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Is the U3 Smart Drive Encryption Any Good?

Carlos asks: "I was searching encryption software for USB pen drives, and came across the U3 Smart Drive platform which offers portability and privacy through software and hardware. There are already several well-known hardware manufacturers offering U3 Smart Drives. Do they are really better than a plain USB drive plus encryption software such as TrueCrypt or it's just marketing hype?"

61 comments

  1. PC Magazine Review by tgtanman · · Score: 5, Informative

    PCMag did a review of the U3 technology (though the review is almost a year old)

  2. u3 just doesn't work by cliffhanger407 · · Score: 5, Informative

    U3 doesn't work any better than any other encryption. in fact, if anything, a corporate level encryption is always going to have better product quality control than U3. Plus, U3 doesn't work on probably 50% of the machines i have to put it into (tech support=putting in jump drive 50+ times a day), which means that if it doesn't work then there's no way to get it unencrypted. Basically any computer system which doesn't permit access to the AppData folder means it doesn't load the U3 software. (It claims it doesn't install anything, but it's definitely there). The other thing is that there are a lot of programs which just don't like U3 and will crash it even if you have the right permissions. Plus, it doesn't work on mac or linux.

    1. Re:u3 just doesn't work by tropicdog · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Plus, U3 doesn't work on probably 50% of the machines"

      I totally agree, in many Corporate environments these are going to be functionally useless. A recent helpdesk case I worked on involved one of these U3 drives. Because U3 basically creates a partition that tells Windows that it is a read only CDROM format, CD burning software would not function at all and Windows (Win2000 in this instance with limited user rights applied) totally locked up until the U3 drive was removed.
      Management gave me a 1GB version to use on the job. I was annoyed with the auto-launch feature it provided and promptly searched for and downloaded the U3 removal utility. I gained the space that U3 occupied on the drive and can use it on any computer in our environment w/o problems.

    2. Re:u3 just doesn't work by Wilk4 · · Score: 1
      I had a similar experience. Just plugging a new thumb drive with U3 s/w on it into my home PC would cause it to completely lock up. (winxp-pro, updated).

      It would work on some other PCs, but I basically wanted it for storage, so ended up removing the U3 stuff rather than going through an extended debug process to get it working on my PC. Works fine now as a straight storage drive without the U3.

  3. great timing! by Zen · · Score: 1

    I am thinking about purchasing some of these for my team members at work, but I couldn't figure out what the differences are between U3 and Migo. I also can't find any 4GB U3 thumbdrives - the largest I could find was 2. Anyone know what the pros and cons of the two formats are?

    1. Re:great timing! by cliffhanger407 · · Score: 1

      don't know much about migo, but i've got a 4gb sandisk cruzer micro in my hand with u3 on it. i don't recommend u3 at all and maybe migo's different, but the first thing i ever do on these drives is uninstall the preinstalled software.

    2. Re:great timing! by Goggi · · Score: 1

      I got the Sandisk 4GB Cruzer Micro with U3 but got rid of the U3 part as it was mostly annoying. Other than that it's a convenient, spacey usb-stick with ok speed. For the current price (~110 in Sweden) I'd recommend it.

    3. Re:great timing! by pyrote · · Score: 1

      Actually Migo is a subset program of U3... it's a desktop sync program. AFAIK it has a non u3 counterpart. also, to be honest, I wasn't impressed with the combo as I had it all setup perfectly, then a stupid glitch made the U3 drive useless on my main machine.

      I promptly ran the un-intaller and never looked back.

      --
      THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!! eventually.
    4. Re:great timing! by chabo29 · · Score: 1

      U3 is a platform and Migo is a standaolne application. I have a U3 Drive and I also tried Migo with it and some other applications. I needed an application to sync my Outlook between different PCs since I don't have an exchange server and the only application that allowed me to do that on a U3 Drive was Carry it Easy +Plus http://software.u3.com/Product_Details.aspx?Produc tId=179&Selection=1&Lang=en-US&Position=ENHPFS2F The software also has 128 bit AES encryption and makes your data sufficiently safe. I can not say how the U3 encryption is since my U3 drive doesn't offer this.

  4. U3 sucks infinitely by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

    Go look for the Geek Squad U3 Remover immediately.

