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OpenOffice Gets a Toe-Hold in The Netherlands
ChristW writes "Several sources in The Netherlands report that the city of Groningen will invest 160.000 euros yearly to switch its 3650 computers to OpenOffice. They are saving 330.000 euros per year by making this switch. The other 170.000 euros will be saved up to use for new Microsoft Office licences if it becomes necessary to renew them. The city plans to renew software every 5 years, as opposed to Microsoft, who 'forces' an upgrade cycle of 3 years. Switching from Windows to Linux is not seen as an option at this point in time, so those licenses will be renewed."
I've always found OpenOffice to be a fairly good alternative to the Microsoft Office Suite. The biggest problem I've run into with it is the fact that OO 1 cannot open documents that were saved in OO 2 format. This was originally an issue here at my university because they took quite a while to migrate to OO 2. All the documents I tried transfering one day to print off in the labs had to be converted back to a format that would open on OO 1, which was a PITA to run on several dozen documents.
As for compatability with Office Documents, I've had some problems when the documents have strange formatting, but it seems to only occur when you try to print out the documents.
I think I speak for every user on Slashdot when I state that I don't care how shitty OpenOffice.org is, as long as it's not made by Microsoft.
'OpenOffice Gets a Toe-Hold in The Netherlands'
Its better than getting toed in the never reqions.
Why are they saving for new Microsoft Office licences while users get familiar with Open Office ?
Unless their migration process takes longer than three years...
Dutch people care very little about buzzwords and corporate promises.
If something is cheaper and does the same thing our cultural cheapness kicks in and ditches the old crap.
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
Open office might actually be the first really usable alternative to the whole windows schema in the cooperate world, right now Thunderbird, Linux, and Firefox (along with big open source themed software) aren't quite compatible with the features that are used all to often in the cooperate world where plugins are developed only for MS products,
With open office there aren't to many critical plugins that are required for every day use in the office (atleast not where I am from) so it might be the first Open Source product do to its ability to save documents and open them in the MS formats that really transitions well
plus being free and until recently without even a whisper of a virus an excellent alternative to the all powerful (and always needed it seems) MS office suite. Now if the gimp could match photoshop in ease of use we might be there
Did someone say cake?
just keep your finger in the dyke.
Where were you when the voynix came?
Meanwhile, Paris may put their deployment on hold because the French Ministry of Defense says it falls short in the area of security. Specifically they can get malicious macro code to execute with no user warning. Microsoft Office, on the other hand, annoys you at every chance that a macro will run. Fortunately the lab is actually working with OpenOffice.org to have the issues resolved.
Developers: We can use your help.
About 3 years ago, at work (a Dutch semi-government company) we decided to switch from MS Office to OpenOffice.
Version 1.0.1 was installed on all workstations (before, only part of the workstations had MS Office because it was too expensive).
It was used for about a year, but there were continuing complaints from people who "knew how to work with MS Office and had no time to learn OpenOffice".
Those were often higher-paid employees and external consultants working in the company, and when their claims about lost hours were really true, one could argue that no money was ever saved by switching.
It was decided to go back to MS Office and buy extra licenses for the remainder of the systems.
OpenOffice is still installed, and sometimes it is useful (and used) for things like converting to PDF or repairing documents that make MS Office crash, but it no longer is the generally used package.
This clearly shows the effectiviness of "student licenses" and other pricing schemes: by making sure that the average person "knows how to use Office" (I type it in quotes because I believe the average knowledge of Office features is only skin-deep, maybe "familiar with" is a better description) you can frustrate any attempt to switch to other packages.
I guess the Groningen people will also meet this obstacle.
OpenOffice can be used as a great converter.
For instance, by creating the appropriate routines with your favorite 3G language, one can generate/manipulate existing OpenOffice documents (a set of XML files archived in common ZIP format) to generate reports. Then, using the UNO API, create a simple application that controls an OpenOffice process running in the background, feed it with the manipulated documents and tell it to save in the desired format (MS Word, MS Excel, PDF, depending on the type of report). Totally custom, a developer's dream.
Sure, it still needs a bit of improvement. Namely concerning CPU and memory usage, but try to do the above using M$ Products...
she won't allow that.
See, the dutch are switching because they're frugal.
I, OTOH, do it because it's easy to get. I own a few coppies of office, but finding the cd's in my closet would probably take longer than downloading the 200megs or whatever OO.o is.
