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Zune - Microsoft Killer or Next Apple Victim?
prophet asks: "Now that we have all seen the new Microsoft 'Zune', and the suits over at Microsoft have seen fit to inform us of a whole line of 'Zune' related hardware and software products, my real question is, will Microsoft be able to de-throne the ever growing iPod phenom? With the current confirmed 'Zune' prototype photos dispersed throughout the net, it is hard to see how Microsoft has thought that the current design of the 'Zune' is in fact enough in its current form for users to be pleased aesthetically, and at the same time impressed by ease of use. At the current moment, rumors are circulating of a redesign of the controls on Microsoft's part before a complete release. With the current aesthetical design of the Zune, will it appeal to the masses in the way the iPod did? More importantly, does it appeal to you?
Zune - Microsoft Killer or Next Apple Victim?
What, if anything, does that have to do with the content of the article?
I doubt that Zune will kill Microsoft, although it does seem like it will be largely ignored.
Apple's too entrenched in the audio-player market. Microsoft should pick a new territory to explore, and firmly establish themeslves in if they want to compete with apple.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
When Microsoft leans to design towards waht consumers want instead of dictating to consumers what they want, they'll be able to take on the iPod. Unfortunately, to most people in their target demographic Microsoft nows stands for bad design, shoddy products, and unhip stodgyness.
It's not stupid. It's advanced.
Microsoft has spent too many years chasing after corporate/enterprise appeal, whereas apple has always worked to maintain a hipper, more artsy appeal (which is all the macs have now they're intel-based, but I digress). For that reason, apple had a better idea of what the kids want, and the kids were more receptive to the ipod than they're ever gonna be to zune whatever.
In short, MS has neither the credibility, nor understanding of what the market they're selling to wants (unless you consider "their market" to be the content industry, as opposed to consumers). It won't kill MS, but apple has no reason to loose any sleep either.
Well, let's consider its features.
1.) It has wireless.
2.) It has more space than a Nomad.
So this thing should be good to go!
Just like they've done with many other products (e.g. XBox), they'll persist until they build a brand in the market. Apple certainly doesn't have much to worry about with their first iteration, but its probably bad news for a lot of the second tier players. Over time, they'll apply more pressure to Apple.
One question (with a rather obvious answer) is "do you see Microsoft exiting this market once they enter it?" Microsoft rarely concedes defeat; they just release a new version.
1. It will be ugly
.. if it does the GPS software will suck and not be comparable to tomtom.
2. The interface will suck
3. It will have buttons
3. It will have buttons on top.
4. The LCD will be crapppy, too dim and low res
5. The LCD will not be widescreen
6. It will not be touchscreen, or the touchscreen UI and scrolling will suck
7. The touchscreen won't sink to allow you to click
8. It will not have TV or HDTV out
9. It will not have TV or HDTV in (to record)
10. They won't allow third parties to write interfaces to access the music store.
11. It will be hard as balls and not free to upload your own content for sharing wiith others (ie, it wont have youtube)
12. They won't license the Xbox to HDTV manufacturers to sell integrated units, so Zune won't be attachable onto HDTV units. (Btw, why doesnt sony sell PS3 HDTV units?)
13. It won't have GPS
14. The UI will be unresponsive, slow, and unreliable.
15. You will not be able to run your own applets. If you can, you will need antivirus which will slow it down. It wont come with even basic arcade games.
16. It will be longer in at least one dimension than the iPod
17. Battery life will suck and not be replaceable.
18. It will not be at least 25% cheaper than the iPod.
19. Apple faboys will 'dis it everywhere
20. Zune developers don't read slashdot, engadget, or other relevant websites. They are developing Zune solely for money, not because they can make a better more useful device.
People buy iPods just because Apple stuff is overhyped. There already are better players on the market already (like the Gigabeat). And to those people, Microsoft sounds uncool. Either you have a iPod or macbook, or you're not "in". Steve Jobs would poop in a bag and put an Apple logo on it, and they'd rush to buy it at inflated prices - and then praise it... It doesn't matter how good or bad zune is, you just can't compete with that.
