EA Pushes Sony on PSP, Price Cuts Possible

GameDaily reports that EA has been pushing Sony to be more proactive with the PSP. The software giant feels that Sony is 'letting the DS win' by failing to adopt an aggressive strategy for the handheld console. The article mentions a piece run on CNN's Game Over column, where Chris Morris talks about the possibility of a price cut by the end of the year. From the EA article: "'There is a price cut coming in the second half of the year,' said P.J.McNealy of American Technology Research. '[The PSP] has lost momentum. Nintendo has had a great run since it launched the DS Lite and Sony needs to regain some ground.' In the meantime, though, EA has been thoroughly encouraged by the DS and DS Lite and conversely discouraged by the PSP, to the point where the publisher is apparently reconsidering its strategy in the portable market."

Comments

Where are the games?

[MBCook]

I basically regret my PSP purchase. I've played a handful of games. The last game I played that I really enjoyed was Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee which was released a little over a year ago. Me and My Katamari was kind of fun, as were a few of the early games, but by and large I don't feel like I've gotten much in the way of games. What's coming up? Not much. The only two games I am looking forward to are MGS: Portable Ops and Gitaroo Man Lives! (which is supposed to be part re-release/port).

Compare that to my DS. Two or three Castlevania games. Mario Kart. Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time. Kirby. Yoshi's Touch and Go. Wario Ware. Phoenix Wright and Trauma Center. That's what I can think of off the top of my head. Then there is the upcoming Yoshi's Island sequel, the next Phoenix Wright, Mario vs. Donkey Kong, Elite Beat Agents, Kirby Squak Squad, another Castlevania, Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, and I'm sure more.

I feel my DS has been a great purchase and I've gotten tons of play time out of it. I've barely touched my PSP in the last year and I regret it's purchase.

Sony has delivered tons of games on their last two platforms. The PSP is just sitting there. Not many games so far. Not many coming. The seeming killer feature that is to come is old PS1 games.

Re:Where are the games?

[neonprimetime]

My guess: The reason they have no games? They've got their entire staff concentrating on getting PS3 out before the end of the next millenium.

Re:Where are the games?

[Anonymous Coward]

Two or three Castlevania games.

I've only seen one release so far in the US, where were these other Castlevanias released?

Re:Where are the games?

[trdrstv]

Perhaps he's refering to the 3 GBA ones (4 if you count the NES re-issue) that he can play on his DS. Currently Dawn of Sorrow is the only DS Castlevania released, and Portrait of Ruin comes out this fall.

Re:Where are the games?

[Wind_Walker]

Sony is making the same mistake on the PS3 as they are on the PSP. Too much focus on the "extras" and too little focus on the games. On the PSP it was UMD movies (which are about to go the way of Betamax) while the PS3 has it's Blu-Ray. PS3 launch games are sorely lacking, while we just had a Slashdot article detailing the 25+ launch games for the Wii.

It's interesting to note the similarities between Nintendo and Sony with respects to their consoles. NES was good and had lots of good games. SNES was king of consoles, with thousands of AAA titles and lots of third party support. Then Nintendo rode their hubris and put out the N64, and drove away their supporters to the sleeker PS1 and Dreamcast. Nintendo has been playing catch-up ever since - though the Wii has the potential to revolutionize the industry, much in the same way the NES did so many years ago.

For Sony, PS1 was good with a lot of exclusives, and PS2 was king for a lot of the same reasons as the SNES. But Sony has displayed so much hubris in the buildup to the PS3 launch that sometimes I wonder if I've slipped into a Greek morality play. "The PS3 is actually pretty cheap", "We'd sell 6 million consoles even without games", "$599 US dollars", "Giant enemy crabs"... Sony is ripe for a fall.

Re:Where are the games?

[MBCook]

Now that I think about it, you're both right. There was just one. They are all so similar they blended in my mind. Let me make up for that: Tetris DS. There is another great DS game that I got a ton of play out of. Tetris is fun, but online Tetris rules.

Re:Where are the games?

[trdrstv]

I still think you have a valid point. There are currently 5 Castlevania games you can play on the DS.

4 can also be played on the GBA, or GB Player, but that's besides the point. The DS was blessed with a huge backlog of backwords GBA compatible tiles, much in the way the PS2 was with PS1 games.

Re:Where are the games?

[digitrev]

So does that make Nintendo the Deus Ex Machina?

All kidding aside, as much as I hate Sony, I want them to stay in the game. So long as they lose the market share, just enough to make them rethink their strategy. Competition will keep Nintendo on their feet, and a shift of the market will show Sony that people don't care about power. Sony will have to start doing new things, so that they don't go the way of Sega.

Re:Where are the games?

[thatguywhoiam]

But Sony has displayed so much hubris in the buildup to the PS3 launch that sometimes I wonder if I've slipped into a Greek morality play. "The PS3 is actually pretty cheap", "We'd sell 6 million consoles even without games", "$599 US dollars", "Giant enemy crabs"... Sony is ripe for a fall.

Yeah no kidding. I think there was exactly one rationalization for the PS3's price, and it was:
Surely people will pay as much for a PS3 as they will for an iPod.

I think that's all Sony thought.

(Although now that I think of it, the iPod was (and is) nearly universally derided for being too expensive. But I don't think the situation is comparable. Nintendo is the innovator here. They should be charging $600 for those things, heh.)

Re:Where are the games?

[CokeBear]

sometimes I wonder if I've slipped into a Greek morality play. "The PS3 is actually pretty cheap", "We'd sell 6 million consoles even without games", "$599 US dollars", "Giant enemy crabs"... Sony is ripe for a fall.

Don't forget their intentionally installing malware on customer's machines, and continuous pushing of proprietary technology over open standards. I'm amazed that anyone still buys anything from Sony.

Re:Where are the games?

[Bastian]

(Although now that I think of it, the iPod was (and is) nearly universally derided for being too expensive. But I don't think the situation is comparable. Nintendo is the innovator here. They should be charging $600 for those things, heh.)

It's really not comparable at all. For one, the idea that the iPod is universally derided as being too expensive is laughable - if it were really that outrageously priced, why in the world would it continue to maintain >50% market share, especially when it continues to have a number of strong competitors? Consumers aren't that clueless - more likely you're overlooking something in the iPod that others are seeing and then assuming that the rest of the world is also looking at the product through your eyes.

Also, $600 for an iPod is flat-out wrong. According to today's edition of the Apple Store, iPod is really a line of products ranging from the $69, 512MB iPod Shuffle all the way to the $400, 60GB full-size iPod. I'm going to guess that a more accurate picture of reality is that nobody is paying $600 for an iPod (and even when the price was that high, very few people were) and the vast bulk of the sales are for the lower-end versions.

Sony isn't offering a low-end version. If they were to clue in and offer a PS3 without the Blu-Ray player at a dramatically reduced price, I might be willing to think that their PS3 pricing scheme has anything at all to do with the iPod's pricing scheme. But, of course, that isn't going to happen because Sony isn't trying to sell a game system with the PS3. The plan for the PS3 is to use game-playing features to chump people into buying a Blu-Ray player.

Re:Where are the games?

[powerlord]

Don't forget their intentionally installing malware on customer's machines, and continuous pushing of proprietary technology over open standards. I'm amazed that anyone still buys anything from Sony.

That description sounds like MicroSoft, and yet people still buy their products also.

Sony made a mistake with the root kits. They also push technology that they view as an advantage to themselves ... just like every other company (MS, Apple, RedHat). Get over it.

Re:Where are the games?

[Wind_Walker]

Don't forget their intentionally installing malware on customer's machines, and continuous pushing of proprietary technology over open standards.

I didn't mention those things because, well, it has nothing to do with gaming. I'm a gamer - that's what I care about. If a console had a controller that had to be rectally installed each time you turned it on (no pun intended) and would periodically slap you in the face, I'd still buy and use it if the games were good enough. Admittedly, the games would have to be really really good to overcome those deficiencies, but I still would.

From a general standpoint, yes, I care that Sony is a very evil corporation. But when it comes to gaming, I just don't care about their Rootkits or their love proprietary media. I just want to game.

Re:Where are the games?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the ESA wants a fair price market, you see to the ESA it seems as though Sony is letting its portable drop in popularity while it focuses on the PS3, this in turn causes Nintendo to gain a foothold. Also, this group represents software retailers and business which sell software, basically if Sony doesn't start marketing its portable again. All of the stock to which the businesses bought from Sony in order to sell it to consumers will go to waste, effectively creating a business with worthless merchandise.

Re:Where are the games?

[michrech]

That description sounds like MicroSoft, and yet people still buy their products also.

There are reasons for that. There are too many clueless people on earth that don't know there are alternatives to MS, and of the "clueless" that do know, they don't care because everyone *else* they interact with doesn't use the alternatives anyway.

