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Cheap Bulk Eraser for Hard Disks?

cute-boy asks: "Recently I had to replace some hard disk drives from the same batch which had failed, while still under warranty. Because the drives were no longer recognized by the SCSI controller, it was not possible to erase the data on them. In view of the sensitivity of the data contained upon them, and the chance this was still forensically recoverable, our company decided to buy new drives rather than risk the disclosure of their contents by returning then to the supplier. How would you non-destructively (physically) destroy data on a hard disk without access to a bulk eraser? Obviously in this case it's a bit late to be thinking of using encryption."

166 comments

  1. Why no physical? by daeg · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why are you against physical destruction? Let your IT department have a field trip to an abadoned parking lot with some sledge hammers.

    1. Re:Why no physical? by linkedlinked · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think the idea was that the poster would like to preserve the drives, and thus still qualify for possible returns (warranty or otherwise). The options are "Physically destroy (or retain ownership of)" and "secure wipe, return for $$$." Clearly, one is a more attractive solution, especially if the volume of disks in question is particularly large.

    2. Re:Why no physical? by bhmit1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      A bulk eraser, aka degausser, will destroy not only the data, but also the factory written tracks. The end result is that the drive can never be used again. This may invalidate the warranty if the manufacturer doesn't offer the "send back the face plate" option. Not to mention, most of these degaussers cost 10 times that of a replacement drive according to a quick google search. Considering your line of work, make sure you pick drives from manufacturers that allow replacements without sending back the data.

    3. Re:Why no physical? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      That's a great idea. I never knew that there existed manufacturers that didn't require you to send back the entire unit in order to obtain a refund. How do they protect against people taking off the faceplates, and replacing them with another sheet of metal, and sending back the original faceplate to basically get a free drive? I guess you'd have to do it in a clean room to stop dust from getting on the disk, but if you already had a cleanroom at your disposal, then what's to stop you.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    4. Re:Why no physical? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      The faceplates are milled, cast, or stamped aluminum. It's not a flat piece of metal, it's custom made for the drive. By the time you buy a block of aluminum and cast or mill it to the right shape, you could have bought a new drive.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    5. Re:Why no physical? by alienw · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've never seen cast aluminum used for the cover. Usually, it's a relatively flat piece of stamped metal. It has filters and stuff built in, so you can't just replace it, but it's just a cheap piece of stamped aluminum. Anyway, the reason the manufacturer won't accept faceplates for warranty claims is due to several reasons:
      - they can't verify the drive has actually failed
      - they can't verify the drive wasn't physically damaged
      - they can't refurbish the defective drive
      Most drives you send in are actually rebuilt or reformatted. The warranty replacement drive you receive is someone else's failed drive. Because most manufacturers don't perform proper verification, it's not uncommon to get a defective or about-to-fail replacement. I would never use a warranty replacement drive for even a semi-important application, and certainly not in a server.

    6. Re:Why no physical? by iq+in+binary · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Having seen faceplates and knowing what basic function they have to serve, and being a machinist......

      You could knock another faceplate out tha would serve the same purpose for less than $5 in material and maybe an hour of your own personal time. Assuming you had the machines and tooling.

      Actually a lucrative thing to do, if you have the resources :-P

      --
      Of all the Universal Constants, here's one I know: Nice guys finish last ;)
    7. Re:Why no physical? by D'Eyncourt · · Score: 1

      The problem with bulk erasers (at least those using handheld rare-earth magnets as opposed to electromagnets) is that THEY DO NOT WORK. At my workplace we had a couple of these for the express purpose of erasing hard drives, and following the instructions we waved them on the outside of the case and found they did nothing. We even opened the case of one hard drive and placed the magnet directly on the platter, leaving it there overnight. The PC with that hard drive rebooted without any problems.

      Now we use a DOS program which overwrites the data several times to make it at least somewhat difficult to read data from them, then send the hard drives out to be destroyed.

    8. Re:Why no physical? by edmudama · · Score: 1

      This is true... the drive could be reconditioned in the factory, but most end users won't have the equipment to do so.

      I know drive companies have, in some cases, accepted photographs of the drive top stickers and serial numbers for warranty returns. The company signs a contract promising that these drives really are bad, and in exchange the drive vendor sends them a replacement. This works around the rules of many sensitive installations where no non-volatile storage can leave the premises without being completely destroyed.

      Obviously the drive company knows the field failure rate of their products, so while you could game this for a few tens of drives, trying to get a few hundred for free wouldn't work unless you're already buying about half-a-million units. At those volumes, it's too much work for too little reward.

      --
      More data, damnit!
    9. Re:Why no physical? by queenb**ch · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Your choices are:

      1) $2000 degausser
      2) $50 for a really nice sledge hammer from home depot (shock absorbing handle)

      Since they were willing to spring for replacment drives rather than risk data disclosure, I'd opt for the sledge hammer. You can buy a lot of hard drives for $1950.00.

      Consider it therapy for the geeks...

      2 cents,

      QueenB

      --
      HDGary secures my bank :/
    10. Re:Why no physical? by tsa · · Score: 1

      I think with the prices of hard drives these days the amount of time you invest in wiping the data off the hard drive costs more than the drive itself. I wouldn't bother myself asking /. and wiping every drive, but use the sledge hammer.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    11. Re:Why no physical? by Wwolmack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Breaking hard drive platters is not easy, and given a significant level of paranoia, physically snapping the platters in half may not be enough.
      Degaussing the drives may not be thorough enough, given various anecdotes about the ability to recover data off almost any drive using fancy super-expensive equipment.

      Unless you've got IBM Deathstar 75GXP's (and if you do, well your data is already as good as gone), your platters are probably metal. Even if you have Deathstars, their platters are glass and are susceptible to the method below:

      Metal melts. Magnetic metals lose their net magnetism below the melting point. So find somebody with a kiln, and turn the platters into inert blobs.

      You are stuck with these drives. You can't return them for replacement, and if you keep them and still get a replacement, the data is still on the platters. You could just send them to a data-destruction company, but where's the fun in that?

    12. Re:Why no physical? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A degausser would work great, except that it won't. I worked at a university surplus store that has to get rid of drives. Physical destruction is the only thing that works. I thought this was bull and a degausser would work, but we tried one out on a drive (for 10 minutes), plugged it back into a PC.. and it spun right up, and booted up no problem. Then, tried moving it around in different ways, in case you had to really move the field around or something (*on* the same drive) and I think at worst it accumulated a few data errors.

    13. Re:Why no physical? by NP · · Score: 1

      http://driveslag.eecue.com/ - It would be a fun field day - it can be adapted to fulfill your need as a bulk eraser!

    14. Re:Why no physical? by WebCrapper · · Score: 1

      Yea, the government uses a drill press with their standard hard drives (ie: no secret stuff on them). I believe they drill 5 holes in the drive them chuck it.

    15. Re:Why no physical? by GMC-jimmy · · Score: 1

      The cost comparison doesn't seem right here. It's not cost of erasure tool to cost of replacment drive unit.. it's cost of erasure tool to data integrity damage.

      If the data in question got out and it will cost more than $2000 in damages, then buy the degausser as a one-time-cost preventive measure and use it.

      --
      __________________________________
      Free your mind - Flush your toilet
    16. Re:Why no physical? by hey! · · Score: 2, Funny

      At my workplace we had a couple of these for the express purpose of erasing hard drives, and following the instructions we waved them on the outside of the case and found they did nothing. We even opened the case of one hard drive and placed the magnet directly on the platter, leaving it there overnight. The PC with that hard drive rebooted without any problems.

      Obviously you failed to placate the God of Technological Peversity.

      As a result, yoru computer has become a revenant. Expect it to show up in your bedroom some night playing Paris Hilton MP3s over the computer speaker.

      Next time, sprinkle fresh chicken blood on the platters and let it sit for a day. I gurantee the computer won't boot.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    17. Re:Why no physical? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      My point was it wouldn't be cheap to buy a metal stamping press, and pay a die maker to make dies for each manufacturers covers. The only cost effective way to do it in small quantities would be to mill it out.

