Babylon 5 Coming Back?

SaturnTim writes "Babylon 5 fans rejoice! It appears that our favorite space outpost is back. It will be returning soon in a series of direct-to-DVD 20min episodes, each featuring the past of one of our favorite characters."

Comments

Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

[eldavojohn]

It's interesting that this is a straight to DVD production. I'm not a huge fan of Babylon 5 but I am very interested to see what distribution method they seek.

The recent news is Warner Bros. is putting Babylon 5 on iTunes. That's right, you'll be able to purchase episodes of the sci-fi show on iTunes. Could they promote this service by releasing The Lost Tales a few weeks early on iTunes? I think they could probably garner quite a bit of money from Apple if they were willing to do that.

After all, what better fanbase for Apple to secure than the Babylon 5 tech/trek group? Old nerds with lots of money and few vices. I know some people at work that would buy a video iPod just to have copies of Babylon 5 on their person at all times.

This could probably be a television show that successfully bypasses all traditional forms of distribution which would set huge precedence for weaning the public from the glass teat.

Re:Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

[El Torico]

I know some people at work that would buy a video iPod just to have copies of Babylon 5 on their person at all times.

Wow, and I thought that my coworkers and I were nerds.

...weaning the public from the glass teat.

Yes, an "on-demand" portable plastic teat is much more convenient.

Re:Babylon 5: The Lost Tales

[morcego]

Lets remember the fact that NO Babylon 5 spinoff worked. Neither Crusade nor that one about Rangers worked. I kind of enjoyed Crusade, but the Rangers' one really sucked.

Alas, Babylon

[krell]

It won't be the same without G'Kar, one of my two favorite characters.

Re:Alas, Babylon

[Apocalypse111]

You are correct, it would not be the same without Andreas Katsulas, who died of lung cancer on Feb. 13 of this year. Similarly, the death of Richard Biggs, who played Dr. Franklin, should not go unmourned. He died of an aortic tear back in 2004.

Re:Alas, Babylon

[Billosaur]

It's the mark of the impact of a series when you mourn the passing of actors on them as if they were your family. Babylon 5 was so well constructed and intricate that the characters had real depth, and you felt like you knew them, and by way of that, the actors. I'm hoping these stories work; I know JMS won't dilute the franchise the wat Star Trek has been reduced to pitiful ruins.

Re:Alas, Babylon

[Ark]

Not that he was a major character, but Tim Choate also passed away a few years ago. Luckily he's survived by his brothers Zathras, Zathras, Zathras, and Zathras.

Re:Alas, Babylon

[dargon]

My favorite is still the Vir quote;

I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this.
*waves* Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?

Re:Alas, Babylon

[Random_Goblin]

Luckily he's survived by his brothers Zathras, Zathras, Zathras, and Zathras.

I think you're mistaken his surviving brothers are Zathras, Zathras, Zathras and Zathras.


"Zathras is used to being beast of burden to other people's needs. Very sad life. Probably have very sad death. But, at least there is symmetry."

Re:Alas, Babylon

[HTH NE1]

Babylon 5 pioneered daring and creative storytelling techniques, such as trapping two characters who hate each other in an elevator.

That would be "Convictions".

They're called bottle episodes but they're usually done for budgetary reasons. Trap the characters inside a single set (bottle them up) and play them off each other.

A benefit from saving on sets, locations, and FX is that more money can go into the scripted dialog and character development, though this is more of an example of a bottle scene or situation, and is better for it. Still, that episode has one of my favorite quotes:

"`Go be the ambassador to Babylon 5,' they say. `Will be an easy assignment.' Ah, I hate my life."
"So do I."
"Shut UP!" [zip]

But then there's also this one [wav].

Not quite 20 minutes.

[Trestran]

It won't be 20 minutes, acording to B5 creator JMS. From a usenet post by him:

No, it's closer to one-half-hour per story, so figure about 75-90 minutes per DVD, plus additional material adding up to a two-hour DVD. jms

I for one am looking forward to this tremendously. I know that all the previous B5 spin-offs have been rather anti-climatic, abortive affairs (although I haven't seen nearly all of it), but the creative freedom he is getting seems rather amazing. As opposed to, say, Crusade, that according to JMS suffered from a death by studio interference. And having seen some of the memos that were leaked, I see no reason to doubt him.

