but I have heard of stellated octahedra being found, which in an extreme could resemble tetrahedra. Be weird though.) Octahedra have 4-fold axes of rotational symmetry that tetrahedra don't have.
      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  55. Blame Nikola Tesla by m0nstr42 · · Score: 1

    We all know that the Tunguska event was caused by Tesla's Wardenclyffe Tower, which somehow was able to channel immense amounts of energy half-way around the globe. Apparently he was able to channel energy several thousand years into the past as well, creating the prehistoric glass for the Egyptians to find. Crazy guy, that Tesla. Crazy like a fox.

  56. WHATEVER! by WillyPete · · Score: 1

    My Lite-Brite was brighter than a BILLION dead suns!

    --
    Shaw's Principle: Build a system even a fool could use, and only a fool would want to use it.
  57. What really happened was.. by Frightening · · Score: 2, Funny

    1. Italian scientist finds self alone in room with ancient amber necklace
    2. Takes wife's aniversary gift out of pocket and..
    3. Makes up BS story to tell the press
    4. Profit

    Next week we'll have a story on how Tutenkhamen's stuff was found in Venice, provoking theories that the Egyptians came from Europe and were sold out of it a la columbus & native Americans.

  58. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    There is a group of scientist near Sarasota FL who can make a flawless, gem-quality 1Ct. diamond of any color for about $200.00. It takes about a week.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  59. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Shadowlore · · Score: 1
    I agree with you. However in 200 years when synthetic pure white diamond is used commercially in very large crystals, when corundums(i.e. saphires) are used for windows, our great grandchildren will wonder about us wearing what is to them just glass. I wonder what jewelry will be like when our physical scarcity matches our current digital scarcity. How will we adapt to such abundance?


    Simple. By creating new and rare objects of jewelry. They may be difficult to create multi-color gems, gems with embeddded holograms, gems with holograms that are different for each facet, flexible gems you can use as clothes, etc..
    --
    My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
  60. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Sir+Holo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Remember though, Kay Jewelers sells only Created gemstones not synthetic ones.

    That's actually a more accurate description. A lab-grown diamond is a diamond, just as much as a mined diamond is a diamond.

  61. [OT] Your sig by achurch · · Score: 1

    Funny comments don't deserve +5

    You may already be aware of this, but if you're not that interested in reading Funny comments, you can always change the Funny reason modifier on the comment settings page to -1, -2, or even -6 if you're so inclined. There are some of us who enjoy the Funny comments as a break to an otherwise dull day; to each their own.

  62. Very cool! by DaveInAZ · · Score: 0

    I was very surprised and pleased to see this story on SlashDot. For one thing, it offers so little opportunity for MS-bashing and ranting about the superiority of *nix users that no one even tried, making this story perhaps unique in the annals of Slashdot history. ;-)

    It's also nice to see something of low-tech, cultural interest, here. However, both the author and a number of /.rs seem to be boggled by the concept of King Tut valuing a piece of glass as a jewel. A jewel is nothing but a highly valued decoration, which may or may not be made of precious or semi-precious gemstone. In this case, neither the actual material, glass, nor the supposed material, amber, happens to actually be a stone.

    And the "glass is glass" mindset seems to be near-universal, but that's like saying "music is music". In fact, there are a great many different types of glass, each with its own set of characteristics. Just a moment's thought will make this obvious to the most oblivious among us. I don't believe it's possible to be reading this without having, at some point in life, run across thermal shock resistant glass (borosilicate, one brand being Pyrex), tempered glass (as in a shattered car windshield), and "normal" plate glass. And, it may not have been obvious, but the coiled glass tubes in any stereotypical mad scientist's lab are yet another type.

    These all have different chemical characteristics which make them as recognizably different, given the knowledge, as Bach from Bantu Tribal Drumming. The article dimurdoch linked to does a pretty good job of explaining this, but that reply is probably buried too deep for most people to see it. The meteorite explosion referred to is not supposition or theory; it's well-documented, though poorly known, fact and it provides about the only logical explanation for the chemical composition of this piece of glass.

    As for Tut valuing it, yes, the Egyptians of 1300 BC were capable of making glass, but not glass like this! For one thing, the saying "Clear as glass" would have puzzled the heck out of any Egyptian of the period, if you could have translated it into ancient Egyptian for them. Ancient glass was not clear. Think porcelain, not windowpane. Centuries would pass before the glassmaking process was refined enough to produce clear glass by anything other than accident. What's the common, defining characteristic of all of the most precious stones, today? Clarity; they're all crystalline. There are other stones that are just as brightly colored that aren't anywhere near as valuable because they're opaque. You don't get that lovely glow that light passing through a gem produces. This glass isn't clear, by any means, but it's the next best thing; it's translucent, as are virtually all known gems of the period. In fact, most "gems" of the time were opaque stones we now consider semi-precious at best, such as lapis and carnelian. But, this piece of glass would have glowed a very royal gold.

