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Learning to Love the Cable Guy

An anonymous reader writes "The New York Times and C|Net are reporting on new good will gestures from big cable companies. As service monopolies increasingly became the norm, quality of service began to decline across the board. Now, though, with a number of alternatives cropping up, cable companies are beginning to realize the need to ensure customers say with the often imposing service companies." From the article: "[As] service has improved slowly as satellite providers, upstart phone carriers and cell phone companies have provided attractive alternatives. And now that cable and phone companies are starting to sell similar bundles of phone, broadband Internet and television products--known in the industry as a triple play--they risk losing subscribers forever if they do not keep them happy."

28 of 291 comments (clear)

  1. How about just letting me buy what I want? by jcr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a pretty spiffy DLP TV, and all I use it for is watching DVDs. I haven't bought any cable or satellite service because nobody will just sell me the channels I want, without insisting on bundling in all the bible-thumpers and home shopping network crap. It feels like getting spammed, and it just pisses me off.

    I'm convinced that IPTV is the future, and that's mainly because the cable vendors SUCK.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by Smidge204 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Perhaps you should write a letter to the local cable TV service and tell them that. After all, if they really are concerned with making customers happy, your request does not sound like that big a burden to their system.

      And frankly, I'd like that option too.

      Since Verizon has been adding cable TV to their FioS service, it is looking like a much better alternative to Cablevision/Optimum Online. Verison's phone and internet is already available on FioS in my area, and as soon as TV is there I'm probably going to switch. Hooray for competition!
      =Smidge=

    2. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by Sporkinum · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I program out the channels I don't watch. Works kinda like adblock.

      --
      "He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
    3. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I know one person whose sole source of television content is iTunes. It's exactly the video-on-demand we've all wanted for years. Pay for only the exact shows you want to see, and get a discount for buying a whole season. When enough content enters the on-demand services cable companies will likely see a massive drop in customers.

    4. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I program out the channels I don't watch. Works kinda like adblock.

      You're still paying for them, though.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    5. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by samkass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I program out the channels I don't watch. Works kinda like adblock.

      You're still paying for them, though.


      Probably not. The cable service probably would cost exactly the same with or without them. In fact, not including them might lose the cable companies some ad revenue and increase costs.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    6. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

      What's a poor, bible-thumping redneck supposed to do?

      Ummm, I'm gonna guess it's something involving some beer, a pickup, and a gun?

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    7. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by JPriest · · Score: 3, Informative
      There have been some conflicting studies on this (search: cable la carte), but the cable companies say the end result is that it would end up costing you more money to select only the things you want. For example, cable companies get paid to carry the home shopping channel and if you drop it you will end up paying more for the other chans. Part of the problem also spawns from the fact that many channels are still analog and it would be pretty much impossible to exclude or include just some of the analog channels.


      The cable companies _could_ make everything digital only over night but they risk bricking millions of TV's that have just analog tuners and no cable card support. I suspect that once analog channels go the way of the Dodo bird, a la cart programming will be a possibility, but at that point the broadcast flag could also become possible.

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    8. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by Elminst · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You do know the cable company is the middleman giving you TV, right?
      The cable co is given a package of channels from the provider; the studios.
      The studio says, if you want this "cool" channel, you have to take these "sucky" channels too.
      If the cable co doesn't give you the sucky channels, the studio yanks their contract, and you don't get any channels.

      So I assume from your post you'd be happy with an a-la-carte cable? Fine. You pay $5 and up for each of the channels you want (a common price point in most arguments). Pick your favorite 11 channels. Congrats. You are now paying MORE than I am with my 200 channels, non a la carte. But you have what YOU want, right?

      --
      No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
    9. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by jeaton · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the case of the shopping channels, most often you're not only not paying for them, the channel creator actually pays the cable company to carry the station. This is why the even the lowest tier offered by the cable company includes all of the shopping channels.

      In addition, often times the content providers write into the cable companies contracts bundling requirements. For example, if a given tier includes ESPN, then it must also include ABC Family (not necessarily true for those exact two channels, but the idea is true). So in those cases, your cable company is contractually forbidden from selling you just one of the channels.

      This comes up all of the time, and the situation hasn't changed.

    10. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by Rix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They've been offering tiered packages for a long time. There's no reason they couldn't offer a la carte analog service.

    11. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by thrillseeker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So I assume from your post you'd be happy with an a-la-carte cable? Fine. You pay $5 and up for each of the channels you want (a common price point in most arguments). Pick your favorite 11 channels. Congrats. You are now paying MORE than I am with my 200 channels, non a la carte. But you have what YOU want, right?