There is also the problem that people perceive (rightly or not) the alternatives as being less feature filled, less supported, more bug-ridden (is that possible?!), slower, etc...

The electronics industry differs GREATLY from MS vs. Non MS software.

Onkyo, Pioneer, Sony, Awia, Denon, and a slew of "generic" or "house" brands all make products (for this example, lets choose a receiver) that do exactly the same things. They all receive AM/FM radio stations, have multiple inputs for different devices, and hook up to two or more speakers.

The same could be said for TV's, VCR's, and DVD players.

The game console market cannot say the same as the parts are not compatible with the competition.

Re:Where are the games?

[thatguywhoiam]

It's really not comparable at all. For one, the idea that the iPod is universally derided as being too expensive is laughable - if it were really that outrageously priced, why in the world would it continue to maintain >50% market share, especially when it continues to have a number of strong competitors? Consumers aren't that clueless - more likely you're overlooking something in the iPod that others are seeing and then assuming that the rest of the world is also looking at the product through your eyes.

I'm not sure what to tell you - this is subjective, but I remember reading numerous criticisms of the iPod's price, and the fact that it was entering an 'already-crowded' market. Not just here on Slashdot, where that sentiment was nearly universal (go look at the thread), but elsewhere in the mainstream tech press.

And yes, consumers are clueless. By any self-respecting nerd measure, almost utterly so. That's not meant to be elitism; its just that most consumers don't know what a rootkit is, for example. Heck, most of the people I talk to with iPods don't even know there's DRM built into the things.

Also, $600 for an iPod is flat-out wrong. According to today's edition of the Apple Store, iPod is really a line of products ranging from the $69, 512MB iPod Shuffle all the way to the $400, 60GB full-size iPod. I'm going to guess that a more accurate picture of reality is that nobody is paying $600 for an iPod (and even when the price was that high, very few people were) and the vast bulk of the sales are for the lower-end versions.

Yes, but my context was the iPod launch, not the subsequent long line of successor products. Originally it was quite expensive - I don't recall exactly if it was $600, but I know it was at least $500. And Mac-only.

Sony isn't offering a low-end version. If they were to clue in and offer a PS3 without the Blu-Ray player at a dramatically reduced price, I might be willing to think that their PS3 pricing scheme has anything at all to do with the iPod's pricing scheme. But, of course, that isn't going to happen because Sony isn't trying to sell a game system with the PS3. The plan for the PS3 is to use game-playing features to chump people into buying a Blu-Ray player.

It remains to be seen whether this would be a good idea or not. We'll see how the Xbox 360 does with that strategy later this year. Personally I think bifurcating the platform is a terrible idea; it runs counter one of the main points of a game 'console'. A better argument is to say they should have ditched Blu-ray altogether.

Re:Where are the games?

[Traiklin]

Well Sony COULD offer a Blu-Ray less PS3 but there is one slight problem with that...The games are only going to come on Blu-Ray.

So if Apple was willing to launch the next iPod for $600 and offer no support for either Macs, Windows, Linux, MP3's, MP4's, AAC and all the other formats (basically unable to play anything you bought it for) at a dramatically reduced price then I could see where the similaritys are.

Sure they could decide to drop another bombshell right now on developers by saying they are dropping Blu-Ray and going with Dual layer discs, now tell me, would you continue making your game with the knowladge of you suddenly losing over 10gb of space (the launch discs are supposedly 23gb in space) and be ok with it, or would you be alittle pissed off that you just lost over 10gb of storage space for your game (meaning now you have to make major cutbacks, downgrade the FMV's, downsample the audio, remove some high quality graphics).

Sure if Sony would of done it in the begining they could of gotten away with it, but we passed that point of no return long ago. A lot of the developers were cought off guard with the controller being just like the PS2 controller just with a tilt function (the Tilt is what cought them off guard), so they would just be giving a massive shove and the finger to developers if they dropped BR support at this point.

Re:Where are the games?

[Bastian]

And yes, consumers are clueless. By any self-respecting nerd measure, almost utterly so. That's not meant to be elitism; its just that most consumers don't know what a rootkit is, for example. Heck, most of the people I talk to with iPods don't even know there's DRM built into the things.

No offense, but most Slashdot members are clueless, too. For example, most of them seem to conveniently forget that it's not just the iPod that is DRM-encumbered. Nearly every major MP3 player on the market supports a DRM-encumbered format. Or do Windows Media files not count?

Or how about that Slashdotters are more than ready to point out that pundits and the media in general are more influenced by fashion than reason when it comes to deciding what product to hound and what product to not hound? Oh wait, they do remember - but only when it's $FOSS_PROJECT that's being derided. And don't even get me started on Slashdot as a source of knowledge about the zeitgeist of the computing world. It isn't, and here's a simple reason - the vast majority of people here on Slashdot are here for the melee. Consequently, vitriol is overrepresented here. Heck, a look through my own posting history shows that that's most of what I do. It only makes sense - I have a stronger urge to voice my feelings when I'm feeling miffed than when I'm not.

Yes, but my context was the iPod launch, not the subsequent long line of successor products. Originally it was quite expensive - I don't recall exactly if it was $600, but I know it was at least $500. And Mac-only.

OK, taking it from there, you're right, the story's a bit different. But Sony's still insane to think there's any comparison. The iPod is essentially a standalone product - you can buy one, and as long as you have a computer with a FireWire (and, later, USB) port and the ability to create MP3s, you can keep throwing music on the thing. (Keep in mind that the battery's long-term survivability wasn't a known issue at the time; knowing that I'd certainly agree that $600 seems crazy.) The iPod didn't need to have any serious command of the market any more than the more pricey brands of other products need to, because all the consumer cares about is that they buy the product and it's done.

The PS3, on the other hand, is more than just a single product. It's also a library of games, which must be maintained until the next generation. To get that, there must be a strong presence in the market, so that game publishers will publish for the platform. It's also a community - the next-gen system with the most people will have a better chance of having a richer pool of users for online gaming. Plus, you can share games with your friends or take a game over to a friend's house or whatever if you both own the same system. If the PS3 only succeeds in getting a tiny share of the market, it can find itself just as any of the other myriad failed home console platforms. Comparing PS3 to an iPod is like comparing a deck of cards to an MMO.

Personally I think bifurcating the platform is a terrible idea; it runs counter one of the main points of a game 'console'. A better argument is to say they should have ditched Blu-ray altogether

My understanding is that the PS3 won't be playing games on Blu-Ray, it'll just be there for movies. Games will still come on DVDs. You're right, if they want Blu-Ray to be a future option for games, bifurcating the system would be crazy. But if that's not the case, it wouldn't really be bifurcating the platform because Blu-Ray wasn't a part of the games platform in the first place.

Re:Where are the games?

[Babbster]

My understanding is that the PS3 won't be playing games on Blu-Ray, it'll just be there for movies. Games will still come on DVDs.

This doesn't conform to the reports I've read. Not only have developers reported that Sony is encouraging developers to make games big enough to require a BR disc, but I've read at least one report (very unconfirmed, and thus not one that I take at face value) that all PS3 games will come on BR discs. The latter seems implausible to me, if only because manufacturing of BR discs is going to be at a premium for a while. But there seems to be no doubt that PS3 games will be coming out on BR, probably at launch.

Re:Where are the games?

[Rayonic]

Yes, but my context was the iPod launch, not the subsequent long line of successor products.

According to Wikipedia, the iPod sold about 800,000 units in the first two years of it's release. The iPod line could grow from there, since it was a new market and they had no major competition (and you didn't have to lock in developers to make content for the iPod.)

But if the PS3 sells that slowly over the first two years, they're dead. It's a mature market, and they have stiff competition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipod#Sales

Re:Where are the games?

[Anonymous Coward]

I on the other hand regret my DS purchase. There are no games. Or at least none of the kind I like to play (fighting games). All the games for the DS are either trashy little mini-games/concept demos expanded and sold as a full game, or RPGs. I stand in game stores for hours trying to find something that's worth playing (and worth the price) and there's just nothing there.

90% of the time I've spent using the thing, I've been playing GBA games - about the only two DS games that held my attention for an extended period were Mario Kart and the port of Worms. Other than that, I have replaced my neat little SP with a brick with a slightly better screen.

And for the record, I don't have a PSP because I refuse to buy from Sony. The imminent release of Tekken (and a decent Guilty Gear port) is somewhat weakening my resolve however...

Re:Where are the games?

[powerlord]

Okay, you start off by saying MS is different, because no one feels they have (or decides) to go with the alternatives. Then you say the electronics market is different, because all the products interact. And you finish off with,

The game console market cannot say the same as the parts are not compatible with the competition.

Which I think means that this is NOT your typical Electronics Industry Product and brings them right back to a comparison with an OS maker. The games are programs, and you can't run one consoles games on another. You have to decide which console you want (or which ones you want), and vote with your dollars (pounds, euros, yen).