Cashing in

[alienmole]

I liked the Babylon 5 series just fine, but it had an ambitious overarching plot which did advance over time, albeit slowly and vaguely, that made it a bit more interesting than an ordinary space opera. Shows about the past of the characters sounds mainly like a way to milk the cash cow represented by the most diehard fanboys and anyone who doesn't have any, whaddayacallem, standards. It doesn't require much creative effort in terms of plot, it's just exploiting the franchise.

"Our Favorite Characters" - Your pics?

[Apocalypse111]

I'm betting that the series will be about Sheridan's actions during the Earth-Minbari war. That would provide sufficient eye-candy and war drama for a plot, while at the same time confining the characters to those of primarily human or Minbari origin, keeping G'Kar out of the picture (RIP Mr. Katsulas). Also, during this time frame, Stephen Franklin was galavanting around the galaxy learning about xenobiology, so this war setting would also keep his character out of the picture (RIP. Mr. Biggs).

Re:"Our Favorite Characters" - Your pics?

[andphi]

Without those two, it would be to paraphrase Zathras, "Not the same, not the same."

What JMS should do

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

Strazinski could still do a G'Kar story, showing the effects of G'Kar's travels around the galaxy. G'Kar himself wouldn't actually have to appear.

Re:Woot!

[v1]

It has the distinction of being possibly the best planned series of any kind in history. From what I've read, they had the entire 5 year story arc fully plotted out before they started shooting the first episode of season 1. Sure they had to wing it on a few things where there were unforseen circumstances, but for the most part it's a stunning example of what you can do when you actually planned the full 5 seasons, and managed to actually produce all five of them before someone dropped the axe and made you rush your plot to close in like, season 3 or 4.

I have the entire box set of all seasons, and I still enjoy watching it from the start. Time and time again I spot something, some subtle hint, puzzling comment, even a look from a character in reaction to something seemingly harmless, only to realize "oh .... THAT'S why he did that!!", remembering that would tie in maybe an entire season or two later as a very important plot arc. Good lord, how long did they push that "there is a hole in your mind!" before letting us in on it?

I rather doubt these new minis will be very good, as most of the time such similar minis are almost worthless, but I'll probably still watch them, if nothing else than to revisit the past. I'm sure they willl continue to backfill missing or mysterious plot elements from the original series with these new additions, and that alone should be worth the watch.

one of the best shows ever

[Anonymous Coward]

This series rocked, in its day. I'm not willing to say it was the best thing on TV ever, but i think it makes the top 5. Actions taken by characters had consequences, and fundamentally changed their relationships with other characters - not a static universe where a new episode happened every week but nothing fundamentally changed. It was a realistic world, where characters needed money to live, and there was greed, and corruption, and crime, and an underworld. There were complex characters - even the bad guys were not "one dimensional" - they had their own agendas and loyalties and were not presented as some simplistic "pure evil". Semi-decent newtonian mechanics for spaceships.

It was good stuff. And although the special effects look dated now, at the time, it was amazing to see battles with 100 separate ships on TV - that kinda thing had been reserved for the movies up until then.

Re:Woot!

[Mayhem178]

With apologies to both of you, I'm gonna have to give my vote to Firefly, even if it has no hope of ever seeing the kind of resurrection that B5 is getting.

Watching scifi for the acting...

[alienmole]

...is like reading Playboy for the articles.

If it doesn't include Claudia Christian...

[csoto]

as a "former stripper" then I'm not interested.

I just realized that I wasted a good bit of 1994+ on that show :)

Re:If it doesn't include Claudia Christian...

[Frobisher]

Claudia recently recorded a Big Finish Doctor Who audio... The Reaping with the Cybermen.

(Peter Jurasik was in "Winter For The Adept" back in 2000.)

B5 v BG

[foo fighter]

I'm sorry, but I can't watch Babylon 5 anymore.

Battlestar Galactica has raised the bar, for me, personally, so high that most other sci-fi fare looks and sounds like scrapings from the bottom of a barrel. I realize and understand that the two shows have completely different themes, styles, etc., but the differences in production values and acting quality are especially marked.