It's not flamebait, it's just the sad truth.
$5 says the DRM prevents you from playing any music that wasn't downloaded from "zunetunes" or whatever. this would include the itunes that even the ipodless use, as well as ripping their own collections.
I think the zeeky bomb needs to pay a visit to microsoft and sony. ZEEKY BOOGY DOOG! *explodes*
You're gonna need it.
It won't succeed. They are aiming after something that is WAY too popular and extremely well designed. To get people off the iPod, you're going to have to pass it and that will be very tough with current technology (especially batteries).
But let's talk about the BIG feature. Let's talk about something people have been wanting from the iPod for quite a while. Let's talk wireless. People say Zune will be able to buy and download music wirelessly.
It won't.
I read a report earlier today that said that was a misunderstanding and that basically the wireless functionality was to let you see what OTHER people with Zunes in the area were listening to. I read a little blurb that one of the low end MP3 player makers was looking at doing the same thing (only not using WiFi for it). Or are we supposed to surf the 'net on this thing too? Guess what, my PDA does that. So does my phone. And my DS. And my PSP. And my laptop. And that desktop over there. And...
That is a BIG difference between telling people what you're listening to and buying new music.
And I'm not surprised. To do that would require a ton of power. The WiFi on my Dell Axim X50v eats up battery life, that's why it's off unless I'm using it. You'd have to do the same thing, which would somewhat defeat the "buy music any time" idea. Plus, when downloading music (lots of data!) it would use a large amount of battery. You want wireless headphones instead? So do I! But then you have to keep bluetooth running which will use up power. Plus your wireless headphones are expensive and need batteries. Two sets of batteries to recharge and fail for the price of one!
Watch TV/Movies? The iPod does it.
Look at the proposed updates to the iPod. A touch screen? That's a little pointless (unless they make it into the new Newton).
And let's not forget the iTMS lock-in problem. The people who spend the most on iTMS are probably the ones you want most (because they will buy from you/your partners). But they are also the ones with the most to lose from abandoning the iPod. So you have to give away free music for every song that they bought. Fun logistics there. And you don't think the RIAA will let you do that for FREE do you?
Bob has $200 in iTMS music. He moves to Zune. MS gives him his music in their DRMed format. They just paid the RIAA the same "taxes" as if he spent $200 with them. Don't forget the hardware probably isn't high margin (like the iPod) and may even be close to even (so it's fancier for the $$$ compared to the iPod). You just lost money on that customer. What a way to make money!
Until DRM gets outlawed, Apple somehow screws up royally, or batteries improve enough to allow some of the features not useful now (wireless, longer movie playback)... Apple will remain on top.
Their position is just too strong (combined with MS's history) for me to think that Zune will change anything in the market any time soon.
PS: I have heard Zune will abandon "Plays For Sure" for something else. Considering MS did that, I'm sure that the successor will be supported for a LONG time. Sheesh.
PPS: Changing DRM to force everyone to buy a new player. Not something I can see Apple doing. MS might be considering it (given their market share is much lower but still...)
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Gizmodo had some speculation about the Zune being audio only atleast at launch. If thats founded then I doubt its going to be any kind of threat to the iPod.l -probably-be-audioonly-at-launch-192166.php
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/microsoft/zune-wil
So good for Apple.
That said a lot of my friends HATE the iPod. Two have had the battery die, one has had the HDD crap out and most recently one tried updating the nano's firmware and paperweighted it. I'm sure there are atleast some people who are sick of seeing everyone and their mother sporting white earphones - these will be people who buy the Zune. Maybe my experience is atypical but I seem to e witness to a rather high failure rate for iPods.
But why haven't they bought the iRivers or Creatives or Sansa's you ask? Well I have a niftly iAudio X5L from Cowon (battery life on this thing is pretty upsurb and I can personally vouch for it being atleast 25 hrs even with some Video watching) and when some of them asked me about it we just got into a discussion about the advisability of buying electronics from "unheard of" manufacturers. Yes some of them had not heard of Creative. Then again I don't think any of them ever research any electronic device they buy... and they certainly don't read Slashdot. Microsoft by contrast everyone has heard of. And honestly I don't hear complains about them outside of Slashdot though I have a lot of them myself. So don't count the Zune out yet. The Wifi is a good idea.