I'm not saying Sony is right and we should all yeild to their magnificence, but to say that their arogance is different then MS, is a fallacy only because MS has a much tighter control on the OS marketplace (for whatever reason, and whether they should or not is a seperate issue).

Re:Where are the games?

[powerlord]

Ah. I reread your comments, and realized we were talking about buying "anything" from Sony, and you are right, this part of their product line IS much different than MS, and has to deal with being in a very different market, however:

Sony has a history of 'sleak' product design on par with Apple.

When Palm's handhelds looked clunky, Sony was the first to unveil a palm based handheld with a camera, integrated keyboard, and an on-screen writing area.

The Viao laptops were, for a long time, the smallest, lightest laptops you could buy, and as Sony is proudly stating on their website, the Viao line recently turned 10 years old.

Sony has been known for inovative consumer designs such as the AIBO. Do you need one? No. Do you want one? Maybe. Are you willing to shell out what they want for one? Definately not. Does it stick in peoples minds? Absolutely!

The fact that there is a Sony media group that produced movies people went to see (Such as Spiderman 1 & 2), means that the name gets thrown into the average consumer's head.

Lastly, for the most part, Sony's products have always played well together. When I got my first TV and VCR they were Sony. The VCR remote came with a toggle switch that could be in the TV or VCR position. It controlled the Sony TV perfectly, and meant I could put the TV remote away in a drawer and cut down on clutter. Obviously a universal remote can solve this issue anywhere, but it was a nice touch they included fifteen year ago.

I certainly won't feel constrained to buy Sony when I (eventually), upgrade my TV to 1080p set (just as soon as they become affordable in a few dozen years :D), Toshiba have been putting out nice products (heck my TiVo is a branded Toshiba DVD player also ... again, to save space), as have Samsung (great deals on well made FlatPanel monitors), but writing off a company without even looking at its products seems odd.

Re:Where are the games?

[Espen Skoglund]

Not to sound pedantic, but many/most people seem to be refering to Blu-ray discs as "BR" or "BR discs". According to the official naming convention the correct abbriviation should be "BD". Again, this is not meant to sound pedantic. It's just annoying to see people (and especially tech savvy people like on Slashdot who really ought to know better) use the wrong abbreviation. Reminds me of the whole "CD disc" thing of the ninetees before people started using CD as a proper noun.

Re:Where are the games?

[Babbster]

Not to sound pedantic, but it annoys me when people who know words like "pedantic" can't manage to spell simple words like "nineties."

Re:Where are the games?

[Breakfast Pants]

I bought a new DVD for my living room; I got it all hooked up and everything and now I'm looking for some movies to play on it.

Re:Where are the games?

[ZakuSage]

Good games out now:
Breath of Fire 3
Darkstalkers Chronicle
Daxter
Exit
Field Commander
Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories
Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee
Kingdom of Paradise
Lumines
Me and My Katamari
Mega Man Maverick Hunter X
Mega Man Powered Up
Metal Gear Acid
Metal Gear Acid 2
Monster Hunter Freedom
Ridge Racer
Street Fighter Alpha 3 MAX
Syphon Filter: The Dark Mirror
Tales of Eternia
Tekken: Dark Resurrection
Twisted Metal: Head On
Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth
Wipeout Pure

Potentially good games coming out soon:
Every Extend Extra
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories
Gunpey
Jeanne D'Arc
KillZone: Liberation
Legend of the Dragon
LocoRoco
(already out in Europe) Lumines 2
Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops
Monster Hunter Freedom 2
Mortal Kombat: Unchained
Power Stone Collection
Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters
Ridge Racer 2
Silent Hill: Origins
Ultimate Ghosts 'n Goblins
WTF

Re:Where are the games?

[ZakuSage]

Woops, that's LocoRoco that's already out in Europe not Lumines 2.

DS would make for a great "Sport manager" title

[RyoShin]

I don't know if there are any football games out for the DS already, but I've always thought that the touch screen would be a great way to do sports like football.

On the top screen you would see a normal 3D set-up of the football field with the two teams ready for the hike. The game would pause, and you'd have X seconds (or maybe unlimited time) to use the touch pad to draw out a game plan (as if you were drawing on a chalk board planning plays). You would have defaults and could save custom plays for quick recall, as well.

Once the ball is snapped, you would have the option of "getting dirty" and assuming the role of one of the players while the other players act out your strategy, or you could just let the AI handle it all.

Re:DS would make for a great "Sport manager" title

[Rob T Firefly]

EA could do this for the next Madden port. Whenever you draw one of those doodly electronic football-announcer arrows across the screen, you'd have to say "Boom!" in that butter-soaked John Madden voice.

Re:DS would make for a great "Sport manager" title

[RyoShin]

Oh man, I didn't even think about incorporating the microphone. You could get your team to do better by "Shouting" from the sidelines, or you could do the counting before the hike to select a play.

Or, going with your "BOOM" idea, you could shout "TOUGH ACTIN VINACTIN" to open up hidden features.

Re:DS would make for a great "Sport manager" title

[walnutmon]

What is awsome about the DS is how many games will be great for it. I need a sim city DS, I need a good RPG DS, how about Risk DS?!

Seriously, they can't even keep up with me playing through their games. I need more!

Re:DS would make for a great "Sport manager" title

[Impotent_Emperor]

It's actually "tinactin" not "vinactin". It doesn't really matter, though, because neither are proper words.

Re:DS would make for a great "Sport manager" title

[timetokill]

I actually suggested this to an EA exec and they balked at it, saying "Eh... DS memory... *evasive muttering*... we really think the PSP is the way to go, etc."

strategy?

[MrSquirrel]

"by failing to adopt an aggressive strategy" Sony has let Nintendo win the portable market? Or maybe it's the fact that the DS is an exciting new concept that is geared towards fun, while the PSP is just a rehash of the PS2 in portable form. Aggressive?! Sony HAS been aggressive -- PSP commercials and ads everywhere! I don't think I've seen any DS commercials on television, and the ads I've seen have all been online ones at gaming sites.

Any business major can tell them that success is dependent on the 5 P's -- product, price, place, promotion, people. PSP is same-old-same-old as any other handheld, Nintendo's product is innovative and has 2 screens, one of which is stylus-oriented. Talk about fun! Price -- the DS is quite a bit cheaper than the PSP. Promotion -- PSP beats the DS here from what I've seen. Place -- they're both pretty available... except newegg has been sold out of the DS since it came out! People -- the Nintendo people seem a little slow to jump on the latest graphics and such, instead orienting around fun... sometimes a little too kiddie-fun... but the DS is an example of fun triumphing over "omg megahertz!!!". The Sony people are bastards who put rootkits on music CD's and tout that people will buy their products even if there are no games for them.

Re:strategy?

[AP2k]

That marketing strategy is obviously not universal as I havent seen a PSP ad in about 6 months, vs a couple of DS Lite ads.

Re:strategy?

[Manmademan]

you mean BESIDES the black/white ads that generated insane amounts of controversy, and were all over the news INCLUDING a rather lengthy discussion here on slashdot?

Re:strategy?

[MrSquirrel]

I'm not sure how popular they were in other places, I was just speaking from my experience: I usually only watch Adult Swim + Discovery Channel + History Channel, and those damn PSP ads were all over those stations (the ones with the mice, and the dust-bunnies, and the squirrels... they almost ruined squirrels for me!!!... those bastards).

Aside from the GTA: Liberty City Stories commercials, I never once saw a commercial for a PSP game... or even the features the PSP had... only "it's like cheddar you can play with outside" sub-culture references offensive to squirrels and humans.

Re:strategy?

[joshsisk]

those ads were european only though, correct? from the news coverage, i gathered they were only in certain european countries.

Re:strategy?

[springbox]

I watched one of those PSP commercials and at the end it told me that the PSP was better than carpet. I happen to like my carpet samples more thank you very much.

Re:strategy?

[cowscows]

I saw a sizeable number of those PSP ads, and they pretty much sucked. I don't know how many crappy ads it takes to equal one good ad, but that ratio couldn't possibly be helping Sony.

Games are what sell consoles, everyone knows that. Yet the PSP ads don't tell you squat about the games available. Sony was trying to stylize the PSP, turn it into a cultural phenomenon, like what Apple has seen with the iPod. Unfortunately for Sony, you can't entirely force that image, the product needs to live up to the hype. That was much easier for the iPod, because it does so much less than the PSP tries to do.

That plus the fact that even the coolest looking video game machine still has a reasonably high nerd-factor, and you don't end up with a bunch of people running around with a PSP hanging around their neck like in Sony's early ads.

Re:strategy?

[TheFlamingoKing]

Any ad, if funny or racy or controversial enough, will spread via the Internet quickly now a days.

I heard about that ad within days through standard gaming blogs.

Re:strategy?

