An Xbox 360 Peripheral Rundown

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has been talked about its future plans at GameFest in Seattle, and revealed that its Xbox 360 Live Vision camera will ship next month with a free game, TotemBall, which uses gestural technology to control an on-screen avatar, much like Sony's EyeToy games. In addition, the camera will also be used for facemapping technology in Activision's World Series Of Poker game." Gamespot is reporting on other, equally interesting peripherals for the Xbox 360, many of which have come up in recent rumormongering. They discuss the price point for the HD-DVD drive (probably about $200), support for 1080p (likely), a new media jukebox for the console (quite possible), and the likelihood that Microsoft will release a new controller designed specifically for FPSes (would make sense).

Comments

Earth to Console Makers!

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up and deliver.

Christ, I swear if I see one more concept that is unfinished or "in development" I'm going to wig out.

You're only pissing me off by showing me what will be release a year or two later. I urge everyone to only purchase a console based on the current released games and peripherals available.

Wait and see

[andrewman327]

I remember all of the predictions about the PS2's accessories and how you would be able to do this and that and use your own face in every game, etc. The EyeToy is nice but I never viewed it as being good for more than about 15 minutes of fun. XBox 360 has more power and a better chance of actually doing something new. Considering how long we have been using the same control pad (or occassionally steering wheel) paradigm on consoles, we are long overdue for a change. I sincerely hope that this latest generation of gaming systems brings a new experience to the table. The Wii also seems to be trying some new ideas.

I hate to knitpick, but how can the included game be "free" if you have to buy the camera to use it?

Re:Wait and see

[Anonymous Coward]

and the likelihood that Microsoft will release a new controller designed specifically for FPSes (would make sense).

I'd love to see something that gets away from the joysticks and more towards WASD + Mouse

Re:Wait and see

[UbuntuDupe]

The EyeToy is nice but I never viewed it as being good for more than about 15 minutes of fun.
 
I introduced my mom (59 at time of introduction to game) to Kinetic for the PS2 (which uses the Eyetoy). It's a program that takes you through a fitness routine. You can match your positions to those of a character on the screen for stretching, and then you do fitness-related games, like reaching for a blue spot while avoiding a bouncing red ball. Ever since, she spends 60+ minutes on it per day, 3-6 days a week, and enjoys it very much and says he has more energy and less pain in her knees. So, some people get a lot of value out of it.
 
The Wii does, of course, have a lot of potential, and I'm very excited about what it will have to offer. I'm hoping for a game where you holster a Wiimote to each arm and leg, and then it guides you through a dance. It would be able to detect and command a lot more than DDR: twirls, arm rolls, claps, kicks, etc. in addition to steps. If no one makes it, I'd be glad to program it and give it (at least part of it) away, if only I could get an SDK. (Cost not a problem, Nintendo's restrictions are.)

Re:Wait and see

[Anonymous Coward]

Then stay on PC. You've already got a keyboard and mouse to play games with... Also, atari tried the keypad thing with the... Jaguar I think? and console gamers HATED it. So as far as WASD/Mouse combo on consoles? I doubt any console manufacturer is going to make such a dramatic shift to appeal to a market (pc gamers) that is 1/6th the size of the console market, and most likely won't switch since they're married to the customizability that a pc has and a console lacks anyway. The controller MS is talking about making sounds like a nice compromise, but it will likely be about as popular as the FPS Master was for the first Xbox... which is to say, I once saw one in a store, and I've read on the internet that at least a few people bought them...

Re:Wait and see

[PFI_Optix]

I hate WASD. It ties my off hand to a certin spot on the keyboard if I want to move.

I have move forward on the mouse, and my keyboard arrangement is something similar to the old Doom setup that had for "strafing". This way I can move and type for communication, or issue complex commands mapped well away from my movement keys without coming to a stop.

Re:Wait and see

[Voltageaav]

The Eyetoy can be hours and hours of fun. The Fun is multiplyed by the number of shots you take while using it at a party. Members of the opposite sex and mutual nudity on top of the previously mentioned shots increase the fun exponentially.

Modchip?

[Anonymous Coward]

Only peripheral worth reviewing for this thing.