      You are correct though, stamped faceplaces are far more common than the other choices at this point in time.

      And yes, some manufacturers do take back just the faceplaces. That's the entire reason we are having this discussion. :P

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    18. Re:Why no physical? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      An hour of a machinists time is worth almost as much as the entire hard disk, if you had to pay a machinist. Doing it yourself... well like they say about linux... only if your time is free. :)

      The hard disk manufacturer would probably get suspicious if you returned hundreds of disk covers for disks that weren't very old and weren't seeing the same failure rate elsewhere in the field though.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    19. Re:Why no physical? by evilviper · · Score: 1
      You could knock another faceplate out tha would serve the same purpose for less than $5 in material and maybe an hour of your own personal time.

      First, you can certainly make a replacement, but the problem is getting the original off, and the new one on, without ANYTHING getting in there. Do you have a vacuum chamber lying around?

      Besides that, the hour of your time probably isn't worth the cost of most types of refurbished hard drives. The manufacturers consider them worth about $40.

      Maybe you could make a profit on high-end SCSI drives, or something like that, but it's not going to be a large one. What's more, the manufacturer is likely to look into cases of a large number of defective drives going to one company, or one area, and consequently sending you to jail for a long time.

      I can think of much more profitable and legal ways to earn money.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    20. Re:Why no physical? by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

      I never knew that there existed manufacturers that didn't require you to send back the entire unit in order to obtain a refund.

      Actually, I don't send back anything except a sheet of paper that says the old drive died and I have destroyed it. It helps that I work for an organization that buys 30-40K drives a year; we can negotiate deals like that. As for the possibility of using this situation for personal enrichment, no computer tech in this place is going to risk losing their job and jail time just to pick up a few lousy hundreds of dollars in free computer hardware.

    21. Re:Why no physical? by markhb · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dude, you work for an organization that can cure acute constipation remotely, just by sending a letter. I would be very surprised if there were a deal you couldn't work out.

      --
      Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
    22. Re:Why no physical? by alienw · · Score: 1

      Well, the cheapest and easiest way would be to find some old drives and use the faceplates from those. The manufacturers often use the same mechanical design for 5-10 years.

    23. Re:Why no physical? by Tweekster · · Score: 1

      For some reason the return for money idea just has "Disaster, written all over it"

      --
      The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
    24. Re:Why no physical? by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Ah, didn't think of that. :P

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    25. Re:Why no physical? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      would be good to rent one
      or

      take it to a place in a major city than can "erase while u wait"

      free business idea for ya. actually rent the machines out via channel partners and charge a per use fee hell stick em in a kiosk and put them in Walmart

    26. Re:Why no physical? by AnotherBrian · · Score: 1

      My point was it wouldn't be cheap to buy a metal stamping press, and pay a die maker to make dies for each manufacturers covers.
      That costs an order of magnitude more than a pallet of drives.

    27. Re:Why no physical? by Adam+Schumacher · · Score: 1

      Based on personal experience, heating a hard drive platter with a blowtorch for 30 seconds and then plunging it into ice water is a _very_ easy (and explosively effective) method of breaking a hard drive platter...

  2. Physically destroy the platters by GarrettZilla · · Score: 2, Informative

    Open the hard drive (get some Torx T-7 through T-9 bits first, you'll probably need them), pull the platters, and sand them.

    --
    Ecce potestas casei!
    1. Re:Physically destroy the platters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just take a torch and burn them. The platters are made of aluminum and burn/melt very easily.

    2. Re:Physically destroy the platters by ryanhos · · Score: 4, Funny

      Won't that just round the corners off the windows and smooth out the text so it doesn't look so BuMpY?

      --
      "I threw up my hands in disgust and wondered if it had been such a good idea to have eaten my hands in the first place."
    3. Re:Physically destroy the platters by mrbcs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And while yer at it, pull out thoses monster magnets inside! They're lots of fun! Especially the ones from those old quantum bigfoots. It's damn near impossible pulling them off a piece of steel. Great for magnetizing screw drivers.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    4. Re:Physically destroy the platters by Video+Gamer+Z · · Score: 1

      Heh, I've got a couple of Bigfoots kicking around here, never really use them though. I think I'm going to go find them...

  3. Physical destruction is your only choice... by rthille · · Score: 0

    The poster seems to indicate that the drive has failed and it's impossible to write to it via the normal scsi interface. At that point, the only way to render the data unrecoverable is the physically destroy the platters.

    I like taking the drives apart for the magnets, then using heat on the platters...

    --
    Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
  4. If you've got your heart set against the physical by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...and they can be quite fun... I guess your only option is to open up the new drives, swap the platters, and erase the data that way. Then swap the platters again if you wish so that they're (technically) new again.

    Never tried it myself, though everyone on the intrawebs largely agrees that there are legions of the mighty dust army waiting breathlessly for you to crack open the drive so that they can invade it. There is apparently no invention of man capable of withstanding their attack, meaning a high possibility that if you perform this operation and then plug the drive back in, a single dust atom will be all that is needed to whir around frantically in the formerly pristine environment, loosing the veritable fires of Hades on your poor machine until it erupts in a wild, flaming mess, sending shards of platter in all directions to seek the soft flesh of babes and women.

    So yeah, they don't recommend doing that.

  5. Or maybe try somebody like these folks by GarrettZilla · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    Ecce potestas casei!
    1. Re:Or maybe try somebody like these folks by yolto · · Score: 1

      These guys are a bit extreme. In addition to shredding your drive into tiny little peices, they will also degauss the drive beforehand for an additional fee. I don't think even the most secret levels of DOD classification need this kind of destruction of data. Does anyone think that someone is going to attempt to reassemble the tiny shredded bits of their hard drive platters in order to reconstruct the data on them? I can maybe see someone doing that with shredded paper if they were really desperate to get to your info, but with a hard drive? It's just not feasible.

    2. Re:Or maybe try somebody like these folks by ID10T5 · · Score: 1
      I don't consider that extreme at all.

      Given the normal difference in data density between magnetic storage media and paper documents, even a small fragment of a hard drive contains more information than would be on a full sheet of paper. If the spooks use burn bags to destroy paper documents, I wonder what their standards are for disposal of magnetic media?

    3. Re:Or maybe try somebody like these folks by mce · · Score: 1

      It's not only that. How does a customer in the end know that the degaussing actually took place?

      If a disk that is supposed to have been shredded surfaces intact you can sue them. One such incident will basically kill their business, so a company that offers such a service has very very very good reasons to stick to the deal. But who will ever find out of a disk that was supposed to be degaussed before being shredded hasn't been?

    4. Re:Or maybe try somebody like these folks by Meph_the_Balrog · · Score: 1

      if they are anything like the organisation I'm contracted to work for, they'll demand sign off oversight on each phase of the sanitization proceedure

    5. Re:Or maybe try somebody like these folks by AnotherBrian · · Score: 1

      Yes that's exactly what I'm going to do with my sensitive data. I'll give the working drives to someone who promises destroy them for me. Plus I get to pay for it. :rollseyes:

  6. Re:dd by MankyD · · Score: 1
    To quote the summary:

    Because the drives were no longer recognized by the SCSI controller, it was not possible to erase the data on them.
    --
    -dave
    http://millionnumbers.com/ - own the number of your dreams
  7. Special return options... by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 5, Informative
    Well, most all hardware manufacturers will offer you replacements even without sending back the complete drive. You need to contact them by phone and setup the special RMA. For instance, we can't send back any of our disks if they fail due to the data. We can only send back non-electrical and non-memory containing parts. A lot of times we simply send back the cover plate to the disks. I know for a fact that Seagate and Western Digital will take back disks like this if you explain the situation.

    Also depending on who your vendors are, you can usually upgrade your service so that you do not need to send back failed disks. Dell for instance has this as part of one of there higher level support contracts.

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    1. Re:Special return options... by MustardMan · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You know what amazes me... there are several people now who've pointed out the fact that you can send the cover plates back. That's not what amazes me. What amazes me is the fact that this relatively simple-to-obtain bit of information somehow eluded the submittor. I wonder why he didnt think to CALL THE FUCKING MANUFACTURER and explain the situation to them.

