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Has Anyone Seen the Moon Pictures?
NASA has received a lot of bad press in the last few years. Now in a stunning move to prove how much they have learned from past mistakes, it appears they have lost the magnetic tapes that recorded the first moon walk. They also seem to have misplaced the original recordings of the other five Apollo moon landings. Hopefully nobody has taped an episode of "The OC" over them yet.
Don't have time to double check but at first glance this appears to be a dupe:
1 3/1654200
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/
I can see it coming now... a tinfoil hat brigade shouting,
"that's because we never WENT to the moon!" and
"The original tapes would have proved it!"
How convenient, almost as if we never landed on the moon at all.
they are doing a horrible job of silencing the conspiracy theories.
"Ok, I have this original video with the first man on the moon, should I make some backups? Nah... Is it important that I remember where I put it? Nah..."
I guess the difference is that the Beeb never really thought these things were historically important, and hence had poor archiving rules. You'd hope that this was not the case at NASA.
Nah you know what NASA folks are like with forgetting to convert things... it's actually sitting in a box on betamax, nobody wants to admit it.
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
With remakes being the rage in Hollywood, this shouldn't be a problem at all...
"Houston, we have a problem..."
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
What we actually did was build studio on Mars, where it was easier to fake lunar conditions. I'm sure the original tapes would have shown this clearly.
KFG
What technology should I use if I want to make sure my video and photos of today is around for my great-grandchildren? (Assuming they care...) Is there a service that will keep them continually updated in a lossless digital format? How would they get paid?
J'aime mieux les méchants que les imbéciles, parce qu'ils se reposent. -- Alexandre Dumas
Logic, macros, and more
Goddard has been undergoing some organizational restructuring over years. That means office shuffling and renovations here and there. It often involves spring cleaning of all the junks piled up on top of shelves and cabinets.
My guess? Some old geezers probably had thrown them away into a garbage bin. It's probably got dumped into some industrial dumping site in New Jersey or somewhere... that said, it's SOL to me.
[I saved one optical disc from a garbage bin once...I'm sure it contains some IUE data, not the moon landing stuff... there is no way to read the damned thing anywhere to be sure...]
How could this be misplaced! This is arguably one of the greatest human accomplishments ever!
P.S. Let the flame wars begin!
PPS The Armstong moon walk is proably my earliet memory,and I remember watching it with my great Grandma who was born before the first auto and airplane.
..........FULL STOP.
Bottom line is this, we went to the Moon! If you truly believe that it was a hoax, please read this - and then for the love of FSM, get off the ADD drugs and re-evaluate...
I'm not fat, just big boned...
Your post advocates a conspiracy theory which is
( ) paranoid
( ) delusional
(x) impossible to confirm
(x) impossible to refute
Specifically, your theory fails to account for
( ) Stupidity of the general population
( ) Stupidity of the politicians
(x) Lack of supporting evidence
(x) Plenty of contradictory evidence
(x) Lack of a centrally controlling authority for conspiracies
(x) The facts can be explained without need for real conspiracy
(x) Scientists generally don't participate in conspiracies
(x) Failure to mention the Illuminati
and the following philosophical objections may also apply:
( ) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever been proven
(x) That's what they WANT us to think
Furthermore, this is what I think about you:
( ) Sorry dude, you're batshit crazy
(x) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your house down!
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
I found it. NASA can thank me later.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
FTA: "But the searchers may be running out of time. The only known equipment on which the original analogue tapes can be decoded is at a Goddard centre set to close in October, raising fears that even if they are found before they deteriorate, copying them may be impossible."
Is the article honestly trying to suggest that NASA couldn't reverse engineer a format and design a player for it if the original player was lost? I personally find that a little hard to believe. It just sounds like a convenience excuse to create a "give-up searching" date. In my oppinion these tapes are very important to our country's history. It's almost shameful to me to think they could have lost them so easily.
Go America!
Tonight is full moon actually, so it should get stuck somewhere in the trees.
Surely NASA can arrange for some pictures in my garden?
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
You can still watch it and the material is everywhere, the problem is just that the original tapes were lost, which is a bummer, but not a huge bummer to me. It would've been nice to see some higher res footage of it than what we have now.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
I was recently at a meeting in Bethesda at the NIH and heard Don Lindberg, the director of the national library of medicine talk about long term information storage.
After going through all the normal stuff about media degrading and backups, etc -- he made a really interesting point: The only way to really ensure REALLY LONG storage - like tens of thousands of years is to keep having people accessing information. The point he made is that all the storage technology will continue to evolve, and it's only the information we stop accessing that will fall into danger of getting lost.
I thought it was a good point.
Why on earth do we not have access to the original data from the Moon landings? If we did, lots of people would have a copy around. Silly secretive state.