Seriously, anyone know if there's a working one for the 360 yet?

Re:Modchip?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is, but it's limited to playing "backups". You can't run homebrew yet, and you can't modify any of the signed executables on the disc, or it won't run. It doesn't defeat the region protection either.

Re:Modchip?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's too bad. I hope progress is being made, would love to see media center and emulators on the thing.

"an anonymous reader writes" my ass!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet another 360 fluff piece from Zonk. All that's missing is some anti-sony sentiment, but I'm sure that will come up in the next story he posts.

Re:"an anonymous reader writes" my ass!

[fimbulvetr]

Can someone release some more ps3 pictures (Just color some up with ms paint or something), so these guys can go back to wacking off to their pictures while we play some games and get on with it?

Re:"an anonymous reader writes" my ass!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to soften your 360 stiffy, but this story has been up for a couple of hours now and drawn less than 30 posts. I was in Costco the other day and saw a HUGE stack of 360's, with not a person even looking at them. Seems to me that the 360 is potentially in the wrong place in this market.

The PS3 is all HD - output, drive, etc. So, the gadget geeks that want to watch Star Wars in 1080p, play HD games and watch endless Final Fantasy cutscenes have that.

The Wii is oldschool 480, so the folks who don't have two grand to blow on a tv, or don't want to spend $300 on just a console will buy one.

The 360 is sort of in the middle - no movies without the HD-DVD drive, but still expensive and needs a HDTV to get the most out of it. After all, add the $200 you need for the HD drive to the cost of the 360, and you've got - the PS3! Might as well just buy the integrated machine.

Me, I think both the 360 and the PS3 will struggle a bit. HD isn't worth spending $$$ right now, and might not be for a few more years.

Derned allergies

[caffeine ninja]

I'm still waiting to see what happens in games when you sneeze. Also, I'll believe an intuitive system for movement is possible with this sort of technology when I see it. I mean, can you picture trying to control Mario or some other platform hopping character with this sort of system? How would you turn around (intuitively, mind you) without losing sight of the TV, but also actually making a 180 degree turn instead of a 90 degree turn? How would you make Luigi run around without running around yourself? I'm all for exercise, but I just don't think this kind of technology can be applied to many existing console genres - which so far are the ones that will probably sell best. I view this as a niche market technology with a very small niche. :P

Re:Derned allergies

[Cadallin]

This is why I think Nintendo's solution is much more workable. Even assuming the video camera processing is able to properly recognize a player's movements in a variety of different non-controlled environments, the problems you pose are exactly what makes it unworkable. At least without full-body VR gear in some kind of roll cage hamster ball. The only real complaints I've read about the Wii demos at E3 were that people would have liked to be able to adjust sensitivity settings. While that was unworkable in an E3 demo setting, I see no reason why it won't be supported on the release version of the console.

Re:Derned allergies

[KDR_11k]

The only real complaints I've read about the Wii demos at E3 were that people would have liked to be able to adjust sensitivity settings. While that was unworkable in an E3 demo setting, I see no reason why it won't be supported on the release version of the console.

From what I've read that was actually possible in many E3 demos if you took the time to look into the options menu.

Higher Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

support for 1080p (likely)

Higher resolution support, for either in game or movies, would probably require an upgraded system; but this is one of the few upgrades you can do that would not have an adverse effect on your developers. Essentially, if you make it so a developer only chooses the type of display (regular/widescreen) and the system sets up the output resolution (with the possible exception of locking your resolution for 2D games) then you can upgrade your hardware to handle higher resolutions without having an effect on software development; think of it in PC terms, when you get a new graphics card do you have to get a patch to play at a higher resolution at a decent frame rate?

How long will it be

[antifoidulus]

till genitals start showing up? I give about a week before someone's "poker face" mysteriously only has 1 eye...

Re:How long will it be

[captainbeardo]

Or Major Privates reporting for active booty duty in squad combat games...

Re:How long will it be

[blueZhift]

What? A whole week? More like less than a day. I recall an arcade game, may have been the Journey one, that had planned to have a camera to allow players to put their face in the game along with the band. Well, this idea was very quickly squelched once they realized what was likely to happen if the players were given that kind of freedom. I suppose, aggressive policing could help, but it would only take one incident before the likes of Jack Thompson launched a lawsuit.

