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Cancer Therapy with Radioactive Scorpion Venom

BostonBTS writes "Researchers from TransMolecular, Inc. have used chlorotoxin -- a component of giant yellow scorpion venom -- to target radioactive treatments for the deadly brain cancer glioma. From the article: 'In the study, 18 patients first had surgery to remove malignant gliomas, a lethal kind of brain tumor. Then doctors injected their brains with a solution of radioactive iodine and TM-601, the synthetic protein. The solution bound almost exclusively to leftover tumor cells, suggesting that it could be combined with chemotherapy to fight cancer. Furthermore, two study patients were still alive nearly three years after the treatment.' Their paper is slated for publication in the August issue of the Journal of Clinical Oncology."

115 comments

  1. with great power. .. by macadamia_harold · · Score: 4, Funny

    Researchers from TransMolecular, Inc. have used chlorotoxin -- a component of giant yellow scorpion venom -- to target radioactive treatments for the deadly brain cancer glioma.

    Just so long as they remember, "With great power comes great responsibility."

    1. Re:with great power. .. by rs79 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      "Just so long as they remember, "With great power comes great responsibility."

      Just so long as they remember how Spider Man was created...

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    2. Re:with great power. .. by Jarnin · · Score: 1

      A forecast of the next Spiderman villan? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpion_(comics)

  2. Cool by Eightyford · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well that sounds like a pretty cool movie. Is Bryan Singer directing?

    1. Re:Cool by werewolf1031 · · Score: 1
      Well that sounds like a pretty cool movie. Is Bryan Singer directing?
      <sigh> As always, one man's Troll is another man's Funny. C'mon mods, lighten up.
  3. Two out of 18... by A+Nun+Must+Cow+Herd · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Furthermore, two study patients were still alive nearly three years after the treatment"... but what would the expected number of survivors be for a group that wasn't treated with this solution?

    They almost make it sound like the patients survived the treatment.

    1. Re:Two out of 18... by DoubleRing · · Score: 5, Informative
      but what would the expected number of survivors be for a group that wasn't treated with this solution?

      RTFA:

      Because life expectancy for the 14,000 annual glioma patients in the United States is typically a matter of months, the results shore up animal research indicating that the venom protein may inhibit tumor growth even without a radioactive component, Mamelak said.
      --
      Before you die, you see DoubleRing...
    2. Re:Two out of 18... by VikingThunder · · Score: 1

      From the article...:
      "The solution bound almost exclusively to leftover tumor cells, suggesting that it could be combined with chemotherapy to fight cancer. Furthermore, two study patients were still alive nearly three years after the treatment. Because life expectancy for the 14,000 annual glioma patients in the United States is typically a matter of months, the results shore up animal research indicating that the venom protein may inhibit tumor growth even without a radioactive component"

    3. Re:Two out of 18... by bruins01 · · Score: 2, Informative

      2 out of 18 is actually very good for this kind of cancer. The survival rate after three years is about 3%. 11% would be a step in the right direction, but 2/18 is way too small a sample size to really draw conclusions. It is one of the most aggressive cancers of all.

    4. Re:Two out of 18... by Alfred,+Lord+Tennyso · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not sure that answers the question. Many die within months, but we're talking about only 2 out of 18 to make it three years. Curves have tails, and knowing that the mean is only a few months doesn't tell us how many would be expected to live for 3 years.

      The Journal of Neuroscience (google cache, the site appears to be down) says that "more than half die within 18 months". Presumably that's with standard treatment. If half were to die every 18 months, that would still leave 1/4 of the patients, around 4, after two years.

      I'm sure that's not the right curve to draw; Wikipedia says "few patients survive beyond three years". Is "few" more or less than 2 out of 18? Probably less, but I'm still not at all clear on whether this treatment is actually better than the standard treatment.

    5. Re:Two out of 18... by A+Nun+Must+Cow+Herd · · Score: 1

      Exactly. And even if 2 survivors at three years is atypical for traditional treatment methods, how much does it really say given that the test group was so small?

    6. Re:Two out of 18... by A+Nun+Must+Cow+Herd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're probably aware that your quote doesn't answer the question. Not only is "a matter of months" vague enough to be unenlightening, but it also gives no indication of the distribution. Let me rephrase the question to see if that helps:
      How unusual would it be for there to be two survivors at three years without using this new treatment?

    7. Re:Two out of 18... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      My mother had this stuff and she lasted three weeks after the surgery. Living past a year is pretty rare, and living past two is abberrant. Mind you, I wouldn't want to live three days with this stuff unless it was caught hella early. It's an ugly form of an ugly disease.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    8. Re:Two out of 18... by BLAG-blast · · Score: 1
      animal research indicating that the venom protein may inhibit tumor growth even without a radioactive component, Mamelak said.

      So, would that mean, if a glioma patient has of chosen to see a shaman witch doctor (note, probably too much redundancy in the last three words), who stung him with a yellow scorpion, might live longer than a patient in a similar condition under going western treatment. Depending on how healthy the patient and the ability of the shaman to administer a non-lethal dose, or maybe the scorpion delivers only a small amount of venom in one sting. Hmmmm.