Discalimer-I'm an Apple hater, forget just the iPod. I hate Microsoft too but (surprise! no really) less. I'd like neither of these companies to win. I think a lot of the smaller players have a better players* and (eventually) customers will wise up to that. More competition! More features! More better!
* A lot fo them really need to work on the interface and the sync up software.
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
Just to note - the summary comments on the aesthetics of the interface (which would include both hardware and software parts), but the picture on the article it links to is clearly a picture of a third party online radio player called SiriuCE running on Windows Mobile 5, superimposed on the Zune. You can even see the original site from which the screenshot was missapropriated from http://www.emulamer.com/SiriuCE.html. I don't think anyone's leaked a picture of what the actual Zune software interface is going to be (correct me if I'm wrong), but it definitely won't be Windows Mobile 5.
What's purple and commutes? An Abelian grape.
Microsoft cares about features, Apple cares about implementation. That is obvious in their software, and I'm sure it will hold true for the Zune.
Now I realize that many geeks share Microsoft's blind lust for a long feature list, but the general public wants something that works and is friendly to use. I expect that from Apple, but I'd be surprised to see the same in a Microsoft product.
Microsoft will probably work together a deal with its resellers such that whenever you buy a licensed copy of a Microsoft OS (such as with a PC purchase), you'll get a Zune for free. Apple is already doing this for students purchasing a MacBook (free iPod Nano *after rebate). It's the same line they took against Netscape Navigator with Internet Explorer.
If everyone already has a Zune, why would they want to buy an iPod, right? Or if they've got two Zune's in their family, may as well go with the house-hold licensing for whatever service they'll offer to sell the media, so any other media player purchases need to be Zunes too.
what the hell is a 'junk character', anyway?
...for one simple reason: The ecosystem of accessories that exists for the iPod.
:-)
If you buy an iPod, nearly any kind of accessory you can dream up is available for it. Hell, most of the 2007 model year cars in the U.S. will offer iPod connectivity if not include it standard.
Plentiful software and accessories for Windows is a big part of why Windows remains popular in the face of superior alternatives. Microsoft is on the wrong end of that now.
As a long time Mac user who endured having to walk through the 90% of the local computer store dedicated to Windows crap to get to the few shelves of Mac stuff buried in the back, I have to ask, "How does it feel, fuckers?"
21. It won't have a decen name.
While ipod sounding kind of odd, it also kind of sounded hip when i first heard it years ago. Zune just sounds ridiculous. I can't even imagine saying, imma play this on my zune.
Hmmm... Pie...
Says today in the paper that Microsoft is coming out with an iPod clone and its own version of our iTunes store. I'll wager a signed hundred dollar bill (the kind I wipe my ass with) that their device, like their CEO, will be big, fat, ugly and stupid. And constantly rebooting. And their Windows-based "store" will require a manual to understand it, will have eight zillion icons and pull-down menus on a super-cluttered butt-ugly user interface, and it will bonk out when you try to buy a song. Ooh, Microsoft, I'm so scared.
—sj
It's very European to conjugate verbs for organizations in the plural, so I will not correct your, "That is exactly where Microsoft see their market."
But you can't have it both ways: "Microsoft is waging war"
Call me crazy but it seems to me that over the past few years (OK, a decade or two) innovation (not used in the Microsoft abuse of the word) has taken a back seat in favor of stagnation. Golly gee wow, someone else has manufactured tEh "iPod killer." Wow. What's this, the fifth or sixth MP3 player that is supposed to tank Apple's market share? No thanks, I'll pass.
How about this, instead of trying to garner market share by imitation, do something original.
I guess the polar opposite can be just as bad: cell phones with mandatory cameras, &c. . . .