    2. Re:Special return options... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is, it makes for some interesting discussion on Slashdot. Seriously -- if you somehow feel that the post is wasting your time, why are you reading the replies?

      Trust me. Discussion about bulk-erasing hard disks is good around here. You need to drink some herbal tea or something.

  8. Top cover? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've heard that most HD manufacturers understand this common problem, and will allow you to remove and return only the top cover (with the complete model/serial number sticker still entact) of each failed drive as proof that it was destroyed. You should ask about this when requesting an RMA number for your batch of dead drives.

  9. MOD DOWN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The post clearly states that the drives aren't recognised by the SCSI controller. No mater what OS you use, you won't be able to write on drives if you can't see them.

    Either the parent is incapable of reading or is exibiting flaming fan-boyism. In any case, please mod down!

    1. Re:MOD DOWN by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      the same reason a M1A1 general sherman tank can drive down some roads your car would just wimper at trying
      |||| begin bulk eraser mag field
      .

      .

      controllers head is this line

      .

      .
      end bulk erasers mag field |||

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  10. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your drive does not work in such a way that you cannot control the head. Therefore, as you well know, you cannot erase it. What the fuck do you want Slashdot to tell you -- that fairy tales are true?

    Oh, and your title is very misleading.

  11. I've heard somewhere by vadim_t · · Score: 2, Informative

    That some companies have a deal with the hard disk manufacturer that they'll ship only the drive's cover when it fails, and destroy the rest. Not 100% sure if this is possible, but if your reason for wanting to wipe the drives is getting a warranty replacement, you might want to consider that.

    Otherwise, use thermite, and lots of it. It's cheap and fun.

  12. Bulk erasure by woolie · · Score: 1

    It is hard for me to believe that no one posting has yet understood the question. The issue is that the querent has failed piece of hardware, under warranty, but doesn't want to return it for replacement fear that the data could be recovered by a highly motivated party.

    The answer seems clear. Even if you hard a piece of equipment to erase a drive's contents, you would not be able to verify that the erasure has occurred without the drive functioning in the first place. Therefore, there is unlikely to be a satisfactory solution.

    Perhaps you would be better served by writing data to the drives in an encrypted form. Thus, after a future failure, under warranty or not, you could be confident that data recovery would be unlikely.

    1. Re:Bulk erasure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Since, as you mention, the poster can't write any data to the disk, it's a bit fruitless to suggest writing encrypted data to it. Perhaps you are offering wisdom for the future -- but, after having chastised others for not understanding the question, I'm sure you read carefully enough to catch this bit:
      Obviously in this case it's a bit late to be thinking of using encryption.
    2. Re:Bulk erasure by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

      I find it hard to believe that your company has such information that you'd think that people would go out of their way to recover the drives in order to damage it or steal information. I think the corporate ego there is probably running rampant.

    3. Re:Bulk erasure by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but then again, if it's something like medical records they potentially liable for big fines and jailtime. Assuming it's a private company. The above disclosure laws don't apply to governmental agencies.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  13. Magnet! by diamondmagic · · Score: 1

    Magnets! They might bend the heads and scratch the surface, making if that is what you cann 'non-destructive', but it always works. And no refrigerator magnets, obviously.

    1. Re:Magnet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      microwave magnets!!

    2. Re:Magnet! by Nutria · · Score: 3, Informative
      Magnets! They might bend the heads and scratch the surface, making if that is what you cann 'non-destructive', but it always works.

      The military doesn't think so.

      There's
      • Software wiping (MilStd 5220.22-M)
      • Degaussing (MilStd 5200 28-M)
      • Destroying the platters. "destroyed by melting, incineration, crushing, or shredding."
      This is more difficult than you think.

      http://cc.uoregon.edu/cnews/summer2005/purge.htm
      For example, see the March 2004 Network World article "Inside the DoD's crime lab," which recounts how the Department of Defense computer forensics lab has been able to successfully recover hard drives that have been "thrown off of balconies and even shot with AK-47s, as in one recent battlefield case."
      So, hitting with a sledghammer doesn't seem very effctive.

      A power drill and wire cup brush (http://shop.com.edgesuite.net/ccimg.shop.com/2300 00/230300/230375/products/lg_33486043.jpg) would definitely work, as would various acids (which have hazards of their own).
      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    3. Re:Magnet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know why the hell people go at old drive platters with grinding wheels, acid, thermite (ok, that one is worth doing for entertainment), etc.

      If the drive still spins up, just pop open the top, toss in a few dozed grains of sand or more, close the case, and plug it into a spare old machine. Go do something worthwhile and come back and throw away the drive in an hour. The platters surface will be destroyed, and they will be be scrubbed clean of all data. Much less worth than the grinding wheel, melting, etc, etc.

    4. Re:Magnet! by couch_potato · · Score: 1
      The military doesn't think so.

      There's
      ...
      Degaussing (MilStd 5200 28-M)


      I thought degaussing was accomplished via exposure to an oscillating magnetic field.

      Cool links.
    5. Re:Magnet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah but only if you use these kinds of magnets.

      Oh yeah and its a little hard to get the hard drive unstuck from the magnet afterwards :)

    6. Re:Magnet! by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Most modern platters seem to be coated with some protective material (plastic?). I tried to destroy a range of platters from inside some broken hard disks of unknown origin at work. They where placed in a fume cupboard, and some concentrated HCl pored on them and left for 24 hours. Some older ones (MFM era drives) where well gone, but the newer ones (think 80MB IDE) where still intact!

      Now for sensitive data, I remove the platters from the drives, collect them up and once a year on the 5th of November I put them on the bonfire. I have never seen any evidence of them after that. Less sensitive drives get a full 34 pass overwritting, and go for proper WEEE disposal.

      I have noticed in addition to all this that Dell now offer a "keep your hard drive" option if one fails. Odd thing is it costs the same no matter how many drives you put in the server...

    7. Re:Magnet! by Nutria · · Score: 1
      They where placed in a fume cupboard, and some concentrated HCl pored on them and left for 24 hours. Some older ones (MFM era drives) where well gone, but the newer ones (think 80MB IDE) where still intact!

      Very interesting. Probably glass/ceramic platters.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    8. Re:Magnet! by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that if you get a feromagnetic piece of metal above it's critical temperature, it's not freomagnetic anymore and everything is gone. I never understand why this isn't the most popular method of getting rid of these things, a nice big kiln set to some high temp cone out to do it. The bonfire method suggested elsewhere in this thread is safe because of this too. So long as you don't breathe near the fire.

  14. Logic boards by spacecadet_tommy · · Score: 1

    Had a similar problem where 1 of 2 hard drives (same model) failed. I switched the logic board out of the good one, used it to replace the dead one, reformatted/overwrote to my heart's content, then switched the logic board back to my good drive.

  15. Disposal: The Cheap way by TexNex · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Make friends with someone who has access to a tire shredder. The shredder will make quick work of the drive and you can then burn the remains for added security or pass them directly to a local recycler (most cities frown upon throwing computer materials in the trash as they usually contain heavy metals). Another option would involve fun with thermite but, that may involve a bit more risk than you are willing to take.

    1. Re:Disposal: The Cheap way by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

      to make sure of absolute security you should divide up the left over shreddings and pass them on to multiple recyclers.

  16. My preferred method... by gerbalblaste · · Score: 1

    As emphasized in other comments the only way to truly erase a hard drive is to destroy it.

    My favorite method involves and magnetic induction burner or hotplate. The benefit of this is it will destroy the data but leave no external trace.

  17. Bulk eraser won't help anyhow... by isaac · · Score: 0

    IIRC, the magnetic coercivity of modern hard disk media is sufficiently high that the only sure method of data destruction is physical destruction of the platters.

    Sledgehammer in the parking lot on the platters (removed from the drive, if possible) should do nicely for any application short of national security secrets - just be sure to wear safety goggles.