We better hurry and send him back up to redo it.
Table-ized A.I.
NASA isn't an archival institution, so it's not surprising that something like this would happen. If tapes are found, they should be turned over to an organization for which the archiving of printed and recorded material is one of its central missions.
On the other hand, I am so tired of all these so-called "conspiracy theorists" who are making a conspiracy out of things that were NOT a conspiracy. I mean, look at what these poser conspiracy theorists are making conspiracies out of.
The poser conspiracy theorists will give you a bullsh*t conspiracy to keep you occupied from the real conspiracies that are occuring. Here is just some of the events they are sensationalizing into false conspiracies.
- The moon landing
- 9/11 (for pete sake! It was only five years ago!
- The Davinci Code
Now here is a list of unsolved mysteries and nefarious plots that are true conspiracies becausse no one wants to admit that they are occuring.- Peak Oil and Gas Prices (This one needs the most attention right now.)
- Big Brother and soulserveilance
- Corporate backrubs for governments/New World Order/World Trade Organization
- Suppressed technology and cures. (Marajuana does not count!)
- Subliminal Advertising. (for example: "Head on! Apply Directy to the Forehead" x3)
- Extraterrestrial Life (SETI needs your help BTW! The government is cutting their funding again.)
- The Kenedey Assassination
- Where's Jimmy Hoffa?
- Protecting the Earth from ourselves. (Bibles and Bombs do not mix!)
- Occult and paranorma phenomenon
I would recommend that the world spend a little more time tending to the second list and not the first list. But hey, people are stupid. They'd rather watch TV and let TV dictate what they should think. (I'm talking to you, Mr. I-watch-Fox-news-four-six-hours-in-the-evening.)Everyone else needs to put their glasses on and see the truth.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
NASA's new motto: "What? and you're perfect?"
For sale: Parachute. Used once. Never opened. Small stain.
"And I say that with zero emotional attachment. Not believing that we went to the moon doesn't give me a membership in a tinfoil-hat brigade."
Maybe not a tinfoil hat wearer (signifying paranoia, really) but you're a card-carrying member of the club of crazies like Erich Von Daniken, scientologists, Richard Hoagland, and creationists.
Why do supposedly smart people believe such stupid shit?
Indeed the posting of this as "we never went there anyway" even as a joke angers me. You'd think that after almost 40 years someone would spill the beans on the supposed secret? Well guess what, THERE WAS NO SECRET TO BE KEPT and even _if_ there was some way to bring idiots like you back in time, put you on a rocket, and land you on the moon, you'd still claim it was a movie set. There is no educating people like you because you will never admit that humanity is ever capable of doing extraordinary things. You'll attribute the Pyramids to space aliens and the Moon landings to fiction instead of the feats that people are capable of.
It's called denying reality, assuming the worst of everyone, and willful stupidity.
--
BMO
Just imagine the first landing on Mars, and the "lost video" message that will go with it some 100years later...
:)
NASA used a special high quality encoding scheme, which was not widespread in those days. In addtition it was protected by a DRM made by company "x", which went bankrupt some 30 years ago... well we have the file, maybe we could even reverse engineer the DRM, but it's illegal because of DMCA.... Sorry dudes, the recording are lost forever because we need to protect the copyright holder rights
It's the one marked Buzz Aldrin: 1956 Wedding Tape.
He'll never forget taping over that one...
Task Mangler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUkwr-KXa98 Looks like the real deal. ;)
Seriously, that's the great part of digital media and what give it longevity. You don't make things last by trying to put them in a format that will last forever and tuck that away, you just copy them to new formats perodicly. CD or DVD will work fine for now. Copy them to one of those, make 4 copies. Put 2 copies each in two seperate locations, maybe two in a bank safe deposit box, two at home. Then, just remember to refresh the backup. I'd do it a minimum of once every 5 years, or when you get a new, better storage technology, whichever comes first. Make sure to hand that off to your children, and so on. Then, no matter how far in the future it is, the data will still be there.
I mean in reality, the CDs would probalby last many decades when stored in a climate controlled dark place, like a bank, but that's not the real problem. The problem will be in 100 years, CD-ROMs will be something for antique collectors or data recovery shops only. Everyone else will be on some format probalby yet to be developed. So not only does your refresh make sure the media doesn't die, it also makes sure it's current technology.
Same thing with file formats. Who knows how long those will last, but you can update them, as necessary. If DV falls out of favour for some new video techonology, you can recode your videos to that, no problem. There will be plenty of time when both formats are widely available. However 100 years down the road, it might be a real feat to find software that understands DV.
That's the way to do it, if this is something you really care about. We aren't talking a lot of labour here, and we aren't talking something you need to do often.