OO.o has worked just fine for all of my school needs and I don't intend to buy any more coppies of office.
Nathan Friedly
There impossible to sea until
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
Maybe I missed it, but I don't see how Microsoft can "force" someone to upgrade after three years. Just because they come out with a new version doesn't mean you have to run out and buy it. If you only want to buy every five years, just buy every five years and ignore the release cycle. Is there something I'm missing?
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Why am I reminded of those articles that seem to come up every year in the Netherlands about somebody who got trampled by bargain hunting shoppers?
Could somebody please post english translations of the articles? Thanks.
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are... it is our choices.
It was used for about a year, but there were continuing complaints from people who "knew how to work with MS Office and had no time to learn OpenOffice".
Those were often higher-paid employees and external consultants working in the company, and when their claims about lost hours were really true, one could argue that no money was ever saved by switching.
The ugly truth of a monopoly, yes. Specifically requiring OpenOffice knowledge would eliminate that problem, and especially with regards to consultants, it is very possible to do so. Otherwise, negotiate a lower fee, to make up for the additional time and reduced quality of whatever documentation they deliver in the system they claim to be unfamiliar with.
I have no mercy for consultants. Make it their problem, not yours.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Hey, I'm from the Netherlands -- yes, you may touch me...
It was used for about a year, but there were continuing complaints from people who "knew how to work with MS Office and had no time to learn OpenOffice".
Those were often higher-paid employees and external consultants working in the company, and when their claims about lost hours were really true, one could argue that no money was ever saved by switching.
It will be interesting how they rationalize Office 12's new interface (the Ribbon paradigm).
My God, it's Full of Source!
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Most likely they will include a "look how easy it is to use the new office" video with each version of Office 12 like they did with Windows 95... or at least to OEMs, I remember we got them when we bought the OEM 5 packs of 95 and 98 back then.
:)
We (family) used to run a net cafe that sold and fixed computers on the side, and I do remember that CD being rather nice introducing people to windows, it even created a kind of sandboxed desktop where the user could do whatever they wanted while it ran and then reverted it back to where it was before using it. We had people renting the computers just to use that CD back then...
No idea if they have done anything like that with office, though... I really stopped using office after college, and OO is enough for the very little word processing I do these days (mostle a letter here and there).
There isn't a high school, inner city public library, community college, university, labor union, or social services program within one hundred miles that doesn't offer courses in MS Office. Local employers continue to ssek out and hire workers trained in Office and with a huge, experienced, labor pool on which to draw, they have little incentive to switch.
Especially since their URL starts with /Exe/ZyNET.exe/00000N0J.txt?Z....
I suspect I speak for more than a few users on Slashdot when I state that I don't care how cheap OpenOffice is, as long as it's nowhere near as good as MS Office.
We've had this discussion a thousand times under past articles, and there are a few things that ring true every time. One is that the entirely objective list of bugs in OpenOffice is not trivial, and likewise for major functionality gaps compared to the Microsoft incumbent. Another is that the cost of switch is not zero, because of the retraining issues, and the lower efficiency in using a program with poor usability and help features.
Why would you think you speak for every Slashdot user when you advocate using an inferior piece of software, just because it's cheap or from someone other than Microsoft?
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
I find that a little odd. I've been using Office quite extensively since the olden days and switching to OpenOffice 2 was pretty much a trivial task. OpenOffice does a great job at cloning much of the interface and functionality of MS Office, and Microsoft hasn't really made any significant changes to its Office interface for many years (with the exception of the new Ribbon stuff coming along).
It sounds like, to me, that those employees were/are simply lazy.
"Most likely they will include a "look how easy it is to use the new office" video with each version of Office 12"
And that is why half the savings will be spent on retraining the users.
My response would be; "So you're saying you only have the mental capacity to handle one word processor? Says a lot about the quality of work I can expect from you, doesn't it?"
Heh, a good shameing can do wonders.
The U.S. really needs an English to Wisdom dictionary.
The municipality of Groningen is going to be the first major municipality in the Netherlands to use OpenOffice. This way 330.000 euros will be saved on licencing costs. The council of Groningen agreed yesterdayevening to let the contract with Microsoft for Microsoft Office expire.