      I can't put forward how the shaman would know about this or diagnose the condition. Maybe he just stings everybody with a yellow scorpion, but does it often enough that he stopped killing patients a long time ago.

      Peace.

      Ps: I would like to thank grammarnazi for helping me become better at spelling and gramma. Thank you!

      --
      M0571y H@rml355.
    9. Re:Two out of 18... by A+Nun+Must+Cow+Herd · · Score: 1

      3% is scary. Does it tail off after three years, or is the survival rate at six years about zero?

    10. Re:Two out of 18... by bruins01 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Statistically, just a bit. The 10 year rate of survival for patients diagnosed with glioblastoma is 1.7%.

    11. Re:Two out of 18... by darkonc · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Granted, with a sample size of 18, it's not absolutely sure that the treatment was responsible, but even with a good sized tail, 2/18 patients lasting 3 years is enough to make it worthwhile funding another study.... At absolute worst this treatment did the patients little, if any harm (statistically speaking).
      "So let me get this straight: My choice is to die within months from this aggressive cancer, or let you inject me with scorpion venom?"
      "yep".
      "this reminds me of a George Carlin joke: '"Well Jim, there's no reason why you shouldn't live another twenty to thirty years. However, you will be bleeding constantly from both eyes'".
      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
    12. Re:Two out of 18... by cbnewman · · Score: 1

      First of all, it sounds like from the article that we're talking about high-grade gliomas (like glioblastoma multiforme) here. Typical survival is 5% after 5 years. Median survival time with best available treatment was 14 months 50 years ago. Now it's about 19 months and many people argue that it's because we're diagnosing gliomas earlier.

      In short, this looks very promising but we're a long way from any sort of clinically relavent treatment.

    13. Re:Two out of 18... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Insightful
      but I'm still not at all clear on whether this treatment is actually better than the standard treatment.

      The problem with the "standard treatment" is it usually involves surgery. The Glial cells are the support and structure cells for the actual brain cells. To the naked eye, the cancerous cells (Glioma) are undistinguishable from normal cells (like sugar and salt mixed in a bowl - for multiforme), though an MRI can differentiate.

      Any surgery also removes healthy Glial and brain cells (which do not regenerate) and the patient's functionality degrades. All it takes is one remaining Glioma cell and the process starts again.

      Some people cannot, or choose not to, have surgery. As I posted earlier, my wife died in January of a GBM, just 7 weeks after diagnosis. She declined as it was next to her brain stem and would have left her completely paralyzed on her left side and blind in the left side of each eye. Surgery may have prolonged her life a bit, but it wouldn't have been the life she loved.

      Hopefully, treatments like this will reduce the need for surgery at some point.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    14. Re:Two out of 18... by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also note that what they were performing isn't actually designed to destroy the cancer. They mixed this venom-derivative with a dye, and it targetted the cells correctly. When they actually use it properly, they're going to be mixing the targetting agent with something a lot more effective than an iodine dye. The 2 out of 18 thing is not an evaluation of the therapy, its noting an anomoly which a researcher presents a possible explanation for (the targetting agent itself inhibits cancerous growth). That possible explanation has neither been proved, nor is the point of this research.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    15. Re:Two out of 18... by Moridineas · · Score: 1

      My truly sincere condolences on your loss..

      A very good friend of mine was recently diagnosed with inoperable, multi-tumor stomach cancer.. life can really be a bitch.

    16. Re:Two out of 18... by da.phreak · · Score: 1

      I think 2 out of 18 is much. Glioblastoma is one of the most aggressive type of cancer. The glia cells in the brain just grow and grow and grow constantly at an amzing speed. Removing the tumor itself doesn't help at all as the cancer cell grows through the surrounding brain tissues, it spreads all over the brain. It will grow back within weeks. Believe me, I've seen it myself. My mother did live almost a year after diagnosis, which is long for this kind of cancer.

    17. Re:Two out of 18... by Threni · · Score: 1, Redundant

      > Granted, with a sample size of 18, it's not absolutely sure that the treatment was responsible, but
      > even with a good sized tail, 2/18 patients lasting 3 years is enough to make it worthwhile funding
      > another study....

      No. You've still not answered the question. If 2 patients lasting 3 years is what you'd expect to happen without treatment then there would be very little point in funding that study at the expense of another study which showed that 2 patients lasted 3 years where normally they'd all have died.

    18. Re:Two out of 18... by crmartin · · Score: 1

      My sympathy as well --- I lost a girlfriend to a GBM some years ago.

    19. Re:Two out of 18... by crmartin · · Score: 1

      Total survival for a glioblastoma is around 9 percent for three years, but this is three years survival after treatment; 2 out of 18 is already a little better (probably not significant with an n of 18), but it's a selected population. In any case, gliomas are such nasty beasts that any hope is good news.

    20. Re:Two out of 18... by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      I feel your pain as well. Last December, my Grandfather's three year fight with two types of lung cancer, stomach cancer and three others ended.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    21. Re:Two out of 18... by darkonc · · Score: 2, Insightful
      OK: let's be blunt.
      with an average survival time in months, one person lasting 3 years would be good. 2 people lasting 3 years means either
      1) this study group got really lucky or,
      2) This method is really, really promising.
      with bets on #2.