    -Isaac

    --
    I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
    1. Re:Bulk eraser won't help anyhow... by technotot · · Score: 1

      agreed. unless you have access to the NSA building or an electromagnet, id say (unfortinately)[sic] isaac is right. try to have some fun with it. go hang up some signs and offer 5 bucks to the first person to get it open, and the guy who shatters the platters. -Justin

  18. Read the fucking summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I just modded down 4 people in this article, which out of the couple years I've been getting mod points probably doubles the number of posts I've modded down.

    THE POSTER ISN'T ASKING FOR METHODS TO DESTROY THE PHYSICAL DISK -- in fact, he specifically says that he does NOT want such methods. What he wants is ways to destroy the DATA without destroying the DISK so that he can return it to the vendor for warranty replacement.

    Thus everyone saying "destroy it with thermite", "find someone with a tire shredder", etc. IS OFF TOPIC. (Despite me modding them redundant, off topic would be better.)

    1. Re:Read the fucking summary by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      i would say at this point asking a forensic grade recovery place to crack the drives is the only way to shred the data or find a high end hacker to do this
      either way its big bucks
      (the drill is you pop the drives in a room/box that would make an OR look worse than a gas station toilet then you mount the platters in a new drive do the wipe and rinse/ repeat)

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    2. Re:Read the fucking summary by Nutria · · Score: 1
      i would say at this point asking a forensic grade recovery place to crack the drives is the only way to shred the data or find a high end hacker to do this

      Since the idea is to destroy the data, why does it have to happen in a clean room? Why not in the utlity room?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    3. Re:Read the fucking summary by CrazyJim1 · · Score: 1

      I just modded down 4 people in this article

      And because you posted in this article, all your moderation is erased like their harddrives will.

    4. Re:Read the fucking summary by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      Most regular Slashdot readers know that the askers in Ask Slashdot articles rarely ask the correct question.

    5. Re:Read the fucking summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they are giving the only correct answers.

      You can't wipe a non-functioning drive without destroying it. Period. This comes from the government standards. In fact, you can't wipe a functioning drive with 100% certainty either.

    6. Re:Read the fucking summary by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      umm since step 6 or so is to boot the drives and run a shred util (and besides you would need to preserve the platters of the drive you "borrowed" the rig from)
      this would preserve the warranty status (handwave any stickers).

      destroy the data save the drive

      BTW to the subject poster mine the thread for ways to make sure this does not happen

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
    7. Re:Read the fucking summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posting as AC does not undo the moderation.

    8. Re:Read the fucking summary by Jon+Luckey · · Score: 1

      Posting as AC does not undo the moderation.

      Actually, checking the Post Anonymously box in the Reply form lets you post as AC, yet will still undo any moderation you've done. So you need to logout to avoid de-moderating

      --
      -- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
  19. Did you talk to tech support? by Bombcar · · Score: 4, Informative

    Maxtor, Western Digital, and Hitachi all replaced drives that we'd sold into sensitive environments with little fuss. Hitachi needed a signed form faxed back, Maxtor & Western Digital needed the top cover of the drive.

  20. Make a building from their dust by g4n0n · · Score: 1

    If you do decide to go down the destructive disposal route you could do what the Aussie department of defence does. 1. Get a big grinding wheel 2. Push harddrives against grinding wheel and collect dust 3. Mix dust with concrete 4. Build a building with said concrete

  21. (no) Disassemble by Midnight+Warrior · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The most painful way, but only sure way to accomplish this is to disassemble the drive and melt the platters. If they are really old drives, then waving the disassembled platters under a wand-based degausser usually works. This stuff is all measured in oersteds. The recording head has to overcome the coercivity of the magnetic media in order to record a reliable signal. Coercivity is the strength of magnetic field (measured in, you guessed it, oersteds) required to alter the alignment of the particles on the platter. The heads can write at this strength and so must you if you wish to properly erase the data. That's why the big bulk erasers cost so much. The big one, the TD-1 can do up to about 8000 oersteds, which will do anything up to, but not including the perpendicular recording stuff in the 500+GB drives.

    If you're a cheap skate, you and a T-8 wrench are going to be friends (get a bit for about every 20 drives cause they wear out fast if you're in a hurry) and pull the drives completely apart, down to getting the platters off the spindle motor. Some drives take a T-10 or T-6. Then send the platters to be burned. If you don't courier them to the incinerator, then at least play 52 card pickup with them and make it difficult for any but the most determined.

  22. Degausing Table. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    When I wored at a knife factory we had a degausing table.
    It was THE COOLEST THING. You would place anything with iron and/or magnets on it, turn it on (don't wear a watch) and all magnetism is gone with in about 2 feet.

  23. Introduction to slashdot groupthink... by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Highly recognizable keyword(s) + question mark = highly qualified answers from first posters who never made it past the first sentence.

  24. What? by remembertomorrow · · Score: 1

    What kind of BOFH are you?

    Asking for recommendations for a BULK ERASER? Absurd!

    This should have been covered in Lusers 101!

    --
    Registered Linux user #421033
  25. Re:If you've got your heart set against the physic by Ajehals · · Score: 1

    Wow.

  26. It's because they don't know the answer by Travoltus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    to the pertinent question.

    There is probably no such thing as a cheap and effective bulk eraser. We have an agreement with Maxtor (now Seagate) that allows us to send in the chassis for a replacement, minus the platters. The replacement contract is expensive, though, but we need it since we have a LOT of banking data.

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
  27. Call the manufacturer, by loraksus · · Score: 1, Redundant

    And explain your concerns. Some manufacturers have a policy where you only return part of a drive (usually the cover) if you don't want your sensitive data to be transported.

    Once you get the replacement drives, take them to the range and fill them with bullet holes. A 2 3/4" 12 gauge slug should take out a quarter of the drive at a time. Or fill with 9mm holes - when hit, the platter around the entry hole gets pulled out.
    A .22 from a rifle will work as well, but you'll need to put a dozen rounds through it.
    If you hit the drive on the edge dead center with an 8mm, the drive should be able to stop the bullet, which transfers a lot of energy to the case and sends the drive flying 50+ feet down range.

    Tons of fun. Much faster and easier than sledge hammers.

    --
    1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    1. Re:Call the manufacturer, by loraksus · · Score: 1

      or rather take the *dead* drives to the range ;)

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    2. Re:Call the manufacturer, by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Shooting won't work well. Melting definitely works.

      Use a blowtorch.

      Lava is a good place to dump em, but could be a bit inconvenient.

      --
    3. Re:Call the manufacturer, by 6th+time+lucky · · Score: 1
      Lava is a good place to dump em, but could be a bit inconvenient.

      BOFHs around the world rejoice that they now have a good excuse for travel to Hawaii...
  28. Re:If you've got your heart set against the physic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, drives aren't hermetically sealed, so that might not do as much as you hope.

  29. You Can't Get There From Here by value_added · · Score: 1

    Well, the statement "it was not possible to erase the data on them" directly contradicts the possibility of an answer the question of how to "non-destructively (physically) destroy data on a hard disk without access to a bulk eraser", unless of course, your current limitations include the magical exception of having access to some really fun electronics equipment.

    Then again, I'm still wondering WTF the term "bulk eraser" is supposed to mean.

    A useful starting point would be reading Secure Deletion of Data from Magnetic and Solid-State Memory. A quick Google search also came up with this tidbit concerning NTFS file systems.

    1. Re:You Can't Get There From Here by Tanmi-Daiow · · Score: 1
      --
      "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." - C.S. Lewis
  30. You are out of luck by gweihir · · Score: 1

    First, I don't think that bulk-erasing counts as non-destructive today. Not all drives can do servo writing without additional equipment.

    Second, I don't think you can get bulk erasers that work for modern harddrives. The magnetic fiel strenght may just be too large.

    Advice: Do physical destruction and live with the financial loss. Acting first and thinking later has a price. Please pay it.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:You are out of luck by rlanctot · · Score: 1

      I wonder if a field like that found in an MRI machine would do the trick if you exposed the platters...

    2. Re:You are out of luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe standard bulk erasers are just the wrong tools for the job. Just give your HD the full battery of medical examinations!