[Traiklin]

People -- the Nintendo people seem a little slow to jump on the latest graphics and such, instead orienting around fun... sometimes a little too kiddie-fun... but the DS is an example of fun triumphing over "omg megahertz!!!".

is that really such a bad thing though?

Gaming is supposed to releave stress, give you enjoyment and maybe even make you happy. What better way to do that then making you feel like a kid again?

it's like what one developer said about the genesis collection

"Violent games are getting more popular lately," Rieko Kodama, who helped design the original Alex Kidd games, told us. "A rocket launcher-carrying Alex Kidd just wouldn't be Alex Kidd anymore." Akira Nishino, the director of Ristar and now a studio head at Sega working on next-gen titles, agreed with that sentiment. "As a game creator, I'd love to do another Ristar. But maybe it's best to leave him be. A new game wouldn't feel the same without us using the Genesis' specs."

I used to be one who was just a devotee to GTA, not because of the violence but for the freedoms it gave you but as time went on more and more games were copying GTA but for the entirly wrong reasons. I would rather play a game that is to kiddy then a game that is so over the top with violence that it just get's boring.

When your objective meeter looks something like this:
Objective 1: Kill the guys in red!
Objective 2: Kill the lying bitch!
Objective 3: Spray paint over the rival gangs turf!
Objective 4: Kill the guys in blue!
Objective 5: Steal 100 cars!
Objective 6: Run over 100 people!

it tends to get very very old very fast, yet you give me a game that looks like this:
Objective 1: Smash the blocks!
Objective 2: Collect the coins!
Objective 3: Fight the monsters!
Objective 4: Build a base!
Objective 5: Stop *insert some big thing here*!

I would take that over the "Mega violence cause that's what you people like!" game any day (and yes I know I combined a platformer, RTS & RPG into one) simply because the second one give me more to work with. I can immerse myself into a Fantasy game, with a game that tries to be "Like Life" I don't want to play that cause if I did, I would just walk out the front door.

Now that's not saying I hate GTA or violent games, infact I am glad there are games like that, Why would I want to go out and actually steal a car? what would I gain from it other then a prison sentance? Why would I want to go out and rob/kill tons of innocent people? I gain nothing (other then money and a big as number of people looking for me and a high bounty put on my head) from doing it.

Then you go over to war games, I'm not particularly fond of wars but I enjoy playing FPS because they put me in a place I don't want to ever be, if I die in the game, not big loss. I reload/restart and try again.

but really those things CAN be done in real life, where as Where can I go to become a plumber, get sucked into another world where a Princess is constantly hounded by a big Dragon/Dinosaur (I haven't got a clue what Koopa is, I think a Dragon since he spits fire) and her guards are little mushroom guys that would of been fired decades ago?

or how about where I can team up with a boy in green who seems to be the savior of the world who always seems to have amazing adventures (including one where he looks like he is holding his penis the entire time)?

The whole point of games is to escape from life and get to experiance things you would never do/never consider doing or things you will never get to experiance in the real world.

If I had the choice between Mario & GTA I would go with Mario, Sure it's not as open or long but atleast I will get to do a lot more stuff where I will actually feal the outcome of it (cause what do you really get for killing the innocent in GTA? just find a Pay & spray and the world acts like nothing happened).

Re:strategy?

[Yvan256]

Sony HAS been aggressive -- PSP commercials and ads everywhere!

Oh yeah, the PSP ads... They look like they're made with a company that has a marketing budget of 100$/year, for crying out loud!

I mean, seriously, has Sony completely lost it? Weird "dust balls" talking "gangsta street"-style? Finger puppets theater in a cardboard box?

What's next, Sony?

Re:strategy?

[joshsisk]

yeah, but only people that read gaming blogs will see it. i think the original poster was saying they need to step up their marketing to non-hardcore gamers

now for the ps3

[Anonymous Coward]

Now if only they would start that on the ps3 so it comes out at a reasonable price!

PSP has some nice games...

[CaseM]

But lunch-hour Mario Kart racing on our DS's have us hooked here in my office. People look at us like we're nuts when they walk in while we're saying stuff like "You nuked me you damn jerk...eat my red shells..." but we still have fun. The DS's never fail to draw attention, especially when they make three grown adults behave like we're 12 again.

Re:PSP has some nice games...

[assassinator42]

What do you mean nuked? There are no nuclear weapons in Mario Kart.

Re:PSP has some nice games...

[CaseM]

It's our not-so-fond name for the blue shell.

EA Moving to the DS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sports games with a touch interface might actualy me sorta fun.

Lay out your plays in the next foot ball game just by drawing them and things like that.

Personaly, I am still glad to see the PSP coming in well behind the DS. It showes that I am not alone in wanting a game system that plays games, and can make them interesting, NOT something that can do EVERYTHING!!! (oh, yah I guess we should include some games as well).

Question:

[Firefly1]

One can reasonably ask: 'why would EA (or any other developer) care whether the DS or PSP 'wins' the portable market?' The only answer I can think of is that they've sunk the majority of their development in this vein into the PSP, and as such have an interest in seeing it gain marketshare.
That said, I have a pretty short list of titles which are tempting me to consider buying a PSP:

• Ace Combat X;
• Pursuit Force;
• Killzone: Liberation;
• Metal Gear Ac!d (and MGA2)

If the PSP comes down to $150 or thereabouts, I might go for it.

Re:Question:

[Babbster]

One can reasonably ask: 'why would EA (or any other developer) care whether the DS or PSP 'wins' the portable market?'

I think you're on the right track to some extent by mentioning the money EA has plunked down on PSP development. The corollary to that, though, is that most of the time EA is about the graphical "bling" with the gameplay itself playing a subsidiary role. Considering that, the PSP is far more appealing to a company like EA than the DS because they can stay in their comfort zone.

Taking that thought further, it also means that in order for EA to be top dog on the DS (which they're used to on the PS, the PS2, and probably the Xbox), they have to compete with Nintendo. So far, competing with Nintendo's first-party DS titles is a losing proposition for every company that tries. Even the occasional hit, like Castlevania or Phoenix Wright, doesn't come close to the numbers of Nintendo titles like Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, New Super Mario Brothers and Nintendogs. That's not to say that companies like Capcom and Konami aren't making nice money on their titles, but they aren't likely to ever beat Nintendo's game sales.

I would note, finally, that it seems like there are production issues with DS carts. Trying to find popular, third-party titles like Castlevania, Trauma Center and Phoenix Wright has been extremely difficult (all three have reissues shipping over the next month or so) while, on the other hand, Nintendo's titles sell like hotcakes and store shelves still overflow with their product. It's possible that EA doesn't care for Nintendo's policies in this area and might get better terms on UMDs.

Then again, what do I know? :)

Re:Question:

[Masami Eiri]

Dunno about Castlevania (I see it in stores all the time), but Trauma Center and (I think) Phoenix Wright you can blame on Atlus. They tend to release more niche titles in small quantities. They did the same with Disgaea. Its not a production issue.

Re:Question:

[cowscows]

The PSP is, in many ways, a portable PS2. Porting a big mass of games over to it would be cheap and easy, and would provide decent revenue for very little cost. EA (and many other publishers) has a large library of PS2 games sitting around.

The DS has, in general, found success with new and different games, owing to it's dual screens/touch screen. Porting is still possible, but you're pulling from the N64 at best, and competing with a lot of innovative stuff.

I don't know if EA really cares who wins, but just looking at the economics of it all, they'd probably prefer to have a bigger potential market for the PSP.

Re:Question:

[tuffy]

Phoenix Wright is a Capcom title which continues to get small re-release production runs to cover demand. The second in the series is due for release in "Q1 2007".

Re:Question:

[Babbster]

Well, I've been looking for Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow every time I hit a shop (for example, three different shops this past weekend) and it just isn't around. It's also unavailable ("coming soon/preorder") on Amazon and EBGames/Gamestop.com. I'm quite certain that there are stores that have copies but it seems clear that the overall supply is very limited.

As for the other two, as has already been mentioned, Phoenix Wright is a Capcom game, not Atlus. It's possible that Capcom is simply being conservative about their production, but I've seen many folks on message boards who want the game, so the demand is out there but the product isn't (again, until later this month or early next). I had already put in a preorder at Amazon for both PWAA and Trauma Center and both were supposed to ship this month but, lending a little more credence to my production theory (and I acknowledge that it's no more than a theory), Phoenix Wright was pushed back to September 3.

In short, I really do believe that there are production issues, or at least limitations, with DS games. It wouldn't surprise me at all considering the added complexity (compared to CDs/DVDs) of DS cards and the fact that there are a ridiculous number of games (including some pretty big names, like Final Fantasy [2 games between now and Christmas], Starfox, Pokemon and others) on the horizon for the console.