      I think that somebody posted that the 3 year survival rate is something like 3%, so this 10% survival rate is unusually high -- but possibly skewed by the sample size. This also depends on the patient group.... Young patients (rare) have a higher survival rate (up to 20% at 5 years according to this table), while retired people (who make up almost half the sufferers) have a less than 1% chance at surviving 5 years.

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
    22. Re:Two out of 18... by bracher · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ummm....

      "In the study, 18 patients first had surgery to remove malignant gliomas".

      So, they had the standard surgical treatment, and _then_ the radioactive venom. Alfred's question remains unanswered... How does 2/18 at 3 years differ from the survival rate for just the surgical procedure?

    23. Re:Two out of 18... by VTMarik · · Score: 0

      So a guaranteed matter of months vs. an 11% success rate for this chlorotoxin treatment to survive past three years. I'd take the treatment!

    24. Re:Two out of 18... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1
      So, they had the standard surgical treatment, and _then_ the radioactive venom. Alfred's question remains unanswered... How does 2/18 at 3 years differ from the survival rate for just the surgical procedure?

      Not much, (though the stats for GBM patients with treatment is basically 2 / 12,500 after 3 years, so 2/18 is better) but you can't get enrolled in studies like this without first having standard treatment first. The priority is saving lives (well trying to), then furthering research.

      For all practical purposes, with GBMs anyway, surgery and treatment just postpone the inevitable, though they all have undesirable consequences. Damage from surgery is irreparable, standard radiation course of 60 Grays is your brain's lifetime radiation limit. Chemotherapy like Temodar cannot generally be used on children.

      In general, the worse a patient's present functionality, the worse the response to subsequent treatments. Any treatment that is be effective with reduced side effects is better. The prognosis for Gliomas (specifically GBMs) has not changed significantly in 30 years, even with all the advances in treatment. All it takes is one remaining cancerous cell and the process starts all over again...

      Until a cure is found, quality of life is very important.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    25. Re:Two out of 18... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1
      My sympathy as well --- I lost a girlfriend to a GBM some years ago.

      Thank you, and I'm sorry for your loss as well. The /. crowd has been (generally) very compassionate in their responses to the relevant posts I've made over the months. You and I share an experience no one should have to endure. I'm not saying that there aren't more tragic events out there, but, well, you know...

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    26. Re:Two out of 18... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a dye that they attached to the venom. It was a radioactive form of Iodine (Likely I-123, less likely I-131). Oh, and for the record, if they did use I-131 attached to the venom with enough activity (which is super easy to do)... that is an effective therapeutic agent in itself (providing low background distribution; but hey that's what the scan was for). Basically this is a nuclear medicine procedure (and hopefully soon to be therapy) not to be confused with a traditional radiology procedure (like a CT or MRI).

    27. Re:Two out of 18... by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      As I understand the article, the only purpose of the radioactivity of the iodine isotope was to allow the venom to be tracked. Obviously a coloured dye is no use, unless they want to chop open the patients brain and see which bits turned green. Instead they use a radioactive dye they can track through imaging. The purpose of the test wasn't to establish a treatment, but to show the targetting agent was safe. In the process they found a statistical anomaly in that some of their patients survived longer than usual, but that wasn't the point of the procedure. As one of the doctors says "we have shown that it is safe and that we should at least move forward." That was the point of the experiment.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    28. Re:Two out of 18... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Fahrbot, sorry for your loss, my Uncle had surgery in 1989 and was able to stay with us for 10 months.

  4. SHUDDER by Eightyford · · Score: 3, Funny
    Giant yellow Israeli scorpions live in the deserts of the Middle East and grow to about 4 inches long.
    So why are people fighting over land in that part of the world?
    1. Re:SHUDDER by pete-classic · · Score: 5, Funny
      So why are people fighting over land in that part of the world?


      Says the guy with "godgab" as his god damned signature.

      Un-fucking-believable.

      -Peter
    2. Re:SHUDDER by Eightyford · · Score: 1
      Says the guy with "godgab" as his god damned signature. Un-fucking-believable.
      Says one of the few people I've came in contact with that is missing the sarcasm/humour gene. So sad.
    3. Re:SHUDDER by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 5, Funny

      So why are people fighting over land in that part of the world?

      They want the part that isn't infested with 4-inch long yellow scorpions.

      --
      I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
    4. Re:SHUDDER by Joebert · · Score: 0, Redundant
      So why are people fighting over land in that part of the world?

      It's like when Disney started secretly buying land through anonymous entities in Florida & as soon as word got out Disney was the ones actually buying the land, the prices skyrocketed, except in this case, the rockets are skying.

      It's really complicated shit, that's all I know.
      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    5. Re:SHUDDER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they cure cancer, duh.

    6. Re:SHUDDER by Riktov · · Score: 1

      Because Syrian, Jordanian, Arabian, and Egyptian scorpions all grow to 9 inches long.

    7. Re:SHUDDER by hey! · · Score: 1

      They want the part that isn't infested with 4-inch long yellow scorpions.

      Which, it turns out, will only be fit for 4-inch long yellow scoprions when people are through with it.