I have data on my harddrive from 15 years ago, it's just been copied and recopied, old papers I wrote. They just get copied to a new drive when I get one, and to my backup drives. When a new version of Office comes out, I convert them to the new file format. In doing this, I'm likely to never lose them.
Just use the advantages of the medium. Digital makes perfect copies, the copies are cheap, they are high density, and you can translate from one format to another. That means you solve the permenance problem by recoping and the destruction problem by having multiple copies in different locations.
It's cool. George Lucas took 'em -- he's going to add the things that he couldn't add the first time because of budget constraints. They'll resurface in a couple years complete with better special effects and a new ending where the Ewoks dance with Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldren.
is here
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Sorry, dude, but if all the evidence convinces you that it was faked, you either are certifiably paranoid, or you're just too stupid to understand it.
And I say that with zero emotional attachment.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
You are having a laugh, right, and trolling us?
I've looked into the arguments that the moon landings are fakes. Every single argument that has been made has been countered, without exception.
For example, no stars in the pictures from the moon? Well, there wouldn't be - stars are very faint, and the exposure time for the film was insufficient to allow them to be seen.
Objects appearing to be over the top of the etched markings on the pictures? That's image-bleed caused by slight over-exposure - a well known photographic problem.
The flag waving? Well, of course it's going to wave when it's being moved around, that's simple physics, and will continue to wave for a while since there's no atmospheric resistance to help stop it.
And so on.
The simple reality is that it would have been harder to convincingly fake the moon landings than to go there.
One of the unique realities of living in the area of Huntsville, Alabama (MSFC) is that you get contact with people who are actually doing things. If you make the right contacts, you know who and what is going on. Here is what is going on regards to NASA and the original data from the Apollo missions. More precisely what has gone on.
The US officials at NASA ordered the destruction of all of the records associated with the Apollo Missions after the last flight to the moon. The Chief of the Records realized how stupid this was and he conspired with certian persons to have some 8 tons of records moved to a secured location with persons in custody who would not tell where the records were or admit they existed. The reason I know of this is that I had extended contact with the man who set this up. The reason he told me was that the discussion of returning to the moon was coming up about 8 years ago and NASA sent a some men out to see him asking if the rumor was true that he had done this and where they could get the records. He told them it didn't exist but on my arrival he was spitting mad at the idiots at NASA over wanting the records. He feared that they might be destroyed if NASA got them again. He felt they were priceless historic documents and that they must be protected. I do not expect them to appear for 100 years or more due to this.
Contained in these records are films, data stores, and all of the technical documents for operation of the Apollo System. Why these were ordered destroyed he felt was a very malicious act. The real reason for the order was that the US Government at the time wanted to destroy the ability to return to the moon any time in the near future. They possessed about 5 rockets able to go and they wanted nobody able to operate them. The also did not want any more able to be fabricated. This discloses international agreements that involved the USSR and other parties that demanded the destruction of this data.
Believe this or not if you will but this is in fact what happened. This discloses the very dirty nature of the behavior of some "well respected" parties in the world. I cannot hope to have people on this forum believe me, but maybe some will. The reason I was present was I was working as RN at the time and I was making Home Health visits 2 times a day to the home. Frankly I was more trusted than the NASA people by this former high ranking NASA man. My experience with such men has included former German Rocket Scientists and many others. When you meet these people you learn what has really gone on.
This man who was the chief of the record keeping for the Apollow program told me how a year before the Sputnik launch the President of the United States had ordered the entire US Army Missile program lab at what is now Marshall dismantled and taken to the dump. When the Sputnik launch panicked the Americans, He and others had to go to the Base Dump and with their own money buy back the "Scrap" equipment in order to get the lab going again. Even the first test stand they built was built this way. It is now an historic monument!
The description of some details here is slightly modified so as to keep some nasty people off the trail and to protect the records. The title of the position the man held is descriptive but not the real title. I am not sure if this man is still alive and I don't want to cause him or his associates any trouble. There have been several attempts to secure these records to have them destroyed over the years since 1973.
Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
Don't worry, I've found the original Moon film on ebay!
I knew NASA's funding was desperate, but I didn't know it was that desperate!
if these tapes have been in some very rich person's "personal museum" for the last several years, the result of a quiet and large payoff to someone that had access to the archives. Things like this don't just "disappear", they "grow legs".
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
The moon has an orbital radius of 384,400 km. The radius of Earth is 6370 km. If you want to try and see the lander bits we left, they are probably on the scale of 2 meters.
From the surface of Earth: 2 meters at a distance of 378,030 km subtend an angle of 5.29 x 10^-9 radians. The angular resolution of the human eye is about 1/60 of a degree, or 2.91 x 10^-4 radians.