Sony Dropped the Ball

[J. T. MacLeod]

The PSP, while expensive, was absolutely an incredible system. Too bad Sony didn't care to use it.

Games? Most games suffer from the "portable" curse of generally being very bad products, but that's the developers' fault. A poor analog "nub" aside, this can partly be blamed on third parties, but Sony certainly didn't take any initiative here.

Video? UMD movies failed, of course. But for our own videos we have to deal with low-resolution files that can't be produced by a standard encoder because it uses non-standard headers, and then there's the weird naming scheme that's required. And there's no purpose behind these aggravations except to prevent consumers from using the system's abilities to its fullest extent. Aggravating your customers and preventing them from using your product doesn't win you any fans.

Music? It sounds very nice, but the interface is no better than the cheapest of MP3 players. It doesn't manage your music, but it doesn't allow directories deeper than one level, so you can't organize your music, either. A decent music player interface is *not hard*. They just didn't care.

Network features? How long did it take for a decent web browser? RSS feeds? RSS feeds *that allow you to save anything*? Having these is GREAT, but the fact that it took so long to get them shows us the issues Sony has. But how many games actually have decent online play? 90% of games that only support local play should be able to be played online.

Sony made some great hardware crippled by idiotic management. I feel insulted as a customer. Some where in Sony, there is some one with a lot of vision whose great leaps are constantly struck down by some moron. Find the moron and fire him, and Sony will be OK.

The same thing happened with the PS2. Great hardware crippled by a few moronic decisions (the almost-but-not-quite enough video memory and the absolute failure to make use of network or multimedia features spring to mind). Why should I believe the PS3 will be any different?

Ouch.

[D14BL0]

That's bad when even EA says you suck at what you're doing.

Re:Ouch.

[Anonymous Coward]

EA isn't that bad of a company, they just apeal to the masses and produce sequel upon sequel until they are no longer profitable games. But by apealing to the masses they're a very dangerous company to upset, because without their support your system will not survive long.

One thing that stands out though is that if EA was positive that the PS3 was going to dominate the console market they would (probably) be a little more "tolerant" with Sony's mishandling of the PSP. I'm not implying that they are saying the PS3 is "Doomed" but that they probably doubt that the PS3's success is a sure thing.

Re:Ouch.

[trdrstv]

"they probably doubt that the PS3's success is a sure thing."

When Ken announced it would sell at "$499.00 and $599.00 USD" every rational person questioned it.

Re:Ouch.

[Don_dumb]

But by apealing to the masses they're [EA] a very dangerous company to upset

Surely this article shows that EA are only reluctanly supporting the DS, really trying to support the PSP and yet the DS is still winning the portable race hands down. So perhaps EA are just mad that they have been exposed as not quite so important to the success of a platform as they think they should be?

Open It Up!

[blueZhift]

Sony needs to take a page from what Microsoft did today and open the PSP up to the indie and homebrew community with some good development tools at no cost or low cost. Years ago, Sony did something similar with the Yaroze program, though that was fairly limited. But right now the PSP is really hurting for games and attention in general. They have little to lose by embracing homebrewers rather than continuing the arms race to prevent homebrew software on the console. The PSP's been left for dead by the DS, so they really don't have anything to lose. If they can smoke out a few killer titles from out of nowhere plus the goodwill and publicity, it will be more than worth the trouble of some people playing pirated games on the PSP, which would happen anyway.

A price cut is always nice for the consumer, but the PSP really needs some great games. And a super easy and free direct from Sony way of getting TV shows and movies on the PSP would be great too. The iPod is kicking their butt in that department right now.

Re:Open It Up!

[Abcd1234]

Sony needs to take a page from what Microsoft did today and open the PSP up to the indie and homebrew community with some good development tools at no cost or low cost.

ROFL, I love comments like this... I mean, you actually believe that there's a significant percentage of the video game consumer market that is savvy enough to even consider writing their own games, so much so that you think this will boost sales.

Well, here's a hint: the closest your average gamer has come to programming is probably "coding HTML" on their MySpace page. Face it, the percentage of the market out there who would be enticed to buy a PSP because of homebrew possibilities is probably in the single digits. Now, I know *you* want to hack your PSP, and as such, you'd like to believe everyone else does too, but face it, the majority of people *don't care*.

As for your idea that homebrew on the PSP will somehow result in "killer titles", you should be aware that producing games for the PSP likely requires the same level of capital expenditure as creating a title for the PS2 (in particular, generating creatives for such a platform can be very expensive... it takes a lot of time and money to create all those 3D models, textures, etc). As such, I *really* doubt you'd see anything revolutionary coming out of your neighbour's basement.

Re:Open It Up!

[Shilkanni]

I agree it's not realistic to expect 'killer games' or anything, but it would open up a variety of possibilities. You're going going to see anything like Halo or a flagship title come from fans, but perhaps that's not what the PSP needs. Maybe some simple but fun fan made games would have some impact, or perhaps more likely, applications which would round out the usefulness of the PSP. I honestly don't know much about the PSP because I hadn't even really considered buying one - but someone mentioned it's music management was weak - perhaps several little things like that could improve it's fate. Certainly OSS and independant developers seems to have been more successful producing small-medium scale applications than games.

Fun

[Threni]

> "There's no doubt that EA has historically bet more on PSP. I think we were excited by the
> technology, but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun.

Lowering the price won't make the console more fun though. It will, however, mean that cheapskates like me who can't justify £150 ($283.139 in the US, including tax though)(for the unit with no games etc) might splash out.

DS for the wife

[ShadowsHawk]

I'll be purchasing a DS:Lite for my wife this Christmas. Partially because it has several games that I'd like to play, but mostly because she keeps bugging me about buying one. Ever since she saw a friend playing Brain Age and Mario Kart, she keeps requesting one. To put this in perspective, she doesn't game. Period. According to her, the console controllers are to complex and she absolutely HATES games like 'The Sims'. She sees games that are traditionally geared toward casual gamers as pointless. I've listed off what her main points of reasoning are.

Price
Easy controls
Easy controls
Easy controls
Portability
Size
Fast loads and game play

Most importantly, FUN.

Re:DS for the wife

[trdrstv]

Don't forget Multiplayer with only 1 copy of the game. MANY games use this feature, and use it well. I know several 'couples' who got their own DS so they could play the games they want, and play multiplayer against each other.

If you don't already have a DS or DS-L I suspect after your wife gets one, it's only a matter of time until you do.

Re:DS for the wife

[trix7117]

I was about to post this same thing. The ability to play multiplayer without having to re-purchase the game is great. I bought a DS Lite because I wanted to play New Super Mario Brothers. A week after I had purchased mine (and Mario Kart to go with it) I had to go out and buy the fiancee her own DS so that we could play against each other (as well as each play separate games at the same time. there were some arguments over who got to play when). If we would have also had to re-purchase any games we already had to play multiplayer, we probably wouldn't have gotten the second one. Sure I wish players w/o a cartridge weren't restricted to one driver/kart in Mario Kart, but it's still a blast.

Also, someone else already said this but I wanted to restate it. My fiancee is not a gamer, but she loves the DS. She would play the Sims occassionally, but that was about it. Now, she takes her DS to work to play on lunch breaks and pretty much any other downtime she has.

One last note, it seems like we aren't the only ones that love the DS Lite. I had no problem buying the DS/Mario Bros combo at Costco, but when I tried to buy the second DS Lite I couldn't find one anywhere (this was about a month ago). I went to Best Buy, Target, Fry's, Gamestop, even Wal-Mart(shudder). Fry's had a few of the old DS's, but no one else had any. I finally got one two days later when I swung by a Target and got lucky that they had just received a shipment. Also worth noting that all of the stores I checked had tons of PSPs on their shelves.

Re:DS for the wife

[ShadowsHawk]

How did I not know about this?? Thank you!

Re:DS for the wife

[trdrstv]

Most games are more limited with only one copy, but are still very fun. Puyo Pop is full featured multiplayer for up to 8 people, with 1 cart (so is Bomberman). Mario Kart the people without the cart only get 1 character / Kart, but you can fully race through 8 (of the 32) tracks. Tetris DS supports 10 people with 1 cart, and with 'items' turned on, it is a crazy good time.

And Don't forget BrainAge etc...

[nweaver]

When the parents take the console away from the kid to play games of their own, thats a success...

Re:And Don't forget BrainAge etc...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a success for the kid...

Re:And Don't forget BrainAge etc...

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

communist.
Joking, but it is a success for capatalism when the kid has to go and buy another one with their allowance. . .

Re:SonyBMG Dropped the Ball

[Not Anonymous Coward]

How much you want to bet all of those factors to limit how you manage the media comes from the head of Sony-BMG and Sony-Colombia/Sony Pictures?

Get rid of those two "divisions" and then, and only then, you've gotten rid of the idiots that limit the full potential of great hardware.