      I turns out, human beings are only the fourth most intelligent species on planet.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    8. Re:SHUDDER by pete-classic · · Score: 1

      I can detect humor, but not in the trace amounts present in your post.

      -Peter

  5. Yeah, but... by EnsilZah · · Score: 2, Funny

    Where do we find a vault-dweller to hunt some of those rad scorpions for us?

    1. Re:Yeah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have an account yet; that's why I'm posting as AC.

      But I've got to acknowledge the Fallout reference. Was the third installment any good?

    2. Re:Yeah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can start in Arroyo to get the Vault-dweller, but if you want to make the antitoxin, you have to convince Myron in New Reno to join your party. Just give him the Nuka-Cola and the radscorpion venom to the brain tumor cure. Doc Holliday in Broken Hills will trade you a doctor's bag and some stimpacks for a sample. Hope that helps.

    3. Re:Yeah, but... by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

      Third installment, which one do you mean?
      There's Tactics which was alright.
      There's that console game which everyone hates.
      And there's Fallout 3 which Bethesda is working on which is not out yet...

    4. Re:Yeah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that, but how many bottle caps will the treatment cost?

    5. Re:Yeah, but... by Sj0 · · Score: 1

      There's your answer: It redefines entire genres, is grander in scope and more beautiful in execution than anything that came before it, and it's buggy shit that MAY, god willing, become playable after the third or fourth year out.

      --
      It's been a long time.
  6. Injected their brains?? by XanC · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sign me up for that!<servo>

  7. Go Pip-Boy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Glad to hear that the vault dweller saved the day again. I wonder how many bottle caps the treatment will cost.

    1. Re:Go Pip-Boy! by boron+boy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Jokes aside, cost might be an issue. Scorpion venom is the most expensive liquid in the world by volume.

    2. Re:Go Pip-Boy! by JuzzFunky · · Score: 1

      ...let alone venom from radioactive scorpions!!

      --
      Unexpect the expected!
    3. Re:Go Pip-Boy! by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1
      Scorpion venom is the most expensive liquid in the world by volume.

      Damn. And I thought it was ink for ink jet refills!

      --
      That is all.
    4. Re:Go Pip-Boy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RTFA.
          "Then doctors injected their brains with a solution of radioactive iodine and TM-601, the SYNTHETIC protein"...

      (No promises that synthetic's any cheaper, though...)

  8. Re:Radioactive Scorpion Venom by StikyPad · · Score: 1, Funny

    Radioactive Scorpion Venom -- It's not just offtopic in discussions which don't involve radioactive scorpion venom anymore!

  9. Old news to players of Fallout by OnanTheBarbarian · · Score: 1

    I don't know about all those high-falutin' "science" guys, but any Fallout players worthy of the title were already familiar with the interesting medical properties of radioactive scorpion venom way back in the 90s. Yet another case of Slashdot being late with the news...

  10. Holy Crap by GammaKitsune · · Score: 1

    Do these people not know of the risks that they're taking? Look at what happened to The Scorpion! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion

    --
    Gamertag: WyleType
  11. PA prediction? by Napalm+Boy · · Score: 2, Informative

    Radioactive scorpions?

    It's been done.

    --
    Well, the door was open...
  12. You got the spider-man joke! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Congratulations! A winner is you!

  13. People, wake up! by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is just some insane publicity stunt by Stan Lee for the "Who Wants To Be A Superhero" TV show!

    Injecting yourself with radioactive venom doesn't give you superpowers.

    God KNOWS I've tried!

    --
    Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
    1. Re:People, wake up! by steveo777 · · Score: 3, Funny
      Wish I could tell you which Family Guy episode it was, but I think they were taking fan mail and doing TV shows with them. The family got super powers and took over the town. Mayor Adam West announces that he's going to roll in radioactive goo and later shows up in the doctor's office. The conversations looks like this:

      Doc: I'm sorry, Mayor West, but you've got cancer.

      West: Oh..., no superpowers? Speed? Strength?

      Doc: No, just cancer.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
  14. Insert... by LeoHat · · Score: 1

    ... obligatory Spiderman joke here.

    --
    The mistakes of a clever man are equal to the mistakes of a thousand fools.
    1. Re:Insert... by kfg · · Score: 1

      Scorpion Man, Scorpion Man
      Does whatever a scorpion can
      He's got acid to dissolve, the guts of thieves with resolve
      Look out! Here comes the Scorpion Man.

      Can he sting? Listen, Bud, he's got radioactive blood
      Can his pincers grab you fast?
      Can you say "You bet yer ass"?
      Hey there! There goes the Scorpion Man.

      KFG

  15. Re:Radioactive Scorpion Venom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All together now: "I, for one, welcome our giant yellow venomous radioactive...", and so on.