The same goes for Stargate (any version), Firefly, and Enterprise or even the new Dr. Who.

I'm not judging anyone who still likes those shows or saying I don't like them anymore. BG has just completely changed my perception of what sci-fi can and should be.

Re:B5 v BG

[Spad]

I think I must be the only person left on this planet who thinks that BSG is massively overrated. That's not to say it's not good, but I just really can't see why everyone sees it as some kind of Sci-fi messiah.

Re:B5 v BG

[JasonKiddy]

I tend to agree with you... (some) sci-fi has raised the bar. But don't go overboard on the Battlestar Galactica thing... the story and especially the script is complete arse. Acting good... production values seem excellent... cgi excellent (although far too much use of camera shake) lol

Re:B5 v BG

[ender81b]

You aren't the only one. To quote from Gregg Easterbrook (probably best known to the slashdot crowd for his 5...4...3...2..1.. goodbye columbia article: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/800 4.easterbrook-fulltext.html)

One of my problems with Battlestar Galactica is that the men and women in the show are depicted as so astonishingly across-the-board stupid, it's tempting to root for the robots. The military officers are stupid; the politicians are stupid; the civilians are stupid. In the pilot, we learn that the entire defense network of the human society could be deactivated by one single numeric code. The evil robots, called Cylons, obtain the code, transmit it, and instantly all the human society's military equipment shuts off. Planets are left defenseless as the Cylons bombard them with nuclear bombs; numerous powerful battlestars are shown hanging in space helpless, their engines and weapons shut off, as the Cylons smash them. (The Galactica escapes via plot contrivance.) Now if you were an advanced society capable of building gigantic faster-than-light outer-space battleships, would you design them so that one single numeric code renders them all totally useless at the same time? Plus the numeric code that instantly shuts off every military device in the entire human society has been entrusted to a psychologically unstable computer scientist, who accidentally gives it to the Cylons. Halfway through the first season, the computer scientist became vice-president of the survivors' government, and everyone -- including military intelligence -- is so astonishingly stupid as to never realize that since scientist was the only one who had the code, he must have been the one to give it to the Cylons.

Next, the show has premise problems that appears unsolvable. One aspect of the premise is that there are no other intelligent beings in this part of the galaxy -- just the beleaguered humans and the malevolent Cylons. This means there are no aliens to meet in various episodes, no alien societies to depict. True, it must be hard at this point to come up with new alien ideas for sci-fi. You can imagine the scriptwriters' conference: "Okay, how about they find a planet where people can only speak when the sun is out?" The other premise problem is that the Cylons are depicted as having become so powerful, Galactica cannot hope to defeat them. If the characters can't overcome the Cylons and can't meet interesting aliens, to create dramatic tension the scriptwriters are forced to have the humans fighting each other, which is what happens. Almost every episode concerns internecine fighting inside the human fleet: plots, mutinies, martial law, claims of treason, everything but people accusing each other of witchcraft. Galactica story lines have become so similar that I have trouble telling whether an episode is new or a repeat.

Re:B5 v BG

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I think I must be the only person left on this planet who thinks that BSG is massively overrated.

You're not. I agree that it's a good show, certainly one of the best sci-fi offerings of recent years, but I don't buy all the "whole new level" stuff.

I think because sci-fi was very tame, good-guys-always-winning fare for so long, some of the recent, more realistic shows like BSG have carried more weight with the viewer. This is partly because the plots are more credible and the characters can present a wider range of emotions, of course, but I reckon it's also -- in part -- simple novelty value. Of course, BSG wasn't the first to do this; indeed, Babylon 5 itself might have a fair claim on that honour.

In any case, playing with Gritty Realism(TM) is not automatically the same as acting well, and other series have had gritty characters, too. Sure, not every sci-fi actor is waiting for their Oscar, but I would put many of those in B5 up against any of the cast of the new BSG when it comes to portraying a character of substance and interest. G'Kar remains, IMHO, the deepest character of any sci-fi show, and the B5 cast as a whole was easily the equal of other good sci-fi shows like Firefly or BSG.

The thing about BSG is that, at least through series one (I'll watch series two when they bring them all out in one DVD box set instead of messing around with half-series) it was almost all pain and suffering and grief and loss. Where was the light relief, the inspirational breakthrough, the hope, the joy? I remember one scene, at the end of one episode, when a very significant number is increased by one, and that's about it.