    Add in the fact that this piece of glass came from 1000 miles away at a time when most people lived their entire lives within 5 miles of their birthplace. Then consider the strange tales that must have accompanied this shard, of an inexplicable (at the time) sea of such glass chunks, the remnants of the Kebira crater impact.

    Finally, think about what a truly odd material this was. It looks like the lightest colored amber, but is obviously not amber. It feels like glass, but is, at a guess, 10-15 times harder than the glass they knew how to make. (Tempered glass is about 8 times harder than plate glass.) Had they tried, they probably couldn't have produced enough heat to melt this glass. It certainly wouldn't have melted at anything close to the melting point of their glass. If they had tried, failed, and immediately dropped it, still glowing hot, into the coldest water they could find, it would not have exploded like their

  63. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Trogre · · Score: 1

    They'll probably wear copper vials of crude oil around their necks.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  64. Smaller shot does less damage by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

    You got it right. Finer division of the projectile mass reduces penetration and overall damage.

    I know a guy who tried to kill himself with a shotgun blast in the mouth directed upward toward the back of the palate. I'm not sure about the gauge, but his x-rays show a remarkable galaxy of fine birdshot still lodged throughout his sinuses and lower skull, so I guess it was likely a large shell. There's also a lot of metal reconstructive mesh in there. The blast caused a fair amount of disfigurement as it rebounded foreward out of his face, but overall he's remarkably physically healthy. If it had been buckshot or a solid shell instead of birdshot, he would definitely be dead.

    --
    "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  65. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by trawg · · Score: 1

    I'm hoping that after 200 years, humanity will have lost a bit of its obsession with spending vast amounts of money on pretty pieces of rock and will have moved onto doing something worth while.

  66. Don't answer by riker1384 · · Score: 0

    Sorry to go offtopic, but where did you buy your synthetic diamond?

    Don't answer, De Beers will have the dealer dead within a week.

  67. This is an identify scroll. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    What would you like to identify first?

    w: a yellowish-brown gem ...

    w: an uncursed worthless piece of yellowish-brown glass

    1. Re:This is an identify scroll. by rodac · · Score: 1

      Thats a waste of a perfectly good scroll of identify.

      You identify glass by engraving or putting in a chest and kicking it. Save the scroll for the gems that are NOT glass.

  68. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    30 years downtime is today in pretty much every business insanity.

    30 years back means 1976. Think back and ponder what technology has come into existance since then. VHS would come out of patent this year. And it is de facto pointless that it does, since the format is completely outdated by now. If it wasn't for the format war, JVC would have had the monopoly on video cassettes for the entire time of their existance.

    Development happens so fast that technology from 30 years ago is outdated by every standard. And that time frame is getting smaller and smaller.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  69. MOD PARENT UP +5, INSIGHTFUL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, it appears there were 5 bachelors with mod points that read your post...

    Had they been married, they would have selected the "Insightful" option.

  70. Someone wake up and smell the humour ... please!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The actual gem was replaced with a piece of yellow glass by grave robbers who did a very good job of concealing their tracks.

    Moderation +5
    80% Insightful
    20% Funny

    Four mods found the parent comment insightful, and only one found it funny!!?? Worse, the post actually got several serious replies refuting it!

    I mean, I know that /.ers aren't the most intelligent species on the planet, but honestly! I'm seriously scared by this ...
  71. Yesterday's BBC is today's /. by solitas · · Score: 1
    --
    "It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)
  72. Oh please we all know it was a lightsaber crystal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Jeez it was a long time ago.....

  73. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by scottv67 · · Score: 1

    I'm hoping that after 200 years, humanity will have lost a bit of its obsession with spending vast amounts of money on pretty pieces of rock and will have moved onto doing something worth while.

    Those "pretty pieces of rock" are often associated with the pursuit of the fairer sex. According to Inigo Montoya, "You could not ask for a more noble cause than that." :^)

  74. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by masterzora · · Score: 1
    This sounds like something ripped straight out of Jennifer Government. Okay, slightly changed, not ripped straight, but still. Not saying that's where you got it from given that it's a highly likely scenario, but I am saying that you should read it if you haven't.