-ScottMy other sig is a Glock
What about the fact that most of the popular/hyped Xbox exclusive games were rated T or M?
WiFi? Cool! Err wait. I've seen this before, sort of. On my cell phone. Click this link to download $HOT_RINGTONE. Ok, now click this link and you'll start downloading it for real. Ha ha! One more link, I promise. Sucker! 2 more, no joke. And another link thrown in just to piss you off you big purple dork! I can't imagine Microsoft's implementation being much better. Queue up Clippy and suddenly: "It's looks like you'd like to download some music. Would you like some help BecomingEmo PretendingToBeGangstaYouStupidWhiteRichKid or YourHipMusicIsNowOldiesRock." Sorry you weren't logged into Microsoft Zone, click here to retry!
Seriously, that music player looks likes something Baby Jesus crapped out into his menorah. Oh yeah, new DRM that's isn't compatible with the existing partners? Good job Microsoft! Looks like some tactics never change.
Apple's going to mop the floor with `em.
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
Zune will create history. The best MP3 player designed in the shortest period with highest sales when it goes on shelf during 06 holidays. Zune uses .Net compact framework so you can change and twist anything in the smallest development cycle unlike iPod which requires contacting dozens of arrogant hardware vendors.
;-)
ZuneYourCar is something which some ofthe insiders are working on
As much as I hate the iPod / iTunes / iTMS monopoly, I have come to realize:
- There is no iPod killer
- Even if there were, Zune isn't it
The iPod has what Google has - an excellent product with widespread brand recognition. Unless something else comes out that is significantly better (and, let's be honest, all of the competition to date has been lacking in the features that most users care about), the iPod will be king.
Zune won't be compatible with Microsoft's own "PlaysForSure(TM)"... How long will Zune last?
Don't like iPods? Though I can't really see any real reason, it's possible.
Want Ogg support? Samsung seems to have Ogg support in nearly all of their players.
Their pocket OS is still around and now a strong player though in a weak market of PDAs
Weak? Don't you mean destroyed?
That's a good example of how M$ style dominance does not always lead to M$ making any money. They and Intel used their OS "lever" and a slew of lawsuits to destroy Palm and other competitors in that space. What's left over in the US is a bunch of Windoze only crap that has yet to live up to the Sharp Zaurus or even the Handspring Visor. No one's buying it because it does not work right.
They will try to do the same thing to iPod by sabotaging iTunes and Windoze will be worth that much less.
This, more than anything else will kill Microsoft. The only thing that made Windoze worth while was that other people's gadgets would work with it.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Microsoft is definately entering this field way too late. They already allowed Apple to dominate the field. Had they wanted to seriously compete with the ipod, they would have released something a long time ago. Microsoft is much better trying to dominate a new field that Apple hasn't entered, then wasting money on this hopeless endeavor. This, unfortunately, is what leads to companies making products that just copy off each other and provide nothing new.
Klingon Software is not released, it escapes, inflicting terrible damage onto the enemy as it does
I interned at Microsoft this summer (horror of horrors!) and attended an event where Ballmer spoke to all of the interns and recent college hires. There was a Q&A session at the end, and someone asked him about the Zune. He said that at the beginning of this year Microsoft decided that they wanted to enter the music player market. They've been quickly working to pull together a product that they can get out the door before Christmas to start a "customer feedback loop".
He all but said that he knew that the v. 1.0 product was going to stink up a storm and probably get destroyed in the marketplace and the press. However, he said that they wanted to get a product out as quickly as possible so that they could start getting comments from customers and partners on what they wanted. He also made it very clear that they were in it for the long haul, and that he expected to dominate the market by v. 3.0 (or something). He alluded to the growth of Pocket PC and Windows Embedded.
I find iPod to be restrictive and have features misaligned with my needs so the price is too high for what it does give me.
I find Microsoft to be repulsive.
So, no need for an iPlod killer here, I've already got my sight set on better options (http://gp2x.com/product/product.asp comes to mind).
-Tim Louden
CRAP! Some guy at Slashdot knows our marketing plan!