    --
    Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    1. Re:U3 sucks infinitely by NMThor · · Score: 3, Informative

      To uninstall, check out FAQ #6 @ http://www.u3.com/support/default.aspx

    2. Re:U3 sucks infinitely by WilliamSChips · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, didn't know about that. When I was trying to remove that crap I did a Google search and ended up on an Ars page which told me to use the Geek Squad's remover.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    3. Re:U3 sucks infinitely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or as we say around here: RTFM

    4. Re:U3 sucks infinitely by stuuf · · Score: 1

      You really need a remover program for that? what's wrong with a simple dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX ?

      --

      Everyone is born right-handed; only the greatest overcome it

    5. Re:U3 sucks infinitely by gweihir · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What's wrong with a simple dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX

      While personally I feel this is the way to go (I would use dd_rescue, but that does not matter), it seems the level of insight needed to understand and do this simple and clear operation is not available to the general public.

      It seems people do not want to do things that can be understood easily. They want to do things that look easy, i.e. click some button or run a programm that does a single, highly speciaalised operation and takes no parameters.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re:U3 sucks infinitely by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      A U3 drive is two partitions by default. One of them, the one with U3 itself on it, is read-only.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    7. Re:U3 sucks infinitely by stuuf · · Score: 1

      AFAIK, there is no such thing as a read-only partition. The U3 partition is just a partition formatted with ISO9660; and Windows can only read (not write) that filesystem since it was designed for read-only CD media. I assume all the remover tool does is erase the partition table and add one partition covering the entire device and format it with FAT. I don't get why slashdot users seem to have been completely lost and confused before they found the remover tool.

      --

      Everyone is born right-handed; only the greatest overcome it

    8. Re:U3 sucks infinitely by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      When you try to erase things in that way, it'll pop right back up next time you install Windows. Why is it so hard to understand that even slashdotters don't always like to use 1337 7r1ck5 to just GET THE FUCKING THING OFF THE DRIVE?

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    9. Re:U3 sucks infinitely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      FYI, I tried this on my U3 drive and it didn't work. Only the removal utility seemed to get rid of it. My guess is that U3 is more than just software - there must be some firmware-level thing that reserves its disk space and emulates a CD-ROM drive...

  5. U3 Pro's and cons by DarkMantle · · Score: 4, Informative

    Lets cover some U3 Pro's and cons (I have a U3 USB Drive from Geek Squad)

    Pro - Portable Apps, including firefox and thunderbird so your cookies aren't left behind when you do online banking at a public computer.
    Con - Only works on WinXP

    Pro - password protect your data so that confidential information is not easily accessable.
    Con - a script could continue to try passwords from a list in an attempt to login.

    Basically, the password protection stops the U3 drive from showing the volume. But multiple attempts to login do not result in time delays, or lockouts. Basically a script could keep the autorun going and sending different words or key presses until it gains access. Brute force kind of behaviour.

    But the drive will say "insert a disk into drive X:" if the password is not entered.

    So, not bad, never tried hacking it, but it could potentially be brute forced.

    --
    DarkMantle I been bored, so I started a blog.
    1. Re:U3 Pro's and cons by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 3, Informative

      Pro - Portable Apps, including firefox and thunderbird so your cookies aren't left behind when you do online banking at a public computer.
      Con - Only works on WinXP

      But there's certainly nothing stopping you from using Portable Firefox or Portable Thunderbird or Portable OpenOffice on a regular flash drive, and "U3 Technology" only works with certain U3-aware applications so it's not like you can encapsulate any program and make it U3-aware. I figured right away this was a completely useless feature and blew it away using the uninstaller. Unfortunately you seem to need a Windows box to run the uninstaller so I had to go hunt one down to remove this garbage since I use Macs 99% of the time.
    2. Re:U3 Pro's and cons by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Unless I'm very wrong, brute-forcing can be pretty easily averted by simply using a long enough password. Last I checked, 8 chars is secure.

      Remember, if it's a standard USB drive, then as I understand it, any software mechanism to force things like time delays would be easily circumvented by simply not using that software. But then, I hear things like "doesn't work on Mac/Linux", so that makes me think it's not quite standard, so maybe they could force something like this in hardware?

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    3. Re:U3 Pro's and cons by jmorris42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      > Unless I'm very wrong, brute-forcing can be pretty easily averted by simply using a long enough password. Last I checked, 8 chars is secure.