The contract with Microsoft for the operatingsystem Windows will be renewed. Groningen counts about 181.000 inhabitants and the municipality itself has about 3650 pc's internally. In Groningen people started investigating the possibilities of using Open Standards and Open Source Software after requests from the council. The reason of this investigation was that they wanted to break the monopoly of large software suppliers and that they didn't want to depend on them for changes to their software.
No switch to Linux
OpenOffice will be installed under Windows in Groningen. From the investigation it became clear that a total switch to an Open platform like Linux currently isn't a viable choice. The municipality does say to strive that workstations in Groningen will run as much software as possible that runs on both Windows and Linux. At a later point in time the switch to Linux would then be easier.
Because they want to avoid the risk of having to ask for general municipality funds if the switch backfires and they want to switch back to Microsoft Office, a large portion (170.000 euros) of the funds will be saved in a "Microsoftlicences" account.
The remainder of the funds (78.450 euros) will be used to form a migrationteam that will start with the preperations of switching to operating-system independent workstations.
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This clearly shows the effectiviness of "student licenses" and other pricing schemes
What it clearly shows is the ineffectiveness of the training those people received. We need to move away from teaching "Microsoft Word 101" and teach people how to use programs in a general sense. Throw them in an environment that randomizes the experience. One day they're using WordPerfect in Windows, the next day, Word in OSX, the next day AbiWord in Linux. By the time they finish the class, it shouldn't matter what platform they're on or what applications are available. They should be able to sit down and type a letter without saying, "Where's the Word icon. In the class, it was the third one down on the left. I don't see it here."
I fully agree with that. It also has always been my standpoint in this matter.
I had no say in the original decision to go for OpenOffice, and I believed it was a bold move.
The general state of "computer education for the end-user" is quite sad. Indeed, focus is so much on a single environment that people think they know a lot, while in fact they only learned a bag of tricks.
However, after seeing how common this problem was in our organization, I think anyone trying to make this switch will be in for quite a rough time.
july 20th 2006, 14:04 - The city of Groningen wednesday agreed to a proposal to switch from Microsoft Office to the free OpenOffice suite.
by not renewing the current contract with Microsoft for the use of Office, the city safes 330.000 euro a year. This is based on licences for the 3650 PCs the city was using three years ago when the contract was signed.
Groningen wants to gradually move to open-sourcesoftware. The contract with Microsoft for the use of Windows will be renewed, because a switch to Linux would "not yet be opportune", according to the counsil.
The city of Groningen will use the money that was safed by not renewing the Office contract for the creation of a 'transition-team' that will concern itself with the transition to Openoffice.org and other open-sourcesoftware. Main task for this team is the preparation for a operating system independent workspace.
160.000 euro a year is freed for the transition, the other 170.000 euro the city saves yearly will be used to create a fund in case the city wishes to acquire the Microsoft licences after all.
Victory
According to Valentijn Sessink of Openoffice.nl, supplier of open-sourcesoftware, spending the money safed in the migration is important. "I feel the biggest victory is that the money that is safed will indeed be used to make the transition to open-sourcesoftware", says Sessink.
Sessink believes the renewal of the Windows-contract might not have been necessary. "Practically al ne PCs you buy have Windows pre-installed. Why would you pay so much money for a contract with Microsoft?"
"Prolonging a licenseagreement yields very little strategically. The treacherous part is that the "software-assurance" limits your freedom of choice of software to run on your PC" states Sessink to Webwereld.
also, the city of Groningen has a 5-year replacement cycle for is software, while Microsoft has a 3-year cycle for Office. This also makes the agreement inefficient.
The city of Groningen will still be able to use the current version of Office it is using, even after the contract ends. The contract with Microsoft, the software-assurance, added user support and the right to run new versions of Office. Ending the contract therefore has no influence on already purchased versions. The city of Groningen therefore has plenty of time to prepare for the switch to Openoffice.org.
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It will be interesting how they rationalize Office 12's new interface (the Ribbon paradigm).
They don't. Thats just a regular upgrade and support is about to end bla bla...
Now switching to Open-Office is major, i mean, it's not like the Open, Save and other much used functions are simply in the same place in a totally different application.
It's all mindset, habit and above all fear of change.
it's not like the Open, Save and other much used functions are simply in the same place in a totally different application. :) Well thank God the trained monkeys won't get confused by something different in their title bar. I guess it's true what they say about the value of a college degree these days.
My God, it's Full of Source!
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