Not completely correct

[Brianech]

This original version of this story is about a week old, and the article fails to mention that Sony just publicly denied that a price cut would occur in the near future (URL:http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php ?aid=18944). While I think a price cut would help out a lot, its almost as if Sony could care less about recovering their market share, and almost seem to be just moving on to the PS3. While I bash the PSP as much as anyone else, I do have one, and it is nice for media. Also the recent DevHook with 2.71 firmware emulation is pretty cool (keeping homebrew capabilities while gaining access to the web browser, RSS, and all that fun stuff).

Re:Not completely correct

[trix7117]

Haven't we gone over this on every PS3/Wii article with regards to MS and the 360? No company is going to come out and say that there's going to be a pricecut soon. If they did that, everyone would sit around and wait for the pricedrop and no one would be buying PSPs. I'm not saying that there's going to be a price cut, but the fact that Sony denies it means nothing.

Re:Not completely correct

[Anonymous Coward]

Also the recent DevHook with 2.71 firmware emulation is pretty cool (keeping homebrew capabilities while gaining access to the web browser, RSS, and all that fun stuff).

Yeah, getting ISOs and playing PSP games for free is some real "fun stuff."

Re:Not completely correct

[Brianech]

who said anything about ISO's? I enjoy my homebrew, like Spider Solitaire, MasterMind, Yahtzee, etc. I also use make use of the webbrowser (although it can be a pain, I am waiting for the browser from Opera to hit NA for DS). I can't do this without emulating a later firmware, OR updating my firmware and losing homebrew capabilities. Now I could update my firmware and then downgrade all the time. But what idiot would take a risk flashing firmware constantly when you could emulate it safely. Not to mention you would need to have a wall socket to plug in the PSP, as you can't update firmware without it being on external power. Quit being an idiot and quit assuming piracy. Your as bad as the RIAA/MPAA in saying that any app that has the potential for illegitimat use MEANS your using it for that purpose. If I used it for ISO's I would have said so.

no price cuts

[Anonymous Coward]

the price cut reports for the psp have been acknowledged to be false.

http://pspupdates.qj.net/Sony-Sorry-But-No-PSP-Pri ce-Cut-/pg/49/aid/61712

The DS has to come up, doesn't it?

[CharAznable]

Seems like every discussion about the PSP has to turn into a "I love my DS" thread. And rightly so, so I'll say it: I love my DS. It has me spending on games like they're ale and whores, and I just can't get enough of it. I brought it to work one day and the next day 3 coworkers got one each. The thing is just fun and contagious, which is exactly what a console is supposed to be. The price is there, the games are there, the people to play with are there... Nintendo have a bona fide hit on their hands, while Sony pays the price for their arrogance. The fact that any thread about Sony ends up being about how awesome Nintendo is just drives the point home.

Re:The DS has to come up, doesn't it?

[trdrstv]

I think it's funny how 'Viral' DS adoption is. I've seen it grow just like that. I showed mine to a buddy at work. After he played the DS for a while, he decided to get one. Then his girlfriended wanted one (he got it for her as a gift). The Girlfriend took it to work, and some co-workers wanted/got one. Then it spreads to their spouse, then a kid, then kid brings it to school...

I just think it's crazy how contageous it is. Eventually I'll be able to get to Kevin Bacon's DS in 6 Friend Codes or less.

Re:The DS has to come up, doesn't it?

[Abcd1234]

The exact same thing happened in my office. My boss picked up a DS. Then I did. After the lite launch, two of my co-workers picked one up, as did one of their buddies.

And in the end, I suspect the price point has a lot to do with that. People are going to think twice about dropping a couple hundred bucks on a device before they've even started buying games. The DS and it's library, on the other hand, are perfectly positioned for folks who are willing to engage in the occasional impulse buy.

Re:The DS has to come up, doesn't it?

[trdrstv]

Game sharing has alot to do with that, IMHO. We've had 5 people play using one copy of Mario Kart DS. That eventually grew to 7 players, each with their own copies... We just need to get one more ...

Re:Where is the multimedia?

[monopole]

I got a v1.5 unit sortly after launch and for the most part I regret the purchase. Too big, too fragile, UMDs are a joke, memorystick pro duos are too expensive, and the battery life limits my primary use video playback from ripped video. On the other hand I love my DS and just bought a DS lite and use it in conjunction with the GBA micro all the time (using a play yan for MP3 and video playback).
As for cutting the price, is Ken "The PS3 isn't expensive enough" Kuratagi going to go along with this? Nore likely He'll raise prices and incorporate a UMD drive so DRMed that it can't read UMD discs.
The foot cannon, isn't effective enough! Get out the foot mass driver!

The only good PSP is a hacked PSP.

[LazyPhoenix]

I carpool with a guy who's got a PSP, which is my only exposure to the machine. He replaced the firmware so he can run emulators of old consoles, as well as load his UMD games on a 2gig memory stick. I've had fun with it on the days when I ride and he drives--the new NCAA football is great. Crazy, though, that he had to hack the thing to make it "fun." That said, he's the only person I know with a PSP -- and I've run into several folks lately the DS and every kid's got a GBA. Seems to me that significantly dropping the price point would be the only way for Sony to catch up at this point. Personally, I can't wait for the Wii...

Suggestions for PSP v2

[thatguywhoiam]

- Ditch the UMD drive. It is an expensive failure.
- Make all games and software memorystick-based; sell games on memorystick (for same cost or less than current)
- Uncripple video playback restrictions (which are frankly not that annoying, but its a principle thing)
- Add integrated videocamera and microphone. Add standard video chat software. Everyone wants a global WiFi videophone Sony, get on it.
- Add full Flash support
- Open up XNA-like development capabilities

Re:Suggestions for PSP v2

[Don_dumb]

Everyone wants a global WiFi videophone

Really? I guess I am not in the group 'everyone' then. More evidence I am autistic perhaps.

The whole gaming scene is broken anyway.

[SupremoMan]

My GameBoy SP still function just fine, why would I throw $200 on another portable system and have to buy new game sin different format? True DS Lite is atleast copatible with GameBoy games, but my GameBoy still works! I'm not going to retire a gadget that functions properly for a novelty of 2 screens and a stylist. Worse yet Nintendo, nor any other console/gadget manufacturer, does not have any recycling program. If they want their consumers to upgrade hardware every 2-3 years, they should atleast be enviornmentally concious enough to recycle the old ones. Maybe even go as far as incorporating parts of their old consoles into the new hardware. It would lower manufacturing costs for sure. Right now there is simply no reason for me to switch.

Re:The whole gaming scene is broken anyway.

[Anonymous Coward]

Silly, you recycle your current toy by giving it to unfortunants like me that would love to have it. :)

Re:The whole gaming scene is broken anyway.

[Kazzahdrane]

That's great for you, but you're missing out on some great games.

Do you use a cellphone from the early 90's? It would probably still work. I don't mean to pick on you but seriously, play Mario Kart, Trauma Center and Pheonix Wright on the DS and then decide whether you care about playing new and innovative games. The DS has greatly improved graphics over the GBA, its wireless features make multiplayer gaming a breeze and the really good games on the horizon are almost all on the DS, rather than the GBA.

But Sony has a highly aggressive strategy!

[Morgaine]

The article is entirely wrong, because Sony has a highly aggressive strategy!

What could be more aggressive than implying that all your customers are morons?

Re:But Sony has a highly aggressive strategy!

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

Throwing chairs at them?

Re:SonyBMG Dropped the Ball

[Jtheletter]

Ironically right about now those division are probably wishing like all hell that people were pirating UMD movies. At least it would mean they were being used!

My PSP is a Single-Game System

[josteos]

Cyberball 2072.

Part of the super midway games compilation. I played that game like a million damn times in the arcades. I love playing against the computer, and I've been considering getting a second PSP just so I can play other people. Yes, I know there are alternative ways to play (MAME + kailera), but for simple ease-of-use, the PSP + Cyberball is great. Of course, the little analog nubbin sucks balls. But I've gotten used to it... but no so used to it that I don't scour eBay looking for arcade units for sale nearby.

I've got other games for it, but they don't get played much.

Oh for the love of

[TommyBear]

Let's get a couple of things straight:

- If the PSP is no fun at the moment, how about EA actually making some fun games?
- There are 122 games released for the DS
- There are 147 games released for the PSP
- For the DS: 18 are bad, 69 are okay to good, 33 are great (backed up by media reviews and users)
- For the PSP: 7 ar bad, 87 are okay to good, 52 are great (backed up by media reviews and users)

Look it up:
http://www.metacritic.com/games/psp/scores/
http://www.metacritic.com/games/ds/scores/

- The PSP has shipped(not sold) 20 million units worldwide
- The DS has shipped(not sold) 21 million units worldwide

etc etc etc.