      Wrong. 500 characters wouldn't secure a piece of crap like that. It is software only encryption, written by people who almost certainly don't understand the concept, and sold to people who don't understand that putting a flash drive in some random PC at an Internet cafe is unsafe.

      Don't you people understand what that means? Odds are the password gets XORed with something lame and stored on the flash drive. Only a matter of time before somebody gets around to disassembling the crapware Win32 executable and writing a point and shoot password extraction program. Yes they COULD have done the crypto right but we know they didn't... or should know by now. After all they need a back way in themselves so they can unlock drives when somebody forgets their password and whines long enough on the support lines or when some LEO is looking for kiddie porn.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    4. Re:U3 Pro's and cons by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      You just prove my point. There's no point in brute-forcing, and you haven't convinced me that it would be possible to brute force it.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  6. U3 'encryption' is a joke by HaloZero · · Score: 4, Informative

    All of ten minutes and a copy of Acronis yielded the sum of the data on an 'encrypted' U3 Cruzer disk. All the password protection thing does is prevent the drive from mounting correctly in Windows.

    I didn't bother testing the drive on my mac before I just blew the U3 partition away.

    --
    Informatus Technologicus
    1. Re:U3 'encryption' is a joke by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm beginning to agree with you that U3 security is a joke. After googling for about 10 minutes here I've not been able to find much 'real' information on the security of U3. Its all press releases loaded with buzzwords, and no whitepapers telling how the drives work and which encryption standards are present.

      That concerns me, encryption is far eaiser to get wrong then right. On the TrueCrypt forums they are pretty good at telling you how bad there dog food is, and how to to lessen these risks. I'll stick with TC and a good security policy for now.

    2. Re:U3 'encryption' is a joke by gweihir · · Score: 1

      All of ten minutes and a copy of Acronis yielded the sum of the data on an 'encrypted' U3 Cruzer disk. All the password protection thing does is prevent the drive from mounting correctly in Windows.

      Well, that does not make it a joke, but a lie. I believe this should a) get them fined b) make them liable if somebody trusts the thing and gets burned.

      I don't think that bad crypto should make them liable, but claiming crypto and then having none should.

      Maybe bad products like these are the source of the common (but wrong) wisdom that "anything encrypted by humans can be decrypted by humans".

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:U3 'encryption' is a joke by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 3, Informative

      You know there is always a better or faster or cheaper way. With this program it is the same as with a car. There is no 100% protection, but it help's a lot to lock it.

      </sarcasm>

      Actually, the WebSafe "Website Encryption" is much better for keeping away "prying ices" than U3. At least WebSafe actually does some kind of encryption, even if the decryption algorithm and the keys are right there in the source code for everyone to see. U3, on the other hand, at least appears to claim encryption where there is none. I'll direct you to their website, where they claim:

      The U3 platform is designed to leave no trace of the user's data or application usage on the host computer after the smart drive is removed. The U3 platform also supports the creation of security solutions to protect the privacy and security of user data and applications. These solutions include encrypted files and folders, and sign-on and password protection and management.

      Oh, I get it. They "support the creation" of encryption, when actually, if you look at their smart drive page, the word "encryption" is nowhere to be found. Instead, it's all about "Password Management" -- so they keep themselves clean, but it's obviously confusing enough to fool customers, especially when others claim "Secure data encryption" on what they call a "U3 Smart Drive", although I can't figure out whether Verbatim is wrong/lying or whether they've simply taken the existing U3 software and actually added encryption.

      Or maybe there's some other loophole. But even if I wasn't planning on using the encryption, I wouldn't do business with these jokers. (U3, not necessarily Verbatim.) It's clearly designed to fool people into thinking they're getting something they're not, which really makes them no better than the WebSafe moron -- and perhaps significantly worse, as the WebSafe guy may actually still believe his product is worth something.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  7. Read this thread from last night. by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

    Read this thread.

    Funny how the timing works out. One of the U3 techs stopped in here, and responded to comments and questions. Interesting answers.. (And yes, I made a fool of myself at the beginning.)

    1. Re:Read this thread from last night. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Too bad the rep was a sexist jerk.