      It's pretty hard to imagine any data on your hard drive surviving an MRI, although it may damage the drive itself too.

      dom

    3. Re:You are out of luck by MichaelKaiserProScri · · Score: 1

      Since the field in an MRI can pick up one of those big oxygen bottles and fling it across the room, it's probably enough to render the data on the platter unreadable.

    4. Re:You are out of luck by Detritus · · Score: 1
      First, I don't think that bulk-erasing counts as non-destructive today. Not all drives can do servo writing without additional equipment.

      I'm not aware of any modern hard drive that will survive erasure of the embedded servo data.

      Second, I don't think you can get bulk erasers that work for modern harddrives. The magnetic fiel strenght may just be too large.

      You can, they just wont be cheap or small. See the NSA Degausser Evaluated Products List (PDF).

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    5. Re:You are out of luck by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 1

      However getting a hospital to let you stick several hard drives into their MRI and then take it offline for the eight or more hours needed to let the magnetic fields fade away so you can pull your hard drives out of the MRI could be tricky. And there's always the chance that the MRI will pull the screws out of their threads and damage the drive beyond warranty expectations as well.

      --
      Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
    6. Re:You are out of luck by HyperVerbal · · Score: 1

      "Advice: Do physical destruction and live with the financial loss" I agree

      --
      Stan M. ~~~Verbal~~~
    7. Re:You are out of luck by RaNdOm+OuTpUt · · Score: 0

      See the NSA Degausser Evaluated Products List
      See WHOSE evaluated products list?!?!?!

      --
      13. Any legal action is absolutly excluded. (Pi World Ranking List rules)
    8. Re:You are out of luck by Cecil · · Score: 1

      Oh, and don't forget the chance that the hard drives end up damaging the MRI too. MRIs are designed to image, not to fling ferrous things around the room.

      MRIs are not cheap. They are in fact so expensive, that it's not even cheap to get time to use one.

  31. Throw away by Spazmania · · Score: 1

    1. If the drive is no longer recognized by the controller then the circuitry on the board has been damaged. Replace the board from an identical drive and you may be able to access it again.

    2. If your data is so sensitive that you can't risk sending it back then that risk is far more than the cost of the drive. Physically destroy it and buy some other brand to replace it.

    3. Its doubtful that degaussers (as suggested elsewhere in the responses) would work. The platters are encases in relatively think metal which will block the field and if you've ever opened a dead drive then you know that the platters already resist the relatively powerful magenet used to control the drive heads.

    4. Do your drives have enough airflow past them to keep them cool? 90% of cases from name-brand manufacturers do not. Dell, for example, is one of the worst offendors. If the drives are hot to the touch just after you power down the machine then the replacement drive is going to burn out too.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    1. Re:Throw away by whit3 · · Score: 1

      >1. If the drive is no longer recognized by the controller then the circuitry on the board has been damaged. Replace the board from an identical drive ...

      It may be that a board swap from a similar drive will restore the disk to usability (enough
      to use Norton Wipe Disk or other security-style erase program). Then you
      put the dead board back on the drive and get your warranty replacement.

      I've done it.

      But there's a good possibility that the problem is noisy read/write (either the heads
      or the amplifiers), and then it won't pass its little power-on-self-test. I've seen a lot
      of dead drives that seemed to spin, but couldn't control speed or find tracks, both of
      which are functions mediated by reading the magnetizations on the drive,
      and they always went into NOT READY state. Detailed disk status could
      read NO DISK, DISK NOT READY, or OFFLINE.

      Lotsa disks with good motors and write heads don't let you try to erase, no matter
      what circuit board swaps you have available.

    2. Re:Throw away by Spazmania · · Score: 1

      it won't pass its little power-on-self-test.

      He's talking about a server drive so I assume he means SCSI. Most of the failed scsi drives I've worked with where the board itself was still good report themselves on the scsi chain with a size of 0. If that is his situation, then you're right: he won't be able to zero-write it.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  32. The only solution.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only solution is Kompressor Krushing your disks.

  33. Erasing Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am working for a company with a similar problem. All our really high security clients request to have the data destroyed with no chance of recovery (incineration). for the clients who wish to recover the drives and reuse or sell them our warehouse uses some apps that write random data over the disks about 30 or so times to make sure that the data is fully erased. Can't think of the software they use (Im an onsite tech and they only use the software in the disposal warehouse) but a quick google search would come up with something.

    The secure delete is the only non-destructive method I have heard of but I think that some feel that the data is not totally gone (just very very very hard to recover).

  34. Re:If you've got your heart set against the physic by alienw · · Score: 2, Informative

    They are not hermetically sealed, but they are sealed against dust, so yeah, opening it will fuck it up pretty fast. But it will run for 20-30 minutes before it craps out.

  35. planning by n9hmg · · Score: 1

    If your vendor is reputable, your data will be destroyed from the disks you send back... either wholesale drive destruction, platter destruction, or platter degaussing. I don't know what happens with other vendors besides IBM, Sun and HP, and hope to never have to find out.

    1. Re:planning by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1
      If your vendor is reputable, your data will be destroyed from the disks you send back...


      Quick question - how does the vendor reliably receive the hard drives? Here's a list of possibilities (which may or may not be implemented):

      - UPS, Fedex, DHL or other freight companies
      - Postal mail (regular service)
      - Postal mail, registered.
      - Hand delivery by customer or personal pickup by vendor.

      In the first two options, there are chances of freight issues where the packages get lost or stolen. In the third option, the package is tagged as requiring special attention, and thus may convince some people that there may be valuable data on the drives heading to Maxtor or the likes. This is an issue common to all companies, no matter how much of a good reputation they may have.

      The fourth option is generally a bit expensive, and usually defeats the purpose of returning the product for warrenty.

      Seriously, if you are worried about the vendor not erasing data for you, you're better off just slagging the drive and forgetting about the warrenty. It's much easier than trying to find a similar circuit board and swapping it with the dead board (which still isn't guarenteed to work).
    2. Re:planning by n9hmg · · Score: 1

      For when your data is so incriminating that you can't risk its recovery out of your control, some vendors offer a "keep the drive" policy... at least that's what Dell called it when they were pitching to us last week.

  36. MRI (Medical) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next time you go to the doctor, ask for an MRI, bill it to insurance, and take the drive in with you. :-) Profit!

  37. Die abschließende Lösung, zum der Antrie by flyneye · · Score: 0

    Actually Martha Stewart had a household hint for wiping drives,say with sensitive stock info,for instance.
              1.dismantle drives,remove and seperate disks.
              2.place disks on no slip padding and use a finishing sander with a variety of metalgrade sandpapers to wipe the data gently from the disks.
              3.Sip sherry till youre silly and do speedballs off the butlers apparatus.

    --
    *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
  38. another solution by belmolis · · Score: 1

    If you're a big enough customer, or the vendor is understanding, perhaps you can arrange for them to inspect the drives under your supervision and confirm that they are no good. Then take them, accompanied by the vendor's representative if they want to be sure you destroy them, and drop them into the vat at your local steel mill, or whatever less dramatic method of physical destruction works for you.

    1. Re:another solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, except you know what? It's cheaper to just buy a new drive than going through all that.

  39. SCSI controller or on-board electronics problem? by AJWM · · Score: 2, Informative

    the drives were no longer recognized by the SCSI controller,

    A problem with the SCSI controller, or with the drive's on-board electronics?

    If the former, just replace the controller. Check this by moving the drives to a box with a working controller.

    If the problem is the on-board drive electronics, then using a working drive of the exact same make and model, carefully undo the 3 or 4 screws holding the circuit board to the drive and swap the board from the good drive with the board from the bad drive. If this was the problem you should now be able to access the data on the old drive.

    I've done this with a Seagate Barracuda that had its electronics fried because of a catastrophic power supply failure (detonated one of the chips and vaporized a couple of circuit traces). Swapping the board from an identical drive (I had a bunch around) let me recover the data. Not knowing the condition of any circuitry within the drive itself, I retired the drive after copying off the data. I would have erased it too but I was planning on disassembling it anyway.