      It's a common and completely arbitrary price point designed to advance a specific agenda, and even if it's accurate, it's an average. The problem is the cable companies have so long enjoyed monopoly status that they have no idea how to behave in a real market. In a real market that $5 price point may become $10 for the ESPN channels and $0.10 for the Pass-The-Loot channels - they may even pay you to watch it. Of course. with proper IPTV the cable companies will become what they deserve to be - providers of bandwidth - and the only people who matter in this arguement - the customers - will get everything better, cheaper and faster. But, first the FCC has to pull their collective head out and begin trying to enforce actual markets, without monopoly status, in all their domain.

    12. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > Pick your favorite 11 channels.

      I don't have 11 favorite channels. I have two. (There were three before TechTV bit the dust.)

      A la carte would be a nice option for people like me.

    13. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I program out the channels I don't watch. Works kinda like adblock.

      You're still paying for them, though.


      I very highly doubt that. I have C-Band satellite (the huge dish type) without a paid subscription except for Comedy Central, SciFi and Cartoon Network.

      Despite not having a subscription to the religious or shopping networks, I can get them, even if all my subscriptions lapes, they still come through. That type of channels are unencrypted, meaning that I don't have to buy a subscription to watch them. I doubt that the cable systems are giving those networks any money.

    14. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by Squalish · · Score: 3, Informative

      Cable card has its flaws - unlike boxen, it's not capable of transmitting info, and the best means of simulcasting digital (often HD) and analog cable involves neighborhood-level switching, so that the regional office is only transmitting the 60 stations or so that your community is watching to the neighborhood master switchbox.

      Cable card capability was here... and the feature (which was a slight price markup) is disappearing from production sets, on the basis that consumers as a whole, really don't care. Congress and the FCC doesn't design and market technologies well.

      Cable Card 2.0 has been spoken of, with additional features.

      --
      People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
    15. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by MerrickStar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Long ago I lived in an area that had a company called WanTV (pronounced with emphasis on want.) I don't know whatever became of this company as I moved away, but it provided, at a reasonable price (often cheaper than other cable companies) non-packaged channels. You selected which channels you wanted and those were the ones you got. It seems to me that if you rated the cost of a channel based on their popularity, you could design a pretty effective business model. In turn, if studios started to shoot you down, it would result in bad publicity for them. Dening the consumer what they want and all.

    16. Re:How about just letting me buy what I want? by jafac · · Score: 4, Funny


      Ummm, I'm gonna guess it's something involving some beer, a pickup, and a gun?

      I was thinking more like a pig, some vaseline, and a pack of Marlboros.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  2. Screw cable by spectral · · Score: 4, Informative

    Perhaps when the local cable company decides to stop having arbitrary, confusing, and most importantly secretive policies about what I'm allowed to do with their service and what I'm not allowed to do, I'll believe this, but they don't want me on their network since I actually use it.

    Case in point: recently they upgraded my service from 10mbit / 2mbit to 15mbit / 2mbit. To do this, they had an unannounced, planned outage for 6 hours starting at midnight on a Friday night. I called and had to talk to someone before I could even verify that my service was interrupted, the person said that it was their policy to not announce these things since security systems might rely on the cable connection, and they wouldn't want potential thiefs to know when to strike. Oh, and even if they DID announce them, no one would listen (if it was on a web page) and they might not have the $(cable_company)'s email account so they couldn't use that either. Great, so now I can't find another way to protect my home (if my security system uses the cable internet / phone service), way to go guys.

    The worse one though: If I use "more than my reasonable amount" of upstream bandwidth, I'll have said bandwidth capped to 20kbyte/s. I've had this happen to me, I called and they said they'd reply to this issue within 24-48 hours. 117 hours later (and three phone calls from me counting the first) they called me back and said that they sell "burst, not stream". They couldn't explain that any better, but said that long connections were against the rules and that games like World of Warcraft (I asked specifically) were ways to get capped. I apparently need to take a break every so often or else I'll have my connection throttled?

    A friend has it happen to him, he actually got numbers out of the person. Outgoing connections (wtf?) can't last more than 20 minutes or else risk being capped, so he set his bittorrenting (probably not at all legal either ;)) to account for this. Every 20 minutes it'd take a 10 minute break. Yep, capped again within two days.

    Screw cable, when they pull crap like this.. Now if only DSL here in America (Fairfield County, Connecticut especially..) didn't suck.

    1. Re:Screw cable by guruevi · · Score: 3, Informative

      I would have your contract with them checked and maybe even run it through a lawyer. I am looking into sattelite myself because I can't get DSL or Cable here and in those contracts it states exactly when I would get capped (after x-amount of Gbytes/hour for x-amount of continuous hours) and to what rate it would get capped to (64kbit/s). I calculated it and it would mean that I can stream constantly (24/7) 256 kb/s down while my line is actually 10M bursting. If I put this in an ever-adapting rate-limiting script I can actually get continuous broadband.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  3. And this just proves it. by darkonc · · Score: 3, Interesting
    This is pretty much proof that having an effective monopoly is bad for customer service. As long as they thought that they had their customer base by the short and curleys they did whatever they wanted -- but now that the possibility of competition is cropping up, they're starting to play nice.