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=194476&cid=159 38653

      But Sweetie Darling, U3 smart devices DO NOT install anything on the host computer. No special drivers, no special sauce... in fact our certification program (which EVERY application sold through U3 Software Central must pass) does not allow ANYTHING to be installed on the host computer. So... what was your point again?

  8. TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by kasperd · · Score: 5, Informative

    TrueCrypt makes use of tweakable block ciphers. The idea with tweakable block ciphers is good, but it is no magic bullet. And unfortunately TrueCrypt reuse the tweaks every time the same sector is overwritten, which means the proofs for security of tweakable block ciphers does not apply to TrueCrypt. Depending on the attack scenario this may a threat. Using a USB stick is going to make this problem worse.

    It is not the USB protocol which is a problem, but rather the fact that a USB stick store the data in flash using a wear leveling algorithm. That means that even though from TrueCrypt's point of view it is writing to the same sector number, it is physically writing to different flash cells. This again means, that for some time both the old and the new version may physically exist in the storage. This means anybody who are able to read the physical flash cells without going through the wear leveling code will have access to the necesary data to exploit this weakness.

    I don't know anything about U3, so I cannot tell you for sure if it is better or worse than TrueCrypt. But with the number of weaknesses which have been seen in storage encryptions, I'd expect anything new to have a few of its own. In spite of the minor weakness in TrueCrypt, I'd still perefer that over something with weaknesses I don't know about.

    My advice for encryption on USB sticks is to not rely on transparent encryption and rather use something like GPG. Of course combining TrueCrypt and GPG is not going to harm security. GPG encrypted files on a TrueCrypt encrypted storage should be pretty safe.

    --

    Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    1. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      You can add one more step to improve security on USB drives in your scenerio, but it comes out of the USB drives life expectancy.

      Get a program like Eraser (free, but for MS operating systems). Choose erease free space after installing. This will fill the remaining space on the drive with files, then overwrite them to the security level you choose. I would recommend only doing a single pass psudeorandom free space wipe, but do it every time before you remove the drive from the computer.

      Is there any spec's on what encryption type/standard U3 is using?

    2. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by kasperd · · Score: 2, Informative
      Choose erease free space after installing. This will fill the remaining space on the drive with files, then overwrite them to the security level you choose.
      I agree this will add a little bit of security. But as this happens on a higher layer than the wear leveling, there is no guarantee that it will actually overwrite the physical locations you are interested in overwriting. Of course if you do multiple passes, I'd expect the wear leveling to spread them evenly over all locations including the ones you needed wiped. And BTW you don't need any unfree software to do it, you can just create a file filling all free space and then use the wipe command.

      Is there any spec's on what encryption type/standard U3 is using?
      That is indeed a very relevant question. If you come across an encryption were such a specification is not available for anybody to read, assume it is because the encryption is no good. If the specification is too vague and only states the name of a block cipher being used such as AES and doesn't tell you in detail what mode it is using, I'd also avoid it. And if it ever states anything like military strength encryption, I'd avoid it. TrueCrypt is one of the best documented storage encryptions I know about.
      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    3. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by gweihir · · Score: 1

      This means anybody who are able to read the physical flash cells without going through the wear leveling code will have access to the necesary data to exploit this weakness.

      Good point. I assume this is actually aa problem of tweakable block ciphers? Since ordinary ciphers need to be secure when you get different data encrypted with the same key. Otherwise the simple attack on any sector-based encryption would be to read the raw data at different times....

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by kasperd · · Score: 2, Informative
      I assume this is actually aa problem of tweakable block ciphers?
      Not really. If you just used an ordinary cipher instead of a tweakable cipher, the problem would be much worse. However using an ordinary cipher in CBC mode does not have this problem. CBC is a probabilistic encryption, which means same data encrypted more than once will produce different data. But this also means data grows, which is inconvenient for a transparent storage encryption.

      Tweakable block ciphers is an elegant solution for this problem. But it is no magic bullet. If you reuse a tweak, it is no more secure than an ordinary cipher. And even if you don't reuse a tweak you still cannot use it more times than the birthday limit imposed by the block size. (AFAIR the number of times you can safely reuse a tweakable block cipher is two or three times less that of an ordinary cipher).

      You could actually replace the cipher in a CBC encryption with a tweakable cipher and get something slightly safer. But the quite common practice in storage encryptions of replacing the random IV in a CBC encryption with a deterministic value is always going to be insecure. The extra space is provably necesarry (shown independently by Kristian Gjøsteen and myself).