Re:How long will it be

[Jerf]

My guess is that they completely understand that and it's pure marketing.

There's this set of "obvious applications" that comes up in marketing, but mysteriously never materializes in the real world because it's either really hard to create, really hard to make useful, or completely uninteresting in real life. Classic examples include:

• "Mom using the computer to store recipes." Never happened; the web makes it easy to get *other* recipes but Mom never put a computer in the kitchen and typed all her recipes into it. "Uninteresting in real life."
• The home console that will also double as a computer (a promise older than many Slashdotters). "Really hard to make useful" against the competition of a real computer.
• The fully voice-controlled computer. Easy to talk about; "really hard to create".
• Pretty much any AI promise ever made.
• Most convergance promises; this falls into the "really hard" category and slowly but surely it is actually happening, but it's as much a matter of exploring the design space as it is developing the hardware. A few things have converged, but nowhere near what was promised, and much of what actually has converged wasn't predicted. I do not remember people talking about cell phone + camera until it was virtually on top of us, for instance, whereas "PDA + cell phone" still hasn't really happened, nor has "cell phone + good MP3 player". And I could fill another couple of paragraphs about failed convergances I've seen...

Each sub-category of computing develops its own promises, and "peripheral promises" are an old and rich vein in the console domain. This is going to be marketed as "putting you in the game"; in practice, it'll be the EyeToy 2.

(I'm going to classify this as "uninteresting in real life"; when I say I want to be "in the game", I don't mean I want to see my face, I mean I want to feel like I'm living the game, and generally, I don't see my own face in real life, so that's pretty jarring. Granted, the poker example isn't that, but it really isn't terribly interesting either; you might as well let people represent themselves as anything they want, rather than their own face. Isn't that one of the advantages of being online, nobody knows you're a dog?)

Re:How long will it be

[isellmacs]

I've got a Motorola SLVR, that acts as both a cell phone and as a mini-iPod. It's got a tiny removable 512mb card which holds around 100 songs in mp3 format. The speaker built into it is far superior than any speaker of it's size i've ever heard; you can listen to it without headphones and it's just fine. It runs iTunes and uses basicly the same interface.

Link: http://www.cingular.com/SLVR_iTunes/

I would consider it a "cell phone + good MP3 player". Quality is excellent, and even though the trans-flash only holds 100 songs, that's a good 8-10 cd's worth of music you like.

Re:How long will it be

[elrous0]

I'm still waiting for the oft-promised "internet appliances," such as:

• "The refridgerator that automatically orders groceries for you when you're running low"--begging the questions "Who would have time to inventory their entire refridgerator but be too lazy to do a shopping list?" and "Where the Hell does it order gorceries FROM, anyway?" If anyone can tell me a grocery store that takes orders over a network connection AND delivers them straight to your fridge, I'd sure like to know about it.
• "The dishwasher that sends you an email when it finishes a cycle"--Seriously, I can't count the number of times I've said to myself "Gee, my dishwasher is great and all, but couldn't it spam my email box with worthless messages in addition to eliminating spots on my glasses?"

  And, of course:

• The flying jetpack

-Eric

Re:How long will it be

[twistedsymphony]

till genitals start showing up? I give about a week before someone's "poker face" mysteriously only has 1 eye...

Reading an early article about the Xbox Vision IIRC they have methods to detect wether or not what you took a picture of was your face or something else. They used the example that you couldn't take a picture of your hand because the system was unable to find your eyes, nose, mouth, etc and thus wouldn't let you use it.

Re:How long will it be

[BenBenBen]

Did anyone else get an image in their head of Mr Potatohead eyes and a fake mustache attached to genitals just now? Just me? OK.

Do they really expect these to do all that well?

[jizziknight]

The only console peripherals/accessories I remember taking off at all were the rumble pack and memory expansion for the N64. Everything else was either bundled with a certain game (and generally only used with that specific game) or was sold with the intent of being useful in lots of games, but never really was any good with any game. Hell, even the lightguns were only useful for a few games, and usually didn't work quite right.