  16. Hard to see how they would target cancer cells by Black-Six · · Score: 1

    I can understand the priciples behind this kind of treatment. Scorpion poison is a heom-nureo toxin (means that it attacks blood and nerve cells) that targets both braches of cancer cells, blood supplies and nerve connections for continued growth. An added benefit is that scorpion venom is relativly safe to humans. In all but the rarest cases that involved serious allergic reactions and death, scorpion sting victims expericed a large welp and severe pain, something like a VERY LARGE bee sting. The part that kinda doesn't make sense here is the radiological material, but I've and heard of an experimental treatment for cancer tumors that involves 10 times the level of normal radiation treatment coures and is done in a single 2 hrs process. The tumor is radiologically tagged and insulated, then a high dose of the elements Mb 117, Molybdenum, U 235, Uranium, and moderator of sorts Boron (check me on this I may be wrong on the elements but I know its a radiological dose none the less) and the tumor disappears in 24-48 hrs and has a success rate of 100%. The only thing I could see the radiological material doing is tagging the cells for destruction and giving guidance to the radioactive scorpion venom to reduce harm to healthy tissue. If this works they may have invented a cancer proof cure for cancer.

    1. Re:Hard to see how they would target cancer cells by Tony-A · · Score: 1

      Radioactive tagging is kinda standard anytime you want to be able to determine where the chemical goes or what it reacts with. And how much.
      The tagging is NOT going to assist anything chemically (otherwise it would be east to separate U235 from natural uranium). If the targeted cells have a large affinity for some unusual chemical, then a radioactive version of that chemical will deliver a concentrated dose. If nothing else has an affinity for it, then nothing else will be much bothered. The ideal is some exotic brew that only the tumor wants.

    2. Re:Hard to see how they would target cancer cells by Punko · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The important thing is to find a protein that latches on the the cancer cells and not normal cells. There are many proteins out there for the different kinds of cancer. For this brain cancer, it appears that they have found such a protein. They will probably 'tag' the protein with radioactive (beta or beta/gamma emitters, not alphas like uranium) iodine (I-131 or I-128) or yittrium (Y-90) or phosphorous (P-32) (depending on the chemistry and the dose required). They will not use heavy metals like Uranium as the half-life is too long. The radioactive package will be released wherever the protein is. If the protein sticks to the cancer cell, then the cancer cell gets most of the dosage. The brain is fairly radiation-safe, as radiation kills cells that are actively reproducing (like cancer cells). Brain cells haven't been reproduced since entering adulthood. Radiation taggin therapy is not new. The fact that they have found a protein to bind to this kind of cancer cell is very new.

      --
      If only we could fall into a woman's arms without falling into her hands
    3. Re:Hard to see how they would target cancer cells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I am a radiation oncologist. I haven't read the article, but the process, in general, isn't anything new. Many examples exist of radioactive substances (I-125 most commonly) bound to proteins/antibodies which bind to specific targets. It sounds like there is something in the venom protein which makes its binding specific to tumor cells. This places the radioactive iodine in proximity to the tumor cells.


      The BEST reported median survival with glioblastoma multiforme, with the most aggressive treatment, is about 13 months. However, this does not preclude some patients from being alive longer. It does not sound, to me, like this treatment is really any better than anything else currently out there. (But, again, I haven't read the article.)


      Most similar treatments of this type for glioma tend to bind I-125 to epidermal growth factor receptor, which is tumor-specific (though not all gliomas overexpress it).

  17. More treatments by lawpoop · · Score: 4, Informative

    Hey folks -- take an honest listen for a moment. I don't want to come off as a new-age hippie, but honestly, the amazon rain forest has millions of poisonous bugs that we currently know nothing about. If you take a trip into the jungle and are a bug-watcher like I am, chances are you will see dozens of insects that currently aren't recognized by science.

    The amazon jungle is full of life, and it's all practically poisonous plants and insects. Think about it -- the biggest predator in the jungle is man, and jaguars are a close second, coming in at about 70 pounds. All of the biomass in the jungle is bound up in plants and insects. There has been no downtime in the evolution of living things in the jungle for the past several million years. There is no winter, no dead non-metabolising topsoil -- animals and plants just eating and mating and reproducings generation after generation. The ethnobotanist Mark Plotkin says that the jungle is chemical warfare that has been going on for millions of years.

    When I was on an excursion in the jungle of Ecuador, I decided to take a small hike during some downtime in the program. Foolishly I wore only sandals on my feet. Not 15 minutes down the trail, I felt dozens of ants biting my foot. Panicked, I reached down to brush them all off, but there was only three or four ants on my foot! When they bit into my skin, I didn't feel anything, but moments later, I would feel several bites in different places on my foot.

    So my long-winded point is that there are millions of potential cancer cures out there, all kinds of medications and interesting chemicals. All of the chemical defenses plants and animals evolve work by interrupting or changing the normal cellular functioning of living organisms. The difference between medicine and poison is a question of dosage, as Plotkin paraphrased Paracelsus. We really need to work hard to make sure that this incredible resource stays around for future research. I don't know specifically what you and I can do, but awareness is the first step.

    --
    Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
    -- Pablo Picasso
    1. Re:More treatments by Majik+Sheff · · Score: 1

      I agree with you wholeheartedly. The jungle truly is God's laboratory.

