Slashdot Mirror
Update on Xara's OS Vector Graphics Project
An anonymous reader writes "We first heard from Xara when they announced their plan to release
their crown jewels, the Xara
X source code under GPL.
Now, 5 scant months since going Open Source, Xara has released Xara
Xtreme Linux 0.7, a very functional, robust illustration
program. What
this means for the Linux Desktop is significant: a true professional
grade graphics package. And for a glimpse at what Xara can do,
you owe it to yourself to see the new Xara Xtreme Linux
Screenshot gallery
with amazing, unbelievable vector graphic art."
Oh right, it does. Oops.
... and the server seems to be showing a very impressive vector graphic of a blank page. What great rendering!
I haven't used Xara extreme yet, but I have seen artists say that it's better than Adobe Illustrator and Macromedia Freehand (which is what this software competes with) in terms of performance, (some?) features, and ease of use. Sounds like a great new software in Linux' arsenal.
XIX XthiXnk the serXverX has suXccXumbed, XdoeXs anyXbodyX havXe a mirrXoXrXX?
if I could I probably would make a law prohibiting the use of the letter X and words containing it from product names/descriptions unless they've existed for at least 10 years... I mean, cmon, can we be a bit more creative?
-- the cake is a lie
here's working coral cache
t s.html
http://www.xaraxtreme.org.nyud.net:8090/screensho
Just tried the Windoze version for a quickie look at features. No SVG support. As more of the OSS community and others start to create and deliver vector graphics in SVG (check out all the SVGs in Wikimedia Commons or OpenClipart.org), any illustration program without it will gradually lose its user base. It's not that SVG is so wonderful, but it's becoming a necessary tool to have in your arsenal.
Start a happiness pandemic
IIRC the core of Xara Xtreme were put on some binary only libs. Did these libraries were released in a opensource license in new version ?
... is right here and still appears to be building. But at least it's not on fire.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
If you're going to Slashvertise, make sure your server can stand up to Slashdot traffic ;).
But seriously this sounds like a nice program, I'm looking forward to trying it out.
"An anonymous reader" writes: ...crown jewels...5 scant months...a very functional, robust illustration program...a true professional grade graphics package...you owe it to yourself to see the new Xara Xtreme Linux Screenshot gallery...with amazing, unbelievable vector graphic art
Could "An anonymous reader" possibly be Xara?
Check out the source code, this thing is a monolith. I think I'm sticking to Inkscape for now, though I wish the Xara team the best of luck, and it was a nice gesture to release the source code under the GPL.
Good to see ./ has still is "magic touch". It's been a while since we slashdotted.
RTFA, will ya? Xara has been commercially available for Windoze for a while - current version is 2.0f (go check xara.com) So lay off the frothing mouth act a little.
Useless without article... Didn't even make it past 10 comments, site down, mirrordot down, coral cache down, and google cache down...
Wikipedia has more on Xara (of course).
I'm a huge fan of vector drawing, even to the point of using Inkscape to animate stuff. I can't wait to try this out, especially if it has better support for frame generation.
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister
Too bad that the de facto standard as far as vector graphics is concerned isn't - and quite probably will never be - Xara; it's Adobe Illustrator. It's like hailing The Gimp as "all we need as far as bitmap graphics go" (which has been done quite often), while every graphics professional will tell you that it's clearly no match for Photoshop. I've seen InkScape, another fine vector graphics application that's available for Linux, but it's no match for Illustrator either, which really is too bad. Yes, of course, it's eventually all up to Adobe to port Photoshop and/or Illustrator, but until that happens, we simply shouldn't act like a substitute application - no matter how nice - has just filled the big, gaping hole that instead should be filled by an application that is regarded as being the industry standard.
But unfortunately, the server doesn't owe it to me.