      It is possible to come up with ways to generate the tweak in a way that requires less disk space than the random IV for CBC encryption. So for that reason tweakable ciphers is clearly an interesting way to do storage encryption. But as soon as you have a space overhead, however little it may be, you have a problem with atomicity of updates. That means you are going to need extra copies of some of the data to avoid data loss in case the system for whatever reason doesn't complete an update. But you could still have significantly less overhead than the random IV for CBC encryption. CBC would usually be 3-6% overhead, a clever system designed using tweakable block ciphers could use less than 1% overhead. Now if I could just come up with an efficient way to detect the need for recovering an incomplete write....

      Otherwise the simple attack on any sector-based encryption would be to read the raw data at different times....
      Unfortunately most sector-based encryption schemes does have such a weakness. The impact of the weakness may differ from the worst encryption leaking everything to the best encryption leaking only the sector number of writes and when a write is identical to something that earlier existed in the same sector. TrueCrypt is somewhere between these two extremes. The best deterministic encryptions I know of requires approximately twice as much CPU time than the more secure probabilistic encryptions.
      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    5. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by gweihir · · Score: 1

      The impact of the weakness may differ from the worst encryption leaking everything to the best encryption leaking only the sector number of writes and when a write is identical to something that earlier existed in the same sector.

      Ok, now I see what you mean. For example CBC with fixed IV leaks more, possibly even a file fingerprint. In comparison EME or ABL mode only leak whether a sector is the same as before. There was quite an interesting discussion about this on the dm-crypt mailing list. (Interesting to a crypto user, such as me, as opposed to interesting to a crypto researcher...)

      Personally I would be content with only having leak out when a sector holds identical data as before. If I need more I can use GNUpg on the individual file.

      The problem with additional data is a hard (practically) one. Either you sacrifice atomicity. Or you do a 2-phase commit or the like and risk a major performaance impact. Or you sacrifice sector size (and store the extra data in there), and run into huge problems with current filesystems and buffer algorithms that are designed for a very specific sector size.

      BTW, that the extra data is necessary in CBC is pretty easy the see. Assume you store pure random data (maximum entropy). You absolutely have to add more entropy to a sector make the same data unrecognisable on a second write, since unrecognisability here means more information. But since a 512 byte sector cannot hold more than 512 bytes of entropy, no matter what, and the 512 bytes are already occupied by the original data, you have to have extra space to add more entropy. QED

      There, now also shown independently by Gweihir. (Sorry, could not resist.)

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 2, Informative

      TrueCrypt no longer uses CBC in the latest versions, LRW mode has been the default mode since some time in the 4.1 version and beyond.

    7. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by kasperd · · Score: 1
      For example CBC with fixed IV leaks more, possibly even a file fingerprint.
      Indeed, it is easy to construct a file which is easilly recognized after being encrypted with such a scheme. In fact I constructed one a long time ago, it is here. (OK this file only applies to some of the weakest IVs, but you get the point). However LRW also allows fingerprinting, but only if you can get two versions of the encrypted sectors, one version with the file, and another version with zeros.

      Personally I would be content with only having leak out when a sector holds identical data as before.
      Might be acceptable for most users, but as I pointed out earlier, the algorithms I know for this have a significant CPU overhead. If you know a solution for this without the performance penalty, I'd very much like to hear about it.

      Either you sacrifice atomicity. Or you do a 2-phase commit or the like and risk a major performaance impact. Or you sacrifice sector size (and store the extra data in there)
      Or you come up with a clever combination of the different algorithms. Actually I don't know exactly what a 2-phase commit is, but a possible approach goes as follows. You consider the disk as a number of regions where each region consist of 200 data sectors and a metadata sector at each end. The metadata contains a 16 byte tweak common to all sectors in the region and a 16 bit counter per sector. The two are concatenated with the sector number to construct a unique tweak.

      Now you can update the first metadata sector, then update any subset of the data sectors, and finally update the second metadata sector. You get two extra writes no matter how many of the sectors you updated, and you essentially don't get any extra seeks. And for each sector at least one of the two metadata sectors will be usable. You will have to duplicate the least significant bit of the counter into the data sector so you will know which meta data sector to use. That lost bit will easilly fit in the meta data sector. And there is enough space left over in the meta data sector to do a probablistic encryption of the meta data sector.