Accessories are rarely ever successful because game developers rarely ever want to take the risk to require that their game use a certain accessory, unless that accessory has already become widely popular. The ones they do take a risk with often only add some minor improvement or novelty to the game; the game would otherwise be no different if the user did not have the accessory.

Too expensive

[Kohath]

I can't believe $ony! They want to take even MORE of our money!! Why weren't all these included with the console? $ony is always trying to get more ... ...

Oh wait, it's the Xbox.

Yeay! Thanks Microsoft. Wow! I can't believe they're only charging this much. Halo rox.

Movies

[SuperKendall]

The 1080p referenced is in regards to movies, not games - mentioned by the HD-DVD player.

In theory Microsoft cannot support 1080p since the copy protection used by both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is AACS, which mandates a maximum resolution of 1080i when using component outputs (this is not the same as the ICT flag restriction). Since the 360 has no HDMI out, it would seem they might have ot redefine the standard a bit to support this (which the PS3 would benefit from as well).

Anti-homebrew

[tepples]

I urge everyone to only purchase a console based on the current released games and peripherals available.

Unless you want to get a console manufactured before the security updates that lock out homebrew.

Re:Anti-homebrew

[generic-man]

Hey! There are tons of homebrew games that people are just dying to play on their new systems!

Like... emulators!

and Tetris clones!

and, um... emulators that let you play Tetris clones!

Re:Anti-homebrew

[KDR_11k]

That thing has automated online updates anyway.

Video Game Poker == Lame

[brunes69]

In addition, the camera will also be used for facemapping technology in Activision's World Series Of Poker game.

It's really too bad, because this sounds like an excellent use of technology and will make for a great poker game. Too bad no one will play it, because there is almost guarenteed no realmoney involved.

If Activision wanted to make a mint off this, they would allow you to deposit real money into an account associated with your Live account, so you could play in tournaments online for real cash. This would put them into the same space as Party Poker etc, except the Activision software would be way more advanced and would draw in more players probably.

Of course, they would never do this since it would be illegal in the US. Maybe a European only version of the game?

Re:Video Game Poker == Lame

[meknapp]

Funny... nobody complains that you can't die a real death in Halo...

Perhaps you can win "Microsoft Points" or whatever they're called in Xbox Live.

Re:Video Game Poker == Lame

[p0tat03]

What about Microsoft Points? Gambling with fake money, even if it is purchased with real money... how does that work out legally? Though technically casinos do the same thing...

Re:Video Game Poker == Lame

[sneezinglion]

In the USA gambling with fake money is legal, aslong asthe "fake" money cannot be redeemed for real money. You just need a prize store like they have at arcades to redeem tickets at.

Re:Video Game Poker == Lame

[KDR_11k]

Well, sounds perfect then since that's what XBLA offers.

2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[WillAffleckUW]

um, maybe I should just get that Wii and have a bunch of fun, instead? I mean, after shelling out $1999 for a decent 1080i or 1080p LCD HDTV, adding on say $2000 for speakers they recommend, I mean, I could have bought a cluster of Linux laptops running off a cluster of Linux servers for that lot ...

Or spent less than $300 total for a Wii and a nice bundle of games and enjoyed myself a lot more.

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Go right ahead. I really like the 360 games I have, the Live Arcade, and the ability to take advantage of the 1080i widescreen set I already have.

I don't use my gamecube much because it's restricted to SDTV aspect ratio, and doesn't look as nice to me. I can't imagine Wii will be any better in that regard. I'm still likely to buy one, but it wouldn't be my primary system by any stretch of the imagination.

I use the HD set and the Home Theatre set up for more than just the 360 anyhow.

But hey, if you want to stick with the 19" CRT and keep telling yourself how much more "fun" you're having than the rest of us, knock yourself out!

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[maddskillz]

You don't have to shell out for the speakers or the TV. It will work fine on a normal TV. It won't look as pretty without the HDTV, but conversely, the Wii won't look as pretty even if you do have an HDTV

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[poot_rootbeer]

I don't use my gamecube much because it's restricted to SDTV aspect ratio

I take it, then, that you either have a newer 'Cube from after the Digital A/V port was removed, or have a Digital A/V port but can't find the component cable adapter to hook it up to your TV with. The GameCube was capable of outputting in progressive and widescreen, but support for these features was not all that widespread.