*Poof*
Anyone got mirrors?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm probably going to make the server burn a little more by piquing Mac user interest in addition to Linux, but, as gleaned from the google cache of the text (the images are still roiling in flames on a server somewhere), they are using wxWidgets, and they say they're looking for developers and testers for Mac OS too. I guess a port there is not far off. Presumably other platforms are possible too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xara_Xtreme
Windows versions have been around for about 6 years, so there is a chance that someone just MIGHT have tried it already.
Does it have a bitmap tracer and if so how good is it. I do tons of manual vector tracing since all or most suck badly.
Got Code?
I was a Xara (Xtreme) Windows user for one or two years and loved it. Then Inkscape appeared and, at first, it wasn't as good as Xara but right now the difference is minimal and Inkscape supports SVG so my choice was obvious.
Since I'm still a Windows user, the only thing I'd like Inkscape to improve is the GUI which could be a little better. I know it's a GTK "problem" but...
I am doubtless one of the reasons that Xara LX exists at all -- I wrote their product manager a couple years ago to state I intended to switch to Linux, and would really love it if their product could at least run under WINE; at the time they said they had no intentions on working on a Linux version in the future and that "Linux users seem to expect everything for free". That they are upping the ante and actually making a Linux version that is indeed free is puzzling, but I'm not complaining: I've bought every revision of the software since 1.0 back in the 90s and still prefer it to Inkscape, Illustrator, and all the other competitors on the block.
My only beefs, if I could be said to have any:
All told, though, I am grateful to Xara for their decision -- and to all the developers who have contributed to the success of the project. If I could code my way out of a proverbial wet paper bag I would have helped by now, but unfortunately I am one of those individuals who is happy to use Xara's products without having the faintest idea of how to make them (or make them better, in this case).
Inkscape seems to be a pretty capable package already (and it supports svg)
It's very odd how there are two excellent and nearly-professional open source/Linux Adobe Illustrator replacements, but we have yet to see anyone create an open source Adobe Photoshop replacement worthy of mention.
For Fedora folks, XaraLX and XaraLX-examples are in the Extras repository, which is enabled by default. Just:
yum -y install XaraLX and XaraLX-examples
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
I wasn't clear enough in my original post. Yes, I was referring to having heard artists say that the existing Windows version of Xara extreme (X?) was better than illustrator and freehand. I heard this months ago before the open source version was even announced. Being that you are the second post pointing this out, I figured I would clarify it. Thanks.
I thought you were replying to my original post, instead of the flamebait post that was hidden from view. Doh! New Slashdot design! Thanks again.
the fact that they failed commercially and are resorting to an open source model is pretty good indicator that nobody uses it.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
"Name these artists..."
My brother is a graphic art illustrator. He loves it and uses it almost exclusively for a long time now. So what's your beef with Xara anyway? Looks like a good tool to me.
Who said it failed commercially?
Haven't checked Sarge, but it's in Sid, version is 0.7r1692-2. An 8 MB download with the extras and SVG packages. Package: xaralx. I've tested it for five minutes, and I'm rather impressed.
As no one with Debian uses it, or looks in it, but XaraLX is in "non-free" for Etch and Sid. Looks like the maintainer upgraded it to 0.7 in Sid, Etch is 0.6 currently.
I have no experience with Xara or Inkscape, but...
It sounds like if it Xara is -scaling- the vector, then it very well should be scaling the rounding as well. If it is -redimensioning- the vector's width/height/whatever-property, then it's a different matter altogether.
You'll see this in something like CAD applications where changing the dimensions of a rect is a whole different thing from scaling the rect.
the fact that they are resorting to an open source model is pretty good indicator that they failed commercially.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
GIMP. Have you heard of it? Not as good as photoshop, but free and works in Linux.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Just to let slashdot users know, a few mirrors of the screen shots are now up and running.
My apologies for any problems you may have encountered in getting to our site.
Graeme
Xara
Is it? The developers are still actively selling the software, which they've been selling for the past 10 years. None of them are selling their homes or living out of their cars. Their children aren't starving.
Freaking failures.
Now THIS is some amazing photorealistic vector artwork.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Anonymous Coward's brother uses it?