    I think that the same can be extrapolated for Microsoft, don't you?

    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  4. Cable blows by ArchieBunker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ever do a comparison between cable and satellite? The quality is like night and day. Comcast and Adelphia both have lots of pixelation and the first 80 channels are still analog feeds. They are grainy as hell and one with Adelphia had permanent ghosting from the local UHF channel. Flipping through channels on cable takes longer for the picture to fill in compared to satellite. My parents had a cable modem and it was fine for a few years and then they had tons of disconnects and signal problems. The final straw was the bill increasing $10 in one month. I got them DSL and called to cancel the cable modem. I told them going up $10 was my reason for cancelling. The guy told me it was because we were now on the "silver" plan. I told him it was the same thing as before but under a new name and just cost $10 more. Then he tried telling me their cost for ESPN went up 500%. Well make an ESPN package then, when was the last time you watched a major sporting event on ESPN? Never. Ooops sorry for the rant :)

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  5. Re:Too little, too late. by BakaHoushi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I think you could tone down the "ignorant masses" routine, I agree with your overall point. As a kid, I did watch a lot of TV, I admit. But to be fair, I do remember growing up to watch cartoons like Muppet Babies, Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain, The Simpsons before it became Guest Cartoon Celebrity of the Week, etc.

    But as I grew up, I just started to watch less and less. I'd occasionally find a show that was worth watching, but it was a rarity.

    Now, well, I still watch some, but not really much. Mainly just Cartoon Network for certain anime shows, or something like The Venture Brothers. I'll often keep Comedy Central on just to listen to the Daily Show and Colbert Report as I do something else.

    I don't know whether I've grown up (slightly) or if TV has just dumbed down (or both, or we've just become more aware of just how dumb it is), but it's hard to actually devote the effort to actually watch a show when you have better things to do with your spare time. Hell, even if it's just browsing forums for links to news articles or searching Wikipedia, I actually feel LESS insulted on the Internet than I do watching TV.

    It's a rather round about way of me saying, basically, that Cable companies need to wake up and learn that they can't just overcharge people for the same crap year after year. It gets old, and some people, albeit maybe not the majority and not all at once, will find alternatives. "What do you mean if I just want 5 channels, I need to order another 45? No way." This is especially true since now even if you don't get a station for that one show you like, you can most likely just find it on YouTube or DVD.

    So I just offer them this message: Stop overcharging and forcing people to buy things they don't want, or people will find alternatives, or even, gasp, go without!

  6. Re:Too little, too late. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was with you up to the last paragraph. There's no need to come across as an elitist dick.

    I know plenty of very smart people (scientists, high-level civil servants etc.) who enjoy TV, even though I personally find very little of it worth watching. Brainless entertainment aids relaxation, provides conversation, or just plain alleviates loneliness - are you saying my grandmother (novelist, historian, honorary doctorate) has an IQ of 79? She can certainly write rings around you.

  7. Re:Cox cable by Osty · · Score: 3, Interesting

    During the winter, it was so bad and so regular, I could predict the signal dropoff time to within 1/2 hour, based on the outside temp.

    Soudns almost exactly like a problem I had with Comcast when I first moved into my house. The previous owners used a dish for TV, and since the house is just out of DSL range I have to assume they used dialup for an internet connection. That's relevant because when I moved in I switched everything over to cable (cable TV, cable internet, screw the phone line). During the day, the cable connection was rock solid. Which was useless to me, since I work during the day. During the night, the cable internet connection (but not TV!) would go out as it cooled down. After 8 tech visits, three cable modems, and four months a tech finally thought to check the line at the street. Turns out there was some water damage (rust!) that caused an intermittent connection. During the warm day it would expand just enough to make a connection, but at night as it cooled down the connection would go away. Apparently it still made enough of a connection for TV to get through, but not for internet. A minute later, he had repaired the connection and left, and I haven't had problems since. This was during the spring, so I can just imagine how bad it would've gotten if they hadn't found the problem by winter.

    Temperature-related issues like this can be very hard to diagnose, specifically because the techs will never come out at night. If the issue is caused by cooling temperatures at night and the techs come at 10 in the morning, of course the problem's not going to reproduce. I just had to keep getting them to send out techs until I got one that actually knew a thing or two.

    In your case, the damage may have been farther up the line, especially if the entire neighborhood had the same problem. In that case, the only thing you can do is to get your neighbors to call in and complain as well. It's like a power outage. If only one person calls in, they're not going to do anything. If three people call in, they might be able to triangulate the position of the problem and think about fixing it. If hundreds of people call in, they know they have a problem and a tech will be immediately dispatched. So, when you have problems like this, call! And get your neighbors to call! If you don't, the service company isn't going to give a crap because you're not making any noise.