      I'd also like to tank you for reinforcing a long-standing theory of mine: The only people who call the jungle a rain forest are the people who've never had to spend a night in it. :)

      --
      Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
    2. Re:More treatments by Unc-70 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The trouble with this concept is that its a difficult process. The structures of chemicals from natural sources may be extremely complex, more so than is possible to produce on a large scale. The following links are from a blog by a professional medicinal chemist, who has a lot of experience in the area and offer a good deal of insight into the process of deriving a drug from natural sources.
      1 http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2006/04/26/ju ngle_rot.php
      2 http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2006/04/30/al l_natural.php
      3 http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2006/05/08/a_ natural_wonder_drug_now_what.php

      --
      Ye have made your way from the worm to man, and much within you is still worm.
    3. Re:More treatments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      So my long-winded point is that there (in tropical forest) are millions of potential cancer cures out there...
      And millions of potential nasty new diseases. Better safe than sorry - I say we nuke'em.
    4. Re:More treatments by jackbird · · Score: 1

      Nah, new diseases mostly arise in places where lots and lots of infectible humans live together (syphilis, smallpox), or infectible humans live together with lots and lots of the same species of infectible animal (plague, bird flu). The exceptions (HIV, Kufu) tend to come when humans do really weird shit (and for pretty much the same underlying reasons).

    5. Re:More treatments by mgblst · · Score: 1

      I see what you are saying. Chop down all the trees, and we have access to a huge range of medicines and drugs... what are we waiting for. I ll get my axe and meet you in Brazil.

    6. Re:More treatments by chookachook · · Score: 1

      It was not that long ago I read a scary sounding article that suggested that at least one promising research project, I think it was involving garlic, was cancelled because you cannot patent garlic. Now I can't find the link, and I have no idea how reliable the article was at any rate (maybe somebody else has seen it), but it does sound plausible that the large research companies might not be as interested in investigating the natural world if natural materials could not be "owned and controlled" and via patents.

    7. Re:More treatments by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      Oh god, I'm outing you. Everyone take note this looney is a Kevin Trudeau fan.

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
  18. This is why its important to read labels! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Side effects can include nausea, diarrhea, dizziness, and turning into a Marvel supervillian.

  19. How'd they come up with that? by JavaNPerl · · Score: 3, Funny

    Patient: Doc I'm still in terrible pain, is there anything else you can do for my cancer?
    Doctor (whispers): Nurse. What do we have to euthanize this patient and put him out of his misery?
    Nurse (whispers): We got some radioactive scorpion venom, that should be quick.
    Doctor: 100 CCs of radioactive scorpion venom, stat!
    -NURSE INJECTS VENOM-
    Patient: I feel better.
    Doctor & Nurse in unison: Holy Sh*t!

  20. You're the resident expert... by jd · · Score: 1
    Can you answer this one for me. They're talking about using this in conjunction with chemotherapy, which is notoriously toxic to the body. However, the scorpion venom will have spectral absorbtion properties totally unlike anything in the brain, which means that if you tune a microwave to that unique frequency, it'll cook the cancer cells in the vicinity of the venom and will leave the rest of the brain completely untouched.


    It would seem, at first glance, that this tagging mechanism would be ideal for treatments that can be finely targetted onto that mechanism, but that it isn't going to be nearly so effective as simply a means of weakening what's left for the chemo to get.


    However, this is so blindingly obvious that, since it wasn't mentioned, there's an advantage to chemo -or- a disadvantage to my suggestion that I'm missing and is amazingly obvious to these guys. Any idea on what that might be?

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:You're the resident expert... by Black-Six · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You make an excellent point about tuning microwaves to the frequency of the venom to cook cancer cells, but there are just to many variables here for it to even be considered, not now anyway. First of all, the way a microwave oven works is to induce heat by adding electrons to fatty cells, that's why meat gets warmer faster than bread. Doctors wouldn't go for this due to the fact they could scramble brains even with only a few seconds exposure. Second of all, microwaves experience the same problems as laser beams do in atmosphere's. Nitrogen is a great scatterer of IR and EM waves thus the Northern Lights due to solar wind, also one has to take into account the varying layers of material to be penetrated and not to be fried by microwaves to reach the venom tagged cells. A design team would have to use the very lattest in computer processing power, both hardware and software, to produce a system that could calculate, tune, and react within naon seconds of a very long series of commands, 100-200 million calcs/nanosec, to even begin to be capable of developing a safe and controllable enviroment in which to treat people. Lastly, life evolves. To quote Dr. Malcom from Jurassic Park "Life will find a way.". Every few years, or even every few months, the systen would requier massive updates and overhauls to adapt to the new biological structures being used in it. These last 2 items aren't cost effective and as has been shown with the ABL, are very frustrating and time consuming. Your idea isn't flawed, its briliant. However, our current understanding of Quantum Mechanics is such that laser's and microwaves are about as far as we can develope hardware successfully. To activate the venom and not scramble the patient, you would need something akin to a remote for a TV to activate the venom. A single burst of commands to the venom instead of seconds of agitant microwaves would be far safer and much easier to use than tuning a microwave to each individuals own "frequency" so as to not kill your patient. This could lead to the Star Trek breed of nanoprobes used by the Borg, but to save life instead of take it.

      The use of chemo still is that its the most effective way to treat cancer. However with treatments like this on the horizon, we could see a revoultion in the field of medicare within a few decades and definitly my lifetime. The world needs creative minds to continue to florish, so keep at it!

    2. Re:You're the resident expert... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, the way a microwave oven works is to induce heat by adding electrons to fatty cells, that's why meat gets warmer faster than bread.