      There are a few drawbacks, for example you need to reencrypt the entire region each time a counter wraps, but the ammortized time required for that is insignificant. You can do the structure kind of recursively to avoid most of the full region reeencryption. The only problem left which I don't have a complete solution for yet is, that each write operation would have to start by comparing the two metadata sectors to know if a recovery is required.

      There, now also shown independently by Gweihir.I never said the proof was complicated. ;-) Yet some people claim algorithms not using the extra space to be more secure than a probabilistic encryption. So apparently some people are unable to prove it.
      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    8. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by kasperd · · Score: 2, Informative
      TrueCrypt no longer uses CBC in the latest versions, LRW mode has been the default mode since some time in the 4.1 version and beyond.
      I compared the encryption used by TrueCrypt to CBC, that is very different from saying TrueCrypt uses CBC. In fact what TrueCrypt used to use is the not quite CBC mode you get by replacing the random IV with the sector number. The new mode did eliminate the very easy fingerprinting, but introduced a different kind of fingerprinting possible as long as you could get multiple versions of the same sector. A real CBC mode would be more secure than both of them, but a bit unpractical.

      And if you carefully read my description from before, you should recognize, that it is the mode known as LRW. I don't like the name of that mode, because to me it looks like this mode was invented by someone who read the article by Liskov, Rivest, and Wagner but did not fully understand it.
      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    9. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by nonlnear · · Score: 1
      I agree this will add a little bit of security. But as this happens on a higher layer than the wear leveling, there is no guarantee that it will actually overwrite the physical locations you are interested in overwriting. Of course if you do multiple passes, I'd expect the wear leveling to spread them evenly over all locations including the ones you needed wiped. And BTW you don't need any unfree software to do it, you can just create a file filling all free space and then use the wipe command.
      If it fills ALL the free space on the drive, then pigeonhole principle says the cells you wanted to overwrite were overwritten. (That is, if the software overwrites all the free space before removing the dummy files.) IANACS/CE - am I oversimplifying this?
      --
      argumentum ad fallacium: Fallacy of defining a fallacy which allows one to dismiss the argument in question.
    10. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by kasperd · · Score: 1
      If it fills ALL the free space on the drive, then pigeonhole principle says the cells you wanted to overwrite were overwritten.
      The point is, that the size of the media depends on what level you are looking at. The wear leveling requires some extra physical space (I don't know how much), so the logical size which the USB unit reports to the system is smaller than the physical flash size. This means if you overwrite all sectors on the logical layer seen by the computer, you have not overwritten all of the physical storage.

      Does someone here know how large is the physical flash on a 512MB usb stick? Are we talking about 640MB, 1GB, 2GB?
      --

      Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
    11. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by gweihir · · Score: 1
      Personally I would be content with only having leak out when a sector holds identical data as before.

      Might be acceptable for most users, but as I pointed out earlier, the algorithms I know for this have a significant CPU overhead. If you know a solution for this without the performance penalty, I'd very much like to hear about it.


      I don't think there is one. But here is something else: Harddisk speed is increasing significantly slower than CPU speed (or harddisk size). Using double encryption (CBC twice, the IV for the second pass is the last block from the first), a secure mode can be done at worst half as fast than a single CBC (I dont have numberts for the more complicated modes). Today that is almost as fast as a notebook harddisk on a high-end CPU. I expect that in a few years, a single CPU will be able to match a normal disk. And with dual-cores becomming common, but paralellisation still an issue, the overall impact on user available CPU performance will drop and become insignificant. Also the disk slowdown by encryption will become imperceptible. So I think the problem will actually go away.


      Actually I don't know exactly what a 2-phase commit is, but a possible approach goes as follows.


      Two phase commit is from databases to ensure atomicity in the face of nonatomic writes. It basically has similar properties to what you describe, but it gets around the problem with the extra bit per secor or the global table duplication. What you do it that you have a journal where you write all updates first, i.e. [sector number][new IV][sector]. Then you make sure the journal is written to disk. At your leisure you update the sector and IV on disk (IV still in a table, but only one needed now). Optinally later you shorten the journal.
      This has two advantages:

      • It does not slow down the disk if you use somwhat less than its maximum speed. Also writing the journal is all sequential, so very efficient. And you can gather IV table updates for some time before writing them to disk. Of course, if you write faster, the journal gets full or some maximum uncommited data threshold is reached (you keep the journal in memory as well for speed) and you are down to some larger sequential writes (the jounral), your original writes and the updates to the IV tables (but gathered together for the sectors in the journal). I don't know what the overhead will be, but intuition tells me something like 30% speed loss should be realistic.