So, just build yourself a telescope with a 55000X magnification and you should be all set.
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
WHy is everybody saying the moon landing was fake? Here at the cradle of aviation museum we have a moon lander straight from gumman that was supposed to land on the moon but was canceled. This wouldnt even be there if the program was fake. Here at the Library that I work at one of our patrons was one of the project jheads at grumman for the moon landers. This is not fake. I have living proof here that its not. Why do people keep mentioning this?
Buzz shot first.
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
Funny thing: An old colleague of mine recently recovered some old research data from punched plastic tape (coated paper, actually) that we used to input the CDC-160G back in the mid-60's. Barcoding has an even higher reliability, and can be coded for error correction. It's probably not as space-efficient as what we have now, but my mom has tape measures from the early 1800's that are still readable. Maybe we should print the data in barcode on fabric?
"The mind works quicker than you think!"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I recall visiting the Space Center in 1996. What struck me most was the delapidation. The buildings were 1966 vintage; rot and decay was everywhere. It looked like a trailer park in its last days.
NASA has been villified for decades for being bloated and wasteful. Nice try, space haters, but they have been performing wonders on pennies for decades. They probably don't have the money to manage old film inventory or have redundant security features.
And a HUGE, HUGE problem is that the people who know where everything is were canned for budgetary reasons. They have little institutional memory. (a miniature model of the same problem which afflicts all our institions as they trim the "fat" and lose their history as the old timers go out the door, pensionless.)
"Not believing that we went to the moon doesn't give me a membership in a tinfoil-hat brigade."
... ignorant ... at best. A few years ago, Fox showed some 'documentary' that claimed that there might be evidence the moon landing was a hoax. Every single point of the 'evidence' was EASILY refutable. For example: They claimed that the astronauts were too brightly lit and that the extra light must have come from studio lighting. They even had a 'professional photographer' come on the show and say that it was impossible for that sort of lighting to occur. This 'professional photographer' was completely ignoring the fact that light bounces, even on the moon.
... pardon the expression ... looney. But in the future, I'd recommend that you clarify your views. Too much attention has already been paid to people who have bastardized science to prove their over-zealous point.
Back up a sec, this dude may have a point. The reason that the negative attitude exists for people who believe the moon landing is faked is because the rationale that has been publicized for this is
You'd have to be pretty ignorant to buy in to their logic. That's why, if you just announce that you don't believe it happened, it is generally assumed (whether it is right or wrong, sorry.) that you are part of this little group. If you are simply saying "I wasn't there, so I cannot say for certain", then I think that's a different story. I can sympathize with that. I wasn't even alive when the moon landing happened. In that respect, I cannot actually say it did. Fair enough.
I think the mods were a little too quick on the trigger with modding down your post. You are right that simply not being 100% certain that the moon landing happened doesn't mean you're a
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
can't they just make some new films? They probably still have the old sets and costumes.
I would have thought all the video recordings from the moon missions would have been loaded to Google Video by now. Perhaps NASA was in the process of preparing the files for upload when they discovered they don't actually have the files...
Actually, this event illustrates the conundrum that we are all presented with in this digital age. In the analog age we were accustomed to the loss of old data--it really had little value to the general population. Sure, we had a box of photos of vacations and relatives and such, a wedding album, maybe a voice recording or super-8 film. We relied on historians to do the digging and to present the past to us. People lived shorter lives and when they died they didn't leave behind much data that couldn't be easily divvied up among survivors--photos, keepsakes, mementos.
That's all changed, and with the boomers entering the end game, habits will change.
Today we can easily capture and keep quite a lot of data in a tiny area. It may not be evident just how many gems are saved on the deceased's computers, or portable devices, and how much time will it take to sift through it? It's not a group activity where you can sit with mourners around a box of photos, dig them out and tell stories as you hand them around.
Do we just shut off or reformat and not bother to look? Maybe it becomes a task assigned to one trusted person through a will--to "sift throught the data, share the gems and destroy the porn", before reformatting the system.
Maybe it falls to the elderly to email out to others the digital items they treasure, so that the burden is spread around.
So, I keep an old scsi hard disk from an early Mac because I think that disk has a voice recording I captured of my daughter. Some day I want to mine that disk and recover that sound. The physical disk is of no value to others as it sits collecting dust, and is always at risk of being thrown out.
I think the experience at NASA is probably repeated among us all quite frequently.
What I find funny about the faked lunar landing conspiracies is that the arguments are all based what would have been glaring oversights on NASA's part.
So I'm supposed to believe that these guys were extremely meticulous in recreating a lunar environment they'd never even experienced, but were so inept they didn't notice inconsistent photos, improper lighting and various other problems.
It just goes to show that regardless of how overwhelming the evidence may be people will go right on believing whatever they want.