      Score: -1, Odd

    3. Re:You're the resident expert... by Tony-A · · Score: 1

      The basic idea of chemotherapy is to carefully administer poison. Enough to kill off the tumor. Not enough to kill off the patient.

      Having gone through treatment for lymphoma (MALT), not bad (for me personally) but has to depend on individual reactions.
      I kept the hair on top of my head but lost my eyebrows and eyelashes.

  21. Waste of money by fuchsite · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Why is the government funding research which only benefits a few people when we still lack a space program that will save the whole species if a massive asteroid hits us? Where are the priorities? This is worse than spending money on new drinking-water wells in India when children lack basic things like laptops!

    1. Re:Waste of money by spun · · Score: 1

      No one understands sarcasm anymore, do they?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  22. Alive... but at what cost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Furthermore, two study patients were still alive nearly three years after the treatment.

    Sure, these two are alive. But each has now surpassed 150 meters in height, and continue to grow in size and power. Scores of thousands are dead in Washington, San Francisco and Tokyo. A dozen Army divisions and half the navy have been wiped out. And they're still out there on the loose, somewhere in the mountain wilderness, gathering strength for their next attacks. Things look very bleak right now, and joking about how they're "cured" is highly inappropriate given the current circumstances.

  23. Re:Radioactive Scorpion Venom by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

    I wonder if someone could explain to me why this comment is "-1, offtopic" as opposed to the other comments that are rated "+5, funny". Call me weird, but I think this one is worth at least a "+0.5, slightly funnier than an episode of Friends".

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  24. I for one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... just can't bring myself to finish the joke.

  25. Don't go wading in it by ross.w · · Score: 1

    without your radiation suit ..or invulnerability. That works too.

    --
    If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
  26. Just great. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This is just great, sigh. My wife died from Glioblastoma Multiforme (GBM) in January, just 7 weeks after diagnosis in November. The average life expectancy for GBM (grade IV Glioma) patients is 4 to 18 months. Only a handful of the 14,000 / year live past 24 months. I hope this proves effective and saves many, many lives.

    My world, however, will remain dark.
    Remember Sue...

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:Just great. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      My sympathies, truly. Let's hope few others have to go through that pain.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  27. Oblig. Sealab 2021, "All That Jazz" by Dachannien · · Score: 1

    Captain Murphy: Come on, come on, what are you waiting for?! Daddy needs his medicine.

    1. Re:Oblig. Sealab 2021, "All That Jazz" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, it's *you*, Ben!

  28. I for one..... by Lissajous · · Score: 0, Redundant

    .....welcome our Radioactive Scorpion Overlords.

    (oblig.)

  29. Biology Related to Chlorotoxin by obiwanjabroni · · Score: 5, Informative

    Howdy,

    The effectiveness of chlorotoxin in treatment of glioblastomas was discovered by a scientist here at my institution (http://www.neurobiology.uab.edu/Faculty/Sontheime r/Sontheimer.htm). Glioblastoma is hypothesized to be so deadly because of the ability of cancer cells inside the brain to quickly migrate from the primary site to other sites within the brain, quickly invading normal brain tissue. This makes surgery or radiation not very effective, since migrating cells may be hidden within normal brain that is not irradiated or cut out. The migratory ability of glioblastoma cells is related to its unique ability to change size and morphology to move in between normal brain cells.

    The size-changing migratory ability is related to a specific chloride ion channel that expresses highly and uniquely on certain brain cancer cells, including gliomas (PubMed ID: 8804043, 8967454). Chlorotoxin, a chloride channel inhibitor discovered in 1993 (PubMed ID: 8383429) was more interestingly found to bind to this glioma-specific chloride ion channel in mice in 1998 (PubMed ID: 9809993) and humans in 2002 (PubMed ID: 12112367). Although it was shown that chlorotoxin failed to inhibit migratory ability due to size-change, chlorotoxin was shown to inhibit migration by inhibition of another protein involved in breaking down the extracellular matrix, allowing cells to more easily migrate.

    The strategy that TransMolecular uses to treat gliomas lies in the specificity of expression of the channel to which chlorotoxin binds. That channel is expressed on the vast majority of glioma tissue samples tested, and only rarely on normal tissue. If one attaches a weak or short-lasting radioactive moiety to chlorotoxin, a potential treatment can be to target glioma cells using chlorotoxin, and then kill them by short-lasting localized radiation. This strategy is already being used in Non Hodgkins Lymphoma and other diseases by attaching to tumor- targeting antibodies a radioactive iodine atom.

  30. Re:So many terrible jokes here... by werewolf1031 · · Score: 1

    Flamebait? C'mon, mods... grow a frickin' funny bone, will ya?

  31. You Made A Bad Assumption by obiwanjabroni · · Score: 1

    If you read the study, this study focuses on those who have failed conventional treatment, as is the case with most Phase I trials.

    These poor folks have no other choice but to pursue experimental therapy - otherwise their expected survival rate is MUCH less than what would occur in the normal population.

    In addition, Phase I trials are NOT designed to measure efficacy - they are designed to measure safety. Phase II & III trials will be able to determine prospectively efficacy of treatment versus control.