    (NB - even the same make an model number doesn't guarantee interchangable parts -- I had a similar problem with a Western Digital 80GB drive that I didn't happen to have a duplicate of, although that model was still on the market. Alas there's another 4-character code after the model number (ie, the "real" model number, except you need to see the faceplate to find it out) and in the year or so since buying the first one, there were enough minor changes that the circuit boards weren't interchangeable.)

    --
    -- Alastair
  40. there's lots of ways... by Desolator144 · · Score: 1

    Wrap 200 feet of wire around them one at a time and connect it to a car battery for a couple seconds. Or just buy some super powered, non-electric magnets like those natural earth magnet thingies from mythbusters. Eh, a stack of walmart ones would probably do it if you stuck them all over drive. I bet if you just plain touched two live wires to the drives, they'd never spin again. Speaking of that, just open them and take the read/write head out. You can also bring them all to the local doctor and blast them with an X-ray machine, I heard that works. If you dipped them in warm lemon juice and they weren't air tight (don't think they are) they'd oxidize all the metals on the inside and make it unreadable but I think they might suspect that's what broke them. Oh and also, MRI scans will probably work too if the X-ray machine is busy. Your local custruction company or junk yard should have one of those magnetic lifter cranes that lifts scrap metal and they might let you stick the drives on there. Hehehe they're using one on a show on TV right now...anyway, one of them should work, have fun.

    --
    now stop reading and go play Dance Dance Revolution!
  41. Re:If you've got your heart set against the physic by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1
    I guess your only option is to open up the new drives, swap the platters, and erase the data that way. Then swap the platters again if you wish so that they're (technically) new again.
    Won't work. At least, not in a drive with more than one platter. Not reliably, anyway. If the platters are not aligned with each other in the exact same position they were in the original drive, it probably won't be able to read the firmware from the drive's track zero, so it won't identify itself to the BIOS properly, or at all.

    Besides....this'll void the warranty on the new drives, also, so you'll be potentially doubling the wasted expenditure of if you'd just destroyed the original failed drives in the first place.
    --
    "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
  42. Value of Data by camperdave · · Score: 1

    Oh come on now. How much does a SCSI drive cost? $200.00? $500.00? $75.00? If your data is so sensitive that you're worried about it being reconstructed by the RMA people, then just destroy the drive and kiss the warranty replacement goodbye. Seventy five dollars is not that much of a cost to bear to ensure that your data is safe.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  43. Whole disk encryption by 42forty-two42 · · Score: 1

    This won't help so much this time, but if the disks were encrypted with a strong password - you only have to enter it when the system is booted, and for a server this shouldn't be too often - then you could send back the disc without the manufacturer being able to read the data.

  44. Impossible by flyingfsck · · Score: 0

    Unfortunately, it is not possible to bulk erase modern hard disk platters. You would need a degauser that is so powerful, that it will physically destroy the platters anyway - bend them - and you will end up with one heck of a electricity bill. Therefore, you can just as well do away with the magnetics and destroy them physically with a big hammer.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  45. Re:Read the fucking poster ID by IANAAC · · Score: 1
    And because you posted in this article, all your moderation is erased like their harddrives will.

    Yes, of course.

    Does nobody pay attention to ANYTHING anymore?

  46. Wipe the drives and restore them to service by littlewink · · Score: 1
    No need to physically destroy the drives; wipe them instead. There are utilities in Windows (e.g., BCWipe, Eraser, WipeDisk, DBAN) and Unix/Linux (dd, DBAN, EBAN ) to do that.

    Paranoid nutballs claim that data can somehow be miraculously recovered after multiple overwrites by random data, but even Jesus, the CIA, NSA and George Bush together couldn't do that.

  47. AR-15 by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    One magazine load (10 rounds) about $2. One destroyed disk drive, priceless.

    Fun too. They bounce around pretty nicely.

    Of course, if you want to send it for warranty exchange, the manufacturer probably wouldn't appreciate yoru marksmanship. But if the alternative is to keep them forever so no one else can try to recover the data, I'd say go for the AR-15.

    Or M-1 Garand. Or any other reasonable facsimile.

    1. Re:AR-15 by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      That might not be the best tool for the job. Supporting it for multiple shots is going to be difficult, and when you hit it, it's just going to fall over. You might consider one of these which would complement the hard drive's convenient size for launching out of a sporting clay thrower.

      Anybody know the appropriate sized shot for a hard drive?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  48. just buy a large by log0n · · Score: 1

    50-100oz magnet and sit it on top of the hard disk. Like the kind you find on the back of PA woofers. It's worked for me :)

  49. Re:If you've got your heart set against the physic by merlin_jim · · Score: 1

    On the other hand, I knew an old hardware hacker running a small computer shop in rural NC... customers would bring in failed drives, if he could determine the failure was on the controller, he would find a spare drive with the same model number and swap out the controllers - revived the drive with data intact.

    Not sure if it's possible / easy to do that with these particular drives, but it's worth looking into...

    --
    I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
  50. Well, low level format software? by BeeBeard · · Score: 1

    There might be a better way of doing this, but the *old* way was to just use low level format software. The typical procedure is you

    1. go to the hard drive manufacturer's website
    2. download their "utilities" package
    3. prepare a DOS-bootable floppy with the utilities on it
    4. invoke the low-level format software (IMPORTANT: You want a LOW LEVEL format. Just typing "format" or something in DOS will not do the trick.)

    This will work 100%. What it does is overwrite every byte on every sector to a blank ("00" I believe...). There's no file system footprint, no echo or memory of what was once on the drive. There is nothing to recover, because *everything* has been overwritten with a null value.

    The downside? It takes a long time, especially if you're drive is well over the 100 gig variety. But it will get the job done. Cheers!

    1. Re:Well, low level format software? by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 1

      That will not work. The only thing to do is destroy the platters. The residual magnatism will permit anyone with a sensitive detector to read the disk. You need to destroy the platters to make the disk unreadable.

      --
      Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
    2. Re:Well, low level format software? by titzandkunt · · Score: 1


      "...That will not work. The only thing to do is destroy the platters. The residual magnatism will permit anyone with a sensitive detector to read the disk. You need to destroy the platters to make the disk unreadable...."

      Yes it will (work). This kind of tinfoil-hattism is a hangover from the days of MFM & RLL, when the tracks were sufficiently widely spaced that the overspill between tracks could be read with sufficiently sensitive equipment. Not any more, not in the era of 200GB+ in a 3.5" form factor.

      Any talk of using an SEM to look at the state of the platter surface is similarly misguided wrt commercially sensitive data. This is a technique of government agencies, used to develop intelligence; it is ineffective at recovering data.

      Calm down and just run Dan's boot 'n' nuke...

      --
      Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable...
    3. Re:Well, low level format software? by jayrtfm · · Score: 1

      If you CAN'T ACCESS the drive, just how is your answer in the least bit helpfull?

    4. Re:Well, low level format software? by cr0sh · · Score: 1
      Actually, I think it would be possible to recover data off of even a recent model hard-drive if you know what you are doing and are willing to spend the money for some equipment and time. If the data is really worth something, it just might be worth the expense, because you can sell the info you gather on the black market for much, much more.

      Basically, rather than using expensive electronics and such to gather the data, you use the drive itself. Your first task is to attempt to identify and source the various chips (chipset) used on the IDE interface board. Then, you need to somehow get copies of the spec sheets for these devices. This is probably the most difficult part, because such devices may actually be custom made (or programmed, as in the case of PGA or DSP) especially for the drive manufacturer - and thus their IP. You would need to get really creative here - you might even have to reverse-engineer the blackbox that is the chipset. Not impossible, but very difficult. Once you have identified how the chipset works (whether via RE or spec sheets), you then need to identify all the other parts on the PCB, and their interconnections - you need to RE the controller board. If you are lucky, it is based on a reference design - but don't count on getting lucky. The best way to accomplish this task is to take a high-contrast, very high resolution scan of the front and back of the PCB in question. Then you want to load these into your favorite photo editing software, and using the fill tool in zoom mode, fill a trace on the scanned image of the PCB. If you have done your contrast right, the trace should fill all or most of the way to the end node. In this way you can reconstruct the schematic. Slow and tedious, but it does work. You might also set up multiple layers in the photo editor, one layer with the front, and another layer with the back, flipped and rotated so they match real world conditions (you need quality aligned scans here). Other layers could be used to paint (using a mask or something) the traces - so some of your layers are "trace layer", used to hold the traces only, and color coded, perhaps.

