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Holographic Storage a Reality in 2006?

vitaly.friedman writes "What do you do when you're getting close to the limits of 2-dimensional optical technology? Well, how many dimensions do we have to work with?" From the Ars Technica article: "How much greater data density? In the Hitachi Maxell device, a single disc about 1 cm larger in diameter than a CD will buy you 300GB. By way of contrast, HD-DVD currently offers a maximum of 30GB on a 2-layer disc, and Blu-ray tops out at 50GB. Although upgrades are in the works that promise to increase the capacity of both of those formats, even the most pie-in-the-sky predictions fall short of what is planned for merely the first commercial generation of holographic storage. Future plans for that medium include boosting the capacity to 800GB in two years, and 1.6TB per disc by 2010."

40 of 214 comments (clear)

  1. I don't want a disc 1cm larger than a CD!!! by hummassa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I want a disc with 1cm radius TOPS, with 4G+ of storage.

    --
    It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
    1. Re:I don't want a disc 1cm larger than a CD!!! by joshetc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree.

      Maybe not even 1CM.. 2-3CM would be just fine. An important question is why the hell does all of our media have to be huge? Something the size of a flash card or slightly larger would be MUCH better. I'd take a 2.5CM disc with 30GB storage over a 8-9CM disk with 400GB storage any day.

      Imagine your whole 300+ movie collection weighing less than 5 lbs and taking a cubic foot of shelf space including the case!

    2. Re:I don't want a disc 1cm larger than a CD!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Did you read the article?

      It says at the end that the consumer version they are looking at would most likely be the size of a postage stamp and have 75G to 100G of storage.

    3. Re:I don't want a disc 1cm larger than a CD!!! by hummassa · · Score: 5, Funny
      Did you read the article?
      You must be new here :-)
      --
      It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
    4. Re:I don't want a disc 1cm larger than a CD!!! by Sillygates · · Score: 3, Informative

      Blu-ray is going to top out at 200GB, not 50GB link: http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/28/tdk-ok-were-don e-with-the-200gb-recordable-blu-ray/

      and its the same size as a traditional CD :)

      --
      I fear the Y2038 bug
    5. Re:I don't want a disc 1cm larger than a CD!!! by Fordiman · · Score: 4, Informative

      9cm dia. disc with 400GB (assuming 1cm dia. spindle) = 400G / (63.61-0.79) cm^2 = 6.37G / cm^2

      2.5cm dia. disc (assuming 0.5cm dia. spindle) = (4.91-0.2)cm^2*6.37(G/cm^2)=30.0027G

      Damned good math there, man. Kudos.

      And if I can get it in rewritable, all the better.

      --
      110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
  2. 1 CM larger? by insanarchist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wouldn't it make sense to keep it the same size so they can still use existing cd cases & so we don't have to buy new CD racks/holders? I mean, what's an extra ~50GB between friends? :p

    1. Re:1 CM larger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      The disc is thicker and might damage an ordinary cd/dvd drive if it is inserted by mistake. The larger diameter prevents this.

    2. Re:1 CM larger? by Unknown+Poltroon · · Score: 4, Funny

      "The larger diameter prevents this."

      No, unfortunatley it won't. It will TRY to prevent this.

      "Hello, tech support, my dvd drive shrunk, and then it broke when i used the hammer to get the disk in....."

      --
      All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
    3. Re:1 CM larger? by julesh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not to mention the fact that one of the reasons CDs/DVDs are the size they are (12cm) because it's the widest that can fit in a standard 5 1/4" drive bay (about 14.5cm) with enough space left at the sides for a tray open/close mechanism. These new disks are the same size as a 5 1/4" disk (13cm), which leaves just enough space at the side for guide mechanisms. So we're going to have to push these disks in like floppies. Hope they're not susceptible to scratching.

    4. Re:1 CM larger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The reason CDs are 120 mm is because that size holds 74 minutes of 16-bit stereo audio. The original specification presented by Philips was 115 mm with 14-bit audio and 60 minutes of storage. However, Sony wanted the extra storage and audio quality (I presume they had a reason behind this -- perhaps the longest LP ever made was 74 minutes long?)

    5. Re:1 CM larger? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've heared that the reason was Herbert von Karajan complaining that Beethoven's 9th symphony, when played correctly, would not fit onto the disk as originally specified.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    6. Re:1 CM larger? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ok, I've now googled around a bit and found this. Given that it is from a Philips server, it should be a reliable source. Seems what I've heared was not entirely correct, but also not entirely wrong either :-)

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    7. Re:1 CM larger? by Izmunuti · · Score: 4, Informative

      On Inphase's web site they have a PDF file with details on their media.

      http://www.inphase-tech.com/products/professional/ download/DataSheet_MEDIA.pdf

      You don't have to worry about inserting it into an ordinary CD/DVD drives because it's in a 135x153x11 mm cartridge. This is exactly the same dimensions of existing MO cartridges. I suppose one could cram one of their holo-cartridges into a MO drive or maybe if one had one of those ancient CD-ROMs that used a caddy...