  8. Service Providers by selex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I had Verizon for years, but I pretty much had to have them. There are 2 local cable companies in my area, but neither had 2-way cable going to my house. So it was get the phone and the cable service, or just get DSL from Verizon who already supplied my phoneline. Now there are numerous other ISP with DSL, but you need to get a Verizon line, because they are all subcontracted for the fibers. So I told everyone to just forget the alternative and just go with Verizon. You only had to call Verizon, not the Cable company and then Verizon. It ended up being cheaper anyhow. Then the cable companies got moving (and so did I), and now I have 2-way cable and no phone. Its more then Verizon DSL, but now Verizon doesn't offer DSL in my area. I don't have the outages I used to have with DSL, and the cable company is there that day to fix the line if there is a problem. The cable company is one of the oldest anywhere, but its small and has good customer service.

    So what has been bothering me about this whole thing? I want the service, and I don't care what the infrastructure looks like. I want to connect to the internet really fast. So I don't care if its DSL or Cable. I always thought there was a better way to deal with the infrastructure, but all I could ever come up with was government run telecommunication lines, kind of like the national roadways. A system not owned by a company, and one which any service provider could use. The problem being this smacks of communism/socialism, and even beyond the political ideals we all know what the roadways look like. I don't know what a pothole looks like on the internet, but its probably got Paris Hilton in it. The government, without another competitor, will probably take forever to fix the problems, and never completely fix it right which returns me to the previous problem.

    So what are we left with? I guess I'll stick with my 2-way cable until something better comes along, because at least its better then dial-up. One day everything will be wireless and million little bits will be whizzing by my head, and give me a tumor.

    Selex

  9. Not just that... by DragonPup · · Score: 4, Informative

    Cable companies must carry local stations. If the specific shopping network is over the air, the cable provider(in the US at least) must carry it.

    --
    "Useless organic meatbag" -HK-47
  10. The upshot of this is that ... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    monopolies don't care about customers and charge whatever the hell they want, and companies that have to compete at some level will exhibit concern about what their customers want. The only variation on this theme would be a heavily-regulated monopoly (ala the old Bell System) that has enforced service standards. This is hardly news.

    Too bad that the FCC doesn't understand something so basic to any economy. Somebody in law enforcement really should take a look at the Commissioners' bank records for the past few years.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  11. Main Problem: I can't build a cost-effective PVR by edashofy · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've recently investigated the possibility of building my own MythTV (or similar)-based PVR machine. My requirements are pretty simple:

    1. Onscreen guide with no ads showing only the channels I actually receive
    2. Ability to record as much video as the hard drives in the box will hold
    3. Multiple tuners so I can watch and record a couple different channels simultaneously.

    I would also optionally like the ability to record HDTV content in the anticipation that someday I will have an HDTV.

    I do not want to do a single illegal thing with my DVR. I want to do timeshifting of programs. That's all. I promise I will not even copy them to my computer or share them with friends. This is a purely selfish project.

    I can get a dual-tuner DVR from my cable company for $SMALLNUM per month, but they've recently put ads on my non-DVR box's guide, won't show me just the channels I get (instead of channels I don't get, which are an ad for those channels), have limited storage capabilities, and a maximum of two tuners.

    Unfortunately, it's 100% impossible to build such a box - at least, not cost effectively. In my area, they've basically cut analog cable service down to channels 2-13, plus eight bible stations, five home shopping stations, and ten foreign language stations. So, if you want to watch, say, Mythbusters, you MUST subscribe to digital cable. You have no choice.

    I could get a decoder card that can decode a digital cable signal, which may or may not work, depending on whether my cable company has decided to encrypt the signal. If I'm extraordinarily lucky, I will be able to decode basic cable, but I will not be able to ever decode a premium channel like HBO. Even if I'm lucky, my cable company could (without notice) decide to encrypt the channels at any moment.

    But but but, you say, CableCARD is coming, and that will let you get three CableCARDs for your three tuner boards and then build your ultimate DVR! Ah, if this were true. Sadly, it looks like you won't be able to install CableCARDs in anything the Cable company doesn't sell or authorize. Oops.

    The only reasonable option is to rent one cable box per tuner. For a three tuner system, I'd need three digital cable boxes. Even if I were willing to pay the exorbitant monthly fee, then I will only be able to record HDTV from a small number of channels and not premium channels. And then only if I get the cable box that already has a DVR built in, because that's the one with the firewire port on it.

    As much as it sucks, the DVR from the cable company gives me a two-tuner DVR that can tape all my premium channels, even HDTV programs, directly off the digital signal (i.e., I don't even believe it's turned into analog as it would be in a MythTV setup) with a single box. This is just plainly unacceptable.

    If anyone has a good alternative for me or will point out something I'm missing, PLEASE let me know.