The Wii should (I hope) be better in this regard; with other consoles touting the virtues of HD gaming, Nintendo really ought to support something better than NTSC video over S-Video.

THQ had a demonstration of some Wii titles the other day in New York City. IGN's photos of the event show games running off a Wii devkit, in true widescreen. This is promising.

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[Anonymous Coward]

But hey, if you want to stick with the 19" CRT and keep telling yourself how much more "fun" you're having than the rest of us, knock yourself out!

I don't know about you, but my definition of "fun" isn't dictated by the size of the screen I'm using. By your reasoning, the GBA, DS, and PSP shouldn't be any "fun" at all.

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[WillAffleckUW]

But hey, if you want to stick with the 19" CRT and keep telling yourself how much more "fun" you're having than the rest of us, knock yourself out!

Umm, my TV is at least 24 inch. It works fine as is with just a GameCube, an xBox, and a PS2. I think the Wii will be even cooler, but the game selection for the 360 just underwhelms me - I don't really care about sports (unless I'm playing, then I LOVE it, or watching baseball at the Mariner's stadium) and I don't care about car races and FPS bores me to tears (used to be in the Army, too much like work and too unrealistic, nobody screams and moans, no smell or bullets whizzing past your head, no explosions right next to you).

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[WillAffleckUW]

dude, I'm not going to spend more than $300 on my HDTV. My first degree was Business, with Sales and Marketing as my cores. I'm not going to shell out $2K for something that will cost $300 in two to three years.

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[Mr2001]

But hey, if you want to stick with the 19" CRT and keep telling yourself how much more "fun" you're having than the rest of us, knock yourself out!

"The rest of us"? Just how common do you think it is to own an HDTV set? I know exactly one person in real life who has one, and it's an old projection unit; every other widescreen TV I've ever seen has been in a business.

We are the rest of us, the people who don't want to shell out $1000+ for a television (OK, $600+ for a tiny one). I'm sure it'd be "fun" to have a high definition TV, but it's even more fun to have gas in your car and a roof over your head, you know?

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[maddskillz]

My point was: You don't HAVE to buy the HDTV. The 360 will take advantage of that. The Wii will not.
You gain something if you have the 360 and the HDTV. If you have the Wii, you don't get that gain

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[WillAffleckUW]

ah, good point. My point was that I also not only don't need to but the 360, and am going to buy the Wii, because the games are more fun.

But I'm sure as heck not spending $5000 on an HDTV, massive speakers, and other things I have no interest in - even if they "make the xBox360 experience better". I can kind of see why having an add-on for FPS that's more weapon-like might make sense, but I'm still not interested.

I'll wait until all this costs (total package) way less than $500 instead of $5000, quite frankly.

Re:2000 dollar HDTV LCD check

[KDR_11k]

But hey, if you want to stick with the 19" CRT and keep telling yourself how much more "fun" you're having than the rest of us, knock yourself out!

My 19" CRT is currently running at 1280x960 and 85 Hz, no interlacing. Looks a hell of a lot better than most TVs I've seen and cost me 150€.

1080p comments do not add up

[SuperKendall]

They claim the support for 1080p is "likley" with a special cable - but then say there is no HDMI in sight.

1080P does not require a special cable, it could use the existing component output of the 360. If the 360 could support 1080p, why would it not have done so before now? If 1080p is to be supported at all, it would seem to be soley by the HD-DVD drive althoguh there they run into the problem that the AACS standard used by both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD mandates no video signal greater than 1080i for analog output of signals - possibly they may drop that aspect of the standard though just as ICT has dropped out of sight from titles put out by movie publishers.

Even at $200, it still seems to me that uptake of the external HD-DVD drives would be low unless some games (or at least game content) makes use of the drive.