      Once you have everything mapped out, and you know how things are connected and used, you can then develop your interface with it. You need to interface to the heads, so you can both position them and get signals from them. You also want control of the motor which rotates the spindles. All of this should be mapped from above, and with the knowledge of the chipset and such, you should be able to figure out a method to do both of the following: 1) Microstepping the head position arm(s), and 2) Varying the speed of the spindle. Both of these are doable, and it may even be likely that the chipset allows for such control, but to the final IDE interface it isn't available. It doesn't matter though - what you are going to want to do is build your own interface, but in this case the chipset is going to be simulated, by a fast PC. Your interface card could easily be interfaced on the PC side via USB 2.0. If you went with an embedded solution instead of a full PC (using a custom programmed microcontroller), it is even conceivable that standard serial comms would work. At any rate, though, you are going to be writing some software.

      Basically, your software is going to read the sector and alignment information from the drive's sensors, and then via software it is going to allow expert control over where the head is positioned (either via the alignment information, or +/- offsets to that information, or an arbitrary amount). The software should also have the ability to command the drive to speed up or slow down spindle rotation. You are going to use all of this information to allow you to microstep into the "valleys" between the tracks, and read whatever data you find. You could scan across the band of the track area and valleys, multiple times, and build up a magnetic region average map - a three dimensional array of data which can then be sliced and analysed by the software to determine exac

      --
      Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  51. Re:If you've got your heart set against the physic by Scoth · · Score: 1

    I bought a lot of 10 identical 40 gig laptop drives from an eBay seller for some teeny pittance (I want to say something like $10 shipped) that were explicitly sold as non-working. Of the bunch, most of them didn't do a thing. However, there were 2 that had some broken pins, and a few that read fine but had massive data errors. I had no trouble swapping the controller boards from the ones with broken pins from one of the data error ones and ended up with 2 good 40 gig drives for $10. Wasn't too shabby I thought.

  52. Go to the local park by La+Camiseta · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Go to the local park one day when they're trimming the trees. Just take all of the HDDs and throw them into the big chipper/shreader thing that they have there. Voila, no more HDDs to worry about.

  53. What am I missing? by TheQuantumShift · · Score: 1
    "Recently I had to replace some hard disk drives from the same batch which had failed, while still under warranty. Because the drives were no longer recognized by the SCSI controller, it was not possible to erase the data on them. In view of the sensitivity of the data contained upon them, and the chance this was still forensically recoverable, our company decided to buy new drives rather than risk the disclosure of their contents by returning then to the supplier. How would you non-destructively (physically) destroy data on a hard disk without access to a bulk eraser? Obviously in this case it's a bit late to be thinking of using encryption."

    So these were working drives, got pulled due to a recall, but somehow can't be accessed? And if you aren't RMAing, why not physically destroy? Or at least get a car battery electromagnet, a couple temps (you just flush 'em when you're done) and a weekend? Or would that still be "forensically recoverable"? If so, then just bury them. (In whichever largest body of water is closest...)

    --

    Shift happens. Fire it up.
  54. A microwave? by Klaidas · · Score: 1

    We've seen lots of stuff put it there, how about you try it with a hard drive? :-D

    1. Re:A microwave? by Mostly+a+lurker · · Score: 1

      Well, I have been known to eat some pretty indigestible meals in my time, but I think I would draw the line here. Otoh, I'll concede data recovery would be an unusual challenge after you had done this.

  55. Re:If you've got your heart set against the physic by Vo0k · · Score: 1
    to seek the soft flesh of babes and women.


    This sounds so redundant...
    --
    Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
  56. Re:SCSI controller or on-board electronics problem by HyperVerbal · · Score: 1

    I've also done this a long time ago, it works!!! then you can run a DOD erase x4!!! Part of my job a CDC was to do this....

    --
    Stan M. ~~~Verbal~~~
  57. Re:Die abschließende Lösung, zum der Ant by HyperVerbal · · Score: 1

    Dude... classic!!!

    --
    Stan M. ~~~Verbal~~~
  58. Open them up and flip the platters over by Joce640k · · Score: 1
    If you open up the drives and flip the platters the low level MFM encoding used to store the data magnetically will be reversed. Anybody who tries to read the drive will get garbage (or maybe a satanic message!).


    Should only take you about ten minutes per drive to do this. All you need is one of those special screwdrivers.


    PS: Do it in a recently vacuumed room - if dust/hairs get in the drive it can be detrimental.

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Open them up and flip the platters over by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1
      PS: Do it in a recently vacuumed room - if dust/hairs get in the drive it can be detrimental.

      Heh. Classic understatement.

  59. Do it rigt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A good source for magnetometers and demagnetizers that really work.
    I first ran across them when doing audo work with large tape recorders
    and needed to demagnetize the hardened steel tape guides and capstans.
    The inexpensive units sold in the stereo and electronics stores were not
    strong enough to do the job. R B Annis magnetometers let me measure
    the amount of megnetization and their Han-D-Mag demagnetizer let
    me demagnetize the hardened steel components easialy. The Hand-D-
    Mag will also easily demagnetize 1/2 inch rolls of tape or greater with
    the back side of the probe!

    http://www.rbannis.com/

  60. Physical destruction is unavoidable. by OmniGeek · · Score: 1

    Sad to say, but if you can't run the drive to erase the data, you MUST destroy the platters. Even degaussing them is not reliable -- how will you KNOW the degauss worked? Unless you want to keep a spare drive of each model around with an open top so you can swap in and reformat platters from dead drives (way too much trouble), you're stuck with physical destruction.

    So, in keeping the military standards for such things, I suggest you find a way to render the platters unspinnable without creating too mush hazardous waste. Thermite or other pyrotechnics are regrettably messy and pose a fire hazard in use, aside from the regulatory headaches. Acids create too much dangerous waste. Having the platters -- or just the whole drive -- crushed or cut up with a hydraulic shear or press of some sort is likely the best candidate.

    Punching the spindles right out of the drives with 10 tons of force from a hydraulic press at a local garage or machine shop will definitely render the platters warped and unreadable, and is likely the best and simplest way to do the deed. Punch a second big hole through one side of the platters, and the Devil himself would be hard put to recover anything from the drives.

    --

    "My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
  61. If you're in the medical field... by Sentry21 · · Score: 1

    You may actually be able to do the job with common office or household equipment. If you work at a hospital or clinic, for example, try running them through the MRI. Not only will the data not be forensically recoverable, but the disk should be sufficiently bent so as to discourage any attempt regardless. Also works well with floppy disks, VHS tapes, and metalheads.

  62. Re:If you've got your heart set against the physic by Nerd4News · · Score: 1
    Never tried it myself, though everyone on the intrawebs largely agrees that there are legions of the mighty dust army waiting breathlessly for you to crack open the drive so that they can invade it.

    Technically of course you are correct, but I've tried it.

    Years ago I had a Seagate ST-whatever SCSI drive, one of the ones with the stiction problem. I backed it up as soon as I started having problems and wanted to see how long it would last. I took it out of the case and ran it sitting on the desk. It worked fine until I turned it off but had to whack it on the side with a screwdriver handle to get it going again.