      • You don't need to put the journal on the same disk as the data. This can further improve speed, if you have a second disk, some flash, or some othe non-volatile storage at your disposal. Since all writes are sequential, it can even be on a tape drive in extreme cases.
      There, now also shown independently by Gweihir.

      I never said the proof was complicated. ;-) Yet some people claim algorithms not using the extra space to be more secure than a probabilistic encryption. So apparently some people are unable to prove it.

      That does not surprise me. There are a many, many people out there that are unwilling to expand their skills and insights, especially those that are not aware of their limitations in the first place. I call this ''incompetence of the second order''.

      The proof is still worthwhile publishing (as I take it you have done), especially since some of the people that cannot prove it will at least have a look into the literature bevore implementing something. Sadly it seems even that effort is too much for many.
      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    12. Re:TrueCrypt is not for USB sticks by nonlnear · · Score: 1

      Thanks. That was very helpful.

      --
      argumentum ad fallacium: Fallacy of defining a fallacy which allows one to dismiss the argument in question.
  9. Why not use TrueCrypt? by darnok · · Score: 1

    Free, runs on Windows & Linux, lets you load a filesystem into a single file.

    I use it every day, and it just works. Can't recommend it highly enough

  10. n-Tegrity by NetHunter · · Score: 1

    A much safer and better (and more functioning solution in the corporate environment) is the http://www.n-trance.biz/products/biometrics/bufd.h tmln-Tegrity device from http://www.n-trance.biz/n-Trance Security. Not only it supports very strong (AES256) encryption, it also uses your fingerprint instead of a password, so it's much more convinient. And (suprisingly) the fingerprint sensor works really well. I use one every day.

    --
    -- Hiroshima '45... Chernobyl '86... Windows '95...
  11. U3 from the trenches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I've worked on a couple of commercial programs for U3. It works, but except for the cool graphics it's sort of a senior project-type thing: clunky, very buggy, very quirky and tricky to get right. In particular, avoid the Sandisk Cruzer: the vast majority of problems we've had (randomly refusing to mount, refusing to load software that other brands have no trouble with, and repeatedly corrupted files, both ours and theirs) came from that brand.

    While I don't know of any U3-specific security problems, the combination of an immature proprietary platform, software hurriedly ported to it to grab market share, and USB-drive hackery by multiple makers to make it work practically guarantees they're there. From experience, it can take some pretty weird tricks to make a converted program work, and a lot of such "tricks" don't get tested as well as the original system was, either.

  12. "dd" vs. the button by slide-rule · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It seems people do not want to do things that can be understood easily. They want to do things that look easy, i.e. click some button or run a programm that does a single, highly speciaalised operation and takes no parameters.

    Easy with the generalizations. For what it's worth, "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/dsX" takes up some amount of mental storage, be it rote memory or full-out understanding. That little piece of knowledge itself is a fairly highly specialized operation. OTOH, a well designed UI with a button that says "click me, and I'll fix your problem" saves the average joe from the necessary year (or so) of learning required to have the contextual foundation to appreciate what "dd" even is, let alone how to use it.


    Beyond that, Apple has done one better with their Automator tool... click-n-drag together UI representations of common user operations into a sequence chain -- kind of like piping UNIX command output together, except the UI lets the person actually specify parameters. (And they can be saved for future use every bit as much as creatng a shell script.)

    1. Re:"dd" vs. the button by gweihir · · Score: 1
      Easy with the generalizations. For what it's worth, "dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/dsX" takes up some amount of mental storage, be it rote memory or full-out understanding. That little piece of knowledge itself is a fairly highly specialized operation. OTOH, a well designed UI with a button that says "click me, and I'll fix your problem" saves the average joe from the necessary year (or so) of learning required to have the contextual foundation to appreciate what "dd" even is, let alone how to use it.