Look, I have a PSP and I play the the games I have and they are fun. I'm starting to feel that the people that moan about game being crap on the PSP are complaining about the ripped pirated games they play on their 1.5 handhelds. You know, the ones missing assets, sounds, movies and models.

Re:Oh for the love of

[Anonymous Coward]

you got this part wrong.
- The DS has shipped(not sold) 21 million units worldwide

The DS has sold(not shipped) 21 million units worldwide. And you are the first person I ever met that actually says the psp has more good games than the DS.

Re:Oh for the love of

[trdrstv]

"The DS has sold (not shipped) 21 million units worldwide."

Also you state the PSP has more games, but that doesn't paint the whole picture. The PSP currently has only 3 titles that sold over 1 million copies worldwide and the DS has 13. One of which (English Training) isn't even a game, so it wouldn't show up on Metacritic.

The PSP had UMD movies that were lower resolution copies of Movies that were not playable on anything else; cost more then a DVD of the same movie, and usually had fewer extras due to lower disk capacity. The DS has a wider variety of games, and other Software that appeal to broader demographics.

Re:Oh for the love of

[TommyBear]

Well then I guess all those units of unsold DS's at my local store are not part of the shipped figure then? Is there a third figure, because that must mean that those units I see in store are not part of the shipped total?

"And you are the first person I ever met that actually says the psp has more good games than the DS."

Really then you need to meet some of the people that play PSP and DS games and maybe even chat to those people on metacritic.

Re:Oh for the love of

[TommyBear]

"The PSP had UMD movies that were lower resolution copies of Movies that were not playable on anything else; cost more then a DVD of the same movie, and usually had fewer extras due to lower disk capacity. The DS has a wider variety of games, and other Software that appeal to broader demographics."

What does this have to do with fun games?

"Also you state the PSP has more games, but that doesn't paint the whole picture. The PSP currently has only 3 titles that sold over 1 million copies worldwide and the DS has 13. One of which (English Training) isn't even a game, so it wouldn't show up on Metacritic."

Brain training is on there... what is your point exactly. I don't care about units sold. I care about how much fun games seem to be for people of either machine. If game were "no fun" on the psp, I'd expect to see reviews all in the red. That is simply not the case.

Re:Oh for the love of

[Anonymous Coward]

Originality plays a part in the fun factor as well.

Think about how many PSP games have a counterpart on the PS2 with no appreciable difference.
Now look at the DS games, almost every game on the DS makes use of wireless or the touch screen.
This makes them very different games than their analogue on the Gamecube or other consoles.

The PSP is the portable PS2.
The DS is unique. The DS lived up to the hype!

Re:Oh for the love of

[CronoCloud]

Sony's being caught by the hypocrisy of gamers, for years we've said

"We don't like our portable games cut down, with worse graphics, fewer levels and crappy sound, we want a handheld that can come close to our home machines.

So, Sony makes such a handheld, then gamers say,

"We don't want to play the same games we play at home, we want to play 2D sidescrollers. and puzzle games"

Re:Oh for the love of

[timetokill]

That's why you don't always ask consumers what they want, because they oftentimes don't know. Also, the hidden tag on the end of "we want a handheld that can come close to our home machines" is ", but doesn't cost as much as our home machines."

Re:Oh for the love of

[decadre]

Actually, the DS has sold 20 million units: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/24/ 126203

PSP had shipped 17 million last time I looked (from this years E3 Sony keynote) Keep in mind that here in Australia you just cant get your hands on a Lite without placing an order, and seems to be the same in Japan (My GF just moved there and is trying to get one), I have heard it is much the same in other parts of the world, the PSP seems to have plenty on the shelf tho.

Not bashing the PSP, just kudos to the DS

Re:Oh for the love of

[buffer-overflowed]

What does this have to do with fun games?

I'd imagine people would buy fun games. Unless they're PSP owners apparently.

Re:Oh for the love of

[Guppy06]

""We don't like our portable games cut down, with worse graphics, fewer levels and crappy sound, we want a handheld that can come close to our home machines."

I'd say gamers have mostly been saying "I love my Game Boy." However...

"We don't want to play the same games we play at home, we want to play 2D sidescrollers. and puzzle games"

How exactly do these two statements conflict? Isn't it possible that the PSP has many games that are "the same games we play at home" only "with worse graphics, fewer levels and crappy sound?" I'd say that's exactly what's available for the PSP now, while Nintendo handhelds focus on porting the depth and fun of console games than aiming for a/v first and content second.

Re:Oh for the love of

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're confused by who is making the statements.

Console and PC gamers, who readily adopted 3D gaming and are very impressed by hi-fi graphics, said "We don't like our portable games cut down, with worse graphics, fewer levels and crappy sound, we want a handheld that can come close to our home machines." For the most part these are people who do not buy portable systems because their home system will always have far better graphics and sound than any portable can.

Portable gamers, who love 2D gaming (something that has only really been avaiable on handhelds for about 10 years), said they wanted a system that could provide 2D gameplay that couldn't be done on the GBA.

Ultimately, when you look at the PSP what you see is a system that was designed when Sony asked PS2 owners (who didn't own GBAs) what they wanted from a portable system (great graphics, media capabilities, console like gaming experience)

Re:Oh for the love of

[Achoi77]

What does this have to do with fun games?

What that has to do with fun games, is that Sony spend a lot of marketing and licensing dollars trying to create a market that didn't want to be created - money that could have been better spent on.. Oh, say.. games? Game development?

If Sony really wanted to break ahead from the DS, what they should have done was embrace the homebrew community - or at the very least give some kind of advantage to indy game developers to make their own games for cheap, similar to what Steam or Xbox live is doing. But back to the main subject:

I don't care about units sold. I care about how much fun games seem to be for people of either machine. If game were "no fun" on the psp, I'd expect to see reviews all in the red. That is simply not the case.

You have to think from a business perspective in order see the point the parent poster was trying to convey. NeoGeo games had some pretty high ratings too, but nobody was willing to purchase the home console and their games because it was way too expensive, with the exception of a few with deep pockets-and there was a lot of games out for that as well. While there are a number of psp games that are fun, if they aren't runaway successes, then you aren't going to be rolling in the big bucks - and if you are in the business of game development, that's where you want to be. Let's say that you are a game developer, and you see two consoles but you only have the resources to develop for one. One is clearly a superior machine with more flexible options, but the other is cheaper, and has a lot more titles selling over a million units. That 'other' console seems to have a much riper market. Which console are you going to develop for?

Sure, you *could* blame it on the game dev not being able to produce a(n) AAA title (thus the reasoning why the game isn't pushing 1M units out the door), but if you are in the business of game development, are you willing to take that chance, or are you just going to ride the "riper market" wave and see where the 'other' console takes you?

Bottom line is: how much projected $$ will you rake in if you developed for one console vs. the other? The exception being big companies that can develop for both - is there some kind of exclusivity contracting that prevents devs from producing on both (besides the obvious interface issue that is)?

Re:Oh for the love of

[MojoBox]

You actually think the DS units in stores near you would appreciably affect the 20 million figure one way or the other?

Re:Oh for the love of

[ElleyKitten]

Well then I guess all those units of unsold DS's at my local store are not part of the shipped figure then? Is there a third figure, because that must mean that those units I see in store are not part of the shipped total?

Huh? The GPP said that 21 million have been sold, obviously more have been shipped.

And you are the first person I ever met that actually says the psp has more good games than the DS."

Really then you need to meet some of the people that play PSP and DS games and maybe even chat to those people on metacritic.

The PSP metacritic list includes non-games (Advent Children) and games not released in America (Eternia) inflating it's great section. Also, several games (like Madden) in the PSP's great section also appear in the DS's middle section, which is kinda interesting. I don't think the metacritic's list should be taken as the be all, end all, comparison of DS vs PSP games.

Re:Oh for the love of

[MemoryDragon]

Not here in Europe, I just walked into a shop and got a white from the rack.

Re:Oh for the love of

[justchris]

Well then I guess all those units of unsold DS's at my local store are not part of the shipped figure then? Is there a third figure, because that must mean that those units I see in store are not part of the shipped total?

One thing you need to remember is that Nintendo operates significantly differently from any other major console manufacturer they currently compete with.

Nintendo, like Sega, has always reported sold numbers, not shipped numbers. So no, the 21 million figure does not include the DS' sitting on store shelves, because those shipped numbers are essentially useless to Nintendo.

The reasoning behind this is simple. Nintendo is still the number one software developer for their platform. It is vitally important to them to know exactly how many hardware units are in customer hands so they can estimate how many units of software to produce. If they have shipped 40 million DS', but have only sold 21 million, and they release a game like New Super Mario Bros., their internal analysts can be reasonably sure that 60% of all DS owners will purchase this new game. Now, 60% of 40 million is significantly greater than 60% of 21 million. If they produce units based on their shipped figures, that's 11.4 million copies of the game that they've essentially wasted money on, and Nintendo is far too conservative a company to waste money like that. After they determine how many existing users are likely to purchase, they determine how many users are likely to purchase the console and the new game because of the game, then they add maybe 5% to that total to avoid shortages, and that's how many copies of the game they stamp.