That endorsement is good enough for me!
I'm honoured to make your acquaintance, Tim -- and I agree, Xara certainly does some "vector-banging" that other software probably didn't do at the time, and doesn't do still -- but packages like Inkscape seem nearly equally capable to Xara in many respects, and they are able to handle SVG import/export. Xara also already handles exports to other (more limited) vector formats as well, and has algorithms for handling elements that aren't supported by the exported format.
To be clear: I'm okay with losing some of the information in my file by exporting to SVG or having other limitations imposed on my work (e.g. no fancy drop shadow tools, feathering, etc.) if I have the basic functionality and interoperability -- after all, I don't like Xara just because of the extended features, but because it is fast, I like how it handles colours in a palette (another terrible weakness of other vector packages like Inkscape, that have no palette management, or Illustrator, where colour is ridiculously tedious and overly complex). But that built-in limitation isn't the right approach for everyone, as you point out: Xara focuses on the smooth user experience at the sacrifice of some features, so maybe a couple other posters were right in suggesting that SVG interoperability should be via an external application instead of built into the software.
It should be obvious by now that I'm a Xara lover too, and I use it for nearly everything I can accomplish with vector graphics -- even silly stuff like calculating driving distance between two points on a roadmap, because of Xara's incredibly simple yet powerful arbitrary unit system. I confess to using Visio on occasion for drawing charts/diagrams (because it is easier to draw and alter quickly with its snapping nodes and automatic connector recalculation), but I often end up redrawing the finished graph in Xara to make it look attractive enough to put into my bosses' slideshows.
That said, the reason for my whine about SVG has to do chiefly with the import/export functionality, and I am afraid of hitting a nerve with you, but here's hoping you appreciate the problem without being offended:
I work at an online learning company as a UI architect from a home office -- and the other designers at H.Q. have opted to use other software despite my having earlier chosen to use Xara to design our software (I can't really do much about it as I can't browbeat them from here). They argue it shouldn't matter so long as the formats are interoperable, which I agree with in principle -- but in practice doing so puts me in an untenable position because Xara's vector export functionality (and much of its import) is ... well, not so good. The other major vector illustration packages out there have:
It's also not unthinkable that the same app could even be backported to Windows, although that seems highly unlikely for the moment: Windows is and has been Xara's bread and butter for a long time, so they probably aren't eager to see their paying customers (like me) slip away to free versions the next time around.
That said, I'd gladly pay for a licence to be able to run the software on Linux, and I had told them as much a couple years ago. (Their product manager at the time disagreed and said that Linux users tended to want everything for free because of the philosophy behind the OS, but they have obviously changed their tune since).
I wish them the best of luck for successfully completing their Linux as well as Mac versions: As a long-time user of the software myself, it's in my own interests to see them continue to do well and improve their software (and their supported OSes, as I have been dying to move to Linux for a long time now and Xara has been one of the biggest packages tying me down to Windows) -- and in theirs, if they're to stand up to the 800 lb. gorilla in the room.
I do hope you enjoy playing with Xara; I know how "high" I felt when it dawned on me what great software it was to use in 1997 when I was first introduced to it. I think this company has written some great software; their products command a near-cult status following already (many of their followers dating all the way back to 'Acorn Draw'). Developing a port of their flagship product for Linux is quite definitely not going to hurt their reputation in the latter respect, at least. ;)
Running the 0.7 version under Fedora (build 1560) and it looks good so far but haven't done a great deal with it. It's still missing a lot of the bells and whistles (animation, color management), but basic functionality is there. Xara EPS exports open right up in Ghostscript/Scribus so it's already useful on some level.
Apparently, the crew over at Inkscape http://www.inkscape.org/ are collaborating in some way with the Xara people so it will be interesting to see if/how this changes/improves either app.
* * * * * *
Adobe Illustrator is a software engineer's misconception of how an artist works.
CorelDraw is an artist's misconception of how a software engineer works.