      Well, yes. But don't we spend years on teaching people how to use paper and pen and what the characteristics of paper are? I believe the knowledge on how computer long-term storage works is just as critical for joe sixpack in order to not loose his holliday photos, for example. The "click me, and I'll fix your problem" is convenient, but leads to incompetence and dependency. Just like in the middle ages you would not learn to read and write yourself, but pay somebody to do it for you, like the village scribe. I agree that it takes years, but with the prevalence of computer storage these years should be spent by any educated person.

      Beyond that, Apple has done one better with their Automator tool...

      Yes, that is a different beast. Basically graphical programming.
      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:"dd" vs. the button by slide-rule · · Score: 1
      The [button] is convenient, but leads to incompetence and dependency.

      It may well happen that a basic understanding of a computer's permanent vs. volatile storage choices go down in history alongside reading, writing, and math. I could get on board with that. And, believe me, I truly appreciate 'dd' being present for the power-geeks to get to. The big limitation that a lot of people have is not a lack of access to information (as was more the case in the middle ages where the skills of reading and writing were locked up by the church) but rather a lack of time and/or interest to really gain mastery over the computer. Someone just can't be made to set aside more time and/or foster more interest... especially when they are carting kids around to their various activities, shopping, dealing with the house problem of the week, and other things. I'll never really understand all the magic that makes my car's engine work. I have some rudimentary understanding, and tools don't scare me, and I have the patience and ability to learn... I simply lack a strong enough desire to actually learn. (Cue bumper sticker "I'd rather be coding.") Likewise the people who just really don't need to know that "dd" exists are many. Lets give them a button that talks to "dd", and if we're feeling particularly slick, bring Automator over to the free OSes too.

  13. Is Encryption Any Good? by ajs318 · · Score: 1

    There is only one way to find out whether or not an encryption scheme is any good: READ AND UNDERSTAND THE SOURCE CODE. As a second best, show the source code to a competent programmer whom you trust and who has some expertise in the field in question. If they won't show you the source code, the most likely reason why not is because the encryption is no good and you should walk away.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  14. Mod up by bogie · · Score: 1

    nt
    no text
    no text dam it! ;-)

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
  15. I wouldn't use any "secure" flash drive ever again by argent · · Score: 2, Informative

    We bought a bunch of "secure" drives (unintentionally, I might add, we had no interest in the "security" features), and found that unlike regular flash drives anything that damaged the file system on the drive meant you had a dead device... because you couldn't reformat it without a special program... and getting a copy of that program was basically impossible. Oh, they claimed you could do it by sending a letter from the CEO on corporate letterhead requesting a copy... and jumping through additional hoops after that... but there was never a response from this "initial handshake".

    Now, they're not terribly expensive... but they're no more secure than an encrypted file system in a regular file on the drive. You're paying more money for no better security than you can set up yourself, and dealing with the hidden costs of lost data... both directly, and because the guy in the field can't initialise a trashed file system himself so he doesn't have a device handy to get a copy of the customer's data when he needs it.

    The whole technology seems to be implemented in the wrong place to me.

  16. Dont use U3 by cobravenum2 · · Score: 1

    Dont use U3 its a proprietary peice of software that doesnt allow certain software to be installled on it. i find i clunky and a bear to use.

    --
    godlike
  17. Asking for trouble by Alansunder · · Score: 1

    Anything that needs to install extra software (from the device) is just asking for trouble. Unless you are carrying national secrets with you maybe a password protected ZIP would suffice to stop casual snooping. That's all a device like this can do, it's never going to stand up against determined attempts to access the data.

  18. Nothing magical about U3 by perlcoder · · Score: 1

    There is nothing magical about U3. For my encryption, I use Portable Vault. It retails for less than $20 dollars and works with every flash USB drive that I have. I use this to encrypt my pictures and password information for all of my financial accounts. It uses a strong 256 bit Blowfish encryption algorithm, and only you could access the data.

    1. Re:Nothing magical about U3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I too have made use of StompSoft's software except that I have the Digital Vault title which I have used many times on my USB drive to keep any personal data secure. Anyways, as far as the U3 is concerned I have to go with the consensus. Ditch the U3 and stick with the tried and true USB drive.

    2. Re:Nothing magical about U3 by p911 · · Score: 1

      what about the U3 extra data removal software to buy? This feature is not included?