      I like this from the PDF: "Recording Format: Phase Conjugate Polytopic Holographic". Not sure what that means, exactly, but it sounds cool.

      Iz

    8. Re:1 CM larger? by Sj0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First you make it work, THEN you make it small.

      If you try to get a new technology to exit the birthing process completely ready to sell, you're going to overwhelm your poor engineers.

      --
      It's been a long time.
    9. Re:1 CM larger? by jozmala · · Score: 2, Funny

      Do not underestimate the power of the force!

      Its like millions of cup holders had screamed, and then silence.

      --
      ©God :Copyright is exclusive right for creator to determine the use of his creation.
  3. now one scratch will cost you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny


    your entire pr0n collection

  4. A backup solution by laffer1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Finally, some progress on a real backup solution. Backup storage has not kept up with hard drives. It would be nice to be able to backup one of the new seagate disks with 1 or 2 discs. When you consider businesses have terabytes of data now this is still a floppy in terms of capacity. Its a great start though.

    1. Re:A backup solution by stubear · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was going to say the same thing. Storage isn't the problem these days, backing up extremely large hard drives or RAID arrays is. Not only that but access speeds are really becoming the greater bottleneck. Scanning through 100GB of photos can take a little while. I'd like to see companies work on faster indexing and file management. Microsoft, give us back the unified file storage in Vista damnit.

    2. Re:A backup solution by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Actually I think storage IS still a problem today. Not necessarily the space for storage, but the durability of it.

      For example, my main concern with this new storage is that it will hold a ton, but will still only have the couple year shelf-life that DVD-Rs and CD-Rs have.

      As storage space increases but shelf-life lags behind, it becomes increasingly riskier to actually use that full amount of space because you're basically putting more of your chickens in one basket.

      Does anybody know of any current developments that are working to solve this issue? Is having a home server the best way to reliably store all those old CD-Rs?

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    3. Re:A backup solution by Tweekster · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well CD-rs and DVD-r have upwards of 4-8 years and counting for life. Those people that claim 1-2 years, they are full of shit.

      Sure if you leave it directly in the sun im sure it will degrade. If you put it in a case in a drawer, it will work just fine for atleast 5 years

      --
      The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
    4. Re:A backup solution by jabuzz · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am not aware of any period of time in the last 20 years in which the capacity of at least one tape format has not exceeded the capacity of the largest hard drive on the market. Right now I have a Quantum DLT-S4 library at work, which is 800GB native capacity per tape. The largest hard drive I can buy is a 750GB Seagate.

    5. Re:A backup solution by NeMon'ess · · Score: 2, Informative

      What media do you buy? It matters. I have Verbatim 650MB CD-Rs from 1999 and earlier that I just tested and are still good. I also have used Fry's "Great Quality" house brand discs that were so bad, the last 50MB or more were unreadable a few months later and so I didn't burn more than 600MB on them after I found that out. They're probably useless now except as coasters or inaccurate throwing projectiles. I use Taiyo Yuden DVD-Rs now and am completely satisfied. TY is considered the best media available.

    6. Re:A backup solution by roystgnr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well CD-rs and DVD-r have upwards of 4-8 years and counting for life. Those people that claim 1-2 years, they are full of shit.

      Or they've just bought the wrong batches of media. I have some CD-Rs (Memorex) that I burned in 1997 which are still perfectly readable. I have some other CD-Rs (a PNY spindle, I think) that started to show unrecoverable errors within months. Maybe some brand names are cheaper than others, but I've also had good discs from PNY, and I wouldn't be surprised if other people have encountered bad Memorexes.

      Sometimes when other people say something that sounds "full of shit", the problem is actually just that you think you know everything, and you're wrong.

  5. Well, how many dimensions do we have to work with? by AWeishaupt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Give it a few years... 11 dimensional storage. Oh yes.

  6. DIsc? by JanneM · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't want a disc. I want something small we're able to use in smaller portable devices, something where the medium doesn't need to move.

    I want a cube. I want a cube about 1cm^3 in size. If that's too thick, a 2x1x0.5cm sliver is OK. Preferably translucent moss green, but other colors are of course also acceptable as long as they've appeared for futuristic storage in at least one reputable sci-fi movie.

    To be slightly serious, there's non-aesthetic reasons for this as well. With optical storage it's much faster to move the beam around than the media, and with rotating media your seek and read times alike are limited by the rotation speed.

    But mostly I just want a translucent green block because it's cool. Bonus points if there's a small LED inside making it glow.

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    1. Re:DIsc? by Finn61 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maybe this IBM Millipede thing would float your boat. It uses nanotechnology to push indentations into a plastic card.

      I think they're working on the translucent green part now.