Having a plot that involves loss and suffering may bring more credibility, but it can be just as one-dimensional as the good-guys-always-winning if not handled well: credibility is not the same as killing off major characters indiscriminately or using the threat of wiping out the whole human race as your primary plot device. Some of the most moving episodes of Babylon 5 involved tragic fates for noble characters, but none of them was sacrificed randomly; compare and contrast with what happens in Firefly/Serenity (remember to mark those spoilers if you're replying). And of course, Babylon 5 was ultimately a story of hope, while BSG to date is more a story of survival without hope.

So yes, BSG is a good series, and by TV sci-fi standards it's one of the best. But based on the first series, I think it's too negative and one-dimensional in its approach so far, and in that respect it has a lot to learn from classics like Babylon 5.

Re:B5 v BG

[PortHaven]

Enterprise - the final season improved by leaps and bounds. In fact, it became some of the most enjoyable Star Trek episodes I'd seen. I think had it not gotten cancelled it would have continued to improve. Of course, the change resulted in the hiring of several new writers and who recognized the importance of "Star Trek" canon to it's fans. And instead of constantly making divergances in the Star Trek history they started focusing on explaining the discrepancies.

Why were the Klingons in the original series different in appearance from those seen later? Set ground work and understanding for "Data". I found myself walking away saying "finally"...but then it got cancelled.

Star Trek needs to fire several quantum torpedoes into Berman & Braga and get some fresh blood in...and blood of those who respect Star Trek and aren't simply focused on the $$$

Re:B5 v BG

[Citizen of Earth]

The military officers are stupid; the politicians are stupid; the civilians are stupid.

That's called *Realism*.

obtain the code, transmit it, and instantly all the human society's military equipment shuts off.

If we compare a Battlestar to an aircraft carrier running Microsoft software, again, *Realism*.

Re:who can tell with all that makeup

[CaptainAvatar]

Actually, it's a testament to Andreas Katsulas' acting ability that this isn't true. All that latex and yet he still stole every scene he was in.

Re:I disagree

[digitaldc]

Dammit Spock, don't quote logic to me... I may be a good ole country doctor, but I know what I like...

Quite simply Doctor, I examined the comparison from all angles, and it was plainly pointless.
Logic informed me that under the circumstances, the only logical conclusion for your opinion would have to be one of confusion.
Logical decision, logically arrived at.

Re:Prepare for dissapointment

[Rethcir]

Ok.. even non-slashdotters love the Next Generation, and you know it. Stop grandstanding.

Re:who can tell with all that makeup

[Marillion]

I really hope that your comment is a troll. Andreas Katsulas is a Shakespearian actor. Few actors, past and present, are able to capitalise on the grandeur of that training as dramatically as he did. JMS should allow G'Kar to die, or more specifically, rest in the noble peace that stoic noble heroes deserve.

Babylon 5 was okay

[Bullfish]

But what I really want to see revived is Space Above and Beyond. A far superior series to almost all the series mentioned above, well ahead of its time, and killed far too soon by a dumbass Fox.

Re:Babylon 5 was okay

[shudde]

I absolutely worshipped Space A&B when I was a teenager, thought it was the best (albeit the shortest-lived) sci-fi show around. Recently I leeched a few of the episodes and found it dated, with simplistic themes and wooden acting. Characters I cared about in my youth now seem banal.

As others have posted, it's probably a reflection on some of the truly brilliant sci-fi we've had in the last few years (my two cents: Farscape, Firefly, SG, BSG).

Re:Woot!

[podperson]

It has the distinction of being possibly the best planned series of any kind in history

Science Fiction folks need to understand that there have only been a half dozen SF series worth criticizing. Babylon 5 was certainly one of the best SF series, but when you consider the number of excellent mainstream TV shows, such as Hill Street Blues (which Babylon 5, like so many ensemble shows, owes much of its structure to) it has to compete with, which were both stunningly well planned and executed, B5 pales in comparison.

Yes, B5 had a five year story arc, but when it had to be compressed into four years it suffered badly. They then cobbled together a lackluster fifth season. Better shows have developed arcs which could cope with being axed after the first year or running indefinitely. And Babylon 5's pace was glacial for much of its first three seasons.

