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TiVo Wins Permanent Injunction Against EchoStar
ZenFodderBoy writes "It's official! Judge Folsom entered his ruling today granting TiVo nearly $90 million in damages, plus granting a permanent injunction calling for the disabling of nearly all of EchoStar's DVRs within the next 30 days. EchoStar's motion to stay the injunction pending appeal was denied. Additionally, the judge reserves the right to grant additional damages in the future, so treble damages may still be coming. Excellent news for TiVo!"
Echostar = Dish Network's parent company.
EchoStar must disable DVRs, judge rules
"No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
No they don't, the whole purpose of patent law allows for a developing party to be the only one allowed to make a certain innovatinve product so they can recover development costs and make a profit off of the idea. Then after a certain period of time they cannot receive funds from companies that wish to develop a product that does the same thing.
This helps encourage innovation by protecting the innovators from competition that could prevent them from recovering development costs. So in the end it does help the consumer because while at first only a few may be able pay for the cost of the product it shows to other companies that it is a product many more would be willing to buy.
Echostar played fast and loose with Tivo's IP. It's great that you seem to think Tivo is owed money, but it's Echostar that decided it was worth the risk. Echostar's customers don't have Echostar DVRs because Echostar thought they could get away with something and didn't. I don't see how Tivo takes the fall for that.
I could have told you that years ago. That's the main reason I put together my own DVR about 4 years ago, rather than buying (and hacking) a Tivo or ReplayTV unit.
It has worked out more wonderfully than I could have imagined. The 1 week of taming Linux TV-tuner modules looks so insignificant in hindsight, and is really a one-time thing, as I've set-up DVRs for others in under an hour (each).
No messy, stupid tricks or hacks needed to get my video over to my computer to edit, reencode, and burn it. No posibility of my viewing habits being tracked by anyone. No posibility of being unable to get TV listings in the distant future. No problems installing as many hard drives as I want. No hassling with tech support and Fedex (or buying a whole new system) when the power supply goes out... etc.
All I need is to plug-in any HDTV tuner card, and I'm ready to keep this same box going for the next 100 years, potentially.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
There are many cable companies that now provide DVR capabilities with their service (usually part of a digital cable package -- gives a lot of the same channels available from Dish, DirecTv, etc.). I can't comment on the pricing because I don't use our local provider's DVR service, but I imagine it is comparable to what you're paying for Dish PVR.
DirecTV is actually a TiVo licensee. Up until recently, all DirecTV DVRs actually ran TiVo software. Three months ago, TiVo signed a deal with DirecTV to extend the licensing arrangement until 2009. TiVo will continue to service the ~2 million DirecTV DVRs based on TiVo software, and both parties specifically agreed not to sue each other over patents as happened with Dish Network/Echostar.
http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_85.html
All Echostar users should go to the setup menu now and "disable automatic updates". It's a pity that updates, which used to mean improvements, can now mean less functionality. Go to your box(es) now, and disable all update check boxes !
The trial judge did not award treble damages to Tivo because Echostar sought outside counsel that, as it turned out, incorrectly told them that their DVR would not be infringing on Tivo's right. There was no "playing fast and loose" here. Echostar did exactly what any company should do, but still got burned in the process.
In the settings of my DVR there is a menu that lets you disable automatic downloaded updates, I plan on setting it to that tonight. YIKES!!
Science is the Real TRUTH!
DirecTV hasn't provided TiVo's to customers for most of this year, they have their own inhouse brand DVR now the R15. They still support their customer with the TiVo's however.
Well, bear in mind one of the reasons the Judge felt that way was because of evidence that Echostar hasn't actually been allowed to present. Specifically, it received outside legal advice that said that the DVRs it was about to, (and subsequently did), deploy did not violate TiVo's patents.
That's significant, because from Echostar's point of view, TiVo would have appeared to be the upstart patent abuser that intended to use lawsuits to shut down a legitimate competitor rather than some company whose technology it "copied" and those patents its abusing. If you're of that mindset, then going to court and fighting the case at every step isn't a matter of bleeding a competitor dry, it's a matter of necessity otherwise every patent troll in the business is going to see you as a soft target.