Meh, let's go with it anyway.
I am so smart!
I am so smart!
S-M-R-T!
I mean S-M-A-R-T!
"When something goes wrong with their computer, they don't necessarily blame Microsoft--they blame the company they bought the computer from."
That depends. If it's an exploding battery, yeah they'll blame Dell. If it's a problem they experience with Windows they'll blame Windows - especially if they know friends who have the same problems with a different brand.
www.linuxpenguin.net
One of the big bullet points with apple users when talking about why they like the OSX more than Windows is that it runs Itunes so much better. I love my Ipod, but I run Itunes from a windows box and at least from the mac users perspective am missing out on the whole experience and my interface is just a bastardized version. I havent had any problems and find it rather intuitive but evidently I just dont know better. That being the case, I suppose there is room for an improved experience for those that are windows native.
Boy, that screen looks familiar.
Zune is nothing but a Pocket PC with a hard drive.
I've owned four Pocket PCs over the last 6 years. They've all had MP3 playing support. Most had Wifi support. But they aren't terribly good as MP3 players... the OS is too heavy and complex for a handheld, it very much needs to be treated as a desktop OS stripped down, not something built from the ground up to run an embedded application. It even runs programs by copying them from "file system" RAM to "program" RAM. Very strange beast.
The Pocket PC really had the potential of being an ultralight laptop replacement OS, if Microsoft had kept working on it that way they'd have "Tablet PCs" that really *were* cost-competitive with laptops. But no, they put everything into beating the (already self-destructing) Palm and trying to take on the cellphone world.
They might pull it off, if they can bring back Derek Brown and Beth Goza into the team and pull in some serious iPod geeks and *listen* to what they have to say and *do* it... even if it means drinking their own blood (like Microsoft did when they replaced their own letter recogniser with one that emulated Graffiti).
If they bull ahead with what I'm seeing in those screen shots, though, they're so doomed.
The MP3 player market is very young - so Zune has a shot. Like it or not today's market leaders probably won't be in a few years as the market evolves and hopefully DRM goes out with a whimper.
That said, why you waste screen space with WinCE chrome is beyond me.
-- $G
As a matter of opinion to report in, I *don't* like ITunes.
Didn't we go through the whole suffering pain of being locked into a monopoly? The only format I am fairly sure will be a contender for a long haul is plain Mp3.
MS Dropping their PlaysForSure is typical of the kind of slap when companies act like little children, get bored with their new toy, and walk away. "Let's do Zune now!" No.
I bought my MustHaves from Tower Records, and that's that. At this time I am exploring free and independent music. There's plenty out there.
--TaoPhoenix
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Ok, so your reason for not liking iTunes.... is because you're being locked into a monopoly? And you want to use MP3?
Don't you know that iTunes is a FREE ripper/jukebox/player that can be used without the music store, without an iPod and also supports MP3, including for ripping?
There no DRM unless you buy from the iTMS (which is iTunes Music Store, not iTunes itself). The iPod also supports MP3 too, in case you didn't know.
So, even with your "no DRM, MP3-only" requirements, you could still use iTunes because, you know, it's great all-in-one program (and free).
'This Week In Consumer Electronics' claims to have obtained pricing information from retailers, putting Zune at $299, the same price as a 30GB iPod.
Tough sell?
Looks more like a PDA that specializes in playing music.
I think Microsoft really came on board rather late into the portable music player market. If this had come out several years ago, it would have been impressive. What advantages does it look like it have over the iPod? Just a slightly bigger screen. Oh, and it will probably play DRM encoded WMAs, but big deal, so do half the MP3 Players currently on the market. Apple dominates this market, I mean, just hang out in a Best Buy sometime, and look at how many people come up and ASK for the iPod verses how many people will even LOOK at the Creative music players. And I have an iPod, I am quite impressed with the thing.
No, I doubt the market for this thing will be even as big as the Market for the Creative products. Why? iPod is too well known, so your people who just want a music player will buy the iPod. Those who want something different and to be kinda geeky will be buying the Creatives and Samsungs and stuff. I will be surprised if Microsoft is able to sell more than a dozen units at my local store, whereas they probably sell 2-3 iPods (or more) a day.