These 20 minute shows could be good, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I doubt they started out pitching for a 20 minute direct to DVD project; so this is a TV series pitch that they couldn't sell.

Re:Prepare for dissapointment

[geminidomino]

I have to say you're wrong about that. My image isn't romanticized, it's fresh in my memory (I'll kill a weekend ever few months watching the first four seasons).

The main thing fans usually praise about B5 is the incredible story arc. Four seasons planned ahead from day 1. It's impressive. But B5 had something I find even more important, the same thing that made Firefly great before Whedon ruined it: Characters and the way they interacted.

The best example, I think any B5 fan will agree, had to be the chemistry between Andreas Katsulas(R.I.P.) (G'Kar) and Peter Jurasik(Londo). But there were very few poor characters. Walter Koenig as Bester makes you want to punch him in the mouth, but that's because he's SUPPOSED to. Ivanova's monologues on C&C were always good for a wry grin ("No boom today. Boom tommorow. ALWAYS Boom tommorow.") Maybe I'm just fanboying, but I even found Bruce Boxleitner to be an excellent choice for Sheridan.

For Babylon 5

[MaveZ]

Babylon 5, love it or hate it. After few episodes you are addicted anyways.

One episode doesnt give you any reason to be addicted, two gives you something, after three episodes you cant wait to see fourth, after fourth you find yourself thinking how PPG's really work, after fifth you have lost the count.

Think about a show that has 110 episodes + pilot, where each and every episode are somehow connected. And I dont mean only those episodes that comes in a row, for example 18,19 and 20 would be connected, but I also mean episodes 8 and 75, 53 and 106... 106 and 75... 75 to each and every episode... etc... That is why I love this show, it only gets better more you watch it.

After few episodes you can see the unavoidable faith of Babylon 5 and how the show is going to end, and that I think is the point of the story. You are given certain hints about the future, but you cant know whether it is true or not, or is it even possible.
It is your job to find out.

When the story continues, more hints are brought up, more moving parts inside machinery, more fire to the wheel. And most of all, you can see how the actions in the past had a consequence in the future (Or in the past...:).

In series finale, you will realise how wrong you were time to time, and how great journey this series was. For the last minutes you can only cry for two reasons, because it is over, or just because you want to.

Go get the DVD's, this show is definitely worth it.

Re:Woot!

[deblau]

You want better FX?? You realize that the show is over 10 years old now, right? The kind of weekly FX they did for that show blew everything else the hell out of the water, and opened the door for the kind of modern FX today that seems to have spoiled you with some sort of hindsight bias disease. Heck, that show had better weekly FX than some of the feature length movies of the day, with much a smaller budget.

As for "Comes the Inquisitor," JMS acknowledged that he had a braino. His words:

What happened is...basically...Joe is a moron.

I did my research. I called up the info on the encyclopedia, got all the dates right, and my eyes saw East End and for whatever stupid, idiotic reason, my fingers typed West instead of East, and nobody, NObody, caught it until now. I'd loop it, but alas the line is on his face, and it'd look real stupid, and the delivery is *so* perfect as it is; if we looped it, we'd destroy it.

So I content myself with the notion that it's west...of B5.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go shoot myself.

That kind of commitment is what made B5 great. Not to mention the fact that JMS essentially blogged about the show long before that word could have been invented, since there wasn't even a WWW yet. He took fan feedback from the blog, and incorporated it into the show. That's a rarity, even today. Voting people off a TV show doesn't even come close to the level of interaction JMS had with the B5 fanbase.

B5 on iTMS, cropped and cropped again

[Soong]

The iTMS versions of B5 are probably only 50% of the original show.

The DVDs were artificially made "wide screen" by chopping off the top and bottom of each frame. You can tell on "Voice of the Resistance" test pattern or the Psi Corps ad on ISN with the frame that flashes "trust the corps". Those were full screen designs for tv and are now cut off.

I watched a sample of an episode on iTMS and it looks like it's the same vertical image as the DVDs but has now been chopped off on the left and right to fit the TV/iPod screen size, where letterboxing would look stupid.