  32. I for one welcome our.... by gijoel · · Score: 1

    I for one welcome our radioactive Scor... save us Spidey, save us.

  33. Re:So many terrible jokes here... by fimbulvetr · · Score: 1

    Hah, that was hilarious. What's wrong with the mods?

  34. How it works.. by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 1

    Upon injection, the Scorpion molecules each seek out tumor cells, whip tiny hooked protein chains at them, and shout "GET OVER HERE!" while violently yanking them out of the brain tissue.

  35. New Super Hero by colin8651 · · Score: 1

    And they will call him "Scorpio"; he who fights crime one sting at a time.

  36. Not a breakthrough by Chris+whatever · · Score: 1

    Ok they say 2 out of the 18 patients were still alive after 2 years? that means 16 died from their cancer, so how is this study any good?

    I mean if they said that 13 of the 18 patient still lived then it would suggest a real breakthrough and a valid treatment but come on, two out of 18 is 11% success, that hardly counts.

    1. Re:Not a breakthrough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a success because patients with this type of cancer normally die after a few months. RTFA.

  37. Radioactive Scorpion Venom ?!?!? by GSwarthout · · Score: 1

    And I suppose that this is administered by dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?

    --
    It is the 21st century and the time for Klax has passed.
  38. Farming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everybody thought I was really strange back when I started this scorpion farm. But I knew it would pay off some day. Now I'm in position to monopolize this market. Nobody else out there can come anywhere close to the 2 gallons of venom a day that I can harvest.

  39. New Developments.... by Apostata · · Score: 1

    The female test subjects who went on to bear children jealously kept their offspring on their backs as they foraged for proteins in the forest.

    --

    This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
  40. Another spin by necro2607 · · Score: 1

    "Furthermore, two study patients were still alive nearly three years after the treatment."

    You could also interpret this as "furthermore, sixteen study patients died within three years of treatment"... ;)

  41. Animal Testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I often wonder where they come up with these things as well. I figure it just pops out of the larger quest to just understand why things work. I suppose somewhere at one university some research is investigating how scorpion venom works. Some place else a researcher is trying to find chemicals or proteins that bond only to certain types of cells. Scientist B reads an abstract from Scientist A and thinks, "that just might work, lets see what happens if I do this with a lab rat." Of course, he probably injects it into a lot of cancerous rats figuring out how to deliver it effectively and watching for possible side effects before he dares try it on a person, because no one in their right mind would simply inject radioactive scorpion venom into a patient. Even if they really did want to euthanize them, they'd probably just overdose them on morphine.

    I bring up animal testing because I'm reminded of an insane conversation I had with someone who was trying desperately to convince me of the wrongs of animal testing. Their argument, however, was not based on the dignitiy or rights of animals. Instead, they kept ranting about how it added absolutely no value to medical research and in fact was actually harmful to people! The contention was that because there are often cases where the same treatments have different effects in people than in other animals, sometimes opposite effects, that in all cases testing on animals was worthless. Even to the point that when I asked if it would be better to test chemicals like arsenic (poor example since we already know it's poisonous) on only people to determine if it was good or bad, they said yes. I'm sorry, but if something kills a lab rat, you ain't sticking it in my body, but if I've got cancer and you can show me something that sounds crazy like radioactive scorpion venom that stopped cancer growth in lab rats, I'm all ears.

  42. lucky by cdn-programmer · · Score: 1

    While you may not realise this - you were lucky. Your wife however was not.

    My wife also died of a brain tumour (Glioma but not GBM). She survived for 10 years. 6 of those 10 years were very difficult for me because I had to provide 100% supervision.

    Mind you my wife did reasonably well for the first 3-4 years. She finished uni and my son was born and now he has graduated with distinction. Nevertheless I had the tripple duty of providing for my family, looking after her and running my business and I did not get much in the way of help.

    Since your wife's illness was quick - you probably don't know the stress that comes with years of having to look after a person who looks relatively heathy but is totally disabled. In addition, brain injuries can create a situation where the patient's actions create danger to others such as pre-school kids. This is what I faced.

    1. Re:lucky by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1
      Since your wife's illness was quick - you probably don't know the stress that comes with years of having to look after a person who looks relatively heathy but is totally disabled.

      While I cannot begin to realize what you and your wife had to endure, I did get a glimpse of this over the 7 weeks from diagnosis to death. Susan's Solu-Medrol dosage was 160mg / day (40mg x 4) which was high enough to require it be given IV. She had a PIC line and I administered it every 6 hours along with the other (oral) meds -- which I sometimes had to entice her to take.

      Each IV application took 20 minutes via Home Pump (med filled elastomer ball with flow requlator) The last week (before she slipped into a coma), the dosage was increased to 40mg x 6 (every 4 hours). I didn't get much sleep. She was very sweet, but not always all there and it broke my heart.

      One of the worst things was everything I learned about her condition and the knowledge of what the future would bring. No one should have to endure this.

      I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new here and my heart goes out to you. All my best to you and yours.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  43. Re:More treatments & Fungus by cdn-programmer · · Score: 0

    You failed to mention fungus. There are at least 15 million species of fungus and we know only a smattering about a few of them. The rain forests are devoured by the fungus.