Reasons for needing HDTV and the camera

[WillAffleckUW]

1. so you can see up close the pimply teenagers trash talking you while you're playing Live

2. so you can see the not dressed over 40 guys playing WoW as skimpily clad young women with breasts defying gravity and basic physics

3. so you can see pics of your second cousin twice removed (you know, the really ugly side of the family) from the birthday party your mom made you watch.

Um, no thanks. I mean, I'm glad this is a Seattle story and all, but really, no interest at all here on my side.

Re:Kludgy

[maddskillz]

The component cables are pretty hard to mess up. The three video cables come bundled and the audio cables are in a separate bundle, so they don't look that similar. Also, most people who will be hooking up with component cables are probably using the fiber optic cable to hook it to there receiver, for surround sound

Ob. Penny Arcade

[jackbird]

In addition, the camera will also be used for facemapping technology in Activision's World Series Of Poker game.

WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you putting fun in quotes? I actually do have fun playing games... I take it that you don't?

Resolution has nothing to do with it; I've had a lot of fun from 1600x1200 on PC down to 1280x720 on 360 down to ~640x480 on PS2* and down again to the DS at 256x384 and finally down to the GBA at 240x160. All of them can be a lot of fun, with the right games. If you can play Alien Hominid on GBA and not have a good time you don't have a soul, or you should at least give up gaming.

*/cube/dc/saturn/n64/snes... you get the picture.

FPS controller??

[AK__64]

I would soooo buy one, just so I can stop sucking so bad at Halo 2. It's embarrassing. I don't even have an Xbox and I would seriously consider buying one. I hate playing FPSes on the console...

Back to basics...

[matthobbs05]

... and the likelihood that Microsoft will release a new controller designed specifically for FPSes.

Keyboard and mouse?

Re:Back to basics...

[Anonymous Coward]

Its not 1998. Keyboard and mouse for games is soooo outdated.

I just want to see GameShark

[Travoltus]

and Action Replay Max for the 360.

What ever happened to "I own this console now"? Nowdays it's "you buy this console but WE decide how you use it".

I'm sure glad they don't do that with cars! Imagine no Toyotas Celicas being allowed to have spoilers..

Oh wait, bad example.......

Re:I just want to see GameShark

[DeeDob]

Action Replay is a really bad example.

The problem with tinkering with the console isn't that you mess around with a MS / Sony / Whatever product. It's that since the console is now online, YOUR tinkering on YOUR console can actually affect the gameplay of OTHERS.

Action Replay can mess-up online gaming in some games. It is a form of cheating.

agreed

[Travoltus]

I never use AR for anything online, I didn't even think that was possible. All my uses of AR or Gameshark are for single player games; I don't ever want to play via X Box Live and have to pay for it. Perhaps AR should regulate themselves better with regards to this?

Tetris Worlds is "wonderful bullshit"

[tepples]

and Tetris clones!

Google "actually breaks Tetris" or "such wonderful bullshit" to see what people think of the latest Tetris® brand games, and you'll see why some people would rather play a clone.

Re:Tetris Worlds is "wonderful bullshit"

[generic-man]

I've played hundreds of matches of Tetris® DS on-line on my Nintendo DS and I'll play hundreds more. Tetris® DS is even more enjoyable than Tetrinet, which I played quite a lot back in the day.

I agree with you that Tetris Worlds absolutely blew. I was amazed at its craptacularity the first time I played it.

Tetris DS is just as broken

[tepples]

The following interaction between infinite spin and the scoring system was recently discovered on tetrisconcept.com: Go into Tetris DS and start a standard game. Place any tetromino except O over a flat surface. Hold down, and before the tetromino locks, rapidly press B A B A B A. Watch the score go up. The only time infinite spin is turned off is when you play multiplayer, in which case the tetromino locks after a preset number of seconds.

Re:Tetris DS is just as broken

[generic-man]

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I've played Tetris DS multiplayer hundreds of times, and I'll play it hundreds more.

All the various Tetris clones offer an amazing single-player mode, but Tetris DS + wifi = addictiveness reborn.

Best of luck with Letris, Netris, Oetris, Metris, Petris, Quetris, Setris, Vetris, and all the other innovative homebrew games you can play on your GamePark GP2X Linux handheld gaming console dot net.