Sony and Microsoft, on the other hand, are far more dependent on 3rd parties. Therefore they use the artificially inflated shipped numbers to encourage more 3rd parties to make games for their consoles.

Nintendo has always only reported sold numbers, not because they're being particularly open and honest, but because that number is vitally important to their business model. They even go so far as to report the numbers as conservatively as possible, only reporting numbers they can verify, since it's better to err on the side of caution by a few hundred, and save money they can then use for other products.

But the PS2 was a success

[SuperKendall]

The same thing happened with the PS2. Great hardware crippled by a few moronic decisions...

While I agree with your take on the PSP, it can't be ignored that despite the PSP suffering the PS2 itself was incredibly successful, despite a few feature shortcomings like you mentioned - I actually don't think lack of online focus was much of a probelm with the PS2, it was too early for that.

So you have a console with good hardware that died in the market (PSP), hardware that was OK that did great in the market (PS2). I think it's hard to predict how well the PS3 will do based on readings from those, as it depends on a lot of factors - and some initial abilities point to Sony being more open about user generated content on the PS3, which is I think important as that was a giant reason why the PSP did so poorly. Also a number of the games coming out for the PS3 do look rather promising so I don't think they are ignoring that angle the way the PSP was ignored.

Re:But the PS2 was a success

[J. T. MacLeod]

The PS2 was certainly a success--no denying that. But it really failed to live up to its potential.

If the PS2 had included just a BIT more video memory and had good network support out of the box (including a good service behind it, like Live), I dare say the XBox might not have been a success.

Re:But the PS2 was a success

[Abcd1234]

So you have a console with good hardware that died in the market (PSP), hardware that was OK that did great in the market (PS2).

And the difference? The PS2 was price competative with a decent game library, assisted by a large back catalog of previous-generation titles. The fact that it was the first of that generation to market probably helped, too.

Funny, that sounds familiar...

Re:If you love the GBA play Castlevania DoS.

[trdrstv]

Ok, If you have and love your GBA SP, you likely played at least one of the 4 Castlevania games on it. Play Dawn of Sorrow, for the DS and despite some annoying use of the touch screen for the demon seals, you will see what a solid 2D GBA game can become with the extra power.

The added bonus of course is you can still play all your old GBA games on the go, and I was surprised that the DS-L isn't much bigger than an SP (larger than 1, but smaller than 2 side by side).

Re:Where is the multimedia?

[CronoCloud]

Duos have actually come down in price, the standard price for 512MB sticks is now $38. 1GB for $68. Quite competitive with other formats.

How is this hypocrisy?

[MMaestro]

"We don't like our portable games cut down, with worse graphics, fewer levels and crappy sound, we want a handheld that can come close to our home machines.

Worse graphics? Thats because developers have been trying to jam 3D graphics down the throats of gamers ever since the PS1. Even the recent New Super Mario Bros game for the DS has 'jaggy' polygons. Fewer levels = cheap attempt by developer to cut costs. (They bitch about lack of space, get the UMD as a storage media and cut back on levels? Wtf? They're not developing games to be fit onto a NES cartridge!) No one wants to hear crappy sounds come out of their portable system in public, thats embarassing. And no, we've never wanted a handheld that came close to consoles. (If we did, we'd all be playing games on PDAs, which were years ahead of the DS complete with a touch screen.)

"We don't want to play the same games we play at home, we want to play 2D sidescrollers. and puzzle games"

The PSP has games that aren't ports?! Really? Like what? The PSP doesn't have any serious 2D side scrolling games that to rival Mario (or even Sonic) and there is a sheer lack of puzzle games (Lumines is no Tetris-killer and theres nothing that comes close to the DS's Brain Age games.)

The PSP has not delivered, plain and simple. UMD's have PLENTY of memory to create PS1-sized games, yet we get SNES/Genesis sized games. The screen is IDEAL for side scrollers... which haven't materialized. Sony proclaims a GBA/DS killer... and fires cannonballs at Nintendo hiding in underground fortified, multi-tiered, reinforced, booby-trapped bunkers. (The Game Gear gave the Gameboy a run for its money.) Memory sticks are a flop for all but the homebrewers, unless you travel a lot, theres no reason to shun your DVD player for a UMD version of a movie and lets face it; the advertising campaign is extremely confusing. (Talking dust balls? Grayscale colors? "PSP"? What are they advertising a new cleaning product?)

You missed a spot.

[Anonymous Coward]

The DS wins soley for one underated gaming franchise, Advance/Famicom Wars. When Famicom Wars a basic strategy game made the jump to the GameBoy Advance it became amazing. Advance Wars and Advance Wars 2: Blackhole Rising were the main reasons I bought a GBA and when Advance Wars: Duel Strike came out, I bought a DS. I personally cannot wait for the next installment in the series.

New variable

[SuperKendall]

And the difference? The PS2 was price competative with a decent game library, assisted by a large back catalog of previous-generation titles. The fact that it was the first of that generation to market probably helped, too.

Funny, that sounds familiar...

Yes, it sounds like the PS3 with one new variable - a higher price. What you and I do not know and cannot know is what price point is "price competitive".

Since thce 360 is only $100 less than an equivilent PS3 but includes a new HD video player, it's questionable that the PS3 is not in fact as price competitive as the 360. Now the 360 sales have been in a slump (stacks and stacks of them sitting at my local Best Buy and the ps2 is still outselling it) so possibly the PS3 will have the same issues, but the PS3 will also have a much larger and more diverse back catalog to rely on along with free online play as compared to the yearly fee for the equivilent level of service with Live, not to mention the ability to play HD video out of the box which is indeed a factor in my early purchase.

$500 is indeed expensive but most 360's were going for far more than that on eBay for all of December, so there is precedent for at least a million or two selling quickly at that price.

Re:New variable

[Abcd1234]

What you and I do not know and cannot know is what price point is "price competitive".

I think it's simple. Do you cost more than your competitors without providing a comparative advantage? No? Then you're not price competative.

So, what do they offer that justifies the $100 price gap? Well, I'm sorry to say it, but HD is not, IMHO, a feature your average consumer cares about. HD uptake has been dismal, and your average middle-income family does not have an HD capable set, and won't for years (not until HD sets are in the $500-$600 range, if you ask me). And HD on a non-HD set is basically pointless.

Free online play? Okay, that's pretty handy. However, the value of this service is really dependant on my next point, that being...

Launch lineup. I think the only way Sony will be able to avoid the stagnation that's plagued the 360 is to offer an absolutely *stellar* launch lineup. Tied with free online play, I could see them achieving some amount of success, and gobbling up a decent chunk of the market that the 360 is competing for. OTOH, given what we've seen with the PSP, I'm not holding out a lot of hope, here.

PSP and PS3 different markets though

[SuperKendall]

So, what do they offer that justifies the $100 price gap? Well, I'm sorry to say it, but HD is not, IMHO, a feature your average consumer cares about. HD uptake has been dismal, and your average middle-income family does not have an HD capable set, and won't for years (not until HD sets are in the $500-$600 range, if you ask me). And HD on a non-HD set is basically pointless.

That's not so; millions of people have HD ready sets. What most of them do not have is HDMI - thus the $500 PS3 model and the studios disabling of the ICT flag.

I am not entirely willing to say that HD on a non-HD set over component cables would not look somewhat better than DVD, it wouldn't be by much though I agree.

Free online play? Okay, that's pretty handy. However, the value of this service is really dependant on my next point, that being...Launch lineup. I think the only way Sony will be able to avoid the stagnation that's plagued the 360 is to offer an absolutely *stellar* launch lineup. Tied with free online play, I could see them achieving some amount of success, and gobbling up a decent chunk of the market that the 360 is competing for. OTOH, given what we've seen with the PSP, I'm not holding out a lot of hope, here.

I totally agree this is key as well. If there are no comelling games all the other features do not matter.

However the PS3 has a lot better shot at this than the PSP did - the PSP was trying to break into a market that game companies were not sure they could relly do taht well in, so developer support was much more minimal. A lot more publishers are more confident of the PS3 doing well and so are putting a lot more resources into the platform.

To my mind the current launch titles look actually a little better off than the PS2 had, where basically SSX was the best thing around for some time. Resistance: Fall of Man looks to be a good game (mostly going by the developers there) and a few other titles show promise.

The 360 has some comeplling titles as well now (like Dead Rising) so it should be an interesting Christmas season.

One other benefit

[SuperKendall]

I forgot to mention one other feature that helps justify that price gap - PS2/PS1 support. A lot of people have those platforms so to a degree the sucess of that feature will help determine the success of the console.