    You can read the first chapter for free from Max Barry's website, which is exactly where you'll see this.

    --
    Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
  75. It's also about art. by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

    Jewelry is more than the sum of it's matter. People seem for forget artwork plays a huge part in it! Think about it for a moment. Clay in its raw form is almost worthless. However, you can shape and fire it into pottery.

    More to the point. It's not just matter and energy that's worth something, but rather its application of them.

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  76. Saw this on BBC's Horizon last night by souter · · Score: 1

    To summarise the gist of their content:
    1) the glass was the result of a single event because of the distribution of large quantities of glass (100s of thousands of tons) formed at the same time in small area
    2) the event was likely astronomic because analsysis of zircon crystals withni the glass indicated a temperature of 180000K degrees ( cf. lava at c. 100000k )
    3) the absence of a crater matching the glass distribution was not conclusive (there has been significant water flows in the Sahara since the event, so the glass could conceivably have been transported from the area...
    4) ... but similarities with Tunguska, plus simulations which subsequently matched Shoemaker-Levy's Jupiter impact suggested that the airburst of a low density metorite/comet would not only account for the glass formation, but was statistically probable.

    The program was a bit sensationalist, but the references can be googled from TFA.

  77. Nobody brought up pre-pleistocene civilization yet by smartalix · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised nobody brought up the theory that this is a nuclear weapons test site from an ancient civilization! The educated guesses all say "1,000's of A-bombs". Don't forget that Trinity was "only" about 10-15 kilotons. A thermonuclear bomb can generate upwards of 50 MEGAtons, well over 2 orders of magnitude of energy. This is old news. The glass has been known for centuries under the name Libyan Desert Glass . I have a chunk I bought on eBay over a year ago. But back to topic, books written in ancient Sanskrit describe bombs as powerful as the sun, and there are unexplained areas of radioactivity such as the one in Rajasthan, India. Why couldn't Libyan glass be from an ancient thermonuclear bomb test site?

    --
    Read a preview of my novel CYBERCHILD at www.smartalix.com/cyberchild
  78. Seen it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was the subject of horizon on bbc2 last night.

    He didn't find out is was glass by accident! He had a hunch and booked time for himself and his team to test it.

    The metorite theory was confirmed by finding degraded zircon plus other high tempreature/pressure indicators in the glass. They concluded that, like tunguska, there was no significant impact crater due to the object exploding in the atmosphere. The resulting fireball and small crater (too small to survive) created the glass.

    The area was not desert back then. The glass formed out of limestone and was broken up and distributed by water.

  79. it has to do with surface area by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    if a perfectlty square rock, 10ft to a side, is thrown into the atmosphere from outer space,
      it presents a total of 600 sq ft of surface area for the atmosphere to burn away due to abalative effect...

    if 1000 square rocks, thrown into the atmosphere, are presenting 6000 sq ft of surface area, the abalative effect is far greater.

    note, both rocks have 1000 CF of volume.

    if you blow up the asteroid, the effects are reduced, even if 100% of the original material enters the atmosphere.

    same as the BB's and bowling ball...

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  80. Aren't you the sane one!? by supercrisp · · Score: 1

    Been reading your Von Daniken or whatever? Here just for kicks, to help you out of your pit of ignorence. Atlantis is mentioned in one source originally, Plato's Timaeus, to provide a hypothetical to measure against the Republic. The guy who brings up Atlantis mentions it as a story his granddaddy told him on the equivalent of April Fool's Day. Look, mystical bullshit is fun to read, but it's still bullshit. Real history mystery is more interesting. Like, the mystery for example, of why so many miserable ignernt fucks, oops, folks, over the centuries have wanted to believe in a place like Atlantis. Go learn something worth learning.

  81. Re:I *prefer* man-made gems by Mattintosh · · Score: 1

    While I have played the nationstates.net game, I have not read Jennifer Government, and that's not where I got the notion from.

    Controlling the economy is of utmost importance to everyone. The rich want to stay rich and in power and the poor want to get rich and take power. You can't have power without money. (Money is war in convenient quantified-token form, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.) So when someone decimates the economy of scarce items, whoever is in control and striving for control loses a HUGE investment of time and effort, as well as their entire goal of control. It's only logical to assume that the losers will strike out violently in this scenario.

    Of course, they can't win. Someone with enough power (a device, a method, a support structure and organization, whatever) to destroy the economy in such a manner would be virtually untouchable. Especially when they use that power for philanthropy and get a power-base of epic proportions. At that point, it turns into an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" situation for the formerly power-hungry control freaks.