By iTunes I refer to the songs purchased there.
I have several third party player devices, upon which I wish to play unlocked mp3s. Tracks purchased from iTunes do not permit this. When playing music on my computer, I use DeliPlayer, or WinMediaPlayer as a backup. I have no need to use an Apple player in a playing capacity without intent to buy from the iTunes Store.
--TaoPhoenix
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
When I clicked this thread and its article, I thought there'd be some new info, but the article is three weeks old. Why does slashdot accept lame stories like this (this one is lame because it's so old), and reject legit ones?
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
Okay, but you should refrain from calling DRM-AAC files "iTunes" (or even the online store, which is the "iTunes Music Store").
iTunes by itself is a program, just like Firefox is a browser. The music store is server(s) at Apple.
I don't know DeliPlayer nor WinMediaPlayer, but you could still give iTunes a go. It rips, catalog, tags and plays music for you. You can even drag'n drop the music from the library onto an external drive (i.e. mp3 player if it maps as a drive) without having to care where the files are stored. You just won't have the iTunes/iPod synergy of smart playlists or automated sync, but it'll work just fine.
The problem is that currently there is no MP3 player market - there is a Fairplay AAC protected player market. As you can imagine, like Highlander there "can be only one".
Until studios start selling MP3's of major songs there is no MP3 player market, not to most poeple buying players. Microsoft's attempt at an end-run around that by offering you copied of all your ITMS songs in the new Microsoft format is interesting but I think too kludgey for the average consumer.
I subscribe to eMusic and like it a lot but I recognize that's not mass market stuff.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...or is that possibly Paul Thurrott? Please mod parent up +5 funny! It looks like Steve Jobs isn't the only one with a Reality Distortion Field.
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
I think what everyone is missing is where the Zune fits in to Microsoft's big picture. They are looking to grow revenues by spreading to other markets. The catch is that with their solid OS market, they can INTEGRATE these markets unlike any other. Live Anywhere anyone? The Zune will play a huge part in that. With the WiFi built in, you may be able to order a song via your cell phone and have it downloaded by your zune, or maybe your Xbox360, or maybe WMP11, or maybe your PocketPC. I can't believe that you all don't see the value (and the foresight MS is using) in having a one-stop-shop (fully integrated). And, unlike most of /. cynics, there are not too many other companies than Microsoft that I would love to see spearheading a project of this magnitude. If this works out, you may just want to buy some Microsoft stock!
It will flop big time; 1) the name zune is not hip at all 2) the design is not hip at all (yes, the ipod has become more of a fashion thing) 3) DRM! 4) Microsoft is not cool a "brand" as Apple.
I had another look! You know, Microsoft is known as a Beige box OS maker, but why is their player Beige?!
I just read an article on Microsofts site about some of the less talked about features of the Zune: -It can connect to your Hotmail account and download all of your spam -It will change the names of your songs at random, just as microsoft does with most of its products (.net>passport>windows live) -It comes with a digital coupon for 5% off the updated hardware required to play the DRM'd music when MS changes the format in two weeks then again right after Christmas! -It will be able to play up to 85% of a song before it 'gracefully degrades'! -It can wirelessly connect to your Microsoft PDA phone of choice and drop its calls so your cell provider doesn't have to take all the heat. -If you flip it over, you can use it as a coaster -The beautiful LCD screen will only get scratched/cracked 50% of the time you put it in your pocket -You can play minesweeper and spider on it!
crap.
Its got Sirius Radio? (looking at the pic) and wireless. What else? Why so secretive? What are they trying to offer us? I'd like to see something that'll hold MP3s and Sirius Radio and all that fun stuff, but not from Microsoft. I would enjoy seeing someone wipe it and put a Linux based OS on it or something to that extent.
... I wish people would stop copying them! I have been most happy with my Toshiba Gigabeat. After I installed the Japanese firmware update and switched the language back to English anyway.