      --
      "Looking good Vern."
  7. Check out millipede by Maury+Markowitz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1Tb / 1 in. This holographi stoage is nowhere near as good as millipede.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Millipede

  8. Re:Well, how many dimensions do we have to work wi by radarsat1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hm, too bad 7 of those dimensions will only fit one Planck-size bit each.. ;-)

  9. Re:Well, how many dimensions do we have to work wi by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Funny

    Great. So when you slide your disc into the drive it spontaneously crosses the Einstein-Rosen bridge and ends up in an alternate reality.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  10. Better late than never... by frostilicus2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its interesting how some tech predictions can be so wildly wrong. I read some advice in a magazine about 9 or 10 years ago which read something like this - "Don't buy a DVD-R drive, within a year or so they'll be replaced by holographic storage". I waited, but it just never came. Holographic storage has been just on the horizon for so long and never materialized, so its really great that a workable solution has been developed for technology with such promise. A little late, but better than not at all.

    --
    Nothing sucks like a Vax, nothing blows like a PowerMac G4
  11. Not for mass market... by LordVader717 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As I understand it, these discs are meant almost exclusively for backup and storage purposes. The thing about HDDVDs and BVDs are that you can press them in a production line for a few cents, while these things are a little more complicated.

  12. Still Disc by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why do these discs have to rotate? How about rotating just the spindle, inside the hub, directing the read/write laser? The reference laser for interference can shine from a fiber around the circumference, or from one side or the other. Rotating the disc is a waste of energy and time.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  13. "How" is Largely Irrelevant. by webword · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Personally, I don't care how my data is stored. It can be holographic, electromagnetic, or paper-click-o-matic. I care about how much I can store. I want it secure and I want it instantly available. Getting excited about "holographic" is pretty much a waste of time. Just tell me how much I can store, tell me how it can be (easily) set up and secured, and how much it is going to cost. After that, I'm just hearing 01010100101010. No thanks.

    By the way, I recently found out about the Data Storage Industry Wiki. From a business perspective, this is pretty cool. They talk about trends and big picture stuff, and there are many good links to useful resources and smart people. Good stuff; relevant.

  14. Yea I won't lose that... by djtachyon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have a hard enough time keeping track of my cd's ... as if I won't lose something the size of a quarter.

    --
    "What's the use of a good quotation if you can't change it?" - Doctor Who
  15. Re:Hmm by joecr · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well for Cds, DVDs, HD-DVD, & Blue-Ray it is all about one single laser beam that doesn't get split.

    With Holographic memory it is a question of a beam being split then both beams being pointed to the same spot. So to be Holographic memory you need the beam to be split then to hit the same point at different angles.

  16. Don't make them too small, dammit. by WWWWolf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a belt bag for my Nintendo DS. I keep six GBA games on the side pocket. GBA games are small enough, yet not too small, easy enough to handle. But currently, I'm keeping one Nintendo DS game in the console itself and keeping the others in my bag in the retail packages. DS games are much smaller than GBA games. I keep worried that I might lose them. I'm trying to come up with a decent, safe enough solution. (Let's see if I can find my old wallet that had all those pockets, that ought to do the trick...) I always get the same sort of worries with memory cards, SIM cards, etc...

    The point is, the smaller the storage media comes, the easier it is to lose.

    I'm all for 1 cm disks, as long as they come with a caddy that is half the size of a 3.5" floppy.

  17. Two techno-blog editors are sitting in a bar.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Techno-blog editor one: What time is it?

    Techno-blog editor two: Time for another Holographic Storage article!

    ----
    I suggest a moratorium on Holographic Storage articles until some device is actually shipping from the factory floor!

  18. Re:Hmm by Tyger · · Score: 2, Informative

    Holography is about more than just using 3 dimensions of space to store something. It's specifically about a technique that involves generating an interference pattern between a coherent source of light split into two crossing beams. By that nature, it stores data in 3d. CD type optical storage is still a surface storage medium even with multiple layers. It just focuses the beam onto different surfaces.

  19. 1 GB on a fingernail. by RonTheHurler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hmm. 50 GB on a CD seems like a no-brainer considering what I just bought today.

    I got one of those new "chocolate" cell phones. Cool. It takes a Micro-SD memory card, so I went to my local computer superstore to get one.

    A one GB micro-SD memory card cost me $74.00. I'd never seen one before, and when I opened the package I was afraid the wind would blow it away. It's litterally smaller than my little fingernail and about as thick as a potato chip. A 7x7 grid of these cards would be 49 GB, and easily fit within the bounds of an ancient 1.44 MB floppy disk case. Hell, you could fit three or four layers of 7x7 grids of these things in that case.

    Ok, so $3626 might be a bit pricey for a movie disk, but the technology is there. It's just a matter of price. Remember, all the features in this $149 cell phone would have cost well over $Ten Grand thirty years ago and would have required a suitcase full of hardware too.

    I predict than in 20 years or less, we'll have terrabytes on disks the size of a quarter.

    -----

    http://www.trebuchet.com/ - where the past opens doors to the future.