So, I'm holding onto my VHS taped-off-the-air copies of B5 until they release the original-original series.

Re:B5 on iTMS, cropped and cropped again

[jnik]

B5 was shot widescreen. The CG was rendered 4:3. I believe part of the deal was that the CG would be rerendered for the DVD's (but I'm not positive).

Warner lost the model files. Many conspiracy theories surround this.

The DVD's were made by combining the 16:9 live action footage with CG that was cropped to 16:9, then scaled vertically (to achieve full anamorphic resolution). So scenes that combine live action and CG look a bit weird.

If iTunes is 4:3, it's probably the original broadcast version, where you're missing the sides of the field in live action shots.

(This is an entirely different issue from the first Sci-fi "widescreen" reairing, where they did indeed mess up and just mat out the top and bottom of the original broadcast.)

OT :Re:I can still dream, can't I?

[MrCopilot]

As for #3, I think that may also have been in part thanks to sites like savewash.com (no link, since it's been replaced by domain squatters) that leaked info from sneak peeks and previews. Gods know, I wish I'd seen the site before the movie. (Rant about that part of the movie omitted.)

I thought it showed real balls. Good likable character eats it at the triumphant moment, Impressed me. Wouldn't have had the same impact if it had been the Doc. (my wife was wishing him dead the whole movie)

To the grandparent post Serenity was the name.

Re:Woot!

[koreth]

It has the distinction of being possibly the best planned series of any kind in history.

Well -- and I say this as the person who runs the most popular B5 fansite on the net -- that's only true if you limit yourself to American TV. Asian TV has been doing huge but limited-run serial dramas for decades, well before B5.

I remember when B5 was on the air and I mentioned the whole "story arc" thing to a Singaporean coworker. He looked at me like I was crazy: "So? Half the shows back home are like that." Since then I've watched several Chinese TV shows and I have to say he was right; not to diminish B5 in the least, but some of those shows have every bit as much foreshadowing and plot twistiness. (But usually, in the case of fantasy stories, much cheesier special effects than B5 at its worst.)

Sci-Fi That's Better

[TheZorch]

Yes, for its time B5 raised the bar on Sci-Fi the way Battlestar Galactica does now. The stories were well written, often interwoven with one another, and the characters were very complex. Even the villains are more than just "one dimensional" pure evil that needed to be destroyed (I beliece someone else also expressed this point).

What hurt shows like ST: Voyager, Enterprise and so many others is that they let the exec interfere with the creative process. Fox wanted more sex on Voyager so they brought in Seven-of-Nine, though Jeri Ryan proved that she was more than just a nice set of boobs and was actually a very good actress. Oh, and don't get me started with T'Pal on Enterprise. She was a good actress also but she was cast for the role because she was top heavy. I'm not saying sex in Sci-Fi isn't bad, but its when the focus of the show is to show off some babe in a skin tight body suit I'd rather watch the Playboy channel. I want my sci-fi shows to have depth, and I'm not alone in this. Sadly, too many media execs think they know what we want even then we tell them what we want. Case in point; the fans demanded for a series featuring Sulu as the captain of the Excellceor, but they gave everyone Enterprise because that is what the execs thought was what was best for the fans rather than listening to what the fans asked for. They're doing it again with the new Star Trek movie. Yes, they are going ahead with the Starfleet Academy things where a young Kirk meets Spock at the academy.

I also agress that Dr. Who was a great series. It is on record, with Guiness, as the longest running Sci-Fi TV series in history. Despite have an almost non-existant budget the producers of the series were still able to tell provocative stories which were sometimes totally unheard of in TV Sci-Fi. The new series does follow a similar formula though I'm disappointed a little by the fact that they dumped the serialization of the episodes.

Re:Prepare for dissapointment

[CheshireCatCO]

"the only other Sci-Fi on Tv was Star Trek: The Next Generation"

Well, if you ignore DS9, Voyager, Stargate: SG-1, Earth 2, Space: Above and Beyond, and a bunch of others that most of us have forgotten by now. In fact, TNG only overlapped B5 by what, one year?

Re:dissapointed

[SteveFoerster]

You wrote:

> To this very day if I walked outside and saw a Dalek
> or Patrick Stewart I would shit my pants

Patrick Stewart just decided never to meet you.