    Fast forward a few months and even that didn't work so I popped the cover off and got it started with my finger on the side of the platter. That worked until I got tired of the whole thing so I put a tiny drop of WD-40 on the spindle. That's when I started getting read errors. My conclusion? WD-40 erases hard drives. ;>)

    BTW, others have said it but don't toss those old drives without snarfing the magnets out of them. They make the worlds greatest fridge magnets or are handy for sicking stuff to the side of your tool box. 1001 uses.
  63. physical is always best! by hAckz0r · · Score: 1
    I just finished a project where the disk drives needed to be erased/destroyed at the conclusion of each software inspection that I performed. I had to do considerable research in this area because there was a zero tolerance for any data recovery. Electronic erasure is inadequate, period. A smart person with $3k in his/her pocket and access to the junk yard of choice could put together the equipment necessary to recover your data as long as the disk platters are not "physically" destroyed. Degaussing is not much better at protecting your data from the wrong people than the software disk wipe, though it might satisfy your management since they don't usually understand the physics involved.


    Your bottom line best bet is on physical destruction. In my case I had to do this "in the field" which severely limits your methodologies that you can deploy. Just try bringing caustic acids on an airplane these days! Or shipping huge degaussing equipment. Besides that, in my case it had to be done on site, and then you have to contend with their security personnel as well. The answer to my problem was a $20 battery powered Dremel tool and an abrasive rubberized pad. No problems with 110,120,220,240, 50 or 60 Hz power issues. You can pick one of these up cheaply sold as a "pumpkin carver" tool in Oct if you don't mind a bright orange casing.


    For the actual destruction it takes about five minutes to disassemble a disk drive, and about 15 minutes per platter to make it unrecoverable. Contrast this to wiping or the expense of degaussing. Given that the larger the capacity disk the longer the wipe time, the cheap Dremel is a lot faster! The expense of the degausing equipment is a large investment in contrast with the $20 Dremel, and there is no contest even when factoring in the pay scale of the person performing the destruction. The only issue I had on site was that the newer laptops use glass platters which take too long to "polish" the magnetic surface and were prone to break in the process, but they can be reduced to sand in a matter of seconds with it folded in a common everyday news paper and even your cheapest hammer.


    Bottom line, your inexpensive path is sometimes still the best!

  64. Degausser = Electro-magnet by Cassini2 · · Score: 1

    My understanding is only AC electromagnets are suitable for degaussing. It would take a large AC magnet to be sure of degaussing a hard drive completely. I don't think the small ones intended for degaussing CRT TV's would be effective. You would need one intended for the application.

    Degaussing works by exposing the magnetic target to very strong fields. This makes everything follow the field of the electromagnet. Slowly the electromagnetic field intensity is reduced until you are left with essentially random fields. These random fields cancel each other out leaving no net magnetic moment. As gauss = magnetic field, no net magnetic field = degauss. Hence the term "Degauss".

    1. Re:Degausser = Electro-magnet by Calinous · · Score: 1

      Also, the metalic cover of the hard drive protects the actual platters against external magnetic field (at least some). You would need a strong magnetic field indeed to erase everything without opening the drive (and failing the warranty terms). If your data is so valuable, just buy new drives.

    2. Re:Degausser = Electro-magnet by AnotherBrian · · Score: 1

      Keys to the MRI scanner at your locak hospital?

    3. Re:Degausser = Electro-magnet by Calinous · · Score: 1

      But be sure (if the hard drive has iron/steel parts) to anchor it really well - you don't want it to go ballistic against the magnets

  65. Sandblasters worked for us by billstewart · · Score: 1
    Many years ago, when I was working as a tool of the military-industrial complex, we had a computer lab that was used for classified applications, and when we had dead disk drives (RM05 removable packs) or later when we decommissioned the lab, we had to wipe the disks.
    • In theory we could have used NSA-approved software, but I don't think there was any for that machine and we'd have had to prove that it could handle things like mapped-out bad sectors and such.
    • We could have used an NSA-approved Big Magnet, but not near *my* lab, thank you :-)
    • Destruction with acid would have been an option, but we didn't choose it.
    • The machine shop in the basement had a sandblaster. Just the trick!
      • So that's what we wrote in our plans, and when my successor at the job retired the Vax, she got to disassemble the disk packs and take them to the machine shop folks who sandblasted them.

        Remember how sysadmins used to have head-crash-scratched disk platters as wall decoration? She had one that was shiny clean metal, with not a trace of magnetic media left :-)

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  66. Outsource by binaryspiral · · Score: 1

    The company I work for contracted with our offsite media vault vendor. They incinerated a few thousand backup tapes we didn't need anymore. Bonded and insured... and they let a rep from our company witness it.

  67. Use a hillside by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 1

    I had my disk drive laid against a hillside across from my front door, 75% slope or so ... it sometimes slid around, sometimes jumped a few feet in the air, and being only 100 feet away, it was easy to go pick it up if it moved too far.

  68. Re:SCSI controller or on-board electronics problem by Technician · · Score: 1

    A problem with the SCSI controller, or with the drive's on-board electronics?

    If the former, just replace the controller. Check this by moving the drives to a box with a working controller.



    Don't overlook the possibility an employee may have lifted the terminator. I've seen where this is overlooked when drives stop working in a SCSI environment.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  69. Recover the data, or cook the drive by jpostel · · Score: 1

    Data recovery companies can fix the logic boards too. I would imagine that the poster would be concerned about data recovery companies seeing the data also though.

    Another idea is to cook the drives. Heating a drive in an oven should give the data a good scramble. I'm guessing it is probably better than a degausser considering some of the comments here.

    --
    Ummm, Jon, aren't you supposed to be dead...? - Otter(3800)
    1. Re:Recover the data, or cook the drive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, I don't think so... you would need to apply almost enough heat to melt it.... and that will definitely ruin the look of the drive. And if the drives weren't on a RAID-5 or something array (where the data is not avaible on a whole on one disk), you could still recover some pieces of the data.

      I would use the hammer (just for fun) and a degausser, and maybe melt the plates (liquid)..... but that could be considered as "destructive"......

      So, as for non-destructive.... I'm not quite sure that even being able to switch the controller board of the drive, and erasing the data could render it completely unrecoverable...... I would erase the disk on several phases: all to "0x00", all to "0xFF", all to 0xAA, all to 0x55, and then write pseudo-random patterns, at least three different sets.

      Then, I would be happy..... but, off course, you would need the hard drive manufacturer authorization to do such procedure, or you could void your warranty.

      Hope this helps, and sorry,I'm too sleepy to register right now, maybe I'll do it tomorrow.

      c-ya!

      Soulhunter.

  70. Re:SCSI controller or on-board electronics problem by AJWM · · Score: 1

    Yeah. I almost mentioned that (and just checking termination in general) but figured "nah, that's so obvious he has to have checked it first". But you have a point, some things are so obvious that they are overlooked.

    ("Did you check that it was plugged in?" "Don't be silly, of course I ch... Oh, oops.")

    --
    -- Alastair
  71. Three Options by pete-classic · · Score: 1

    If the data is life-or-death stuff incineration is the only way to go. In the army we used white phosphorus grenades for expedient destruction. You could probably get a civilian pyro expert to do it with thermite.

    If the sensitivity has a fixed (and reasonably short) duration secure storage may be your best bet. Could be as simple as, say, putting it in a cabinet in the server room for a year, by which time the patent application will be filed and you can just tip the drive.

    The most likely scenario is that you need to dispose of them diligently, and the material is sensitive but not Earth shattering. In this case by FAR the easiest means is the good 'ol drill press. Knocking a couple of holes through the logic board and platters will make the drive resistant to most "conventional" methods of recovery. This method is NOT proof against the NSA's best efforts or whatever, but it is unlikely that your information really requires more sophisticated protection than this.

    Good luck.

    -Peter

  72. park them in the corner of your office by MooseTick · · Score: 2, Informative

    I recently got rid of some very OLD equipment. I had some old hard drive that predated me by 15 years. They were huge and I had no idea what was on them. They weren't IDE or MFM. They came from the day that hard drives required an external controller card. Since I needed to wipe anything that left the building I didn't have many options. I did what my predecessor and his predecessor had done.

    I left the drives sitting in a cabinet where they had sat for the last 2+ decades.

    Since you don't need to send the drives back to the manufacturter and you just need to be sure no one else can get the data, why don't you just sit on the drives? If they sit there for 10-20 years then even if the data were to get out in the wild it would likely be 100% useless anyway.