I think I will stick with Blender for the time being. The hair/cloth effects are starting to work really well, the animation and compositing systems have been improved, the armatures are getting more sophisticated, it interacts very well with The Gimp, and you can produce animations directly using Blenders internal renderer, Yafray or Povray (then on to MPEG, all within the package). There are more PhD's working on it this summer again via Googles summer of code, and while the story lines were very thin, the graphics and capabilities demonstrated in last summers films were very impressive. It's good to see another package in the works.
the fact that they are resorting to an open source model is pretty good indicator that they failed commercially.
Chalk that up to the swift move of licensing it to Corel to "market" a Windows version from 1995 to 2000 (as CorelXara). Having Corel come anywhere near your product is the Kiss of Death. Compound that error by trying to sell a high-end product to graphic artists on Windows without first building a loyal following with a Mac version.
* * * * * * *
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
--Groucho Marx
I don't mean to start a "this is better" thread, but does anyone know of a review showing the strengths and weaknesses of Xara vs. Inkscape (besides the latter supporting SVG). In other words, if I'm looking for a vector graphics tool on Linux (used to use Illustrator on Windows before moving to Linux) which should I use?
Impossible is nothing.
I've had a lot of trouble trying to print from Inkscape (in Windows). Xara is miles ahead in that department -- and that's using a version from 2002 or so. Also, Xara is FAST - for simple drawings, it doesn't matter, but the bigger the image gets, the longer Inkscape takes to render. Oh, and the bitmap tracer in Xara (@2002) is awesome.
That's not to say that Inkscape isn't a great program -- it is.
As others already have mentioned Xara has a superb GUI and is easy usable. This is due the fact that Xara tries to be wyoGuide conformant (see http://wyoguide.sf.net/projectlist.php).
O. Wyss
See http://wyoguide.sf.net/papers/Cross-platform.html
I'm quite sure I know. :)
hany
Xara Software used to be the UK's Computer Concepts who produced Impression DTP software and Artworks vector graphics package in the early nineties for the Acorn 32-bit computer range (The Acorn who created the ARM chip and spun off the IP to create the ARM company). Artworks as ported to Win32 and performed 5x faster using its own redraw routines than Corel Draw using Windows' GDI. That port of Artworks was licensed and sold by Corel as Corel Xara. I'm not surprised that they have good rendering code given their 15 years of experience with it.
"Xara vs Inkscape" is a silly notion. I have been a member of the Inkscape project for years now; since before it began. We have recently started collaborating with the Xara guys. Inkscape and Xara have a wonderful relationship. There is no "vs." We are basically attacking the problem from different angles, that's all.
EXCUSE ME?! We're SHY about it??? I'll have you know that I am an artist myself, and I can assure you that we are definitely NOT the way you say you are.
Get the facts, you Anonymous Coward....
Microsoft-free since March 28, 2004
The Mac OS X version is still in development (as the Linux version). In the meantime, perhaps this information is helpful for you: Xara Xtreme on Paralles Desktop for OSX: http://www.talkgraphics.com/showthread.php?t=22691
- Remi
Fedora core 5 only, not FC4 :(
Hey, I've been using XARA for Pc for more than 9 years. I consider to be better than illustrator and freehand, and I do graphics for a living. I don't think in any way as a failure, they have been improving the product on all this years, and some features are still unique in the market. As a designer, it still makes a lot of sense for me. Granted, nobody knows about it, but perhaps with this move they can capture another set of users without advertising it on any freaking magazine. Regards
Uhm... you do realize that Blender is a 3D modelling and rendering program, right? And that Xara is a vector-based drawing program, right?
These are two completely different domains. You use them for different reasons.
Don't get me wrong-- I love Blender. I've been working on using it for special-effects animations, and now I'm attempting to create models for games. Absolutely love it.
But Xara is something else: it's more like Inkscape, or Corel Draw!, or Adobe Illustrator.
Just thought someone should clarify, since you seem to be a bit confused.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
I meant we're not the way you say we are. D-:
Microsoft-free since March 28, 2004