If Echostar genuinely believed it wasn't violating patents and that TiVo was yet another patent troll, and the judge seems to have access to evidence that that is indeed what Echostar thought, then that puts Echostar in the same moral position as IBM vs SCO. IBM could be argued, using the logic you presented, to be acting in "bad faith" because they too are refusing to settle and the logical outcome of the IBM case will be the bankruptsy of SCO.
Simply fighting your case, come what may, because you believe your side to be right, knowing that the logical outcome is the bankrupsy of a competitor, isn't necessarily a bad thing. Indeed, if you believe that the competitor is a actually abusing the law by suing you in the first place, that bankrupsy may be a legitimate secondary aim.
As I'm not actually involved in Echostar or TiVo except in being an affected customer of Dish Network, I'm not going to judge the case beyond that, but it certainly sounds to me that the Judge may have legitimate reasons to believe Echostar acted in good faith, even when it may look to many outsiders like that isn't the case. In this case, the Judge appears to know things that have not been released publicly in court. Those things do change radically the picture of why Echostar would be fighting this case. Most of us wouldn't blame anyone for taking a patent lawsuit against an organization they believe to be abusive to the logical end-point. Personally, as someone who finds the entire patent system extremely dubious, I wish that were the case in every case.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMER AGREEMENT
I guess making it so it doesn't record anything is just a change of "features"... it's still a clock, right?If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
Never let a mediocre career stand in the way of a good time
I think you should actually read some info about Tivo before spouting off about it like that.
A) Tivo DOES have the ability to record only first-run episodes of a show, as well as All episodes. It also has the ability to only record episodes you haven't recorded in the last 28 days.
B) There is NO such clause in any contract from Tivo that states if you watch something you are contractually obligated to pay for service for a year. A normal monthly subscription is just that - monthly. If I don't want the service next month, I stop paying. It's that simple. The only contract remotely close to what you are talking about is some of the newer subscription options where you sign a contract for a year of service - just like cell-phone contracts. Do cell phone companies lock you in for a year because you text-messaged someone? I think not. Tivo contracts work the same way.
The whole reason this litigation took place was that Echostar did NOTHING new, just copied Tivo as close as they could. That is why they are being punished.
Move on, troll. Stop spreading misinformation.
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/presski t/press/index.shtml
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
The location of this judgement is a popular one for patent trolls, since juries in this area side with patent holders about 40% more than the "average" US jury does.
Of course, this particular injunction was immediately stopped by a higher court:
EchoStar Announces Federal Circuit Blocks Tivo Injunction
ENGLEWOOD, Colo.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 18, 2006--EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) issued the following statement regarding recent developments in the Tivo Inc. v. EchoStar Communications Corp. lawsuit:
"We are pleased that this morning, the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C. temporarily blocked an injunction issued by a Texas Court, while it considers a longer-term stay of that injunction.
As a result of the stay EchoStar can continue to sell, and provide to consumers, all of its digital video recorder models. We continue to believe the Texas decision was wrong, and should be reversed on appeal. We also continue to work on modifications to our new DVRs, and to our DVRs in the field, intended to avoid future alleged infringement."
About EchoStar
EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) serves more than 12.46 million satellite TV customers through its DISH Network(TM), the fastest growing U.S. provider of advanced digital television services in the last five years. DISH Network offers hundreds of video and audio channels, Interactive TV, HDTV, sports and international programming, together with professional installation and 24-hour customer service.
CONTACT: EchoStar Communications Corporation
Kathie Gonzalez, 720-514-5351
press@echostar.com
SOURCE: EchoStar Communications Corporation
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
My S2 Tivos haven't been hooked up to a phone line since the day I bought them.
Before networking was officially supported, there was a dial-prefix string you could use that would enable basic ethernet support via USB.
Now networking is officially supported in later releases and you don't need the dial-prefix, just a network adapter.
To misquote Churchill, never has an operating system (FreeBSD) used by so many been administered by so few. - NetCraft
The injunction has been blocked: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854& p=irol-newsArticle&ID=897186&highlight=